This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Episode 12 – Charlie Romano and Harold Hodge Jr.

[0:22] Teresa Attridge: Ever wonder what it takes to make a new musical sing? Our mission is to give you an inclusive look behind the scenes. We are interviewing the creatives who are changing musical theater one 11 o'clock number at a time. This is your Backstage Pass.

[1:04] ♪ Musical number: "A Soul Ain't Free" — performed by Call Me From The Grave ♪

[1:44] Teresa Attridge: Welcome back to Part 2 of our conversation with Charlie Romano and Harold Hodge Jr. about this exciting new musical. It's going to get a bit personal in here as we delve further into their writing process and the concepts of the devil and redemption. Call Me From The Grave explores the life and myth of the legendary blues guitar player Robert Johnson. In Greenwood, Mississippi, a young sharecropper, Robert, dreams of becoming a bluesman. When his loving girlfriend, Virginia, becomes pregnant, Robert puts his dreams on hold to build a life and a family with her. However, Robert's life comes crashing down when Virginia dies of complications in childbirth and their newborn son is taken into the exclusive custody of her unapproving father.

Feeling he has failed as a husband, father, and a musician, Robert is at his lowest when he is approached by the devil. Robert exchanges his soul for the music career he has always dreamt of, on the condition that he never returns home. As the years go by, Robert gains all the fame and renown that he is promised. However, after learning that the people he loves are in need back home, Robert must choose between his fame and his family. Listen all the way to the end for a game that we call Dancing With The Devil.

[3:00] Pauls Macs: An anecdote that I might cut later because it's pretty personal, but just to say that I was not at the birth of my child because I had COVID. I had to watch it on FaceTime. I wasn't actually tracking this as I read this moment, but the idea that Robert wasn't there for both the birth of his child and the death of his wife, that devastation that a person feels. It's almost like, yeah, sign me up, devil. You can get that. Someone would do anything to make that pain go away, especially if they had always dreamed of another life and then this is the pain that the life that they had settled on brought to them. You gotta see it. So, yeah. Speaking of which, that's a good transition to the devil. Let's talk about the devil.

[3:39] Charlie Romano: I was just like, how dare the devil make me vulnerable in this moment? How did you characterize the devil? That's always a fascinating question. This is not the first time the devil has been featured on this podcast. Shout out, Salem. Also, shout out the 66th annual. The devil actually shows up a lot on our podcast and I don't know what that says about us. He's a great character, but how did you? It's compelling. What does it say about the world? Like, what are we all willing to do and how desperate are we feeling in the current climate? I mean, there's so many ways one can characterize the devil in a literary work. In modern age, it's often cartoonish. I wasn't interested in that cartoonish depiction because I feel like whether or not one believes that the devil exists, I feel like the devil really is a manifestation of evil.

What is that and what does that look like? And I don't think evil actually looks evil at first glance, right? If everybody knew what the wrong decision was, they would usually not make that decision. People knew that whatever they're going to do has some kind of negative consequence on other people. Most people, I think, wouldn't do that. But evil and temptation is disguised as good, as something that you should do. And I think that's what makes it compelling. I think that's what makes the devil a really interesting character in this story, is that the devil presents Robert, kind of like you were just saying, Pauls, look at this life, look what it brought you. It brought you all these terrible, you know, legitimately evil things.

He doesn't say that word, but it brought Robert all this evil in his life. The death of anybody is a bad thing. His father-in-law taking his son from him, he loses everything. That's really bad. And the devil said, I don't want you to have to experience all this bad stuff. Let me give you a life that you can finally do these things and be rid of your pain. On the surface, this is a great opportunity. Robert is no longer going to be living in the dread and fear and pain of his previous life. But he has to walk away from that life completely. And the short-sightedness of that is where the evil, the real evil of the devil lies, is that the devil convinces Robert to neglect his responsibilities to family, neglect and kind of turn away from the goodness in his life.

