This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Emily Fink: Ever wonder what it takes to make a new musical thing? Our mission is to give you an inclusive look behind the scenes. We're interviewing the creatives who are changing musical theater one 11 o'clock number at a time. This is your Backstage Pass.

[0:26] Karl Amundson: Your life is fat.

[0:30] Emily Fink: Excuse me? This is unhealthy. Have you read my book yet? My God, it's way too long and I don't need your book to pack up my apartment. How hard can it be?

[0:47] Karl Amundson: You'd be surprised. My book is all about what you need, Megan. Ask yourself, what do you need?

[0:54] Emily Fink: Um, Adderall?

[0:58] Karl Amundson: You need to bag it! Chapter 1. What crap can you lose when you're on the move? Begin by embracing each position of yours and asking, is it something you love? Is it something you need? Does it bring you peace for the life that you lead?

[1:12] Emily Fink: So far, not bringing me peace. Only 439 pages to go. Gotta cut down the fat. Quit living in junk. Girl, it's hard to move on with all that weight in your trunk.

[1:20] Karl Amundson: What are you trying to say?

[1:22] Emily Fink: Get rid of the things that don't bring you peace.

[1:26] Karl Amundson: Peace? This bedroom is full of pieces of me. These are my memories.

[1:32] Emily Fink: Sure, memories are great, but they're so yesterday. It's like I like to say, throw away yesterday. You can't prepare for tomorrow if you're wasting today.

[1:41] Karl Amundson: So what? You want me to throw it all away?

[1:43] Emily Fink: You could throw it away. You could sell it for pay or make a generous donation to Salvation Army. Put it on eBay. Lots of options to weigh. It'll all be okay if you listen to me.

[1:55] Karl Amundson: I don't care what you do, as long as you do as the guru says.

[2:00] Emily Fink: I thought you said you weren't a guru.

[2:03] Karl Amundson: I'm whatever you need me to be, and it's clear you need a guru. Fans, followers, back me up!

[2:18] Emily Fink: You're listening to Guru Say from the new musical Falling Forward. Welcome back to part two of our conversation with Emily Fink and Karl Amundson about their hilarious and moving new musical. Falling Forward is about Megan, a queer 27-year-old sculpture artist who is leaving New York City, moving in with her mom in Michigan, and giving up her artistic aspirations. Packing her apartment proves to be a noisy affair, as all of Megan's belongings, including a bong, a self-help book, a vibrator, a family portrait, a smart device, and more, come to life, forcing Megan to reckon with her own role in her terrible, horrible, no good, very bad year. Equal parts memory play, fever dream, generational satire, and coming-of-age story, Falling Forward follows Megan as she teeters on the brink of change, searching for certainty in her uncertain world. Listen all the way to the end for a game where we debate which musical theater objects we would most like to have in our rooms.

[3:34] Teresa Attridge: You've decided to make Megan a sculptor in this show, which I thought was like a really smart and interesting choice, especially because her medium focuses mostly on like reusable items and like repurposing things. And so in a show in which she's trying to figure out what parts of herself she wants to keep and throw away, it's in direct contrast to the fact that her art is about reincorporation and like giving new life to old things. So she's struggling with her own like personal belief as an artist, as well as sort of like the practical of being one. And I thought it was also interesting that you picked sculpture. Obviously it's like when we're writing a show that's so close to ourselves, we gotta have one thing.

Like if she were an actor, we'd be like, it'd be too close. But the fact that she's a sculptor I think is beautiful in particular because it mirrors the fact that it's one of those art forms that is so, so deeply subjective. And so much of it, like no matter what you intend, what people are taking away or what they see or what they refuse to see is so out of your control. And when Megan finally does have time to go to these networking events or like show her pieces, and people aren't understanding it, or they're ignoring it, or, you know, she's trying so hard to just get people to see it and to see her. It really supports so much of what the show is, which is the amalgamation of parts, right?

Which is the things in her room, as well as the parts of herself that she's trying to figure out how to stack them together without them all falling apart. What things to keep and what things to let go.

