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[0:01] The music of tomorrow is being written today.

[0:10] The music of tomorrow is almost ready to play.

[0:18] Experience the musicals of tomorrow today.

[0:21] Get a glimpse inside the blueprint of an original musical being developed in real time with New York Theatre Barn's podcast, The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:32] The music of tomorrow.

[0:40] I'm Joe Barros.

[0:42] And I'm Jen Sandler.

[0:44] And we're the hosts of The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:46] As the Artistic Director and Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn, we make space to speak in community with musical theatre writers and their creative teams.

[0:56] Lifting up songs from original culture-shifting musicals in development and introducing them to a global audience has become a major part of New York Theatre Barn's evolving story.

[1:06] Each original musical's intention, content, and journey are unique and extraordinary to the storytellers who create them.

[1:14] We believe that there is no formula for musical theatre except authenticity.

[1:19] We recently spoke with the writer of Millennials Are Killing Musicals, Nico Juber, and the writers of The Ladies' Man, Justin Morteliti, and Shannon Hunt.

[1:29] Our first musical is Millennials Are Killing Musicals, which has music, book, and lyrics by Nico Juber.

[1:35] Millennials Are Killing Musicals is an entirely original, irreverently funny, and heartfelt musical about the millennial existential crisis, motherhood, and stereotypes that define a generation.

[1:48] Meet Brenda, a quirky, stressed-out single mom who hates her job, longs to be a writer, and can't help but compare herself to the seemingly perfect Jake's mom at school.

[1:59] Brenda is finally ready for love and creativity in her life when her hashtag-influencer sister Katrina shows up eight months pregnant, completely unprepared for motherhood.

[2:10] Torn between two men, juggling an opinionated mother and an increasingly unstable Katrina, Brenda must learn how to break her self-destructive patterns and live filter-free so she can achieve her dreams.

[2:23] And now, here's our conversation with the writer of Millennials Are Killing Musicals, Nico Juber.

[2:29] Nico Juber: Hello! How are you guys?

[2:32] Joe Barros: We're doing well. Thanks so much for joining us.

[2:34] Nico Juber: Yeah, absolutely.

[2:35] Joe Barros: So you are a writer, a Los Angeles native, mother, and an 18-year cancer survivor.

[2:41] Nico Juber: Yes.

[2:42] Joe Barros: You also run and have a non-profit foundation to support survivors called Thrive Survive Los Angeles.

[2:47] Nico Juber: Your work was recently recognized through NAMM's 15-Minute Musical Challenge.

[2:51] Jen Sandler: Which we're judges for. Yes. Thank you, guys.

[2:55] Joe Barros: You come from an exciting family of entertainers, including your father, music legend and guitarist of Paul McCartney and the Wings, Lawrence Juber.

[3:04] Jen Sandler: But it doesn't stop there. Your grandfather is Sherwood Schwartz, the creator of shows like The Brady Bunch and Gilligan's Island, which Jen and my families loved and enjoyed growing up and still talk about all the time.

[3:14] Nico Juber: Awesome.

[3:15] Jen Sandler: In fact, I can't have pork chops without thinking about applesauce.

[3:18] Nico Juber: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, vice versa. Yeah.

[3:22] Joe Barros: It's clear the arts have always been in your blood. When did you decide to join the family business of sorts, or when did you discover that you were a writer and it was always a part of who you were going to be?

[3:29] Nico Juber: Yeah, you know, I've always written comedy and just written in general, and I've been a musician. But I kind of pushed it all to the side, especially being a cancer survivor. When I graduated college, I thought I need to get a corporate job. I need the benefits. I need the stability. Because at that time, there was no such thing as Obamacare. And we didn't know if we would have coverage for pre-existing conditions. So I kind of just put it out of my head and went about my day working my corporate job. I had two kids. My kids are five and seven now. Well, they were a little younger at the time, so it was a little less than two years ago. I was between ending an old job and starting a new job.

I had this period of time to myself where I had childcare. I was by myself, alone, and I just started writing. I had stuff just come out of me. And I always joke about the fact that I think I have a musical writing gene that got activated in my mid-30s and had no control over it. So that was the timing. It was Millennials, and it was this show. And I've been working on the show since then. And the 15-minute one that you mentioned was another one that I did earlier in the pandemic as part of the NAMP Challenge.

[4:42] Jen Sandler: We love it.

[4:43] Joe Barros: And what made you want to tell the story of Millennials Are Killing Musicals?