And Robert doesn't really realize it at first, and it takes him a bit of time to recognize that. And I think that is sort of how temptation works, whether it's, you know, what we were talking about, Pauls, the struggle between, do I take care of my child in this moment? Do I answer these 40 emails or make these 40 decisions? And for the record, I always take care of my child first.

[5:48] Pauls Macs: Good.

[5:49] Charlie Romano: I think I do, but sometimes I'm not sure. I'm changing this diaper, but I'm answering that email in my head. You feel bad. You know, you're like, oh, but I should be focused on this diaper, you know? Well, that is so telling about you, that your idea of temptation is getting to answer an email. Honestly, as a Capricorn, that like spoke to me in a way that makes me so concerned. So that, to me, was one of the, and there's more to it, Dr. Harrell can fill in some of the blanks. I didn't want the devil to be cartoonish. I didn't want it to be overly evil. I want them to feel like any one of us can feel this temptation in ourselves. And it's not like this person is coming in and controlling Robert's life, it's that we all within our humanity have the ability to give in to temptation and do terrible things.

So you have to be careful. You have to try to have self-awareness to a degree where, am I doing this because it's right or it's because I just want this thing? And temptation works in all sorts of mysterious ways. And so we try to play with that if Robert is facing temptation and he comes to different decision points throughout the story, or what is he going to choose? He can go this way, he can go that way. That I think is where this character of the devil is interesting, is this kind of embodiment of giving in to temptation in spite of it being the wrong thing.

[7:01] Harold Hodge Jr: I also feel like, especially in the piece, temptation is not always just want. Temptation is also relief. Like, it's not just the things that you get, but it's the things that you unburden of yourself. And especially with characters who deal with grief, that's the heaviest thing you can have. It's no wonder that it's not just the temptation of what is before you, but the ability to shed what is behind you.

[7:12] Teresa Attridge: That's so well said, Harold. Because so often we think of the devil as, oh, I want this. I want to be rich. I want to be famous. I want to be a great bluesman. I want all these things. But it can also be, I just want to be free of this other thing. I just want to be free of this pain. I want to be free of this burden. There's that word again. And we see that so clearly. Here we go. So now might be the perfect time to play Some Deals Can't Be Undone, as long as we're chatting about the devil.

[7:35] Charlie Romano: So the devil really has evolved a lot, actually. This piece from the beginning, when I first came on, if I remember correctly, when I first heard the song list, he really came in, tempted Robert, and was like, out. And then he appeared at the end of the show to be like, I'm here to collect. And that was pretty much it. I mentioned before, we really talked about, well, hey, at the heart of the show, what do we want the story to be? And we said the story of redemption. And so we were like, okay, so he needs to constantly, when his family needs him, have this pull back and this push back. So the devil became more of a character. And we definitely also spoke about, he should be definitely more present post the devil pact.

But then really, just with how he's written as well, I really wanted to lean into just, again, like Southern mythology as well. Even in the myth of Robert, they say he went to the guitar and it was a man who gave him the guitar. And I'm like, oh, it was the devil, per se, with the horns or black Philip the goat. It was just like a random man with a hat and you couldn't see his face. So I really wanted to lean into that, and it's just a man. We also have this expression in the South that we say all the time, where we're like, don't let the devil in the car, because he's going to want to drive. That's something we say all the time down in Alabama. The whole idea of even if you just let him in the vehicle, the next thing you know, he'll be the one on the steering wheel and you won't know it.

So really just leaning into that, you thinking you're in control, you're like, I see the stipulations of the deal. I got it. I can handle it. But you don't see there are other strings being pulled to manipulate the situation. So it was really a lot to go off of, which is like the mythology of it all and going into Christian mythology as well. But then also just leaning into, for a lot of that too, Robert doesn't have anyone. So I was like, well, this is great. Now he has. He and the devil can talk. And now we can hear how Robert's feeling, checking with him a lot through the devil. And also just making sure that the devil felt like a friend for most of it, because from what we hear in mythology, that's like how it goes, or in Christian religion itself or in the Bible, like the devil rarely is like, ooga booga, I'm going to scare you, you know? He's always like, hey girl, that apple look good, don't it? Like it's never...

