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[0:00] Joe Barros: The Music of Tomorrow is being written today. The Music of Tomorrow is almost ready to play.

[0:18] Joe Barros: Experience The Musicals of Tomorrow today. Get a glimpse inside the blueprint of an original musical being developed in real time.

[0:26] Joe Barros: With New York Theatre Barn's podcast, The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:41] Joe Barros: I'm Joe Barros. And I'm Jen Sandler.

[0:44] Jen Sandler: And we're the hosts of The Musicals of Tomorrow. As the Artistic Director and Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn, we make space to speak in community with musical theatre writers and their creative teams.

[0:57] Joe Barros: Lifting up songs from original culture-shifting musicals in development and introducing them to a global audience has become a major part of New York Theatre Barn's evolving story.

[1:07] Jen Sandler: Each original musical's intention, content, and journey are unique and extraordinary to the storytellers who create them. We believe that there is no formula for musical theatre except authenticity.

[1:20] Joe Barros: We recently spoke with the writers of Metropolis, AriDy Nox, and Brandon Webster, and the writers of The King’s Wife, Jamie Floyd, and Mêlisa Annis.

[1:30] Joe Barros: Our first musical is Metropolis, which has book, music, and lyrics by AriDy Nox and Brandon Webster.

[1:36] Joe Barros: Metropolis is an epic tale that follows the Harmonizer android unit turned space-time continuum anarchist, Fari, as she is wrenched across space and time.

[1:47] Joe Barros: With the apocalypse hot on her heels in the past and the future, Fari keeps finding herself at the center of world-defining moments. But will she be able to withstand the upheaval, or will she crack under pressure?

[2:00] Joe Barros: And now, here’s our conversation with the writers of Metropolis, AriDy Nox, and Brandon Webster.

[2:07] AriDy Nox: Hi, everyone.

[2:08] Brandon Webster: Hi, guys.

[2:09] AriDy Nox: Well, we’re so thrilled to have you, and we first heard about the show and you as writers through Musical Theatre Factory’s MAKERS profile video because you are part of Musical Theatre Factory’s inaugural MAKERS cohort.

[2:22] Brandon Webster: Our friends at MTF are incredible. Musical Theatre Factory is an artist service organization dedicated to dismantling oppressive ideologies towards collective liberation.

[2:32] AriDy Nox: Through the MAKERS cohort, artists were chosen for their innovative, groundbreaking work, their commitment to stories from underrepresented communities, and their vision of how musical theatre can transform our culture through paradigm-shifting work.

[2:46] Brandon Webster: So that’s how we discovered you, and in that video—

[2:49] AriDy Nox: Which he watches like once a week. I’m not even joking.

[2:52] Brandon Webster: Just to see what—

[2:53] AriDy Nox: That’s really flattering.

[2:55] Brandon Webster: It really is.

[2:58] AriDy Nox: So in that same video, I was really inspired by what AriDy said. She said that this show is for an audience that believes in joy as a revolutionary force.

[3:07] Brandon Webster: And Musical Theatre Factory’s artistic director, Mae Antio, quoted saying this about both of you and your show.

[3:13] AriDy Nox: We are going to build something better.

[3:16] Brandon Webster: So as writers who view art as protest, it seems that your work meets at the intersection between art and policy.

[3:23] AriDy Nox: Your collaboration was born at a roundtable hosted by Musical Theatre Factory.

[3:28] Brandon Webster: Natasha Sinhat, Zachary Jones.

[3:30] AriDy Nox: Yep, made the thing happen.

[3:32] Brandon Webster: Made the thing happen.

[3:33] AriDy Nox: So what was the moment like when you discovered that you needed to work together, and how have places like MTF given you the wings to fly?

[3:41] Brandon Webster: Do you want to tell the story?

[3:42] AriDy Nox: Sure, I’ll tell the story.

[3:44] Brandon Webster: We both tell it slightly differently, so you can correct me when I'm wrong.

[3:49] AriDy Nox: But we both went to POC Roundtable, and we were hanging out. POC is such a great space. It feels like family, even your first time going there.

[3:59] Brandon Webster: So we were presenting work. I had this really weird sci-fi play that I'm still working on that I was like, it's not a musical, read it anyway.

[4:06] AriDy Nox: And they were really nice to me and let us read it anyway, and Brandon heard it.

[4:10] Brandon Webster: And then I presented work from Headline, and I really loved it, and I think I gave a lyric critique, which is so funny because Brandon is actually much more anal about lyrics than I am.

[4:19] AriDy Nox: So for me, having the first lyric critique is funny.

[4:23] Brandon Webster: So we had back and forth, and it came up that we both loved Janelle Monae, and we both thought that the Cindy Mayweather art should be a musical.

