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[0:00] Justin Guarini: We want you to get the job. We want to be finished with casting that character. We want someone to come in and blow our minds and say, wow, where have you been? Or, thank God.

[0:18] Justin Guarini: Hello, you are listening to Audition Secrets, the podcast. I'm Justin Guarini, your host, and I'm also very excited that you are here. Thank you so very much for tuning in. It has been an awesome few weeks as we've gotten this podcast up and rolling. You have listened, you have downloaded, and I cannot thank you enough. It means so much to me that you are here supporting not only yourself, but this podcast and the community of performers and auditioners as a whole. We got a great show for you today. Tony Award winning, multiple Tony Award winning, producer Robyn Goodman is stopping by and we have a wonderful conversation with her. I'll get to that in just a second, but before I do, I want to do a little bit of housekeeping.

I love to mentor and coach and help people through their auditions, and I also really love to just answer questions, and I'm so surprised by the questions that people ask me. And so, this Thursday, I'm going to do a Facebook Live on my page, the Justin Guarini page, and it's sort of like an AMA. You can ask me anything about my career, about auditioning, the things that you've wanted to know about the behind the scenes techniques and strategies to really nail auditions. I will be available to you, so all you have to do is go to my Facebook page, that's Justin Guarini, and look for the little link that says, hey, there's an AMA happening on Thursday. Go there, click on it, so you can be notified when I go live, and I'm looking forward to it.

I can't wait to answer your questions. I really love doing this stuff. All right, without further ado, let's get to the show. My guest today is theater producer Robyn Goodman. Not only has she won one Tony Award, she's won multiple Tony Awards for her shows In the Heights, Avenue Q. She was also a producer on Hamilton. Maybe you've ever heard of that show? Just one of those small properties that comes and goes on Broadway. Anyway, she's lovely, and a couple of the takeaways from today's show are not being yourself. We talk about how not being yourself in the room will not get you the job. There are a lot of people who like to walk in as the character or pretend to be someone or something other than themselves, and we really dig into that.

What is the difference between casting a star versus discovering a star? Robyn Goodman is one of those producers who really loves the casting process and likes to be front and center and really work with the people in the room. And also, she talks about what makes a star a star. And she shares with us one thing she wishes all actors knew. So make sure that you listen to that. Stay tuned, because there's so much great stuff coming your way. All right, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, the wonderful, the lovely and talented and whip-smart Robyn Goodman. I just want to begin at the beginning. A lot of the things I teach people about is how to just walk into an audition room and how that can make a huge difference in the way that people do that. So you've spent a lot of time in the casting world. And what I want to know from you is, what is the single worst thing an actor can do in the audition room?

[3:31] Robyn Goodman: Well, I would say not be themselves. Joke around, try to be cute. Unless you know the people. If you know the people, that's a whole different story. But I think that you have to walk in as yourself, even if you're playing a character. Don't walk in as a character. Show them the magic of creating the character. And just be friendly and seem like a good person to work with. Because if we get people who do a song and dance before we even ask them to audition, sometimes we think, whoa, that person's going to be a handful, you know? So just be your nicest self and bring your own energy into the room and don't try to do anything until you start acting.

[4:18] Justin Guarini: I know that you can smell BS coming like a mile away. As a casting director or as someone who's in a position of casting, you can really tell from what, like the first 30 seconds, if someone's being authentic?

[4:33] Robyn Goodman: Pretty much. You can tell if they're sticking it up or if they're uncomfortable or they didn't read it before they walked in the room. I mean, you can tell everything pretty much.

[4:42] Justin Guarini: How does that, in your mind, as someone who's in the process of casting, how does that set them up?

[4:47] Robyn Goodman: Not well.

[4:49] Justin Guarini: That's a pretty good way of putting it, right?

[4:53] Robyn Goodman: Yeah, not well. You know, I always prefer when actors learn the science, if they can, if they have the time, or at least are very familiar and have made some choices. Because, I mean, so much of who you are as you walk in the door is what's going to get you cast. But your acting will just make it the home run. And so if you come in, and the director often says, is there anything I can tell you? And if it's a complicated scene, yes. But often people say, and I really appreciate it, let me just try it. And then if it's not what you want, you know, tell me. And I think that's good. Because that means they've made choices, and they're familiar with it. And then a director can work with them and find out if they speak the same language.