[10:01] Pauls Macs: ...scary.

[10:02] Charlie Romano: That's also a low key why people always cast the devil as hot. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I could be making this up, but I feel like that's like in the biblical text, isn't it? Isn't it? Like Lucifer's supposed to be like, great on the eyes.

[10:15] Harold Hodge Jr: Yeah.

[10:16] Charlie Romano: I think that's like a thing.

[10:17] Pauls Macs: Beautiful.

[10:18] Charlie Romano: Lucifer was his most beautiful angel. I think the most beautiful angel is the way... And I mean, that's the thing is that temptation is something we also associate with attraction, right? And with like intrigue. I think it's really interesting that not only is the devil a friend to Robert, the devil is a mirror, as the devil often is.

[10:34] Harold Hodge Jr: Absolutely.

[10:35] Teresa Attridge: Yeah. I was raised Catholic. I think that's the perfect segue as we've been talking about the devil to set up the song, Some Deals Can't Be Undone. So please set that up for us.

[10:46] Charlie Romano: At this point in the story, Robert has lost everything. He's lost Virginia. He's started drinking more, which leads to the loss of his child because Virginia's father takes the child away. So everything is really falling apart. The life you want is gone. So at this point, the devil has appeared, offered him basically everything he's ever wanted. He's like, hey, you can have fame. You can have fortune. You can get out of this town. The only stipulation is that you can never come back. The day you set foot in this town will be your last. And the devil vanishes after telling him that all he has to do is go to the crossroads, pick up the guitar, and play it. So at this point, he's left alone, and he starts walking toward the crossroad where the guitar is, thinking about the deal.

The ghosts from his past start to appear, and the song starts with us hearing all of these things we've heard previously in the play, all these moments of doubt, all these questions, all these things that have made Robert feel little or that his dreams were out of reach. And we hear these things until the moment he sees the guitar.

[11:22] Charlie Romano: Wow. And who is performing this demo?

[11:23] Harold Hodge Jr: Everyone.

[11:24] Charlie Romano: Oh, gosh. Is it a bunch of people?

[11:25] Harold Hodge Jr: It's a bunch of people.

[11:26] Charlie Romano: Oh, I've got the list right here. Here is Some Deals Can't Be Undone, performed by Sarah Speller, Julian Manresa, and the Yale College Original Cast Ensemble of Call Me From the Grave.

[11:39] ♪ Musical number: "Some Deals Can't Be Undone" — performed by Sara Speller, Julian Manresa, and the Yale College Original Cast Ensemble ♪

[15:43] Charlie Romano: You know when you get to the end of an act one, and you're like, that's not how you win an act. This show does not have that problem, I would say. This is not everyone leaving being like, was that the end? Was this one act? Not happening. Everyone's like, oh, I've got to be the first in the bathroom. I don't want to miss the beginning of act two. You know, the way people sound. I just love those little New York old ladies. I mean, they're really keeping the business alive. There's a lyric where the devil says to Robert, you've got nothing to lose yet so much to gain. A life like yours ain't worth the pain. I was like, damn, got him. When you put it that way, I should definitely make a deal with the devil.

My life sucks. Cause I think it's like this idea of like, we have high risk, high reward, right? Where we think if we work hard, and this is again a theme in the first demo we played, right? That it's like, what does it actually mean if you're working hard but you don't reap any benefit from it? Right? If your soul ain't free. Which is funny. Cause some deals stayed the same for so long. And then just randomly while we were at, we were in Connecticut. Good speed. I don't even remember what made us do, I just remember like riding on a note card while you were somewhere else. I think we wanted to expand the presence of the devil in that moment. And we had cut a song, there was a song that came right before this.

Yes, that's what it was. Sort of cut and repurposed in act two. And so we needed that transition material. We made the devil a little bit more present in the song. It really made it his number in a way. Which is funny because it feels so obvious how it should have always been. Now when I listen to it, I can't believe it wasn't always this. But yeah, Some Deals was like the one song that never changed all these years until we were in Connecticut. We were visited by the ghost of Robert Thompson. That's who opened the door. I told you to fix act one. I'm so convinced. He said, you better fix this song or you will freeze to death. I will open all of the doors and windows. I mean, y'all joked that.

