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[0:00] Joe Iconis: Hi, I'm Joe Iconis.

[0:02] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: And I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper, and you are listening to ALBUM PODCAST on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:15] Joe Iconis: Today, we're going to be talking about Last on Land, which is a song that I wrote for Blood Song of Love and is the penultimate song on ALBUM. It features a massive choir arrangement by Joel Wagner. And on this episode, we'll talk about the musical stories behind Last on Land, as well as the origin of it back when Blood Song of Love was first coming together. It's a very fun episode to hear all about the evolution of Last on Land from 2009, actually, up until 2023, all of the iterations and all of the various forms it's taken.

[0:56] Joe Iconis: No, I'd never last on land. I would never last on land. Oh, heave, ho! No one else would understand. I would never last on land.

[1:10] Joe Iconis: Well, we're almost at the end of this massive album, and thus this massive album podcast, and we've arrived at Last on Land.

[1:24] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Which makes sense because Last on Land is, in addition to being the second to last song on the album, often near the end of an Iconis and Family concert.

[1:29] Joe Iconis: It is, yeah.

[1:30] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, it's kind of like the group 11 O'Clock Number.

[1:33] Joe Iconis: One of them.

[1:34] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: One of them, yeah.

[1:36] Joe Iconis: Yeah, Last on Land, much like Find the Bastard, was written for Blood Song of Love. This is one of your only songs where I truly remember where I was when I heard it for the first time, because you wrote it before Blood Song of Love, you know, went into production. It was that year prior, and we were doing an Iconis and Family gig that you put this song in, and I remember my little sister, who was then in high school, was visiting, and I was like, oh my god, Joe just sent a new Joe Iconis song via email. We have to listen to it. We sat on my old couch, and we listened to Last on Land for the first time, and I was like, oh my god, I cannot imagine what this is going to sound like with everyone singing it, and you know, it's been so many years of it being a tradition since then.

[2:32] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah, I remember sending it to you, too, in 2009. Very special song. Also like a song that means a lot to a lot of people, both, you know, I hear a lot from people who have had a history with the family since Blood Song of Love, and you know, know about this song in context, and it really means a lot to them, and then also people who really respond to this song in concert. I would say it's like a favorite of a lot of audience members.

[2:53] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, for sure, and it's, you know, I feel like it's one of those songs that it's so tied, the lyric is so tied to the context of it in the show, but I think it also works equally as well being completely removed from the context of the show. You know, it's like, I feel like when people hear it in concert and don't even know that it came from Blood Song of Love, it still completely works as its own, you know, five and a half minute experience, but you know, for anyone who's curious, who doesn't know Blood Song, the context of it is that, you know, so Blood Song is about the musician who is the fella who sings Find the Bastard, and the whole show, he's on this quest to get to Santa Violeta, who has been captured by the Cocodrillo, and it's, you know, the whole, even though it's like his mission is to be reunited with her, there's so much of it that's about, you know, him following his path as a musician, as an artist, and staying true to himself, and so it's all kind of like a big metaphor for that, for an artist who's trying to like remain true to himself in a world that makes it really hard to do that, and so in the second act, in the second act, a musician and his sidekick Banana are asleep in the desert, and a thief comes in the night and steals the musician's guitar, and with his guitar gone, he feels at a loss, and it's sort of like the ultimate, he's been kicked when he's down, he's been on this big journey, and now his music has literally been stolen from him, and he just wanders the desert, and he wanders, and he wanders, and he stumbles upon this strange man who's building a boat in the middle of the desert, and Last on Land is the song that the strange man sings.

[5:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: And it had such a beautiful physical production, like for those that didn't get to see it at Ars Nova, like what do you remember about when the song was happening in its premiere production?

[5:12] Joe Iconis: Yeah, you know the, so like Blood Song at Ars Nova, it was, you know, it was really scrappy, but it was like a show that, you know, there was lots of, there was lots of wood, and like decaying neon signs, and it was, it was a show that was just like filthy, you know, there was like dirt, and blood, and as I think we've talked about on the podcast, Bloody Marys being poured all over the stage, it was just liquid, there's just so much like stuff, it was, it looked like a, it was, it had like a very sort of like junk shop of the damned aesthetic to it. But Last on Land was this sort of moment of purity and beauty in the midst of all that, and the cast, who, they weren't called the ensemble, they were called the outlaws in the show, the outlaws came together during the staging, and basically constructed this sort of abstracted vision of a ship in the middle of the desert.

And this movement by Jen Warner and John Simpkins that was really lyrical, and was really different than anything else in the show, and so it sort of felt like this like, this crazy moment where all of a sudden the show, you know, paused, and sort of turned into something that was a little more poetic, and a little more pure. And there were these like huge, like china silk sails that that came down, and ropes, and all of this sort of like, you know, water, sea imagery, which felt really, you know, shocking and different from anything else in the show. And I remember it so vividly, and whenever I hear the song, I do kind of think of that, that staging.

