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[0:00] Justin Guarini: It's just it's living in it as opposed to putting your spin on it commenting on it imposing on it. David Mamet says let the script do the work you have the fun. So if we just rely on the lines what the words were supposed to say it will do its job.

[0:17] Justin Guarini: Hi, welcome to the show. I'm Justin Guarini, an entertainment industry insider and veteran, and I have been operating on a national level as well as an international level for about 20 years now in Broadway, film, television, hosting, commercials, you name it. I have most likely done it or been around it and I created this podcast called Audition Secrets so that you could have a direct link to the wisdom and insight that I've gained over those past 20 years but also the stories, the heartbreaks, the victories and everything else in between of some of your most favorite and cherished people in the entertainment industry. I'm so lucky that I have access to some of the one-name folks, to some of the legends, as well as you my people, my fellow hard-working entertainers, actors, performers.

This is not all about me; I just wanted to invite on some really cool friends of mine and share some really great stories. I want you to be able to take bits and pieces of the show wisdom that you hear, behind the scenes things that we talk about, and I want you to use them to help you nail more auditions and book more jobs. I want you to ask me questions because I love to teach, I love to serve, and I want you to be able to take this podcast and to use it to help you get further in your career and to reach more of your goals. We got a great show for you today, so kick back, relax, and enjoy the show.

[2:08] Patti LuPone: I could totally hear you.

[2:10] Justin Guarini: Hi! Hi, Patti, how are you?

[2:12] Patti LuPone: I'm doing so very well. So how are you? How was your show in Philly?

[2:18] Patti LuPone: Oh, I had a ball. Yeah? Great time, yeah, we had a great time with a great audience and 16 members of the gay men's choir that sang with me the brotherly love and it was a wonderful audience, just really a very supportive and wonderful audience.

[2:33] Justin Guarini: That's good, that's good. I'm really glad to hear it. I'm sorry I missed it, but I'm glad that we're doing this. And I just got to say, just from the beginning, can you believe it was nine years ago that we worked together in Women on the Verge? And despite an all-star cast on the show, it wasn't actually a commercial success; it closed early, it was relatively ignored at the Tonys that year despite nominations including one for you in the best female actor in a musical category. And while it's super easy to point to all the success you've had, how do you deal with the heartache of putting your everything into a project that just doesn't land with the audiences or critics?

[3:20] Patti LuPone: Well, that happened again on Warpaint where it just didn't catch fire just like Women on the Verge didn't catch fire. It didn't have the same publicity behind it. I think everybody was anticipating Women on the Verge because of Pedro Almodóvar and the subject matter and Bart Lincoln Center Theater. That was a big disappointment. Women on the Verge, Warpaint was a big disappointment. What do you do? You can't do anything; you can just sort of chalk it up to another flop.

[3:45] Justin Guarini: Yeah, I mean, yeah, you really can't do anything. But you know, it's like we put our everything; it's like you can't do everything even though we put our everything into every show. And I know you for sure certainly do that. I don't know anybody who doesn't at this level anyway. But it's like you're what the audience and the critics don't see is all of the time spent, all of the falling in love with the material and the character and delving into that process. And yet we can do all of that and we can get a negative review. And I know you're not big on reviews and I'm not either; I don't like to read them particularly because I'm of the belief that you're never quite as good as they say you are and you're never quite as bad as they say you are.

But how do you deal with the critical review process knowing that every single time, whether it be Women on the Verge or Warpaint or whatever it is, that you're giving your everything on the stage and yet you're not in a sense beholden to the critics, but they do have a sway over how people perceive what it is the work that you do?

[5:02] Patti LuPone: Yeah, right. Well, first of all, to answer to what's found on that first question, the audience, you know, you have to give a show at least a month, and that's after previews. Even if you get bad reviews, you have to give the show a chance for word of mouth to take effect, and it's usually a month. And if you remember our audiences at the end of our run, remember how enthusiastic they were?

[5:21] Justin Guarini: Yeah, yeah.

[5:22] Patti LuPone: So, you know, if producers take the time and have the money to let a show find its audience, right, reviews don't matter. But because it's so much about money now, that critics, you know, the New York Times has been cutting shows since Moonchildren, Michael Weller's play.

