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[0:00] Teresa Attridge: Welcome to a very special episode of Backstage Pass. We're doing something we've never done before. This is the first of a two-part series that takes you backstage at the National Alliance for Musical Theater's 37th annual Festival of New Musicals that recently happened in New York City.

[0:22] Teresa Attridge: Our beloved co-host of the show, Teresa Attridge, could not join us on this particular adventure due to a tonsillectomy. So our special guest co-host of this episode is New York Theater Barn's Artistic Director, Joe Barros.

[0:44] Joe Barros: We were able to interview live the writers of the musicals that appeared at the festival. There are eight new musicals total, and you'll hear about four of those shows from the writers today.

[1:05] Joe Barros: But before we get there, I had a chance to speak with Frankie Daly, the New Works Director at NAMT, about the festival and what makes the festival such an important part of the musical theater landscape.

[1:29] Joe Barros: I'm here with Frankie Daly, the New Works Director of NAMT. Hey, Frankie, thanks for joining us.

[1:33] Frankie Daly: Hello, hello. Thanks for having me.

[1:35] Joe Barros: Again, I'd love for you just to talk with us about what NAMT is, what the festival is, and why it's such a special experience.

[1:42] Frankie Daly: NAMT, or the National Alliance for Musical Theater, is a membership organization. So our members are producers and presenters in the field of musical theater. Not necessarily new musicals, but musical theater in one way or another. Our goal is ultimately to bring this membership together in furtherance of the field entirely.

[2:01] Frankie Daly: And for us, that takes place through a few different kinds of programs, ultimately in our New Works department, that bring producers and writers together. Who are those producers? For us, that looks a lot like regional producing organizations all across the country and really around the globe.

[2:16] Frankie Daly: So theater companies, and it's a lot of the big ones, the household names of the American theater, but then also developing organizations and organizations that are committed to seeing the fulfillment of that entire development pathway for a new musical.

[2:29] Frankie Daly: So theater companies and then commercial producers, like you might know, on Broadway or off-Broadway or the West End or in Toronto or Korea and otherwise. In addition to academic institutions. So musical theater programs at colleges and universities, plus student producers. And then beyond that, there's a whole realm of independent producers and art services organizations.

[2:52] Frankie Daly: Again, that are all coming together just to further this art form and band together to leverage resources to be able to continue developing and producing new work. The festival is one of our largest gatherings of that membership, plus hundreds and hundreds of other producers and presenters in the field.

[3:11] Frankie Daly: For us, that looks like two days in New York City at New World Stages. This year we had over 1,200 people join us for the first time. This is an industry exclusive event for the most part too. So this is a substantial showing of the American theater making it out for this. This is our first year with over 1,200 folks. This is our first year with over a thousand attendees. So there's a lot of energy also that comes behind this as well.

[3:38] Frankie Daly: At the festival, we are highlighting eight musicals, new musicals that have been selected over the course of a seven month selection process. This year we had 537 submissions into the festival. So it's an incredibly competitive program as well. These musicals are selected over the course of three different rounds of consideration. That's ultimately facilitated by over 120 working professionals in musical theater across the country.

[4:06] Frankie Daly: It really is an exciting environment to be part of. As, for example, an artistic associate in New York Theater Barn, we're very focused on developing writers across the country. But many of our contacts are in New York City. Or myself, Pauls, the artistic associate of New York Theater Barn, lives in Seattle. And is very focused with my own theater company on developing musical theater artists in Seattle.

[4:27] Frankie Daly: Two days a year, you get to come together with all these people you know. And you see your friends from, for example, Red Mountain Theater in Alabama. And you see these eight musicals that are curated from across the country. It's just such a thrilling artistic environment to be part of.

[4:41] Joe Barros: From your perspective, Frankie, if you're an artist that gets selected to participate in the festival, as a musical theater writer specifically, why is that such an amazing opportunity for you? What are the benefits of that experience?

[4:54] Frankie Daly: From where I stand, I think it is in the considerable promotional value. You know, you get an opportunity to do a 29 hour reading anywhere else. And the challenge of that might be in developing an audience that has the potential really to move your project forward. Without some sort of connection to a heavyweight producer or organization or institution that might be able to help you make those contacts.

[5:20] Frankie Daly: So for something like this at the festival, you know, we are a promotional event. You know, I don't try to murky that with a heavy focus on development. You know, we only present 45 minute cuts of the musicals. And so there's inherently development as a part of that process in collaborating with other artists. And also just narrowing the focus of your storytelling briefly for this part of the whole process of the development of a show. But it's not necessarily our focus.

[5:46] Frankie Daly: Our focus is on that audience, is on developing the highest quality and greatest impact of people that we can have in the room. And for you to get an ample opportunity to be able to make your pitch in a quality sense. And that's over the course really of several months too. You know, that begins at the point that we announce the musicals in the summer around the 4th of July. And that'll continue through the summer as we market to our members.

