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[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, Jennifer, I have a question. And let me say first that I love musical theater audiences. We can't do this without them. And also, you can't convince me that somebody didn't go up to an usher during intermission on Broadway and ask, when does Celine Dion come out and sing the song? Right? Like that had to have happened.

[0:24] Jennifer Piech: I remember, we would have these kids groups come. And there were talkbacks after and the kids were like, well, there was no Kate and what's it like, they were so confused as to our storylines. And we were like, Yep, this story is that we're representing the real people. And we're trying to tell the stories in the different classes. And yeah, there was a lot of confusion. Where's that song? Where are those two characters? Why weren't you ever doing this? You know?

[0:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes, of course. The big pose at the front of the boat.

[0:58] Jennifer Piech: Exactly.

[1:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons, you can call me Jeff. Today we are discussing the musical Titanic or Titanic or Titanic. However, Mr. Yes, and wants us to sing it. We're covering Titanic because it was a listener request from Allison. Thank you so much for writing us, Allison. In her request, she said the following about doing the show. Quote, I have such fond memories, as weird as that sounds, when we did it with a community theater in Cincinnati. The music is stunning and putting yourself in those people's shoes is fascinating. I know a community theater production of Titanic sounds just awful, but I swear we were all qualified.

We just also had day jobs. So we were doing theater for fun. Okay, first of all, anybody out there who might be listening to the podcast for the first time, you do not need to apologize for community theater here on a musical theater podcast. I can personally think of at least two occasions when I saw community theater that was as good if not better than professional productions. And to be honest, even if your community theater production was terrible, I also believe that it can be bad and very important at the same time. Still, Allison, sounds like you guys had a great experience. And I'm super happy that you requested this wonderful show. And here to talk with me about the great experience that is this epic musical is the lady made herself. You know her as the original Kate, Kate McGowan. Everyone, please welcome Jennifer Piech.

[2:56] Jennifer Piech: Hello! And thanks, Allison. That's funny. I have two children. Our oldest is Allison.

[3:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No way!

[3:06] Jennifer Piech: I was like, was that my daughter? Did she request that? I don't think so.

[3:10] Tim Cynova: Okay. So where are you born and raised? Because I hear you say daughter.

[3:15] Jennifer Piech: Oh, gosh, you're hearing my Jersey twang. Yes.

[3:18] Tim Cynova: Which I love!

[3:19] Jennifer Piech: Jersey girl, exit four. Born and raised in South Jersey. Great to grow up. And I spent some formative years actually in Atlanta, Georgia, because my father got transferred. He was an IBMer, a life IBMer. And so I spent like middle school years and the beginning of high school in Atlanta. And then we moved right back to the same town. And it's called Cinnamon's in New Jersey. It never makes the map. It's a very small town. That's an Indian name. And it's near Cherry Hill. Most people know where Cherry Hill is. So our big city was Philadelphia. We would go and see shows there and occasionally go to New York, but mostly Philly.

[3:58] Tim Cynova: How awesome. Well, I'm so grateful that you came to spend some time with me this afternoon to talk about this show. I saw you in the original Broadway cast. It was my very first trip to New York. It was the week after the Tony Awards. All of this excitement and energy. I'm from a very small town myself in northern Utah. And so I was super hyped for that season because I was a big Rosie O'Donnell fan. I had watched the Tony Awards, which had been expanded to this whole four-hour thing between PBS and CBS. So like, I was in and I just had such a wonderful time. And there were so many stage pictures from your production that have stayed with me ever since. It was a really powerful experience.

[4:45] Jennifer Piech: Wow, that's nice. All the way from Utah. I love it.

[4:49] Tim Cynova: From Utah with my grandparents. They took me for my 16th birthday. Isn't that sweet? I was a very lucky boy. Now, can you take us through how this show became a part of your life?

[5:03] Jennifer Piech: So I, you know, I moved to New York after graduating from college. I spent one year in Philadelphia working as an intern at the Walnut Street Theater, which was also a wonderful, informative experience. And then I lived on someone's sofa and spent the year, you know, like you do. You move to New York with your clothes and your filing cabinet of music and whatever else you need. You kind of have to live there and audition there to get the work and the work initially, at least for me and many other people my age at the time, is elsewhere. You move to New York to leave New York.

[5:35] Tim Cynova: Yeah, to be a New York actor, but and because so many auditions are held there, but they're held for all over. So regionally and touring productions, big and small, kind of initiate there. And so I was just auditioning, auditioning, auditioning, playing wonderful parts in the regions and, you know, just hoping to be seen for the bigger projects. And I did take a class with Barry Moss. The casting office was Julie Hughes and Barry Moss at the time. And I remember taking a class with Barry and it was one of those like multiple week classes where you really got to do many things. So it wasn't just like we're and we're paying for an audition and then we go away. We got to know him. He got to know us.

We got to do all like a full range of things. And shortly thereafter, the Titanic breakdowns were coming out and those auditions were being held. And I got called in and I truly believe it was because he consistently saw that, you know, I was professional in that I would just get up and do the work and show up and do that. Yeah, because I didn't know anybody on that level yet. And our director, Richard Jones, the great Richard Jones, British, I really felt like I got a fair shot because he really didn't know anybody. If he had known all of the players in New York at that time, I might not have gotten seen for this role because I didn't already have credits at that level. You know what I mean?