[5:41] Justin Guarini: Right.

[5:48] Patti LuPone: And that is that you bring up a really good point is that especially now it's about money. But there was a time when you could have a flop as a writer, as a producer, and you could just do another show right after that. In terms of, you know, how things are now with it's all about money, how have you seen the industry change from when you started when things weren't necessarily so much about money to now when they are more financially focused?

[6:10] Patti LuPone: Oh, well, it's difficult because shows would close overnight. It depends. I don't think we have producers that love theater, and we have more producers that are interested in finding another Wicked, another Hamilton, right? And that's difficult. It's difficult; those things are once in a lifetime or twice in a lifetime.

[6:44] Justin Guarini: Yeah, for sure. I, you know, I have invested in a couple of shows, and some of the more successful people that I've spoken to, producers who have had those successes say, look, you know, before you go investing in a show, you might as well go to a casino because the odds are better, you know? And it's just, it is crazy how now it is so financially driven, and you can have like a thousand producers on one show, whereas in the past it might not necessarily have been that way. But going back to Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, you taught me one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned in my career, and I love to tell the story. I think I told this at your birthday party a few years ago.

We were having our first scene together in rehearsals in front of everyone in Women on the Verge, and I'm playing your son, and I'm nervous because it was you, and I really worked hard on the scene. And we began, and I start saying my lines, and you responded, and then I thought about what you said, said my line, and then you immediately responded. And then I thought even more about what you said, and I responded. And long story short, you had this flamenco fan in your hand, and halfway through the scene, I hear the sound of the fan unfurling. And while you're fanning yourself, you gave me this Blanche Dubois look, like your parent who's patiently waiting for me, her child, to learn how to tie his shoes.

And at the end of the scene, you said to me something I will never forget. You said, "Justin, you could drive a truck through this scene." And right after you gave me my testicles back, you gave me a lesson I still carry with me to this day about timing and keeping the ball in the air. So my question out of all of that, my question out of all of that is what is one of the greatest lessons you learned from one of the greats that you interacted with in your career?

[8:42] Patti LuPone: Jonathan Pryce taught me basically the exact same thing that I must have said to you. Yes, he said, "Get to the end of the line." I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Make your point." I had no idea that I was dawdling in the middle of a sentence, but he taught me to first of all find the point in the sentence and then make it, right? So that basically feeds up or puts urgency, for a better way to put it, puts urgency behind what you're saying, right? And that was, I mean, and that's at you as Evita.

[9:17] Justin Guarini: That's so amazing. And what I love is that, you know, I really, in terms of timing, like you helped me see that you never want the audience to get ahead of you.

[9:23] Patti LuPone: Right, right.

[9:24] Justin Guarini: Never. It kills the scene; it kills the momentum. And you're telling a story. A storyteller and a joke teller never allows an audience to get ahead of us. That's all we are, storytellers, right? Keep them on the edge of their seats. But we can't be so, I mean, actors are so slow on stage, and you just go, "Why? Why are you so slow? Is it self-indulgence? Why are you slow?" You know, you have to keep the story; you have to, as you just said, fall in the air.

[10:00] Patti LuPone: Yeah, yeah. I think when I first, when we first did that and I was in the scene with you, I really wanted to show that your words and the intentions behind what you were saying were having an effect on me. And I think that one of the things that I still carry with me is that there's acting on the line and, like you say, getting to the point, getting to the end of the line. And in essence, I think I said at one point, you know, I, through my experience of Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, I really learned that part of my job is to learn all the lines but, in essence, and I say this in quotes, forget them every single night so that I can rediscover what they mean in the moment.

[10:50] Patti LuPone: Right, exactly, right, exactly right. Yeah, it's just, it's just, it's living in it as opposed to putting your spin on it, commenting on it, imposing on it. David Mamet says let the script do the work; you have the fun. So if we just rely on the lines, what the words were supposed to say, it will do its job. We don't have to do it; say the line.