[6:53] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I think of Jeremy with ropes, yeah, like the ropes around his arm.

[7:00] Joe Iconis: Well, it was totally scrappy in all the ways you said. When I first asked this question, I was like picturing like a giant boat, like in my brain, and I think maybe it's because I always sat near the front of the audience. It just felt like a very large, like they're actually building like, you know, the sails of a boat. It felt very big in that moment.

[7:16] Joe Iconis: Yeah, well also it's like, because that theater is so small, the, you know, the scenic swipe of having like a huge sort of silk that went up to the grid, it felt, you know, humongous. It would be like the equivalent of like, you know, if, you know, you're in like the Majestic, and there's like a 40-foot, you know, yeah, yeah, exactly, or a helicopter at the Broadway. But it's like, it felt, it felt that huge because the space was so small, and it felt, it felt really all-encompassing in a way that I think is appropriate for the song.

[8:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, it's also a very beautiful moment on the album because Last on Land is immediately preceded by Find the Bastard, which is, you know, Eric and the whole, you know, gang. It's like a large amount of people on the album who participated in Find the Bastard, and then Last on Land is actually the original cast of Blood Song of Love singing on the album, just like, you know, the original four black suits were on one of the tracks. So, what was it like gathering the six original cast members for Last on Land to sing it on the album?

[8:26] Joe Iconis: It was really, really amazing. You know, we, the Blood Song of Love cast members, we've certainly had occasion to be with each other since Blood Song of Love closed, but it had been, it had been a really long time since we all, since all of us were in the same room. You know, it's like we'd been with each other in different iterations, in different groups, but I think that was the, that was the first time in a very long time that all six of them, plus me, were there together. And certainly, it was, you know, the first time since 2010 that all six of them were singing that song from the show. And, you know, and just like the fact that it was, it was us being together for the first time in so long, and it was us being together for the first time since COVID had started, it was, it was a really, really moving, a really moving experience.

And I am so grateful for the, if the album, if the album did nothing else for me, then make this recording of Last on Land happen with those six people, it would have been a success for me. You know, like it was, it was so, it was just incredible.

[9:39] Joe Iconis: And then, you know, and like, obviously, like Tepper, you know, you were such a huge part of Bloodsong of Love. And I feel like that's where like the two of us really like first, you know, collaborated in a, in a meaningful way to have you there. And it was, it was, it was really, it was really, really something truly special.

[10:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It was very special. Um, would you like to put to rest? Or would you like to not put to rest the fan question about the lyric, which is not just a fan question. It's a family question too, I think. Um, don't.

[10:12] Joe Iconis: If the lore is worth the cost at hand, if the word is lore or lure, because that is my favorite question that fans ask. I didn't even realize that that was like a full fan question. Oh, I feel like the lyrics have been printed somewhere now, so maybe it's not anymore, but I just remember people asking, "Does it mean this or that?" and I don't know, it was like one of those fun, like, you know, it could mean two slightly different things, just like Bloodsong. Yeah, I do think that it means two slightly different things, so I'm not gonna make a judgment call. And now I'm like, now I'm worried about which one is printed in the lyric book, but it is one of those things that I like the idea of it being heard two ways because it works both ways.

[11:04] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It means all things.

[11:10] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I look at it, so I know which one is in the written version right now. Okay, whatever it is, that's whatever's in the written version is what I intended. I will stand behind whatever is in the written version, but it's so funny with some of these things that have existed for so long where it's like I'm intentionally choosing words that sound like other words because then I sort of forget the initial impulse behind them. But you know, there's another one in this song that always makes me laugh, you know, because there's all this like sea maritime imagery. The line, "We provide the soul," in my mind, I always think of like soul as like fish, which is really not an intentional, you know, it's like I don't want people to be thinking of fish, but I do always think like, "Oh yeah, maybe I should have chosen a different word."

[12:05] Joe Iconis: That you've asked for this to happen, people at 54 Below in the audience are gonna hold up their fish on that line. It'll become like a thing. I know that's like, that feels like that has the potential to one day be the ultimate Rocky Horror moment where people throw fish on that line. I will say that related to the lore, lore, I'm not even saying it clearly enough, an O or a U, I did hear a couple years ago, years after Bloodsong of Love, but years before this album, two Bloodsong original cast members, and I won't say who, each thought it was a different one, which was what stuck this in my head. And I didn't participate in the conversation, so I really love the mystery. I fully support the mystery of anything like that, you know, it's the lore of it. Also, so much of this song has like different meanings intentionally, and that one might have been slightly less intentional, but it's just become part of it.

