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[0:00] Teresa Attridge: Backstage Pass, we're world class, with even more in store. Get your Backstage Pass, masterclass, with even more in store.

[0:22] Pauls Macs: Ever wonder what it takes to make a new musical sing? Our mission is to make the exclusive, inclusive.

[0:28] Teresa Attridge: We're interviewing the creatives who are changing musical theater one 11 o'clock number at a time.

[0:33] Pauls Macs: This is your Backstage Pass.

[0:35] Teresa Attridge: Get your Backstage Pass. Get your Backstage Pass.

[0:43] Pauls Macs: This week, we continue our conversation with Martin Storrow, creator of the new musical King of Pangea.

[0:49] Martin Storrow: After a sudden loss shatters his world apart, 21-year-old Christopher Crow travels back to the imaginary island of his childhood in hopes of finding the answers that will bring the pieces back together.

[1:00] Pauls Macs: This new musical, inspired by the playwright's own lived experience, is a fantasy musical memoir that weaves realism, humor, and whimsy into a unique theatrical experience.

[1:10] Teresa Attridge: Discover the true meaning of becoming a king or queen of one's own heart with King of Pangea.

[1:15] Pauls Macs: This episode features demo recordings of the songs King of Pangea and Today I Am Here.

[1:20] Martin Storrow: I will say, because we're talking a lot about big themes of grief and vulnerability and interconnectedness, the show was also very funny.

[1:28] Pauls Macs: I feel like we...

[1:29] Martin Storrow: Yeah.

[1:30] Pauls Macs: There were a lot of moments I was reading the script, and I did just laugh.

[1:34] Martin Storrow: Oh, I'm glad to hear that.

[1:36] Pauls Macs: It was one of the things I really loved about this script. Specifically, I love the character of Elijah.

[1:41] Martin Storrow: Oh, I'm glad you brought up Elijah. Yeah.

[1:43] Pauls Macs: Oh, yeah. Would you actually mind telling us more about how Elijah came to be?

[1:47] Martin Storrow: Yeah, so Elijah is a prophet that Christopher meets, really the first person that he meets after losing his mom, and I think he sort of conjures Elijah. Elijah is not the prophet Elijah, but a prophet Elijah.

[2:00] Pauls Macs: That's hilarious.

[2:01] Martin Storrow: Elijah, in many ways, is like a guide to Christopher and sort of like gives him these three coins and helps to launch him onto the journey and then ultimately like meets him and helps him to sort of fulfill his journey on Pangea. Beneath that, I think Elijah, to me, represents that deeper wisdom that we all have within ourselves, that we all hold, that we don't always access in the day to day, but it's always there. It's like that voice that sort of knows all the things that our brains don't always know and is able to sort of push Christopher to confront things, but can do it in a way that's like totally disarming and goofy at times and can be downright silly.

[2:38] Pauls Macs: At what point did Elijah become a character in the show for you?

[2:42] Martin Storrow: When it originally started, it was a series of songs about Pangea and then you decided to make it about your grief journey and sort of learning more about your mother and your family. Where does a thousand-year-old prophet who speaks in riddles and gives you three coins even like start to enter the picture?

[2:58] Pauls Macs: Yeah, how did that appear? How did that reveal itself to you?

[3:02] Martin Storrow: Day one. Elijah was there from day one.

[3:04] Pauls Macs: What?

[3:05] Martin Storrow: And when I say day one, I mean like when I first started sketching out like the concept of Pangea. It was actually back in like 2008. I have this old notebook. Elijah was inspired by, I lived in San Diego at the time and I used to go down to La Jolla Cove, which is just this like beautiful. I don't know if you've spent time and gone to La Jolla Playhouse or anything, but like there's this La Jolla Cove and it's like this magical cove and seals will just come up on the beach sometimes. You can see dolphins sometimes. It's just this like magical place. And I used to go there with a notebook and like just journal and write. There was this man, this like very mysterious sort of like bird-like old man who would come down to the cove every morning, very early with like a swim cap on. He would just like jump into the water and he would kind of like swim out into the ocean and swim back and disappear.

[3:50] Pauls Macs: My jaw on the floor.

[3:51] Martin Storrow: That was my inspiration for Elijah. I didn't know what the story was about, but I knew it was this kid is showing up on an island and who is he going to meet? This thousand-year-old prophet who's going to sort of like open up this world to him.

[4:02] Pauls Macs: I'm literally dead. That is so funny.

