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[0:00] Douglas Lyons: Welcome back to part two of our conversation with Douglas Lyons about this electrifying new musical. You'll hear two more songs from the show and we'll learn more about its journey from development to two off-Broadway productions. When young Nashville musician Ace Baker discovers that his long-lost rock star grandfather is still alive, his world shifts forever. Now confronted with buried memories, family secrets, and strained relationships, Ace must find his way and rediscover his voice. A coming of age like no other, Beau the Musical blends an immersive pop-country score with a story of love, family, and redemption. Listen all the way to the end for a game where we decide who would be our musical theater backing band.

[2:22] Douglas Lyons: There was a woman who came with her daughter earlier in the run. She had also covered one of the songs on TikTok and I retweeted them. She came to closing with her mother, her father, her cousin, her daughter. She brought the whole family. And that to me is so, you know, it's a queer story at the center, but it's a universal story for anyone who's had a family. You know, to talk about some of the women in the show, Raven, who is a single mother, has gotten to a point where she is looking for love. And part of the contention between the two of them is that he never knew his father. You know, his father walked out on Raven when she was six months pregnant. Because of things that are revealed in the musical, he has sort of ostracized herself from her father, her side of the family.

She's lost her mother. And so when Ace is born, he grows up not having a father and being told that all of his grandparents and relatives are not there. So when this phone call comes that his grandfather, Raven's father, is still alive, it really implodes their relationship. And she has to reckon with the reality that she can't lie to him anymore. And now he's on this journey asking questions of why. He's been around for 12 years and you knew he wasn't dead. Why? And the audience, you know, through theatricality, learns why. But it's also about healing and watching this very strong woman who wants to also be loved, find out a way to love her son and allow him to love a man that she no longer loves. So it's a really intricate and difficult journey. But that's sometimes what life is and family is.

[4:38] Douglas Lyons: Yeah, I think what you said is very accurate. That's another thing that's fascinating about the story is the family dynamics at play. I don't want to get necessarily too spoilery in here. But you're right. Ace has a very complicated relationship with his mother, and then suddenly has a brand new relationship with his grandfather who he thought was dead, which only complicates the relationship between him and his mother further. And then also, there's the complicated relationship between grandfather and daughter, because families are complicated. I think many of us can relate to that. And simultaneously, I imagine anyone who goes to see the show will probably be thinking about that one family member in their life, who really taught them something about themselves, or maybe even taught them how to accept themselves.

I was definitely thinking about my grandmother as I was watching the show. But you know, whether it's an uncle or an aunt, or a great grandparent, someone often will step in to play a meaningful part in a young person's life. And I think that is told successfully in the show.

[6:02] Douglas Lyons: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, to have a bow is to have a person who cared about you when you thought no one did. That is what bow represents. And I think we get that from all different places, you know, be it a teacher, a family member, an extended family member, a coach, whatever. You know, maybe, I'd like to zero in just a little bit more or focus in a little bit more on the relationship between Ace and Bo. So Ace learns that, you know, he's got this grandfather who's suddenly alive, he goes to see him in the hospital. But tell me about fleshing out that relationship. You said at the start, like, I'm not sure where this is going. You know, you've got these two people, this grandfather, and this kiddo who is in need of help, you know, he needs someone to care about him. How did you go about shaping that relationship?

[7:20] Douglas Lyons: Great. So in retrospect, and I have these like five principles, four of which I borrowed from another writer, which is whose story is it? What do they want? What's the obstacle keeping them from getting what they want? How do they overcome said obstacle? And then what is the cathartic moment for that character once they have gotten or have not gotten what they want? And that cathartic moment for the audience as well, or we share in sort of a lesson together. And so in that formula, it's about Ace Baker. He wants a father. He wants to know who his father is, his lineage. When he finds out, the obstacle becomes a little bit his mother. It has been his obstacle. He didn't know it. And then he overcomes it by begging her to go spend these, you know, summers with her father, his grandfather, who he doesn't really know.