But I did feel when I read the material that, oh, I know her. I know this. I feel like, you know, I have something to bring to this. I just need to relax and try to just show who I am, what I, you know, what I bring to this material. And initially, it's funny, I was telling you, Jeff, that I did a podcast recently with some other Titanic alum and they were, the guy was asking us about the initial auditions. And I forgot then, but I remembered subsequently like, oh, that's right. I forgot about that part. I wish I had remembered to say that. But in our initial auditions for a musical, we were asked to do two contrasting monologues, one current and one like classical. And it just so happened that I had been just working in classes because I auditioned for plays, I auditioned for musicals, I had them ready.

My monologues happened to be about one of them, the current, the modern day one happened to be from a Beth Henley play, happened to be a pregnant girl, like knowing nothing about Titanic, you know, and this and the storyline of Kate McGowan. It was just sort of kismet. But when Richard was in the room and Barry brought us in the first time, we were asked to do these monologues for this British director. And oh, how British, how wonderful. You get to go in, you get to talk, you get to do some pieces. They get to know you a little bit in a way that I just didn't in other regular auditions. It was really special even from then. And then eventually, you know, singing.

[8:54] Tim Cynova: That is fascinating. OK, so real quick, as you're telling me this, I'm suddenly remembering my New York showcase, graduating from college. And we had we were like doing masterclasses conjoined with another university. And they had brought somebody in to teach the acting master class. And it was your castmate, Judy Blazer.

[9:16] Jennifer Piech: Oh, Judy.

[9:16] Tim Cynova: Who is just a brilliant actor, right? And performer and overall great gal. And she told us the story that the director had asked you guys to do two monologues. And I had completely forgotten about that because that was the first and last time that I was ever told to prepare monologues as a musical theater actor. So, oh, my gosh, I can't even believe that.

[9:39] Jennifer Piech: Because they were all at a different level. They had already done like their big breakout roles on Broadway and they were playing principal characters, but not me. So I didn't know.

[9:50] Tim Cynova: That's interesting. Judy had to do that, too, huh?

[9:55] Jennifer Piech: Yes. OK, that's good to know, because she had had a lot of experience prior to that.

[10:00] Tim Cynova: Absolutely. Absolutely. And Richard Jones, who you mentioned as the director, was mainly an opera guy, right?

[10:05] Jennifer Piech: Exactly. He was used to the pageantry, which is we had a lot of pageantry in our show. But also, does he make opera singers do monologues?

[10:12] Tim Cynova: That's a good question. I would like to know that answer.

[10:16] Jennifer Piech: Probably not. He probably just has a discussion with them. I imagine the British, from what I understand, the British experience of auditioning is a little bit different than ours. I mean, it's a more cordial experience where you're chatting and getting to know.

[10:30] Tim Cynova: It isn't quite so dramatic?

[10:32] Jennifer Piech: No, it's not like, get your 16 bars, get in, get out. No, it's a little more cordial.

[10:37] Tim Cynova: I was told recently that the amount of cortisol that goes through our bodies in the audition process is like the same of being chased by a lion, like scientifically proven. And when I heard that, I did what you did, which was just laugh hysterically. I'm like, are you serious? I'm putting myself through that much stress every time I try to get a job. What on earth am I doing?

[11:01] Jennifer Piech: I believe it. It's stressful. It's very stressful. But you have to reframe it in your head, I think.

[11:10] Tim Cynova: You have to.

[11:12] Jennifer Piech: Absolutely. Well, like you were saying, relaxing.

[11:18] Tim Cynova: No excitement and not nerves. You have to tell your mind, I'm excited.

[11:22] Jennifer Piech: I love lions.

[11:30] Tim Cynova: Okay, so you go through a gajillion auditions. You get the role. You're among, quite possibly, the most celebrated cast of actors to ever work as an ensemble on Broadway. David Garrison, Victoria Clark, you had Michael Cerveris. Brian D'Arcy James.

[11:43] Jennifer Piech: Brian D'Arcy James. Hello. Incredible, incredible. So what was the feeling amongst the cast when you finally started to get to work on this? Did you even know what you were in for?

[11:54] Jennifer Piech: I mean, it was so magical. And I was so grateful every second of every day. And I almost couldn't believe, you know, I couldn't believe my luck. And I couldn't really believe that it was going to happen until we started in the rehearsal rooms. And there we were, this cast of so many wonderful, weird, interesting, you know, like you said, actors. It was such an interesting looking and feeling group of humans. And the whole experience was so bonding because we had quite a difficult journey through the preview period where we were, you know, the press was saying it's, you know, you get these negative things about the ship won't sink and this is going wrong and that's going wrong and changes every day because there were elements that just weren't working, certainly technical elements that weren't working, but also in the storytelling. We feel bonded in a way. And I, you know, I feel so grateful to have been part of that company. It was.

[12:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Extraordinary, truly extraordinary. Well, now we're going to—on the podcast, we're going to be covering a show that had a lot of rumors going on around it and, you know, the theater journalism world. But unfortunately, that show didn't succeed, and yet you guys were able to push through that negativity and really come into your own. How do you do that? I'm just curious.

[13:29] Jennifer Piech: Well, I think that ultimately they were able to make the changes that needed to be made to give the audience the emotional payoff that they needed. If you talk to anybody else about the Titanic endings that we had prior to the choral ending that we had where the dead kind of meet the living, that really didn't get put in till I think it was like the day before press started coming. But we knew that, oh my god, it was crazy. We knew there needed to be a cathartic thing, and like what we had was poor old Michael Cerveris in a jumpsuit walking out as Robert Ballett of the Oceanic Institute and talking about the exploration of the Titanic pieces on the bottom of the ocean, like the remains. Yeah, you'd see this little thing come down on a string as if it was the submarine or whatever that thing is called looking at the wreckage, and we were all backstage like, this is just so—how can we just feel terrible?