[4:04] Martin Storrow: I wish I knew who he was. Maybe that's why we don't. Also like in the Jewish tradition, the prophet Elijah is this sort of mysterious character who is said to show up at every Passover Seder and come into your house. You open the door at one point in the Seder and Elijah comes in and drinks this wine that you've left on the table for him and then sort of just leaves.

[4:23] Pauls Macs: Peace out.

[4:24] Martin Storrow: The game that we always played was like, who can catch grandpa in the act of drinking that wine when we're not looking?

[4:32] Pauls Macs: You mean Elijah?

[4:33] Martin Storrow: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Elijah. It's like when you're a kid with Santa or it's like, am I going to find the presents in the closet or in the trunk? Am I going to prove Santa's not real?

[4:40] Pauls Macs: Oh my gosh. Can we just prove Santa's not real on the podcast?

[4:45] Martin Storrow: Wait, don't.

[4:46] Pauls Macs: Wait a minute. Santa is real though, right?

[4:48] Martin Storrow: All the children listening to the pod, sorry to burst your little bubble.

[4:52] Pauls Macs: All the children barnacles.

[4:54] Martin Storrow: All the mini barnacles. Skip, skip, skip, skip, skip through this part. Talking about Elijah was the perfect transition into our third demo, which is King of Pangaea, actually, which is sung by Elijah.

[5:05] Pauls Macs: Would you like to tell us about this song?

[5:07] Martin Storrow: And I love this song because it's definitely got a different flavor than all the other songs in the piece.

[5:12] Martin Storrow: Yeah, this is sort of mysterious, too. This one was one of the earliest songs I wrote. It's undergone a lot of transformation since the original version. It was sort of nearly cut and replaced and rewritten, but the initial chord progression has stayed. This song is really fascinating to me. So this song takes place when Christopher finally arrives on the island of Pangaea. There's sort of a journey that requires multiple stops. But he finally arrives on this island expecting to be embraced by this huge community and realizes that there's only one other person on the island and it's Elijah. And Elijah says, listen, the way through this is to become king of the island. Once you become king and sort of implies that once Christopher becomes king, he'll maybe get to see his mom again.

And the pieces that have been broken apart, maybe we'll come back together. So this is sort of the song where Elijah is laying out all of this. The idea of a king to me is complicated. It feels like it's gendered. It's problematic in so many ways in terms of just the history of what monarchs have done and what patriarchy is and all of these things. But I've tried to sort of reimagine the concept or sort of like reframe the idea of sovereignty in this show as something that is intimate. That is something that we grant ourselves and that each person carries within us. It's not an external designation. So when I think about this song, I think the idea and even just the name of the show and why is this called King of Pangaea?

The idea that sovereignty is both elusive but also always present. We can always access our sovereignty. And so I think that this song is sort of introducing the concept of sovereignty and sort of planting a seed for Christopher that there is something to self-knowledge, to healing that is directly connected to feeling something resembling control again or feeling that sovereignty of self. This demo is sung by Michael Kostroff. This is sort of the most produced demo that we have in terms of instrumentation. And that's because my dear friend Dan Diaz, who did all the instrumentation and produced this track as well.

[7:02] Pauls Macs: Fantastic. Well, here is King of Pangaea performed by Michael Kostroff.

[7:06] ♪ Musical number: "King of Pangaea" — performed by Michael Kostroff ♪

[9:51] Martin Storrow: That song I love because it's sweeping and epic, but also like uplifting and funny. The thing with Elijah for me is you got to make him laugh before they'll cry. And he does provide that function within the piece so clearly.

[10:05] Pauls Macs: Oh, thanks.

[10:06] Martin Storrow: One thing I love about Elijah's trajectory is that Elijah is somebody who can't die when we meet him. He is physically incapable of dying for some reason. His journey in some ways runs in this strange counter to Christopher's, which is like the only thing that Elijah wants is the privilege of passing away. And Christopher is dealing with, obviously, death as opposition, as conflict. And we're able to really play with that, which I love. Elijah sings a song when we first meet him, and the song is called Everyone I Love is Dead. And it's just this harrowing tale of a thousand years of living and how you literally see all of these people come and go. And just that there's something actually funny about that and sort of tragic at the same time.

