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[0:00] Paul Lazarus: Hi, this is Paul Lazarus. In the 1980s, I produced and hosted a radio series called Anything Goes, a celebration of the American musical theater. Now the Broadway Podcast Network is bringing back these shows. This is the third and final episode of a three-part program featuring legendary composer Cy Coleman. In 1980, Cy came to my apartment in Manhattan and discussed everything from his collaboration with Comden and Green to working with Jim Dale on Barnum.

[0:37] Cy Coleman: On the 20th Century, you ran away with all the awards in 1978.

[0:39] Paul Lazarus: Well, five.

[0:45] Cy Coleman: Well, just five, yeah. But this is the first time, I think, that you teamed up with Betty Comden and Adolph Green.

[0:50] Paul Lazarus: We had flirted for a while, but, you know, it's one of those flirtations that came to pass, and happily so. They're wonderful people, and they're very talented, and I enjoy working with them.

[0:57] Cy Coleman: How is working with Hal Prince as a director?

[0:59] Paul Lazarus: Well, I mean, when you're working with the top, you know, that's it. I mean, I've been fortunate. You know, when I say the top, I include the tops that I've worked with. I've been fortunate. I've worked with Bob Fosse, who is the top in his own way, and Gene Sacks, and Hal Prince. I mean, you're talking about geniuses in their field. I mean, it's wonderful. Hal is energetic. He's dynamic. You know, he's an inspiring director. He's a man that you can feel the sense of electricity the minute, you know, you're with him. Some people are intimidated by that. I have my own sense of electricity, too. I like it. I find it very inspiring. Hal's a terrific guy to work with. I envy anybody who does.

[1:44] Cy Coleman: Do you ever feel like they made such a big ballyhoo about the sets? Did you ever feel you were competing against the sets in that show?

[1:51] Paul Lazarus: No. My, my. I thought that Hal, along with Robin Wagner, who did that, because, you know, your director is in with that, I thought they did a remarkable job. Number one, I mean, we started off with a minus. We were doing a musical on a train. Now, how do you do that? How do you dance? How do you sing? And how do you do that in those confined quarters? And that concept was pure genius. We had some choreography, but not a lot of choreography. And that was specific, because the choreography was the scenery. I mean, Hal was choreographing the scenery. And it was as if writing in which he's not. I was writing, that was a choreographic piece, but it was, you know, things moving in and out. They were just, it's wonderful to watch this kind of thing. It was a very, you know, modern kind of concept. I thought it was excellent.

[2:41] Cy Coleman: How did you approach this score? Because for some reason, this score to me stands out as markedly different from...

[2:46] Paul Lazarus: Oh, it is.

[2:48] Cy Coleman: It is. Can you tell me about that? Because it seems like it was, I mean, it's definitely, obviously a conscious choice, but I'd be curious to know about that.

[2:54] Paul Lazarus: Obviously what?

[2:55] Cy Coleman: A conscious choice, but...

[2:56] Paul Lazarus: Oh, yes, yes. I like, no, conscious choice is always, you can't make anything but a conscious choice.

[3:01] Cy Coleman: Exactly. But the process you went through for this show seems a bit different, though.

[3:05] Paul Lazarus: We were looking for a property to do together. Betty Compton and Alf Green and myself. And we watched so many screenings, it was just, you know, I was starting to get bleary. And we went back to 20th, and I said to them, and I was sort of holding back on 20th. I said, I don't want to do a 30 score. I said, I know the critics might expect it, and I know that they might like it, and I can do an original 30s Busby Berkeley kind of score. I just don't want to. It's not exciting. And when we came back to it, and I said it again, I brought it up again. I said, well, let me think. And we were sitting around, and I came up with this comic opera style. And need I say, I was fascinated with it. I wrote I Rise Again first, and then from then on, the game was on.

And it was a wonderful game, and I enjoyed writing that. And it was out in Southampton at this time. And it was a little room that I had down in my house, and it was just fantastic. I mean, we were just going from one of these things. And the idea was to keep it interesting all the time, because maybe, you know, I thought it was possible that the style might wear a little thin. But to my opinion, it never did wear thin, and I stuck consistently with it. And Betty and Adolph and I were all in on the game. And of course, they're quite comic opera too, you know. So it became a real collaboration on the comic opera. And I used to ad-lib a lot in this score, you know what I mean? I'd just go off extemporaneously.

And they would get to know, because they did so many things that would just fit right in, that we used to go around with cassette machines. And everything, they would say, hold it, hold it. And the cassette machines would go on, and we'd have our three cassette machines going.

