This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Joe Barros: Experience the musicals of tomorrow today. Get a glimpse inside the blueprint of an original musical being developed in real time with New York Theatre Barn's podcast, The Musicals Of Tomorrow. I'm Joe Barros. And I'm Jen Sandler. And we're the hosts of The Musicals Of Tomorrow. As the Artistic Director and Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn, we make space to speak in community with musical theatre writers and their creative teams. Lifting up songs from original culture-shifting musicals in development and introducing them to a global audience has become a major part of New York Theatre Barn's evolving story. Each original musical's intention, content, and journey are unique and extraordinary to the storytellers who create them.

We believe that there is no formula for musical theatre except authenticity. We recently spoke with the creators of On This Side Of The World, Paulo K Tiról, and Noam Shapiro, and The Village Of Vale, written by John McGrew, Jonathan Karpinos, and Joseph Varca. Our first musical is On This Side Of The World, which has music and lyrics by Paulo K Tiról, and is developed and directed by Noam Shapiro. Stories of overseas workers, young lovers, and gossipy church ladies. Snapshots of undocumented immigrants, millennial princesses, and first-generation Americans. Six actors give voice to Filipino immigrants navigating old lives and new beginnings, as a one-way ticket sends them on a journey 8,000 miles from home. And now, here's our conversation with the creators of On This Side Of The World, Paulo K Tiról, and Noam Shapiro.

[2:13] Paulo K Tiról: Hey Jen, hey Joe, thank you for having us.

[2:18] Jen Sandler: Of course. We're so glad you're both here. Paulo, you were born and raised in Manila, Philippines.

[2:24] Paulo K Tiról: That's right. Beautiful country that I was in about a year and a half ago. Hello to my friends Luna and Jaime over there. Your other projects include CALD and Starro. You were a Dramatist Guild Foundation Fellow, and an artist-in-residence of Axis Theater, along with Noam. Your work has been developed and presented at Barrington Stage, Crossroads Theater Company, and Ma-Yi Theater Company.

[2:50] Joe Barros: And I just want to say, CALD actually had development at New York Theater Barn.

[2:54] Paulo K Tiról: It did. It was part of the Choreography Lab two years ago.

[2:59] Joe Barros: Noam, you are a New York-based director and the producing art director of Three Hairs. You're a winner of Opera America's Robert L. B. Tobin Director-Designer Prize, a recipient of the SDC Foundation's 2020 Harold Prince Kurt Weill Directing Fellowship, an alumnus of the Manhattan Theater Club Directing Fellowship, a member of the Lincoln Center Director's Lab, and a former Drama League artist-in-residence. So Paulo and Noam, how did the two of you come to collaborate together, and what inspired you to tell a story about Filipino immigrants?

[3:33] Paulo K Tiról: Let's start with the second half of that question because it comes first. So I started writing On This Side Of The World when I was a first year in the NYU Graduate Musical Theater Writing Program. So this was in 2013. There's one class there where you get to be both a composer and a lyricist, because otherwise you have to choose one or the other. And in that class, the assignment is to choose a community that will inspire a song cycle that you'll then work on for the next two years. I chose Filipino immigrants in the United States because, number one, I'm one of them. Number two, I had a whole bunch of friends whose stories I could draw on to inspire other songs, other material in the piece.

And also because at that time, I didn't know of any other Filipino American or Filipino immigrant musical theater writers. I mean, there are now. I've met Fabian Obispo, J. O'Connor Navarro, Justin Huertas. But yeah, at the time, I thought I was the only one. So I was excited to tell these stories. And for the second half of the question, I'll let Noam answer that.

[4:37] Noam Shapiro: Yeah, so I was looking to meet incredible new artists working in the musical theater space. And I went to Musical Theater Factory's POC Roundtable event at Joe's Pub in 2018. I almost wasn't going to go. It was like a rainy night and I went downtown and I just heard Paulo present an incredible song called Light Up the Home about two overseas foreign workers, women who leave their children and their families in the Philippines to go care for elderly individuals or kids and families in the United States and about their longing for their family at home while they have to care for other people's families. And I was just absolutely blown away. And I thought, wow, you know, who is this guy? And why haven't I heard about him before?