And I just love that Elijah creates an opportunity to play with these concepts and to play with death in a way that sort of allows the audience to exhale a little bit. I don't know if you experienced that at NAMMT, but one of the things I love about that moment when we meet Elijah is that we've just undergone this. We've gone through a pretty rough journey with Christopher. And I think the audience has sort of resolved that, OK, the show is going to be about one thing. And they've sort of girded themselves for that. And then you get Elijah and you can just see everybody like relax, relax and laugh. And I'm sure you saw that in the audience.

[11:16] Pauls Macs: It's a great feeling to be able to let people know that it's OK to talk about dying. If you can do it with like a little swagger, a little like wink, wink, a little nudge, nudge, a little five, six, seven, eight. Why not? Why not?

[11:29] Martin Storrow: It's also like so fun that Elijah gets to embody that sort of old school vaudeville, like classic traditional musical theater voice that the characters don't really have.

[11:40] Pauls Macs: Oh yeah. That just became clear to me is that he does have that much more traditional voice as opposed to other voices that are more singer songwriter. And I love that blending of the two languages. It's really fantastic.

[11:50] Martin Storrow: It's really fun to play around with those differences.

[11:53] Martin Storrow: The sort of chemistry of a cast because of young Christopher and Elijah, you get to have, you know, everybody from age 7 to 70 on stage. Those interactions are really interesting and meaningful to see. I think you were saying, Teresa, earlier that you love a kid on stage.

[12:07] Teresa Attridge: I do. I just, there are so many people who are like, I don't want to see a child actor on stage. I was like, you're a hater. I don't care about you. Get out of my life. Seeing children on stage to me is really magical. Not just because I'm like, look at how talented that kid is. Isn't that swell? It's not like the one trick pony of stand and proclaim and sing loud. But there's something about children who are allowed to know that they're important in a room full of adults and take up space and say, it's my turn. And I think a lesson that you take with you as an adult, obviously, but there's something so powerful about watching children take space in that way and to have adults honor them. I mean, I work with kids.

I love kids. And I think that there are very few instances in which they're allowed to stand in their power in that kind of context. Anytime I see a kid on stage, I'm like, kudos, babe. I'm your stage mom. Me. I'm every child's stage mom. I don't care if they're the most talented child alive. I don't care if they stand there and look at their feet and mumble. I'm like, you are somebody. And I love that.

[13:08] Martin Storrow: I feel like often the sort of unfair version is to paint kids as like, oh, simple and kind of like they're for levity. I think the real version is, and the reason why I love having young Christopher in the show is like, kids are wise and profound and connected to life in ways that adults sometimes aren't. So having the kid who went through this experience and sort of is like trying to help heal his older self, but also knows that he needs healing, and that there's like limits to his own understanding. I feel like young Christopher operates as that personification of the hope, because at the beginning, we see that mom goes into remission, we beat it. So there's this moment where young Christopher is like, as long as we're positive, and we're hopeful, we're gonna get through it.

And then for a while, it worked. And so young Christopher, even though in that moment, like that scary moment, the waiting room and trying to find the puzzle pieces and the stress of that day, ultimately, young Christopher is almost the idea of but it could be okay. And then older Christopher, that scene at the end, so devastating of like, did she die? Older Christopher has a conversation with young Christopher towards the end of the play. Break that to your younger self, right? Because so much of grief is just revisiting versions of yourself and giving your younger self permission to like be in the thing you denied. They say that grieving is a spiral. It's not a line. And this idea that if your life is a spiral, and it's continually going outward, grief is a line drawn straight through it, even though your circle gets wider, and it takes more time to hit that line to grow is to hit that line. And you're going to confront it over and over and over again.

[14:43] Teresa Attridge: There's this play by David Lindsay-Abaire about grief that I love, Rabbit Hole.

[14:48] Martin Storrow: Oh, yeah, Rabbit Hole is a classic. It's like devastating. This is part of the student mind is like I get to discover it's devastating. But one of the things they talk about is that there's a woman who's lost her son. And she and her mother are having a conversation because the grandmother lost a son as well, the main character's brother, but obviously, they were adults, and they lost him for a different reason. And so that's a huge conflict in the play is that the mother's trying to connect to be like, I've also lost a child. And the mom is like, No, but I lost a child. It's not the same. But one of the scenes where they finally come together is Becca finally asks her mother, does it ever go away?