[4:31] AriDy Nox: And so we ended up connecting really on that, and we were like, what if we tried to do that, and we did not do that.

[4:37] Brandon Webster: We came up with a whole huge drawing board of what it would look like.

[4:41] AriDy Nox: And then this story, the story of Bari, really took over and really became its own thing.

[4:47] Brandon Webster: And a big part of that was us getting to MAKERS.

[4:50] AriDy Nox: We applied to MAKERS with a very detailed idea, but no music, no anything.

[4:57] Brandon Webster: And we got really lucky that they knew us, so they knew the kind of caliber of work we created, but also that they just took this leap of faith on us that I hope has paid off.

[5:09] AriDy Nox: We've developed the work so much throughout our fellowship, where now I feel like we've earned the right to call ourselves MAKERS.

[5:17] Brandon Webster: But definitely in the beginning, we were just so grateful that we were given this chance to develop this piece we both really love.

[5:24] AriDy Nox: You're both so humble. They took a chance on us.

[5:27] Brandon Webster: I do feel like they did!

[5:29] AriDy Nox: They really did!

[5:30] Brandon Webster: Honestly, but we get that about MTF a lot. You know, Jamie Jarrett said something very similar, and it's true.

[5:35] AriDy Nox: And I argue with Jamie about it all the time, and I'm like, but Jamie, you're great.

[5:39] Brandon Webster: MTF takes risks on people that not everyone will, and it always pays off because the stories are so special, and they're so interesting.

[5:46] AriDy Nox: There's so many organizational spaces that would have heard Time Traveling and our kids' Android musical and been like, that's nice!

[5:55] Brandon Webster: Yeah.

[5:56] AriDy Nox: With like, here's a fellowship, and that's really the difference.

[6:00] Brandon Webster: Well, and it's so funny because even the first sketches of the music that we did, which only exist in vestigial sort of structures.

[6:09] AriDy Nox: Most of the original sketches, most people didn't understand.

[6:14] Brandon Webster: One, because they weren't completely full, but also we're playing with genres, we're mixing stuff, we're trying to do things a little differently.

[6:22] AriDy Nox: And a sketch doesn't always honor the whole song.

[6:26] Brandon Webster: So I think that's partly what's so exciting about being able to be a maker and go through that program is I got to play through my sketches and then really develop it into something that could live inside of that world.

[6:39] AriDy Nox: You mentioned Jamie, like, they're all so wonderful. And the second group, too.

[6:43] Brandon Webster: Yes.

[6:44] AriDy Nox: We were proud of Sadiki is in the new group, who we love.

[6:47] Brandon Webster: It's just Whitney White. Like, it's just a list of winners, honestly.

[6:51] AriDy Nox: Yeah.

[6:52] Brandon Webster: I've heard all of their wins.

[6:53] AriDy Nox: I think Jalyn Levingston is also in it, right?

[6:56] Brandon Webster: Yes.

[6:57] AriDy Nox: Yes.

[6:58] Brandon Webster: She's actually our director for this development process we did with Western Carolina University.

[7:02] AriDy Nox: Shout out to the students!

[7:03] Brandon Webster: Yes!

[7:04] AriDy Nox: Jalyn!

[7:06] AriDy Nox: And to Jalyn, who was an amazing director for this process, really helped with one of the songs that we'll be presenting tonight.

[7:11] Joe Barros: So tell us more about Metropolis. Why did you want to tell this story, the story of Fari? Why time traveling?

[7:17] AriDy Nox: You know, initially we played around with, for a little bit, trying to adapt the original Janelle Monae-Cindy Mayweather arc.

[7:24] Brandon Webster: And so much of that arc is about a love story. We just didn't want to write a love story and a superstar, and we didn't want to write that musical.

[7:33] AriDy Nox: I think we've seen that musical over and over and over again, and that's not this.

[7:38] Brandon Webster: Not the way that Janelle does it.

[7:39] AriDy Nox: Not the way that Janelle does it, but still, the idea of a love story, there's so many other things to explore.

[7:44] Brandon Webster: And so once we said, okay, we don't want this to be centered around a person meeting a person and them falling in love, it opened up the other things that we wanted to have a conversation about through theater.

[7:56] AriDy Nox: And I think the most immediate things were the climate emergency and what it means to be dealing with feeling like the world is ending.

[8:05] Brandon Webster: I know everybody collectively agrees that the world is ending at this point.

[8:10] AriDy Nox: But what was it, 2018, the end of 2018 when we started working on this?

[8:15] Brandon Webster: Yeah.

[8:16] AriDy Nox: We were also feeling like this is kind of going south. It's not, we're not there yet, but we seem to be going down.

