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[0:00] Paul Lazarus: Hi, this is Paul Lazarus. In the 1980s, I produced and hosted a radio series called Anything Goes, a celebration of the American musical theater. Now the Broadway Podcast Network is bringing back these shows. Starting our second season, this is the first of a three-part program featuring legendary composer Cy Coleman. In September of 1980, Cy came to my apartment in Manhattan and discussed everything from his collaboration with Bob Fosse to working with Lucille Ball.

[1:05] ♪ Musical number: "If My Friends Could See Me Now" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[1:52] Paul Lazarus: Good afternoon, and welcome to Anything Goes. Today, a look at the career of composer Cy Coleman. You'll be listening to a pre-recorded interview with Mr. Coleman and selections from as many Broadway scores, including his current smash hit, Barnum. You'll even hear a song from Mr. Coleman's musical-in-progress, Atlantic City. I'm Paul Lazarus. Join me for the next hour and a half on Anything Goes with my guest, theater composer, Cy Coleman.

[2:22] ♪ Musical number: "If My Friends Could See Me Now" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[3:41] Paul Lazarus: So you made your pianistic debut at Town Hall when you were six, and most people hadn't even touched a piano by that age, let alone making their debut. I was just curious, what had happened before that so that you were all ready to do a debut at six at Town Hall?

[3:57] Cy Coleman: Well, what happened before that was usual breastfeeding and all that sort of thing. I think that what did happen was just purely accidental. I mean, I didn't come from a musical family, quote, quote. And my mother was very interested in real estate, and she owned two tenement houses, and we lived in one of them.

[4:17] This was in the city, right? In the city, right, New York City, in the Bronx. What had happened is that somebody had not paid, I suppose, and they took off. I don't know exactly what the circumstances were, but evidently they couldn't get the piano out. And we moved the piano downstairs. I mean, it's kind of, it's almost as if Neil Simon had written this, but he hadn't. And it was moved into our apartment, and I became immediately fascinated with the piano. Now, unbeknownst to everybody, myself included, I had what is known as perfect pitch. Now, I don't know how that contributed to my musicality, because there are a lot of people walking around with perfect pitch that don't know it. But this was a happy set of circumstances for me, because I would pick up things from the radio, and I would transfer them to the piano, and I discovered this little toy, and it started to fascinate me, so I started working at it a lot. So much so that my father, who was a carpenter, nailed the piano shut. However, though, being the son of a carpenter, I opened it.

[5:24] Paul Lazarus: How old are you at this point?

[5:26] Cy Coleman: Oh, I was about four or five, around there. And it was the milkman who sent over his son's piano teacher and made a deal with my mother. I told you my mother was a businesswoman. I think we got two free lessons for one that we paid for, and that sounded like a good deal, so I was on my way.

[5:56] Cy Coleman: You make advances, oh no, under normal circumstances I'd go, but oh, those fingers in my hair, that sly come hither stare, that strips my conscience bare, it's witchcraft.

[6:14] And I've got no defense for it, the heat is too intense for it, but good would common sense for it do, cause it's witchcraft, wicked witchcraft, and although I know it's strictly taboo, when you arouse a need in me, my heart says yes indeed in me, proceed with what you're leading me to.

[6:44] It's such an ancient pitch, but one I'd never switch, for there's no nicer witch than you.

[7:15] Cause it's witchcraft, wicked witchcraft, and although I know it's strictly taboo, when you arouse a need in me, my heart says yes indeed in me, proceed with what you're leading me to.

[7:36] It's such an ancient pitch, but one I'd never switch, for there's no nicer witch than you.

[8:07] Paul Lazarus: You're listening to Anything Goes, today a look at the career of composer Cy Coleman. After winning many prizes as a child prodigy, Cy studied classically for a long time at the New York College of Music and with Adele Marcus. After deciding not to become a concert pianist, primarily because he wanted to compose and perform his own material, Cy gained national prominence, playing jazz piano in clubs across the country.

[8:31] As many composers begin their theatre careers, he first contributed songs to reviews, John Mary Anderson's Almanac in 1953, and the Ziegfeld Follies of 1957. Then he hooked up with lyricist Carolyn Lee.

[8:46] Paul Lazarus: Tell me about how you did meet Carolyn Lee, because that's really your first major collaborator.

[8:50] Cy Coleman: Well, let me see, there was a place, speaking about Tin Pan Alley, Tin Pan Alley was generally known as the Brill Building, and there was a place that had hamburgers and hot dogs downstairs called The Turf.

[9:07] Oh no.

