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[0:00] Music

[0:22] Teresa Attridge: Ever wonder what it takes to make a new musical sing? Our mission is to give you an inclusive look behind the scenes. We are interviewing the creatives who are changing musical theater one 11 o'clock number at a time. This is your Backstage Pass.

[0:35] Pauls Macs: Backstage Pass. Get your Backstage Pass.

[0:49] Janine McGuire: I used to hear music. I used to hear music everywhere.

[0:56] Arri Lawton Simon: The world was a symphony. The whole world would sing for me. And I knew the score.

[1:08] Janine McGuire: There was a song in each voice, each bird, each wave crashing ashore.

[1:17] Arri Lawton Simon: I used to hear music, sweet melodies ringing in the air.

[1:26] Janine McGuire: Combining in harmony, the song never far from me, too loud to ignore.

[1:35] Arri Lawton Simon: In every step that I took, each breath, a song ready to start.

[1:46] Janine McGuire: But it all faded out, the tune went away. I listened so hard, it just wouldn't play.

[2:00] Arri Lawton Simon: Now there is silence where song used to be. It could be the world, it might just be me.

[2:17] Teresa Attridge: You're listening to "I Used to Hear Music" from the new musical, The Bubble. Welcome back to our conversation with Janine McGuire and Arri Lawton Simon about this moving and poignant new piece. Adapted from the groundbreaking film, The Bubble follows Noam, an Israeli soldier and musician, and Ashraf, a closeted Palestinian who meet at a border checkpoint and fall in love during the Second Intifada. Supported by their chosen family, the pair construct a utopian bubble in Tel Aviv and risk their lives to be together when the bubble bursts. This explosive new musical pulses with energy, urgency, and unyielding hope for peace, capturing the struggle and resilience of love in a divided world. Listen all the way to the end for a game where we decide which musical theater locations we'd like to visit and which musical theater characters would like to take us there.

And I'll also say when we're adapting from a film, we are taking in so much visual information that then we are translating to sound or to spoken word in some way. We found ourselves inspired by moments in the film where there is just, it's a look in the actor's eyes.

[3:09] Arri Lawton Simon: We're like, that's it, that's the moment. And that's what we then—

[3:22] Janine McGuire: It's close, yeah. We say the close-up becomes the song.

[3:25] Arri Lawton Simon: Yeah. And there are quite a few moments as we figured out the macro structure of this show, where it wasn't just about taking a scene that existed exactly in one way in the film and just adding a song. It was about figuring out what emotional material wanted to sing, in some cases combining some scenes, in some cases inventing moments that weren't explicitly, but we felt would work really well in our show to get something across theatrically. And actually, which does actually bring us to one of the other songs that you do have in the mix, I think, to play today, which is "Love Will Tell You," which is not a moment that we'd actually see exactly on screen in the film, The Bubble, but is sort of a composite of all of the images and journey through Tel Aviv that the entire movie gives us.

I mean, in some ways, the original film, Ahabwa in Hebrew, is a love letter to the city of Tel Aviv. And it's certainly, it's the home and a true love of the filmmakers, Eitan and Gal. We knew that we needed to give the city itself its due. We ultimately decided to create this song where the audience was getting to learn what Tel Aviv was all about, as well as Ashraf, our Palestinian character, experiencing the city for the first time.

[4:37] Pauls Macs: Wow, again, you set up your own song. This is perfect. You guys are literally so great. We'll talk more about it on the other side, but who is performing "Love, Love, Tel Aviv"?

[4:48] Janine McGuire: This is being sung by Omer Shayesh, Christina Alabado, Joél Pérez, John Charles McLaughlin, and Kayley Ann Collins. Here is "Love, Love, Tel Aviv" performed by Omer Shayesh, Christina Alabado, John Charles McLaughlin, Kayley Ann Collins, and Joél Pérez.

[5:25] ♪ Musical number: "Love, Love Tel Aviv" — performed by Omer Shayesh, Christina Alabado, Joél Pérez, John Charles McLaughlin, and Kayley Ann Collins ♪

[9:01] Pauls Macs: This is a jam. I said this is like a vacation in three minutes. I feel like I am refreshed. I feel like I went somewhere. I feel like I lived. I really want to zoom in on this. So you said that you actually went and visited these places. Is that correct?