[5:23] ♪ Musical number: "On the Twentieth Century" — performed by the original cast of On the Twentieth Century ♪

[7:38] Paul Lazarus: The original cast of On the Twentieth Century, performing the title song, the song with lyrics by Betty Comden and Adolph Green, and music by Cy Coleman. I asked Cy why he felt his next musical, Home Again, Home Again, was not as big a success as most of his shows, and in fact closed out of town before coming to New York.

[7:59] Cy Coleman: I think Home Again, Home Again was an idea which just didn't have the right breaks. I mean, we were tossed in, the producers didn't have enough money at one time, and it came in with a lot of odds against it. The original idea was to base it on Russell Baker's columns, just to have him write? Americana. It was a takeoff on America, and it was a very good takeoff on America, and there's a lot good. It got a little confused sometimes in its purpose, but there's a big show there, and I intend to do it again. I intend to do it in a small version. Russell Baker, as soon as Russell Baker finishes writing his, this book that he's writing, and we're all excited about it again, we know what's there, and you know what's heartbreaking? You know, that was my first show that ever closed like that, but what it was, was heartbreaking about it, is that to leave a show that's playing, and the audience is howling with laughter.

[9:06] Paul Lazarus: Yeah.

[9:10] Cy Coleman: So the timing was off. The producers couldn't raise the money too late. They had given up on it too early. My feeling is this, that when you've got something, and you've seen it work, and you've seen the stuff that works, and the stuff that works really works fantastically well, I'll just have to thank those producers for giving me a wonderful workshop, because we're going to do it again. Tell me about the song a little bit. Maybe the song that we're going to do.

[9:28] Paul Lazarus: Well, the song is actually not the stuff that I'm talking about. It's looking back on it, and the reason that I feel that it's okay to do it is because Bea Arthur, who fell in love with the song up there, asked me for permission to do it on her special, and we allowed it, and she did a remarkable job of it, and it's called One Man's Luck about the world. This is The Way I See It.

[9:54] ♪ Musical number: "The Way I See It" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[10:27] ♪ Musical number: "The Way I See It" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[12:47] Paul Lazarus: Cy Coleman at the piano performing a song he wrote for a show entitled Home Again, Home Again. The song, "The Way I See It," with lyrics by Barbara Fried. And that recording was made exclusively for this look at Mr. Coleman's career on Anything Goes. Now back to a pre-recorded interview with composer Cy Coleman. Last show I thought we'd talk about today, well, is your current show.

[13:07] Cy Coleman: Barnum, sure.

[13:13] Paul Lazarus: And as we're discussing it today, it's doing better than 100% at the box office, which is pretty phenomenal. It's also getting remarkable advances. Probably going to run forever.

[13:25] Cy Coleman: I think, well, I hope so, and it's a joyous, you talk about joyous and happy, it's a joyous happy show. We've had comments, there was a girl sitting next, I sent some people in there, she was across the aisle and she was just hysterically just carrying on about the show, and it'd been her 13th time. And we had a record signing little thing over at Corvettes, you know, we had the album out, and the album itself has gotten that same kind of joyous reception. So I mean, so now I've got the album over there and people carrying six albums at a time to be signed. Barnum has really hit people at something that they want to see, want to hear, and it's making them feel good. Everybody's walking out of that theater feeling good, and that's really what it's about.

It's a joyous show, exuberant performers, it's got all the ingredients. I mean, the Michael, you know, Michael Stewart and my collaboration I think worked very well on this. Mark Bramble's book, I mean, it's a really, it's a great concept, bringing in the circus and everything else the way we did. And of course, all I can tell you is that what you've read about Jim Dale is absolutely true. I mean, you've seen it.

[14:44] Paul Lazarus: Oh yes, I know.

[14:49] Cy Coleman: Well, then you know. I mean, and Jim is terrific, and it's a wonderful cast of kids there. I mean, they're just terrific. Glenn Close, by the way, is remarkable. She's such a good actress, and of course, and Marion Tatum was a fine, and then Terry White, you know, and Leonard Crawford. These are all wonderful kids, and Bill Witter, and they're all enthusiastic, and the circus skills, and the singing and dancing that they all do is remarkable on the stage. And Joe Layton, let's not forget what Joe Layton, you know, we started off with I Love My Wife, but we certainly came in with a bang up job here, and well, he didn't do I Love My Wife in the eventual, but as you know, but his job in Barnum is a remarkable job.

[15:29] Paul Lazarus: It is.

