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[0:00] Karen Olivo: This is Karen Olivo, and you are listening to And the Tony Goes To...

[0:22] Ilana Levine: Have you ever dreamed of winning a Tony Award? Did you ever practice your Tony acceptance speech in the bathroom mirror? Did you grow up watching the Tony Awards every year? Do you have a collection of Tony Award shows on VHS tape that you refuse to throw out? Well then this is the podcast for you. Every week I interview your favorite Tony Award winners, and together we go down memory lane as my guests share intimate and never before shared details about their Tony experience. By the end of every episode you're going to feel like you just won a Tony. Welcome to And the Tony Goes To... I'm your host Ilana Levine. Welcome today's Tony winner, Karen Olivo.

[1:06] Ilana Levine: The Tony Award goes to Karen Olivo, West Side Story.

[1:16] Karen Olivo: Oh my god, I'm completely unprepared for this. I just, I have to say thank you Arthur for believing in me and giving me confidence when I never had confidence. My husband, who's amazing, and I can't do anything without. The amazing cast, Josefina Scaglione, you make it so easy to be Anita, and George Akram, thank you. Thank you for carrying me around the stage night after night. Oh my god, I just want to dedicate this to everyone who has a dream, and a lot of people said I couldn't do this, and I think that if you stick with it and you surround yourself with people who love you, you can do anything. I'm sorry. Thank you.

[2:07] Ilana Levine: Karen. Hello. So I guess we buried the lead. You won.

[2:15] Karen Olivo: I did.

[2:26] Ilana Levine: Have you heard that speech since that night?

[2:27] Karen Olivo: I have, yeah. I've heard it actually quite a few times because it's a part of a documentary that I've been working on.

[2:34] Ilana Levine: Oh, so can you take us back, if you will, to the moment that you heard your name called, and just share whatever memories you can of that moment and what happened next?

[2:41] Karen Olivo: Well, I remember that day. I mean, the day of the Tony telecast is such an exhausting day. You've gone through all the campaigning, and you've shown up so early in the morning to do a full dress and basically record a safety of the telecast in case something happens during the nighttime telecast. And so I was really tired. Right. And the only thing that I had really thought about the entire evening, knowing that I'd been nominated, that was sort of in the back of my mind. But the thing that I was the most worried about was dancing. We did Dance at the Gym on that stage right before my category had come up. And the stage at Radio City is notoriously known for being slippery. It's kind of like an ice rink.

And so I thought the entire day, I would probably fall and eat it. And by the time it got around to my category, and I had just finished our performance, I was just so relieved. Like almost all of the adrenaline and the worry over the evening had already dissipated because the one thing that I was sure that I would fail at had passed and I had, you know, I'd passed with flying colors. And so when they announced my name, it really was a moment of, Oh, what? Oh, right. This is happening, too.

[4:17] Ilana Levine: So did you have to change out of the costume you were wearing? How did you get from performance to looking so friggin gorgeous in your seat when they called your name?

[4:24] Karen Olivo: That would be my dresser. And I had two dressers that night. Suli was my dresser, and I think there was someone else. I think it was a hair and makeup person who had come to help. It might have been Scotty. I'm not sure. But yeah, you know, it's weird. I had changed in and out of being Anita. Let's see, there would probably have been like six or seven times that day. You think about it, you go there, you're in your garb, you do your thing. Yeah, you change out, you go to the theater, you do your show, you come back, you have to come in as you know, the glamorous Karen, when you walk the carpet, and you sit in your seat. And then you have to run backstage, we were in the opening number. So then I was I turned into Anita.

And then I got out of my Anita garb to sit back in my seat. And then we had the performance. So then I had to go back, change into Anita, do the dance of the gym performance, and then rush back into my fancy Karen to be sitting in my seat for my category. And lots of quick changes.

[5:36] Ilana Levine: Yeah, why not? Why not add to it? Well, let's just celebrate all the dressers and all the people behind the scenes who make it happen. Make it look so effortless and seamless. God bless them.