[8:23] Brandon Webster: And that we need to fix things and that there has to be this concentrated, deliberate effort to make the world better than it is because it can't stay like this.

[8:33] AriDy Nox: It's not sustainable. And I think that really fueled a lot of the show as we got deeper into it.

[8:40] Brandon Webster: We chose the time travel aspect partially because we were thinking about what does time give you since we are on such a tight time schedule?

[8:51] AriDy Nox: What does time give you in perspective? What does it give you in generations?

[8:55] Brandon Webster: We talk all the time about how one of our characters is an ancestral character.

[9:00] AriDy Nox: She's living so much closer to the time we're living in.

[9:03] Brandon Webster: But the way that she interacts with Bari, it's really this energy of an ancestor.

[9:08] AriDy Nox: So what happens when we realize that, yes, this moment is really scary and it's very unique in the way that it's manifesting.

[9:16] Brandon Webster: But also our ancestors have gone through so many apocalypses before us.

[9:21] AriDy Nox: Yes.

[9:22] Brandon Webster: Like Jewish people, Black people, Hispanic people, we have all endured spiritually, ancestrally apocalypses before.

[9:31] AriDy Nox: How did they survive? What lessons did they learn? What can we take and incorporate into our lives?

[9:36] Brandon Webster: And that's a big theme that shows up in Metropolis.

[9:39] AriDy Nox: I think the biggest thing, I said this to someone just today, every show I see about time travel, whether we're going to the past or the future, it's not that much different as we think it would be.

[9:48] Brandon Webster: Yeah.

[9:49] AriDy Nox: And it's, I don't know if that's therapeutic or it's not.

[9:53] Brandon Webster: Yeah. It throws me off when I read books and watch movies from like, like Parable of the Sower is the perfect example of this by Octavia Butler.

[10:02] AriDy Nox: She wrote this in the 80s and it's supposed to be happening in 2021. And when I tell you it looks like 2021, it makes me upset.

[10:10] Brandon Webster: I was watching Back to the Future Part II like a month or two ago and I was like, oh, oh, okay, this isn't, yeah.

[10:17] AriDy Nox: Pretty much tracks, yeah.

[10:19] Brandon Webster: Yeah. And history is always repeating itself, just like it is right now.

[10:23] AriDy Nox: Mm hmm.

[10:24] Joe Barros: In addition to the Musical Theater Factory's Inaugural Makers Cohort, tell us a little bit more about the show's development.

[10:36] Brandon Webster: Yeah.

[10:37] AriDy Nox: It's honestly, it's like we talk about this all the time. The show wants to happen. Like we want the show to happen, but the show also wants to happen.

[10:45] Brandon Webster: So there are so many opportunities that happen because people watch that one video from the MTF Gala that they showed or they met us randomly at a Joe's Pub concert and it's like, what are you doing?

[10:55] AriDy Nox: So we've gotten like, we did a lot of development through MTF directly. We got to do a Joe's Pub concert, which was wonderful.

[11:03] Brandon Webster: We got to do a retreat. We're now working with Western Carolina University and New Light Theater Project to do some further development.

[11:10] AriDy Nox: And that has been absolutely incredible.

[11:13] Brandon Webster: The students are so talented.

[11:16] AriDy Nox: The Artistic Director at New Light Theater Project has been so, so, so supportive and wonderful, like reached out and was like, I want to help. Like, how do we help?

[11:25] Brandon Webster: And it has really followed through on that. And we did a small developmental process with Wesleyan University that's going to result in them doing a copyright show.

[11:35] AriDy Nox: So it's lots of little stuff like that.

[11:38] Brandon Webster: This show, like, how do I help? And like, Pete, I mean, but it's resulted in like so much of the show getting done, like for the Western Carolina University experience, we wrote a whole new song.

[11:49] AriDy Nox: And we have been really struggling with Fari and the concert and what that song was going to be.

[11:55] Brandon Webster: We were like, we have to write one for this because we need someone young to sing it.

[11:59] AriDy Nox: And we're out of college. It's the time to do it. And it forced us to do it.

[12:03] Brandon Webster: And it's like, I think one of the best songs we've written for the show, every little opportunity we've been given.

[12:08] AriDy Nox: And that was a little more extensive, but every opportunity we've been given has really like helped us both in like building community around the show, which is really important to us.

[12:18] Brandon Webster: But also like in the actual creation of the work.

[12:21] Joe Barros: Excited to lift up this material and see performances by these amazing Western Carolina University students and alums.

[12:27] AriDy Nox: So tell us about tonight's first song.

[12:29] AriDy Nox: Apocalyptic Lit is the opener for act two of our musical.