But every night, as I understand it, and I do think maybe because I was so young and green and I don't think that I was privy or really understood what was happening, every night after a preview, the creatives and the producers were apparently going to a hotel room because it was neutral territory and just like hammering out stuff. I think sometimes they were knocked down drag-out fights of people fighting for what they felt was the right moment or the right storytelling or, you know, let's throw in this song. There were songs that were thrown in, and Judy Blazer—actually, Judy and Don, their parts changed tremendously. My part didn't really change all that much, but you know, we'd come in that next morning, we'd get new pages, we'd sometimes get a new song or a new chunk that was gonna go in that night if we had time to tech it.

Otherwise, we were rehearsing something new during the day we didn't have time to tech it. So then we come in the next day and tech that and put it in that night. So it was, you know, crazy and difficult and challenging and exhilarating, and some, you know, certain little aspects with these changes started to click and work. Okay, we got that part, and then, you know, one by one, like the lifeboats number wasn't there, and then all when we had the lifeboats number, and that completely changed the emotional resonance of that whole thing, was wrenching people apart. But the ending, the ending was the thing that, you know, really tied the show together, and that really didn't go in till so late in the process.

And at that moment, I remember seeing the crew in the backstage just like—they were crying, and we were crying because we felt like we know this. We know this work, like now I think we have a show, you know.

[16:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, that's so powerful. I mean, I'm sure that was stressful, speaking of cortisol, but like what a thrilling thing to witness that feeling of, "We got it."

[16:40] Jennifer Piech: Yeah, we know where we were, and we hadn't got it yet. And even though, like, we felt like, "Okay, now we have this storytelling," even so, it may not be a critical success, we didn't know, you know, and even if it is a little success, it may not run for all of those reasons. But you brought up Rosie O'Donnell earlier, and I'm telling you, she responded to the show, and I feel like she promoted the show in a way that made it have a life because our nut—our weekly nut was so expensive to run that show because of the huge cast and the huge crew and everything associated with it. Because of that national exposure she gave us, and multiple times she did this, I feel like she single-handedly helped us survive those really slow parts of the business, you know? There are like traditionally—the fall is a very slow part where you're like, "Oh, please, let's hang on until we get to the end of the year."

[17:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[17:43] Jennifer Piech: So you get all the holiday seasons when everybody is buying tickets and they're in New York, and then again it gets slow again in the winter where you're like, "Oh, I hope we survive these months because the spring is generally pretty good with the tourists."

[17:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: My gosh, who—I didn't—I always love when conversations surprise me, and I knew that this was going to be an awesome one, but I didn't realize how much of the creative process we would get an inside look into by delving into this musical. So thank you for taking us through that. That's really—

[18:13] Jennifer Piech: And it also was just—I mean, Richard Jones is a real visionary, and he had a way that he wanted to tell the story, and the actors—we loved him, and everybody just—whatever he asked of us, we really wanted to make that work too because he's a visionary, and we wanted to be a part of that vision, and we wanted to help it. But some things just simply didn't work for musical reasons or just the structure of the scene work itself or whatever it was. But everybody tried, you know? Like nobody was too proud to try that thing that you might look foolish doing. We were like, "Yeah, okay, do it. Let's try it."

[19:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, that's inspiring. Now, let's go back to the genesis of the musical. This is the first Maury Yeston musical that we're covering on the podcast. So real quick, let's do a deep dive. He was born in New Jersey as well, Jennifer Piech. His father was born in England, and Mr. Yeston attended Yale where he studied music theory. He is quoted as saying, "I am as much a lyricist as a composer, and musical theater is the only genre I know in which the lyrics are as important as the music." So after graduating, he then went to Cambridge in the UK to keep studying classically and really wanted to bring this dramatic musical symphony sweep into the Broadway musical theater, and to that I say, congratulations, Maury.

I think you did it. All of his shows have this incredibly dramatic symphonic sound to them, beginning in the very early '80s when Nine came out and was a huge smash. And then in the mid-'80s, he wrote his version of the Phantom story called Phantom. Andrew Lloyd Webber's came out after and kind of made his disappear, but his Phantom is magnificent too.

[20:16] Jennifer Piech: I don't—gorgeous that show.

[20:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I hear it's so beautiful.

[20:28] Jennifer Piech: It just—I mean, he can't write—he can't not write a stunning song. Let's be honest, right?

[20:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[20:31] Jennifer Piech: That is really—and in so many different styles too.

[20:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, and we use that for Titanic because it's such big ensemble singing in the key of H, you know? It's like ridiculous high. Hi. We're all like—

[20:43] Jennifer Piech: So I'm an outdo in this show, but in any other show that would be a soprano one.

[20:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're like, "Lower the larynx, lower the—"

[20:55] Jennifer Piech: Love it. I love it.

[20:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Then he gets hired to help out the musical version of a famous film called Grand Hotel that Tommy Tune, who once again had done Nine, was also directing and choreographing. Tommy Tune asked him to come on and also Peter Stone to help the book. Now, if listeners remember from our Will Rogers Follies episode, Peter Stone and Tommy Tune had worked together on that show. So he was kind of the secret ingredient for Peter Stone and Maury to meet and start working together. They immediately hit it off, and while they're working on Grand Hotel adding some stuff to help it become the success that it ultimately was, they were on a break, and Maury said he had this crazy dream to write a musical about the Titanic.

