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[0:00] Charlotte St. Martin: Hi, I'm Charlotte St. Martin. You're listening to, and The Award Goes To...

[0:06] Charlotte St. Martin: It's a look back at Broadway's most magical night, and all of the winners reminisce with delight, with their talents and brilliance they always impress, and the Tony goes to my special guest.

[0:23] Charlotte St. Martin: Have you ever dreamed of winning a Tony Award? Did you ever practice your Tony acceptance speech in the bathroom mirror? Did you grow up watching the Tony Awards every year? Do you have a collection of Tony Award shows on VHS tape that you refuse to throw out? Well then this is the podcast for you.

[0:41] Charlotte St. Martin: Every week I interview your favorite Tony Award winners, and together we go down memory lane as my guests share intimate, and never before shared details about their Tony experience. By the end of every episode, you're going to feel like you just won a Tony. Welcome to, and the Tony goes to...

[1:00] Ilana Levine: I'm your host, Ilana Levine. Welcome, President of The Broadway League, Charlotte St. Martin.

[1:10] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, we have this character by the name of James Corden as our host, and we know that there will be much fun, much mischief, and an amazing show because of the amazing shows that graced our stages this year. So that's how we're going to celebrate.

[1:26] Ilana Levine: Charlotte St. Martin, I'm so happy to get to celebrate you today, and the award goes to... And I wanted to just introduce you, as President of The Broadway League, to my listeners, and what I would love to know, as someone who is the partner with the American Theatre Wing in producing the Tonys every year, tell me how you came to fall in love with the theatre in your own life.

[1:54] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, it's a simple story. I was 16, high school, we had a big musical theatre program, and my boyfriend played the King in The King and I. And of course, I liked him a lot, but I really loved The King and I. So I fell in love with theatre the first time I saw it, and that love affair has never ended.

[2:16] Ilana Levine: Wow. Did you grow up watching The Tonys?

[2:20] Charlotte St. Martin: I don't think I grew up watching The Tonys, but early. You know, probably when I got out of college, I used to give Tony parties when I had a place to have a Tony party. So it's been part of my life for a very long time.

[2:37] Ilana Levine: Well, now you throw the biggest Tony party ever. How hilarious that it has come so full circle in that way. I love your accent so much. Where did you grow up?

[2:50] Charlotte St. Martin: I grew up in Dallas, Texas, and in a little town that was in effect a suburb. But we had a big musical theatre program.

[3:01] Ilana Levine: In your school?

[3:03] Charlotte St. Martin: Yes, yes. And I mean, Dallas obviously is a place that has so many touring companies come through and so much theatre going on there, both, you know, in the sort of not-for-profit world and in commercial theatre. Did you grow up with your family going to see stuff regularly?

[3:23] Charlotte St. Martin: Oh, the Dallas Summer Musicals was my favorite form of entertainment, as it was my mother's. And we had season tickets. We also went to the Majestic Theatre, which had been a movie theatre, but became an additional theatre that hosted both plays and musicals. And then there was always the Dallas Theatre Center, which was quite a famous theatre in Dallas for plays. And all three of them were very much part of my form of entertainment. As a matter of fact, I almost didn't do anything else. I had to save my allowance or the monies I made from my part-time jobs while going to school in order to do all of those things. But it was worth every bit of it.

[4:13] Ilana Levine: Wow. And were you a household that had, like, Broadway cast albums playing? Was that a big part of your childhood?

[4:20] Charlotte St. Martin: Not really. My mother was an opera fan. I didn't have cast albums until I got out of college.

[4:29] Ilana Levine: And did you do shows yourself?

[4:33] Charlotte St. Martin: No. I'm actually one of the few people working on Broadway that never intended to work for Broadway. I wanted to be in the audience. I was such a bad singer that they made me mouth in my sorority sing-song. So there was no chance I was going to be on stage.

[4:53] Ilana Levine: Oh, my God. That's hilarious. Well, you have really been the face and representative and spokeswoman for this incredible organization. And it's so funny. So many people, when they sort of describe it, they say it's a national trade organization. And I was thinking today, as an actor, that is not, like, a super familiar phrase to me. So can you explain for other actors like me who are listening, what does that mean?