[12:33] AriDy Nox: It starts in another time of revolution because the story Metropolis takes place in two different revolutions that happen throughout mankind.

[12:44] Brandon Webster: And so it's really, really cool because we get to see a protest.

[12:48] AriDy Nox: I don't know that I want to give you more than that.

[12:51] Brandon Webster: It's the first song and first introduction to this future world.

[12:55] AriDy Nox: And so much of act one is like about like scientists and like academics and intellectuals.

[13:01] Brandon Webster: And so for us, it's exciting because Apocalyptic Lit is like movement people and it's a different energy.

[13:07] AriDy Nox: It's just a whole different energy.

[13:09] Brandon Webster: So here is Apocalyptic Lit.

[13:11] AriDy Nox: All right, y'all, this is it.

[13:13] AriDy Nox: We've trained, we've plotted, we've prepared.

[13:17] AriDy Nox: And now here's our moment.

[13:19] AriDy Nox: The city needs a revolution and it's up to us to give it one.

[13:24] AriDy Nox: What we do here today is gonna change everything.

[13:28] AriDy Nox: All the human noise, vials and androids.

[13:32] AriDy Nox: We need your attention and there's no need to mention that our goal is distraction.

[13:37] AriDy Nox: Evoke a reaction.

[13:39] AriDy Nox: Hide your face. Ah! Do your thing.

[13:40] AriDy Nox: Let the riot trumpets ring.

[13:42] AriDy Nox: Let them know that the city is dying.

[13:45] AriDy Nox: Kill or kill and the rest are complying.

[13:49] AriDy Nox: Tear this shit down. Make this bitch drown.

[13:52] AriDy Nox: Fuck it up like it's the end of the world.

[13:55] AriDy Nox: Hell yeah!

[13:57] AriDy Nox: No more hands in the air.

[14:00] AriDy Nox: Cause if the world is gonna end, we'll bend, we'll bend it till it breaks.

[14:08] AriDy Nox: Say yeah!

[14:11] AriDy Nox: All my people everywhere.

[14:14] AriDy Nox: Cause if you didn't know before, be sure.

[14:17] ♪ Musical number: "End of the World" — performed by AriDy Nox and Brandon Webster ♪

[16:35] AriDy Nox: The first thing I thought when I was listening, it's a fight song.

[16:39] Brandon Webster: Yes, very much so.

[16:41] AriDy Nox: So what is our second song tonight?

[16:43] Brandon Webster: So our second song is "Dinosaurs."

[16:46] AriDy Nox: And it was one of the first times in the musical when we wrote it. It was one of the first times that we really understood what the moment was, like where we were, what was happening. This is our act one closer. You're seeing songs that go back to back. So the world has ended. Side character may not have accomplished what she wanted to accomplish, and she's really sort of sitting with, for the first time, what that means for her and her character. For what it's worth, we consider right now, we're considering that same thing. I think a lot of folks are spending time really considering, you know, what if the world isn't here in the next five years? Or in the next two years? Or in the next year?

And what those realities are. You see a main character dealing with those same questions. We have this juxtaposition between act one and act two. What does it mean to fail to save our world? And what does it mean to succeed? And so like, it is this song. And it's like, what does failure mean? Cause he left this moment of really being like, okay, I failed, but what does that mean for Fari? And so, hopefully it hits. Here is "Dinosaurs."

[18:05] Do I put the teabag in first? Sorry.

[18:08] Brandon Webster: How do you make your tea?

[18:09] AriDy Nox: Yeah, I put the teabag in first, I think.

[18:26] AriDy Nox: It's been months since I made some tea and then really drank it. It's like there's no hope until you look up. And then you look up. I can barely take it. All that'll work for nothing. Nothing left to do. Did the dinosaurs cry when they looked up at the sky and saw it falling? Did the dinosaurs cry when they realized the birds would survive and just fly by? In the beginning or the end, did they intend for all their bending to somehow never break? Was their mistake to think how it never would? Did the dinosaurs cry? You spend years trying to save the world, and you almost save it. You spend years trying to survive, and you almost make it. It's like there's no love until you look up. And then you look up.

But how do you take it? All that'll work for nothing. Nothing except you. And maybe if the dinosaurs had a chafe heart, like their hearts start beating differently as the world they know falls apart, then maybe as the dinosaurs cry into their tears, they find some hope from deep down below to let go and let be. It's been months since I saw the sky. It's been months since I thought to cry when the dinosaur cries.

[21:25] AriDy Nox: God.

[21:29] Brandon Webster: It's a recurring joke between me and Brandon and my mother that we can't like, listen to Emma sing this song. One, like you have to play it like three times. Her voice is just so gorgeous.