[4:46] Nico Juber: It's a story when we first heard about it, we can relate to on so many levels. And I'm sure so many can.

[4:52] Nico Juber: Yeah, absolutely. I think at its core, there's a lot about motherhood that I didn't see represented in a lot of places in theater, especially musical theater, in a really authentic and gritty way. A lot of the times it's, I had a baby. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. And I think that parenthood is so much more complicated than that. It's the best. It's hard. It's, you know, it's all of those things. And so I wanted to see that represented in a show. And then I was going through my own millennial existential crisis of kind of weighing, you know, these creative ideas and what that would mean for me if I gave into them versus staying in the stability of kind of a corporate type role.

And so that's really what came out through this. And that's why I decided to tell the story at the time. And I think the title Millennials Are Killing Musicals is really referring to the main character and really everyone in the show up against this constant voice of, you know, as a generation. Millennials are killing this. Millennials are killing that. And trying to find yourself and your creativity and your passions within that ongoing noise all the time.

[5:57] Joe Barros: That's awesome. And I want to acknowledge Diana Huey, who made us aware of this awesome show. So we're going to bring on your director, Ryan O'Connor, and your music director, Ted Arthur.

[6:07] Ryan O'Connor: Hi, everyone.

[6:09] Nico Juber: Hello.

[6:10] Ryan O'Connor: Oh, my gosh. It's such an honor to be here.

[6:13] Joe Barros: Well, thanks for joining us.

[6:15] Ryan O'Connor: Of course. But I wanted to say really quickly about this creative team. I feel so lucky. And we can talk about the development and how they came into it. But I really wanted to have different perspectives. And I think because there is so much motherhood in the show, it was important to me to make it a slice of millennial story and to have a millennial creative team that brought really different perspectives. So even though it's such a specific story, it's relatable, I think, beyond motherhood, beyond womanhood, beyond any of that. But more to the millennial experience and through all of the characters and their experiences.

[6:52] Ted Arthur: Yeah, I think one thing we've talked about a lot, Nico and Ted and I, is the idea of that Brenda is the central character of this piece. And she is a millennial woman who is a single mom. And she has all these very specific experiences. But they all exist within the background of being a millennial. We won't speak for Ted. But Nico and I are both what you would refer to as elder millennials. We're right at the top, the top end of the millennial spectrum. My feeling is that what you get from Brenda with all of the characters, with the exception of her mother being millennial in the piece, you have this constant pushback of Brenda feeling like she identifies with the millennial experience. And that we're all living out of this little rectangle that lives in the palm of our hand.

And that's our complete identity and existence. But also she has this voice of pragmatism and that there's something about her that wants to do the right thing, not just the revolutionary thing. And that balance between her mother, Nana Marie, the like hip boomer type, and her sister, Katrina, who is in many ways the sort of stereotypical millennial character. That's how you meet her. That's how she's presented. And then you learn more that she's actually fighting against her own experience. And everyone's fighting against the backdrop of the experience, the box they're put in by the generation they just happen to have been born. So I think that's what makes the show relatable to everyone. And also, like all good work, it's relatable because it's a specific experience. And the more specific anything is, the more universal it is, in my opinion. So that's what I love about the piece.

[8:26] Ted Arthur: Totally. And Ted, tell us more about the music.

[8:28] Ted Arthur: Yeah, it's interesting. As far as development goes, I came on board and met Nico through a mutual friend who is our producer. And she told me that Nico is this amazing writer and sent me a Dropbox of some files. And I think what is so compelling about the show musically is that Nico is able to really create songs that just kind of stick with you. I think you always want to be in a show where you leave humming the melody of the show. I think there are so many earworms in this show that are really something that you could hear on the radio today. I think it's so great. And Nico, when she presented a lot of them, had them done professionally in a studio. And we're listening to these. We always say, like the one you'll hear tonight, there's an edit of it that literally you could turn on the radio. And imagine yourself listening to it. So it's just a really a great capture of great songwriting.

[9:33] Nico Juber: Thank you, Ted. I like you, too. I think that's what it is. I mean, it's each song. It really it's something that you'll remember long after the end of the show.

[9:46] Ted Arthur: So let's hear about the first song.