[11:10] Justin Guarini: That's great, that's great. That's such a great quote, to let the script do the work and you have the fun. Because at the end of the day, this is supposed to be fun, right? So in my book, Audition Secrets, I talk about my origin story, and that's the moment when my life was irrevocably altered by the moment I saw my first concert, my first Broadway show. What is your origin story, that moment when you knew that a life in the theater was what you wanted?

[11:34] Patti LuPone: I was four years old, and I was tap dancing, and I looked out at the audience, and I fell in love with them because I thought they were all in love with me. That's the truth, and I never looked back. I've never looked back.

[11:51] Justin Guarini: That's amazing. Four years old, you recognize that tap dance.

[11:54] Patti LuPone: Yeah, tap dancing away. And so speaking of tap dancing and doing that sort of work every single day, you started out just like everyone else, pounding the pavement and working your magic in the audition room. Do you have a vivid memory of an audition?

[12:09] Patti LuPone: Sorry, actually, I didn't. I went to Juilliard, and I handed a career.

[12:15] Justin Guarini: Wait, you weren't? I thought you—wait, but even before Juilliard, you had to audition, correct?

[12:22] Patti LuPone: Not that I didn't know this. I was out of high school a year before I went to Juilliard.

[12:29] Justin Guarini: You were out of high school? Let me explain what that means, right? I, you know, I went, I, I, when I was a kid, I used to cut classes and go to auditions in New York City in cattle calls. And I have auditioned, no question. But when I say I was handed my career, I had spent four years in the drama division of the Juilliard School, in the founding class of the drama division of the Juilliard School. Then John Houseman, who was the headmaster of the drama division, took our class and formed an acting company. Then I had four years on the road with the acting company, and I met David Mamet in our last year. And right after Juilliard, I started acting in Mamet's plays. And while, no, excuse me, right after the acting company, right after we left the acting company, I started acting in Mamet's plays, and then Evita happened. But I was forced to audition for that; I didn't want to audition for that.

[13:24] Patti LuPone: After that, there have been auditions, but not the same kind of pounding the pavement that most actors do, because I was blessed with John Hausman basically giving us the beginning of our career.

[13:42] Justin Guarini: That's amazing. But you still had to go through the ups and downs of...

[13:49] Patti LuPone: Not getting hired.

[13:50] Justin Guarini: Right. Not getting hired. I guess the point of my question is, because it's easy to point to the wonderful success and the longevity of your career, but what I want my listeners to see is that everybody started out in relatively the same place. Yes, you were cutting classes and going to cattle calls in New York. And yes, a year out of high school, you were the founding member of one of the programs at Juilliard, the acting program at Juilliard and that troupe. However, do you have a vivid memory during any of those cattle calls or any of those times when you were struggling to be hired of a horror story or a really funny, crazy moment?

[14:34] Patti LuPone: Oh, no. Oh, absolutely. While I was at the acting company, I auditioned for Rex.

[14:42] Justin Guarini: Really?

[14:43] Patti LuPone: It was Richard Rodgers' last musical. And we were on holiday. I think we were home in New York City. And my agent set me up for Rex. And I remember walking into the theater from the backstage and onto the stage. And I listened to this woman sing. I was listening to her in the wings and she was unbelievable. Then it was my turn. And I walked on stage. The first thing I saw was the bald head of Richard Rodgers. And then I gave the shittiest audition.

[15:22] Justin Guarini: Right for the man himself.

[15:24] Patti LuPone: Well, it was Ed Sheeran who was directing and Richard Rodgers. I said, I will never, ever watch another audition again because I was blown out of the water. I can't remember her name. I can't remember. I've seen her since. I don't know the woman, but I told her, your audition for Rex was so amazing that when I followed you, I just blew it totally. I was humiliated. You know what I mean? Because I'm not good in audition situations anyway. I don't think any of us are. We don't go in there going, I got this nailed. It's terrifying. But this was really bad.

[16:04] Justin Guarini: And so what was the response that you got from Richard Rodgers as well as the director?

[16:13] Patti LuPone: Oh, less than nothing.

[16:15] Justin Guarini: Was it a next situation?

