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[0:01] Judy Gold: Hi, I'm Judy Gold.

[0:03] Terry Hu: I'm Terry Hu. You're listening to Around the Sun. This is Season 3, Episode 3. Snow Bunnies.

[0:11] Judy Gold: Around the Sun.

[0:12] Terry Hu: Around the Sun.

[0:23] Narrator: A new moon rises, pulling buds through broken snow. Each blossom, unique.

[0:31] Narrator: Season's Greetings, Snow Bunnies. If you haven't registered for the annual Mother Daughter Escape, this is your last chance.

[0:40] Sound of locker room door opening.

[0:45] Sound of footsteps.

[0:53] Judy Gold: Oh, there she is.

[0:55] Terry Hu: Mom.

[0:57] Judy Gold: Sorry. Oh, there you are.

[1:00] Judy Gold: I feel like a fool.

[1:02] Terry Hu: Well, you look beautiful.

[1:05] Judy Gold: Where's Bebe?

[1:06] Terry Hu: Not here.

[1:08] Judy Gold: It's pink.

[1:09] Terry Hu: It's couture.

[1:11] Judy Gold: It's overkill.

[1:12] Terry Hu: They're the same suits we wore last year.

[1:15] Judy Gold: Only so Bebe could see us. Why isn't Bebe here?

[1:18] Terry Hu: Give it time.

[1:20] Judy Gold: I don't remember these suits being so matchy-matchy.

[1:23] Terry Hu: It's supposed to be matchy-matchy. It's the Mother Daughter Skate. It's tradition. Like holidays on the mountain.

[1:32] Judy Gold: I thought I donated all my pink last summer.

[1:35] Terry Hu: I hid the snowsuits in the basement. We only wore them once last year.

[1:40] Judy Gold: We can slip in one more Mother Daughter Skate, as long as it still fits you.

[1:45] Terry Hu: I don't fit.

[1:47] Judy Gold: Oh, please. Do you know how many girls would kill for a couture snowsuit?

[1:51] Terry Hu: I'm out of place.

[1:53] Judy Gold: There's lots of older girls on the ice.

[1:56] Terry Hu: You know that's not what I mean.

[1:58] Judy Gold: Alright. Fine.

[2:00] Judy Gold: I know you've been stocking up on schmottes and army fatigues from the Goodwill.

[2:05] Terry Hu: And that's nice enough for everyday purposes with your friends back home.

[2:09] Judy Gold: Yes, it took some adjustment at first.

[2:12] Terry Hu: My daughter plays rugby.

[2:14] Judy Gold: Whoever heard of such a thing?

[2:16] Terry Hu: But I spoke to my girlfriends about it, and we agreed that experimentation is normal.

[2:22] Judy Gold: Healthy, even.

[2:24] Terry Hu: I'm not looking for their endorsement.

[2:26] Judy Gold: But we're far away from home right now.

[2:28] Terry Hu: No one knows us in these mountains, so let's just stick to the local norms.

[2:33] Judy Gold: Besides, you can't just wear couture once in your life and then throw it away.

[2:38] Terry Hu: For all people, you should know that.

[2:40] Judy Gold: You're always talking about privilege.

[2:43] Terry Hu: And?

[2:44] Judy Gold: And this is your privilege. Own it.

[2:48] Terry Hu: You get to wear something that was made just for you.

[2:51] Judy Gold: Boo-hoo.

[2:52] Terry Hu: Yeah, probably in some third-world sweatshop.

[2:55] Judy Gold: Probably.

[2:57] Terry Hu: And that's all the more reason you can't just donate it for textile.

[3:01] Judy Gold: That would be like spitting in the faces of all those sweatshop people.

[3:04] Terry Hu: Mom.

[3:05] Judy Gold: Now, if Aunt Grace and her holiday cheer skates in here, you better believe that she's gonna have a custom-made tutu or something.

[3:14] Terry Hu: So it could always be worse, Joyce.

[3:16] Judy Gold: Jay.

[3:17] Terry Hu: Jay.

[3:19] Judy Gold: I need BB.

[3:21] Terry Hu: Listen, can't we just have one more mother-daughter skate? Please?

[3:24] Judy Gold: While the suits still fit us?

[3:28] Terry Hu: And we're here on this mountain for potentially the last time?

[3:33] Judy Gold: Why would this be the last time?

[3:35] Terry Hu: I said potentially the last time.

[3:38] Judy Gold: Anything is possible.

[3:40] Terry Hu: Did something happen to BB?

[3:42] Judy Gold: Please, Jay. Things are just very hard right now.

[3:46] Judy Gold: My doctor is overseas.

[3:48] Judy Gold: I can't get my pellets until the new year.

[3:53] Judy Gold: I feel like I'm trapped in a sauna.

[3:55] Terry Hu: That's how I feel.

[3:57] Judy Gold: I want to be as supportive as I can with this stuff.

[4:00] Terry Hu: But I only know what I know.