So when he first gets there, he sort of realizes this is before he discovers the guitar in the attic. He doesn't, there's no kids there. There's nothing to do. He becomes very bored. He's just, you know, going to get peanuts and beers for this guy and watching reruns and things. And then he finds this guitar that is sitting in his attic and he brings it downstairs and says, you know, is this the one? You know, part of the other cool thing is there's a moment where Bo early on in the musical, you see him in the seventies with his band, The Bellbottoms. You learn then that he was a musician. So when Ace in that first summer finds the guitar and, you know, he's like, what is this? Bo explains its name, Rosetta, after Sister Rosetta Tharpe, which is a historic black musician, black queer musician who influenced a lot of the beginnings of rock and roll and often is not given that credit. But I made sure to do that in the musical.

[9:01] Douglas Lyons: He finds this one object, this instrument that is going to occupy his summer because there's not much else to do. And Bo plays this song, By Your Side, for him, which on the album is sung by Jeff Brown. And he starts getting guitar lessons from his grandfather, and that gives him an identity which he can latch onto and actually decide for himself. Because when Ferris, you know, Ferris first sees him, Ferris is giving him an identity as, you know, calling him the F word and calling him all these other things. But when he is introduced to that guitar, it's a turning point for Ace to decide who he wants to be, and that is through music. And he brings that back to, you know, his home. And his best friend Daphne is like, we have to start a band. She's, you know, he's like, absolutely not. But it gives the kid who is being bullied every day a reason to come home and have something to look forward to that isn't bruises.

[10:41] Douglas Lyons: That was one of my favorite aspects of the piece, I have to tell you. And it was just such a statement about the power of music, the healing power of music. Because you're right, like, it's so funny. At the beginning, he goes to be with his grandfather. It's not that great. And only once that guitar is passed to Ace, that's such a powerful image of connection that it really helps Ace to kind of like find both his own identity and find his connection to Bo. If people haven't listened to it yet, I mean, you all know by now the album is on Spotify streaming. Go listen to Shut Up, which is the song that's the flashback to Bo's band in the 70s. Check it out, because that's one of my favorite bops in the show. That is such a clear turning point is that when they finally are able to connect through the guitar, that's what gives them like the common language to connect with each other and gives Ace that new identity that he needs to move forward.

[10:45] Douglas Lyons: He's able to channel into music as self, and that's a superpower.

[10:49] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and the other thing is, to look at it from Beau's perspective, we know from the script and from the songs, it's very meaningful that his grandson wants to spend time with him and come live with him. But like, okay, grandson shows up. Okay, what do I do with this grandkid? Like, I don't know how to communicate with a grandkid. Go get me beer or something. But, you know, music so often allows us to communicate or express things in ways that we can't with words. I mean, we do musicals, right? We express things through music that you can't through words. There's a nice symmetry there in your piece and in that moment.

[11:21] Douglas Lyons: I think it's time for another song that I'd love to share with our listeners. The one that's coming to my mind right now is Disappear. I think we'll close out with Runnin', but would you set up Disappear for the listeners?

[11:30] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, so there's a very sort of dark moment when they get to high school where Ferris and Ace have had this, we call it a three-year bathroom stall affair. Ferris has been less kind in public, but in private, they've had this ongoing tender relationship where there's some moments where Ferris reveals some truth about himself and some pain. But when they get to high school and there are more girls present, Karina, who's a junior, takes stock in Ferris. This is around the time Ace is starting to feel feelings that are more romantic and not sexual and fun and private. And he's starting to question, wait, can being queer also mean being in love? Am I in love with you? How do you feel about me? And as he starts to ask these questions, Ferris starts dating Karina and sort of isolates himself away from Ace.

Ace, in response, trying to hold on to his, you know, air quotes, first love, slips his lyrics of crush into Ferris' locker. But sadly, Karina finds the words first and embarrasses him. And there is a chant of the F-bomb that sort of circulates. Ferris says some pretty nasty words to him, trying to protect himself and leaves Ace, you know, basically with like egg on his face and a broken heart. Disappear is the song in the concert evening, the second album evening, that is expressing what Ace is feeling in that moment. Yeah, that moment is really, really devastating in the show. But the song is a very powerful way of dealing with it. And who is performing this song?

[13:06] Douglas Lyons: Charity Dawson and then Olivia Griffin played Karina in the ATF production. She has the solo in the choruses. Fantastic. Well, here is Disappear performed by Charity Dawson and Olivia Griffin.