[5:02] Karl Amundson: Totally, totally, exactly. You know, something that we found together and really appreciated even that metaphor for ourselves. So it's very affirming to hear that that is picked up on because there is an affection for the way she finds new purpose and things that people throw away. Yeah, that's a really beautiful way that she works within her medium. And you sort of have compassion for that. And that is like a really beautiful ideal. And then you also see the flip side of that, which is like, she can't let go of so much around her because of that same sort of sentimentality or desire to create use out of something. So it's an interesting interplay. And I mean, also the fact that it's the fact that she feels so thrown away, right?

Sort of like, she feels like the city is throwing her away. And like, her dream is throwing her away. And her girlfriend, plot twist, ex-girlfriend has thrown her away, right? Or her friends are just this idea that she's being left behind, like she is the garbage that no one is seeing the potential of. Also the idea that she knows her purpose, but she's questioning throughout the show, should I repurpose myself for something different? She's always fearing that people don't see her utility. And where all the objects in her room all serve a utility, she's not sure if she is of any. And yet she questions if she's the only person that can see use and junk. And maybe she's been crazy all along and needs to throw everything away. It's all very layered, isn't it?

[6:46] Emily Fink: If You're Smiling is such a great exploration of what it is to be in the pressure cooker of being an artist in New York. And we can feel that so intensely and talking about the strain that's putting on the relationship. We see strain on the relationship between Kat and Megan. We see Megan questioning her purpose, you know, a lot of the artistic struggles that many people have faced. But then we get to a song called When It Falls, which is where we see a breaking point.

[7:06] Karl Amundson: We got to talk about that wedding.

[7:08] Emily Fink: Talk about the wedding. It's a lead in.

[7:10] Karl Amundson: This was such a fun scene to create because it got to blow a gasket in some ways. At this point, you know, Megan is sort of getting to the end of her rope. She's been offered to work on this sort of avant-garde passion project with a friend from high school. Her girlfriend is questioning that. She's been unemployed and it doesn't seem to have a skip in her step to get a new job. And tension is rising, as you mentioned. And so her two best friends from college, they were all a foursome, John and Claire, her friends, and Megan. John and Claire are getting married. At this wedding, we start to see Megan's anxiety around adulthood and maturing and moving forward with life start to reveal itself because John and Claire are getting married and they're starting to pull away.

And Megan feels like before you know it, they're going to be living in the suburbs and we're not going to have our friends anymore. Megan and Kat start to pull away from each other ideals wise and seeing that's actually something Kat might be ready for and Megan has resentment towards. So basically, Megan gets super fucked up and blows up the wedding in a couple of different ways.

[8:30] Emily Fink: This is a well-crafted scene. I was sweating. Thinking that the thing that ruins the wedding has already happened. And then it just keeps and then it gets worse.

[8:34] Karl Amundson: We truly are falling forward in that moment because like, it's falling forward in that way. We're just falling down.

[8:36] Emily Fink: And you keep trying to keep yourself from hitting the ground, but you just keep tripping closer and closer to the floor.

[8:43] Karl Amundson: We keep trying to see someone recover.

[8:45] Emily Fink: Oh my God. And it's also, I mean, when you're 27, you're at that age where everyone starts getting married. You're going to four or five, six weddings a year.

[8:52] Karl Amundson: Oh yeah.

[8:54] Emily Fink: So the anxiety, as an artist, as someone who works in the wedding industry, yay, congratulations, woo. No, but it's one of those things where it really starts to hit you where everyone else is. Like you start getting the anxiety of like, people are moving on and I am stuck. Everyone else seems to be doing this. But then also Megan trying to convince herself that no one is happy about it. And I think that self-destruction is, it's really sad to see, but then you also see, and you understand the frustration of the people around her. You're like, oh yeah, Megan is a little bit the problem here, guys.

[9:31] Karl Amundson: At the wedding, Megan is for sure the problem.