I mean, Charlie knows. I literally said it that whole two weeks. I was like, Robert Thompson is here. Because the first night, I don't know if you mentioned to them earlier, the first night we were there, we both in our separate rooms on separate floors randomly woke up at like 5am in a cold sweat. And we both mentioned it later. We were like, did something wake us up? And I was like, ghost. It's definitely ghost. It was Robert. It was Robert.

[18:07] Harold Hodge Jr: I think this was said before we started the podcast, but you were at good speed working on the show, developing the show. And then one night, you came downstairs in the morning and the front door had been just flung wide open. Is that correct?

[18:21] Charlie Romano: I woke up. That's wild. So I think inevitably the question becomes when you have a character who's dealing with a deal with the devil, there is no tension unless that debt gets paid. Because there's so much myth specifically around why and how Robert died, I know we've talked about you wanted him to have a redemption story. What led you down this path? I mean, unless you don't want to give too much away, right? But even without giving details, what does redemption look like to the both of you in this context?

[18:51] Harold Hodge Jr: Well, I think for us, it was really just making sure there was a shift in like being selfish into selflessness, you know? And that was a big part of it. Like, how do we go from this life of sex, drugs, and rock and roll, you're living the life, you're having everything you want, and making the act of choice to leave everything you've ever wanted to help another, and being weighed with that choice. Because Robert is weighed with that choice for all of Act Two. In fact, all of the whole show, because at first he chooses Virginia. He chooses to marry her. He chooses to give up on an opportunity. And at that point, he's still constantly having to make the choice between, things are going on back home, do I help them?

Do I stay what I'm doing? And of course, he has the devil in his ear constantly being like, well, you are helping, because you're making money. Therefore, you can send money down. They'll be fine. They don't need you like that. Until eventually the situation gets so bad, the lines get drawn harder in the sand than they were before. That would give him too much away. But just the idea, of course, of having to put your wants and needs aside for someone else's, that's how hard of a sacrifice that can be. And doing it for the right reasons as well. Doing it for selfless reasons. Because one of the things we talked about a lot with the mythology and how we set up the devil deal is that we were like, we cannot have it where Robert thinks there's some kind of loophole or he thinks there's some kind of way out. That was another thing too we had to keep working with to make sure that it was clear that it was an act that was just completely selfless. Which is hard to do.

[20:23] Charlie Romano: I know we are going to go to the song. I don't know if it's too early to set that up.

[20:27] Harold Hodge Jr: Listen, there is nothing I would love more than for you to set up the song, Harold.

[20:29] Charlie Romano: What I was going to say is that very hard choice of putting someone else's needs above your own, that is not easy for Robert to do after deciding to put others first. He's doubting himself. He's at his lowest. He is wondering if redemption is even possible for him because he has it in his head that once you're in bed with the devil, there's no getting out. That's the point of no return. Once you've done too much evil, you are just inherently evil. And so his mother, Julia, sings the song He Will Free You to basically talk to him about those feelings, talk to him about those beliefs and just remind him in the very Christian motherly way she is in the South, there's always a chance for redemption.

[21:09] Harold Hodge Jr: Absolutely. I will add just a couple of little things. In a lot of the stories that exist about Robert out there in the world, the general myth is that he died and the hellhounds were torturing him and he went directly to hell and it's all this dark. We already talked about this. His true last words were not reflective of this reality of him dying in this really brutal, grotesque, kind of Halloween-ish way. I thought Harold and I agreed that it was important, albeit we're taking many obviously artistic liberties with life because we don't really know that much about Robert. He tried at least to redeem himself or be redeemed in some way, and I feel like it's important to shed light on that part of him because I don't want people to remember him as this man that he really ultimately wasn't, but he's just painted that way because it's sensational.