And Peter Stone was like, "I have a crazy dream to write a musical about the Titanic." And so right then and there, they decided that it was going to happen. Now, this is no great surprise to anybody who knows about Peter Stone because he really likes creating musicals based on real events, obviously the Will Rogers Follies, but also—and maybe even more infamously—1776. That show was a huge hit and, like Titanic, featured an ending that everyone already knew was going to happen, right? We all know that the Declaration of Independence got signed. Yeah, that was—that's not a surprise. But when we watched 1776, we're still on the edge of our seats to see if it would happen. So it was never a question to him, the fact that everyone knew the ship was going to sink, as to whether or not it would be a compelling musical.

In fact, Peter Stone says it's one of those stories that if it hadn't actually happened, nobody would have believed it. Now, why do you think that this story still connects with so many people? Why are we so fascinated by this ultimately really tragic event in our world's history?

[22:45] Jennifer Piech: I think it's about man creating something beyond anything that he's created before and testing its limits in a way, you know? I mean, this was supposed to be the most advanced machinery, etc., of its day, and it was put to the test, and it failed. I mean, in a way, sending people to the moon is that—that's a dramatic story too, like how that created—and, you know, the Industrial Revolution had really kind of convinced everybody that technology was the answer, that machines could make everyone's life better forever. And the Titanic really was this huge moment where we realized, "Oh, machines aren't always going to answer our questions." And so the Titanic story not only becomes a survival story for the people who were able to survive or who didn't, but also for I think all of us that we got to remember what's important, even if it's just our dreams, you know? What ultimately makes us human is the most important thing.

[24:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's interesting too because that tragedy—I mean, I guess all tragedies is kind of like the great leveler too. There are people in first class and people in third class experiencing the same death, and you know what I mean? Like—

[24:21] Jennifer Piech: Exactly. It doesn't matter. It came to everybody the same.

[24:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Unfortunately, it also showed the prejudice among those different classes of passengers, right? Because 155 women and children from second and third class died as compared with two from first class. So death came to everybody equally. Who was chosen to survive was ultimately a prejudice, and I think that was a big wake-up call for everyone as well. And just the hubris of not having enough lifeboats to support people should there be an accident, you know?

[25:04] Jennifer Piech: Right, right. Yeah, amen. This great boat that we're talking about, which I'm sure everyone knows, set sail in 1912. It was 882 feet long, which is a football field. It weighed 46,000 tons, so it's a big piece of metal that was somehow floating and moving at a very high speed. And when Peter Stone started researching all of this stuff, and he references quite a few books—Walter Lord's A Night to Remember and The Night Lives On, which are both filled with details about the voyage of the Titanic—he basically makes a promise to himself that he is only going to include real-life people.

[25:50] Jennifer Piech: And events as much as best as he can in this story. So that means your character, Kate McGowan, who was in the third class and an immigrant going to America, was a real person that he saw in The Ledger. Is that right? Yes, you can see all of our names were in The Ledger. I mean, nothing was really known about the steerage passengers, for sure.

[26:14] Jeff Parsons: Oh, of course. Of course.

[26:16] Jennifer Piech: So, you know, artistic license with a compelling story of an immigrant story. But we always all felt a responsibility to honor, like we didn't take it lightly, that these were real people. This is their real names. I am representing them, even though it might not be exactly who they were or certainly not what their lives were, really. But they did travel on this boat and they did pass away. And we felt a responsibility to honor that and we're proud to carry their names, you know, through the show.

[26:50] Jennifer Piech: So in the third class with you were European immigrants such as the Irish, the Turkish, Italians and Scandinavians. They were assigned to the Titanic by lottery. So they literally won the lottery to get on the Titanic, which just sounds like the worst lottery.

[27:10] Jeff Parsons: Worst luck ever.

[27:12] Jennifer Piech: Right. Good heavens. So that's third class. You got the second class, which honestly was probably made up a lot of socially ambitious types of people, people who maybe aren't, you know, super wealthy, but want to look like they're wealthy.

[27:29] Jeff Parsons: That was Alice B.

[27:31] Jennifer Piech: Exactly.

[27:33] Jennifer Piech: She was a climber. She wanted to be a part of that world.

[27:37] Jennifer Piech: Yeah. So the second class in the story is probably best represented by Alice Bean, who was played by Victoria Clark and her husband. And she's just so excited to get her picture taken next to all of the millionaires and multimillionaires in first class, which then brings us, of course, to first class. Now, pretty much every American multimillionaire was booked on the Titanic. J.P. Morgan and the Vanderbilts didn't attend, but both had booked tickets. Everybody else was on the ship. And so a lot of the American millionaires died on the Titanic, which is pretty insane to think about. The Strausses, of course, Guggenheims, right?

[28:22] Jeff Parsons: Widener, Guggenheim.

[28:24] Jennifer Piech: And then we have the officers and crew. So there were more than 900 officers and crew members, which compared to the 1,400 passengers, that means for every 1.5 passengers, there was like an employee of the ship, which is a huge, huge crew. I mean, just so many people packed onto this thing. And they had decided not to include as many lifeboats on the ship to ensure that the first class got bigger staterooms. So huge error there in terms of wanting, you know, status more than safety. And ultimately, I mean, was the reason that everybody died. Even if the ship had sunk and they had enough lifeboats, people would have survived.

[29:14] Jeff Parsons: I mean, so many things. It was that they took a more northern route to try to save time, because they also wanted to set the record.

[29:20] Jennifer Piech: Right, and push it faster and faster. So it was just like this perfect storm of every horrible thing to go wrong. With all of this incredible information and research being done, Yeston and Stone get a researcher to organize all of the facts and compile them into four loose-leaf volumes, cross-indexed by date, by hour, and on the fatal night, minute by minute, by character name, logistic data, and sociological import. What?