[9:34] Emily Fink: But you start to see the other side of it of like, yes, it's like, we can be struggling and having all this going on, but what is the impact outside of our room? How are we affecting the people in our lives? What was it like to write that number given the scene being so insane?

[9:49] Karl Amundson: Perhaps there was an inspiration behind this number that we don't know about.

[9:51] Emily Fink: I hope not.

[9:52] Karl Amundson: I certainly hope there wasn't.

[9:55] Emily Fink: Luckily not.

[9:56] Karl Amundson: Oh, everyone's like, go loosen up their shirts.

[9:58] Emily Fink: Yeah, like who are we talking about here? This is Backstage Pass after all.

[10:02] Karl Amundson: Well, number one, so When It Falls is a number that is probably right now winning the competition for most rewritten because getting this...

[10:09] Emily Fink: Oh, this is the Backstage Pass. We love a rewrite on Backstage Pass, y'all.

[10:14] Karl Amundson: Getting the moment just right is challenging. It's the end of the act. It's a big turning point in the show. Yeah, I don't know. It's been rewritten a lot. I mean, I think in regards to the wedding itself, which I think fuels this song, the emotion from the wedding, I certainly felt that kind of, I'm falling behind. I'm still lost in what I'm trying to do. There's a time in your life where you feel like you are a walking embarrassment while there are people in your life who are figuring it out in the way that you cannot conceive of yet in terms of commitment, whether it's commitment to people, commitment to a career, commitment to a lifestyle. And the wedding is really Megan's reckoning with that and the fallout of her trying to resist the culture of everyone else's commitment, you know, literally a wedding and doing an adult thing. Her rejection of that really bites her in the ass and she really messes up.

[11:18] Emily Fink: I think that ultimately this song, When It Falls, was born out of the conversations I've had with many people in my life, and I think I've been on both sides of it, where you are just not in the same place as someone else. You need to reckon with, is this something that's making sense, right? And whether that's happening on a relationship level where it's happening in this show, I think that also happens with our parents. That happens with our friends. I've been in a lot of different situations, and truly on both sides of it, where it's like you feel that a relationship isn't serving you or isn't compatible because you're in two extremely different places. So, I mean, that is kind of the literal dramatic meat of the scene.

However, I think in a more bird's eye view way, we're examining in When It Falls is Megan's propensity to give up on things when things are hard, right? And that her past and her present are kind of mirroring each other in that moment. Her life has been really terrible. She has made the decision to give up on her artistic ambitions and move out of the city. Her relationship is really hard. She makes the decision to say, screw this, I don't need this. You know, at what point does throwing it all away actually not lead to renewal? And that's been something that we've tried to examine in the show at large, but specifically in this scene, sort of renewal and throwing it all away and examining that.

[12:51] Karl Amundson: The scene that leads up to When It Falls. So after the wedding explosion, big humongous disaster, full face plant on Megan's behalf, we go to the hotel room where Kat and Megan are staying. And this is where the next level of shit goes down, where Kat sort of hits the end of her rope and is like, what is wrong with you? What is going on? You're a disaster. Her patience has run dry. I think Megan gets to a point where her choices are, continue to be dragged behind this group of people as they cross the finish line and continue to feel behind and behind and behind and less than and whatever, or cut ties and just free fall. And that's sort of where that When It Falls came, because originally we had a Falling Forward titled song there, but it seemed too optimistic.

Like I'm just going to say screw you everyone and then go whatever. And so this new edition that Carl wrote over the probably the last year or two, When It Falls is much more about that moment of free fall where you're like, whatever it is, it's just not this. I'm out of here. I'm going to collect myself somehow. I'm going to hit the ground somehow. But like, this is the moment of free fall. Like Carl was saying, it is mirrored. We come back to the present moment in her apartment. We've sort of been in this memory that gets bigger.

