This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Teresa Attridge: The music of tomorrow is being written today.

[0:10] Pauls Macs: The music of tomorrow is almost ready to play.

[0:18] Teresa Attridge: Experience the musicals of tomorrow today.

[0:21] Pauls Macs: Get a glimpse inside the blueprint of an original musical being developed in real time.

[0:26] Teresa Attridge: With New York Theatre Barn's podcast, The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:32] Pauls Macs: The music of tomorrow.

[0:40] Teresa Attridge: I'm Joe Barros.

[0:42] Pauls Macs: And I'm Jen Sandler.

[0:44] Teresa Attridge: And we're the hosts of The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:46] Pauls Macs: As the Artistic Director and Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn, we make space to speak in community with musical theatre writers and their creative teams.

[0:56] Teresa Attridge: Lifting up songs from original culture-shifting musicals in development and introducing them to a global audience has become a major part of New York Theatre Barn's evolving story.

[1:06] Pauls Macs: Each original musical's intention, content, and journey are unique and extraordinary to the storytellers who create them.

[1:14] Teresa Attridge: We believe that there is no formula for musical theatre except authenticity.

[1:20] Pauls Macs: We recently spoke with the writers of A Walk on the Moon, Paul Scott Goodman and Pamela Gray, and the writers of We Live in Cairo, Daniel and Patrick Lazour.

[1:29] Teresa Attridge: Our first musical is A Walk on the Moon, which has music and lyrics by Paul Scott Goodman and book and additional lyrics by the film's screenwriter, Pamela Gray.

[1:39] Pauls Macs: The show features music supervision by Greg Anthony Rassen and direction by Cheryl Kaller.

[1:45] Teresa Attridge: A Walk on the Moon is a heart-stirring new musical that transports audiences to the summer of 1969.

[1:52] Pauls Macs: Man is about to take his first steps on the moon.

[1:55] Teresa Attridge: Pearl Kantrowitz, a dutiful housewife, is spending another season with her husband and family in the Catskills, just miles from Woodstock.

[2:03] Pauls Macs: Sensing the change in the air and longing to take a giant leap of her own, Pearl begins a love affair with a free-spirited traveling salesman.

[2:12] Teresa Attridge: But when this whirlwind romance pulls her away from the life she's always known, Pearl must decide if she's truly ready to leave her world behind.

[2:20] Pauls Macs: Here's our conversation with the writers of A Walk on the Moon, Paul Scott Goodman and Pamela Gray.

[2:26] Teresa Attridge: Hi, Paul.

[2:27] Paul Scott Goodman: Hey, Paul. How's it going?

[2:29] Teresa Attridge: It's so good to have you here. I'm a huge fan of your work.

[2:33] Paul Scott Goodman: I love your shows Bright Lights, Big City and Rooms.

[2:37] Teresa Attridge: I would be remiss to say that I haven't sung in the shower, comb a baby and bring the future faster.

[2:45] Paul Scott Goodman: So those are things that happen in my life. I love your work.

[2:50] Teresa Attridge: I have not done that, but I'm very fortunate to have worked with you.

[2:54] Paul Scott Goodman: Well, that's almost as good.

[2:58] Teresa Attridge: So before we dive into a little conversation with you and Pamela and your team, this story takes place in 1969.

[3:05] Paul Scott Goodman: 1969 saw the Manson murders, the Stonewall riots, the Woodstock Festival, Man Landing on the Moon.

[3:12] Teresa Attridge: The Who released the rock opera Tommy, which I love.

[3:14] Paul Scott Goodman: Richard Nixon was the 37th president of the United States.

[3:18] Teresa Attridge: The Black Panthers ignited the Black Power movement.

[3:21] Paul Scott Goodman: Interracial marriage had only been recently legalized the year before.

[3:25] Teresa Attridge: And there were large anti-Vietnam War protests.

[3:29] Paul Scott Goodman: In fact, your song Something New references some of these historical events.

[3:34] Teresa Attridge: Needless to say, change was in the air for an evolving America.

[3:39] Paul Scott Goodman: In 1969, Americans were fighting against police brutality.

[3:43] Teresa Attridge: They were fighting for racial and gender equality and searching for peace through music and peaceful protests.

[3:50] Paul Scott Goodman: And it actually feels remnant of the broken country that we are currently living in.

[3:56] Teresa Attridge: I'm also going to bring on the great Pamela Gray now as well.