[16:18] Patti LuPone: It was, I think so. I think it was sort of, I remember Ed Sheeran came down to the edge of the stage and I don't remember what he said because I was terrified. You know, I have so much fun talking to guests about their stories and the ups and downs of their careers, but I actually want to hear from you. And specifically, I would love to hear your audition horror story. You know, we've all got them. I certainly do. A lot of the people that I talk to do, but I want to hear from you. So there's two easy ways for you to share your story, not only with me, but with the people that you're auditioning for. So I'm going to ask you to not only with me, but with all the other listeners, you can go to auditionsecrets.com, hit the button that says, ask me a question and leave me a voice memo with your story.

And I would love to play that on the air for everyone to hear. Or if you feel like you work better by clacky clacking things out, you can email me at justin at auditionsecrets.com. And I would love to read your story. I want to share in the joy, the laughter, the pain, the misery, and everything in between. We've all got those stories and I want to hear yours and share it with all of my listeners. So go to auditionsecrets.com or email me at justin at auditionsecrets.com.

[17:44] Patti LuPone: You said that you were forced to audition for Evita. You didn't want to audition for it. You had been in the acting company. You had been in this amazing program in Juilliard. Why did you?

[17:58] Patti LuPone: I wasn't forced into the audition. I didn't want to play the part. There's a difference. I listened to the album. I hated the music. I did not want to audition for it. But when I say I was forced to audition, I didn't want to play the part. That's where it started. So why did you do it?

[18:04] Patti LuPone: Because I was told to by my boyfriend at the time, Paul Gemignani, and I was told that I needed to audition. And I just followed their direction. But I heard the music, the concept album, and I really didn't like the music at all. When you grow up on Julie Stein and Rodgers and Hammerstein, that music was alien.

[18:40] Justin Guarini: Sure.

[18:41] Patti LuPone: And it was a rock opera. I didn't even call it an opera. I just thought, it was dissonance. I just thought the music was trash. I was so not into it.

[18:54] Justin Guarini: You know, that's so interesting, because that is one of the iconic roles that you're known for. And I found myself in the same exact situation. I do a commercial on the air for Diet Dr. Pepper as this little ridiculous character, and I've been doing it for five years now. And I was the same way. I had just come off of a nine-month tour on Broadway of Wicked, and my body was aching. And my agent called me up and said, hey, we have this little thing. And I read the description, and I was like, this is stupid. I don't look anything like what they're asking me to do. Like this little rock god. I'm like, when you think rock and roll, I'm like the last person you would think of when it comes to rock and roll.

And so I was like, and they badgered me. They badgered me into going into that audition. And I went into the audition, and I'm interested to see if you felt the same way. I went into that audition not giving a shit. In the sense of how we always give a shit when we walk into the audition, and we're uptight, and we can make diamonds out of coal. I went in like, okay, I'm just going to play. I'm just going to do whatever. And it ended up being one of the best auditions of my life.

[20:07] Patti LuPone: So backtracking to Evita, how did you walk into that room? You hate the concept album. You don't want to be doing it. Your boyfriend has basically badgered you into being there. You walk into the room. What are you feeling? What are you thinking?

[20:23] Patti LuPone: Exactly what you said. I think that must be the key to getting a part, not giving a shit.

[20:28] Justin Guarini: It probably is, because you show more of yourself. You're not limited by fear.

[20:34] Patti LuPone: Absolutely. I don't want to say don't care, but there's an authenticity that comes from not caring when you just walk in the room, and you're willing to... I don't even think it's willing to fail. I think you're just willing to just be completely and utterly yourself. And so that certainly helped me, and it obviously helped you, because you got the part. And so speaking of someone, a character like Evita, you have always presented as a strong, empowered woman in this business, long before that natural way of being was widely accepted as a natural way of being. How has being a woman, especially being one as strong and unflinching as you are, how has being a woman in this business changed from when you started until now? And has it really changed?