[29:55] Jeff Parsons: I didn't know that. Wow.

[29:57] Jennifer Piech: The amount of preparation that they did before even like truly trying to put this piece together is just insane. And I think really bodes well for what you guys ultimately came up with, which is something that feels very reverent and historically respectful.

[30:17] Jennifer Piech: And also, I always feel like it's so hopeful, like everybody was so hopeful, because it was this achievement.

[30:27] Jeff Parsons: Absolutely. When Mari Yeston is asked about whether he writes the music or lyrics first, he says, neither. It's actually premise that comes first. So, I must get on that ship, which is a phrase that pretty much everybody sings in that opening number that goes on for how long? I mean, that whole opening montage.

[30:48] Jennifer Piech: 15 minutes. It's such a beautifully built masterpiece. I mean, just that opening number alone. He says that that phrase, I must get on that ship, was just born out of the need of each of these characters. For whatever their reason might be, they needed to be on that ship, whether it was to show how much money they had or to live the dream that one day they may have as much money as they want, or the dream to just have a better life than they used to have. That is that hope that you're talking about.

[31:17] Jennifer Piech: And he says it's the job of the composer-lyricist to find the positive inside the negative, to find hope, even in the face of disaster. I think that's very much an Oscar Hammerstein thing. I think it's a musical theater thing in general, because we're always singing from someplace within, and there always has to be a kernel of hope there. I mean, there just has to be or else we would all lay down and die.

[31:44] Jeff Parsons: So, while I think sometimes we complain that musical theater can be, you know, overtly hopeful or cheerful, I just think that speaks to the human spirit, you know?

[31:55] Jennifer Piech: I agree.

[31:56] Jennifer Piech: I'm feeling so alive. This is great. Now, in general, Peter Stone would write the scenes and then Mari would write underscoring. Did you ever witness any of that?

[32:07] Jennifer Piech: Actually, the first day of rehearsal, I don't know if Judy told you this or whatever, but Maury Yeston sat down at that piano and played the entire thing for us, doing everybody's part. And we were all like, oh my gosh. So, it just came out of him, the music, the singing, all of it. And it was really cool. I know some people have certain little recordings of some of that, which I would love to hear again, because there we sat in 890 Studios, and he sat at the Baby Grand right in the middle, and we all kind of were just enthralled, trying to understand from him and his enthusiasm what this was supposed to be. He just acted it all out for us, and he played it, and you know, it was amazing.

[32:56] Jeff Parsons: So, once you guys started that first day to when you opened on Broadway, how much time went by? Do you know?

[33:03] Jennifer Piech: Gosh, I don't really know. I want to say we were in the studio for something crazy, like 12 weeks, and eight to 12 weeks, and then tech, I mean tech, the tech went on and on. I can't really remember. It was too long ago.

[33:20] Jeff Parsons: No, that's fine. And heaven knows that sometimes when you're out of it, you're like, let's stay out of it. But can we go to the tech a little bit? Because like you said, the show was so big that there was no way you were going to have an out-of-town tryout, which the purpose of an out-of-town tryout is so that you can work things out with an audience that is maybe a little more forgiving than New York audiences. No offense to New Yorkers, we love you. You're amazing.

[33:49] Jennifer Piech: Oh, one other thing that might be an interesting tidbit is that before we could sign our contracts, we had to go to the theater and they built this thing that sat in the lobby that was a structure of what it would be on stage at its highest tilt. So we had to go walk on this tilted structure in the lobby to make sure that we could handle that before we signed our contracts.

[34:18] Jeff Parsons: How big of a tilt was it? Was it pretty extreme?

[34:20] Jennifer Piech: It was pretty. I don't know the degree, but it was significant. Yeah. I mean, you could see you would be sliding down it.

[34:31] Jeff Parsons: Oh my gosh. Crazy. At this point, the show has been written, like the show has been put together and now it's a matter of figuring out what's working, what's not working, especially like we said, with all of these different people, all of these storylines, which ones are breaking through, which ones are kind of becoming more and more irrelevant, horrible to say, but it's still a piece of art and you kind of have to take an objective look at that. So all of these decisions are being made. Here's the problem with tech, with a show this huge, is that so much of the show has been structured around how long it will take for scene changes. So the minute that you make one little cut, you're messing with all of the timing that goes on backstage.

So from what I understand, from what everyone has said, it wasn't so much that you guys were having huge technical issues. It was that as certain things were changing within the show, there was no way to really redo all of the choreography that needed to be done backstage in order for the show to keep moving at the same pace that it had been.

[35:37] Jennifer Piech: Yes, that is definitely true. I mean, the tech of the costume changes alone, because like in my number in Ladies Made, we were all just singing, you know, in first class, and we run off, everybody's, you know, stripping and changing now into third class, and then running back on while something's happening. I think a crew scene was happening in front of us, but we had such a limited time. And then boom, we got to the third class. Yeah, that's a really good point, like, that it wasn't just the tech, but it was the tech too. It was because it was a major hydraulic system, and things would, you know, like there would be like a speck of dust in the hydraulics and that would shut down the show for however long, if they couldn't get it started again, it could just shut down the show. You know, like we could have told the story on a flat surface with nothing like we did in the rehearsal room. But that wasn't part of the show.