[6:11] Frankie Daly: Not only this event, but also an awareness of these artists and these projects. So that they can start to get an understanding of where they're at in their point of development. And what goals that they also might have post festival. It's all about building up interest. So that by the time they see that presentation, there's something there that they might already have a connection with. Or that they may be interested in enough to approach NAMT or to approach the writers to gather more info.

[6:36] Frankie Daly: And that might be materials. It might just be a meeting. It might be finding out what happens on the other side of that cliffhanger. One thing that's really exciting. I believe this was my 4th or 5th NAMT Festival. I stopped counting. But to see shows you see at NAMT then go on to further development. And for example, there have been shows that have been on backstage pass. For example, the first time I saw King of Pangaea was at the NAMT Festival. And now to have seen that show gone on to its world premiere productions. How thrilling to see that development over the course of years.

[7:04] Frankie Daly: There's also an investment in the writers. I'm a big fan of pop music. And generally just big music industry overall. I pay a lot of attention to how those artists are packaged and presented to an audience. And there's an astonishing number of resources that are available to independent musicians. In terms of promoting themselves and developing an audience. That musical theater folks have not quite gripped onto as well. I try to bring a little bit of all of that to this festival process.

[7:35] Frankie Daly: And you get to see then the artists move forward. The authentic investment and excitement that we experience through you is palpable. When you're introducing these shows. The last question I'd love to ask you is what is it like to experience the festival from your perspective? I imagine that is just a wild two days. And I'd love to know a little bit more about what your experience is like.

[7:57] Frankie Daly: So I have been a part of this festival team for 12 years. This year has been terrible for particularly non-profits in our biz. And the resilience that has developed around particularly the festival. But also around the entire continuum of our programs. With not only NAMT but the art form and the future of the art form. I think that has probably become one of the most exciting parts of all of it for me.

[8:22] Frankie Daly: Seeing how the festival is actually just one slice of this quickly spinning wheel. And despite and maybe even in spite of all of the difficulty this year. So many people have seen this organization as a beacon. And this event as a beacon. And I do think, I do believe that it's provided hope. It's provided a sense of clarity around what a pathway forward for a lot of organizations and artists might be right now. And so I feel very proud of that. And very proud also of the team that puts this together.

[8:56] Frankie Daly: And I have to give a shout out to our senior producing team. Sky Kona Ivy who is also NAMT's new works associate. Greg Camp who is one of our senior producers. And Joey Monda. This event would not happen without the three of them especially. And all of the NAMT staff beyond that. But I hear a lot of nice things around this time of the year. And so I want to just take a moment and make sure that they hear it too.

[9:17] Joe Barros: Well that's well said. Because while you're running around you absolutely can feel the support of the NAMT staff. The whole NAMT staff is fantastic. So I really appreciate that you shouted them out.

[9:26] Frankie Daly: Well thank you so much for dropping by Frankie. We appreciate it. And now on to the shows. Our first show is Finn. You may have heard of this show when it had its tour canceled by the Kennedy Center in February of 2025. Despite this cancellation the show has continued forward. And its appearance at NAMT is part of that.

[9:43] Joe Barros: I was able to catch up with the writers shortly after I saw their presentation. These are live recordings in the midst of a thriving theater festival. Don't be afraid to turn up the volume if needed.

[9:52] Joe Barros: Hello everyone. This is Pauls. We are live at the NAMT Festival with the team from Finn. Can you please introduce yourselves?

[9:59] Chris Nee: Hi I'm Chris Nee and I am co-book and lyricist.

[10:03] Michael Kooman: I am Michael Kooman. I'm the co-composer.

[10:06] Chris Dimond: And I'm Chris Dimond. I'm the other co-book writer and co-lyricist.

[10:09] Joe Barros: Fantastic. Well your show has gotten a lot of national attention recently. But it would be amazing if you could tell us about the show in your own words.

[10:18] Chris Nee: Sure. So Finn is the tale of a young shark named Finn. Who is growing up in a shark pack but is very stoic and aggressive and brave. And on a chance encounter he meets a fish named Cecil. Who shows him the very colorful, vibrant, expressive world of fish. And he realizes deep down he may actually be that fish.

[10:37] Chris Nee: You know the show has gotten a lot of attention because its run at the Kennedy Center was recently canceled. If you don't know about that maybe you should Google it. You are listening to a musical theater podcast after all. But so team can you tell me about your week at NAMT.

[10:51] Michael Kooman: For us the biggest thing is you know we have a show that someone was trying to silence. And this is a wonderful opportunity for us to get in front of a lot of the presenters around the country. Who can help us with our mission. Which is to make sure that this show is seen by the kids for whom we wrote it. These kids are under attack right now.

[11:12] Chris Dimond: We think that the message is actually unbelievably uncontroversial. We are really just saying if you have something that makes you feel different and special. You should be able to do and be whatever that is. So it really isn't a controversial message. But we are excited to get it out into the world and NAMT is going to help us do that.

[11:35] Joe Barros: I love that answer. That's a great answer. You said something at the festival preview presentation. That this show is evidence that if you try to silence a voice. It will only become stronger. And I think that restrains it.