[9:10] Cy Coleman: And I went down to The Turf one day, I don't know if it was Joe McCarthy who I went with, and I got to know some of the people around. And Carolyn was there, and she was riding around, and we talked, and she said, I don't remember who said it, I might have said it, or she might have said it to me, you know, why don't we write something together.

[9:33] I mean, this is like one of those old movies, you know.

[9:36] Paul Lazarus: Yeah.

[9:38] Cy Coleman: And I said, sure, and we went upstairs to a publisher's office and we wrote a song called A Moment of Madness. We finished it in a day, and...

[9:48] Paul Lazarus: So you went upstairs and wrote a song that day.

[9:50] Cy Coleman: That day, A Moment of Madness, that's all this affair was. You looked up and there was a kiss to be claimed.

[9:58] Paul Lazarus: Oh my.

[9:59] Cy Coleman: And we wrote that, and we played it, George Paxton, who was a band leader but was a publisher at the time, had a publishing firm, and we played it for him, and they heard the song and they said, that's a great song, I think Sammy Davis is coming up for a date. And we said, wonderful, and so we wrote, we gave him the song, we signed the contract.

[10:25] Cy Coleman: And within a week we had a record of Sammy Davis singing "A Moment of Madness." So we decided this was a really great event, I mean our meeting, we'd try it again. And we wrote a song called "In Pursuit of Happiness." And "In Pursuit of Happiness" was recorded by Louis Armstrong. And so we were having some good luck with this thing. Of course, it was a different music industry.

[10:58] ♪ Musical number: "A Moment of Madness" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[12:21] Paul Lazarus: Composer Cy Coleman at the piano, performing the very first song that he wrote with lyricist Carolyn Leigh. You're listening to Anything Goes with guest composer Cy Coleman today. Now back to a pre-recorded interview.

[12:35] Cy Coleman: Carolyn and I had a very rocky time of it. We were very different personalities. When we got along, we got along very well. When we didn't get along, all hell broke loose. And I tried it for a couple of years and we got ourselves an agent to get shows. And the agent was Abe Newborn. And Abe Newborn was terrific. I mean, Abe really manipulated. We wrote scores. We wrote an audition score for Gypsy. And he would play one against the other. We wrote a few scores and we had several shows and we were playing for various producers. So we played between Fuhrer and Martin and David and Merrick and whoever the producers were. There were about four or five of them. And he made a little demand for us. And finally, it got to a point where he got us a huge advance and we hadn't done any shows.

So we played for Fuhrer and Martin who signed us to do a show called Skyscraper which we never got a book for. Which later on, yeah. Later on it came along. They got a book for it. But in the interim while we were waiting for Skyscraper to come along Michael Kidd called us up. And Michael Kidd was directing and producing a show with Lucille Ball. And I believe he had some other writers. And somehow they had a falling out. And they called us up and they said, would you do it? So you did Wildcat and they did Skyscraper. Would we do it with Lucille Ball who was just coming off of her big television show. And this was going to be her Broadway debut in a sense. So that was it. That's how Carolyn and I started with Wildcat.

[14:24] Paul Lazarus: Writing for Lucille Ball, what kind of experience was that?

[14:28] Cy Coleman: We couldn't find the opening song. Writing for Lucille Ball you have to write within the limitations and the talent of the person. When you're writing for Lucille Ball you write for what Lucille Ball can do. And our first meeting we had a bunch of songs and we nearly threw out "Hey Look Me Over" because we didn't think that it was kind of sophisticated enough for us. We played for her that day and I didn't realize that Lucille Ball would be frightened. I mean here we were just young in the theater and the idea of Lucille Ball being frightened I thought what has she got to be frightened of? She's successful. I mean as if that was the reason she's got a reason to be frightened. So vying for who was going to be more frightened.

But anyway she came up to E.H. Morris and Company and we played the songs for her and she said mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yes, mm-hmm, yes and that's all I would get out of it, we didn't know. And then we got to "Hey Look Me Over" she said I can sing that. I said well thank God we left it in. So she got up to the piano and we got locked. I said I don't know if you've ever got locked in a stare with somebody. And we didn't know how to break it. And it just went on and on and on and finally I said well let's start. And when we finished the song she sang the song and she said let's not ever do that again. She said my eyeballs hurt. I said so do mine. She said well I'm glad that's over. I was just panicked to death to come up here and sing for you. I said you were panicked. I was ecstatic. I said we're going to stop all that nonsense. So we became good friends then.