And I went home that night and I cold emailed Paulo and I said, I need to hear more of your music. Please tell me what you're working on. So we met like a week later and I asked Paulo about these stories. And he just told me the inspiration. And I said to him, you know, surely you've been showing this to people and presenting it. And he said, well, no, not really. You know, people weren't sure there would be an audience for these stories. And I said, absolutely. I think that there totally is an audience. These are incredible American stories, international stories. And so we started working together.

[6:07] Joe Barros: So we're going to keep talking development, but we want to bring on a class member that has been with your show since the beginning. We have Belinda Allyn with us.

[6:16] Belinda Allyn: Hi, thanks for having me.

[6:19] Joe Barros: Belinda, thanks so much for joining us. You are in one of my favorite Broadway shows, Allegiance. And I got to show your song to my students this past week and they were hysterical. They were singing it as they walked out of class.

[6:37] Belinda Allyn: I love that.

[6:39] Joe Barros: So tell us a little bit about your journey with the show.

[6:43] Belinda Allyn: So Paulo emailed me, I guess. What is it now? Almost three years ago. Gosh, that's crazy. We'll say two years ago because last year didn't count. So two years ago he emailed me and he asked me if I was interested in doing a reading of his piece. And I never, ever get to work on new pieces for whatever reason. I just haven't had that opportunity. And so the minute I saw the email, I jumped on it, not knowing anything about the piece, other than that it happened to be a Filipino story. And that was a bonus for me. And I worked on the piece. Was it at the beginning of your residency at Axis?

[7:31] Paulo K Tiról: It was a culmination of our residency. So six months and then it was the end. And so we did a workshop of it then and for a reading, I suppose. I was sick of terminology wrong, but it was so much fun. And I was unavailable to do the next production of it. And so Paulo and Mel reached out about a month or so ago. I was super giddy and excited to revisit this piece, especially this particular song. It was so much fun to work on back three years ago, and it was even more fun bringing it back into play.

[8:13] Joe Barros: Awesome. Well, why don't we check out this first song and then we'll talk a little bit more about the show's development.

[8:19] Belinda Allyn: So let's help you guys set it up.

[8:22] Paulo K Tiról: Sure. I don't want to give away spoilers, but let's just give this context. The context is that the cost of labor is much, much lower in the Philippines than it is here. Let's start by saying that. So a lot of families and not even necessarily like the rich or not even the upper class, even the middle class, a lot of them have like household help. And one of the forms of this household help is what's called a yaya. And these are like basically nannies or governesses. But with some families, the yaya stays with a child until he or she gets older and often transforms from a governess role into a lady in waiting kind of role. And that's what inspired this first song. It comes in the second act of the show. It comes after a very sad song. I should say that. And it's inspired by some people I actually know.

[9:25] Joe Barros: Wow. So this is Yaya sung by Belinda.

[9:46] ♪ Musical number: "Yaya" — performed by Belinda Allyn ♪

[13:07] ♪ Musical number: "Maybe Today" — performed by Mark DeLaCruz ♪

[20:11] Or How About My Bed? Such A Change From The Floor. I've Suffered Three Whole Weeks. I Can't Take Much More.

[20:30] Belinda Allyn: My gosh, what a great pleasure working with you on the song.

[20:34] Paulo K Tiról: Thank you. I had too much fun recording it. I probably sang through it like 20 more times than necessary because it's just so much fun. Once you get going, you can't stop.

[20:44] Noam Shapiro: One of the exciting things about the show is it really tries to be a showcase of its performers. So there are six actors and each track has comedic songs, dramatic songs. The structure of the show is kind of in three parts.

[20:59] Paulo K Tiról: The first part, we need a bunch of characters who are new to America. They're infatuated with it. They're so excited and falling in love. The second part is really coming to terms with what it means to live overseas and belonging and some of the challenges.