I feel like we're paying tribute to the actual man that way. The other thing about redemption is sometimes in our society we have trouble with this idea of if somebody does something so bad, can they actually be redeemed? Can they ever be forgiven? One way we all experience this growing up is kids are bullies. I was bullied as a kid sometimes. I'm sure all of us had some bully at some point because we're all in theater, so that's usually how it goes. Yeah. People who are bullies as kids, they grow up and sometimes they're bullies their whole lives, but sometimes they get past that and they can redeem themselves and become good people. This idea of redemption I feel like is important to humanity because if you do something bad and then everyone expects you to be a bad thing and then people treat you like you are bad, then you'll just always be bad.

This is what happens with kids in schools all the time. Some kid is a troublemaker. Teacher just expects them to be causing trouble so they don't give them time of day. Then they don't learn. Then they grow up resenting authority because they were told that they were always a problem and they were never showed any compassion. I feel like, well, maybe this is getting a little tangential to the show.

[23:01] Charlie Romano: No, I'm a thousand percent with you though. Harold's laughing at me because he knows that I ramble and I do this all the time. So if we need to cut any of this, cut away.

[23:07] Harold Hodge Jr: No, it's adorable. Keep going.

[23:09] Charlie Romano: It's an important message and ultimately that's part of the impetus of the show and why we feel so passionate about it. You know who's the ultimate bully? The devil. Boom. Okay, he will free you. And who is performing this song? Danielle Yvonne James. Our dear friend. Here is He Will Free You performed by Danielle Yvonne James.

[23:18] ♪ Musical number: "He Will Free You" — performed by Daneille Yvonne James ♪

[26:32] Harold Hodge Jr: There's also the theme in religion that the reason we have redemption is human, it's the sacrifice. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son and Jesus Christ Himself, like sacrificing Himself on the cross. Robert, you know, making His sacrifice and doing it selflessly, like you were saying, Teresa. The selflessness of the act is what makes it redeemable.

[26:52] Charlie Romano: Right, because there are a lot of people who grow up, they'll be ashamed of what they did. But true redemption does come from the selflessness of being, how am I going to grow past and be better for those around me versus the shame I feel I want to negate, and I want to not be what I was. When we talk about redemption, you have to take ego out of it, because it can't be about you.

[27:13] Teresa Attridge: Totally, totally agree, very well put. Personal philosophy, but you know.

[27:17] Pauls Macs: And who better than a mother to tell you what needs to happen?

[27:20] Teresa Attridge: Listen, well, we've had so much fun chatting with you about the piece, but we'd love to get to know you just a little bit more.

[27:26] Charlie Romano: Of course, yes.

[27:27] Pauls Macs: Beyond your musical, I think now might be a good time to close this out with an amazing game.

[27:32] Teresa Attridge: Yes, okay, so this game is going to be called Dancing with the Devil.

[27:36] Pauls Macs: 5, 6, 7, 8! Just to remind people this is a musical podcast, so every episode we do a game that's tailored to the show and the writers. And so this week, Dancing with the Devil, the scenario is you're at your lowest point. I don't know what that means for you, and the devil approaches you and says, I will give you the talent, the skill, or the situation of any musical theater character in the canon. What character do you choose to make that deal with to have their abilities?

[28:04] Charlie Romano: Right, Pauls, you had a really good answer. I would love for you to go first.

[28:08] Pauls Macs: Okay, well, I always like to challenge myself to name a musical that has not been named before, and I don't always succeed at that. Teresa and I have our go-tos, Elle Woods, Legally Blonde, The Barnacles Know This, Little Women, the 20th Annual Putnam County Show, Sweeney Todd comes up all the time. All the misses love it. But I immediately thought, I'm going to take the powers of Spider-Man. I just want to be Spider-Man. It's a musical, Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, it was a musical. It doesn't matter that it was the biggest Broadway flop in history. Was also Reeve Carney's first show of Hadestown fame? He was at least in it.

[28:40] Charlie Romano: Yeah, he was in it. By the way, congrats to Reeve and Eva on your engagement.

