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[0:00] Joe Iconis: Hi, I'm Joe Iconis.

[0:02] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: And I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. On today's episode of the ALBUM PODCAST, we're going to be talking about "Sympathy for the Killer," which is a song that is kind of in the world of the horror movie songs that exist on the album, but it's less about one horror movie and more just about the idea of the victims in horror movies.

[0:19] Joe Iconis: You are going to get to listen to an amazing rendition of the song, as sung by Liz Lark Brown, with a 1930s themed arrangement from Charlie Rosen. Very HEPP.

[0:32] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It's very HEPP. It's HEPP for Halloween, as the kids would say. Check it out.

[0:42] Joe Iconis: "Sympathy for the Killer." This is such a dramatically different song than the last few songs we've been talking about. It's like in a different style musically.

[0:49] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It is.

[0:50] Joe Iconis: Yeah. You know, "Sympathy for the Killer" is a weird one. It's not done all that much. And it's a song that I wasn't sure I wanted to include on the album. And then when I decided, it's one of the few that I rewrote a little bit for the album, just because what I was trying to say with the song, I feel like maybe it wasn't totally clear in its first version.

[1:09] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[1:10] Joe Iconis: So I just wanted to clarify a little bit. And it's basically in the second verse, the ones about therapy and stuff. But yeah, you know, "Sympathy for the Killer" is kind of an intentionally messy song about a person who is kind of playing the victim. And is playing the victim for reasons that are either because of herself, it's because she has cast herself in this role, or because society has cast her in this role. And it's like, which one of those two things is it? And it's probably both of those things.

[1:40] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[1:41] Joe Iconis: And, you know, so that's sort of like what I wanted to write about. And I think I saw many people I knew at the time when I first wrote it, who were sort of in these relationships, and not even just romantic relationships, but you know, friendships and stuff. And I certainly felt that myself, where it was like, you're in these, you know, these relationships where you're just, you know, you're being abused, and how hard it is to get out of an abusive relationship, whether that abuse is emotional, or physical, or monetary, or whatever.

[2:12] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[2:13] Joe Iconis: And that sort of terrible cycle of recognizing this is happening, I'm aware it's happening, and I am complicit in allowing it to happen. But I can't get out of it, you know, which I think is a very real thing for very many people. And then I liked the idea of using the framework of one of the victims in these horror movies that I love watching, and I love writing about, you know, and it's like, the idea of, are these people doing, are these people like putting something out in a way that allows, you know, Michael Myers, or Jason Voorhees, or whoever, Freddy Krueger, to come after them? Or is it just, you know, is it, is it just dumb luck? Or, you know, what is it? What is that actual relationship?

[3:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[3:02] Joe Iconis: Yeah. And then because the, because the, because that idea feels so sort of like contemporary, you know, it feels so like examining, oh, why are we in these relationships that we're in? Again, be they, you know, romantic, or, or, or, you know, friends, or professional, whatever. Why are we in these things? And, and, and how do we end up here? And how do we navigate them? That feels like such a, you know, sort of modern thing to question that. I like the idea of, of using a musical style of the past, and to have it feel like the sort of, you know, 1940s, jazzy, you know, tune that like, if you didn't hear the lyrics of "Sympathy for the Killer," you know, you might, if you just heard the music, it would totally fit in as like, you know, background music.

[4:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[4:02] Joe Iconis: And, like, you know, "Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" or something, right? It's like, it's that kind of like nightclub 40s vibe. Which also, I think is, you know, is also kind of saying that this is a, this, this, this, this problem or this situation that the song is depicting is, you know, it's like tale as old as time. It's like, it's something that's been around forever. We're just kind of like talking about it now.

[4:26] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Was this song written like on Liz Lark Brown's voice?

[4:29] Joe Iconis: This song? It was. Yeah, I wrote this for Liz Lark Brown.

[4:32] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: When was like the first time she performed it?

[4:34] Joe Iconis: She performed it at the Beachmen. I don't know if it would have been a Halloween concert or not. I bet it, I bet it was. I bet it was. And it was probably like 2000 and I think this was like 2000, it might have been 2010 actually. I guess like 9 or 10.

[4:50] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I guess it's a big year for you writing a lot of songs.

[4:52] Joe Iconis: I wrote so many songs.

[4:54] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: It does now that we're talking about it, I'm like, oh, I guess it's sort of related to "Hatchet Job" or maybe I just feel that way because that's another like signature Liz Lark Brown song that's related to Killing.