[21:41] AriDy Nox: Yes.

[21:42] Brandon Webster: What's amazing about that song is that it appears to be a very complex song, but it's a very simple song with a really intricate bass accompaniment motive. I just love the metaphor of like, I wonder how the dinosaurs felt when that was happening or like, are we the dinosaurs of the next generation?

[21:58] AriDy Nox: Yeah, absolutely. It's so funny because part of the creation of this song, it was originally, I believe, a monologue that Ardai wrote. It was a lyric that we didn't set for the 4x15. It was a lyric that we didn't set for the 4x15 with a 4x15 Witton TS. I had written this lyric where I said the dinosaurs cry and then a whole bunch of words that Brandon was like, those words aren't important. And he wrote so much better. And then I like changed, I think just a few words and then the D section. And that's often, we would often go just like back and forth and back and forth. And it helps that Brandon is so good at his job because I think sometimes when people change my lyrics, I get a little like, okay, but my lyric was good though. But when Brandon did "Dinosaurs," I was like, alright, you write.

[22:54] AriDy Nox: Well, you certainly both have a really special collaboration and we can't wait to see more from Metropolis, so thank you so much for joining us tonight. We'll see you soon. Our second new musical is The King's Wife, which has music and lyrics by Grammy-nominated songwriter Jamie Floyd and a book by Melissa Annis. The King's Wife is a new musical that uniquely retells the relationship between Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn, the first two wives of King Henry VIII of England. While historical accounts paint these women as bitter enemies, The King's Wife, using historical clues, flips the script to tell their tale differently. The story begins with them as like-minded good friends plotting and executing ideas for the people and their future before they are stripped of choice, options, and each other in a devastating game of politics and power.

It's an untraditional period piece with a dark, progressive vibe and a moving, hopeful story about female friendship and the detriment to the world when great women aren't allowed to rise. And now, here's our conversation with the writers of The King's Wife, Jamie Floyd and Melissa Annis.

[23:56] Jamie Floyd: Hello.

[23:59] Melissa Annis: We're so thrilled to have you both here and your commercial producers are going to be joining us shortly. So thanks for being here.

[24:05] Jamie Floyd: Thank you for having us with me.

[24:07] Melissa Annis: Well, it's really exciting that this new musical has a female writing team and a female producing team. The story of Henry VIII and his wives are part of world history. I mean, we all know the story. History and legend have converged over the past 470 years in our minds, in our literature, on our stages, in films and in televisions, in our homes. This is ultimately an untold story, and you, in a unique and sophisticated way, are reclaiming this age-old story from the perception of female friendship. So often, women at war are what people are selling, and this is potentially about that, but it's ultimately about a friendship between two women that has been overlooked through history. Before we dive in, I just wanted to acknowledge that Melissa, you're a storyteller who was born and raised in Wales.

[25:19] Jamie Floyd: Yeah, this is our first collaboration together, though I feel like Jamie has very quickly become a part of my family, so I hope it's the beginning of many collaborations together. But yes, so one of our producers, Jen, actually approached us with the story or with the idea for the story of what if Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn were actually friends and not these women wanting to kill each other or any of those things that we know. And in the beginning, I thought, oh gosh, how do we tell that story? Because, you know, being Welsh, I grew up amongst the castles and, you know, knowing the Tudors as the first Welsh line, I thought I knew the story backwards and forwards. We started looking at some source material, and actually we realized that a lot of the stuff that we think we know are things that have been told to us second-hand by people with very much an agenda.

And of course, that sort of old adage of whoever wins gets to tell the history, well, that sort of is what happened here, we believe. So when Jamie and I started working on this, we just kept discovering, I think, is that fair to say, Jamie?

[25:54] Melissa Annis: I am indeed.

[25:55] Jamie Floyd: You've worked at some of the country's most incredible theatres, and you've had your hand in plays, musicals, and Shakespearean works. And you also have a presence in the world of TV and print media. And Jamie, you are a Grammy-nominated songwriter, and your songs have been sung by Kesha, Brian McKnight, Miranda Lambert, Ronnie Dunn, among others. So is this your first time collaborating together, and what led you to want to tell this story together?

[26:19] Jamie Floyd: Oh, absolutely. The more that we learn about Catherine and Anne and what they did leave behind and the breadcrumbs that they left, you start to piece things together differently. Melissa's been such an incredible resource in introducing me, oftentimes, to certain things about Catherine that she had in the works that I didn't even know about, you know, like books and songs and all these different things. And so it's been really beautiful to find that story out.

