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[0:00] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Hi, I'm Jennifer Ashley Tepper. And I'm Joe Iconis and you're listening to ALBUM PODCAST on the Broadway Podcast Network. This is our final episode of this podcast and it is the final track on the album, Try Again. So on this episode, you'll get to hear about the origin story of the song and how a particular experience inspired this to be performed initially at a porn factory we were all very fond of at the time. Yeah, and you'll also hear the future plans for ALBUM PODCAST now that we've finished the album. So please listen to this very special final episode of ALBUM PODCAST. Tell us about when you first wrote Try Again.

[1:10] Joe Iconis: I first wrote Try Again in July of 2015. And the context for me writing the song was very specific. And it had to do with a lot of things. But the trigger for it was the opening of Be More Chill at Two River. And so Be More Chill opened at Two River in June of 2015. And leading up to the opening of Be More Chill, a lot of people were really excited about the show, a lot of like industry people. And everyone kept saying things to me like, Oh, I think that this is going to be the one. This is going to be your show that finally does the thing you want your shows to do, which is go to New York to like a fancy off-Broadway nonprofit and then go to Broadway. Like everyone was just like, this one is like, it feels like commercial, but it's strange.

It has all these things going for it. So there's all this like buzz around the show. And so then the show opened and the New York Times sent a major critic. And like every other show I've literally ever done in my whole entire life, the critic gave it a bad review, really bad review, said it was a piece of shit. And because of that, all of the buzz immediately went away, like immediately went away. And it's something that I've talked about quite often in interviews and such. And people always want to do the like reviews don't matter thing, but I just, I cannot impress upon our dear listeners enough how for a show like the sort of show that I write, they just do matter because the people who let those shows have other lives listen to the reviews. And so.

[3:03] Joe Iconis: Not only, and I, I mean, I say this a lot too, not only did the buzz disappear, but people literally canceled their tickets, which I always want to remind like the day after opening or the day after the review came out, actually like all these people who were coming to see the show to consider moving it to New York, were like, okay, next time we're canceling our tickets. There's no point in attending. And I think, you know, the intention of saying reviews don't matter is people want to say reviews shouldn't matter. And it's the same as like, you know, human rights shouldn't be political. Like, yeah, of course, but like they are, so we have to claim that. And so we can address it. And it's like, yeah, reviews of course do matter.

[3:41] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[3:42] Joe Iconis: Yeah. The canceling tickets thing is so funny. I mean, it just, it happens literally every time you get a bad times review. And, and I, I have sense cause I've, I've, I've, you know, I've mentioned that in interviews and, and, and post, you know, be more chill coming to New York. I've had producers jokingly say to me, you know, I, I was one of those people who canceled my tickets. Ha ha ha ha. Which is like a little bit, it's a little bit gross, but kind of validating to be like, I'm not crazy. All of those people didn't just get the flu after the bad New York times review, you know? And so, so at any rate, so like the, the show opens and the buzz goes away and I was really heartbroken because, you know, I, this had come after blood song of love and I was working on another project at the time that I was about to get fired from.

And I was working on a few other things and nothing was quite happening for me. And I was, I was really frustrated. And, and we booked this show at a Shakina Neofax musical theater factory, the old porn studio. And, and we, and we were doing this, you know, Iconis and family show. And, and I think as we talked about it, that was the show in July of 2015 that Amphibian was performed at in concert for the time and a few other things. And, and I wrote this song for that show, Try Again. And it really was a song that like kind of came out fully formed, you know? It's like, I knew that I wanted to write something that had the, had the like, the hook of if at first you don't succeed, uh, try and try again.

Um, because to me, like those, those sort of sayings, you know, are like, it's, it's the same thing as like reviews don't matter. It's like these things that people say and don't actually think about them or don't actually think about what it means. And so it's like, I wanted to write something that was like, that was about that and was about, you know, resiliency and was about like living in your, living in your depression and then, you know, dusting yourself off and, and trying again. And so I, uh, I, so I wrote it and I did it at, at that show and there's a video of me doing it at that show. And, um, it's the ultimate, like, I feel like the song kind of speaks for itself. It's like as autobiographical as any song I, you know, could be, I feel like.

Um, and it's something that's so specifically about artists, but I do think, and I, you know, I hope that other people can relate to it. Like, because I do think it applies to, to, to anyone. And certainly people have told me that that song means a lot to them, um, who are not, you know, artists or not, you know, like artists on the surface at least.

[6:32] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah.

[6:33] Joe Iconis: Yeah. I feel like the premiere of it sort of felt similar to the premiere of Broadway Here I Come and that the audience knew how personal it was. And like, you know, in every subsequent performance, it probably became a little more about the song, but in this moment it felt like, oh, we're bummed about this thing that happened too. And like, we realized what you, what inspired you to write this. And we're like on this personal journey with you. Um, and I also feel like this song was performed more than just that time at the factory. Like I associate this, this song with the musical theater factory. Um, yeah. Was there ever another song you considered being the last song on the album? Or did you always know that this would be the last song on album?

[7:22] Joe Iconis: I was kind of, you know, I was kind of going back and forth between this song or Last on Land.