[9:16] Janine McGuire: That is correct. We took a trip in 2017 and 2018. I didn't know that Tel Aviv was this big metropolitan kind of like party area. It's really great. I just wonder if like listeners don't know about that. It's this love letter to a place that I'm not sure a lot of people are aware of in terms of the geography or cultural landscape of Israel. I definitely want to go to Tel Aviv. But can you talk about your travels and your experience and how you tried to distill Tel Aviv into this song? Because it comes across and I definitely want to go there. Like anywhere you visit, we have ideas about what it's like. We get those ideas because of what we consume about the place. It was our first evening there.

We just walked along the beach and the sun wasn't even totally setting. And we found a poster on a wall that was really inspiring. And we just turned to each other in that moment. And we're like, we could leave right now having just gotten here. And it would have been worth the trip because we understand it in such a different way. Being here, it's everything. It is sights, smells, sounds, relationships. Contradictions.

[10:18] Arri Lawton Simon: Right. Well, it's a place of contradictions. It is old and new all at the same time. It's traditional and it's progressive. It is a place full of contradictions that live in a really, really delicate balance. And it is a bubble, very much so in the region. It is in the same way that New York City feels like a bubble in a lot of ways here in the United States as well. It's fragile, but it's also very powerful and very beautiful. And so just being there and talking to people, hearing and feeling how you're greeted, what it feels like to move through the market where you realize that the sea is because the city is built with its back to the sea. So there is no breeze until you get to a place where there is a breeze and you smell the Mediterranean and you realize that you're there.

And it's just taking in all of those senses of place, people, things, and then infusing it with both the music of place, like those modes that are there, the Phrygian mode and Phrygian dominant mode, which you can Google. But those are really integral to the music of the area. But also you hear American rock and roll and British Invasion hits and things. And it's just a very mixed bag of people from all over the world bringing all of their culture and the food is the same way. It's this incredible, vibrant mix of everything. And it all works harmoniously together in that spot to an extent, as well as it can anywhere. But just trying to find the feeling of what we felt when we were there, when we were writing the song and then when the song felt right to us.

And then, of course, one of the biggest compliments we could possibly get, which is we have gotten from several of our friends, both Israeli and Palestinian, when they hear songs from the score that they say it feels like they're at home.

[11:53] Teresa Attridge: That's so cool. I love that. It's sort of finding the joy in the intersectionality of it, too. Like you're saying, there are so many different influences that come together. When you have a place that feels like a utopia, like it says in the show, or this idea of a bubble or something contained, part of the joy of it is the freedom to explore those things and seeing them working together. I mean, it's what makes Tel Aviv so great or New York City or these meccas of places that people dream about going so that they can find what it feels like to be free or to be alive or to be happy. And I think that the thing that's so powerful, we were talking earlier about how given that it's a show that tackles something really, really serious, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, finding those.

[13:04] Janine McGuire: Welcome back to the show. We're continuing our conversation about The Bubble.

[14:04] Arri Lawton Simon: Yes, and we were discussing the character Noam and his journey.

[14:34] Janine McGuire: Right, Noam's love for Ashraf is a pivotal part of his character development throughout Act 1.

[15:04] Arri Lawton Simon: Exactly. His growing love for Ashraf helps him rediscover a part of himself that he had set aside due to the pain of losing his mother.

[15:06] Janine McGuire: And the dire circumstances he and his friends are living through.

[15:08] Arri Lawton Simon: He has this moment where he performs a song that his mother used to sing to him during an open mic night.

[15:10] Janine McGuire: This performance represents both his love for Ashraf and his connection to his mother.

[15:12] Arri Lawton Simon: The song is performed by Omer Shayesh and our Green Room 42 Ensemble.

[15:14] Janine McGuire: Fantastic. Here’s "Le'Olam" performed by Omer Shayesh and the Green Room 42 Ensemble.

[15:16] ♪ Musical number: "Le'Olam" — performed by Omer Shayesh and the Green Room 42 Ensemble ♪

[19:00] Janine McGuire: This is such a sweet song. It's really lovely and gives off an energy that feels familiar.

[19:02] Arri Lawton Simon: It resonates with the world we're trying to create, where love is what remains.

[19:04] Janine McGuire: The meaning of the song deepens when you realize Noam hasn't picked up his guitar in years.

[19:06] Arri Lawton Simon: Yes, and his relationship with Ashraf is healing him, allowing him to rediscover himself.

[19:08] Janine McGuire: The connection to his mother adds another layer; it’s not just romantic love but a healing of his whole being.

[19:10] Arri Lawton Simon: There’s also a mournful quality to the song, reflecting the tragedy within its beauty.