[28:45] Pauls Macs: I didn't know when I got the original prompt, I would have to be at my lowest point. And Peter Parker luck, the Parker luck, we all know you have to be at low points before you can gain your superpowers. Uncle Ben has just died.

[28:56] Charlie Romano: Uncle Ben just died.

[28:57] Pauls Macs: With great power comes great responsibility. Spoilers for Spider-Man. Also, the other one that came to mind was Billy Flynn. If I'm at my lowest point, I want to get that silver tongue. I want to become a rich and powerful trial attorney. It seems really fun. Those are my answers.

[29:11] Teresa Attridge: I love that. All right, Harold or Charlie, do either of you have an answer?

[29:14] Harold Hodge Jr: Yeah, this is tough to answer.

[29:16] Charlie Romano: Yeah, okay, a couple things come to mind. I'm going to be flip-flopping a bit. Originally, I thought this was just like power or ability, and I was like, I don't know that many musicals where there's like people with superpowers. So the first thing that came to mind was Edgar from Ragtime, who somehow just like is able to see into the future and inexplicably know things that nobody else knows. Edgar has this ability to see stuff into the future that nobody really heeds, and if they had heeded it, well, I guess World War I would never have happened, I guess. So that's cool.

[29:42] Harold Hodge Jr: The other one that comes to mind is, and these are really playing from some of my favorite shows, Miguel De Cervantes in Man of La Mancha, of course, puts on this incredible show in front of the Spanish expedition, this terrifying body who is going to decide whether he lives or dies. In prison, Miguel De Cervantes takes on this character of Don Quixote, who I find to be one of the most inspiring characters of musical theater.

[30:07] Charlie Romano: Maybe I'd say in all of literature.

[30:09] Harold Hodge Jr: In all of literature, true, right? And I would like the optimism of Don Quixote, the way he's able to look at this incredibly dark world. He meets Aldonza when she is at her lowest and is able to lift her out of her despair despite all of the horrible things around her because he sees goodness and he sees what she can be, what she truly is. That I find inspiring, and I think if I could have any power, it'd be the power of Don Quixote to inspire people like that or Miguel De Cervantes to put on stories.

[30:35] Pauls Macs: And you mean the things you already know how to do, Charlie? The things you're doing right now.

[30:38] Charlie Romano: Oh.

[30:41] Pauls Macs: You don't need the devil.

[30:42] Charlie Romano: You flatter me.

[30:44] Teresa Attridge: You don't need it.

[30:45] Pauls Macs: Oh, Charlie, that was beautiful. That was passionate. You keep dreaming your impossible dreams. Harold, do you have a good answer?

[30:52] Harold Hodge Jr: Obviously choosing Elphaba. Give me the grimmery. Give me the broom. Give me the monkeys. I'm wreaking havoc. It's over. And I'm not doing the whole thing Elphaba did where she was like, I'm not trying to be wicked. No, I'm taking down the wizard. I'm taking down the government. All that's over. Forget the yellow brick road. Pull that up. The road is green now, just like me.

[31:15] Pauls Macs: It'd be a very different outcome. I'd have to pop Glinda's bubble real quick.

[31:20] Teresa Attridge: I love this. I love everything. And this is why we wrote the show together. Also, let's talk about you'd have the power of that incredible riff Cynthia Erivo just did.

[31:28] Harold Hodge Jr: Oh, that's actually a really good point. Does it come with the power? The musical singing power? Because that could change my answer. If I could sing like Cynthia Erivo, I think that changes things.

[31:36] Teresa Attridge: Let's talk about faith. We can't talk about faith without knowing there's a higher power because Cynthia Erivo exists. Period.

[31:44] Pauls Macs: My answer is such a Teresa sneaky little answer. I would be the devil in Damn Yankees.

[31:51] Harold Hodge Jr: We're going devil to devil.

[31:52] Teresa Attridge: I was like, oh, you want to make a deal? You want to make a deal? Because I'm about to make a deal with you, right?