[21:12] Noam Shapiro: And then the third part is really falling into kind of a longer term love affair with living in the United States and coming to peace with the joys and the challenges that come with being an immigrant.

[21:27] Paulo K Tiról: With the support of AXIS Theatre and the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council, we were able to expand Pella's original collection of eight songs into 20 songs.

[21:39] Noam Shapiro: And we worked for about a year to develop the kind of overall structure. And now what's been so great over kind of digital platforms is the chance to go back and really finesse the song.

[21:53] Paulo K Tiról: So we took this opportunity with New York Theatre Barn to change some of the lyrics in Yaya and the next song that you'll see has gone through a full revision where we kind of weren't sure. We had four different versions of it. And finally, during this process, we were able to get to the version that you'll see tonight.

[22:07] Noam Shapiro: And it's been amazing to see as we've brought in performers like Belinda and Mark DeLaCruz, how they bring their personal stories and their lived experiences to these songs.

[22:19] Paulo K Tiról: And what are your aspirations for the show after this pandemic? I think we don't see a lot of shows about Asian immigrants in this way, and we need to see the story. And I hope we see it in a bigger medium.

[22:32] Noam Shapiro: I hope so, too. Our hope after the pandemic, we would love to. I mean, we've been very lucky to have had the opportunities that we had.

[22:43] Paulo K Tiról: You mentioned the Prospect Theatre Company Ignite concert series, which was like February 2020, just a month before things closed down at the workshop production at AXIS Theatre.

[22:57] Noam Shapiro: And being in the NAMT Festival last year was pretty mind-blowing. It had been a longtime dream. I didn't think it would happen. It was literally a dream come true.

[23:10] Paulo K Tiról: The responses we've gotten after NAMT have been exciting. And our aspiration really is to bring the show, well, first of all, to cities with large Filipino populations, the West Coast, Chicago, Texas, Nevada, Hawaii, Toronto.

[23:25] Noam Shapiro: But also there are, and one thing I've loved is that even theatres which are not necessarily categorically Asian-American theatre companies or theatres which are not in cities that have large Filipino populations, they've also been excited about the stories.

[23:41] Paulo K Tiról: And my goal from the outset was to write Filipino stories in a way that would speak to a broader audience. And it's been very exciting.

[23:53] Noam Shapiro: So if there are theatres that are interested in putting new communities, new stories, new characters on stage, I would love that as well.

[24:05] Paulo K Tiról: But I think the key word here is, Noam, I just wanted to say the key word here is American. And I think Asian-American stories are American stories. I just wanted to say.

[24:17] Noam Shapiro: And you set the bar high with NAMT, you know, Joe, and I say to you all the time when we saw that part where everyone leaned back, we were like, oh, my God, and we were crying and called each other.

[24:31] Paulo K Tiról: You know, to have that be the beginning of the NAMT Festival, we were like, what else is there going to be now?

[24:43] Noam Shapiro: I felt so guilty putting my videos on Instagram and not like watching intently, but I needed people to know.

[24:56] Paulo K Tiról: Thank you. I remember that. I was watching your Instagram feed and I'm like, oh, wow, Joe really likes this stuff.

[25:09] Noam Shapiro: So what is the second song we're going to see tonight?

[25:13] Paulo K Tiról: So the second song is inspired by the presence of so many undocumented individuals who live in this country who come either for political reasons or economic reasons and choose to stay here.

[25:28] Noam Shapiro: And the conundrum that they find themselves in, especially as there's no clear pathway towards citizenship right now.

[25:39] Paulo K Tiról: And it's been amazing over the last three years to see how this song really has evolved as the conversation about immigration has changed from the last administration to now.

[25:54] Noam Shapiro: So this song is about the interior life of someone who is just trying to get by, not sure if today will be his last day in the United States or if he'll be lucky and have another day.

[26:09] Paulo K Tiról: And this is Mark Dela Cruz singing, who has been a part of most of your development, right?