[7:31] Joe Iconis: Ending the album and I feel like everyone else making the album kind of assumed it would be last on land just because last on land is so huge and the ending of it feels so like warm and fuzzy but I always I always felt like you know if a song like last on land or the goodbye song is a great final song for a live show I always loved the idea of the last song on the album being something that was kind of unexpected and kind of smaller and a little bit simpler.

[7:59] Joe Iconis: Try again really like you know sort of announced itself as being the closing song and to me there's a nice symmetry between the first song on the album being album which is you know which starts with me and a piano and then then adds a whole bunch of people and then this one you know being the closing song which is you know me and a piano and a beautiful French horn solo by Kira Sims but then just kind of ends with me and piano again it felt like a nice full circle moment and also it's like I think that you know if last on land is this like this grand gorgeous statement about I mean gorgeous like because of the arrangement I'm not calling my own song gorgeous even I like it a lot but you know it's like some man feels like this like huge sweeping you know statement on friendship and art and and perseverance and all that I like that try again is a little bit pricklier and it's a little bit scrappier and it's about like you know it's not always it's not always like that you know like a life in the arts and and and and you know an existence collaborating with a community of people it's not always beautiful and it's not always romantic but it's um it's you know it's worthy and and it's uh and it you know you can you can prevail in it amongst the hardships and so that's what that's what try again feels like to me and I like the sentiment you know the the sentiment of it ending the album feels feels correct it's like the maybe you know it's like the better better luck next time and as long as we're doing it together we'll be all right that feels like a good way to end a three and a half hour epic album.

[9:57] Joe Iconis: It feels like if this album came out in the 90s I feel like a lot of musical theater writers and like solo artists who made albums would always have like a bonus track that was like a smaller type number at the end it would always be labeled as a bonus track but it was just you know recorded at the same time this would have been labeled bonus track in the 90s is what I'm saying.

[10:16] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: I 100% think you're correct.

[10:21] Joe Iconis: Yeah I certainly think it would have been ripped off a lot by other artists if it was kind of came out in the 90s and they'd be like yeah it would always be like the big ending song and then the little piano ballad right after.

[10:32] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Has anyone else performed this other than you?

[10:38] Joe Iconis: Yeah, Lance Reidman has performed it. Lance Reidman performed it at the big jazz at Lincoln Center show that we did right before the world ended in 2020 and he did it at the 54 Below shows we did last summer, summer 2022 and his take on it is it's like when Lance performs it it feels kind of like he's like a deranged host of a children's show or something you know it's like I feel like it feels like weirdly like like Sesame Street you know on anti-depressants or something.

[11:13] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Lance Reidman is Mr. Bungie is Try Again.

[11:21] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah exactly and he really dials in to the like the sort of panic of it and the and the you know the the anxiety of of an unstable life in the arts whereas I think mine is a little bit more wistful and a little bit more like you know lived in or something but yeah I think it's only one yeah he's the only one yeah I think it's only Lance and I.

[11:38] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, yeah.

[11:46] Joe Iconis: Well this brings us to the end of this podcast so thank you to all the listeners for geeking out with us and listening to us talk about you know the important stuff and the minutia of all these songs.

[11:58] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, I uh I've been so blown away by people's responses to this podcast and it's been really cool having people quote things at me that I've said that I have no memory of saying on this podcast.

[12:11] Joe Iconis: Also thank you like to the Broadway Podcast Network not just for letting us make this but for having it be something evergreen that will just exist because as many people listen to it already like I'm excited you know as you said like years from now for someone to be like oh I know this about this song because I just listened to the podcast so um we're really grateful to have kind of put all this stuff down on the record and I think it'll be really nice for when we're very elderly Tepper and our memories are not what they used to be to have this to go back to listen to to remind us where things came from when we're.

[12:42] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, I already feel like that with some parts of you know I'll be like oh when did this happen in terms of you know shows we worked on together or anything and I'll look at what Facebook used to be to tell me because I'm like oh I wrote on Jason's wall last night that this was the performance where that happened we don't have those records like that's not what social media is in 2023 and unless we actually like create you know things like this that are real um you know documentations of it they disappear so thank you.

[13:06] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah thank you Broadway Podcast Network.

[13:11] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Um which album are we doing next Tepper?

[13:17] Joe Iconis: Well I guess album two or we could just do Ragtime.

[13:24] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Yeah, I've been listening to Woman of the Year a lot lately we could do that.

[13:33] Joe Iconis: Oh yeah catch us catch us next season on the album the album podcast Woman of the Year.

[13:46] Joe Iconis: Yeah um thanks Tepps.

[13:46] Jennifer Ashley Tepper: Thank you Joe.

[13:51] Joe Iconis: Hey thanks so much for listening or watching to my podcast uh do me a favor and go to wherever you just listen to or watch this thing and subscribe or like or give us a great rating or review and then head to bpn.fm/album to find out even more information about this podcast more ways to watch more ways to listen and check out my album Album thanks so much for hanging out.

[14:10] Joe Iconis: Album Podcast is executive produced by Liz Armstrong produced by Dory Berenstein, Alan Seales, Kim Garris and the rest of the team at the Broadway Podcast Network be sure to visit bpn.fm/album for both audio and video versions of this podcast and to listen to Album.

[14:28] Joe Iconis: ♪ Musical number: "Try Again" — performed by Joe Iconis & Family ♪