[11:46] Chris Nee: Absolutely the bar restrains it. Speaking up. So I think this is a perfect evidence of that. And it's so great to see at the NAMT festival. And then we will go on to be seen by so many people because of that.

[11:59] Michael Kooman: And I will also say that we have been the recipient of something that I think anyone in this community knows. Which is that the theater community shows up for its own. It has been an incredible experience to feel held and supported by everyone who has showed up.

[12:17] Chris Dimond: To rally around us really when the shit hit the fan.

[12:22] Joe Barros: You can curse. This is a podcast. I'm not editing that out.

[12:26] Chris Dimond: It is a children's show.

[12:30] Chris Nee: Chris did you want to add anything or what was the week like for you?

[12:33] Michael Kooman: I think these two summed it up pretty well. It's been a tremendous week. It's always just such a privilege to be here at NAMT. And to get to connect with so many theater people. And to be reminded of the strength of this community. Which as Chris mentioned earlier has been a real blessing for us. And a real restoration of faith in humanity in the world. The way people have rallied around this show.

[12:55] Chris Dimond: Absolutely. I think one of the great things about NAMT. You just said community. Is we're going to see your show and experience that. But then we also get to experience seven other musicals. And we see the writers talking about each other's shows. Getting excited about each other's shows. Just another really fantastic moment being here.

[13:14] Joe Barros: Because as an attendee I can get excited for everything. But you as writers have your own unique perspective to share with each other.

[13:19] Chris Nee: We're usually quite siloed off from other writers. So it is one of the nice things is getting to be in time and space. With all these other people who are going on these crazy journeys. Different places around the world at the same time that we are.

[13:32] Joe Barros: Well I just want to say that I fully resonate with what you're trying to do. To show especially the kiddos out there. That if they think they're different and there's something wrong with that. It's fine to be different. It's such a powerful message that needs to be heard. Especially right now.

[13:45] Joe Barros: And now we're going to play a demo recording from Finn. So those who couldn't join us at NAMT can get a taste of what the show sounds like. Here is Sparkle and Shine.

[13:55] ♪ Musical number: "Sparkle and Shine" — performed by Zachary Noah Piser ♪

[14:53] ♪ Musical number: "Sparkle and Shine" — performed by Zachary Noah Piser ♪

[16:25] Pauls Macs: Our next show is Love is Dead. This is the first show that Joe Barros and I were able to interview together. Joe and I were on different festival tracks, so we were seeing different shows on different days. But we were able to come together in this moment to interview these writers.

[16:38] Pauls Macs: Hello, it's Pauls, live again from the NAMT Festival, and I am here with the team from Love is Dead. Would you all introduce yourselves?

[16:45] Brett Ryback: Yes, my name is Brett Ryback, and I am the co-book writer and composer of Love is Dead.

[16:50] Jeff Rosito: I'm Jeff Rosito, I'm the co-book writer and the lyricist of Love is Dead.

[16:54] Pauls Macs: I really enjoyed your presentation, so funny, so charming. Can you tell us about your show in your own words?

[17:00] Brett Ryback: Love is Dead is this ghost rom-com musical. Our main character, Jordan, is coming off of a rough breakup. Things are not going well at work, so she takes this long weekend up in Hudson Valley to get away from it and work on her writing. But when she gets there, her Airbnb is haunted by an obnoxious and obnoxiously attractive ghost.

[17:22] Jeff Rosito: Yeah, what begins as a battle of wills blossoms into mutual affection and sexual experimentation between woman and ghost.

[17:30] Brett Ryback: Amazing. Do you want to say something else?

[17:33] Jeff Rosito: No, I know that's something people have been waiting to see, sexual experimentation between woman and ghost, and we did it. We were the ones who were brave enough to put it on stage.

[17:42] Brett Ryback: I didn't know that was something that I wanted to see, and you're absolutely right.

[17:47] Jeff Rosito: That's what theater's for, you know, to show us things we didn't know we wanted to see.

[17:52] Joe Barros: Hey guys, I'm Joe Barros, and I'm the director. Good to see you guys. I know nothing about the show, and I haven't seen it yet, so I think that's actually a great little sound bite. I'm excited to see it today. So tell us a little more about Richard Wheat's been like an int.

[18:04] Brett Ryback: It has felt like being shot out of a cannon and then punched in the face. It has been a whirlwind experience.

[18:10] Jeff Rosito: But punched in the face with love.

[18:12] Brett Ryback: Yeah, no, it's a good punch in the face, but no, I feel a little punch drunk by, yeah, I mean, just seeing all these people and having a lot of attention on our show, which is really, really exciting. And it's just that the energy in this building is like so palpable.

[18:26] Jeff Rosito: But the process is very fast and furious for anybody who hasn't done it. You're rehearsing your show for like 20 hours and you're putting it up in front of a whole slew of incredible people from across the country.

[18:37] Brett Ryback: Yeah, and I feel like we were well prepared because Brett had had that experience.