[9:48] Nico Juber: Yeah, the first song is called I'm Basic. And that is the song that's sort of the theme song of Katrina, the stereotypical millennial that we talked about. And this is featuring Diana Huey, who has been developing the show with us. We love her. And we know you're a huge fan of hers. Millennials caps for Diana Huey. And also has backing vocals by Devin Rush, who's been great and working with on the show. Here is Diana.

[10:21] ♪ Musical number: "I'm Basic" — performed by Diana Huey ♪

[12:39] Joe Barros: Yes, Diana! I love I'm Basic.

[12:41] Jen Sandler: It's clearer than LASIK. That's my favorite lyric too, bro!

[12:47] Nico Juber: It is so hard to rhyme basic, let me tell you.

[12:53] Ryan O'Connor: That's when you had me, like, hardcore. Diana's such a star. I know the show has been mostly developed privately, but you had some really fun opportunities with the song Who I Am.

[13:01] Nico Juber: We actually were selected, I found out, after the fact for the Little Music Showcase and that, unfortunately, was pushed and so that would have been the premiere of Who I Am. Asmara did it at Benefit for ASTEP. So that was a really cool thing for me. It was the first time any of my songs had ever been done in any format live, so this is number two. And if people don't know ASTEP, it's founded by the amazing Mary Mitchell Campbell and people should know about it.

[13:35] Jen Sandler: Yes, and go donate there. I think that's a great one.

[13:37] Nico Juber: I don't know what that acronym was. It's Artists Striving to End Poverty.

[13:41] Joe Barros: So tell us about Who I Am.

[13:43] Nico Juber: Yeah, so this song is really kind of the big moment for Brenda, the main character, where she has her transformation. I don't want to say too much about it, but you'll kind of hear her go through that transformation as the song goes on. It's kind of, you know, the big 11 o'clock number part of the show and I think it was very emotional for me to write because it's very personal. A lot of the times I go back and I'll listen to songs 700 times, rewrite lyrics, LASIK, all of that, but this one I really, really couldn't touch very much, so I hope you guys like it.

[14:13] Joe Barros: Who is singing this?

[14:15] Nico Juber: Asmara.

[14:14] Nico Juber: Nico, she's playing Brenda in our show. Here is as we're at. Isn't it funny how we ask the world for something better? That our cycles keep repeating each and every day. Isn't it weird how the soul has seasons like the weather? My heart is feeling cold today. And I can't keep holding all this weight on my shoulders. I'm going round in circles trying to change who I am. I am not good at falling apart. Who I am, I am someone's mom and dad's sister. Who I am depends on who you're asking. Who I am depends on who I've needed to be. It's easy to sit around and wallow in self-pity. The only problem there is who will take the reins. Then I meet someone good and decent in this city. Of course, I run away.

And I can't keep on shouting into darkness. And I can't keep on standing in my own way. Who I am, I am not defined by someone else. Who I am, I am more than just a paycheck and common sense. And common sense, I am capable of anything. Who I am, I am capable of anything. I am capable of anything. I think I'm done making excuses for myself. And prioritizing everybody else instead of me. I deserve to be happy and free. And I'll stop all my shouting into darkness. And I'll stop standing in my own way. Who I am, I am allowed to fall apart. Who I am, I am more than just someone's mom. Well, that's a start. I am capable of anything. Who I am changes today. Who I'll be is someone who breaks patterns.

Who I'll be is someone felt and free. Who I'll be is someone grounded in reality. And that reality is up to me. Up to me. Up to me. Up to me. Yeah! I love I'm capable of anything. I want to get that painted on my wall. It's refreshing and honest and also one of those songs that you discover something new. There's so many hooks in it of experience and moving forward. It moves story forward in a way that also acknowledges that sometimes the biggest actions in our life are just a shift in perspective. And I think that the song captures that without being too stagnant and still. So, I can't help but sing along. It gets me. The action is in my bones.

[18:56] Ryan O'Connor: I love when you say a shift in perspective. It reminds me of that quote in a society that profits from your self-doubt. Loving yourself is a rebellious act.

[19:04] Nico Juber: Yeah.

[19:06] Ryan O'Connor: Awareness that you can love yourself and that it's okay to love yourself. And that loving yourself is actually a healthy thing for you and the world around you.

[19:12] Nico Juber: Yeah, for sure. I think there's a lot of this. I don't want to speak for Nico too much. But I do think there's a lot of that in this show. When Katrina and Brenda eclipse each other in their experience, it's about everybody's individuality is valid and affects the environment around them. And therefore, by being individual within a bigger world, you get this revolutionary radical experience that is personal and also changes the world.