[27:18] Melissa Annis: Yeah, and actually, Jamie introduced me to a book this week about music supremacy and how sometimes a lot of music goes by the wayside over history because, you know, the most dominant cultures take over and adapt music. And it's so interesting to think of our women in those terms because they were incredible women who used to write and commissioned incredible books for, you know, next generations. And of course, we never get to hear that part of the story. So that was fun to dive into and learn about more of that stuff.

[27:20] Jamie Floyd: Well, tell us a little bit about how you came to tell the story through this particular kind of a score. You know, I would say Jamie is like a guitar in a harpsichord world here. Tell us more about the score of the show.

[27:31] Jamie Floyd: Sure, sure. So this is my first musical that I've ever been a part of. I've been real fortunate to work with scripts in film and television, but not in theater. And so this was just such a beautiful challenge along the way. So as a songwriter, I started in Nashville. That's kind of where I've come up and where I've learned my craft. And in Nashville, it's all about storytelling, and the story is first. And I've just been very lucky to be surrounded by incredible storytellers, you know, like the best in the world all come to Nashville as far as songwriters, you know. And I feel like at some point or another, they lead their way here, and I've been lucky to be around a lot of them and to absorb all of that or some of that knowledge, I hope.

And so I've taken that foundation that makes country music so incredible, and I've applied it to the theater world. And I think I've done the same thing when I've gotten to write and pop music scenes. So that's all helped me kind of find my way here to where we are with this show. And I feel like I've... Coming from the commercial music world.

[28:35] Mêlisa Annis: I've been able to kind of take structure and things that work in pop songs and that help make things memorable and sing-alongable and take kind of the best parts that I think from commercial music and country music and try to infuse them and combine them with what makes theater so incredible.

[28:52] Mêlisa Annis: And it's been such a beautiful thing to be embraced by this community and to slowly become a part of it. I felt really welcome and so excited to keep exploring.

[29:03] Pauls Macs: Yeah, I think what I love about your score most is it doesn't sound like theater. It's a musical, but it's really, really unique in its own thing. And Mêlisa, how was it to write a book around that? Was it easy for you?

[29:15] Mêlisa Annis: Yeah, well, we've been working in tandem a lot. So it's less a case of it's not sort of jukebox-y in that way. You know, it's a case of that we'll come up with a couple of beats that we want to work with in terms of storytelling.

[29:27] Mêlisa Annis: And then sometimes I'll bang out a few pages and say, Jamie, what can you do with this? And she'll say, look at this incredible anthem that I've created for the musical. I'm like, how did you do that?

[29:36] Mêlisa Annis: So there's a lot of that that goes on. And then, of course, it keeps evolving. Everybody who works in theater knows that things keep changing. And I think that we keep changing as women and the world keeps changing. So the play, as it sort of keeps growing, I feel like Jamie and I are constantly shifting the way that we work, because you just have to in this crazy world.

[29:57] Mêlisa Annis: And emotionally, you have to just figure out different ways to hit different beats in the show, if that makes any sense.

[30:03] Pauls Macs: Well, we're going to bring on your amazing producers now, Jennifer Kranz and Abigail Solomon. So tell us more about the development of the show, Abigail and Jennifer.

[30:11] Abigail Solomon: Yes, fill in the blanks of missing Abigail. You know, basically the first three years, we started this process in like late, late, late 2016, like almost 2017. And now we're sort of slowly launching it out via our Instagram channel, like sharing music, and we've developed a real lovely fan base.

[30:27] Abigail Solomon: If everybody wants to follow, it's at the King's Life musical on Instagram. We're getting responses from fans and so forth in the industry. Jamie was able to explore some of the music with Rastic Theater, which is a company we love. Lots of things happening. We're having conversations with the UK and Australia producers in those territories.

[30:45] Abigail Solomon: And yeah, you know, just a lot happening. And luckily, my dear producing partner in crime is joining for this, Abigail from Roslyn Productions. And, you know, this is a show that really fits into both of our personal missions as producers.

[31:00] Pauls Macs: And why did you think it was important to have an all-female creative team? You know, you're a female producer, you have a female writing team. I think that's spectacular and so important to celebrate.

[31:09] Jennifer Kranz: We love women. We like men too. For me personally, at Roslyn Productions, the mission is strong, unique female characters. And sometimes they're written well by men, and often they're written well by women. And that's what's so exciting.

[31:25] Jennifer Kranz: The mission of my company is to change the narrative, to eliminate gender and racial bias. And what's amazing about this story is I said to these ladies, the three of them who created this, I just came on along for the ride. They literally have changed the narrative with a historical story that everybody knows. And nobody's heard this story before, really, the way they're telling it, which is pretty amazing.