[18:44] Jeff Rosito: And yet still, he feels, as he said, face punched. Outside of your show, is there a show that you saw that really moved you throughout this process?

[18:52] Brett Ryback: Yeah, so we haven't seen everything yet. I don't want anybody to feel left out. Yesterday, I think, I tried to think, oh, I so adored Roja. I thought that was an absolutely beautiful soundscape, beautiful score, incredible world, and a really, really, really strong presentation.

[19:11] Jeff Rosito: Yeah, and at the same time he was seeing Roja, I saw Finn, which I also really love. It's really uplifting and really funny. I think, you know, you hear about the show and maybe some of the controversy around it, and you think, oh, it's, you know, heavy themes. No, it's an incredible time. Everyone in the theater was laughing. We had a really good time seeing it.

[19:29] Pauls Macs: Well, I want to ask you a question about, you know, when you're thinking about your now presentation and making the show producible, or even when you're just writing the show in general and trying to think about how to produce it in the year 2025. Can you talk a little bit about how you structured your show with the small cast of actors that you used?

[19:44] Brett Ryback: Yes, absolutely. Now, Brett and I first met because he was doing Murder for Two in this very building, New World Stages, and that was well before we started working together. Now we've been working together for eight years, but that was always in the back of our minds. Comedies with a small cast, Murder for Two is a two-person cast with one person putting on lots of hats, playing lots of characters. We wanted to do a version of that in our sensibility and our kind of story.

[20:08] Jeff Rosito: We're interested in comedies. Bringing that to the theater in 2025 is really important to us. And, yes, scalability. It's a three-person cast, but it can scale up or down. It can be done in a smaller space. Practically all the magic and ghostiness of the show can be offstage sound, light, or in a bigger space, you can really play it up. That was important to us because it's really important to us that theater is accessible, which means it can be performed beyond just New York, in regional theaters all around the country, and making it producible allows that to happen.

[20:44] Pauls Macs: Absolutely. I think that's very smart, and I want to make room for the large cast, too. But, you know, different creators have different approaches, and I love the way you went about it. The way that your show plays with the kind of classic boy meets girl, boy and girl hate each other, and then they fall in love is really, really funny. In this circumstance, one of them is dead. Can you talk about how you structured the show with that idea?

[21:05] Brett Ryback: Yeah, we were really charmed by the notion of girl meets ghost as a potential premise for a show. And as we dug into the tropes of the story beats of rom-coms and ghost stories, there was a lot of overlap that kind of surprised us. You've got this meet-cute where you find out the house is haunted. You've got this sort of like, oh, I hate you, I want to get rid of you, where you're trying literally to get rid of the ghost. And then at the end, there is this sort of come-to-acceptance, you fall in love, or in the case of a ghost story, you either move out of the house or you come to accept the ghost. There's some sort of moving on that happens at the end of those stories.

[21:44] Jeff Rosito: And in the matching of horror and love, there were also some really weird and fun overlaps, such as you're getting your heart broken, your heart literally stopping. In loving memory being both funereal and also sort of a romantic idea. And the idea of moving on isn't like moving on together or moving on to the light. So we just started to find all these really funny, really charming, really unexpected and surprising overlaps between ghost stories and love stories. And we wanted to sort of fill our show with as many of those as we could.

[22:14] Brett Ryback: There's also a really great Reality Bites reference in the show.

[22:17] Jeff Rosito: Thank you. We are very proud of our 90s reference.

[22:20] Pauls Macs: Yeah, any fans of the movie are going to be happy with this show. One last question for you, which is in the show, there's a character who plays multiple roles. And it's even more charming than it usually is because they're talking about a town that actually takes pride in the different people who have died there. Can you talk about the conception of that character?

[22:39] Brett Ryback: Yes. Thematically, we like that this character is not only a funny opportunity, of course, because they get to wear a million hats, be every weirdo in the town, as well as the best friend of our main character. But without giving anything away, one thing we also like is that in the end, our main character sort of has to come to terms with the fact that it's not all about her. She has this main character energy, and that is kind of manifest in this third person. So that's always present, too, that for her, her world is just a bunch of weirdos getting in her way, trying to achieve her goal. And our actor here, Brandon Contreras, just knocked it out of the party. And I would say that as much as the audience at NAMT got to see in our 45-minute presentation, the doublings get even more crazy and chaotic and fun and funny and unexpected in the second part of our show. So we're excited for anybody who wants to read the whole script and learn more about what happens there.

[23:38] Brett Ryback: We love a chaotic doubling. All right. Well, Jeff, Brett, thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations on your presentation.

[23:43] Brett Ryback: Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Joe. Pleasure. And we're looking forward to seeing, to having you see it.

[23:48] ♪ Musical number: "Fully Formed" — performed by Lana McKissack ♪

[27:03] Pauls Macs: Our next show is Soft Magical Tofu Boys by Kevin Wong. Let Kevin describe the show in his own words. But if you love the 90s, you're sure to love this colorful journey through a queer Asian fantasia, brimming with pop divas, anime princesses, disapproving ancestral spirits and more.