[4:00] Paul Scott Goodman: So I know the two of you have a lot of history with this show.

[4:03] Teresa Attridge: This was your beloved film before it was the musical.

[4:06] Paul Scott Goodman: It is now, Pamela.

[4:08] Teresa Attridge: So how did all of this come to be that you started working together?

[4:12] Pamela Gray: About a year after the movie came out, I was contacted by other producers who are not our producers now.

[4:20] Pamela Gray: And they had the idea to turn it into a musical.

[4:25] Pamela Gray: They had brought Paul in and he had already written a song or two.

[4:31] Pamela Gray: And it wound up falling out with these producers.

[4:36] Pamela Gray: And Paul stayed in touch with me through the years and kept saying, what can we do?

[4:42] Pamela Gray: And I finally said, all right, let's do something.

[4:47] Pamela Gray: And he mentioned a friend of his was a theater director.

[4:52] Pamela Gray: And I didn't hear the name. I couldn't understand his Scottish accent.

[4:57] Pamela Gray: And it turned out to be Michael Greif.

[5:00] Pamela Gray: And so we went into development, the three of us.

[5:04] Pamela Gray: Paul brought in the Hendels, Ruth and Steve.

[5:08] Pamela Gray: And we worked with Michael until Dear Evan Hansen.

[5:13] Pamela Gray: And then we got the wonderful Cheryl Kaller.

[5:16] Pamela Gray: So it had two histories.

[5:18] Teresa Attridge: And, Paul, what speaks to you about this movie? Why did you want to musicalize it?

[5:23] Paul Scott Goodman: It was about love and about music and about change, about turmoil. All the things that we're thinking about now, I think they were thinking about then.

[5:33] Paul Scott Goodman: Also, it was a good chance to work with a Hollywood screenwriter, which I'd never done before.

[5:38] Teresa Attridge: How has your score elevated this story in particular? Because I think your scores are always so particular and nuanced.

[5:46] Paul Scott Goodman: Well, you know, Pam writes in a way that's very detailed and easy to write. And so, you know, she was giving me really good situations, you know, historical situations, actually.

[6:00] Paul Scott Goodman: So I always thought if I could write some decent songs, I had a chance of passing the test of time.

[6:06] Teresa Attridge: I just want to say, I think this movie has truly passed the test of time. Because it's something when you bring it up, so many people think about it so fondly.

[6:14] Paul Scott Goodman: And it's something they're so excited about still.

[6:16] Pamela Gray: Yes, so many people like it.

[6:18] Teresa Attridge: What were you going to say?

[6:20] Pamela Gray: Well, I was going to talk about the two inspirations for the movie, which just translated into the musical.

[6:28] Pamela Gray: I spent all my summer in the Catskills at these bungalow colonies.

[6:32] Pamela Gray: And there were two inspirations.

[6:34] Pamela Gray: One was that so many people didn't know about the bungalow colony world, which was a working-class Jewish world.

[6:42] Pamela Gray: It wasn't like the big hotels.

[6:44] Pamela Gray: And it was only women and children during the week.

[6:48] Pamela Gray: And men came up on the weekends.

[6:50] Pamela Gray: So I wanted to show that world.

[6:53] Pamela Gray: And I had a very distinct memory, which I think is the fulcrum of our show.

[7:00] Pamela Gray: I was in the swimming pool with the bubbies playing mahjong and the moms playing cards.

[7:08] Pamela Gray: And through the chain link fence, I saw the hippies walking to the Woodstock Festival.

[7:14] Pamela Gray: A lot of people don't know that the festival was not in Woodstock.

[7:18] Pamela Gray: It was in the midst of all these bungalow colonies.

[7:20] Pamela Gray: And I wanted to throw myself through that fence.

[7:24] Pamela Gray: I was literally on the wrong side of history.

[7:28] Pamela Gray: And that's what our main character goes through.

[7:33] Pamela Gray: She's got a teenage daughter living in the summer of '69 who is part of, in her mind, the revolution.

[7:41] Pamela Gray: And here's this working-class Jewish housewife who is separated from that world completely.

[7:49] Pamela Gray: And gradually, through the influence of the summer itself, the walk on the moon, the daughter, and the blouse man, who's the hippie she has the affair with, she wants to get on the other side of the fence.

[8:04] Pamela Gray: And I think Paul really grabbed that and started from that place.