And the mom says, No, you learn to carry it. She says it becomes a brick in your pocket. And at first, when you have the brick, all you feel is the weight and you can't stop thinking about it. And eventually, you become strong enough that you have it and you don't notice it all the time because you've grown with it. But you slip your hand in your pocket to get something and you feel the brick and you're like, right there it is. And I feel like I thought about that sentiment a lot as well. And reading the piece is the idea of Christopher is still at the point where the brick has just been put in his pocket and that all he can feel is the brick in the pocket. I think one of the really beautiful things about the show is that we see him a year later. And it's not that that brick has gotten lighter, as much as we see that he's become, you can see that he's learned how to carry the weight, he's become stronger.

[16:07] Teresa Attridge: You made reference to this idea of a spiral and grief is a spiral in this line through and it's so fascinating because I hadn't heard that before. But people have asked in my mind, like, what does the map look like? And to me, the map is a spiral. I've always said that it is a journey inward. When you said that, I was like, yes, of course, that's so resonant, and it makes so much sense. We are right here, Martin.

[16:33] Martin Storrow: Yeah, I mean, it's right there. The other thing I'll say about young Christopher, the actors who have stepped into the role of young Christopher, and there have been a handful of them now, it's tricky, it's challenging, because the actors that we work with, they're often like right on the cusp of a moment where their voices are about to change. And they're sort of like, they're moving from being children to embodying different roles and sort of like growing, like growing and hitting puberty. But each of these actors who and these artists who have stepped into the role of young Christopher have taught us so much. It's not an anomaly. There have been five or six of these actors, and every time they come into the room, and they tend to be like, they're like these little adults who come in, and they are wise beyond their years.

And they ask these profound questions that actually like move the cast forward and move the piece forward. So I just have like so much gratitude, starting with Travis Burnett, who was like the first kid who stepped into the role. It's very bittersweet to work with the young Christopher crowd, because there is this moment of parting and of grieving the fact that these actors can't venture forward on the journey. And in a way, young Christopher is its own hangia.

[17:36] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, yeah, it's constantly breaking off into these other aspects.

[17:41] Martin Storrow: Well said, and I think we should play "Today I Am Here," which is actually very well connected to what we are just talking about right now. And being grateful for being in the present moment.

[17:50] Teresa Attridge: Yes, last forever. "Today I Am Here" actually is the most recent song that was added to the show. And it was written after NAMMT after Barn on Fire. It was actually written in Oklahoma City in April, or sorry, I should say in March, and we put it in the show. I finished the song the night before our first preview and put it in the show. The next day, I'm really, really glad that that song revealed itself because I actually now I can't imagine the piece without it. And essentially, the context for "Today I Am Here" is that the line "Today I Am Here" is taken from a poem that my mom actually wrote is the last poem that she wrote. It's engraved, there's a quote from the poem engraved on her headstone.

And it's quoted in the show at the end of the show. The context in terms of the story is that Christopher sort of hits bottom on his journey, the answers he has been hoping for don't materialize, the idea of seeing his mom again doesn't materialize. And he's sort of just like left in the emptiness of this place. And now I'm like giving away granular information. So you can decide how much of this you want to include. But basically all of it.

[18:44] Martin Storrow: So yeah, this is all fantastic. He discovers that inside this map that his mom has drawn on the back of an envelope are a collection of poems that she has left for him. And that this is as close as she's going to be able to come to speaking with him and sort of giving him something after she's gone. And so now we turn to Celia speaking as he opens the envelope and pulls out the poetry.

[19:05] Teresa Attridge: That's fantastic. Yeah, she is just an excellent artist who came to us through Richard Israel, the director.

[19:10] Martin Storrow: Oh, to Richard, who I've met a few times. Richard's fantastic. Hi, Richard. Be friends with Richard now. Richard hit me up. He has been I really have to say doing book music lyrics obviously comes with its share of challenges and having a director like Richard, who is so in the work and so in the heart of the piece has been just incredible. I'm so grateful to him. So this song is sung by Bryonha Marie Parham.

[19:37] ♪ Musical number: "Today I Am Here" — performed by Bryonha Marie Parham ♪

[22:09] Teresa Attridge: That song, my heart. Yeah, very, very powerful.

[22:12] Martin Storrow: Yeah, that was a that was one to the first time I heard it I was like, oh cool I'm gonna cry on the podcast it's gonna be it's gonna be a crying podcast. I almost cried on the last podcast but this is two casts in a row but this is like different cry this is like call your parents cry.

[22:46] Teresa Attridge: Oh yeah no that's immediately what I'm doing after this episode absolutely I'm calling my mom.