[27:19] Joe Barros: Joe served as a festival consultant on this show. Here we are with the writer of Soft Magical Tofu Boys, Kevin Wong. We are so excited to run into you. How are you doing, Kevin?

[27:30] Kevin Wong: I'm great. I'm having a really good time. It is fast, furious, and very fun.

[27:35] Joe Barros: Awesome. And I, Joe Barros, was a consultant on Soft Magical Tofu Boys. And I'll let Kevin tell you a little bit more about what that means.

[27:43] Kevin Wong: Yeah. You're new to the festival, usually when you're selected as a writer. And the festival does this very smart thing of hooking you up with two consultants to be your advisors so that you can navigate the wild and fast world of this festival. You were one of them in the Litan Crystal from EastWest Players and my other one. And it really, really helped me navigate particularly the shape of the excerpt that I presented so that an audience would really understand it.

[28:02] Joe Barros: Yeah. And also what he means is I was singing a song called Invincible, which I think is like the core of the show maybe. It was one of my favorite demos to listen to. And when I got the first draft of the excerpt, it was truncated. And one of the things I responded to was that, you know, I really wanted that to be there. And I even said, I think I said, I don't want to diminish your talent. It was a special song and I think it really landed.

[28:30] Kevin Wong: Absolutely. Well, Kevin, for those who can't be here, can you tell us about your show in your own words?

[28:36] Kevin Wong: Sure. So Magical Tofu Boys is a Gaysian Fantasia, as I call it, that follows three brothers, adult, teenager, and child who have magical abilities. Anything they imagine, see in their head, or hear, they can conjure into the outside world as images and sound, which gets them into a lot of trouble sometimes because it's a pretty hard and magical world out here.

[29:03] Joe Barros: And the phrase a tofu boy or a soft tofu or a soft tofu boy is something personal to you.

[29:04] Kevin Wong: It's very personal. Yeah, the show title and the metaphor comes from my grandmother, who may she rest in peace, who when I was about four or five pointed at me as I was twirling around on the floor singing and said to my mother, your child is soft tofu. The world is going to break him apart.

[29:16] Joe Barros: And here you are. The world has clearly not broken you. What did you experience? Did you learn something about your show?

[29:20] Kevin Wong: Yeah, I mean I banked a whole bunch of dramaturgical things that I'm going to incorporate into the next full draft of the show just from watching it in front of an audience. It's really its first time in front of an industry audience. And the other huge thing I got out of this week was the collegiality between me and the other writers. Writing is so insular so much of the time, and then the festival puts you all together at a very rich person's home and suddenly you look at each other and be like, oh, you're trying to do the same thing I am. And you sort of build these networks.

[29:47] Chris Dimond: This is a collection of the most popular Broadway TV shows of all time. We're going to be talking about the most popular Broadway TV shows of all time. This is a collection of the most popular Broadway TV shows of all time. It's for life. I've definitely noticed that collegiality between the writers as well. I think that's one of the coolest parts about being at NAMT is seeing the collective array of shows and seeing the writers connect with each other. If there was something that you really wanted the audience, those who can't be here to know, now would be a great time to share it.

[30:06] Chris Nee: I think in specificity is our universality. So, like, in leaning into my childhood and pulling all of these things out about my queerness and my Asian-ness, I think it actually speaks to a lot of people about their own experiences, even if you're not queer or Asian or magical, you actually are magical, probably. And I think that's what I hope people take, is that there's a bit of reawakening of everyone's eternal magic. The show is incredibly specific, but I would say it's totally universal, and the audience was very moved by it.

[30:32] Chris Dimond: I love, yesterday, I think you said you had written nine other musicals, but it took you those nine musicals to have the courage to write this one, is that right?

[30:41] Chris Nee: That is exactly what I said, yeah. Well, can you just tell us more about the music of the show?

[30:45] Chris Nee: It's a fresh score. Yeah, the music of the show is also a love letter to my upbringing, so there's 90s references to Disney, Mariah Carey's top hits, Sailor Moon theme songs, New Jack Swing. It's basically the music I grew up entrenched in that I'm basically doing a love letter to with the show. And I want to give a huge shout out to the Musical Stage Company with our new artistic director, Michael Rubinoff, who commissioned this piece. This piece really wouldn't have existed without them, and they've been here supporting it quite proudly. And for those of you who don't know, without Michael Rubinoff, there would be no Come From Away, the Broadway musical.

[31:20] Chris Dimond: Thank you for joining us, and congrats again on your presentation.

[31:21] Chris Nee: Thank you.

[31:22] Chris Dimond: Thanks for having me.

[31:23] Chris Nee: Thank you for your consultancy, as well. It's been a pleasure.

[31:24] Chris Dimond: Here's a demo of the song "Invincible," performed by Jonathan Tan from the musical Soft Magical Tofu Boys.