[5:26] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, a trade association's role is generally to protect and enhance the business it represents. For example, we represent commercial theater, not just in New York, but around the country. Think of the American Bankers Association. They are a trade association representing banks and financial institutions. Even the NFL is a trade association, in effect, representing all of the football owners of all of those great football teams.

[5:59] Ilana Levine: Got it.

[6:00] Charlotte St. Martin: So we do what all trade associations do with a few additional things, like we negotiate all 17 labor contracts for Broadway with the 14 unions. That's not necessarily what other trade associations do. But we do government relations, working with our city, state, and federal officials. We have membership where we have conferences and forums to help educate our members on all sorts of things relating to commercial theater. We are the branding Broadway organization. So we do programs that keep Broadway alive and well in the minds of our theater goers. We do marketing programs like Broadway Week, in which we work with the city and NYC and Co., and you buy one ticket and you get one free during Broadway Week.

[7:00] Ilana Levine: Right.

[7:01] Charlotte St. Martin: Then we do things like the research of Broadway, which is a very important thing that we do because we're able to talk with our elected officials, for example, and say to New York, we provide almost $15 billion in economic impact to the city of New York, and we're responsible for our directly employed 97,000 people. So please listen to us and please help us keep Broadway healthy. Those are the kinds of things that we do. And then there's this other little thing called the Tony Awards that we obviously do with the American Theater Wing.

[7:43] Ilana Levine: All right. So just before you and I started to talk today, I had the pleasure of speaking with Heather Hitchens, who runs the American Theater Wing, and I said, do you have a message for Charlotte? And she said, no, we don't even have to speak. We both know what the other person is thinking without even talking at this point. And I thought, what an incredible partnership you two women have.

[8:06] Charlotte St. Martin: We really do. I mean, when they had the side show on Broadway, we said, wouldn't it be fun if we came out on the Tonys with Velcroed to the hip? Because we truly are joined at the hip. I mean, they founded the Tonys and award our shows. So we are like two minds put together to bring the magic of Broadway to this country and the world.

[8:37] Ilana Levine: Can you promise me that when we come back from this intermission and when we have Tonys again, which we will, I know it, that the two of you will come out Velcroed?

[8:48] Charlotte St. Martin: That would be really happy making.

[8:51] Ilana Levine: Well, I'm afraid I can't help you and say I promise, though it's something we both have wanted to do. When we came up with the idea, William Hy-Vee Long was our chair, who's like the world's best costume designer. And we knew we could get it done, but there might be people who didn't understand the significance.

[9:11] Ilana Levine: Well, we will also have your sorority sisters sing behind you so you won't have to sing and you will just move your mouth. You can choose if you're Daisy or Violet and you can be twins together.

[9:24] Ilana Levine: I want to ask you because, you know, when you describe and we joked about the sort of full circle moment of it all, someone who threw Tony parties herself is now throwing the Tony party every year. How did you come from this girl in Dallas who loved The King and I to someone who, I mean, talk about saving your pennies to go see shows. I can only imagine if you counted how many opening nights or shows you see a year at this point. How did that arc happen professionally where what you love also became what you do, which is something so many people aspire to have that dream come true professionally?

[10:07] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, I consider myself the luckiest person on earth that I did get to take my avocation and make it my vocation.

[10:44] Charlotte St. Martin: The hospitality is a form of entertainment. And so, when I ran the largest hotel in Dallas called the Lowe's Anatol Hotel, and we had budgets that would allow us to do major events. And I literally hired Broadway performers to do all of our events for conferences that we held for sales conferences and all of that. The company that did it was called Incredible Productions and literally they were Broadway stars. And in the hotel industry, people began to know me as Broadway Charlotte because I worked up through many different roles in my hospitality career. And I began doing major events in my role with Lowe's for the industry. Like when the opening of McCormick Center in Chicago opened, we held a major event and I was chair and our people put the program together, which was a Broadway show, but basically about the industry.