[19:39] Nico Juber: I love when Ryan speaks for me. Ryan always has a good way of putting it. Confession, I totally will listen to Asmaret saying my song is like a pep talk for myself. I love her. I love her singing the song. I think that one of the reasons her and I connected and she connected to this role specifically is she was kind of going through something, finding her own voice as a writer and an artist. And I think that that really connected her to the material. We were saying it's irreverently funny. And this was such a powerful song. There's also a song in the show called Never Poop Alone.

[20:14] Ryan O'Connor: Yeah.

[20:16] Nico Juber: All over the place. We all FaceTime. It's a thing. Well, thank you so much, Nico, Ted and Ryan. We can't wait to hear more from Millennials Are Killing Musicals.

[20:28] Nico Juber: Thank you guys so much for having us. Our second new musical is The Ladies' Man, which has music and lyrics by Justin Mortelliti and Shannon Hunt and a book by Mortelliti. The Ladies' Man centers around Julian, an Italian-American boy from New Jersey who deals with the struggles of coming out and coming of age while escaping the shaming guilt of a Roman Catholic family and religion. With the help of his colorful, hilarious and fiercely loyal friends, plus an arsenal of New Jersey attitude, Julian navigates his way into adulthood, learning to face and accept the truth of himself at all costs. And now here's our conversation with the writers of The Ladies' Man, Justin Mortelliti and Shannon Hunt.

[21:09] Justin Mortelliti: Hello.

[21:11] Shannon Hunt: Hi. Thanks for having us.

[21:13] Justin Mortelliti: Hey, guys. Thanks so much for being here.

[21:15] Shannon Hunt: So let's dive in. Justin, you are a treasured member of our theater community. You were seen on Broadway in the delightful Escape to Margaritaville, off-Broadway in Clueless and in the Las Vegas production of Rock of Ages. You've also been seen on the West Coast in many regional productions as well as many notable television shows. And you're a true multi-hyphenate because you're also a musician, you play the violin and you're a recording artist. Shannon, you are a Los Angeles-based singer-songwriter and vocal coach. You've recorded two solo albums, opened for many artists, including the Zac Brown Band and Sheryl Crow, written jingles for Coca-Cola and Dasani, and had original songs featured in various film and TV projects. You have co-fronted two pop duos, including the incomparable Steffi and Pepper with Justin. So how did you two begin collaborating together and what sparked you to want to write The Ladies' Man together?

[22:16] Justin Mortelliti: Would you like to start out with Justin?

[22:19] Justin Mortelliti: We met slinging drinks at a really popular gay bar in West Hollywood. This was back in 2008, Shannon?

[22:27] Shannon Hunt: 2007, I think.

[22:31] Justin Mortelliti: And we were at the computer putting in our order and I heard her do a little riff and I was like, you sing?

[22:35] Shannon Hunt: Yeah, you sing?

[22:37] Justin Mortelliti: And so we started singing together and writing together and we both were at it in the LA scene trying to land that record deal. We started playing at the Whiskey Go-Go and gay bars around town and putting out music videos and building our book of songs and building our friendship as well. Shannon's my sister now, so it was a beautiful thing.

[22:58] Shannon Hunt: Yeah, that's pretty accurate down to a T. I think that specifically you asked when we started writing this musical, which we really didn't. We spent 10 years together as best friends and as songwriting partners and then our ridiculous stint as Steffi and Pepper as songwriters was great and so much fun. But then we, Justin, you started writing the book, we realized from different sides of the coast that our songs that we had written independently of this were fitting into this story, which was so wonderful.

[23:31] Shannon Hunt: And why The Ladies' Man? To put it simply, because something has to be done. As a gay community, our stories are just now beginning to be told. And there are so many different stories from different perspectives that need to be told. It's essential. And for me, the story's semi-autobiographical. It's based on a lot of things I've been through and I've learned and also friends of mine and people I've met along the way. And I knew I wanted to write this story and when I sat down to write this story, I started realizing, oh wow, when I was going through this really important moment in my life, I wrote this song. And at this moment, I wrote this song. And that's when I contacted Shannon. I was like, Shannon, I think we've been writing this musical for 10 years and we didn't know it.

[24:06] Justin Mortelliti: Accidental musical.