[13:15] ♪ Musical number: "Disappear" — performed by Charity Dawson and Olivia Griffin ♪

[16:17] Douglas Lyons: This song is just the blues. Rhythm and blues vibes are so strong. It's such a groove. I would say out of any moment in the show, I remember what it was to be young and angsty and want to write a song when something horrible happened to me. You can feel that angst, you can feel that passion in this song so clearly. And yeah, Ferris deciding to leave right at the most pivotal moment is so devastating for Ace, but then he channels that into the music in such a palpable way. I mean, that's what musicians do, right? It's taking heartbreak, it's taking pain, it's taking curiosity and channeling it. I think that's the gift of writing for me now is a lot of the stories I write or engage with are explorations or reactions to things that have happened to me, and Ace is a perfect example of that. He takes his heartbreak, he takes his joy, he takes his curiosity in question, and he puts it to the melody on a guitar. A lot of people relate to that.

[17:22] Teresa Attridge: All right, so you had two off-Broadway runs. Actually, I'd be curious to know how that happened. You had this off-Broadway run with Out of the Box Theatrics, and then you decided to do it a second time. I'd love to know about how that worked out, and then also to track your emotional journey seeing this show that's taken years and years to develop. Would love to know how that experience was for you.

[17:41] Douglas Lyons: So the rights reverted back to us in 24 Fall. I had seen See What I Want to See at Out of the Box Theatrics, and that space, which was formerly the New Ohio Theater, which is down on 154 Christopher, I was like, this kind of space would be ideal for Beau. This would be really cool. And so I pitched it to Liz Fleming on a Friday or Saturday, and by the following Thursday, she was like, we have to do this. And she understood the assignment. She saw the potential of what the show could be. It took months and months of planning and deliberation. Was it economically going to make sense? And I was in Los Angeles working on Don't Touch My Hair at the I Am A Theater Company when I got a phone call in February of last year.

And they were like, we're doing Beau. And I said, are you sure? Do you have the money to do Beau? A lot of things were announced. Now, are we sure we can really do this? And they said, no, we're going to do it. I flew back from L.A. and found myself in auditions for the first production, and we started rehearsal May 12th. And it was fast and furious and heartfelt. We got some really kind notices, and towards the end of the run, it really caught on and it was selling out and celebrities and folks started coming. And because it went so well, and we extended for a week, Out of the Box had just announced they were moving to St. Luke's Church. And the conversation came up, well, maybe we do a proper commercial run.

And again, I asked the question, are you sure? Do we have the money? But we just have this really great group of producers that are hungry and will take two pieces of bread and make French toast. They really will put things together to make it happen. I'm forever grateful for the people and the co-producers. We have people who literally would see the show and then go away, make calls and write a six-figure check, just witnessing it for the first time. And so I'm really indebted to those people. This journey has been, to be honest with you, difficult at times. Making new musicals in the American theater is so difficult, especially when you're not playing the celebrity game, right? The culture of what theater has become is so different than what it was eight, nine years ago when I started this.

And so I'm just really proud of the effort and commitment of these actors who are not just showing up, warming up and walking on stage. They have to be a band. When they don't feel like it, they have to play 10 songs as musicians every night.

[20:06] Teresa Attridge: Oh yeah, at 9:30 on a Friday night when I saw it. And you know, that band seemed like they were having the time of their lives. And I think that might have something to do with Josh's staging. But I was watching it. It seemed like they were loving every second of it, just so that you know. That was part of what was so powerful about the experience.

[20:23] Douglas Lyons: Yeah. You can't phone it in when you have to play every day.

[20:28] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, exactly.

[20:29] Douglas Lyons: And the cool thing by the end, at closing, there were faces now that have become family at the show that have come. You know, this one kid, he stopped me two weeks ago and was like, I've seen it eight times. And I saw him there again last night in the front row. And I was standing in the back corner because thank God we were sold out. And I looked to the right during Crush and I have this video on my Instagram of these kids like bopping out like this is Blink 182 or something. They are in it. And the pride of having written music that resonates with this generation of up and coming theater makers and actors. It's the pride of my life. It is the pride of my life. So I'm really, really grateful for the journey. And you know, we have our eyes set on many possibilities of Broadway calls, of course, we would be interested. We're also looking overseas, maybe, but it's not over. Beau never ends, as I like to say. So whatever happens next, it'll be a very exciting step.