[13:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Is there anything you want to say about this track musically, like in terms of the instrumentation or the band or, you know, just realizing it for an album in this way?

[13:08] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I mean, you know, when we talked about putting this on the album, I got really excited about having it be performed with a choir. That was the, you know, I feel like this was probably the song when I was like, "Oh, this is where I want a choir on." And then Haddonfield kind of like came out of that, but I hadn't felt came next. But you know, I knew I wanted like a proper choir arrangement. And like Haddonfield, I turned to Joel Waggoner to do the arrangement. And honestly, when he first, you know, sent me something and I saw what he did, I was like, "I don't know if this is correct for the song." You know, I've always, I'm usually with things like vocal arrangements, I try to do the simplest thing possible.

I tend to not like musical theater songs where I feel like they're overly vocally arranged in a way that feels like it gets in the way of the meaning of the song or it gets in the way of the melody or the lyrics. But when I heard his arrangement, like from start to finish, I just immediately felt like, "Oh, this makes the song sound more like itself." Like I was like, "He heard something in the song that he connected with." And so his arrangement, I love so deeply, and I just think it's completely in tune with the underlying themes and passion of the song itself. And now whenever I hear the song, whenever I play the song, I hear that arrangement in it, and so I really love that.

[15:08] Joe Iconis: And then the instrumental track underneath, it's, you know, Matt Hinckley plays on it, who is the original MD of Bloodsong of Love. And you know, it's funny, it's like that song sounds a lot bigger than it actually is. Like the actual instrumentation is pretty basic. Like it's pretty much like just sort of like the core rock band underneath, and then it's the choir, it's the voices that add the hugeness to it. It certainly is like one of the biggest, if not the biggest songs on the album, and I love that it's so big because of voices, because of like people, you know, lending their voice to the track. It's not instruments or computers or anything like that. And you know, I'm really proud of the choir, the way the choir sounds, because it, you know, I mean, they sound great, but I think they also sound human.

You know, it's not like, it's not like auto-tuned or pitch-corrected within an inch of its life in a way that many current things on albums, whether they're theater albums or certainly pop albums, they're heavily auto-tuned, they're heavily pitch-corrected. It's just the sound of like contemporary music. I just happen to hate it, and I think it will age so poorly, but that's my own thing. But I really am proud that the people singing sound like actual people.

[16:36] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: And it's like, it doesn't, it's not that it doesn't sound like you're in a theater hearing it live, but it's like getting there. You know, it feels like you're in a room with actual people and they're singing it.

[16:46] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah. Anything else about "Last on Land"?

[16:54] Joe Iconis: I remember knowing that I wanted to write this song for this moment in the show, and at the time I was living in Herald Square on 34th Street in my apartment. That's the apartment that when we think of Jeff, we think of that apartment. And I remember wandering around on the east side in the 30s and listening to this band I love called The Hold Steady, and they have an album called Boys and Girls in America. And the album could not sound more different from "Last on Land," but for some reason, I was just listening to that album over and over again and walking around and thinking about the moment I came up with this idea. And I've listened to that album so many times since trying to like listen for like a kernel or something, because there are, I have, you know, there are like songs that I've written that have sort of been born out of like a kernel or an idea or like a one-second moment from another song.

And usually it's like something that only I would know that like triggered something in my brain. And anytime I listen to that The Hold Steady album, I try to like, I think about walking around in the east 30s and like I was there. What was it that made me, you know, think of like, "Oh, he will never last on land." And I still, I have not been able to pinpoint it, but I really think it's more about a feeling than a specific idea, you know? And I think the song sounds like that. The song sounds like a feeling, even though it's really, you know, it's like it's written like a Shel Silverstein poem. It's like really sort of exact, and it's, you know, the way the rhymes are, it's really tidy as a song, but I think it evokes going and certainly evokes the feeling that I was experiencing at that time when I was, you know, for the first time working with this family of artists.

And it was the first time it really felt like a real thing, and it felt like so much was on the horizon, and there was so much at stake and so much to lose, and I think the song captures that, and I'm proud of that.

[19:11] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, I love that. I never knew a lot of that, so yeah, wow.

[19:23] Joe Iconis: All right, "Last on Land."

[19:32] Joe Iconis: And I don't know where I'd be if you weren't here with me.

[19:39] Joe Iconis: And I don't know how much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listened to or watched this thing and subscribe or like or give us a great rating or review. And then head to bpn.fm/album to find out even more information about this podcast, more ways to watch, more ways to listen, and check out my album, Album. Thanks so much for hanging out.

[19:58] Joe Iconis: Album Podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstain, Alan Seales, Kim Garris, and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network. Be sure to visit bpn.fm/album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to Album.