[31:58] Harold Hodge Jr: Damn, that is genius.

[32:00] Teresa Attridge: I'm just saying like, oh no, we've created yet another Lucifer. Like this is a Lucifer Lilith situation. I was like, I fell too.

[32:07] Harold Hodge Jr: I love this.

[32:08] Teresa Attridge: Right? Because then also, this is a musical in itself.

[32:11] Harold Hodge Jr: Yeah, literally.

[32:12] Teresa Attridge: The devil asks you, you get one wish or you get to like, you know, get one power for the musical theater canon. So you're like, okay, great, I'm going to be the devil too, and I'm going to be all powerful. Or it's not even about, this is like a paradox. It's not even about undoing the deal as much as it's like, you think you're hot shit? You think I can't get out of this? I'm the devil. Something is up my sleeve that you don't know about.

[32:31] Harold Hodge Jr: Right? No one can see this.

[32:35] Teresa Attridge: I'm wearing a red lip today. I was feeling feisty. Charlie, Harold, it was so great speaking with you today about your musical, Call Me From The Grave. Where can people learn more? Or what's your next step for Call Me From The Grave?

[32:46] Charlie Romano: Great question. Great question. So you can always learn more at the website CallMeFromTheGrave.com or at the Instagram at CallMeFromTheGraveMusical. The things upcoming, we're working on putting together a studio album, maybe a workshop in New York in the fall. There's a couple theaters we're talking to about doing that. And then, perhaps most excitingly, a regional production in Chicago next season.

[33:10] Pauls Macs: In Chicago, your hometown?

[33:13] Charlie Romano: Oh my gosh, fantastic.

[33:14] Harold Hodge Jr: Yes.

[33:15] Pauls Macs: So are you saying that not only does Robert have to decide whether to go home, so did you, and you made your choice?

[33:21] Charlie Romano: There you go.

[33:22] Harold Hodge Jr: Yes.

[33:23] Teresa Attridge: A lot of parallels in my life with his.

[33:24] Charlie Romano: Yes.

[33:25] Teresa Attridge: Gorgeous. Thank you again so much. It's truly been amazing.

[33:29] Charlie Romano: Yes, thank you.

[33:30] Pauls Macs: And this, I gotta say, the script, I so enjoyed reading over this libretto. The music is killer. The book is so tight. I know that you guys are gonna have an incredible—

[33:40] Charlie Romano: Thank you.

[33:41] Pauls Macs: —regional performance of this. And listen, who knows, maybe I'll show up.

[33:45] Charlie Romano: Hey, you got a seat.

[33:46] Pauls Macs: I'll make a deal with the devil. Charlie and Harold, the story of your collaboration is really fantastic. Harold, you were hesitant at first because you were thinking, does Charlie really want my input or is he just gonna ask me to tweak things? But the fact that Charlie said, I want to start from scratch, I want you to be a true collaborator and that you got the note, your female characters are taking up too much time in the script. They're too well developed.

[34:05] Harold Hodge Jr: Yeah.

[34:07] Pauls Macs: That's fantastic. Thank you so much for being here.

[34:09] Charlie Romano: Thank you, Barnacles, for listening.

[34:11] Teresa Attridge: Barnacles, thanks for sticking with us.

[34:12] Pauls Macs: Thanks for sticking with us.

[34:13] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, that's where the Barnacle joke comes from. It's Theater Barn, Barnacles sticking together.

[34:18] Pauls Macs: Alright, thank you, Teresa and Paul.

[34:20] Charlie Romano: Amazing time with y'all.

[34:21] Harold Hodge Jr: Amazing.

[34:22] All: Bye everyone.

[34:23] All: Bye-bye.

[34:25] All: Bye-bye.

[34:29] Teresa Attridge: Thanks for joining us on New York Theatre Barn's Backstage Pass, hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs. And if you believe in supporting original culture-shifting musicals, please like, subscribe, and share. Get your Backstage Pass.

[34:44] All: Get your Backstage Pass.

[34:55] All: Thanks for watching.