[21:27] Patti LuPone: See, I don't know how I have this image of a strong, unflinching woman. I think it's probably because of the role of Evita, because before that I was with the acting company, and I was doing a variety of different roles, and none of them were strong, unflinching women. It was Duval in The Time of Your Life, it was Rosamund in The Robber Bridegroom, it was Evita Prozorov in The Three Sisters. None of them are strong, unflinching women. But I think in order to accomplish that role and what the role represented, I got a reputation as a strong, unflinching woman, which hasn't always served to my benefit. I have to say that I am outspoken, but that's who I've been my entire life. I see an injustice or I don't understand something, I ask the question, or I speak up, but that's always been who I was as a very young child, as a teenager, always getting in trouble for always asking the question.

[22:51] Justin Guarini: Has it changed? No.

[22:55] Patti LuPone: Well, that's interesting. That's why I said, has it really changed? Because there's the Me Too movement, there's all these wonderful awakenings that are happening in the general cultural, I don't want to say zeitgeist, but just in our minds, but really at the essence. Because when you started, we would like to think so vastly different. In your estimation, it hasn't really, at its heart, being a woman in this business, the experience of being a woman in this business hasn't really changed?

[23:28] Patti LuPone: Well, I think that there's more women that are empowered. I think more women are, and I wish more women would do that, that they're not cowed by men, that they're strong, they're independent. I would like to see more female directors, more directing, and more female composers and playwrights getting the right. But how we are treated by men, it's a long way to go.

[24:04] Justin Guarini: Of course, of course. Even though you have been labeled with that strong female ethos, let's just say, and that might not necessarily be who you are at your essence. In all my interactions with you, I have known you to, yes, answer the question, and yes, stand up for injustice. But it's so funny when people say, well, what was it like working with Patti? I'm like, oh my God, she's the most lovely, sweet, wonderful person in the world. And I was just reading an article today about an actor who was doing scenes with you in Pose, and she said the same exact thing. I know you're filming this week in New York, so I'll have two more questions for you before we wrap it up. James Corden, in his opening number for The Tonys, highlighted the fact that streaming platforms like Netflix, as well as network shows, are all the rage, but there'll never be anything that comes close to the live theatrical experience. In your estimation, why is theater so vital?

[25:05] Patti LuPone: Because it's live. Because it's live, because it's sort of instant. You know what I mean? Anything can happen because it's a dangerous place. You know what I mean? You go in there, and you want to suspend your disbelief, and anything. And there's a distance in television, and there's a distance between the screen and the audience and the actor. But it's very intimate and dangerous when it's live. I think it's just electric.

[25:38] Justin Guarini: Oh, it's absolutely thrilling. And that leads me to a follow-up question to that. What is the most, I don't want to say dangerous, maybe physically dangerous, but what has been, in your memory, one of the most dangerous moments on stage where you either completely went into the white room, or where you messed something up and had to, in that moment, cover and continue telling the story?

[25:49] Patti LuPone: I haven't had one. But in the acting company, when we were doing Love's Way Was Lost, we had a jug set that looked like, when you open up a fairy tale book, a scene will pop up. That was what the scenery looked like. They were big flats. And so it kind of looked like a fairy tale. And the men from the bar were standing and doing a scene. And they just happened to take two steps to the right, and a 20-foot flat dropped flat. It would have flattened the guy. It would have injured them. I've never gone, and I've never, we all just, one of the actors went, trouble in the bar. I mean, literally, flat, just, I don't know.

[27:20] Patti LuPone: Know exactly what it was. I was 18 years old and I was playing in "All My Sons," and I left the stage and I went to Mars. I blacked out. It's just the scariest thing. You leave your body. I'm trying to think where else I forgot a line. I'm trying to remember. Because it's generally in plays, because musicals go by too fast, you know?

[27:49] Justin Guarini: Sure.

[27:49] Patti LuPone: In musicals, you can hide behind the music or say there are places where you might be able to hide, but a play you have nowhere to go.

[27:56] Justin Guarini: Yeah, no way to go.

[27:58] Patti LuPone: I'm trying to... just it's frightening. It's... and then you can't stop talking about it, right?

[28:04] Justin Guarini: Right?

[28:05] Patti LuPone: Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. I can't believe I just... Oh my god.