[5:49] Ilana Levine: Do you remember what you were thinking or anything about walking from your seat to the podium?

[5:57] Karen Olivo: Ah, I was really sort of down on myself for not having come up with a speech. I really was like, you made a mistake. You made a mistake. That's what I kept thinking. You've made a mistake, Karen.

[6:13] Ilana Levine: So Karen, when you say you were saying it was, it's a mistake. What, like, everything about life up until that moment, coming to the Tonys? What do you mean exactly?

[6:27] Karen Olivo: I was, I was thinking you've made a mistake in the same way that you usually make mistakes, Karen, which is you did not fully prepare for the moment. And this may cost you. Let's just see what happens.

[6:40] Ilana Levine: So it was related at that moment.

[6:41] Karen Olivo: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's definitely speech related. And also, it's weird. I, I do remember walking up to the stage. And I remember someone putting out their hand to help me. Maybe it was Will or I can't remember who it was. It was someone that was sitting over to the left. And I remember not like, not rejecting them, but sort of being like, no, I got it.

[7:14] Ilana Levine: Right. That's so you.

[7:17] Karen Olivo: But I mean, now in retrospect, I'm like, no, that's the thing that they're supposed to do. Like a woman walks to the stage and one of these ridiculously long gowns and heels that's, you know, designed to make them trip and fall. You know, if you're close by, you offer them a hand. But I remember being like, no, no, no, no, no. Because I was sort of gathering my courage to sort of figure out what I was going to say.

[7:36] Ilana Levine: Well, it came to you. And it remains one of the most moving Tony speeches in history. And when you hear it now, knowing that you had sort of been beating yourself up that you hadn't been more prepared. How do you feel when you hear it in terms of its authenticity and its emotion and its availability to the truth of the moment?

[8:03] Karen Olivo: I mean, I think that there are a couple of things about this. I don't recognize that person as the person that I am now. I don't. I feel like, you know, there's a drips of unworthiness. Which makes perfect sense, knowing where I was in my life during that time. I do know that I sort of retreated from being present because it was too big for me. You know, you work for these things your entire career and people tell you like, oh, yeah, you got to go, you know, hopefully you'll win the Tony. And then it actually happens. It's dropped in your lap. And then you realize that you don't have any context for the moment. And so I felt like I sort of, like I evaporated, like the most, the person driving the train sort of like took their hands off the wheels and sort of like pulled back and something else took over because I couldn't really process what was happening.

And I guess, you know, when I listened to it, I'm like, who? When did you decide to say that? It just sort of it came from a pretty organic place, but I don't necessarily think that it I think it was sort of it came from a fearful place, I think. And an honest, you know, in that moment, I was definitely in a shaky place in my life. So I think it's probably the most realistic version of someone in front of what I would say, what millions of people, right, right. Watching this really vulnerable thing happen to someone publicly.

[10:01] Ilana Levine: Well, the thing that you talk about in your speech is Arthur Laurents. And, you know, in our conversations in the past, and in times that I've heard you talk about the show, you talk a lot about the confidence that you found working with him. And I don't know if you mean just as a human or as an artist, specifically playing Anita. But I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the connection to this director, the process of getting this part that landed you the Tony that makes you Tony award winning Karen Olivo for the rest of your life. What comes to mind when I asked you that?

[10:37] Karen Olivo: Well, I had such an interesting relationship with Arthur, I loved him so dearly. And it was not, I guess, anyone who's worked who had worked with Arthur would know it was a, it was tricky to be close to him. And there was something about his demeanor that, that I understood like his, he could be

[11:06] Karen Olivo: Really rough. And I, you know, coming from a very rough background, it was almost like we spoke the same language. And so I think he noticed that in me too, because, you know, to play Anita, you're supposed to be like a triple threat. You're supposed to be like one of the most amazing dancers on Broadway to do Jerome Robbins' choreography. And then, you know, the singing is obviously, you must be a very skilled singer. And then the acting is kind of like on the back end. If you can act, that's great. And I always thought of myself as an actor first and then a singer and then a dancer. And so I walked into being Anita already sort of feeling like I was going to have to make up a lot of room for these things that I felt like I was lacking.