So, I think my role in other associations related to hospitality put me at the forefront of the search company when they were looking for the new head of the league because they wanted people who understood associations, but also had a love of theater. So, the fact that I'd chaired three national trade associations and loved Broadway and was then living in New York and was seeing 25 to 30 shows a year made me a very viable candidate. I'm so lucky that they found me through the search company and it was love at first sight, I think, and here I am almost 15 years later.

[12:42] Ilana Levine: Wow. So, when you first started being a part of the process that you're describing, sort of being vetted through this headhunter, I guess, or search committee, what was the process? Who do you meet when you are being invited to be the head of this organization? What happens?

[13:04] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, you hit it on the head. There was a search company that was hired by a search committee. The search committee included representatives from the board of the Broadway League, including our dearly departed Phil Smith, who was president of Schubert, Jimmy Niederlander, Rocco Landesman. The chair of the search committee was Matthew Rigo, I'm sorry, Michael Rigo, a producer. Well, there are a lot of Rigo brothers. It's a fair... That's right. Yes. And, you know, Barry Weisler and a presenter, Judy Lisi, and Stuart Thompson was a producer on it. So, it was a makeup of the industry and they interviewed me several times. You know, I'm sure they started with a larger group and then narrowed it down to two people.

[14:00] Ilana Levine: And were you meeting with all of them at once or were these like one-on-one interviews?

[14:09] Charlotte St. Martin: No, I met with them all at once. I did do a few individual interviews because of specific questions they had about my background. And it was fascinating because, you know, I would have not thought of me as a natural person for this role. Right. But the more we talked, the more natural it became. It's amazing. I mean, I was looking at, you know, I don't know if I was looking at the most up-to-date board of governors list, but the people, you know, on that list include Jordan Roth and Jeffrey Seller and Tommy Schumacher and our dear mutual friend, Dori Berenstein and on and on and on. And I thought, wow, like to be in constant communication with sort of the most prolific theater creators, the people who are responsible for what we see every day on Broadway stages. What an incredible hive mind of ideas and passionate theater makers.

[15:09] Charlotte St. Martin: Oh, there's no question about that. It's, you know, there are times I have to pinch myself and then the times I'd like to kick myself because.

[15:21] Ilana Levine: Or kick them.

[15:21] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, there's that too. They're a very powerful, creative, entrepreneurial group. And I was married to an entrepreneur for 28 years and he woke up in a new mood every day and had a new deal at least once a week. And that kind of personality is a kingmaker. They are, you know, they listen to themselves for their own counsel. So getting a board of 51 people to come to consensus on some of the tough issues we face on Broadway is both energizing and challenging.

[15:58] Ilana Levine: You know, it's so fascinating that you say that, because I think, you know, every single one of those people and yourself included could do a Ted talk on sort of reaching your professional goals and dreams, right? And it sounds like there's a confidence level. And I think people constantly wonder is that intuitive and innate or can that be learned and absorbed? And I feel like you are one of those people. Did you come out of the womb super confident? Where does this strength and kind of sense of who you are and what you're capable of, where does that come from?

[16:42] Charlotte St. Martin: You know, I really don't know. There are those that think it's because I grew up in Texas. And Texans by nature tend to be independent and self-confident. I remember my sixth grade school teacher wrote a note to my mother and said, I don't really know sometimes who's teaching this class, whether it's Charlotte or me. He said, but when she does, she does a really good job. What made me think I had that right? I do not know. And I'm mortified when I think about it, but I do think there's certain characteristics that we're just born with. And when people put obstacles in my way, if I can't go through the door, I go around the door, under the door, over the door to get what needs to be done, done.

And I think that certainly describes most of my members because anybody that's confident enough to think that their show is going to be successful and will return a profit, when history shows that one out of five or one out of four are successful and return a profit. And I've never met, but one producer on one show, and he's a prolific producer, who said, I said, my friend, you know, this show cannot recoup. Why did you do it? He said, because it needed to be done. It happened to be Thurgood Marshall. It was spectacular. And it was a great show. But it was in a small theater and a limited run. And yet it was spectacular. And I loved it. But I've never met another producer who actually said, I know my show won't make it. They all believe it. And that's the kind, that's that self-confidence you're talking about.