[5:06] Joe Iconis: Yeah. I mean, I guess there's a lot of Liz Lark Brown songs that I've written that are related to Killing or maybe, you know, I mean, Liz is just like, she's such a, she's such a great musical comedy performer and she, you know, she has this like this gorgeous voice that works so well in, you know, like a lot of people on the album that work so well in the world of kind of like rock and pop, but also classic musical theater.

[5:30] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[5:31] Joe Iconis: But Liz, like there's something about her voice, this gorgeous deep voice that it feels like it's like Shantusi, you know, it's like, it's something that is, is like, it feels, it feels like kind of from another time in, in the best way.

[5:44] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[5:45] Joe Iconis: And so I think I really like giving her stuff that plays against the sort of like classicness of her, of her voice. You know, it's like, what would it, you know, what, what would it be like if some of the great singers of the forties and fifties and sixties could sing, you know, content that they never would have been allowed to sing in the forties and sixties, you know?

[6:06] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[6:07] Joe Iconis: And so, and so for me, because her voice is so sort of gorgeous and because it immediately takes you to this place of like, you know, like a, like a smoking nightclub or like a, you know, a, you know, an old sort of, you know, beautiful gilded theater. I feel like I, time and time again, when I write for her, I want to return to images of like blood and murder and monsters and things like that, but feel really at odds with, you know, what her, her voice just kind of sounds like when she lets it rip.

[6:32] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah.

[6:33] Joe Iconis: And this is another like amazing Charlie Rosen arrangement that like, you know, I, what I love about his work always, but on this song in particular, it doesn't like tip its hat to the, the, the horror of the content of the song.

[6:45] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[6:46] Joe Iconis: It really allows itself to, um, to just, to just exist in this kind of, this kind of old timey place, which then allows the content to be the thing that is, um, sitting to, you know, slightly to the left of that.

[7:01] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Totally.

[7:02] Joe Iconis: It's also, I feel like even when you hear this just with piano, you can intuit the style that we're talking about, the 1940s and all of that, but it's so exciting to hear it with an instrumentation.

[7:12] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah.

[7:13] Joe Iconis: Like it's just, it really makes you feel like you're there.

[7:16] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah.

[7:17] Joe Iconis: I think so.

[7:18] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I think so.

[7:19] Joe Iconis: And you know, I think there, because there are, because there are so many, because there are so many songs on this album that are from the point of view of, I mean, like killers, you know, or killers or monsters or whatever. I like the idea of having a, just addressing the fact that there are, you know, there are victims of those people.

[7:39] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[7:40] Joe Iconis: And even though this, this song, I do not think is, is, you know, it's, it's, I think it's, there's a lot going on and it's not like, you know, it's definitely not like justice for the victims of, of, you know, of werewolves.

[7:54] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[7:55] Joe Iconis: There's more to it, but it's just sort of like hearing from that other side and kind of acknowledging the, the, the weird sort of, you know, symbiotic relationship where it's like, you have to, you know, in order for there to, to be a, uh, a villain, there has to be a victim.

[8:12] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[8:13] Joe Iconis: And vice versa. Killer monster or whatever, the sequel to "Loser Geek."

[8:18] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah.

[8:19] Joe Iconis: I also, um, I, I feel like I need to, uh, to give a shout out to Molly Hager, who does some, some creepy backups.

[8:24] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[8:25] Joe Iconis: Um, when I think the creepy backups are, um, I always think of that as like the audience watching the movie, you know, it's like the, that's like, that is like, you know, performing the role of the, the, the enablers who are, who are, you know, kind of the, either the reason for it or certainly not helping it, you know, the kind of like reacting the like, ah, and it's like both, both sympathizing with the victim and wanting to see her get carved up, uh, which I think is such a strange thing about, about horror movies and relationships, you know, the people who are like, you're counseling the person in the bad relationship.

[9:06] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Right.

[9:07] Joe Iconis: It's like, there is this sense of like, you know, living off of someone else's drama and living off of someone else's misfortune. And so I think that's, um, that's an element that's in, in the tune as well.

[9:19] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: That's the sympathy for the killer.

[9:21] Joe Iconis: I was trying to, it's okay.

[9:22] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: No, it was good.

[9:23] Joe Iconis: I was just giving a look, but, oh, sympathy for the killer.

[9:29] Joe Iconis: Hey, thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast. Do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like, or give us a great rating or review, and then head to bpn.fm slash album to find out even more information about this podcast, more ways to watch more ways to listen and check out my album album.

[10:04] Joe Iconis: Thanks so much for hanging out.

[10:07] Joe Iconis: ALBUM PODCAST is executive produced by Liz Armstrong, produced by Dori Berenstein, Alan Seals, Kim Garris, and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network.

[10:19] Joe Iconis: Be sure to visit bpn.fm slash album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to album.