[21:21] Teresa Attridge: The next time I'm in any sort of bar, I'll be like, Hmm, can I stage Beau? I'm a director, just so you know.

[21:29] Teresa Attridge: How can I be like, the Seattle premiere of Beau the Musical will be staged in this bar? Like, I will be having my eyes open, because I just think you're right, that there's something palpable about this music that just grabs people. I see why the producers believe in your show so much. I'm so pleased that I got to see it that Friday night, and then I got to connect with you today to talk about that journey. I'd like to play one more song from the show, which does such a great job of kind of encapsulating the experience of the show. Can you please set up Runnin'?

[21:57] Douglas Lyons: For sure. Runnin' is sort of our 11 o'clock number-ish. It is after, spoiler alert, Beau has passed. Before he passed, he had told Ace he wanted an album of originals by his senior year. And so when there's a really devastating blow moment for Ace, he'd started writing a song, but it was really about self-hatred. After Beau has passed, and he's near graduation, he completes this song, Runnin', which then turns into self-love. And so he offers it sort of as a conclusion in the concert proper, as the song that Beau never got to hear, but he wished that he had. So I know that on the album, this song is performed by Matt Rodin, who was the actor who played Ace when I saw the show. Here is Runnin', performed by Matt Rodin.

[22:51] ♪ Musical number: "Runnin'" — performed by Matt Rodin ♪

[25:33] Douglas Lyons: But you know I do this from time to time on the podcast. I'll actually read lyrics that I find to be really powerful. In the song it says, I caught my reflection in the mirror, so ashamed of what I thought I would see. So I went runnin', runnin' away from me. I hate the boy there in the mirror. He never learned love honestly. So I went runnin', runnin' till I felt free. And you know he sings the song about he realized that, well it says in the song, but down the road I realized I was alone. The boy I tried to abandon was my only home. And he figures out that if there's a way, he's gotta find a way to love himself. And that's what Beau teaches him, that guitar is to find his identity, to embrace himself.

And then by the end, you know, he's at his second album release in the show. But as he's writing the song, he says, I went back to the mirror, it was clear. So I opened the door, walked out in the sunlight, finally felt right. He's able to look at himself and to say, I'm gonna look at myself in the mirror and truly love myself and embrace myself. Hits me right where I live, as they say. I mean, I think I was also writing these lyrics to myself, the understanding of self-embrace and the importance of self-love. RuPaul says, you know, how the hell are you gonna love anybody else if you can't love yourself?

[26:40] Teresa Attridge: I was gonna say that to you. I was gonna say that to you. That's why Mama Ru gives that homework at the end of every episode, right?

[26:46] Douglas Lyons: Yeah, yeah. And so I think of the kids who don't have, I think of the kids who don't live in New York City, who are not surrounded by the safety of diversity and the open-mindedness of a city setting. And so the beauty of having this album and having this song is that kids in Illinois and Kansas City and such can put this in their headphones and it can be an affirmation of self in the mirror wherever they are. That was the whole intention of Beau. And I just, I keep, you know, a dead record here, but I just cannot exclaim enough how proud I am of finally seeing the vision of what I thought it could be. I sit at my desk and there's a Beau poster from ATF and now what it's become, right? It's become this really cool, meaningful show.

And some people call it sappy and it's coming of age, it's queer, we've seen it before. And I'm like, yeah, but we should see it again until people are really embraced to be who they are with full love in a country that should celebrate all types of people. You will have to see Beau time and time again, and I'm not gonna apologize for it, 'cause I wanna save lives, you know?

[27:52] Teresa Attridge: I totally agree with you. Lives need to be saved through pieces like this. One last thing about this song is that Ace has come to accept himself so much so that he's then able to pass that message forward. By the end of the song, he says, so what's in your mirror? Let it be weirder. He's able to take that self-love and pass it out onto the audience, and I think that's just really, really, really powerful.

[28:12] Teresa Attridge: Alright, well Douglas, you know, we like to close out every episode of Backstage Pass with a special game that we devise for our guests. The game that I came up with for you is what is your ideal backing band if you were in, like, your own Nashville bar performing, like, a set? But you, as, like, a person, had to have your backing band kind of like in Beau, but it was just made up of musical theater characters.