[18:44] Ilana Levine: Yeah. What is different about what your job turned out to be from what you thought it would be when you said yes, after meeting with all those people, and they said yes, and a toast of champagne is, you know, then it's the real job starts. What surprised you that you didn't expect?

[19:03] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, I think I had, as you know, already, I had chaired three national trade associations and had been an officer of or on the board of an association since I was 22. And I thought I knew associations, but none are like the Broadway League. I mean, a producer also can own a theater and also can present and a theater owner can produce and a presenter can produce and own a theater or run a theater. So you can't, you know, there's no such thing as putting a round bag in a round hole. And usually what an association executive does is they find out what each category of member needs. And then ideally, they go about fulfilling those needs. Well, if a person produces and is the landlord, how do you make that work?

I mean, probably the song, the farmers and the cow hands can't be friends. Could have been something I could have learned from, and yet they can, but it's not natural, you know, and yet we make it natural. My first chair, Nina Lennon, once said, this is a really messy business. And now I really understand what she meant because what worked yesterday doesn't necessarily work today and won't work tomorrow. So you just constantly evolve and find solutions to the challenges and opportunities that are out there.

[20:59] Ilana Levine: So not, I mean, people maybe who live or work directly in Broadway or live in New York may be aware of so many of the things that the Broadway League does. But there, I'm just going to name two that are personal favorites, and I would love for you to talk about them. And then if there are more, you know, organizations or outreach programs that are really near and dear to your heart of the many that you guys do, feel free to jump in. But the two that I think are particularly extraordinary are the Jimmy Awards and Broadway Bridges. And I wonder if you could just talk about what those two mean to you.

[21:14] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, you did pick two of my favorites, so it's going to be very, very easy. First of all, Broadway Bridges is just the most remarkable program and one that I loved from day one.

[21:29] Charlotte St. Martin: When I saw it in high school as a sophomore. And so we went about creating that program. And when, you know, just this year as we had to shut down for the pandemic, we had just taken the 46,000th student to see their first Broadway show.

[22:19] Ilana Levine: Oh, my God, that's incredible.

[22:23] Charlotte St. Martin: It really is, because you know, it will open their eyes to arts and culture and entertainment. And we know that when that happens, people have a better rounded life. They do better in school. They many of them go on to higher education because it opens their eyes. And when we get back and when we get the resources again, you know, it will eventually be 70,000 kids a year. Wow. We're doing that in several other cities, but we can't do it at the same level because no other city has 41 theaters right there in a typical radius. So but we're still doing programs like that. And I know Broadway Bridges is changing our audience and will change our workforce because we partner with the Department of Education in New York City. And the students are also introduced to non-performance careers on Broadway through our careers.broadway website. So we know that we'll bring a lot of new people into working with theater in careers that aren't on stage.

[23:33] Ilana Levine: So what must it be like for you when you have a chance to leave your office and show up at a matinee where hundreds of New York City kids are sitting there, probably seeing a show for their first time? What does that feel like for you?

[23:49] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, I will tell you, I've only gotten to go to a matinee once where that was the case. We had pretty busy days at the league. Right. But I did cry. It was, you know, like half of the audience were kids and their energy, their enthusiasm, their awe of what was happening was simply amazing. I kind of felt sorry for some of the adults that didn't know they were coming to Broadway Bridges.

[24:18] Ilana Levine: We've all been those adults. It's OK.

[24:20] Charlotte St. Martin: We don't care. It's worth it.

[24:22] Ilana Levine: It's worth it.

[24:24] Charlotte St. Martin: It is. It is. So it really, you know, it restores my faith in what we're doing, because, you know, a lot of times there are many obstacles to getting something like that done. But it's important. You know, that day made it all worth it. Right.

[24:41] Ilana Levine: Right. What a legacy.

[24:42] Charlotte St. Martin: What a legacy, Charlotte, that that will be part of your, you know, handprint on this community. All right. Now, the Jimmy Awards, which I've gotten to go to, I've told people like you cannot believe the level of national talent. It is mind blowing. But can you just explain for someone who hasn't had the joy of being there as I have what that's all about?