[31:30] ♪ Musical number: "Invincible" — performed by Jonathan Tan ♪

[34:36] Chris Dimond: Our next show is Particle. We were able to catch these writers right at the very end of the festival in the Green Room Lounge. I am here with the team from Particle. I so enjoyed your presentation. I love the score and I love the story. Could you please introduce yourselves so we all know who you are?

[34:55] Selda Sahin: Hi, I am Selda Sahin. I am the lyricist and co-book writer.

[34:57] Autumn Reeser: I'm Autumn Reeser and I'm the co-book writer.

[35:01] Derek Greger: I'm Derek Greger. I am the composer and co-book writer.

[35:05] Chris Dimond: Fantastic. Well, one thing we love to do for those who can't be here is we love to have the writers... Particle is a multi-dimensional coming-of-age story set in the world of elite gaming with a little bit of particle physics, quantum physics, scribbled in. One thing I really loved about your piece and this is not the first video game musical that I've seen, I hope it's okay to say, but the thing that I loved about this one that really set it apart was there was like a team aspect in the storytelling. We often don't see that team dynamic in that sort of sphere, so I'm curious what inspired you to write this show?

[35:44] Selda Sahin: So, Derek and I were working on a musical called Modern. There was a character in that show. Modern is about Amish kids on their home screen. And one thing we sort of wanted to include was the idea of gaming. It's the opposite of what Amish kids can do because they're talking to people from all over the world and they're using technology. So, when I had this character that was going to play in an eSports tournament, I went down this crazy YouTube rabbit hole and realized how huge the industry was. And we were in the middle of writing a song for this other show and the timeline was crazy. And I said to Derek, as soon as this is over, I want to talk about writing a show about eSports and gaming.

And I came in to direct a workshop of Modern out at USC and the three of us worked really, really well together and were having a lot of calls about Modern and they very graciously asked me to come in and create an original musical with them, which I was so honored by. So I brought in the thing that I bring in, which is like the hero's journey and depth psychology and that kind of storytelling and that added the mythic element that we have in this, which we have a video game called Interglow and it's all built around this concept of taking the tower and we have a lot of songs with dragons. The dragon metaphor is strong in this case.

[37:04] Derek Greger: Yay! Can I just say, as a director, that's the dream, that you come to direct a musical and the writers of that musical are like, we have another musical, can you help us write it? That's amazing.

[37:17] Selda Sahin: There's literally a dream come true. And for me, I was a musical theater major, but I had really stepped away from that world and was working more in film and television. So it was just like, here's a big theme at this festival for me about returning to my roots and understanding why all this is happening now. Because I started in musical theater when I was six. So I had to kick my face off like all of these people and I realized it and I was smart enough to get out.

[37:39] Derek Greger: Same here, same here. I can't kick my face. I'm a director now. But this is honestly so much more satisfying and it's even better because when showtime happens, I don't have to be warmed up. I get to sit in the audience and just enjoy the beautiful work we've created.

[37:57] Chris Dimond: Derek, can you talk a little bit about the title? Because I love that story. Did you hear my spiel today? I really want the listeners to hear it because it's a really great story.

[38:08] Derek Greger: Okay, then I'll do it. So we had the bones of our story where we knew about the dynamic between these siblings. We knew about family and a girl on a coming-of-age story and the backdrop of professional elite sports gaming. We had all those pieces in place. But when it came to actually start writing the material, I thought, as the composer, let's go into some real great electro-sitcom stuff. I tend to do that when I can. And I loved it. I have to start. It was incredible.

[38:42] Chris Dimond: Thank you very much. That means a lot. And I love that. I love all kinds of stuff. But when I get to do that in a musical, it's so delightful. And I did have...

[38:56] Derek Greger: Sorry, we have friends over here. We're at NAMM. There's community. As I sat down to start thinking about how I'm going to pull this off, just by pure happenstance, there's a sound on one of my keyboards called Particle. And it's a beautiful, sparkly synth. Angelic. Just absolutely glorious. And that became the backbone of a lot of the initial songs was this particular sound called Particle. And then, just reverse engineering, realized it led to the concept of physics. The concept of quantum entanglement and how that relates to our twins, who are the main two characters. So that was a happy accident. I like to think that when we're writing a musical, we go on a journey that's much bigger than what we set out to do in our minds at the starting point.

We have some basic things in mind, and then we follow where it goes. All those happy accidents, like I just explained, with that one particular sound. That's probably the most exciting part of writing musicals for me. And there's even a very powerful moment in the show involving the naming of Particle. I'm not going to spoil what that moment is, but it's really, really powerful. That also was a surprise as well, figuring out a lot of times it's just following the thread. Why am I getting this for this show, this download that I get? To me, it feels like cracking a code, like cracking a safe, until you hear it click.

[40:25] Chris Dimond: I like the song that you two wrote for it. I didn't know your names. Tell me about your week. I'd love to know what you learned, what you experienced, how did the show grow? Even from writers or producers, what was that experience like?

