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[0:00] Joe Iconis: Hey, I'm Joe Iconis.

[0:02] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: And I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. And you are listening to ALBUM PODCAST on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:21] Joe Iconis: On this episode, we're going to be talking about my song Starting to Forget, which is one of the earliest songs on the record.

[0:28] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: One special thing on this episode is we go deep diving into the history of Joe Iconis's senior undergrad recital in college, which is a favorite topic of mine and a really great episode for super Iconis and family fans.

[0:44] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I think that this is a good one for people who are really invested in my life and career, and maybe a good one for newbies as well, because it really starts at the top. So you haven't missed anything yet.

[1:03] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, we also talk about your collaboration with Badia Farha, one of your longest collaborators and performer of this track.

[1:20] Joe Iconis: So this song is perhaps the second song chronologically that you wrote that appears on the album. Do you want to talk about the origin story of just how long ago you wrote Starting to Forget?

[1:31] Joe Iconis: Yeah, I sure do. So I wrote Starting to Forget when I was an undergrad at NYU. And it was a song that I wrote for this musical theater writing class. And this class was, you know, I worked with a musical theater writing, private composition teacher, who I believe I've talked about on the podcast, but his name is Steve Rosenhaus. He still teaches at NYU. He's a fantastic teacher. So I worked on musical theater stuff with him. But there weren't any other like musical theater writing classes when I was an undergrad at NYU for the first couple years. And then my third year, they started this musical theater writing class that was really kind of based on the BMI lab, which is what the NYU grad program is also kind of based on.

But this class was taught by this guy, Alan Cohen, who was a musical theater writer. And, you know, it was a big class and everyone every week or two weeks would share their work based on an assignment that was handed down to them. And so we were writing songs based on the Neil Simon play Brighton Beach Memoirs. And I had written a couple tunes so far. And it was the kind of thing where it's like, I think we had like, you know, the four or five, maybe six assignments based on Brighton Beach Memoirs. And so this assignment was for, I think Eugene is the name of the character. And it was like a little boy. And he, I guess, is writing about his grandfather. I don't I don't fully remember Brighton Beach Memoirs, but I, you know, I had this assignment to write for this character.

And I was kind of like, you know, I should really just write a song about my own grandfather. I had this grandpa, his name is Grandpa Joe. And he died when I was a senior in high school. So this would have been like, you know, just a couple years before I was writing this Brighton Beach Memoirs song. And he was like a father to me. He was more than a grandpa. I loved him very much. And he was this really sort of, you know, boisterous, charismatic guy. And I realized, you know, the older I get, I just kept kind of like live my life to kind of, you know, live up to what my ideas of him were as a kid. Right. And so he was this very, you know, large, looming figure in my life. And so when I had this opportunity to write this song for this kid in Brighton Beach Memoirs about his grandfather, I was like, I should just write about, you know, Grandpa Joe, but sort of through the lens of this kid.

And I did. I wrote this song Starting to Forget. And the song as it is on the album is pretty much identical to what I wrote when I was, you know, 20 years old at NYU. And after I finished it, it really was the first time that I was like, oh, wait a minute. This song, this sounds like the sort of writer that I want to become. It felt like it was written by someone who is not me. You know, it was like and really it was like it was the first time where my voice as a writer started to, like, congeal. You know, it's like the first time where I could point to something and be like, oh, that's me. Like, that's my personality as a writer. That's my, you know, that's my the the the things that sort of have become like sort of hallmarks of my writing.

They started to take shape in that song, even though it's a really short song, really simple song. I just I wrote it and I knew, oh, that's different. There's like something different here. And I think, you know, because of that, that's probably why I, you know, since that day, I've always approached writing from a really personal place. Like it's why I can only write things that I connect to because I just sort of found, oh, the way that I can write in a voice that feels really true to me is if I write from the point of view of a character, but it's filtered through my own personal experiences. And so Starting to Forget was like that that was the start of that for me.

[6:19] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: When I think of Starting to Forget, I think of this very early recording of it long before album, which was generously gifted to me by your brother, Phil Iconis. After a holiday, we celebrated together when he was like, you don't have a recording of my brother's senior recital. And now I do. But when I remember that album I'm thinking of, which is like Starting to Forget and it's still in the same format as it is today on the album. Is that your senior undergrad recital or is that from grad school?

[6:49] Joe Iconis: So on that album, there's like obviously like there's some black suit stuff and there's some other songs that are in your oeuvre. I would be curious to know like, after Starting to Forget, which we'll go back to like, what do you think is like the third song that's on the album in terms of like chronological writing?

[7:06] Joe Iconis: Oh my gosh, it's the third song on the album would definitely be Black Suit Stuff because I and the first of the rockers in that senior recital, I think it was that. Yeah, so Starting to Forget I wrote it was my third year. And so at NYU undergrad at that time in the composition department, you did a junior recital and a senior recital. And so Starting to Forget was first performed in the junior recital. And then it was again in the senior recital with the addition of Joey's a Punk Rocker. So Joey's a Punk Rocker just celebrated its 20th anniversary. It was performed for the first ever time, May 2nd, 2003.