And Arthur was keen to that. He knew that the dancing was going to make me feel less than. At the time, I was not surrounded by a great support system in that department, other than there was an associate, Lori Warner, who did everything that she could to make sure that I could feel like a confident woman of color on that stage. And I wish I would have thanked her. But Arthur was so keen. He could see the weakness in me. And I think, you know, if you read a lot about Arthur, Arthur could be pretty tactical. And rather than watch me fail because of this lack of confidence in this area, he decided that he would sort of bolster me in all other areas. So there was a lot of positive reinforcement when I saw people around me not getting positive reinforcement.

And that created a little bit of a weird relationship with him and I, because I want everyone to be on the same page. I don't want to be the lead, and I don't want you to treat other people that would be considered a chorus beneath me. I want us all to get the same sort of treatment. And it became this weird thing between him and I. But at the end of the day, it really was sort of his focus on building me up that got me out on stage nightly. And, you know, our relationship closer to the end sort of fell apart. And that was sad. But I do I mean, to this day, I when I speak his name, I do feel a lump in my throat because he really was quite a force for me. Did you when you were told this role was happening, you know, as actors start hearing about things, shows coming up and and castings going on, was Anita when you heard that they would be casting Anita, and that they were really trying to focus on this being a much more of a Spanish language version of the show?

What was your reaction? Was it something you threw your hat in the ring for? Were you too, like scared of it? How did it all come to be the part you auditioned for and got? I remember feeling sorry for the person who got the role. That's like the first thing when I heard they were going to do it. Like, no, no, like, God, let's light a candle for that girl, because it's going to be tough. And I remember being asked to audition multiple times and me saying no, because I just knew what it was. I mean, I, the one of the first women of color that I identified with was Rita Moreno in that movie. And, and that, it holds so much weight. It holds so much weight for, for women, obviously women of color, for that show, you have to be I mean, basically, in essence, it's like the nurse in Romeo and Juliet, you know, you have to be able to, to really hold down, you're not in a whole lot, but the things that you have, your material in that show, they have to be home runs every single time you step out on stage. And you don't have a lot of stage time to make up for things that you mess up. So, you know, the deck is truly stacked against the person playing Anita. And you were doing In the Heights at the time.

[15:27] Karen Olivo: I was, we had just won the Tony. We were like, yeah, it was, it was our summer after winning the Tony. And we were like, this thing that we never thought would happen. And we were all so in love with each other and such a huge tight knit family. And I mean, I, you know, it was, to this day, one of the best jobs I'll ever have. So I was not looking to leave.

[15:57] Ilana Levine: So no, no, no one wanted you to leave ever. We all wish that show were still on. So Lin Manuel Miranda did the translation of the lyrics into Spanish or was one of the people who translated the lyrics. And you're working with him at the time. So are you having behind the scenes conversations with him? Are you saying, you know, they're asking me to come in, but I don't want to and he's saying what?

[16:24] Karen Olivo: Well, Lin was in my callback. Like he was behind the table sitting next to Arthur.

[16:31] Ilana Levine: Was that awkward or great?

[16:31] Karen Olivo: Yeah, no, it was, it was, it was weird and comforting at the same time, because we both, it was bittersweet. It was like, you know, you know, you got to do something, but you don't want to or like, it was like, it was a relationship that we saw that could possibly end and we were like, no, but we really like what's going on here. He knew more about my situation with that show than I did, obviously, because I think he even sent me maybe a screenshot of a note that Jeffrey Seller and he were passing back and forth during my callback.

[17:09] Ilana Levine: What did it say?

