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[0:00] Paul Lazarus: Hi, this is Paul Lazarus. In the 1980s, I produced and hosted a radio series called Anything Goes, a celebration of the American musical theater. Now the Broadway Podcast Network is bringing back these shows. Today, the conclusion of a three-part look at the career of legendary composer-lyricist Stephen Schwartz. Schwartz is best known for his amazing scores for Godspell, Pippin, Working, and Wicked. This program was originally broadcast in 1980, long before Wicked had even been conceived.

[1:05] ♪ Musical number: "Chanson" — performed by Terry Ralston ♪

[4:29] Paul Lazarus: Back to a pre-recorded interview with Stephen Schwartz.

[4:30] Stephen Schwartz: Do you like these gifts as much as I do?

[4:32] Paul Lazarus: Gifts of love?

[4:32] Stephen Schwartz: Yeah, I like them. It went through an awful lot of changes, but I've always liked the melody pretty well. It was originally conceived as a duet and more of a number about the contrast between how both people felt about one another.

[4:49] Paul Lazarus: Right. That last section does that.

[4:55] Stephen Schwartz: The last section does it more. The whole song had done it before, but I still like it.

[5:00] Paul Lazarus: Darling, I have to start the bread for tomorrow. Would you like to light the oven?

[5:03] Stephen Schwartz: Not now, Imab. It's been a long day. I'm tired.

[5:17] Paul Lazarus: Now couldn't I stay to light the oven? How could it have hurt me?

[5:25] Stephen Schwartz: And couldn't I go to have a drink? No, up to my room I slink, and heaven forbid I light the oven.

[5:34] Paul Lazarus: Give him his little net, when all he does is put such love in everything he does for me.

[5:43] Stephen Schwartz: Everything he does for me becomes almost a gift.

[5:56] Paul Lazarus: A fresh-picked rose beside my bed, the coffee pot there, pot there.

[6:14] Stephen Schwartz: When I raise my head, each day the first thing that I see is little gifts of love for me.

[6:34] Paul Lazarus: When days were cold, when nights were rough, I thought his small ways, all the ways, ought to be enough.

[6:50] Stephen Schwartz: So now why can't I gratefully accept his gifts of love for me?

[7:11] Paul Lazarus: Oh, it's time I start to think, time I start to learn, time I gave him something in return.

[7:24] Stephen Schwartz: I'll share his bed, I'll bear his touch, to seem more sunny, funny, shouldn't hurt too much.

[7:40] Paul Lazarus: To force a smile is not so grim, and they'll be gifts, he'll think they're gifts, they'll seem like gifts of love to him.

[8:10] Stephen Schwartz: I'll save my dreams, so who needs dreams, for when I sleep they've all come to me.

[8:41] Paul Lazarus: And spend the waking, caring, making, sharing, promises I keep, making all I do, I'll do the best I'm worthy of.

[8:55] Stephen Schwartz: And call them gifts, he'll think they're gifts, to him they'll seem like gifts of love.

[9:25] Paul Lazarus: I'll share his bed, I'll bear his touch, to seem more sunny, funny, shouldn't hurt too much.

[9:56] Stephen Schwartz: To force a smile is not so grim, and they'll be gifts, he'll think they're gifts, they'll seem like gifts, they'll seem like gifts of love.

[10:08] Paul Lazarus: When I was a girl I had a favourite story, of the meadowlark who lived where the rivers wind.

[10:31] ♪ Musical number: "Meadowlark" — performed by Stephen Schwartz ♪

[15:14] Stephen Schwartz: What are you going to do? I'm going to try and do movies. I've been doing a lot of pop songs. I might try and do a book. I might try and do some serious music. See if anybody will hire me to do something other than shows. If I can make a living at that, great. If not, I'll have to open a Sichuan restaurant or something. That's okay, too. This is a pop song that I've done recently. I've been writing music for pop songs since I really don't know how to do pop lyrics with a series of lyricists. This is a song with lyrics by Dean Pitchford, who is now doing very well as a lyricist, but was in fact at one time in both Godspell and Pippin. It's called "Cry Without a Reason."

[16:56] ♪ Musical number: "Cry Without a Reason" — performed by Stephen Schwartz ♪

[21:03] ♪ Musical number: "Father and Sons" — performed by Stephen Schwartz ♪

[25:07] Stephen Schwartz: I feel that they are genuinely trying to do good work and I don't always like everything that they do, but I feel that that is not a venal collaboration and that there is more going on there, and somehow or other they manage to succeed in getting people to support what they're doing rather than to constantly snipe at them. But they stand very alone and I really feel that a Broadway theater is going to have to be made of more than Steve Sondheim and revivals. In the end, it can't all be about the next big success and the next big hit, and everyone's so anxious to find a trend and no one really seems to be worried about what's on the stage anymore. All they really care about, as I said, is if it's successful or not.

It's a really weird thing. I'm thinking back to the things that we've said in this conversation and I realize that a lot of times I think I've contradicted myself where I've said one thing and then said another, but I really think that all these things are true. At least they're true in my perception. Look, if tomorrow there was no such thing as theater, it wouldn't matter to anybody. You're not talking about a cure for cancer here, folks, or a new energy form or something like that. You're talking about entertainment, something which is very, very meaningless, and if people aren't entertained by going to the theater, then they're going to be entertained by listening to records and they're going to be entertained by playing tennis or they're going to be entertained by doing a lot of other things, and it's just not that important. So all it can be is fun and satisfying to you to do it, and if it stops being that, then there's no reason to do it.

[27:15] ♪ Musical number: "All Good Gifts" — performed by Stephen Schwartz ♪

[30:51] Paul Lazarus: You've been listening to the conclusion of a three-part series devoted to legendary Broadway composer lyricist Stephen Schwartz. Anything Goes, Backstage with Broadway's Best, is produced and hosted by Paul Lazarus. For more information, visit anythinggospl.com. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and follow us. Thanks for listening.