[22:51] Martin Storrow: I'm calling my mom for sure call your parents.

[22:56] Teresa Attridge: My mom she'll be so distracted she'll be like yeah hi you love what exactly what are you what are you calling about.

[23:01] Martin Storrow: I've been doing it all episodes so I'm gonna do it one more time I'm gonna read some lyrics but today you are here somewhere you've never been before so hold every breath for half a second more and I did that I did that I held my breath I'm here in this moment I am present so easy to get distracted by life and to forget that thank you.

[23:20] Martin Storrow: And I I'm really grateful that I mean first of all I'm just really grateful that my mom's voice ended up in the show I think she was a poet she was a writer she was someone whose art also came from her heart because of the trajectory of her life and the you know the challenges that presented themselves to her she never got to fully realize her art in the world so I love that especially get you know when we've done the show most recently in Oklahoma it was just cool to hear her words every night and to like feel that she was present in that space. It's beautiful.

[23:46] Pauls Macs: Because it's not only a tribute to her but it's an inheritance for you.

[23:51] Martin Storrow: Yes. The other thing I have to say is I just love the way you talk about your artistry because I talk about that when I'm directing and I say people are like, well, what is it? What is this moment? Or what is this image going to be? And I'm like, it hasn't revealed itself yet. And sometimes that can be very, very frustrating for collaborators and I totally get it. But if it's not revealed yet, it's not revealed yet. And I have staged the final image of shows on the final rehearsal because until I get there, I can't see it sometimes. But you just have to give it the time to reveal itself. And if you do, it creates something that's truly, truly beautiful. And I can feel that in this piece for sure.

See, dramaturgy of me is like absolutely and actor me is like, I'm having a heart attack. But that's that is the work for all of us, right? Is like, can we sit in the discomfort of not knowing for long enough to allow something to arrive with us in that moment? And in my experience, it always arrives. It always does. It always comes even if it's at like the last minute. It's because it has to.

[24:49] Pauls Macs: Yes. And it's hard to have faith in that it really is. And I felt this way about the show. And I feel it in talking to the two of you. I felt it on fire. Now, I've always believed and I felt it like in the living room when we were doing, you know, readings in the living room in LA before we even knew what the show is. I've always believed that the show will reveal itself and that the people who are meant to be part of the show will reveal themselves too. We've called it like the big tent philosophy just because of the party tent, just that like the tent will always be big enough. We just have to trust that people will arrive in the space with us. And it's always happened. Like the right people just showed up and like here I am. It's really cool.

[25:25] Martin Storrow: I remember you saying that two years ago, very vividly. And I love that you're still feel that and are still saying that today. And I'm sure I'm sure it is still true.

[25:34] Pauls Macs: We've hit another point in the spiral. We're back.

[25:36] Martin Storrow: Yes, we've spiraled inward in a good way.

[25:40] Pauls Macs: At the end of every episode, as our barnacles know, we'd like to play a little game that we tailor to the shows. Now in King of Pangea, there is a part of the show where Christopher is given three coins. And if he throws the coins in water, whether it's the ocean or a toilet or whatever, they specifically are like, it's not precious, just throw it in some water. It's also very funny. The show is funny. So you know, it's really funny. The coins can take him anywhere he wants to go. But it's a one way thing. He just he takes it and goes, I wanted to ask for this game. It's called rule of three, right? Rule because King three because three coins, what three musical theater worlds would you use your three coins to go to? Write like in your mind when you think of like fantastical musical theater locales settings, where would you go?

[26:19] Martin Storrow: So I know I've got to get to Sala Salu. The breezes are warm there and people are kind like, I remember staging that number and there was lots of swaying. Oh, I listen, my senior year of high school, I was that girl. Then I also said Oz. If I were the king of Oz, those animals would have rights. And so with the munchkins also, it's cute and it's magical and it's green. But I was like, let's like focus on like the socio-economic issues here because there's a lot. Third I was like, Oh, no, no, I'm really stuck. Because part of me is like, do I want to go to the castle on a cloud? Apparently there is a room that's full of toys. But that's like a deep cut reference trees. I don't know what 100 of them but the toys and the lady in white and she like sings me lullabies.

That sounds so nice. So I heard that or I was gonna be a little cheeky and be like, I want to go no place like home because I gotta get back. So Dorothy's like, there's no place like home. I'm like my home specifically, not Kansas.