[4:03] Judy Gold: Here's BB.

[4:05] Terry Hu: I have no reference point for this sort of thing.

[4:08] Judy Gold: BB's always here by now.

[4:10] Terry Hu: Homosexuals.

[4:11] Judy Gold: I understand.

[4:12] Terry Hu: They cut my hair.

[4:13] Judy Gold: They do my nails.

[4:14] Terry Hu: Oh, would you believe that Andrew and Kyle drive a pickup these days?

[4:19] Judy Gold: Really, Mom?

[4:20] Terry Hu: Yes!

[4:21] Judy Gold: Really!

[4:22] Terry Hu: They've come a long way, homosexuals.

[4:24] Judy Gold: Society has come a long way.

[4:26] Terry Hu: You haven't been around as long as I have.

[4:28] Judy Gold: You haven't seen what I have seen.

[4:31] Terry Hu: We've evolved so much in such a short amount of time.

[4:34] Judy Gold: And, Jay, it is all for the better.

[4:38] Terry Hu: But we all have our own process.

[4:40] Judy Gold: And you can't fault a person or jump down their throat just because they're not moving fast enough for you.

[4:47] Terry Hu: I'm trying really, really hard to keep pace with you here.

[4:51] Judy Gold: But I also have a responsibility to protect you.

[4:56] Terry Hu: What do you think your pellets do?

[4:59] Judy Gold: Excuse me?

[5:01] Terry Hu: My pellets are helping to preserve my womanhood.

[5:05] Judy Gold: Now, this is serious stuff, Jay.

[5:07] Judy Gold: One of the pickleball ladies I know, she knows a trans person who was killed inside a year after the surgery.

[5:15] Judy Gold: And another lady's neighbor, same thing.

[5:17] Judy Gold: Christine Jorgensen, the first American to have the procedure, dead at 62.

[5:23] Terry Hu: Do you see where I'm going with all this?

[5:25] Judy Gold: Yes, but it's misguided.

[5:27] Terry Hu: Misguided, mishmited.

[5:29] Judy Gold: It's a tough life, Jay.

[5:31] Judy Gold: That's all my girlfriends wanted you to know.

[5:34] Judy Gold: It's a tough life.

[5:36] Judy Gold: But I keep telling them, you've never asked for intervention.

[5:40] Judy Gold: You're just experimenting with the new look, right?

[5:44] Terry Hu: And we all agree that it's healthy to experiment.

[5:47] Judy Gold: And the best thing I can do is to be open and supportive.

[5:52] Judy Gold: And I'm doing that, aren't I, Jay?

[5:56] Terry Hu: While still providing a hint of normalcy.

[6:00] Judy Gold: Normalcy? What's that?

[6:02] Terry Hu: Structure.

[6:04] Judy Gold: Predictability.

[6:06] Terry Hu: The mother-daughter skate.

[6:09] Judy Gold: What time is BB coming?

[6:12] Terry Hu: Is it getting sultry in here?

[6:14] Judy Gold: It's an ice rink. When do we skate?

[6:17] Terry Hu: After I lace up.

[6:18] Judy Gold: Mom!

[6:19] Terry Hu: What?

[6:20] Judy Gold: What have you been doing this whole time?

[6:22] Terry Hu: I'm sorry, Jay.

[6:24] Judy Gold: I had to pay the entrance fee, rent the skates, put my own suit on, and say hello to some people I haven't seen in forever.

[6:33] Judy Gold: Parents happen to have to think about more than one thing at a time.

[6:37] Terry Hu: Then, of course, that nincompoop brother of mine had to call as if the walls weren't already closing in.

[6:42] Judy Gold: Spike?

[6:43] Terry Hu: That's the one.

[6:45] Judy Gold: What did Uncle Spike want?

[6:47] Terry Hu: Who knows? Conversations with Uncle Spike can be very mind-boggling.

[6:51] Judy Gold: What did he say?

[6:53] Terry Hu: He said, um, I don't know, something about BB being here in spirit.

[6:58] Judy Gold: BB's not coming?

[7:00] Terry Hu: I didn't say that.

[7:02] Judy Gold: BB always comes to the mother-child skate. Where is she?

[7:05] Terry Hu: Here in spirit. We'll talk more later.

[7:10] Judy Gold: So, I'm alone here.

[7:14] Terry Hu: Hey, what am I? Chopped liver? You giving up on me now?

[7:21] Judy Gold: It's not like BB to cancel, especially this year.

[7:24] Terry Hu: BB knew how important it was to be here before the skate.

[7:26] Judy Gold: Did Uncle Spike say why BB couldn't come?

[7:29] Terry Hu: Let's just get through our skate, Joycey, then we can talk about it.

[7:33] Judy Gold: Jay.

[7:34] Terry Hu: Jay. I'm sorry. I'm very sorry, Jay.

[7:39] Judy Gold: I just don't want you to hurt right now, and I'm feeling very, very heated.