[15:31] Cy Coleman: But I've got to give everybody credit in Barnum that's gone, but I'm not to take away from Joe's job. Joe did one of the most remarkable jobs, and probably that I've ever seen on Broadway. We've got our record out, and we're all excited about that. I produced that with a fellow called Mike Burnick. I told you I like to be in the recording studio, and Columbia Records is really going way out on it, so they're enthusiastic about it, and in a sense, I hope, this is a sort of a breakthrough, we're selling albums, and I hope we continue to sell albums, so that not only for because of any sense of greed or anything like that, I would just like to see cast albums come back again to their rightful place, and they've been denigrated, so in the recording industry, and now that Columbia is solidly behind this, and the public seems to be buying this, it might lead the way for some of the other companies, and for everybody to have less of a backward look, let's say, at cast albums, because I think there is an audience out there. There obviously is one they're buying. Somebody's buying it.

[16:34] Paul Lazarus: Did they ever get you on the tightrope?

[16:37] Cy Coleman: No, I'm not in any shape for that. I mean, it's enough now getting me on a tennis court.

[18:19] ♪ Musical number: "Come Follow The Band" — performed by Jim Dale and the original cast of Barnum ♪

[20:28] Paul Lazarus: Tony Award winner Jim Dale, leading the original cast of Barnum in "Come Follow the Band," a song written by Michael Stewart and Cy Coleman. You're listening to Anything Goes. Now back to a pre-recorded interview with my guest today, Cy Coleman. Can you tell me a little bit about the show coming up, Atlantic City?

[20:50] Cy Coleman: The only thing I can tell you about that, I don't want to give too much away about it, is that it's different.

[20:55] Cy Coleman: That it's different. Yeah, it's different than any other show I've done. It's highly contemporary. It's a very, very interesting show with a lot to say.

[21:08] Paul Lazarus: Does it go back in time in Atlantic City or is it about Atlantic City today?

[21:13] Cy Coleman: How about both? Okay, you're being secretive so I won't press it. Well, I don't, you know, I'm not, as I tell you, I'm not secretive about these things but except shows, you know, and it's being formed and molded right now and you can just push it like a gelatin, you know, like the gelatin. It goes a little more in this direction, a little more in that direction. So it would not be fair of me to describe it right now when it may not end up as the show. It will basically end up as the show.

[21:44] Paul Lazarus: Who is the team?

[21:46] Cy Coleman: At the moment? Yeah. At the moment it's Bob Fosse, Christopher Gore and myself.

[21:50] Paul Lazarus: Is Christopher Gore doing both book and lyrics?

[21:54] Cy Coleman: Well, that's what we're talking about. We're piecing it together. That has to do a lot with the style. I see. The three of us are working very much in that. I asked Sy if he would play a song from the as yet unproduced score to Atlantic City which is planning to be produced in the near future with direction by Bob Fosse, lyrics by Christopher Gore and music by Sy Coleman and Sy agreed and this is a ballad from the show On The Day You Leave Me.

[22:31] ♪ Musical number: "On the Day You Leave Me" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[25:54] Cy Coleman: One thing that I find a through line through all your music is that you more than anyone else I've ever talked to have an amazing ability at writing very, very happy songs. I don't know how to describe it any better than that, but upbeat songs that really make you smile and really pick you up. I mean, and a particularly good example of that is "Hey There Good Times" from I Love My Wife. You can't help but listen to that song and be lifted by it. There's absolutely no way and it just seems to be something that runs through your career. I don't know how to ask you about that. But do you feel that reflects anything about yourself probably?

[26:32] Cy Coleman: And there are people who are down personalities, people who are up personalities. I think I'm a positive personality. I'm not a—I don't operate on the level of, "Oh, it ain't gonna work." You know, this is, you know, and knowing it's gonna work, you know. Everybody says, you know, there are two ways, you know, the actor goes gets on stage. One is the one walks into the spotlight and one backs in. And you know, I'm not that kind, you know, I'm very out front sometimes too much. So, you know, but I guess it has its virtues and it's, uh, it's faults, you know. But I do, I'm, uh, very open and I'm very positive about most things. So as a result of that, I do think that it's probably easier for me to express myself that way.

I'm not inhibited expressing myself that way. So I guess that's the way it comes out. You can't do a happy song and be inhibited. I mean, you would notice the inhibitions? I mean, not that I don't have inhibitions, but I mean they come out in other things, you know what I mean? But, uh, I don't like to limit myself to happy songs because I like dark and murky things too, you know, but, uh, I should think that, uh, music is a language, you know, I don't mean like any other language and it reflects what I want to say.

[28:06] ♪ Musical number: "Hey There Good Times" — performed by Cy Coleman ♪

[30:41] Paul Lazarus: You've been listening to Cy Coleman, part three, the conclusion of a three-part series. Associate producer Jeff Lunden. Anything Goes: Backstage with Broadway's Best is produced and hosted by Paul Lazarus. For more information, visit anythinggoespl.com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and follow us. Thanks for listening.