[14:39] ♪ Musical number: "When It Falls" — performed by Emily Kristen Morris ♪

[17:20] Karl Amundson: What I find really interesting about this moment, and we see this so often in musical theater, right, that, you know, a song is a decision point or an event, the culminating point of the scene. But in this one, you know so clearly that Megan is making bad decisions. Oh, no, Megan. Oh, no. Please don't. Please don't. As Cat and Megan, their relationship is ending. The pulsing aspect of the music is slow and steady, but also gives you a feeling of dread in a way.

[17:49] Emily Fink: Yes. Yes. You know, I started with just that drum beat underneath it. And of course, you know, we had all of these arrangements are so far just by me on instruments I can play.

[18:00] Karl Amundson: That's crazy, by the way.

[18:01] Emily Fink: So that's so good. Thank you. That's very, very sweet. I mean, this to say there are not full band arrangements yet, but like it was funny because the first thing I started writing the song with was just that drum beat. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I was thinking I'd program more drums. And I was like, No, I just kind of want that. I just kind of want that one beat underneath it. So there aren't any other drums in the piece other than there's like a reverb clap. But just that feeling that there's just like this one like timer. That's also a heartbeat at the same time.

[18:41] Karl Amundson: It's all I mean, a triple whiskey is a wild initial drink.

[18:45] Emily Fink: He's got weird. I mean, listen, I if I had a nickel for every triple whiskey I've had, I'll drink to that. I mean, the thing too, about having a breakdown and really hitting rock bottom is like rock bottom is solid ground. You hit the floor, you know where you are. And sometimes where you are may or may not be back in Michigan. We talked so much about she's packing up the apartment, she's figuring what to do. And it's that she's probably gonna have to move back in with her mom in her home state of Michigan in this podunk little town, which I know you've both mentioned being from the Midwest. Are you also from very small towns? Or was this sort of conceived specifically for Megan?

[19:29] Karl Amundson: I'm from a small college town called Carbondale, Illinois, and I'm from a smallish town called Northfield, Minnesota. So we combined we combined Carbondale and Northfield to make Carbondale.

[19:46] Emily Fink: Oh, my backstage pass. But I was like, I was like, it sounds so sad to be from like a field. No, it was felt in the writing. I was like, if it's real, I don't want to be insensitive. My town is like about a population of 20,000. So it's not like small, small, small, but my backyard is a cornfield. On my town's top 10 list of things to do at one point number eight was going to the Dollar Tree. So it's not a huge metropolis. We all have our draws. And I was very I loved living there, but I didn't know anything bigger. I thought Cincinnati was the biggest city I'd ever see. And then I moved to New York.

[20:46] Karl Amundson: Oh, yeah. So it's about scale.

[20:48] Emily Fink: No, I resonate with that. I spend a week each year in the state of Wisconsin, assisting on a musical theater production with the students of Marshfield High School. And the last time I was there, I've been to a few places in the Midwest. But I asked, what is a definitive Wisconsin experience that I can do when I'm here?

[21:02] Karl Amundson: A definitive Wisconsin experience. There's this gas station, which has an amazing grocery selection and people go and buy their fruit, their produce from that gas station because it's better than a grocery store. I went there. I didn't buy anything. But I was supposed to buy the fruit. It was my last day. That was probably gonna be the best corn you'd ever had. Slash apple slash whatever. I know not to be ignorant. I don't know. But that's not a produce.

[21:29] Emily Fink: I do. I do like Culver's. But what I think is so great about the song is there's a comfort to those places. It can be so much easier to feel like you exist there than in a place like New York. So, yeah. Can you tell us more about the song and give us more background on why you chose to write it?

[21:42] Karl Amundson: This song is my anthem, man. This song. Well, first of all, you know, my wife always makes fun of me because, like, I'm always like, gosh, New York. New York is the worst. We could live in a place that's so much cheaper, where we can see trees everywhere we go, where there's space, where people are friendly. It just makes no sense that we live here other than, you know, what we want to do for careers this year. Such an unfortunate New York situation. Why did theater have to exist in New York of all places? Why is Broadway here? So anyway, I mean, like, this is just a song that I feel is just very, like, earnestly what I always say about the Midwest. And it's so funny because this song was also coming off that time in my life where I was living all the time at home.