[25:06] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, I will, and I'll give you just a minute pre on it when it was originally developed. It was developed by Nederlander and the Pittsburgh CLO, and they came to the league and wanted us to sponsor. I said, of course, I think it's a great idea. And I thought this is going to be a nice little high school thing, you know. And of course, we should support it. Well, my first one, I walked out and they're blown away. I've never seen such talent at that age, all in one place. And then a few years later, they asked the league to reach out and manage it because we had the ability because we are national to bring in our members from all over the country. And we have grown the program dramatically last year.

Our last season, we had one hundred and forty six thousand kids from seventeen hundred high schools compete in forty six regional programs to send two from each of those forty six programs to New York to be trained for a week. And it's like going to the Tony Awards for teens. Yeah, they're extraordinarily talented. You've seen it, you know. And, you know, our track record with our graduates and people that have participated is outstanding. I mean, a couple of years ago, both the young man and young woman that won went straight into Broadway shows. One became the lead in Dear Evan Hansen, and the other became one of the three leads in Mean Girls. You're talking about Renee Rapp and Andrew Barth Feldman.

And that is just a small example of the kind of talent that is discovered. But the thing that's so crazy, because you've been there, every single kid feels like that. You're like, how how is this? Every one of them should star in a Broadway show. It's just extraordinary. Extraordinary.

[27:07] Ilana Levine: It's absolutely. I mean, think they came from one hundred and forty six thousand kids that competed. So, of course, the talent is amazing. And those kids are building the future audiences for Broadway, not only in New York, but around the world. And that makes it both a heartwarming and a good business investment.

[27:31] Charlotte St. Martin: Yeah. You know, obviously we're talking it is twenty twenty one. We have been in a really global pandemic. I mean, we feel it here so much in New York, but it's happening all over the world. But this episode will be listened to long after this moment in time. So if you can, for a moment, just talk about what your hope is for the future when we come back, which we will. We always do when you think about it, because you're spending all day trying to make plans for when that happens. I know you're working so hard with so many partners. When you sort of dream about the future, what are you thinking right now? What's most on your mind for when we come back?

[28:23] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, certainly getting Broadway back and getting it back to be successful is what I work on 24 seven these days. We've got forty four task forces made up of over three hundred members that are working to just do that. But, you know, we all went through the racial reckoning last summer. And I think in many ways you'll see a different Broadway when we come back. Certainly it will be more inclusive. You'll see more BIPOC people. In the not only in the on stage, but in the audience serving the industry, and that is only good. I mean, I think Broadway has been a very diverse industry for a while, but certainly not diverse enough. And I think that will change. And I've seen this remarkable realization by our community that it is time and it is time for us to do it right.

And I think what we all went through, realizing we're one community and one city and one country that will be kinder and gentler to one another and more appreciative of the wonderful things that we have in our lives, like theater and each other.

[29:54] Ilana Levine: All right. I have one last question for you. Tell me what the Tonys mean to you.

[30:05] Charlotte St. Martin: Well, for me, it's the culmination each year of seeing the incredible talent. The passion, the drive that I know our members have to make Broadway the best form of theatrical entertainment in the world and see it culminate on stage. And my favorite part of Tony's Day is not the Tonys at night, but the dress rehearsal that morning, because you see the camaraderie of the cast and crew. They love each other. They're all supporting one another. The whole industry is supporting each other. It's a day when we all come together and celebrate the best of Broadway. And there's something so emotionally raw about seeing all of that happen in a room with six thousand people that love and respect the work you do. So that's what the Tony means to me, a celebration of our community and people's hard work and passion for that year.

[31:18] Ilana Levine: Charlotte St. Martin, thank you so much for being on the show today. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. And I really look forward to a time where we can be at a Broadway show together.

[31:32] Charlotte St. Martin: I couldn't agree more.

[31:36] Ilana Levine: And the Tony goes to is produced by Alan Seales for the Broadway Podcast Network. The music and lyrics for the theme song were written by Georgia Femusa. Theme song orchestration by Alexander Sage Oyen. Episodes are edited by Derek Gunther. Thank you to Parody Bill for the graphics. And please don't forget to go to the iTunes show page and rate and review the show. Thanks for listening. Excerpt from the Tony Awards used with permission of Tony Awards Productions.