[26:15] Noam Shapiro: You know, we wanted to work with Mark for a really long time.

[26:20] Paulo K Tiról: And all of a sudden, this guy ended up in Hamilton and we were like, wow, we're never going to have a chance to see him.

[26:27] Noam Shapiro: And he covers like every single track in the show.

[26:31] Paulo K Tiról: So if there's someone out one night, like Mark's going to be in the show.

[26:36] Noam Shapiro: And the blessing of this pandemic, you mentioned, you know, Vinnie Rodriguez. We've been able to work with actors who have wanted to work on this project for so long and suddenly are able to do so.

[26:29] Teresa Attridge: And now here's our conversation with the writers of The Village of Vale, John McGrew, Jonathan Karpinos, and Joseph Varca.

[26:36] Pauls Macs: Wow, everybody.

[26:39] John McGrew: Yeah, it's the J party. Hey, Jays.

[26:46] Joseph Varca: We've got a Jane backstage.

[26:51] John McGrew: Lisa's gonna mess it all up. We love you, Lisa.

[26:54] Pauls Macs: But you know, so it's worth it.

[26:57] Pauls Macs: So welcome, everybody. John, you're a composer, singer, and multi-instrumentalist based in California. Your other musicals include an adaptation of Cupid and Psyche with Jonathan Karpinos, and Apollo runs Here Be Dragons. You've collaborated with dance-based projects Food for Thought, Jack Ferber, Zen Dance Company, Fisher Price, Mattel, Nickelodeon, amongst others. Jonathan, you're a playwright based in New York, and your work includes Lost Letters, which recently premiered at Bloomington Playwrights Project. You're also the co-author of two musicals for young actors, Cupid and Psyche with John McGrew, and The Average Achievers, which received its New York premiere at Hunter College High School.

Joseph, you are a filmmaker, actor, writer, and multi-hyphenate like John. You produced and performed in the feature film, Lapsus, which was an official selection in narrative competition at South by Southwest 2020, and won the jury prize at the Bucheon International Fantastic Film Festival in South Korea. I saw the trailer of it today, which is really, really outstanding. The film was also recently nominated. We got to go on because it's worth it. The film was nominated for an Independent Spirit Award for Best First Screenplay and was acquired by Film Movement for theatrical release in 2021. So congratulations. And if that wasn't enough, you're also an actor and made your Broadway debut in the network starring Bryan Cranston.

[28:36] Joseph Varca: I saw that standing room only. It was great.

[28:39] John McGrew: Amazing.

[28:40] Joseph Varca: My little brother is a massive Bryan Cranston fan. So it was the best.

[28:44] John McGrew: He's the best. He's such a good guy.

[28:46] Joseph Varca: I'm jealous that you can say he's the best to know from experience. You actually have the experience to say he's the best. I can only imagine he's the best.

[28:55] John McGrew: He's a really nice guy. He's a really good guy.

[28:56] Pauls Macs: Quite a prolific director as well on that production. So Joe, John, and Jonathan, what was the impetus for your collaboration? And why an epic, dark, fractured, driven fable?

[29:07] Jonathan Karpinos: Yeah, that's a good question. So when I was living in New York City, I was lucky enough to live next to the park, Prospect Park. And I spent a lot of hours kind of wandering through with no music in my headphones, you know, just kind of like zoning out and looking up into the trees because I grew up, you know, in the woods in Ohio. And I found a lot of peace there. And it dawned on me one day on a walk that I was missing the old fairy tale, like the kind of like the darker fairy tales that really kind of catch you by surprise. And they show like this dark beauty that I think has been missing in modern day fairy tales. And I thought finally back to sitting on my grandparents couch and listening to Peter and the Wolf and reading these storybook records, like opening the record sitting on their, you know, the velvet couch and like, and reading through as I was listening to Peter and the Wolf.