[40:41] Selda Sahin: The week has been amazing. It's fast and furious. So much time spent just learning music. Our actors, most of whom we didn't know, were just literally across the board incredible. I don't know how we got so lucky. It's everything. Their actual performances, their personalities, their vibes. They made everything fun, in a process that couldn't be stressful. Often seeing your work performed by a talented New York City cast can bring new colors and things to light. Literally, when we were watching it today, I have three things I want to change or notes that I'm excited about. And one of those is coming out of choices specifically that the actors made. She taught us something new about the characters. We continue to be inspired and to build.

[41:30] Chris Dimond: Tell me about the digital aspect of your show. I found it to be really interesting, really compelling, especially the idea of the game that's incorporated into the score and the team aspect in the gaming world. I'd love to hear about that.

[41:44] Selda Sahin: We didn't do this in the stage reading today, but there are portions of our musical that take place inside the video game. Production-wise, there is so much potential for creativity. You can do so much with a screen, so much with multiple screens, multiple layers of digital. You could have dancers on wires as the avatars. You could do this as a movie. There are so, so many options. That's what I'm most excited about for the next part of our development process. Really getting some creative minds and money to make the ideas possible.

[42:17] Chris Dimond: Amazing. What do you feel is the next best step for Particle? What's next for your show?

[42:23] Selda Sahin: We are so thrilled with where we are with this piece. We feel like we have a great understanding of it. We have a full version, two hours and 15 minutes or so, fully orchestrated. We've had so many hours of looking at this piece and getting insight. Having said that, we're looking for our first professional workshop production to really take this to the next level. We've had three phenomenal opportunities and now we're ready for that next step. We're really excited about some of the conversations we're already having here. NAMT is magical. This is just like for anybody who feels how I feel about what we need for this piece next, I don't think it could be a better idea.

[43:05] Chris Dimond: New York Theatre Barn has been so privileged to present the work of Derek and Selba in the past and even the work of Derek and Sam Kahn. Also recently, Orchids. What makes this collaboration unique?

[43:22] Derek Greger: Thank you, Joe. I love that question. I am very, very, very fortunate to have the relationship I have with Joe Barros and New York Theatre Barn through the years. You've been good to me with several collaborations. I love all these collaborations and I love our work with you each time. What's unique to me about this is first and foremost, having Autumn Reeser with us as a collaborator is a new partnership as writers for Selba and me to begin with. So it's inherently just a fresh set of eyes and instincts and coming from an entirely different, just so much success in this business. Google her. Just Google her. So much success in this business that is from a different corner from what Selba and I have done.

There's always just the nature of our collaboration and the heart of it. Every single piece is its own universe of collaboration. It always takes on a different energy. I hope that's not too bland of an answer for you but Selba's weirder every day. So you write Particle after you write Modern you're writing with a weirder woman. What?

[44:41] Frankie Dailey: And I'm so grateful that I can say this, is that I'm surrounded with people who I respect creatively, and as people, you included, Joe. It always feels like it's a lot of love in the room, and we're just there to have fun. It doesn't really feel like work. It's super fun for me to come from 25 years in film and television back to my roots in theater because I get to hold both. And the way that I see now is naturally cinematic, having developed in that world. My little kid heart is a theater heart, and so just being brought in and allowed to play in this world in this way. I wrote my first play when I was 12. It was not as good as this. I don't know if you knew that. It might have been. We should do it.

Maybe we'll make a musical out of it. But, you know, talking also about collaborating in film and television, Selda and I have a project that we're writing for Hallmark that's based in the country music world. And so these are just two of my favorite people. They're generous humans, big hearts, fun to play with creatively, fun to drink with, and write music with, and write story with, and listen to. Just listen to and be a fly on the wall of their creative process is such an honor and a deep learning for me. In my first musical, I wrote the music and lyrics to. It was called All Fall Down. And A.J. Shively, who was in our presentation today, sung two songs at a New York Theater Barn event in a basement, in the basement of the D Lounge.

That would have been 2010, maybe. A long time ago. And A.J.'s in this today. So cool. Well, if you're looking to develop your musical, NAMT, Frankie told me, is the official biggest musical theater festival of new musicals in the entire world. So you're in the right place. We loved your show. We truly wish you the very best in your next development step. Thank you for talking with us today.

[46:33] Guests: Thank you.

[46:34] Guests: Thank you.

[46:35] Guests: Thank you so much.

[46:36] Frankie Dailey: Here's a song, "Meet Your Heroes," from the musical Particle, performed by Gabe Violett.

[46:56] ♪ Musical number: "Meet Your Heroes" — performed by Gabe Violett ♪

[49:16] Frankie Dailey: Before we sign off for this week's Part 1 coverage of the NAMT Festival, we have one more surprise for you. We ran into Sonya Hayden and Matthew Lowy, who are participants in the College Road Trip performances at the NAMT Festival that showcase new musicals from colleges and universities. Their show, Taking Off, was recently developed at Michigan State University and was a part of these performances. Alright, I am joined now by Sonya Hayden and Matthew Lowy. You two just had your work featured in the College Road Trip. Tell us about your experience working at Michigan State University, bringing your show here, and what that was like for you.