[36:38] Jennifer Piech: You also had Titanic was one of the first shows that really played with scale. The first act, which ends with the ship sailing right into the iceberg, was represented by this miniature of the ship going across the stage in a beautiful silhouette. That was always really impressive. And I remember when I saw the audience, you know, applauded or kind of squealed because it was this, you know, really impressive thing. But that wasn't the only time that that was employed originally, right? There were several of those types of moments in the show. And some of those got cut.

[37:11] Jennifer Piech: Yeah. Ship here comes ship on a stick. Oh, no, we you know, they just didn't look nice. So that was the only one that was retained. I believe so. The end of act one and part of the original thing that Richard wanted to show. I mean, the Lunt-Fontaine has not big backstage, but it was supposed to look expansive. You are only ever going to see a small segment of the ship. And that was supposed to imply that it went this way and that way for another 800 feet.

[37:51] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, like miles.

[37:51] Jennifer Piech: And so that's what, you know, he did a lot of like people walking in lines. We'd walk off the stage and your mind would think that that line would go. And meanwhile, it was like the same actor, like running around and coming right back on the stage, you know, interesting, imply the vastness. So on all of the deck scenes, that's what it was. You were always seeing a slice. And the implication was it was this massive ship. And we only saw it at a far, far distance at the end of act one. I can't really remember where ship on a stick was. It was not good. And it looked silly. And people were laughing at it. And that and that got cut. And then it got cut. And then there were like the ship wreckage when the submarine submersible came down. And that also looked too rinky dink after, after seeing this after the majesty.

[38:46] Jennifer Piech: It just took away from it, so that was cut.

[38:49] Jennifer Piech: I find all of that so inspiring because I tend to think that I'm a much better editor than creator.

[38:55] Jennifer Piech: Editing is everything. I mean, you know what I mean? Everything.

[38:59] Jennifer Piech: But like truly there is something so artistically powerful about being able to make decisions when they need to happen and then have those decisions pan out. And this is a great, great example of that. I'd love to take a little bit of time right now and go through some of we won't go through the entire script with this show because it's just too dense to keep track of all of the characters. But there is kind of an arc and some of the numbers that I really want to point out, especially if it means that some of our listeners who haven't listened or explored the show before will be motivated to go and do so.

[39:38] Jeff Parsons: We've talked about this prologue and launching sequence, which is the huge first part where we meet everybody. You guys did a beautiful cast album that I believe won a Grammy Award. Hey, hey. And it tells the story beautifully. I definitely don't need to do it. Do you have any other memories of the sequence? Because you are meeting everyone in their most hopeful moment in the show.

[40:04] Jennifer Piech: Yeah, I mean, it was just such an economic way to set up everybody.

[40:11] Jennifer Piech: Economic is a great way to say it. Introduce everybody. And the way that Mari built the sound from the very singular beginning with in every age, the server started that too, to that wall of sound at the end. I had never heard voices like that. I've done professional gigs, but never like, I mean, there were 40 people singing different things and I had never experienced that kind of, oh, I don't even know how to describe it. It was so magical.

[40:45] Jennifer Piech: You know, I always hate to be the person that's like, they don't build them like they used to. But with this show, I don't ever see a show like this ever happening on Broadway ever again. It's probably way too expensive. But because of it, you hear this sound, this incredible choral sound in Godspeed Titanic, which is the number that ends the whole launching sequence.

[41:10] Jeff Parsons: Full orchestra and a full chorus.

[41:13] Jennifer Piech: The orchestra. We haven't even talked about the orchestra.

[41:16] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. The economics of it. I mean, God bless those Dodgers. I don't know. It was a lot.

[41:24] Jennifer Piech: And it paid off because, you know, spoiler alert, the ship does sink. But you guys sailed on to glory, becoming a hit and winning the Tony Award for Best Musical. Even with all of the rumor mills saying that the show would sink, you guys did not. This year, the Tony Awards was the first time that an award had been given to an orchestrator. And I can think of no better recipient than Mr. Jonathan Tunick, who did the orchestrations.

[41:52] Jennifer Piech: I remember that since Probe, we were in the lobby. First time we heard the orchestrations and just everybody. I mean, you couldn't even sing it. Everybody's crying. It was so beautiful. The strings. Oh, everything. Wow. Wow.

[42:07] Jeff Parsons: OK, yes. So after the launching, we kind of get these different numbers and scenes to introduce some of the more main characters. So the first one we meet is Barrett, who works in the he shovels coal. He keeps the entire thing going. And what's really kind of sad and ironic is that he left his job shoveling coal to then get on a ship and shovel coal. Right. And so he sings this song called Barrett's Song. This is when we all were, I think, first introduced to the golden voiced Brian D.R.C. James. I mean, my gosh. I mean, he's legitimately that's his voice.

[42:48] Jennifer Piech: Every show like solid as a rock, beautiful, focused, beautiful actor, such a presence, relaxed. I mean, what a jerk. That's amazing.

[43:06] Jennifer Piech: In a very interesting counterpoint, we then go from the bottom of the ship to the top of the ship, which is the number. What a remarkable age this is, where all of the first class passengers are commenting on how lucky we are to be alive in the best time of the world with all of the most amazing things. And I did not know you were in this scene as well, even though you were most well known for being a third class passenger.

[43:27] Jeff Parsons: So you were all in this scene as well.

[43:29] Jennifer Piech: All in this scene as well. And we were all dressed up and then we all live in your best first class life. It's another glorious song with just a punishing soprano line. And you all ran off stage to make your quick change. Only then for you guys to run back on as third class passengers, which let's be honest, the third class passengers are who we most identify with. Right. I mean, as a bunch of Americans who are essentially all immigrants, you guys are the ones who get our hearts. And I mean, it makes me like, oh, it makes me teary. Just to even think about this song, because the sound and feeling of this song is exactly how I think we feel about all of our immigrant ancestors.