[19:12] Janine McGuire: We wanted to incorporate idiomatic or foreign language hooks in Arabic and Hebrew throughout the show.

[19:14] Arri Lawton Simon: This expression of "Le'Olam" felt really beautiful and came together quickly.

[19:16] Janine McGuire: It was a moment where we understood what the song needed to be.

[19:18] Arri Lawton Simon: And when people respond to this song, whether in context or out, we feel honored.

[19:20] Janine McGuire: Connecting to the idea of love that lasts forever is deeply human and central to our story.

[19:22] Arri Lawton Simon: The way the music swells when we sing this song is powerful, allowing everyone to share in that common humanity.

[19:24] Janine McGuire: This song will return at the end of the play in a very meaningful way.

[19:26] Arri Lawton Simon: I don't want to spoil the ending, but it’s a significant moment.

[19:28] Janine McGuire: Many great love stories, like Romeo and Juliet or West Side Story, explore love amidst conflict.

[19:30] Arri Lawton Simon: Yes, and our characters are not naive; they’ve experienced personal loss and heartache.

[19:32] Janine McGuire: They find light in one another despite the dangers surrounding them.

[19:34] Arri Lawton Simon: It’s about seeing humanity in each other, even when they’ve been taught to believe otherwise.

[19:36] Janine McGuire: These are adults who have lived through tumultuous times and still find a way to love.

[19:38] Arri Lawton Simon: It’s tricky to portray that realistically, but it’s essential to the story.

[19:40] Janine McGuire: The hope is that people will see the peace in the story and recognize its relevance today.

[19:42] Arri Lawton Simon: Did you work with any dramaturgical experts to explore these conflicts?

[19:44] Janine McGuire: Every person who has interacted with this piece has been a teacher, whether officially or not.

[19:46] Arri Lawton Simon: We’ve had support from organizations like Goodspeed and BMI, and we’ve had table reads with friends.

[19:48] Janine McGuire: We discussed the movie and our adaptation extensively with people from Israel and Palestine.

[19:50] Arri Lawton Simon: We also consulted with the filmmakers and hired cultural consultants to ensure authenticity.

[19:52] Janine McGuire: It has taken a village to create the community that informs the many layers of this piece.

[19:54] Arri Lawton Simon: We’re grateful to everyone who has impacted it.

[19:56] Janine McGuire: I was also thinking about Romeo and Juliet while working on this piece.

[19:58] Arri Lawton Simon: Making that comparison can impose a Western lens, but it’s a relevant connection.

[20:00] Janine McGuire: It’s encouraging to see that love amidst conflict is still a theme today.

[20:02] Arri Lawton Simon: It makes you wish humanity could get past these divisions.

[25:10] Janine McGuire: I love Shakespeare, but that particular piece I struggle with because the characters do feel naive to me. I'm always thinking, oh my gosh, Romeo was in love with Rosalind like last week. I have a quote from the balcony scene in my engagement ring. But all this to say that these characters don't feel naive. These characters feel really real. And I was able to embrace their love story. And you said you've never seen queer love represented on stage. I think that's really amazing to see a Romeo and Juliet story told with queer people and creating that space for like, yes, queer people have the same experiences, have the same love, are still trying to find that love in those spaces of conflict even today.

Shining a light to that is really, really important. Also, MENA actors, Middle Eastern and North African actors are the second least represented group on Broadway. And so it's always wonderful to make sure that people have a voice in their own stories, that they have an opportunity to be seen and heard. And the last thing about the Romeo and Juliet comparison, I'll say that even if we talk about like Romeo and Juliet being like a Western story with a Western lens, you will never have in any culture, any story about conflict where there is not a love story there. It is the universal trope in every culture that as long as there has been war, there has also been love. And there have been people who have questioned, you know, what we place higher that is so deeply human and universal. And the fact that we're having this specific story, specificity is the gateway into universal understanding.

[26:44] Arri Lawton Simon: Amazing. Amazing. We just heard this really, really powerful song. And we've been talking a lot about the tragedy of the piece, but the tragedy can exist without light as well. So would you please set up the song Yalla Yalla? We'd love to share that with the listeners.

[26:58] Janine McGuire: So Yalla Yalla happens at the top of Act Two. And even though we've been interacting with one of our central characters, Ashraf, one of our two leads who is Palestinian, and we have been privy to some voicemails and things, and so we've seen a little bit of his family, we don't actually go to Palestine until Act Two. And it was really important for us that the curtain comes up on a different world. It starts there and Rana, they're twins in our story. His sister has been at college, and she's back home now. And she's back home in their hometown, getting ready for her wedding. He's meeting her there to go home and start for the festivities and everything. And so this is upon her arrival and reconnecting with her brother, who's also her best friend, and just introducing us and reintroducing herself to her beloved hometown.