[28:36] Douglas Lyons: I have a few thoughts about who would be backing me up. See, here's the thing, I'm gonna end up cheating a little bit because some of these musical theater characters in the age of the jukebox are musicians.

[28:44] Teresa Attridge: Oh, okay.

[28:45] Douglas Lyons: So, having them beautiful, I would have Carole King, who's a musical theater character.

[28:51] Teresa Attridge: Oh, I mean, yeah, that's not cheating. Carole King is in the canon, so you're all set.

[28:55] Douglas Lyons: Yeah, so she would be on piano for sure. The character Stew from Passing Strange would be on guitar.

[29:01] Teresa Attridge: Oh, great choice.

[29:02] Douglas Lyons: I don't know the name, one of the, well, I guess this is a musical theater, but one of the Muppets, there's like a Muppet drummer, isn't there?

[29:10] Teresa Attridge: Oh, yeah, Animal.

[29:13] Douglas Lyons: There we go. He would be on drums.

[29:15] Teresa Attridge: Animal's on drums? Oh, I love that.

[29:17] Douglas Lyons: There is a band in, I haven't seen it yet, but Buena Vista Social Club, I hear is a remarkable band. So I'd have them, like, in the brass section.

[29:24] Teresa Attridge: Yo, that's huge.

[29:27] Douglas Lyons: That's an ensemble.

[29:29] Teresa Attridge: Bass, right?

[29:30] Douglas Lyons: Yeah, yeah.

[29:31] Teresa Attridge: Some diversity.

[29:32] Douglas Lyons: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm about it. The hosts do share their answers as well, so I'll share mine, which is, I don't know, I kind of thought as, like, the lead singer, like, I said envision it as, like, your backing band, but maybe I could duet with this person. And I thought maybe you could duet with Stew, just so you know, from Passing Strange.

[29:47] Teresa Attridge: Yes, that would be amazing.

[29:50] Douglas Lyons: But I was thinking Orpheus from Hadestown as, like, either lead guitar or, like, backing vocals or something like that. And then my, I know I said Nashville Bar, but I am now getting kind of very eclectic with my thoughts about what that performance would be. I don't know, talking about actor musicianship, you know, going back to what I consider to be like the first high-profile actor-musician production was the John Doyle director of Sweeney Todd, where Mrs. Lovett would play the tuba, where, like, Patti LuPone and Mrs. Lovett would play the tuba. So I, you know, you talked about having a brass section. I want Mrs. Lovett slash Patti LuPone back there backing me up on tuba. I don't know, for some reason I was thinking I wanted a Franklin Shepard from Merrily We Roll Along on piano for me.

[30:34] Teresa Attridge: Okay.

[30:35] Douglas Lyons: Because I'm a big Sondheim fan. There's also the band from The Band's Visit. I kind of want them all backing me up. This would be a truly eclectic, I guess, non-Nashville-y concert.

[30:46] Teresa Attridge: Yeah, I mean, James Taylor and James Brown started a band together, and so I feel like having a mixture of different styles and musical theater characters is totally fine for your band. You know, so often we want to take a musical and be like, what does it sound like? And it sounds like this. And what you said was totally right, was James Brown and James Taylor, but it has its own sound too. Your show has evolved as part of the conversation, and, you know, that's what's exciting about this art form is that it keeps evolving.

[31:16] Douglas Lyons: Yeah.

[31:17] Teresa Attridge: Thank you so much, Douglas.

[31:19] Douglas Lyons: Thank you so much for being here. It was truly a pleasure speaking with you. Is there anything else you want to share before we say farewell?

[31:26] Douglas Lyons: No, keep an eye out. Listen to the album. The more streams we get, the more awareness. I don't think Beau is done. It's just where is the band going next? Who knows?

[31:37] Teresa Attridge: I love that. Where is the band going next? I totally agree with you, Beau is not done yet. Thank you.

[31:43] Douglas Lyons: Thanks everyone for listening.

[31:45] Teresa Attridge: Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us on New York Theatre Barn's Backstage Pass, hosted by Teresa Attridge and Pauls Macs. And if you believe in supporting original culture-shifting musicals, please like, subscribe, and share. Get your backstage pass.