[44:20] Jennifer Piech: Yes. Agreed. Yeah. I know it's how I feel about it. Beautiful. It's that hope thing. It's that hope for a better everything. And it's such a cute thing. It's also very stereotypical, but like there were three capes, right? There were multiple capes on the ledger. So when Peter Stone thought that he's like, well, of course, they're all named Kate. They're from Ireland. Kate McGowan, your character wanted to be a lady's maid. And I guess what is that even? What set her attention and intention to that particular job?

[44:50] Jennifer Piech: Well, I just I think that was a good, steady position in a fancier household with, you know, I'm sure not incredible pay, but steady, valued pay. And it was a valued and trusted position. If you were a lady's maid, you were her trusted companion and helper and something to aspire to.

[45:37] Jeff Parsons: Absolutely. Other people want to become governesses. But what is so beautiful is that as everyone comes together at the end, they say you all saying, I want to rise above myself. Like, regardless of what the job is, like, it probably doesn't really matter. But can we just please make life a little bit better than we had it before? And that is that hope.

[45:45] Jennifer Piech: Oh, at the end of Lady's Maid, we also find out that your character is preggers. Yep. So that is very interesting and also complicates things a little bit because there's a fella in the third class who you take a liking to and who takes a liking to you.

[45:56] Jennifer Piech: Yeah. That is very buoyant. Yeah. It's a it's a beautiful, beautiful song.

[46:06] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. I love that. I'm like telling you the story, but also using you as though you're the real person. That's hilarious. So it's interesting. And will he be OK with it? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Will she level with him? Right. Is she going to is she going to fess up? We shall see.

[46:24] Jennifer Piech: Now, I get so emotional about that song. But then traditionally, I think people will often say that the most beautiful song in the show is coming up right after this, which is a duet called The Proposal Slash The Night Was Alive.

[46:35] Jeff Parsons: Oh, so you got Brian D.R.C. James, who is trying to send a message to the girl that he wants to marry. And so he goes to the guy who's in charge of like Morse code, right, to send the to send the telegram, who is kind of a nervous fella, probably has a hard time communicating with people, which makes him perfect to be the person to sit behind the little desk and send these telegrams. And as they're connecting these messages to people in different parts of the world, they're realizing how important it is to feel that connection. And so they sing this duet about their own separate experiences. And when it comes together, it's just glorious.

[47:19] Jennifer Piech: Holy cow. That is the best number in the show. I mean, it's so and those two, Marty and Brian, oh, my goodness. We all I mean, we would cry all the time listening to the two of them.

[47:31] Jennifer Piech: And, you know, a revival, not a revival. It was like a revival concert that Don directed with full orchestra. Kevin Stites was conducting. He was our conductor on Broadway. As much of the original company as he could muster and then a choir of kids behind was like, oh, come on. That's so nice.

[47:48] Jennifer Piech: So, so beautiful. In the rehearsal for that concert. Again, we're all in a rehearsal room and we're running. What will it be like? They do that song with just the piano and all of us are like falling. I don't even know how they they could sing it. I mean, Brian can sing through anything. Brian's like the chords of rock. Yeah. But the rest of us, we were just like, oh, it's just the memory of how beautiful and tender that that duet is and their performances.

[48:21] Jeff Parsons: Oh, that's so great. A lot of crying, a lot of crying, a lot of crying.

[48:29] Jennifer Piech: Apparently, I get it. Even talking about this makes me want to cry. And I wasn't even freaking part of the process.

[48:34] Jeff Parsons: So now we go to the first class. There's like this whole sort of a rag dance that comes after a Sunday service. Once again, just really taking the time to show that up until the wreck, people were having the time of their lives.

[48:56] Jennifer Piech: Yes, absolutely. The second class passenger, Alice Bean, who we've mentioned before, has kind of snuck into this party and is living her best life times three. And so after she gets done with that, her husband is berating her and saying like, why isn't the life I've provided for you good enough? And she's like, I don't know, but I just feel like there's something more for me. And this is giving me the opportunity. And she, she sings, I have danced. Now this is one of the songs that was added pretty late in the process, right?

[49:24] Jennifer Piech: Yes. Yeah, that wasn't there at all. And it felt like it needed to be expanded into a musical moment. It's a really it's lovely. Yeah. And gives once again, the right feel to what we need from the second class that's different from either the first or the third. So it balances out all of the storytelling.

[49:47] Jennifer Piech: This shoves us really quickly into leading up to the disaster. We've got a gorgeous song called No Moon, which Fleet sings who's in the in the crow's nest, in the crow's nest looking out for things. By the way, they didn't have the right binoculars or something up there. Is that right?

[50:00] Jennifer Piech: Yes, that's right. Yeah. All of the things that once again, this perfect storm, another one. Yep. So there's no moon, it's very dark. He doesn't have the right binoculars. So he doesn't see the iceberg in time. The first class is having a game of cards.

[50:26] Jeff Parsons: Oh, we didn't talk about Becky Ann Baker, who is in first class. And I mean, what an incredible actress she is. We talked about her on our assassins episode.

[50:31] Jennifer Piech: Oh, yeah, Becky, Becky is amazing. And she we shared a dressing room together. She's a fun gal.

[50:37] Jeff Parsons: Oh, that's awesome.