[27:45] Arri Lawton Simon: Fantastic. And who is performing this song?

[27:47] Janine McGuire: This is performed by our dear friend Sahar Malani. Here is Yalla Yalla performed by Sahar Malani.

[28:20] ♪ Musical number: "Yalla Yalla" — performed by Sahar Malani ♪

[30:02] Arri Lawton Simon: This is wedding planning energy, like you feel that energy moving and you get to know this character. I feel like this podcast, more than any podcast we've ever done, we've talked to a lot of writers at this point, is like a masterclass in using a song both to get to know a character intimately and also to get to know a place intimately. You somehow managed to imbue that in both ways in this song.

[30:27] Janine McGuire: Well, thank you. Thank you. And also, you know, we're in through this through again, through an idiomatic phrase in Arabic. You hear it everywhere. Everybody says that they say in Israel, they pronounce it differently. They say, you know, Yalla Yalla, but like it is of the world there and you hear it constantly. Yalla, let's go. Let's go. Yalla. It's just so ubiquitous. And it's like, well, that's, yeah, you're gonna hear one thing, and such a great, so smart to have it back, too. So we know that we're getting back in our show. Character and setting are so inextricably linked. I think it makes sense to us to approach them musically at the same time in one.

[31:00] Arri Lawton Simon: Absolutely. I mean, speaking of places, I think it's time for us to get into our game. How about you, pals?

[31:04] Janine McGuire: Oh, sure. I can't wait. Oh, Janine's excited. Janine's like, I want to play.

[31:10] Arri Lawton Simon: All right. So this is a fan favorite segment because it's where we all just remember we're a bunch of nerds getting a little goofy. So for every guest, we do invent a new game. And this week, the game is going to be Love, Love, Place to Be, like Love, Love, Tel Aviv, except for in this case, the question is, if you were going to have a musical theater character or group of characters that were going to whisk you away into their version of Tel Aviv, their utopia, their beautiful place that they want to show you the ins and outs of so you could fall in love with it. What characters are you picking? And where are you going?

[31:48] Janine McGuire: I personally, I am a Sala Salou girl. I'm getting the Cat in the Hat. I'm getting Horton. I'm getting Jojo. We're going to put on our imagineering hats and we're going to go to Sala Salou. It's going to be beautiful. The breezes are warm there and people are kind. Like what more could you want?

[32:01] Arri Lawton Simon: Incredible. We're with you on that. Okay, so the first thing that came to my mind is, shall we go to the Jellicle Ball?

[32:10] Janine McGuire: Oh, absolutely. Shout out to Jalen. We love him.

[32:14] Arri Lawton Simon: We love Jalen.

[32:15] Janine McGuire: Jalen is brought up on the podcast a lot. Do you want to see me make the Jellicle Choice? That's so classic.

[32:19] Arri Lawton Simon: Incredible. We'd love to see it.

[32:20] Janine McGuire: Yeah, he's great. And that we loved. We saw it twice together. It was a favorite production of ours. We're obsessed. I personally enjoy Cats, you know, the original musical. I also saw that on Broadway and, you know, love it as a piece and as a piece of music. But what was done on stage downtown was we thought just incredible. And talk about just, you know, community and identity, really creating a space for people of a lot of different identities and perspectives to feel welcome. However, you walked into that theater. I think you were. That's where I would like to take you. And which cat are you having as your ultimate guide?

[32:55] Arri Lawton Simon: Oh, all of the cats. But who do we love? We loved Skimbleshank.

[32:59] Janine McGuire: The cat on the railway train?

[33:01] Arri Lawton Simon: Truly, the ensemble cast was phenomenal.

[33:04] Janine McGuire: God, this is so hard. Where do you want to take me?

[33:08] Arri Lawton Simon: I love that even in this game, you're going together like that is a team. I'm going to go with something that's very new in my life, but rocketed immediately to the top of my list. It may be my favorite new show of the 21st century. It's definitely my favorite thing I've seen in like the last 15 years. I think that I would love to go with Oliver and Claire to Jeju Island.

[33:29] Janine McGuire: Yes, maybe happy ending. Happy ending. We also saw this together. I want to go see The Last Remaining Fireflies on Earth and be in the rain and like see the Santa Claus red hat and red jacket.