[27:24] Pauls Macs: Those are all brilliant, brilliant choices. Martin, do you want to go or should I go?

[27:28] Martin Storrow: Why don't you go? I'm still I'm gonna marinate for another. Yeah, yeah.

[27:33] Pauls Macs: Well, it's so funny, because for whatever reason, my mind went to places I don't want to visit first ornery. So I chose places I don't want to be the king of, by the way, I have to say this, I really love the way that you're recontextualizing the word king loves because like, I didn't bother me at first until you mentioned it. Because as a child, right, that I think that's how I justify it. As a child, we're so often introduced into what a king is. It's such like a powerful concept. But the way that you've kind of created nuance within that concept, I think is really, really fantastic. But so places that I wanted to have perhaps sovereignty of or didn't want, actually, I should say, I don't want to go to you're in town.

I don't want to go to Hadestown. And also, I don't want to be king of Avenue Q. But places I do want to visit, I actually want to go to the world of Hello, Dolly. I believe that Hello, Dolly, especially the film represents a slice of Americana, like a made up America that never really existed. You know, you're gonna put on your Sunday clothes.

[28:30] Martin Storrow: Exactly. It's like when you walk into Main Street USA, when you walk into Disney World or Disneyland, they literally playing put on your Sunday clothes that place going to Disneyland or Disney World is like the closest thing to it. I think I just want to be in that world where like, everything just is beautiful. And everything works out and people can dance and sing that is so evocative. And yet I think the thing that's complicated about it is as I've grown older, I believe that place never actually existed. I used to believe it existed as a young person.

[29:01] Pauls Macs: You can always just cheat and you could do Disneyland from smile. There's a whole song about just go to actual Disneyland.

[29:07] Martin Storrow: Okay, let's go to Disneyland. Maybe I'll do that. I also want to go to the grotto from Phantom of the Opera in like the boat. I want to go on that boat ride. I want to be hanging out down there. I'm like, how did this get down here underneath this opera house? I don't know why. I just want to hang out in that grotto and have a drink or something. It seems like a cool spot. And finally, I said the ocean liner from Anything Goes, the SS American, because I haven't been on a cruise in a long time. And Pauls needs a cruise. Let's be honest.

[29:27] Pauls Macs: You deserve it too.

[29:29] Martin Storrow: I deserve it.

[29:30] Pauls Macs: No one deserves a cruise more than you.

[29:34] Martin Storrow: So yeah, those are my choices. All right, Martin, do you need more time?

[29:37] Martin Storrow: I've got I think I've got it. Listen, I'm going to be the first to admit that my knowledge of the canon is limited still.

[29:43] Pauls Macs: I love that you're so upfront and honest about that, that you've written a musical and you're like, I'm a student of the musical theater and you are doing brilliant work.

[29:50] Martin Storrow: And you are so welcome. We're so excited you're here.

[29:54] Martin Storrow: Thank you for being here. I feel so welcome into the community. And I promise I'm going to keep doing the work of learning all the musicals. The things that immediately came to mind, I love this game. One is a world that I just found to be like so captivating that I would love to sit in it. And that is the world of the band's visit.

[30:09] Pauls Macs: Oh, that's a fun shout.

[30:11] Martin Storrow: Just like the idea of being dropped in that desert town with those musicians in that dusty mystical place feels like I would vibe.

[30:18] Pauls Macs: That's just singer songwriter dancer. I love that.

[30:20] Martin Storrow: I feel like that is Yeah, that outs me as like singer songwriter for sure.

[30:24] Pauls Macs: The second is all right, I'm gonna go to a movie musical. Maybe this is taboo, but that counts.

[30:28] Martin Storrow: And somebody who lived in LA for 12 years, I think that the movie La La Land creates this picture of LA. It's like the picture we all wished were.

[30:37] Pauls Macs: Oh, yeah.

[30:37] Martin Storrow: Right. We all wish we were dancing on the highway during a traffic jam, right? We all wish that would happen.

[30:42] Pauls Macs: Like there's just traffic camp, and I can't believe they did it.

[30:46] Martin Storrow: It's brilliant. Yeah, the writing is great. I walked out of that film the first time with just this like energy and a sense of being alive. I feel like a portrayal of a place like they sort of elevated LA in this way that I just loved. And then I'm going back and forth on the last one here. This is going to be goofy, because

[31:03] Pauls Macs: Love goofy answers.