Yes, it was its own form of torture, sort of reverting to being a child at home with your parents, right? However, I gotta say, everybody knew who I was in my hometown. Everybody cared about how I was doing and would check in and would make me feel like I was a value. Yeah. And everything is easier. You know, it's just easier. It's calmer, right? And so for Megan, I think the fun of this song is to be like, you could have everything that you actually want right now. People who care about you, comfort and ease if you leave New York.

[23:11] Emily Fink: So it's incredibly seductive.

[23:12] Karl Amundson: To me, totally. I imagine this is like beautiful noise, crunchy granola, sweet-esque, like just a romp, welcome to Oz, you know, frenetic, just an explosion of Midwestern culture, which I think, you know, it's one short day for corn.

[23:28] Emily Fink: Yes. But also, it's so great that you're bringing that energy in in the midst of Act Two, because so often, you know, if we don't surprise the audience in Act Two, they start to tune out. So that was smart, dramaturgically. We needed a dramatic shift. And it's kind of fun that this brings the Midwestern, like, where is she going? I think that people get, okay, sure, Megan's moving. Obviously, her life here sucks for a lot of reasons. But man, it also sounds really dramatic to move home with your mom at 27. Why would she do that? And so we sort of had the realization we needed to write a seductive number. There used to be a song in this place, which was much beloved and very sadly cut, which was called living with your mother is a fucking nightmare.

[24:10] Emily Fink: We love a kill your darlings moment.

[24:12] Karl Amundson: That's the name of the song. And I loved it so much. It was the same character would sing it and it was actually like a foreboding like tune of like, you can't move home. Because it's a nightmare.

[24:22] Emily Fink: It's such a great song in the deluxe album.

[24:25] Karl Amundson: Oh, yeah. Some kid in college is gonna sing it to me like this is a deep cut from falling forward. I don't know if you guys even know that there were extra tracks, but I found the sheet music because they went to a signing. It's gonna be like that kid. And that kid was us. So yeah, I hope so. We can dream.

[24:41] Emily Fink: Amazing. And who is singing Midwestern life?

[24:46] Karl Amundson: EJ Adzima. PJ Adzima is currently playing Elder McKinley in Book of Mormon. Phenomenal, phenomenal Broadway actor and a good friend of mine. And when I was thinking of a cheesy white guy, he was the first guy that came to mind.

[25:01] Emily Fink: He'll be so glad to hear.

[25:02] Karl Amundson: We're very lucky to have him. He's the best.

[25:05] Karl Amundson: Here is Midwestern life performed by PJ Adzima.

[25:11] ♪ Musical number: "Midwestern Life" — performed by PJ Adzima ♪

[28:18] ♪ Musical number: "Midwestern Life" — performed by PJ Adzima ♪

[28:54] Pauls Macs: That was fun. But can I say as someone who's from a city, and like I'm from San Francisco, right? Shout out to SF because there are two other SF people on this soundtrack: Reid Campbell, Emily Kristen Morris, also San Franciscans. Fun fact. But as someone who grew up in a city, and sure it's one of the smaller cities, but it's like a city city, when you guys were like, oh, the old song was really foreboding and like this one is so seductive. I left the song being like, this is my nightmare when I first read it in the script because I read before I listen to sort of make sure that I understand the context of things. It was like, you know, 30 churches, 20 bars, 10,000 people. It's all ours. We don't have public transit.

We all commute in cars. I was like, this is purgatory to me. This is the scariest. The idea that I'm in a place where everyone knows who I am and I have no privacy and it's just like it felt like it's like, oh, well, if everyone knows what I do all the time, it's having to be performative. So the reverse pressure of having to be successful and have everything together. I felt it more in a song like this, which is so funny, right? It's perhaps true that seductive is the wrong word to describe.