[28:10] Justin Guarini: Yeah, but it's also kind of thrilling because I love those moments. A, because it kind of shows you what you're really made of, and B, because when you get through them—and inevitably every actor, I mean a lot of the people that I work with, a lot of my students, a lot of people that I work with haven't quite made it to Broadway yet and are terrified of those sort of moments happening. And I say, look, you know, this is normal. I could be doing a show for like six, seven months, and then all of a sudden, for no apparent reason, I cannot think of what it is I'm supposed to say or where I'm supposed to go. I enter the white room. Fortunately, I have these people around me who vaguely know what it is that I'm supposed to say, and that helps me out. But yeah, it's this terrifying moment that happens at any and every level of your career.

[29:01] Justin Guarini: Okay, so I have one last question for you. If there was a piece of advice or wisdom that you could go back and give your younger working actor pre-star self, what would it be?

[29:14] Patti LuPone: To pay more attention, study harder, discipline. I mean, as far as craft is concerned, that I think... this is what I do. You know what I mean? This is what I do, and I wish I was smarter.

[29:32] Justin Guarini: Interesting. How do you think being smarter and studying the craft would have maybe altered your trajectory? Because you've had a pretty amazing career, but how do you think it would... do you think it would have made it better, faster, easier?

[29:43] Patti LuPone: No, I don't know. I don't know. I just wish that I had understood technique vocally and acting terms sooner. I mean, it takes me a long time to learn, and I just wish that I wasn't such an adult.

[30:03] Justin Guarini: Well, you're one of the most amazing adults in the entertainment business, so congratulations.

[30:09] Patti LuPone: Well, thank you so very much. I really, really appreciate you taking the time.

[30:17] Justin Guarini: Oh, thank you. It's so good to hear your voice.

[30:23] Patti LuPone: It's great to hear your voice too, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of the filming and your time in New York City and touring around with your show.

[30:30] Justin Guarini: Thanks, Patti. I wish you the best always.

[30:34] Patti LuPone: Thank you, dear. This is an awesome way to start off my podcast, so thank you. I just can't thank you enough for taking the time.

[30:41] Justin Guarini: Thank you for asking me, always.

[30:45] Patti LuPone: All right. I love you.

[30:45] Justin Guarini: All right. I love you too, dear. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.

[30:51] Patti LuPone: Okay, bye.

[30:58] Justin Guarini: Okay, so I want to take a brief moment to answer a question that Kevin has. Kevin asks, "My one question about auditioning is what advice would you give to overcoming nerves for overcoming nerves and thinking the character's thoughts while performing versus thinking your own thoughts, like what the people in the room are thinking about the performance?" Well, that's two questions, Kevin. I'll answer both.

[31:22] First one about overcoming nerves, you know, there's so much advice out there about overcoming nerves, and a lot of it's good, some of it's just junk, but I want to kind of get behind that question a little bit and start by really getting at the thoughts that lead to a question and the beliefs that lead to a question like, "Why am I so nervous?" or the feelings of nerves. And really what it boils down to at the end of the day is whether or not you believe that you're enough. I mean, that's simple. And I mean, it's like, oh, let's make a bumper sticker: "I'm enough, and I'm never gonna be nervous before auditions." No, that's obviously not true. But the way you start to approach the audition before you step into the casting room, before you step into the audition room, will greatly determine whether or not you are regular nervous or nervous to the point where you can't function anymore.

[32:23] And so one of the greatest things that I do to overcome any nerves that I have that go beyond just the normal "I care, I want to be good, this is an intense situation" nerves is I ask myself better questions. Because the questions that lead me to being nervous are often like, "What if I'm not enough? What if I don't get this job? Then what am I going to do after that? What if the people on the other side of the table don't like me? What if I don't stack up to the people who I'm sitting next to in the casting room waiting?" All of those things are just like... I mean, a pile of crap that you put on yourself, and then you walk into the audition room with this big pile of crap on top of you, and you wonder why you fall apart, why you get so nervous, why things don't go well.

But what would happen if you asked yourself, "What would happen if I was enough? What would happen if the work that I was doing in here was unique? I brought my own perspective to it, and what would happen if there was no competition?" Not that there's no competition, obviously you're competing, but if you bring your unique interpretation of the character, of the role into the room, then there is no competition. No one else has lived your life, has experienced your experiences, and no one therefore can deliver the kind of performance that you can deliver.