[16:07] ♪ Musical number: "Hey Look Me Over" — performed by Lucille Ball ♪

[18:51] Cy Coleman: And we all love that show. Bob Fosse loves the show. He told me some of his best choreographies in that show. Neil will say some of his best lines and he loves that show. Carolyn Leigh and I myself love the show too. So I mean we're all in love with that show. I hope that means it's going to come back at some point. I assume. I tell you this is a show that every year everybody says they're going to do a production of. I mean when it was sold to the movies Joe Levine was taking out a double page ad and it was coming. Sort of it's turned out to be waiting for the Messiah. Swen Swenson sang a song called "I've Got Your Number" which I particularly like.

[19:31] Paul Lazarus: Can you set that up how it occurs in the show?

[19:33] Cy Coleman: It happens in the show when Musgrove, I think it was Musgrove wants to take her away and he decides to seduce her. And the way he did it, and this was Bob Fosse's concoction, I think it was the first male strip on stage without taking off. He didn't get nude. And he didn't get anywhere near nude. But he did a very seductive bump and grind strip and he removed the garters from his arms, you know the things that were holding up his sleeves and threw them at her. And it was a pure seduction. Very, very sexy number. And Swen stopped the show every night called I've never seen something so consistent. I mean there was not any time that he did not stop the show. He went to England and recreated it and stopped the show every night there. I mean the audience just loved it. And the idea was that he does seduce her and she becomes pregnant.

[20:33] ♪ Musical number: "I've Got Your Number" — performed by Swen Swenson ♪

[20:50] ♪ Musical number: "I've Got Your Number" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[23:08] Cy Coleman: Sid Caesar played practically all the male roles in that show. All the lovers and husbands. And do you remember anything standing out particularly in his performances? Let me see. There were so many wonderful things. He went from Noble Eggleston, who was the richest boy in town and the handsomest. And he went to Harvard and Yale. He was going to be a doctor or lawyer. To take off on a tyrannical Hollywood director. Oh God, there was a Romanian prince, I think. Did it all. And sad sack. And he sang a very touching version of "Real Live Girl" as the sad sack. Which I believe is almost cut from the score.

[24:02] Cy Coleman: Yes, it was cut from the score originally. Much to my chagrin. I always claimed it was a conspiracy. You know, you get paranoid. Why was it cut? I mean, I can't even imagine. Right in the beginning, it was cut. Because everybody has different theories about him. I think the theory was that a ballad wouldn't work. And what happened, the show was going along beautifully. And at the end of the first act, we had a number called "Don't You Fret, Lafayette, We Are Here." Everything happened in that number. Sid Caesar was on stage carrying on. There were cannons rolling off. And we were in wartime and Belle Poitrine was there with her troop to help the boys. You know, her troop was really kind of call girls.

You know, they're all coming to help the boys. But it was a very noble experiment for her. And she did it very nobly. And somehow the number was falling flat. And we didn't know why. The audience seemed to like the number. And it was a clever number. But it was not really, we were not getting the response at the end of the first act. And it was concerning. We had big meetings about it and big fights about it. So what happened is that finally, Bob Fosse said, well, listen, why don't I try to take, you know, let's dig up that number that we cut, "Real Live Girl." Let me see if I can do something with that. And I said, well, that would be wonderful. And he did this. Instead of having a loud ending to Act One, he took it and he gave us a soft ending and a beautiful male ballet of the soldiers.

And as it turned out, that was, we waited, by the way, breathlessly that night to see what would happen. The audience just went absolutely bananas. And that remained. And that's how it remained in the show. And I mean, analyzing it later, you know, and figuring out why. I had figured out that the reason that it worked at that time was the audience was so besieged with gags and numbers. And it was such a wildly entertaining show that we never gave them a chance to catch their breath. And at the end of the first act, it gave them not only a chance to watch a beautiful ballet that Bob had done, and with a song that they obviously liked. And it was beautifully done on stage, but it also gave them a chance to really realize everything that they had seen. You see? To assimilate everything. So I believe that's one of the reasons that it worked as well as it did.

[26:49] ♪ Musical number: "Real Live Girl" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[30:04] Cy Coleman: From the original Broadway cast recording of "Little Me," you heard "Real Live Girl," closing of the first act, written by lyricist Carolyn Leigh. And my guest today on "Anything Goes," composer Cy Coleman.

[30:32] Cy Coleman: You've been listening to Cy Coleman, part one, the first of a three-part series. Associate producer Jeff Lunden. "Anything Goes: Backstage with Broadway's Best" is produced and hosted by Paul Lazarus. For more information, visit anythinggoespl.com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and follow us. Thanks for listening.

[31:07] Cy Coleman: Bye.