And I thought, you know, that experience I want to recreate. And so I started to like, you know, ruminate on this, this idea of this village. And I imagined creating a storybook record. And I went over to someone at the Invisible Dog in Brooklyn, Lucien, who runs the Invisible Dog. And I mentioned, you know, I want to turn this space into this forest with, you know, like an installation art piece with music playing and everything and then pair it with this storybook record. And so I, and he then in that conversation was like, Okay, cool. In nine months, you can have two weeks in my space. And I was not prepared for that. But I, you know, I hopped on my bike. And I said, Okay, this is going to happen.

This is happening now. So I immediately emailed Tara Giordano, who's a fantastic actress. I emailed Jonathan and Joe and, and we started collaborating on this, this book, we started with this storybook, you know.

[31:13] Jonathan Karpinos: Jonathan, Joe, how did you get involved past that point?

[31:17] John McGrew: Yeah, so early on, we had some great, exciting conversations with John. And just to, you know, reiterate what he said, the show did not start only as a show, like we didn't say this is going to be a musical, it was going to be a whole bunch of things. And, and a theater piece was one of them. But my first role involvement creatively was trying to write like short story versions of the stories that John had started to conceive. And a lot of long hours late at night with a new baby trying, trying to, you know, sort of craft into a short story form these, these ideas that we had, we had, we spent a lot of time just talking to God, like so many afternoons, just shooting, world building, world building, world.

[31:59] Joseph Varca: Yeah, I think we, yeah, just so much time went into kind of trying to imagine like the sights and smells and landscape, and history of the place where all this was taking place. And that was a really looking back on it, not just fun, but I think important part of the process. So yeah, Joe, go Hugo.

[32:17] Joseph Varca: Yeah, and then, and then we, the space was coming up, the show was coming up. So the aim was to try to turn all of this work, all of this writing into a show of some sort. And, and then nested inside this immersive world that we created, really, like just very DIY. I mean, fabric and lots of foil and trying to show this, this picture is actually the night before we opened this first iteration of it. And that is Joe about to make a puppet out of foam. And this was like at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, we were, we were running on fumes. And it was very DIY.

[32:57] John McGrew: Yeah. And that was, I wouldn't change anything about that process. It was incredibly fun and super challenging. I mean, I'd adapted things before, but I'd never worked on a musical. And I think initially, it was really a play with music. And as we continued to develop it, we realized, oh, wait, actually, maybe this is more a musical. And it just took a great deal of searching and development, which we luckily have had some success with.

[33:27] Jonathan Karpinos: And we've had some incredible organizations and institutions support us over the years.

[33:32] Pauls Macs: So here to talk more about the development of the show, we have your amazing director, Lisa Roth, and we have your amazing producer, the amazing Jane Dubin. Hi, everyone.

[33:43] Lisa Rothe: Hey!

[33:45] Jane Dubin: Thanks for joining us.

[33:47] Pauls Macs: Hi to the J team. Lisa and Jane, how did you become involved with the show and why the show?

[33:57] Jane Dubin: Well, I was invited to come see a production at Lincoln Center by my colleague, Aaron Craig, my fellow producer. And I walked into this world. Yay, Aaron! It was raining outside. It was just like a miserable day. And I walked into this theater, and I was seeing a matinee for students. So I was not excited, totally. But as soon as the music started, I got completely lost in another world. And I'm not really sure what it was about the story, because it just like enveloped me. And not only me, but except for three young women behind me who were texting and chatting the whole time, the rest of the audience was just taken. They laughed when they were supposed to. They were quiet when they were supposed to.

They cheered when they were supposed to. And when I left there, I called Aaron. I said, I got to meet these guys. I want to know what's behind this. What motivated them? What's the story? And we got together, and I was so impressed by how much they listened, how much story there was. I mean, they really had worked on the story, and how much they wanted to make the story better. And I thought, well, as a producer, and a creative producer at that, it's like, I hit the motherlode. I have three young, like the three dads.

[35:32] John McGrew: The three young dads.

[35:34] Jane Dubin: The dads.

[35:37] Jane Dubin: The dads who worked over Google Docs in the middle of the night.