[17:09] Karen Olivo: Well, I know, I think there were something like 35 women that they saw that day during the final callback. And they had stacked me in the deck. They had basically like, they were priming me because they wanted me to be Anita. I was like the only person that Arthur had not seen. And they were sure that if he saw me, he would like me, I guess. So they had been really instrumental in like putting me in an order. And one of the things that I guess they had noticed is that if Arthur was not interested in someone, he didn't get up from the table. But if he was, if they had piqued his interest, he would get up and sort of scuttle over to them and give them direction. And in my audition, he stood up, walked over to me multiple times.

And the note that Jeffrey passed to Lynn said something to the effect of if he gets up one more time, we're going to lose her or that means that he wants her. And so he, Jeffrey was obviously like priming Lynn to like deal with it. Like this might be happening. Yeah, she's not going to be in our show. And then I walked out of that audition and Lynn knew and I did not know. And you know, when I think back that we had a show that night. So when we did the show that night, I remember him being weird towards me. And of course, because I am who I am, I was like, oh, I guess I wasn't good. Maybe I embarrassed him in there. But I had actually booked the job. So that was probably like on a Thursday and my, or maybe it was like on a Tuesday. And my last show at In the Heights was Sunday.

[18:49] Ilana Levine: Oh my God.

[18:49] Karen Olivo: Yeah. So it turned, the turnaround was pretty immediate. It, it, it gave us no time to process, which is probably good because, you know, I left on a Sunday and then Monday morning I started West Side Story.

[19:00] Ilana Levine: Do you remember your first day when everyone gathered?

[19:04] Karen Olivo: Yes. I actually asked Lynn because I was petrified. I said, you know, you're part of the creative team. Will you please just come and stand in the back of the room? Just so I can have a friendly face. And he was like, of course, of course I'll stay, you know, after they do the coffee and the bagels and everything. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and the, you know, everyone introduces themselves. And so he came and, you know, like the person that he is, he stood back there. And, uh, I remember at one point I was like standing, oh no, I was sitting in the back row. Of course, if you know anything about me, like I'm like sitting in the back row of everything, like trying to hide myself. And he walked up when he was about to leave and he like whispered in my ear, he's like, are you good? And I'm like, I'm good. And he's like, all right, I'm going to leave now. And I was like, cool. Thank you for coming. And then that was it. And then I was off.

[19:52] Ilana Levine: Wow. And what's so amazing for me to hear is when you talk about you were feeling like dancing might've been your weakest link in terms of the trifecta of things you need for Anita. And then I think back to that performance, um, and, and your dancing is so extraordinary. It sounds to me like not only did you play catch up, you, you're someone who like was suddenly at the Olympics, uh, of dancing. And so were you just doing like, were you after school every day, people are going home and you're just working on it and working on it and working on it?

[20:31] Karen Olivo: I was before school. So I would do like, I would do Pilates before rehearsal and a bar. I would have, I had private Pilates and private bar. Um, and, uh, I was told by someone that I would need to, I would be surrounded. Their words were, you will be surrounded by the best dancers you've ever seen. And you will have to work twice as hard just to look mediocre next to them. And so I thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Right. Yeah. Welcome to the dance world. Um, but I walked in knowing that it was going to be uphill for me. So, uh, yeah, there was a lot of extra training and then the gods, they really blessed me by giving me the woman, Lori Werner, who was the associate choreographer who was this fantastic.

She was actually one of, um, you know, the diamonds and pearls princes, uh, like famed video. Yeah. She was, I think she might've been pearls. You know, there was a two women. Yeah. She's like this like old school, like ridiculous dancer. She's one of the best dancers I've ever seen to this day. Um, she was with me at every step. She literally would take me through, uh, some of the dance moves and she would put her hand on the leg that needed to hold the weight to like, cause you know, when you're not a dancer and you're just like a mover, sometimes weight distribution is the thing that will get you every time. Like you don't understand where you're supposed to, like how you're supposed to balance, how to be on your leg. And she would like move my body with her hands to show me, this is what it means.

[22:13] Karen Olivo: And so I had like, I had an arsenal of people helping me trying to get me towards the finish line.

[22:20] Ilana Levine: And what was your relationship to the cast, the other principals?