[49:49] Sonya Hayden: Yes, we had a fantastic time. Our show was called Taking Off and we were down at Michigan State University just in September. We were there for two weeks workshopping the show. We actually got to do a staged workshop, so much more staging than we ever dreamed of. And there's a lot of physical comedy in the show, so it was really particularly valuable to see it in a more staged form and get to see really the pacing of the show with all that.

[50:11] Frankie Dailey: Yeah, well tell us about your show.

[50:13] Matthew Lowy: Sure, so the show is called Taking Off. I wrote the book and lyrics, Matt wrote the music. It's set on a plane in the early 1960s and it follows a first-time stewardess, Amelia Dareheart, who has to navigate a wacky group of passengers and vans on an international flight from New York City to Paris. And I would say thematically, it's about the push and pull between freedom and societal limitations, especially for women in the era of second-wave feminism.

[50:35] Sonya Hayden: That's very well said.

[50:37] Matthew Lowy: Oh thank you, I practiced elevator pants.

[50:40] Frankie Dailey: So what was your experience like, first off, working at Michigan State and then bringing that to NAMT and that kind of cross-pollination?

[50:49] Sonya Hayden: We had a great experience working at Michigan State. We felt very supported by the program. The program director, Adam, was also directing our workshop. The whole team there was great and the students were extremely invested and supportive and super down to play and experiment. We had a really great time and learned a lot about the show thanks to all of them. And yeah, we were delighted to shortly after that find out that we could be performing a song from it at NAMT on behalf of Michigan State and their program.

[51:19] Matthew Lowy: So yeah, it's been fun to bring in a singer. We had the wonderful Sarah Jean Ford sing a song for us called "Ready for the World."

[51:28] Frankie Dailey: Fantastic. Well, I met Adam this week at the NAMT conference. My esteemed colleague, Joe Barrows, has directed at Michigan State University, directed a show called For Tonight, which has been developed by New York Theatre Barn and our New Work series, and by producer Blair Russell. Well, thanks so much for telling us about the College Road Trip. That's such a cool program. They featured friends of ours that we talked about from Syracuse University and Florida State University. But tell us about your week at NAMT. How was that for you? Did you see shows you loved? What stood out for you?

[51:57] Sonya Hayden: We had a fantastic time. I was here both days and saw a whole bunch of shows. It's so, I mean, it's hard to pick a favorite because they were all great, and that was such a joyful, wonderful experience alongside all these other fantastic writers and shows.

[52:09] Matthew Lowy: Safe travels. I was only here today, but I got to see Finn as well, which was beautiful, and we've been reading and hearing so much about it for the last year, so it was cool to actually see the piece. And it lived up to the hype, if I have to say. It really did live up to the hype. It was so funny and so charming. And really well written. And also well abbreviated. They abbreviated that show in a very charming way by just saying, in a scene that we skipped, we learned that. Yeah, it was very funny. You didn't really feel like you lost anything. That was a highlight for me.

[52:45] Sonya Hayden: Yes, and shout out to both of our, we have a mentor, Meg Zeroulis, to both of us who was the music director of that as well.

[52:51] Frankie Dailey: So how did you meet? How did you come to collaborate? Is this your first collaboration?

[52:57] Matthew Lowy: We met, a classic tale, in the BMI Musical Theater Workshop. Shout out, BMI! We met some BMIers. We met up with some BMIers earlier. Jeannie McGuire, who I worked with. And Adam Mathias. Yes, all the BMI folks. We're around at the NAMT Festival. Certainly, we've had many fun reunions running into them. We were partnered together in year one of BMI for an assignment to write a charm song from the movie The Santa Clause. So we wrote a song with a bunch of elves and performed it, did a rewrite. So that was our first time actually working together.

[53:32] Sonya Hayden: And then the summer after our first year, we got back together.

[53:34] Matthew Lowy: Yeah, we came back together with the wonderful third grader, Rachel Skor, also from the workshop, to write a 20-minute show that was the very seed of this now full-length show based on it in the Across the Crowded Room program at the Public Library for the Performing Arts. So yeah, that was how this whole classic comedy got started. And yeah, it's grown into a, we've now written this full-length thing based on it, and it's grown into a whole other thing now.

[54:02] Sonya Hayden: Well, our friends Janine McGuire and Ari Lonsimon will be so pleased. They're such a great songwriting duo. They've created another great songwriting duo, and congratulations on your presentation.

[54:12] Matthew Lowy: Thank you so much!

[54:14] Frankie Dailey: Here's a song, "Ready for the World," from Taking Off, performed by Sonya Hayden.

[54:18] ♪ Musical number: "Ready for the World" — performed by Sonya Hayden ♪

[59:10] Frankie Dailey: Thanks for joining us on New York Theatre Barn's Backstage Pass, hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs. Join us next time to hear more musicals featured at NAMT's 37th Annual Festival of New Musicals. Get your backstage pass.