[30:01] Karl Amundson: Oh, no, I mean, sorry, like and that's the thing about musical theater. I'm from Olympia, Washington. I love to go to a parking lot where I don't have to be stressed about where I'm going to park, where there's too many parking spaces in Seattle. There's a sugar tax. You can't buy soda here without paying extra. So whenever I go visit my parents, I go to the Fred Meyer and I get all the soda I want for the next three months. Yeah, it has its advantages, but it really depends on if you were born and raised there. I think there's certainly an amount of nostalgia that appeals to Midwesterners about, you know, I'm going to go to the pancake house in my town that everybody knows me. And even though that sounds excruciating, there is something comforting about that part of the fun of the song was putting all that because it's really a list song, right?

It's really just like we have all these things. I think a lot of the fun of the song was putting all the things in the song. There's a big part of me that truly loves it and a big part of me that truly hates it.

[31:00] Emily Fink: Yeah, like or like things that I used to love. I used to think tipping cows was so cool. And now I'm like only assholes tip cows. Why would people do that? I literally didn't know that was real until I was in my 20s. I thought that was like a trope people made up. I think that also speaks to the fact that like I didn't start to appreciate the love and appeal of smaller towns till I was older and started visiting them as an adult, you know, because when you're a kid, you're like, what do you mean? I can't get Vietnamese food at 1 a.m.? That's crazy. How do they live? And then you go and everyone really is so nice. I did a tour. It was like the first gig I booked when I was in New York and I remember traveling to all the Midwestern states and I was like, I get it.

This is nice, right? Because everyone would be like, oh, you're the performers who came. Oh, you're in that show that came over there. That's incredible. You know, it was like you can feel the dichotomy in it that it's both a joyful like hey, come on back. This is everything that you've missed and everything you want but also the like, oh, but this is everything I left: yellow salad and deep fried cheese. Like is that really? Yeah, so I can only imagine in writing this sort of like having to hold those two things as two artists who are still in New York, like having left and then made the decision to come back. We don't know what Megan decides unless we listen to the album. So barnacles get on that.

You should go listen to it. But I mean, I can only imagine that getting to write this song as like a love letter to where you're from, but also sort of like having a show that is a love letter to where you are no matter where that is. But in this particular instance in that moment of do I keep pursuing the same dream? Do I give up that dream or what does it look like? If that dream can shift and in the context of the show and Megan's struggle, the thing that she has to help her make this decision. I mean, she does talk to her mom, but in the end of the day in her room, she's alone with those objects and those objects are speaking to her and putting that pressure on her.

[32:51] Pauls Macs: So Teresa, I believe you designed a little game.

[32:53] Teresa Attridge: Oh my gosh barnacles. It's our fan favorite segment. Our only segment. All right, it's time to play our game. Now as y'all know and Karl, Emily, as you're about to find out, at the end of every episode, we like to play a fun little game with our guests and it is tailored specifically to your show. And this one is called Major Props. The idea is that in your show, you have all of these items that you know are representing different parts of Megan's journey and psychosis and you know, the way that Megan feels about herself. It's all reflected in these different items that sort of like guide her both through and into her crises. I would like to know what three iconic musical theater items would you want to have guiding you through your own crisis of self, right? We're talking Elphaba's broom. We're talking Sweeney's razor. We're talking Jack Kelly's suspenders. We're talking, you know, whatever it is. What do you what do y'all think?

[34:01] Karl Amundson: You said newspaper when we were talking about the game, but I love that. The obvious one is newspaper, but I was like, let's be honest. The suspenders do. They're holding up more than pants in that show. They do more. All right. Have you? So if y'all want, you can go ahead. If you want to like spitball, if you've got one to start or a powser, I could start if you guys need a sec.

[34:06] Emily Fink: I like actually think I have three. I don't know if they're good. And also, you know, not every item is there for a good reason and you will see shortly why I think in a crisis, I would have Valjean's silver candlesticks because in a pinch I could use a couple thousand dollars or whatever a little cushion money can't hurt. And then for better or for worse. And these aren't objects, but they're personified. I don't know. There's something personified. I unfortunately think the Bad Idea Bears would be working in tandem with me the entire time. They are my favorite characters in Avenue Q. Yes, exactly. Like, unfortunately, they're there as well. And then like this one might be a little simplistic, but when in doubt, I'd love to come and go by bubble. So when this bubble would be a great exit strategy for me.