[7:45] Terry Hu: But it does hurt.

[7:47] Judy Gold: What?

[7:48] Terry Hu: Sleeping myself down, putting ice on my chest at night, wearing this ridiculous snowsuit like I was some sort of circus freak.

[7:55] Judy Gold: It does hurt.

[7:56] Terry Hu: What are you trying to say?

[7:58] Judy Gold: I don't want to be the bearded lady.

[8:00] Terry Hu: I have no idea what you're talking about.

[8:03] Judy Gold: I don't want to do this.

[8:05] Terry Hu: We do it every year. It's the mother-daughter skate.

[8:08] Judy Gold: Let's do it one more time while we can. Please, please. It's tradition.

[8:14] Terry Hu: I want this to stop. I want things to change.

[8:17] Judy Gold: You're not making sense, sweetheart.

[8:19] Terry Hu: Maybe we should have grabbed some lunch on the way up after all.

[8:22] Judy Gold: I want to change, Mom. I don't want to live like this.

[8:24] Terry Hu: I want to change. I want to change.

[8:26] Judy Gold: Okay, okay. You want to change.

[8:29] Terry Hu: I want to change. I want to change.

[8:32] Judy Gold: Okay. What does that mean?

[8:35] Terry Hu: The injections, the surgery. I want to change.

[8:41] Judy Gold: You want to change.

[8:44] Terry Hu: I want to change. I don't want to do this anymore.

[8:48] Judy Gold: Do what?

[8:50] Terry Hu: All of it. None of it. The mother-daughter skate.

[8:53] Terry Hu: Phoebe was going to help me tell you before we put our suits on, but Phoebe's not here.

[8:59] Judy Gold: Something's off. Everything's off.

[9:07] Terry Hu: Phoebe died, honey.

[9:09] Judy Gold: I knew it.

[9:11] Terry Hu: I'm so, so sorry. I wanted to wait until after, but I thought we could make it through one more skate first.

[9:19] Judy Gold: What does it even matter now? Why are we even here?

[9:22] Terry Hu: Now I have no one.

[9:24] Judy Gold: Hey, I wanted to protect you.

[9:27] Terry Hu: I know you love Phoebe.

[9:29] Judy Gold: And of course, Phoebe, oh, she loved you.

[9:34] Judy Gold: But I'm here too, Jay.

[9:37] Terry Hu: Now, okay, I might not be as wise as Phoebe, but I'm trying. I am trying so hard to get there.

[9:45] Judy Gold: Really, I am.

[9:46] Terry Hu: I just thought we could slip in one more mother-daughter skate before it all changed.

[9:50] Judy Gold: Jay, you're not alone.

[9:58] Terry Hu: I'm here for you. Always.

[10:03] Judy Gold: Okay, snow bunnies.

[10:06] Narrator: It's the moment we've all been waiting for.

[10:09] Narrator: Everyone who is not registered for the mother-daughter skate, please leave behind, and everyone who is registered, this is your moment.

[10:21] Terry Hu: Christine Jorgensen wasn't murdered, you know.

[10:24] Judy Gold: Phoebe told me she was a World War II veteran.

[10:27] Terry Hu: She went to college.

[10:28] Judy Gold: She lived for almost 40 years after her confirmation surgery, and then she became a best-selling author.

[10:34] Judy Gold: And when she died, it was premature, but it was from disease, not violence.

[10:39] Judy Gold: She lived a full, productive life.

[10:41] Terry Hu: She loved, and she was loved, and she was free.

[10:45] Judy Gold: Is that what you want, sweetheart?

[10:48] Terry Hu: To be free?

[10:50] Judy Gold: That's what I want.

[10:51] Terry Hu: More than anything in the world, that's what I want.

[10:54] Judy Gold: To be free.

[10:57] Terry Hu: Then go take your snowsuit off.

[11:00] Judy Gold: Really?

[11:02] Terry Hu: Really.

[11:04] Judy Gold: Oh, I love you, Jay.

[11:06] Terry Hu: And I'm so sorry about Phoebe, but you'll always have me.

[11:10] Judy Gold: You need to know that.

[11:12] Terry Hu: You'll always have me.

[11:15] Judy Gold: I know.

[11:17] Terry Hu: And don't forget it.

[11:19] Judy Gold: You'll always have me.

[11:23] Terry Hu: And you'll always be my mom.

[11:26] Judy Gold: And you'll always have me.

[11:30] Narrator: Will Jay live a happy and full life? Will they love and be loved? Will Paula adapt, grow, and evolve with the changes around her, with or without her pellets? Yes, yes, and yes. Nevertheless, tune in next time for another very beautiful episode of Around the Sun.

[11:44] Narrator: Around the Sun is written and directed by Brad Forenza. For full credits and more content, please visit AroundTheSunPodcast.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and subscribe today. This episode also featured Betsy Winslow as the Bunny Queen.