[35:43] Jane Dubin: And we went up to Bethany Arts Community in Westchester, which is a residency. Applications are now open, by the way. And we spent about four or five days up there and really gelled, and that sort of took off. And then Joe said, you know, I'd really like to bring in a director. Joe had been directing to this point, and really loved having the woman's perspective on the show. And it took me all of three seconds to say, I know just the person. And that was my dear friend, Lisa Rothe.

[36:21] Lisa Rothe: So for some reason, she wanted to get involved. What was your motivation?

[36:27] Lisa Rothe: Thank you.

[36:29] Jane Dubin: Thank you, Jane.

[36:31] Lisa Rothe: Well, first of all, I wanted to get involved because you were involved. So let's start there. And then meeting John, Jonathan, and Joe was really wonderful. But you had sent me some music initially. You just said, hey, there's this musical. I really love it. What are your thoughts on it? And I listened to it, and I was so struck by the world. And I was so struck by the music and the world that had been created. And I was like, okay, great. I'd love to meet them. And I think the thing that really struck me about it was I was so drawn to this story of a young woman who has lost her whole family in a pretty tragic way. And she's experiencing some trauma. And on her healing journey, she ends up meeting a group of young people who initially become her chosen adopted family.

And she explores her healing journey by connecting with her history, but also specifically with nature. And then specifically in her also communication with trees and with nature. And I was really interested in the healing journey through nature and through this communication with trees. And so I was very struck by that. And so we hung out and started spending time together. And then also last year, before all this hit, I was the director of new works at Kansas City Repertory Theater. And talked to Jane about the possibility of bringing this there to just get it on its feet and just to hear it and just see what was there. And so it was really extraordinary. And it was beautiful. It's really just been great working with them. I just wanted to say that.

[38:10] Jonathan Karpinos: I remember we sat at your dining room table. And they went on for like four hours.

[38:14] Joseph Varca: 200 characters.

[38:16] Jonathan Karpinos: With backstory.

[38:18] John McGrew: It's like a Tolkien story.

[38:20] Jonathan Karpinos: It's kind of extraordinary.

[38:22] John McGrew: This musical could go on for years.

[38:24] Pauls Macs: So.

[38:26] Joseph Varca: We found a lot of joy in building the world. And sometimes we just decided, hey, no one's ever going to know this. But let's figure out the entirety of this universe.

[38:36] John McGrew: Yeah.

[38:38] Joseph Varca: And then right after Kansas City, we went to Goodspeed for the writers residency. And then the world stopped. And rather than wait until the world reopened, what we've been doing in the meantime is adapting the play to radio. And it's not as easy as it sounds because it was really rewriting. But also this 85 page backstory came into the play. And there's all these. It could run for years. Because there's so much story. And that's been really fun. And also helped to deepen the story. And I think the surface story.

[39:19] Noam Shapiro:

[39:49] Jonathan Karpinos:

[39:59] Joseph Varca:

[40:09] Noam Shapiro:

[40:19] Jonathan Karpinos:

[40:29] Joseph Varca:

[40:39] Noam Shapiro:

[40:49] Jonathan Karpinos:

[40:59] Joseph Varca:

[41:09] Noam Shapiro:

[41:19] Jonathan Karpinos:

[41:29] Joseph Varca:

[41:39] Noam Shapiro:

[41:49] ♪ Musical number: "Oh, This Time Tomorrow" — performed by Belinda Allyn, Jonathan Karpinos, and Joseph Varca ♪

[45:20] Jonathan Karpinos: I thought you were going to modulate off the page.

[45:25] Noam Shapiro: I tell you, it was a tricky song. It took a minute for me to figure out how to really drive that one up into the next key.

[45:36] Jonathan Karpinos: Yeah, so the second song you'll hear is called Endlessly Spiraling. It comes from the third part of the show, kind of right in the middle of the show. This part is called The Island by the Falls. The story of The Island by the Falls follows the village's healer, whose name is Larissa. And at the beginning, we see her as a girl and then as a young woman and as an adult. And at this point in her life, she gets married. Her husband gets sick with an illness that she doesn't understand and can't cure. And he passes away, leaving her with their infant son. And in this moment, she's just really immersed in her grief. You may hear some background. You'll see Lauren Elder again. Are you having fun giving the side effects of an infant?