[5:43] Justin Guarini: Yeah, great. Now, what is, we talked about coming in and being yourself and really knowing the science and all those things that we're really taught in school to do. But about the variables, the things that you kind of can't control when things go wrong. What is one of the craziest or wildest or funniest things you've ever seen happen inside of an audition room?

[6:02] Robyn Goodman: Oh my God, in an audition room? Well, I always love it when people sing a song that I've never heard before and makes me laugh. You know, because it's entertaining, if you can entertain us, because, you know, we're sitting there all day, seeing the same scenes over and over and over. So if there's a way you can, I mean, I love when we're doing Dial-In for Murder right now at Bucks County. And I love when people can find a laugh in the scene, find something funny, even though it's suspenseful, and there are characters that are truthful. They find a way to spin something that shows them, shows us that they have wit. And I love actors who have wit. They make really good choices.

[6:50] Robyn Goodman: What I really would like people to know is, you know, we come into the casting room or the audition room, and we have all this pressure that we put on ourselves, and then as on ourselves, we want to get the job. But I want to give people a perspective from the other side of the table. What are the pressures that a casting director or a producer like yourself, what are the kind of pressure that they're under? Because we always think about us, we think about us, we think that, you know, it's almost like we're on trial. And then, you know, the people on the other side of the table are just judges, and then they, you know, they bang the gavel, and then it's next case. Yeah, yeah, but it's not necessarily that way. Casting directors and producers are under their own sets of pressure. Can you talk about that?

[7:33] Robyn Goodman: Yeah, I mean, honestly, we want you to get the job. We want to be finished with casting that character. We want someone to come in and blow our minds and say, Wow, where have you been? Or thank God, or, you know, I mean, we are especially the casting director, because they want to get out of there as fast as they can. Why? Well, because once it's cast, then, you know, they've earned their money, they move on to the next thing, you know, get paid until it's, they're paid before, but, but really, it's, it's behooves them to show you that they're bringing in just enough actors that you can cast the role. Right. And, and you don't want to, I have sat through days where I think, what is this casting director thinking?

None of these people are right for the role. And so they're on, they're auditioning too, in a way to say, I get this, this is what you're looking for. And, you know, you know, often, many, many times they're correct. And sometimes I have to say, why don't we see that person for the other role? Or why don't we make Rob McClure Princeton instead of the secondary character? Or, you know.

[8:43] Robyn Goodman: What are the politics on your side of the table that a lot of actors don't know about? I can only speak personally, but I am very, very involved in casting. And I have been known to say no, or to more likely talk them out of somebody if I think they're not the best person for the role. But I think I've earned that position now. At the beginning, I'm not so sure. But every once in a while, there'll be someone with a lot of money in the show, or who's writing the show or something, who has some say, who will just throw out a famous person's name who's not right for the role. You know, and you have to explain to them that they're not right for the role, and in a nice way, so it doesn't embarrass them.

[9:26] Justin Guarini: Well, right. And it's such an easy trap to fall into, because when you go to star cast, I mean, you want to make sure that you're, because it takes so much time, and money, and everything just to get a show into a theater, much less to get it successful.

[9:42] Robyn Goodman: On Broadway, you know, it's never good. You know, if you can get a star, you must.

[9:48] Justin Guarini: Yeah, sure.

[9:49] Robyn Goodman: It's frightening, because things cost so much, and stars sell tickets, obviously.

[9:52] Justin Guarini: Right, right.

[9:54] Robyn Goodman: But my favorite things have been when I've discovered, made stars, you know, discovered people have become stars, and I have a hell of a lot more fun.

[10:02] Justin Guarini: Yeah, I'm sure it must be. Now, what is it that you've seen over the years, speaking of stars, what is it that you've seen that when they're either on their way to being a star, or they're already a star, what are the sort of either habits or things that they will do inside of the room that set them apart? I mean, besides just general raw talent, I mean, what is it that makes someone a star, or makes you sit up and go, this person could be a star?