[31:04] Martin Storrow: We love the immediacy of my Cheshire grin. I went the opposite direction when Teresa posed this question. I was like places I don't want to visit. So we're here for okay, great, great, great.

[31:13] Pauls Macs: Whatever we want. The point of the game is it's fun. So thank you.

[31:16] Martin Storrow: Okay, so this is totally goofy. But we saw Once Upon a Mattress at city center, just to be one of the people in the what's the kingdom called? My God, what is she shows up? Oh, no, I don't know. I need to Google this.

[31:28] Pauls Macs: Oh, wow. You're revealing us all as fake. I think it's just called the kingdom.

[31:33] Martin Storrow: Is it just the kingdom like when she crawls out of the swamp and like shows up and just goes full shtick in the kingdom. I just want to be like a villager. That's it in that world for 20 minutes. I would do it.

[31:45] Pauls Macs: Oh, there is nothing wrong with wanting to live in a campy, fun, fantastical castle. What a good shout.

[31:50] Martin Storrow: I was talking about Disneyland, of course, castles like we all want that, right?

[31:55] Pauls Macs: Absolutely.

[31:56] Martin Storrow: That's fantastic. Oh, I have to say one more thing to Martin. I for a very long time, I feel like I was in your shoes. I did not grow up in the musical theater at all. I was definitely like a comic book kid. And that used to really, really bother me actually, because I would feel so intimidated or self-conscious when people would talk about musicals that I had no idea were about my tactics to deal with that was to basically try to learn every musical that ever existed. I think that is good to learn about musicals. But also one thing I learned about myself as part of my grad school journey was actually my artistry that's apart from musical theater is part of me in a way that no other person can bring to their work.

Every little part of you is something that you as an artist can bring that nobody else can. So don't be too self-conscious about not knowing every single musical ever. We need more voices actually, who don't know every musical ever so that they can bring their own authentic, unique voices, because that's what we're really craving, I think right now.

[32:49] Martin Storrow: Exactly. And on the opposite end, as a kid who grew up with musicals to the point that like three years old, my first celebrity impression, Ethel Merman, I was like, I've got this.

[32:57] Pauls Macs: Yes, love that.

[32:58] Martin Storrow: Everything that you picture in a little kid where you're like, man, I hope they make a friend, right? And as I got older, like the only kid at my school who like really loved musicals, or so I thought, you know, like people come out of the woodwork eventually, but being so like loud and proud theater kid and feeling like there weren't enough people to talk to about it growing up. And then it's like you eventually find the community and you get so welcomed in. Anyone is welcome in at any time at any age, right? The point is that we were all on the outside looking in, oh, no, an accidental deer when Hanson reference edited out. Just kidding. At one point, it's an appropriate reference.

[33:31] Pauls Macs: It's really fantastic that theater is so come as you are, we love where you are, where would you like to go? If we had a tagline, quote me on it. We are so excited you're here and that you're bringing such original, beautiful, poignant, vulnerable art. I'm so honored we got to speak to you today. I'm so thankful that you've chosen to create a piece that is so, so personal and so powerful. And I really hope that in your journey, both as a writer and as a son that you found like a lot of satisfaction and a lot of healing.

[34:04] Martin Storrow: Thank you. Thank you. Such a privilege to be here with you. I really, really appreciate it. And I just want to give another shout to New York Theater Barn and particularly like Barn on Fire, because it was the experience of doing Barn on Fire last year was transformational. It was transformative for the work, but also for me and for the journey of our show. We got our commercial producer came to us through that. Nicole is amazing.

[34:25] Pauls Macs: Shout out Nicole. We love Nicole on the pod.

[34:28] Martin Storrow: Yeah. Nicole is just a hero. She's hero material. And there are so many organizations, I think that say that they are about process. And so few I've found that actually embrace the messiness of the process of developing a show. From my experience, we've been so, so lucky to be part of your orbit at New York Theater Barn and with Barn on Fire and also with NAMM. I feel incredibly, incredibly lucky to be part of this community. And thank you for making me feel so welcome.

[34:52] Pauls Macs: Thank you. Well, I mean, you're officially a Barnacle now. Officially.

[34:58] Martin Storrow: Yeah. Thank you for being here, Martin. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your piece with us. Thank you Barnacles for listening. We'll see you next time.

[35:05] Pauls Macs: We'll see you next time. Maybe we'll see you in Pangea. Come on over anytime.