[33:43] Arri Lawton Simon: I haven't seen it yet and have no context. And so that was so beautiful.

[33:48] Janine McGuire: I've been trying to go.

[33:51] Arri Lawton Simon: I'm going in with my sly advertisement for it.

[33:54] Janine McGuire: I'm booking my flight on Alaska Airlines right now.

[33:58] Arri Lawton Simon: I've been selling tickets for that show.

[34:00] Janine McGuire: Consider yourself having sold another. I was already going to go, but I'm like, what do you mean there's a Santa Claus hat? I need context. I better go.

[34:07] Arri Lawton Simon: I co-sign. On an emotional level, it delivers so much. On a musical level, we could not stop playing songs. I mean, literally the next day, Eric and I were just voice memoing each other back and forth after seeing the show, just singing each other our favorite parts, quoting each other's favorite parts. And we're both big fans. It's an incredible show that we admire so much. And honestly, it's that kind of show, too, where, you know, when that gets through the entire theatrical pipeline and it gets to Broadway, I think we should all be celebrating that. It's just a real feat of art. And then a reminder and an inspiration to all of us creating new shows right now of just how high the bar can be just to keep holding ourselves to high standards of excellence. Because that show certainly does. Every word.

[34:46] Janine McGuire: Absolutely. Preach on that, Janine. Preach on that. And pals, round us out. Where are you? Where are you going?

[34:51] Arri Lawton Simon: I'm going to do this very short and sweet. I misinterpreted the game. I was like, oh, well, I'll take Toby and I'll have him go to the woods and be like the child of the Bakers. So the Baker son has an older brother. I realized I need to go somewhere. So I'm gonna make it short and sweet. I'm going to have Barnaby take me to the world of Hello, Dolly! Because I believe the world of Hello, Dolly! represents a golden age of America that probably never actually existed, an age where the President of the United States did not cancel funding for the National Endowment for the Arts. Dolly Levi would never allow it.

[35:23] Janine McGuire: Never. She would have a stern talking to with the President. And then she would have a stern talking to with the President. Dolly Levi in front of the Supreme Court arguing for the arts is actually the show we all deserve. That's the musical I want to see.

[35:33] Arri Lawton Simon: Also, you'd get to put on your Sunday clothes, which has one of the best musical vamps ever.

[35:39] Janine McGuire: Absolutely. I completely agree with you.

[35:44] Arri Lawton Simon: Instant happiness. Instant.

[35:45] Janine McGuire: There's a reason that's the song that plays when you walk into the theater.

[35:47] Arri Lawton Simon: There's a reason that song is in WALL-E. Let's go there. A robot at the end of the world, and the one song he listens to is put on your Sunday clothes.

[35:56] Janine McGuire: What a freaking nerd. WALL-E would love this podcast.

[35:59] Arri Lawton Simon: Well, Janine and Ari, where can listeners go if they want to continue following your show or support your show?

[36:05] Janine McGuire: We are mcguireandsimon.com or slash or at everywhere. So yes, you can follow everything about the bubble and our other projects at all of those places on all the platforms, social media, past, present, and future. And additionally, we're at an interesting point for the show where we are looking for ways to have it seen as a full production. As we move toward that, we will have more information to share with folks soon. Yeah, if anyway you want to hop on board and follow us on the internet, you'll be the first to know.

[36:36] Arri Lawton Simon: I love that. That was a tease. That's perfect.

[36:39] Janine McGuire: All right. Well, we love, loved talking to the two of you. An incredible team, an incredible show. It really was a blast. Just seeing the bond between the two of you. That was that was it for me. That was it.

[36:54] Arri Lawton Simon: Thank you for sharing your time with us this evening. Thank you for sharing your show with us. Truly, truly grateful to have been able to review these materials. And now I'm grateful to have the opportunity to share.

[37:03] Janine McGuire: That's you, Barnacles.

[37:04] Arri Lawton Simon: Janine, Ari, thank you. That's you, Barnacles. Thank you for being here.

[37:08] Janine McGuire: Thank you for having us.

[37:09] Arri Lawton Simon: Thank you for having us.

[37:10] Teresa Attridge: All right. Goodbye, Barnacles. Goodbye, everybody. We'll see you again soon.

[37:18] Teresa Attridge: Thanks for joining us on New York Theatre Barn's Backstage Pass, hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs. And if you believe in supporting original culture-shifting musicals, please like, subscribe, and share.