[8:09] Teresa Attridge: You and Paul seem to have a really exciting collaboration, which began at New York Stage and Film's Powerhouse Theater at Vassar, which is a very exciting beginning for your show.

[8:20] Paul Scott Goodman: Yeah, so I know after Vassar, you had a development at New York Theater Workshop.

[8:25] Teresa Attridge: Tell us about after that.

[8:27] Paul Scott Goodman: You had a production out west in San Francisco.

[8:30] Teresa Attridge: And then you have a production that was scheduled to happen this spring at the George Street Playhouse in New Jersey.

[8:35] Paul Scott Goodman: And it is scheduled to happen next year now, hopefully.

[8:38] Teresa Attridge: Hopefully.

[8:40] Paul Scott Goodman: 2020, not even a thing down.

[8:42] Teresa Attridge: I was just going to say, for those people who are tuning in who don't know what San Francisco's ACT is, that's San Francisco's American Conservatory Theater, which is completely different from George Street Playhouse.

[8:53] Paul Scott Goodman: And now joining us to tell us more about the development of the show and its evolution is creative team members, Tony-nominated director Cheryl Kaller and music supervisor Greg Anthony Rassen.

[9:04] Teresa Attridge: Thank you guys for joining us.

[9:08] Cheryl Kaller: Firstly, I want to say that one of the greatest things, thank you for having us here.

[9:30] Cheryl Kaller: And one of the greatest things about our business is that Michael Greif kind of blessed me.

[9:36] Cheryl Kaller: You know, Michael had hit a crossroads with having Evan Hansen and another musical, War Paint, happening, you know, two trains.

[9:46] Cheryl Kaller: And, you know, you can only have two trains running.

[9:49] Teresa Attridge: My agent, I was shopping in Nordstrom with my daughter in Long Island, I swear.

[9:54] Cheryl Kaller: My agency is Nordstrom.

[9:56] Pauls Macs: That's right.

[9:57] Cheryl Kaller: Yes, yes, yes.

[9:58] Cheryl Kaller: And my agent called me like three or four times in a row.

[10:01] Cheryl Kaller: And he said, do you know Ruth and Steve Hendel? Do you know Ruth and Steve Hendel? They're producing this musical that's perfect for you.

[10:08] Cheryl Kaller: And I said, yes, I know them, and I know a lot of people who know them.

[10:11] Cheryl Kaller: And so I had like 30 of my best friends call Ruth and Steve.

[10:16] Cheryl Kaller: And finally, Ruth called me and said, okay, okay, okay.

[10:20] Cheryl Kaller: And they introduced me, and we did a Zoom with Pam and Paul, and then Paul came up to my apartment.

[10:26] Cheryl Kaller: I was living on the Upper West Side and came up with his guitar, and we did another Zoom.

[10:30] Cheryl Kaller: And, you know, this musical, I think, Jo, you said, like, I like digging in.

[10:35] Cheryl Kaller: I like digging in deep.

[10:37] Cheryl Kaller: And this musical is so evocative.

[10:40] Cheryl Kaller: It's a feminist story.

[10:42] Cheryl Kaller: It's a story.

[10:43] Cheryl Kaller: I think, Pam, you described it so beautifully, as did you, Paul.

[10:47] Cheryl Kaller: You know, it involves young people making a revolution.

[10:50] Cheryl Kaller: We don't know what that feels like now, right?

[10:54] Cheryl Kaller: It involves women who are feeling like they can do more.

[10:59] Cheryl Kaller: We don't know how that feels like either, right?

[11:02] Cheryl Kaller: You know, Angela, Ava DuVernay did an interview with Angela Davis in the most recent Vanity Fair that Ta-Nehisi Coates guest edited.

[11:11] Cheryl Kaller: And she said that, you know, history not only repeats itself, but as activists, we just have to keep on being active.

[11:19] Cheryl Kaller: And the world will catch up with us one day.

[11:23] Cheryl Kaller: And so I feel like we are living in a time that is so relevant to what, you know, what happened in '69 and how far we've come and how far we really haven't come.

[11:36] Cheryl Kaller: And what Woodstock did and how music can change the world and what, you know, what black and brown and BIPOC artists are bringing to our community now.

[11:44] Cheryl Kaller: And everything that our musical, you know, yes, it's about a Jewish woman in the bungalow colonies on the other side of the fence.

[11:52] Cheryl Kaller: And it's also about what's happening now.