[22:27] Karen Olivo: It was pretty wonderful. I mean, some of them are my closest friends to this day. It's weird. We all had so much work to do that there was a lot of like seeing them out of the corner of my eye and knowing that we were all rushing towards the same goal. But there wasn't a lot of downtime, you know? Not to mention, there's a huge division between the cast based on, you know, what gang you're in.

[23:00] Ilana Levine: Right. So that's what I wanted to ask. When there is friction between people in a play, obviously, the more you love each other, the easier it is to sort of do that without walking home bruised, wounded and defensive every day. So I wondered, was there anything that Arthur did? I mean, he's such an old school director, and he comes from such another generation of how he would work on things. But was there an attempt to create a family before kind of ripping that family into two parts? Or was that not really a concern of the creative team when you were building the show?

[23:38] Karen Olivo: It's hard to remember. I do remember one of the things that he had always sort of harped on was that this was a story about love. It wasn't really about differences. And just and I know this had, you know, this particular incarnation of the show was a dream that he had, his former partner, Tom, had had about like, having a multi, a bilingual version of West Side Story. And so I think that he sort of had this, he was sort of bringing this gift to Tom in some way. So there was a lot of talking about you fight because you love. This hate is because you fear that the thing that you love will go. I think that that helped because it was a really stressful time for a lot of us. And I think that that really is one of the reasons that I became so close with a lot of the people, especially the Jets.

I mean, it's weird, you know, Anita and the Jet gang have that really horrible scene in the second act, the taunt or the rape. And I, to this day, think of those guys, and I only swell with pride. And my heart is warmed just by thinking of them. So yeah, I mean, I think that the idea that this was about love and not necessarily about our differences, it sort of set the tone.

[25:12] Ilana Levine: And what about Sondheim and his relationship to the process of putting your show together? You also made a cast recording. Was he around at all? And a part of any of the process of any of those things?

[25:18] Karen Olivo: Oh, gosh, this is so funny. So I had one interaction with Sondheim, and it was in the recording. And there was a lyric that had been sort of altered in our rehearsal, and no one had really changed it or caught me up on it. And it was something that you could say either way, and it made perfect sense, but one had another meaning. And I remember we had done America once or twice, and he came into the booth, and he said, you know, this is the way that lyric is supposed to be read. And I said, oh, okay, I just, you know, I've only been doing that because, you know, Arthur had said this, that, and the other, and so I'll definitely do it that way. And in that moment, he was like, we'll just do it this way.

And I had had conversations with Arthur so many times about Stephen and Sondheim. And he would say, oh, yeah, we're not friends. We don't like each other. And in that split second, in which Stephen was like, no, do it my way, I was like, oh, this is not about anything other than Arthur. Truthfully, I could say it either way, and no one would really know. But right now, you're trying to stick it to Arthur. And I am so glad that I'm a part of this moment.

[26:56] Ilana Levine: You're part of theater history in the making. Tell me what, when you think about Anita, this part that, you know, you saw, I assume you saw the movie when you were a kid.

[27:02] Karen Olivo: Yeah, yeah, it was a little thing. And you remember that?

[27:08] Karen Olivo: Oh, yeah, it's, yeah, it's burned into my memory. So what a heady thing, right, to take on this part that, you know, you see yourself as a little girl portrayed on celluloid on a huge screen. You know, this kind of representation, and she's just so incredible in the movie. Do you just take that with you and put it in your pocket and then just go to work? Were you able to, if it's burned in your memory, like, what do you do with it when you're then going to work on it?

[27:44] Karen Olivo: Well, I mean, this is yet another wonderful moment where Lori Werner, our associate choreographer, helped me through that. I remember having a conversation with her saying, there's no possible way, like, I know this. And I know what it means to me. And how can I possibly reimagine and re-embody this for a completely different generation? And her words were, you know, when you love something, and you revere it, and it's up on the mantle, you can, you can have all of those feelings about it. But when it becomes yours, you must take it off the mantle. And you have to sort of break it and you have to make it anew. And I was like, Okay, and she's like, that doesn't mean that you disregard what you know and you love about it, you hold that, and you let that be the inspiration for your new version. But you have to break it, it cannot be bigger than you or else you'll never be able to do this.