[35:02] Pauls Macs: I had one clarifying question about the game that occurred to me just now, Teresa, which is to say that like the Bad Idea Bears, they can speak, but I had envisioned that these inanimate objects, that the candlesticks could speak to you. And the way that they do these things do in your show and Falling Forward.

[35:16] Karl Amundson: Yeah, they come to life and talk to you. So you also got to figure those candlesticks are going to be like, have you been to church? Have you? Unfortunately, you're right.

[35:25] Pauls Macs: Oh, so these are personified objects.

[35:29] Emily Fink: Well, I can make it better. Probably be a fun time. The surround sound in the bubble. You know, I think it's still a good choice.

[35:36] Pauls Macs: That's true. I might have to know, but that I love the initial. We'll get you a 29-hour reading. Emily came in so hot and so prepared, but so hot and so wrong. I'm like, I'm like, if the group, I think they're good choices. Emily, I want to go on the record and say, I think they're all the choices. I absolutely and all from really good musicals. I think the grimmery, especially if the grimmery could talk to me and like teach me how to speak the grimmery language. Canama naman, right? Yeah, right. And like and also tell me like what spell will actually give me what I want. I got a feeling like the grimmery might be a little conniving. I don't know. It's very monkey's paw. So we'll see the grimmery might be sus, but if they would be my friend, I'd be thrilled to have a friend in the grimmery. I think I could do really well with that car.

[36:28] Emily Fink: Oh, say future. Oh, I forgot back to the future is now in the canon. That's really now in the canon and that car can fly and that car can transport me anywhere I want if it can talk to me. Awesome. I love cars. Brilliant choice.

[36:45] Pauls Macs: Yeah, so like I'll take a DeLorean also help you predict exactly. Famously, you need a car in the Midwest. It came up in the song. You need a car in the Midwest. And precisely one of the reasons why New York occasionally frustrates me. Public transit is good for the people and bad for my soul.

[37:02] Karl Amundson: No, I love public transit as long as it works.

[37:05] Pauls Macs: Okay, which it often doesn't in New York.

[37:06] Karl Amundson: It never does.

[37:08] Pauls Macs: One more. I'll go with the reindeers name. It's been frozen.

[37:12] Emily Fink: Sven.

[37:14] Pauls Macs: I just want a pet and like a sweet one that I can like, what? So what? And what? It'd be like a carrot so that he would always like appear.

[37:22] Emily Fink: Oh, okay. I guess that's more of like a real prop.

[37:24] Pauls Macs: Yeah, unless you're thinking like the literal like the inanimate puppet comes to life in the Broadway.

[37:30] Emily Fink: Yeah, exactly. If the inanimate puppet.

[37:33] Pauls Macs: Oh, I love that. You and I wouldn't even have to be a puppeteer out of a job.

[37:37] Emily Fink: Thank you so much.

[37:38] Pauls Macs: Or yeah, sure, a carrot. But if the carrot is personified, then I would have to deal with that carrot being eaten. I mean, listen, that's life, which is devastating. That's VeggieTales After Dark. That's life, man.

[37:50] Emily Fink: Yeah, I just love the thought process of, oh, that's not going to work. Wait. Yes, it will. It's a puppet.

[37:56] Pauls Macs: Which is what we do with puppets. We can't go on a puppet tirade. I will talk for like another two hours.

[38:01] Emily Fink: Wait, you know puppetry on Broadway?

[38:03] Pauls Macs: Do I know it? Yes.

[38:04] Emily Fink: Yeah, there's like an organization. We'll get into it. Emily, we have things to discuss.