[11:54] Cheryl Kaller: And those are my favorite, you know, the specificity of that, you know, specificity makes it universal.

[12:00] Cheryl Kaller: And so we just keep digging into those stories.

[12:03] Cheryl Kaller: So it's just very and the music is the bomb.

[12:06] Paul Anthony Rassen: So it's just great.

[12:08] Greg Anthony Rassen: And Greg, I know, Greg, you got involved with the show when it was out west in San Francisco, right?

[12:13] Greg Anthony Rassen: I did in San Francisco.

[12:15] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I was one of the few people on the team that had never seen the movie.

[12:18] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I remember getting on a flight. They needed some help.

[12:21] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I, like, got on the show.

[12:23] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I got on the flight with the script.

[12:25] Greg Anthony Rassen: And by the end of the flight, I'd read the script.

[12:27] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I thought it was hysterical and just very touching in the characters.

[12:32] Greg Anthony Rassen: And I didn't know any of the music at this point.

[12:34] Greg Anthony Rassen: So I walked into rehearsal and just saw them singing some of the songs.

[12:37] Greg Anthony Rassen: And it really added to already an amazing play.

[12:40] Greg Anthony Rassen: And so I did get involved in San Francisco.

[12:43] Greg Anthony Rassen: And we had many days where we got up at 6 in the morning and went to bed at 2 in the morning.

[12:48] Greg Anthony Rassen: And we got it up.

[12:50] Greg Anthony Rassen: And it was just fantastic.

[12:50] Paul Scott Goodman: Did I imagine that? Did I just make that call?

[13:20] Paul Scott Goodman: I can barely breathe. No, I can't breathe at all. Look at me. I'm shaking. I must be insane. My heart is racing like a runaway subway train. Something's happening.

[13:50] Paul Scott Goodman: Somebody crack that mirror. That woman isn't me. Somebody slam that door and throw away the key. She better snap awake. She's making a big mistake. But she just can't seem to keep the ground beneath her feet.

[14:20] Paul Scott Goodman: I need a cigarette. Wait, I need three or four. A voice keeps whispering. No, a voice keeps shouting more. First I'm boiling hot, then I'm freezing cold. First I'm a woman, then I'm seventeen years old. What is happening?

[14:56] Paul Scott Goodman: Somebody break that mirror. I don't like what I see. That crazy woman there, she can't be me. Look at my life. I'm reeling. Listen to my heartbeat. I just can't seem to keep the ground beneath my feet.

[15:54] Paul Scott Goodman: Pearlie, what you doing? You're Marty's loyal wife. Who the hell you fooling? You're gonna ruin your life. No, I won't. Pearlie, I'm telling you, don't, don't, don't. Don't wanna smash that mirror. Don't wanna break the spell. Don't wanna stop this dizzy rush of heat. I'm mad on my head. I'm spinning. This terror tastes so damn sweet. I just can't seem to keep the ground, the ground that's turning upside down beneath my feet.

[16:55] Jackie Burns: Wow. Wow, Jackie.

[17:00] Paul Scott Goodman: I wanna see that production. That's one of the few songs that Paul and I worked on in the very beginning. I mean, it changed through the years, but it so expresses what Pearl is going through at that point in the story.

[17:17] Paul Scott Goodman: And it is about, first, I'm a woman, now I'm seventeen years old, and she's both. So I'd love to hear a little more about the music from Paul and Greg for a second.

[17:29] Pamela Gray: I know he's been working with Paul for more than a hot second.

[17:32] Paul Scott Goodman: Oh, absolutely. And Anne-Marie, obviously, is one of our team members. Also, Dylan Condor is our co-orchestrator. For instance, you heard that song, you might have heard, you noticed that it wasn't just piano accompaniment. There's quite a few musicians playing.

[17:46] Paul Scott Goodman: So right when COVID happened, we were scheduled to do an actual recording session with Jackie and the musicians, because Dylan and I had started to orchestrate the piece and we got shut down. So a few weeks after COVID started, several of my musician friends just kind of volunteered their time and sent me, you know, tracks of themselves playing. And I put it together just so our entire team at George Street could sort of hear what the show was going to sound like.

[18:13] Paul Scott Goodman: And so I think that's the first time anybody has actually got to hear what it's going to sound like, because we made a lot of changes in San Francisco. We made a big effort. The Hendels, Ruth and Steve, are, let's say, experts in the music of 1969, if you will, and they have great ideas about how this, it was a film, obviously, and there's such a soundtrack to 1969 that I loved taking Paul's songs and then being inspired by like Jefferson Airplane or Paul Butterfield and the Birds and Crosby, Stills and Nash and Young.