[28:37] Ilana Levine: Right? I would imagine she came to see the show.

[28:42] Karen Olivo: Oh, yeah, she was with us the entire time.

[28:45] Ilana Levine: And so did you guys have conversations?

[28:49] Karen Olivo: You know, Lori was a very interesting woman. She was not very emotional, and very, she definitely gave you notes, but she was always like a little sort of, I don't want to say cold, but she had like this sort of standoffish sort of demeanor because she needed to keep, she was an empath, and she needed to sort of keep her distance. But I could tell when she was out in the audience, I could feel her, you know, and she always built me up. She was never, you know, she was always sort of rooting for us and pushing us to be better in all of the good ways and none of the bad ways.

[29:31] Ilana Levine: And what about Chita Rivera? Did she come?

[29:38] Karen Olivo: She did? Yeah, she came and they were very nice to me. And they didn't tell me the night that she was coming. There's actually, there are many photos of her coming. And the look on my face is one of horror. She actually at one point while they were taking pictures of us, she grabbed my face and she said, fix your face. Because it looked like I hated her. But you know, if you know me, if I am like shocked, or if I am enamored with something, it looks like I'm smelling garbage. That's just my face. My face just does that. And I was so blown away by the fact that she had just seen the show. And that moment was over and I could let go of it. But yeah, I know I was. I was not the same. Sometimes I have those pictures and I look at them and I laugh hysterically because it looks like I hate her. And I can't, you know, I mean, of course, I don't hate her. But I was just so overwhelmed by her presence.

[30:32] Ilana Levine: I can imagine. I mean, what a thing when like reality and fantasy crash in that way.

[30:38] Karen Olivo: Oh, yeah, an extraordinary thing. So if you think about Anita, can you describe what that role means to you?

[30:46] Karen Olivo: Yeah, I mean, I feel like Anita is a trailblazer. I felt like she was like, she's truly the immigrant story. Coming from another place, deciding that she was going to put roots down, fight to better her family, do whatever she needed to do to keep her family together and safe. Yeah, I mean, had I known that our country would take the turn that it did, you know, I guess I could have used a lot of that. But yeah, she's a quintessential immigrant story, a woman fighting to keep everyone together.

[31:38] Ilana Levine: All right. Before we go, I have a couple of questions. It's like a rapid fire round of questions.

[31:46] Karen Olivo: All right. Favorite.

[31:46] Ilana Levine: Okay. I know. I know. We love games. My heart starts beating fast just asking the question. Do you remember who handed you your Tony?

[32:01] Karen Olivo: John Stamos.

[32:01] Ilana Levine: Do you remember who you brought to the Tonys?

[32:01] Karen Olivo: My ex-husband.

[32:11] Ilana Levine: Do you remember who made your dress?

[32:11] Karen Olivo: Madonna, Karen.

[32:18] Ilana Levine: And where is your Tony today?

[32:18] Karen Olivo: It is currently in my New York apartment. It's about to be in a box on my way back to me in Madison, Wisconsin.

[32:24] Ilana Levine: Well, I wish I could be in a box on my way back to you in Madison, Wisconsin. That would make me really happy. Karen Olivo, thank you so much, Tony winner and extraordinary human. And thank you for sharing your Tony story.

[32:36] Karen Olivo: Oh, absolutely. So good to spend time with you.

[32:43] Ilana Levine: And the Tony goes to is produced by Alan Seales for the Broadway Podcast Network. The music and lyrics for the theme song were written by Georgia Famosa. Theme song orchestration by Alexander Sage Oyen. Episodes are edited by Derek Gunther. Thank you to Parody Bill for the graphics. And please don't forget to go to the iTunes show page and rate and review the show. Thanks for listening. And the Tony goes to my special guest.

[33:14] Ilana Levine: Excerpt from the Tony Awards used with permission of Tony Awards Productions.