[10:30] Robyn Goodman: You know, that's hard to define, because, I mean, I can tell you in particular people what they have, but sometimes it's just a way of looking at the world that's just different than everybody else's. That they're not straight on things, they're not on the nose in any way, that they see the world in some kind of way that that sort of exposes their humanity, or our humanity, our common humanity. Or, you know, it depends what you, I remember Ron, Ron.

[11:02] Robyn Goodman: Always comes to mind because he had been working at Paper Mill and then he was playing the supporting role in Avenue Q. And I just remember watching him and I said, why am I watching him? I just can't take my eyes off him. Why is that? Because the energy and the joy he brought to the stage, and still does by the way, was just so, it was infectious. So that's what made him a star. But then there's Santino Fontana, who I did a little play with and I said, God, that guy's interesting. He's so complicated and smart. His attack on the material is so smart and different than everybody else's. And he also always drew me in. You know, that's why directors say, make the audience come to you. Don't go to them.

In a musical, sometimes you have to go to them. But it's a kind of confidence of the person you are and the ability to have a point of view on the words and the music and everything else. I mean, if you see Kelly O'Hara and then Maren Macy in King and I, one song was funny, one song was not. Totally different people, because they're both stars, bring another sensibility, but they have a point of view on the world.

[12:32] Justin Guarini: The question I like to ask performers is, have you ever walked out of an audition room and said something to yourself like this? What just happened? That was terrible. I feel so unbelievably confused right now. Well, believe me, I have walked out of audition rooms and felt the same exact way. And one day I just got tired of it and I started doing research, talking to my coaches and asking myself better questions and finding a better way of going about auditioning and trying to make it fun. And guess what? I found success. And then I started sharing that knowledge with my friends and some students and they found success in their auditions and in their careers. And so what I want to tell you today is I am opening up a limited number of slots for private one-on-one online coaching with me.

That's right. You can go to auditionsecrets.com, click a few buttons and then schedule some time to have one-on-one private coaching with me where I share my wisdom, my knowledge, and I tailor it specifically for your needs. We break down your audition, the mindset of auditioning and we address and correct your biggest concerns around auditioning. And then we go and we work on the song portion of your audition together. We work to make the material shine, to make you shine with my signature technique called the triple threat technique where we break it down, we dissect the material, we connect you to the material and then we project the material together to make it just shine, to make you look awesome, to make you feel awesome.

It's 60 minutes of fun, growth, and just an awesome time. And I want to get you results and I've gotten results for some other people. Jenna Prapado, Mia's mom said, my daughter got a bigger part than what she auditioned for. Every session brought more and more value. My daughter found Justin exciting and exuberant. Everything was valuable and fun. She got a bigger part than what she auditioned for. Or there was my other student, Leandra Hill, who said, great audition guidance. I'd work with Justin again and again. Rather than highlight my weaknesses, Justin gave me the tools to address them. Being coached by him is like working with your favorite mentor. He's a great communicator, efficient and kind.

I'd work with him again and again. And you know what? I'm just so grateful to Leandra and to Jenna and to Mia. I love, love, love coaching. I love seeing the light bulb go on above students' heads and I would love to have the honor and the opportunity of coaching you through your next audition and any audition you want me to coach you for.

[15:08] Robyn Goodman: It's almost like the more the actor knows themselves and the more you can find that out about yourself, the more that you can bring that to the role. And it's less about playing a character, but how the character plays on you.

[15:23] Justin Guarini: Absolutely. I mean, I remember when you came into the new world and it was so energizing to the cast because that's exactly what you did. You just brought Justin and Justin's truth and sense of humor and gorgeous voice and all of it and just poured it into that character. That's what makes you a star. Really.

[15:47] Robyn Goodman: Thank you very much. I mean it. That means a whole lot to me. Very much. So if, last question, if there was one thing you would want either with your producer hat or in the producer casting producer sort of role, if there's one thing that you would want all actors to know and really get into their bones and understand that if it would make their job easier or your job easier, everyone's job easier, what would that be?