[46:21] John McGrew: Yeah. You know, if I may, John, I think maybe it's important also just to say that, so this is the moment when he passes away. And one of the ideas of The Island by the Falls is that when you light a tree on fire on this island, the tree burns down and the dead come back to life. And so she's being called to this island by these trees. And you're going to now see Lauren playing Carolyn. Sorry, Larissa now, so a different character. And so she'll be singing mourning her husband. And then when I come in, we both use the villagers as people who sing, but also the trees in their ethereal goodness will be calling to her. And so there's going to be an element within the production of these other voices that a little bit of the siren call, right? They call to her in a very fairytale eerie way. So here is John and Lauren again, singing Endlessly Spiraling.

[47:23] ♪ Musical number: "Endlessly Spiraling" — performed by Lauren Elder and John McGrew ♪

[49:39] Noam Shapiro: It's Women's History Month right now, and you have both a director and a producer leading your team. Why, John, Jonathan, and Joe, do you think it's important to have women at the helm and not even just celebrate them this month, celebrate them always?

[49:52] Jonathan Karpinos: It's a great question, and obviously it's super important to us. I mean, I think, you know, something that happens when you're making things is that you end up sort of building your own echo chamber, and you're only listening to a limited number of voices. And you're only listening to a limited number of perspectives. And I think for us it's always been about trying to do the opposite of that. So this process has always been collaborative. And, you know, we're making a world up, you know, out of nothing, and yet it reflects our own world in many ways. And I think to do that well, I think you have to bring in as many perspectives, multitudes of perspectives and experiences to help fill that out.

And Jane and Lisa and Erin have been amazing, just incredible collaborators. And their spirit and generosity and support have just lifted up this show. And their brilliant ideas have just given us so much in these last few years. I think we just feel lucky to hang out with them. And, you know, I think we all believe that what we make and what we're making is important. But I think what's even more important is how we make it and who we make it with.

[51:13] Joseph Varca: Couldn't say any better.

[51:15] Noam Shapiro: Well said. Well said. That's why I love these guys.

[51:19] Jonathan Karpinos: And I think, you know, the thing is, the more you talk about the story, as I was saying before, the more layers there are. And you can just keep peeling them away, peeling them away, and then they keep putting more on. It just learns something every time we talk. It's really exciting.

[51:35] John McGrew: The deeper the roots, right? The deeper the roots.

[51:37] Joseph Varca: The deeper the roots, right.

[51:39] Noam Shapiro: The more you water it, the deeper the roots.

[51:41] Jonathan Karpinos: Yeah, the more you water it, the deeper the roots.

[51:43] Joseph Varca: I think I saw somewhere you need a gardener and you need a flower. People can't be both. You have to have both to make something happen.

[51:52] Noam Shapiro: Indeed.

[51:53] Jonathan Karpinos: Preach.

[51:54] John McGrew: Totally.

[51:55] Noam Shapiro: Well, thank you all. John, Jonathan, Joe, Jane, and Lisa. Have a wonderful night.

[52:00] Jonathan Karpinos: Thank you so much.

[52:02] Joseph Varca: Thank you.

[52:03] Noam Shapiro: We can't wait to see you more from the Village of Vale.

[52:05] Jonathan Karpinos: Thanks a lot.

[52:06] Joseph Varca: Thank you, Jen.

[52:07] Noam Shapiro: Thank you, Joe.

[52:08] Jonathan Karpinos: Thank you.

[52:09] Joseph Varca: This was great.

[52:10] Noam Shapiro: Thank you.

[52:11] Jonathan Karpinos: Thank you.

[52:12] Joseph Varca: Thank you.

[52:13] Noam Shapiro: Join us next time for more of the musicals of tomorrow.