[33:50] And then on top of that, you know, when it comes to what's going to happen next, we're gonna hold up... if you start to do what David Mamet said and just let the script do the work and have fun. And this leads me into the second part of your question, which was, you know, how do you think the character's thoughts while performing versus thinking your own thoughts? That is an actor trap. That is one of the traps that so many of us have fallen into or are still into trying to dig our ways out. And what I say to that is no, no, no, it's not about thinking the character's thoughts because as performers, as actors, if we align ourselves with the vibration of the character, we then become the instrument through which the character plays.

I'm going to say that again: if we align ourselves with the vibration of the character, we become the instrument through which the character plays. And again, that sounds all great, but really in simpler terms, it's like instead of thinking of ourselves playing a character like we have to put on the mask or put on some sort of skin suit that's not our own, attempt to find the bits and pieces and thoughts and ideas of the character and experience of the character that resonate with your own ideas, your own thoughts.

[35:17] Now, for example, if I was playing the demon barber of Fleet Street, now I'm not gonna go out and murder somebody, and I pray to God that I never ever have to experience whether it's justified or not that experience. However, I know the feelings of rage, of anger, of feeling like, "Oh, I've got a secret and I got away with something." I've experienced that in my life. I also know shame. I know regret. I know the sort of weight of holding on to a secret or something that if I told people that maybe I would get in a bunch of trouble over. And so when I begin to approach the demon barber of Fleet Street that way, I then begin to align my experiences with his, and I can start to not, you know, fit his skin on me or put the mask on me, but I can start to just delve into my own experiences of the feelings and the thoughts and the other experiences that he's had, and I allow the script to do the work.

And I just have fun because I can stand in a room and I can tell the people on the other side of the table my deepest, darkest, most horrible secret without telling them a single thing from my life. I can use the demon barber's experience and words and the music to tell my own story. And when you come from it at that perspective, from that perspective, oh, it's liberating because you don't have to play pretend or to act. You just allow the script to do the work on you, and you become the vessel, the instrument through which the script plays because it is playing through your own experience, through your own unique lens, your own unique view of the world.

[37:19] Now we could go on and on and on and on and on about that, and down the line there's going to be opportunities for us to talk about that. But that was a really, really great question. And in the six minutes or so that I had, or seven minutes or so that I had here, I hope that I answered it. And if you would like to ask me a question, it's really simple. All you have to do is go to auditionsecrets.com and hit "Ask Me a Question," and you can leave me a voice memo, and I will play it live here on the air for everyone to hear. If you don't want to leave a voice memo, no problem. You can email me at justin@auditionsecrets.com. I listen to the voice memos, I read the emails personally, and I would love to hear from you and serve you and answer as many questions as I can. So I can't wait to hear from you.

[38:18] Justin Guarini: Well, that does it for today's show. Thank you so very much for tuning in and making it all the way to the end of Audition Secrets. I really appreciate your time. Thank you, thank you, thank you to my love, my showbiz mama, the living legend Patti LuPone for taking the time to sit down with me. I love you, I love you, I love you, mama. Thank you so very much. And thank you for your question, Kevin. And I cannot wait. Next episode, we have the absolutely lovely and talented and all-around awesome woman Laura Osnes on the episode. We get to sit down with her to talk and, you know what? We get to get behind that nice, joyous, shiny facade and see what really ticks Laura Osnes off. I had to ask her this question because she is just the picture—and she really truly is the picture of sweetness and light.

So we get behind there and see what really ruffles her feathers. It's a great, great interview, and I can't wait for you to hear it. If you haven't subscribed to the show, please do. We want to spread this message far and wide. We are trying to get Audition Secrets out there so that more people can nail more auditions and book more jobs, and we need your help to do it. So please subscribe, go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, leave a review, leave some comments. We really, really appreciate you listening and supporting the show. I am Justin Guarini. This has been Audition Secrets. Thank you so very much for listening, and remember, you're only one audition away.