[18:46] Paul Scott Goodman: And so I've been working with Dylan and taking all these songs and say, how do they fit into this period? What makes us think of 1969? How did we react to Woodstock? What were the guitars doing at the time? So that's what you're getting to hear now is the kind of fruits of our labor in that effect.

[19:03] Paul Scott Goodman: And Paul, what was that collaboration like for you? It sounds like it was so thrilling.

[19:07] Paul Scott Goodman: I'm very thrilled very easily, as you can tell. Expectations are low.

[19:12] Paul Scott Goodman: You were born in America and you came to America for the first time in 1984. And this is an inherent American story. So what was it like for you to sort of jump, dive in and sort of dig into the story?

[19:33] Paul Scott Goodman: It was good. You know, a universal story is a universal story. But, you know, look, I was working with legends finally. Paul also composed on guitar too, like a lot of his composition.

[19:44] Paul Scott Goodman: I think the second song we're going to show you.

[19:47] Paul Scott Goodman: Yeah, let's talk about our second song. I think, Paul, you composed that one on piano, right?

[19:53] Paul Scott Goodman: Part of My Heart. I think Gravity is definitely composed on guitar. But didn't you do Part of My Heart on piano?

[20:00] Paul Scott Goodman: Both, actually. But I got the initial work on the piano. So let's hear more about Part of My Heart.

[20:07] Paul Scott Goodman: So, by now, Pearl is in the third week of her affair. And, again, to think about, between the moonwalk and Woodstock was less than three weeks. She has been busted.

[20:23] Paul Scott Goodman: And, you know, her mother-in-law basically knows. And so the decision about Woodstock is even more excruciating for her. She has started writing since she met the blouse man. Like, all these parts of herself are opening up.

[20:44] Paul Scott Goodman: And she knows that going to Woodstock means she's risking everything. She's making that final leap. So, oh, this is a song she sings when the hippies jump into a lake.

[20:59] Paul Scott Goodman: And she starts by singing to them, the hippies en route to Woodstock. So here is Part of My Heart.

[21:07] ♪ Musical number: "Part of My Heart" — performed by Jackie Burns ♪

[24:13] Paul Scott Goodman: We just want to talk about, to close, what are you guys most excited about when we can get back in a theater and see this show again?

[24:15] Paul Scott Goodman: I can go to any of you.

[24:20] Jackie Burns: Just, just, you know, I think it's just to have community again. And Joe and Jen and New York Theater Barn, you should be really just, really, thank you. Because, like, this just felt so great and it just felt so great.

[24:39] Jackie Burns: And in the theater community again, I think just, you know, telling stories and collaborating and telling stories that are important to people and also that will entertain. So I just have to say that I can't wait to be back in a rehearsal room and in a theater again.

[24:56] Jackie Burns: Yeah, I mean, like so many people, we were on the edge of our first rehearsal. Like we shut down the day before I was flying to New York.

[25:05] Jackie Burns: Like we shut down the day before I was flying to New York. So if you imagine all that excitement and adrenaline and then, so I just can't wait to go back in the world and be with everyone and be in a theater with humans.

[25:20] Jackie Burns: And being in George Street's nice. They have a beautiful new theater. Everybody who's watching, I encourage you to support George Street Playhouse when you come home.

[25:28] Paul Scott Goodman: Absolutely. Their new theater, we were developing projections already and the set is built and stored. So come see us at the fabulous George Street Theater when we come back.

[25:40] Paul Scott Goodman: Let's go.

[25:41] Paul Scott Goodman: Our second new musical is We Live In Cairo, which has book, music, and lyrics by Daniel & Patrick Lazour. Inspired by the young Egyptians who took to the streets in 2011 to overthrow President Hosni Mubarak, We Live In Cairo follows six revolutionary students, armed with laptops and cameras, guitars and spray cans, as they come of age in contemporary Cairo. We Live In Cairo moves from the jubilation of Tahrir Square through the tumultuous years that followed. As escalating division and violence lead to a military crackdown, the revolutionaries of Tahrir must confront the question of how, or even whether, to keep their dreams of change alive. A concept album of the show, Flat My Wings, is available now wherever music can be streamed and purchased. And now, here's our conversation with the writers of We Live In Cairo, Daniel & Patrick Lazour.