[38:10] Pauls Macs: My answer would be, my first one was, I would want the paintbrush from Sunday in the Park with George because I want to both manifest my reality, but also be obsessive about it and want it to be perfect. And it would either feed my anxiety or soothe my anxiety, but we don't know yet because that's art, baby. I would also want Jenna's rolling pin from Waitress because I could, you know, it's a tool that both brings comfort and love to others, but I could disguise all my secrets in there. You know, I could let some stuff out. The rolling pin would be very much about both letting go and rolling back. You know, it's that repetitive motion. And then I think for my last one, man, you really got me with the candlesticks one because now I'm like, oh man, that was so good.

I think I would do for my last one. This is kind of a cheat, but I think I would want one of the microphones from Spring Awakening, right? Like it is both a prop that is and isn't in the world of the show, right? But I think the ability to just like have a microphone whip out to be like, how are you feeling right now? What are you doing right now? Right? Which sometimes you don't want those thoughts amplified, but sometimes you do and you need to let it out. So I think those would be my three. And then Pals, you had some, you had some good ones.

[39:20] Pauls Macs: I love that. This was a big Pals week. I just said Excalibur from Camelot because I want that sword on my wall. People would love it. Although, I'm not sure it would give me the best advice, but I still feel like I'm getting the wisdom of King Arthur. I'm not sure he had the best wisdom in that production or in that story, but I'd still like to hear that point of view. Somehow, as I've mentioned several times this podcast and I always challenge myself to do something new, a new musical. I'm from the Pacific Northwest and famously it rains a lot here. So I was thinking about umbrellas and my mind first went to Don Lockwood's umbrella from Singing in the Rain because teach me how to dance, teach me how to be smooth, teach me how to do stunts, actually.

And then I was like umbrella umbrella. Are there any other famous umbrellas in the canon? And I thought Mary Poppins' umbrella, you know, Mary Poppins' umbrella would give me lots of great advice. Maybe sing me a song when I'm feeling low. And also, like after you had mentioned that I was like, oh, Mary Poppins' bag, obviously. Oh, we need the bag in New York. The whole apartment in the bag. I'm actually gonna take Don's umbrella and Mary Poppins' bag and I'll have like a whole ensemble. You know what Pals, you are proof that we can have it all.

[40:30] Emily Fink: Did you want to return to anything?

[40:32] Karl Amundson: I stand by what I said only because I don't know. So I haven't given it any good thought.

[40:38] Pauls Macs: That's right. I think if they were personified, I think the candlesticks would tell me when to sell them at the highest market rate and the bubble would be a delicious, oh yeah, acoustical dream and could help me beat traffic and would pop up at the most opportune moment. And the Bad Idea Bears are, we all need a little Bad Idea Bear.

[40:58] Pauls Macs: So good. Karl, Emily, thank you so much for being here and for sharing this piece with us and with the Barnacles. Barnacles are our fans, by the way, because they stick with us. New York Theatre Barn.

[41:08] Karl Amundson: I love that.

[41:09] Pauls Macs: All right. I love them. Thank you so much for having us. This has been awesome. The piece really is beautiful. I mean, in your own sort of struggles and everything that you two have been through, through very low lows, you've created such high highs in this piece and it really is a love letter to everyone who has ever moved to the city and wondered, you know, are they doing the right thing? Do they belong in it? And I think, you know, the only answer is if you're going to fall, you got to fall forward.

[41:35] Emily Fink: Amen.

[41:35] Pauls Macs: I feel like your piece is so encouraging. That was the word that kept coming to my mind, which is yes, it shines a light on struggles. But at the end of it, I'm not going to spoil the ending precisely, but I will say I felt so encouraged after encountering your musical.

[41:50] Karl Amundson: Oh, yeah.

[41:50] Emily Fink: Thank you so much for being here.

[41:53] Pauls Macs: Thanks for listening Barnacles. We'll see you again soon.

[41:55] Emily Fink: Thank you, Barnacles.

[41:57] Pauls Macs: Thanks for joining us on New York Theatre Barn's Backstage Pass, hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs. And if you believe in supporting original culture-shifting musicals, please like, subscribe, and share.