[31:48] Mêlisa Annis: Yeah, you know, Melissa's book and the music it points to is very humorous. And there's a lot to this story, most certainly. But this is a dark story. Like, there are some tough moments in this show. And, you know, to be able to do that, we just really felt that it needed to be written by women who have not, of course, necessarily had Anne and Catherine's experiences, but have had experiences in the world that can potentially speak to what these two women go through. So from that standpoint, we really thought it was important to have an all-women team.

[32:15] Mêlisa Annis: I just remember being a kid and thinking, how could somebody order somebody to have their head cut off?

[32:22] Mêlisa Annis: I mean, and Jo, quite honestly, that's not even the worst of it. You know, it's the fact that women had absolutely no choice whatsoever over what they were allowed to do with and for their own bodies.

[32:34] Jamie Floyd: It's all about having an heir.

[32:36] Mêlisa Annis: Yeah. And basically, that's all we were there for. So it's really interesting now that we're in this time that we're sort of dealing with that idea of choice and ownership again, and sort of how we can find agency and protect our rights, you know, and that's a lot of what the story is actually about.

[32:51] Pauls Macs: Yeah, it's incredibly moving. Incredibly moving. What Jamie and Melissa have done is exciting, important. Really, it's incredible.

[33:00] Pauls Macs: So we have two live performances by Jamie tonight. What is the first song we're going to hear?

[33:04] Jamie Floyd: So this is a song called I Know You. And so Catherine of Aragon was actually pregnant seven times, and only one of her children lived. That would be Mary, the princess that most of us know as Bloody Mary.

[33:17] Jamie Floyd: And so this song actually comes as she's just given birth to her seventh stillborn child, and Anne Boleyn is coming to her bedside and comforting her in this moment and trying to help her through this dark time.

[33:32] Here is Jamie.

[33:34] Jamie Floyd: I wish that I could take all your pain away. I don't know what to say.

[34:01] Jamie Floyd: But I know you're stronger cause you've got something they can't touch so much more than I know what you're made of.

[34:26] Jamie Floyd: Oh, and if I could, I would change this so your heart could be weightless.

[34:42] Jamie Floyd: I don't know your hurt like you do, but I know you. And all that I can see is that you are evergreen.

[35:06] Jamie Floyd: You will live to live your dreams. Yeah, I just know it. Oh, and if I could, I would change this so your heart could be weightless.

[35:31] Jamie Floyd: I don't know your hurt like you do, but I know you. I know you.

[35:56] Pauls Macs: Just a little clip for you.

[35:59] Mêlisa Annis: I find it hard. I have to remind myself not to mouth the words cause I love that song so much.

[36:07] Pauls Macs: Thank you for being with us. I just wanted to say, you know, this source material is so fascinating. And the more you get to know it, the more incredible it is.

[36:16] Mêlisa Annis: Jesse and Steve Tomsko have written Boleyn, which is a musical about Anne Boleyn and told with it with a different musical palette as well.

[36:26] Mêlisa Annis: But I think ultimately there's a place for all of us at the seat of the table of the American theater.

[36:31] Mêlisa Annis: And this show is completely different from those shows. They are completely different from this show.

[36:37] Mêlisa Annis: And I think, you know, Six has a very different tone. So does Boleyn. So does The King's Wife.

[36:43] Mêlisa Annis: And again, this is really a story about female friendship and seeing an old story in a new way as an untold story.

[36:51] Jamie Floyd: Yeah, it was important to us to, of course, respect history. So we've tried to pepper in as much as we can of what we know.

[37:00] Jamie Floyd: But what we really wanted to do was just sort of put a new lens on it and take away sort of the things that we've been told over the years.

[37:07] Jamie Floyd: And just look at it from a different angle and just turn it around a little bit.

[37:10] Jamie Floyd: And as you say, there's space for all of the stories because we're all different and we're all telling them from different perspectives.

[37:16] Mêlisa Annis: And I think that that's OK and to be celebrated.

[37:19] Pauls Macs: Absolutely. With that said, we do have a song.

[37:23] Jamie Floyd: It's a duet. It'll eventually be a duet between Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon.

[37:29] Jamie Floyd: And basically, storytelling wise, what happens is Catherine has commissioned a book, actually one of a very well-known feminist book, to try and help her daughter master being a queen of the kingdom, because ultimately she is the next in line.

[37:44] Jamie Floyd: So this is them realizing that they have a responsibility to get Mary ready for the throne.

[37:51] Here, once again, is Jamie.

[37:53] Jamie Floyd: So this is called The Torch.