[26:56] Teresa Attridge: Hi guys. So you are only, we've said this to you, you're only our second group of songwriters that are in the same place together and you're our first brothers after having a mother and a son and a father and a son. Wow, keeping it in the family. All right, well let's dive into talking about your show. The Egyptian revolution was a statement against increasing police brutality, which consisted of demonstrations, marches, occupations of plazas, acts of civil disobedience and strikes. Millions of protesters from a range of socioeconomic and religious backgrounds demanded the overthrow of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, resulting in at least 846 people killed and over 6,000 injured. After reading your show on the NAMT Festival Committee years ago, I was inspired, after I was hired to direct a production of Aida in Singapore, the musical, to set the show in Tahrir Square in the 2011 Egyptian revolution with protesters telling the story of Aida as a protest.

So this story is a really vibrant part of history because of the power of the people of Egypt. Your musical, We Live In Cairo, dramatizes Egypt's Arab Spring uprising from its prehistory in the organizing of the early 2000s through the 18 days of protest in 2011 that led to Mubarak's resignation and the year that followed ending with dictator Abdel Fattah al-Sisi's raid of two camps of protesters in Cairo. So many Americans have no idea about Arab Spring, the 2011 Egyptian revolution, January 25th, day of revolt. I mean, I bet most people don't even know that the 25th of January was chosen because this was an Egyptian police holiday. And there are even echoes of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests in this very story, and even the battles and protests we're currently facing here in our country during this historical and trying time.

You, as Jen said, are brothers and Bostonians or Westorians of Lebanese background with a vibrant musical theater storytelling voice. What drew you to this story and what inspired you to create an inspired ensemble musical?

[29:37] Daniel Lazour: That's a great question. Well, actually, I feel like I tell this story a lot, but we were inspired by a photo, actually, that was taken by a photojournalist, Ed Oh, of the New York Times. It's this great photo of all of these youth, these students, these youth revolutionaries on the seventh floor of a building overlooking Tahrir Square. And they're on a laptop. It's kind of this messy pell-mell situation where there's a laptop, there's hard drives, there's Coke cans and all this. And all of these students are around uploading videos and photos and other revolutionary media from that day in the square onto their computers so they can share it and hopefully get more people to the square the next day.

So that photo really, I think, was the impetus for the entire show. And then from there, we really started, you know, we started getting into the music, started making contacts with activists that were in the square, as well as musicians that were in the square. And that was kind of the beginning of the journey, the now probably six-and-a-half, seven-year journey, the whole thing.

[30:58] Patrick Lazour: And I know your development path is really exciting. Paul talked about NAMT. Where else has your show been around? Because it's been around a lot of really exciting places.

[31:07] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, it's bounced around and it's changed a lot. Like, it's definitely, they've been different shows in sort of every iteration. Just given that, you know, learning about the revolution, learning more about the region was something really important to us. So with every new conversation that we had, we sort of had to respond with sort of a new draft. And, you know, even resulting in us going to Egypt and doing a reading with students at the university in Cairo, American University Cairo. So that's one place it's gone in a reading format. It's been at the O'Neill Theater Center, NAMT, the NAMT Festival. And then recently, most recently, it was at the American Repertory Theater.

[31:55] Patrick Lazour: It was directed by Egyptian-American director, Tebi Mugar.

[31:59] Teresa Attridge: Yes. And I was going to say, what did you discover from that production? That was the first time the show was really on its feet in a way it hadn't been before.

[32:07] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, that's a... What did we learn? Like, what did we learn from the show?

[32:12] Patrick Lazour: Yeah, what did you come out of that first kind of run with full costumes and set and whatnot?

[32:17] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, that's a great... I think I learned that it really... We had this amazing talkback series that the ART organized with the Middle East Institute at Harvard. And I think, you know, when we were sitting and listening to the talkback with certain scholars and activists who had come to see the show or journalists or whatever, and there was this conversation, I think, like, the show seemed to really land... It didn't land for everyone, but it landed definitely for those people who have an interest in learning more about the region and learning about... I mean, it sounds like educational. Like, I mean, hopefully, you know, we're trying to do something that's entertaining and impactful, and not just like a docu-theater. But I think you do have to come into the theater and be like, this is going to be something that is new, you know?