[7:50] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Wow, see, I knew you'd remember I was like, Oh, I'm throwing this like dates thing at you, but you remembered. So this performance on the album is special because

[7:59] Joe Iconis: Badia Farha is one of your longest collaborators. You started working with her in college, but a lot of the songs she's sung are not hits.

[8:06] Badia Farha: Yes. Badia Farha was literally in my senior recital. And junior recital. Badia Farha was there. Badia Farha was literally there the first time.

[8:15] Joe Iconis: Yes. Starting to Forget was performed, and then 20 years later sang it on my album.

[8:20] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: So she performed in both, or she was there? What did she perform?

[8:24] Joe Iconis: Performed in both. Badia performed a song called Big Fat Ruby at NYU, which was a story song.

[8:35] Joe Iconis: And it's a very simple song. It's the kind of song that I feel a little cringy about these days.

[8:42] Joe Iconis: But the hook was, it was Big Fat Ruby in a little red dress. And it was about this woman who was large and wore a red dress.

[8:50] Joe Iconis: And at the time, it felt very exciting. And people in my family still talk about the song because they think it's the best thing I ever wrote.

[8:57] Joe Iconis: But Badia sang that. And yes, it took her 20 years to get to Starting to Forget, which was there.

[9:06] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Well, obviously, you know, Badia's been in multiple shows of yours since then. But Starting to Forget was not a song she had sung before the album, right? So how did that come about?

[9:16] Joe Iconis: It wasn't. And Badia, she sang a bunch of songs of mine, and she's on Things to Ruin.

[9:22] Joe Iconis: And the album was recorded a year after we recorded Broadway Bounty Hunter, which Badia is on and sings Woman of a Certain Age, amongst many other songs.

[9:37] Joe Iconis: And Badia has a huge vocal presence on that album. And so in finding a song on this album, I was thinking about a whole bunch of things as I was sifting through the humans I wanted on the record and the songs I wanted on the record and where the overlap was.

[9:55] Joe Iconis: And because Badia is such like a galvanizing, electrifying performer and because she's such an incredible sort of high energy performer and such an incredible comic performer, I was kind of thinking, what comedic or big bombastic song could she do?

[10:17] Joe Iconis: And then I kind of stumbled on this idea of her singing Starting to Forget, which is the complete opposite from the sort of stuff I normally have her sing. And I just felt like, oh, there's something that feels correct about this.

[10:34] Joe Iconis: Because in addition to all of the huge stuff that she does, she really is an incredible interpreter of lyric. She's one of those actors where when she sings something, you understand what she's saying always, always, always. And I thought that it would connect with her.

[10:54] Joe Iconis: Not long before we recorded the album, Badia's dad, Al, passed away. And he was such a great man. And I've known Badia's whole family for a very long time. And her father loved her so much. Her father came to every single show that she did, came to so many of my shows.

[11:18] Joe Iconis: And so the day we recorded, it was a day where, you know, I hadn't seen Badia in quite some time. And she was coming to record this song. And my aunts, who are, you know, the greatest, the greatest women, Ro and Sherry, literally both have license plates on their cars that are Be More Chill vanity plates.

[11:45] Joe Iconis: They came to visit the recording session. You know, it was like the one day out of, you know, whatever, like 14, 15 days that they were like, oh, we're going to come to the city and we just want to see the album recorded. So they came in to visit that day. Badia was there. Badia has known them for years and years and years.

[12:03] Joe Iconis: And she recorded this song, which she so, you know, closely associated with her father who had passed away. And it was really one of the most, like, you know, moving times I've ever, you know, spent professionally or personally. And it really felt like it felt like all the stuff we talk about, about how this this thing that we do is a family.

[12:26] Joe Iconis: And it's more than just, you know, some people like getting together and singing some songs. And it's more than just like some actors who are thrown together rehearsing a show. It really is like it's a it's a it's like a it's a life's work, you know, and the human beings who are part of it are are, you know, they're more than important. They're like the reason that it all exists.

[12:46] Joe Iconis: And so, you know, being in the studio with Badia singing the song and and crying with her and then having my aunts there who, you know, are also crying and like hugging Badia as she's singing. It was just something that felt so surreal and felt like, oh, this it felt important. And it felt like, yeah, this this is this is all for a reason.

[13:10] Joe Iconis: It's like the this this thing that we do, it's it's it's really, you know, worth the damn. And it means something.

[13:20] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, it was so beautiful when she was recording it. And then I remember I had to like step out to take a work phone call. And like when I came back, I was just like everyone was coming out of the studio sobbing. It was just like a wall of people crying. It's like so I'm glad I got to hear the full story about that.

[13:40] Joe Iconis: Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, Badia, like she she's just the greatest. But, you know, and it was something we never before I gave her the song, I never I never said like, oh, here's the song, which I think you'll enjoy, you know, because it relates to your father.

[13:56] Joe Iconis: And she never said anything. But then, you know, being in the studio, it was just so clear it was going on. And and and she I remember her saying, like, I really needed to sing that song. And I'm I'm so thankful that that we're in each other's lives because it's like without even saying the words sometimes we just know what the other one needs. Yeah.

[14:23] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Badia Farha. No one better.

[14:26] Joe Iconis: Badia Farha. The absolute greatest.

[14:52] Joe Iconis: Yeah.

[15:22] Joe Iconis: Still, I'm starting to forget.