[50:45] Jennifer Piech: And then at the end of the first act, as everybody's singing their own portion of No Moon, we have the wreckage. Now the second act is I mean, you guessed it really leading us to the gradual sinking and the realization or even the acceptance that it's going to happen. The first class is the last because they were the most egoic about being on the ship in the first place. Everyone's really like, Oh, we'll be on our way. Everything's fine. And then the music all cuts out. And we see this bar cart slowly going all by itself, which means that the ship is starting to, you know, sink on one end. And then we see everybody realize, oh, crap. And at the end of that song, something that the orchestra does so interesting is the dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun as everyone's holding out this.

[51:41] Jennifer Piech: The thing about Titanic is that it really does capture the essence of humanity in a way that is both tragic and beautiful. You see the hopes and dreams of the characters, and then you see how quickly those can be dashed.

[52:11] Jennifer Piech: I think that’s what makes it resonate with audiences even today. It’s not just about the ship sinking; it’s about the lives that were lost and the stories that were cut short.

[52:41] Jennifer Piech: The creative process was intense. We were all so passionate about telling this story, and there were moments of pure exhilaration mixed with stress.

[53:11] Jennifer Piech: I remember the first time we heard the orchestrations. It was like magic. You could feel the energy in the room, and we all knew we were part of something special.

[53:41] Jennifer Piech: But there were also challenges. The subject matter is heavy, and we had to find a way to honor the tragedy while also celebrating the lives of those who were on board.

[54:11] Jennifer Piech: The music plays such a crucial role in conveying that emotional depth. It’s not just about the lyrics; it’s about how the melodies lift the story and the characters.

[54:41] Jennifer Piech: I think one of the most powerful moments in the show is when the characters realize the gravity of their situation. It’s heartbreaking, but it’s also a moment of clarity for them.

[54:51] Jennifer Piech: We wanted to make sure that the audience felt that weight, that they understood the stakes involved.

[55:01] Jennifer Piech: And even though it’s a tragedy, there’s also a sense of hope that runs through the show. It’s about love, sacrifice, and the human spirit.

[55:11] Jennifer Piech: That’s what keeps people coming back to Titanic. It’s a reminder of what we can endure and how we can find light in the darkest of times.

[55:21] Jennifer Piech: I think that’s why it continues to resonate with audiences over a hundred years later. The story is timeless.

[55:31] Jennifer Piech: And as a producer now, I feel a responsibility to keep that spirit alive in every production we do.

[55:41] Jennifer Piech: It’s about honoring the past while also looking towards the future. We want to keep telling these stories in a way that feels relevant and impactful.

[56:01] Jennifer Piech: The creative process is always evolving, and I think that’s what makes it exciting. We’re constantly finding new ways to connect with the material.

[56:11] Jennifer Piech: And I love seeing how different productions interpret the show. Each one brings something unique to the table.

[56:21] Jennifer Piech: It’s a testament to the strength of the material and the talent of the artists involved.

[56:41] Jennifer Piech: I think that’s what makes musical theatre so special. It’s a collaborative art form that brings together so many different voices and perspectives.

[57:01] Jennifer Piech: And with Titanic, we have this incredible opportunity to explore a pivotal moment in history through the lens of musical storytelling.

[57:21] Jennifer Piech: It’s a challenge, but it’s also a privilege to be part of that conversation.

[57:41] Jennifer Piech: I truly believe that the stories we tell can change the world, and that’s what keeps me motivated as a producer.

[58:01] Jennifer Piech: We have to keep pushing boundaries and finding new ways to engage with our audiences.

[58:21] Jennifer Piech: And I think Titanic is a perfect example of that. It’s a story that demands to be told, and we have to keep finding ways to tell it.

[58:41] Jennifer Piech: I’m so grateful to be part of this journey, and I can’t wait to see where it takes us next.

[58:51] Jennifer Piech: It’s all about the humanity of the characters and the connections we make with them.

[59:01] Jennifer Piech: That’s what makes the show so powerful, and I think that’s why it continues to resonate with audiences.

[59:11] Jennifer Piech: We’re all just trying to find our way in the world, and Titanic captures that struggle beautifully.

[59:31] Jennifer Piech: It’s a reminder that we’re all in this together, and that’s something we can all relate to.

[59:51] Jennifer Piech: I hope that audiences leave the theatre feeling inspired and moved by the stories we’ve shared.

[1:00:11] Jennifer Piech: That’s the ultimate goal, to create a space where people can reflect on their own lives and experiences.

[1:00:31] Jennifer Piech: And I think that’s what makes musical theatre such a vital art form. It has the power to connect us all.

[1:00:51] Jennifer Piech: I’m excited to see how Titanic continues to evolve and resonate with new generations of audiences.

[1:01:11] Jennifer Piech: It’s a journey that I’m proud to be a part of, and I can’t wait to see where it goes from here.

[1:01:31] Jennifer Piech: Thank you for having me on the podcast to share this story. It’s been a pleasure.

[1:01:41] Jennifer Piech: I hope everyone gets a chance to experience the magic of Titanic for themselves.

[1:01:51] Jennifer Piech: It’s a story that deserves to be told, and I’m honored to be part of it.

[1:02:11] Jennifer Piech: Thank you!

[1:02:31] Jennifer Piech: I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this incredible musical.

[1:02:51] Jennifer Piech: It’s truly a labor of love, and I can’t wait to see what the future holds.

[1:03:11] Jennifer Piech: Let’s keep the conversation going and continue to celebrate the power of musical theatre.

[1:03:31] Jennifer Piech: Thank you again for having me!

[1:03:51] Jennifer Piech: I look forward to connecting with everyone on social media and sharing more about our journey with Titanic.

[1:04:11] Jennifer Piech: Until next time!