[24:08] Shannon Hunt: Yeah, and so I got to work. And the thing is, The Ladies' Man is about love and faith versus religion and family and friendship. But ultimately, it's about gay shame and the effects it can have on a person and a family. I grew up in a very religious household, Italian American, New Jersey. And not only are there a lot of religious expectations, there's a lot of cultural expectations too. And I know this is universal in the Latin American community and the African American community. These cultural expectations, specifically of a man. And the way that shame and self-hate, the subtle ways it's enforced when you're younger, how it becomes your everything. You know, I knew I was different from the time I was little.

I couldn't really pinpoint gay. I didn't really get it, but figured that out later down the line. But the shame and the self-hate began being built from a very young age. And this is across the board. I mean, gay marriage happened in 2015. And most people grew up with this awful eating thing inside of us, right? And you begin to see the way it affects your life as you grow up, as you grow into a man, into an adult. And this is across the board in the LGBTQ community. I'm speaking from the gay male perspective. But I'm sure it's different in subtle ways. But the shame is universal. And conversion therapy needs to be stopped. These ideas of this religion. And it's not all religions. It's specific things.

But embedding these expectations upon people. I began to see in working in the gay bar specifically with Shannon. Very clear examples of this. Of how people were self-sabotaging themselves. And spiraling. And even to this day now. It's a couple times a year I'm seeing people on Facebook who have died. Suicide. Drug overdose. This trauma being played out in our lives. And so I knew I needed to tell my story. It'll be a journey. It's a constant journey to work on. But I'm someone who survived it when a lot of people don't. And I felt a responsibility sort of to the next generation. As a gay man we have to pass along messages. And stories of how we survived. To help other people. And there's not enough musicals in particular.

And stories in general being told that send these messages. I was thinking about this recently. I spoke to some straight friends of mine. Because this is not only a thing gay people need to learn. Straight people as well. And I was trying to explain to them about like sexual trauma. Growing up like trying to not be gay. And I was like gosh remember like when you were 16. And everyone's having their sexual awakening. And people are losing their virginity in high school. I had to force myself to do something that didn't feel right. And I said imagine if it was reversed. You at that tender age of 16 had to force yourself to be with a man. And you did so until your 20s. Over and over again. It's sexual trauma.

And it's emotional trauma. And my buddies were like oh god I never thought of it that way. I was like of course you haven't. You haven't had to. This isn't your experience. But you should listen. You should learn about other people's experiences. For empathy. I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area during the AIDS crisis. To think okay I'm going to come out as gay right now. While everybody is seeing what gay is. As people dying and sinning because of this death. Was traumatic for me. And also aside from that. My grandparents died of AIDS in the 80s. My grandfather had a blood transfusion. Gave it to my grandmother. So this other sort of otherness. Attached to it. And the stigma of it. To see that there are these blood banks in New York City.

Who want people to donate blood on World AIDS Day. That's trauma. That's collective trauma that's never ending. And so that's ultimately why a musical. And why storytelling is incredibly important right now.

[27:24] Shannon Hunt: Yes. Agreed. And you know we have to write the things that we know. It's the only way to be honest and real. By being vulnerable. And ultimately for me my vulnerability is how I survived it. By opening up to friends and loved ones. And extended, key extended family members. Who lifted me up.

[27:40] Justin Mortelliti: Well thanks for sharing your story with us. It's incredibly powerful. The magical journey that you both came to. Through your friendship. Discovering that you were telling a story you always wanted to tell. But didn't even know that.

[27:52] Shannon Hunt: So set up the first song for us. Because we'd love to know more about the show.

[27:56] Justin Mortelliti: Yeah absolutely. Well something I also want to mention really quickly. Is that a lot of Shannon's music that she wrote. The show is composed of songs I wrote. Songs Shannon wrote. And songs we wrote together. And it was crazy that a lot of the songs that she wrote. There's a few key female principal characters in the show. That she wrote going through specific moments in her life. Slid right into their mouths and became their voice. Which was incredible. So this is truly not autobiographical in more ways than you ever expected.

[28:21] Shannon Hunt: Yeah. You know we talked about it a little bit last night. Just kind of prepping for today. And all of our excitement.

[28:30] Shannon Hunt: And I am a straight white female. And so although I have, I mean, pretty much all gay friends, I cannot relate to that personal experience that Justin has been through, that Joe has been through. But I do encourage all of my artists out there, young and old, to keep writing, because you really never know how your songs and how your experiences are going to help other people and where they're going to fit in someday. And so we are talking about that, just like continuing the artistry, no matter what, no matter if they're going to go someplace or not, because you might help one other person. And I think really, that's all music is about, in my opinion. So anyway, a little bit about I Want Your Love.