[16:15] Robyn Goodman: You know, I was an actor for 10 years, so I know the pain and suffering of going to auditions, feeling you did a great job and then not getting the part. And it happened to me many times and vice versa. But I would say the director and the playwright and maybe the producer have something in mind they're looking for. And probably when you walk through the door, they know if you have it or not. And it has nothing to do with anything except what they're picturing in their minds. So if you do a great job and often actors do, and somebody says, well, he's just not right for the role or she's not right for the role or they are not right for the role. It's because they've got something in their minds.

So try not to take every one of those moments as rejection. And I know it's hard because you work your heart out and you, you know, you learn the lines and you have a great idea. I remember when I lost one part, I thought, Oh, that was such a good idea I had. Why didn't they go for it? It's not an idea to something else that did it very specific to the character. It was hot on Baltimore actually. And I was the second choice and it was, I had made all these choices about her being a vegan and, you know, being very, very spiritual and wearing garlic around my neck. And I had this whole, I thought it was like, Oh man, I'm going to get this part. And I did. And it broke my heart. So I don't know if I can stop heartbreak, but I would love to, if I could.

[17:49] Justin Guarini: It's absolutely part of it. I remember I auditioned for Godspell when it was coming last coming. And I think it was what in the, the theater that I did in transit and what theater is that circle and square and part of that audition was you had to make up some sort of elaborate like display and this sort of thing where you taught, you know, it's like, you know, they're all sitting in the movie, they're all sitting in like the junkyard and they bring all day like, Ooh, look at this. It's a, it's a cup, but no, really it's all that stuff. And so I got this movie wrap, which was my son's it's like this 10 foot long piece of fabric. And you know, you're supposed to wrap it up and it becomes a sling from your baby.

And I did this whole thing. So I was like, this is going to be so great. And it was this five minute routine where I like used rouge and like, like the poster, you know, he's got a little root. And all these other things that was elaborate sort of display that went along with the feel of the piece and whatever dialogue or something they had given me. And I did it. And I'll never forget the look. I think it was Chelsea. Never forget the look on their faces. They were just like, and it was this elaborate thing. And it was, it was good. It was so good, but it just was not what they were looking for. And I had spent like, I had spent hours coming up with this thing and practicing it and, and speaking to some dings of my own and practicing it.

And it just, it just didn't work, but it wasn't because it wasn't good. It was just, was they were just like, that is not, that'd be great. They really were. They literally was really, that was really interesting.

[19:30] Robyn Goodman: I know that feeling, but you know, sometimes it's the agents who don't tell them the right things, you know, you know, they don't say, well, you're doing the second scene, not the first scene, or they want you for this part or, you know, I mean, or they're looking for blah, blah, blah, blah. And sometimes they're not translating it.

[19:49] Justin Guarini: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, what it boils down to is going in making strong choices, having a strong view.

[19:53] Robyn Goodman: Yes. And have fun. Yeah. You know what I mean? Have fun. Say, well, I've never done this before, you know, and we want you to have fun. We don't want you to leave the room and feel terrible. Yeah. There are people who do, but I don't, I doubt that there are people who do. And it's good to know that there are people who actually do, because that's sort of like, you can shield yourself a little bit from that. But I love having fun in the audition room. And I think it's so great to have someone like you in there who also wants to have fun. Who's like, Hey, let's just, let's play. I think if I can help actors and people like you and other people are talking to help actors to just come in the room and realize that we're there to play, we're like going rigidly doing this one thing and have to get it right. It's a, it's a, it's a dialogue.

[20:44] Justin Guarini: Yes. And you know, that dialogue with the director is very important. Really important to find out if you speak the same language, if he or she can give you a direction and it will take on you. And that's play really. Cause I know some directors just say, I don't know what this scene is yet, but let's try blah, blah, blah. And so you try it and it's, you know, you're playing with them.

[21:06] Robyn Goodman: Yeah. Yeah. I've had people throw things at me that would, they would never put on stage, but just to see what would happen.

[21:12] Justin Guarini: But you were a very good auditioner actually. I remember.

[21:16] Robyn Goodman: Exactly.

[21:19] Justin Guarini: Well, thank you. I really thank you very much for your time. Thank you for the information. I know that's going to be very, very helpful. I can't wait to see what you do. Bye.