[37:58] Jamie Floyd: There's so much more to conquer still

[38:01] Jamie Floyd: And the prayer I pray is that she will

[38:05] Jamie Floyd: Take my place and carry on

[38:08] Jamie Floyd: To challenge where the lines are drawn

[38:11] Jamie Floyd: Life will tell her she doesn't count

[38:14] Jamie Floyd: And when it does, she can't back down

[38:17] Jamie Floyd: For generations our voice was lost

[38:20] Jamie Floyd: But the future ahead will be worth the cost

[38:24] Jamie Floyd: We must go on

[38:26] Jamie Floyd: And pass the torch

[38:28] Jamie Floyd: And leave open doors

[38:30] Jamie Floyd: Blinded ways to tomorrow's pain

[38:33] Jamie Floyd: Will be far less than yesterday

[38:37] Jamie Floyd: Plane by plane, step by step

[38:40] Jamie Floyd: They will find what we left

[38:44] Jamie Floyd: This is what we came here for

[38:50] Jamie Floyd: To pass the torch

[38:57] Jamie Floyd: Pass the torch

[39:04] Jamie Floyd: The fires we start in our hearts will burn

[39:07] Jamie Floyd: The fires we start will live on in her

[39:10] Jamie Floyd: Light up the sky and our hearts will burn

[39:13] Jamie Floyd: Always burn

[39:15] Jamie Floyd: Always burn

[39:22] Jamie Floyd: Pass the torch

[39:24] Jamie Floyd: Burn

[39:27] Jamie Floyd: Burn

[39:36] Pauls Macs: Thank you all so much.

[39:37] Pauls Macs: What about Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon do you wish more people knew?

[39:40] Pauls Macs: Why has their story been so complicated and sensationalized?

[39:45] Mêlisa Annis: Oh, what a great question.

[39:47] Mêlisa Annis: I think that sex sells and the idea that Anne Boleyn was this vixen, this sort of power-hungry woman with ambition have we heard that one before? was very sexy to a lot of people and of course we have to remember that Henry had, what, four more wives after Anne?

[40:04] Mêlisa Annis: So he had a lot of propaganda he had to push out there and so the thing that I've really discovered is how smart these women were incredibly intelligent and also creative women.

[40:18] Mêlisa Annis: Anne Boleyn wrote songs, she wrote operettas, Catherine of Aragon could speak many languages as could Anne and it's just been nice to be in the presence of brilliance and not sort of in the presence of these kind of flimsy characters that are always in the shadow of the king and he's barely in our show so it's quite nice to have them have a voice at least that's what I think that's been my discovery.

[40:42] Mêlisa Annis: I just want to also shout out Show Shepard, our amazing board members Blair and Matt have been involved with your show and we're so thankful that they brought the show to us.

[40:51] Jamie Floyd: Yeah, we love those guys.

[40:53] Jamie Floyd: In our last version of the draft I'm reading it and I get to this scene that she incorporated about Catherine writing a book for Mary and I was like tearing up and the scene, it just like hit me so hard and it felt so real and I called Melissa and I was like oh I love this thing about the book oh my god how moving and she's like, that's true.

[41:14] Jamie Floyd: It's just been incredible to see how she's woven in these facts about these women that I never knew about and that's one of them and the book that Catherine is leaving behind for Mary is really special and you just see what they were trying to do.

[41:26] Jamie Floyd: I think what's really fun about working with Jamie is that she'll get inspired by something I find and then she'll go down a whole rabbit hole hunt and then I'll get inspired by something she finds and then it ends up being like a week of oh my gosh look at all this stuff it's like a treasure trove.

[41:40] Jamie Floyd: Yeah, because of that book because of her finding that piece of history that's how I was able to write The Torch that's what it inspired in me.

[41:47] Jamie Floyd: So yeah, it all kind of weaves together but Melissa and I have had an incredible chemistry from the very beginning it's been enjoyable.

[41:53] Pauls Macs: Thank you all for resurrecting the ghosts of these women to almost change history and almost to inform our future and to make it better for the women in our world so thank you all.

[42:04] Mêlisa Annis: Thank you, thank you for having us.

[42:07] Jamie Floyd: Yes, thank you for having us and shout out to Metropolis, it's amazing.

[42:10] Mêlisa Annis: Yes.

[42:12] Pauls Macs: We'll see you guys soon and have a good night.

[42:15] Pauls Macs: If you enjoyed The Musicals of Tomorrow please rate, subscribe, and share.

[42:19] Pauls Macs: The podcast is co-produced and edited by Paul Smock and Hector Flores Jr.

[42:24] Pauls Macs: Our theme song, The Music of Tomorrow was written by Lynn Shankle and Sarah Cooper for their all-female identifying musical Perpetual Sunshine and The Ghost Girls.

[42:38] Pauls Macs: Join us next time for more of The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[42:47] Pauls Macs: The Musicals of Tomorrow.