This is a song called I Want Your Love. I'm going to read a little something I wrote about the show. The theatricality in the show is found between the dark realism in which the story of Julian and his family lives and the electric blue fantasy world that exists in the music in between. A dark comedy that off and on transforms into a haunting neon music video as things shift between theater and reality, light and dark, pop and rock. There's moments in the show I consider to play with music. The story is very dark and gritty and real. And there's moments when it shifts into the musical numbers. And it's going to become like a neon music video in Julian's head. And in this specific case, the kids are between 17 and 18 years old.

They're seniors in high school. This is midway through act one. And it's the sexual awakening. Everyone's talking about sex and losing their virginity. The songs with all of Julian and all his friends and the peer pressure, specifically from the boys of playing that role, Julian decides to lose his virginity to Holly, which ultimately, for all the kids, it's an amazing pop dance number. But for Julian, it's a scene of sexual trauma for him and Holly. Do we want to attempt to name everybody in this song? Yeah. I'm playing Julian in this, but we have Holly, played by Ryan Redman, Talia Groves, Jared Reinfeld, Amber Ardolino, Justin Showell, and Aidan Wharton. So here is I Want Your Love.

[30:46] ♪ Musical number: "I Want Your Love" — performed by Shannon Hunt and ensemble ♪

[33:49] Shannon Hunt: It's giving me vibes like I just rolled off the Roladium and went to get a little popcorn and I'm like out of breath and I'm like singing. That's our song that we wrote and it's so amazing seeing all these incredible performers and then I'm just so utterly floored and proud of Justin for telling this story and I'm just so happy to be part of it and it's so emotional. And so let's not waste any time. Let's tell them more about the second song.

[34:58] Justin Mortelliti: Yeah. So the second song is called If You Were Wrong. I'm playing Julian again but later in life. The show spans from the 80s and 90s, 2000s and into the teens. And it's also Andrew Chappelle who plays Jamie who is Julian's best friend. And there are cameos by Casey Garvin and Brett Thiele. The year is 2012. We're in a gay dive bar in New Jersey. Gay hookup apps are beginning to boom. Gay marriage is still illegal and at-home HIV tests are brand new. At this point Julian is out and accepted who he is but he is on his journey still to escape his past and begin to love himself. Yay! So here is If You Are Wrong.

[35:36] ♪ Musical number: "If You Were Wrong" — performed by Justin Mortelliti and ensemble ♪

[39:14] Justin Mortelliti: And I think, you know, to go off what you said before, you know, this is more than just a coming-of-age story. This is years and years of storytelling.

[39:26] Shannon Hunt: Yeah, I tried to really write the journey of a person, you know? From the time they're little, it begins in the 80s, when Julian's 8 or 9, through high school and afterwards, until adulthood and the challenges we face as gay men. A quick shout-out to our investors for believing in the show and its message, especially John and Yvonne. We couldn't have produced these music videos without your help, so thank you.

[40:00] Justin Mortelliti: Thank you. I just want to say, do you feel that your real-life experiences have strengthened the integrity of the show? Because I think so much of it is the two of you meeting and writing songs and realizing that your lives were a show.

[40:13] Shannon Hunt: Yeah, there's something magic about that. There's always been something magic about Shannon and my friendship and our story, and, you know, we didn't get the record deal and become the pop star of New York City, but it's living on in a different way that was unexpected and that I've found a lot of healing through writing this piece. And I've learned the difference between faith and religion, and for me that's been a savior.

[40:30] Justin Mortelliti: You know, I think also, if I can chime in really quickly, you know, I think that you get several soulmates in this life, and, you know, Justin is definitely one of those for me. I think if you find a connection through music or through anything, through any common interest, I think you just have to nurture that, and we are a living example of what, Justin, 10-plus years of effort towards each other, towards our friendship, towards our music. If we have just helped ourselves, then that's enough.

[41:57] Shannon Hunt: Awesome. Well, thank you, Shannon and Justin.

[41:59] Justin Mortelliti: Thank you, guys.

[42:00] Shannon Hunt: We'll see if I can.

[42:02] Justin Mortelliti: All right. Thank you. Bye.

[42:03] Shannon Hunt: Bye, everybody.