[33:15] Patrick Lazour: I was just going to say, actually, the thing I... Given that, given these sort of talks and the conversations we had throughout our entire process with the ART, we... I think I kind of finally realized that this show, it needs to be sort of a living, breathing thing. Like, it needs to be constantly changing. It needs to be put in every different iteration. Like, it needs to be in a concert setting. It needs to be, you know, recorded with, you know, different art, you know, with all kinds of different artists and different outlooks and all these things. And I think, like, what I realized after the... during the production and after the production is like, you know, getting this... getting the... what this show is trying to say and getting the, you know, the Egyptian revolution and the revolutions of the Arab world to the... to people, to people in the United States is so important. And in whatever way we can do that is the most important to us, I think.

[34:16] Teresa Attridge: Absolutely. And I just was going to say, I think theater is also such an education tool. So you're doing the right thing if you're looking at it in that lens as well.

[34:23] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, yeah, we hope. Yeah, thank you. I think that what sort of separates your show from a docu-musical is that I think your characters are really, you know, they're at conflict with this country in the beginning. And then I think, sort of in the second half of your show, they're more at conflict with themselves, you know, based on what they've learned throughout the journey about how they truly feel.

[34:44] Patrick Lazour: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you're spot on. And I think what's sort of hard... I mean, what was the biggest challenge of this musical was to have a first act that really was propelling towards, like, one of the greatest revolutions in modern history, you know, the January 25th to February 11th, and then trying to find a way to really activate that second act, which is really quite personal, quite intimate, just between these six characters, and how all of their, you know, all of their politics and their relationships start to fracture.

[35:26] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, I mean, I think the audience experience sort of mimics the revolution in a way because it's sort of like you feel it, you're swept up in what's happening. And then do you hang on for what comes after? Because that happens, I mean, yeah. And I, you know, we all experience that when we're swept up in something, especially political movements, like, when there aren't millions in the street, what's going on? There's this character, Fedwa, who I think is my favorite character personally, in the show, and she is really like the diehard revolutionary. And toward, in the second act of the show, she, to a lot of the characters, she appears to be unhinged, you know, she appears to like, well, why aren't, like, you need to go out in the streets, you need to, but in reality, like, this is the only way that movements continue, you know, with that one person, who actually continues to fight and bring people along with them to the next movement, and the next movement, you know?

And I think that's what's happening right now, too. And like, if I tuned in right now to this broadcast, I would think you were talking about what was happening in New York right now with Black Lives Matter. I think that's what's so exciting about movements, we can all learn something from each other.

[36:44] Patrick Lazour: Yeah, there are certain big, you know, questions.

[36:48] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I like, like what you said about the audience, their experience mimics the revolution. And I sort of imagine by the end, it's sort of like, are you going to join us up here? Are you going to sit there and just continue? Wait for change, because you can't wait, change is only going to happen if you try.

[37:01] Patrick Lazour: Right, totally. Yeah. You know, we're trying to fit in the song about the martyrs, yeah, the people who have, who died for this revolution, and how, you know, it really is about, you know, how essential it is to continue honoring those martyrs even past the revolution. And I think that's sort of... And we don't use the term martyrs necessarily here, but, and I almost think that it's, maybe to an American ear, it sort of has this distancing effect. But that's very much what we're experiencing now. I mean, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, that gets, you know, martyrs of revolution, these names that we have to remember and uphold and fight for. So let's talk about our first song tonight. I think both performers are the both of you as well. Tahrir, Tahrir is now, right? It's the end of Act One. It's the characters right before the 18th day of the revolution when Mubarak steps down. So here it is.

[38:05] ♪ Musical number: "Tahrir" — performed by Daniel & Patrick Lazour ♪

[38:32] ♪ Musical number: "الشعب يريد إسقاط النظام" — performed by Daniel & Patrick Lazour ♪

[39:45] ♪ Musical number: "حرية" — performed by Daniel & Patrick Lazour ♪

[41:47] Daniel Lazour: Yay! I wish I liked my brother enough to write a musical with him.

[41:56] Patrick Lazour: Yeah, that's Olive.

[41:59] Daniel Lazour: You told me she was going to make a bad joke. That was actually a pretty good joke. That's funny.

[42:04] Patrick Lazour: Yeah, but who said we liked each other? Is it real?

[42:07] Daniel Lazour: Ooh, that's true.

[42:09] Patrick Lazour: By the way, so that's the music. The music really makes me move.

[42:13] Daniel Lazour: So I'm curious to see how the movement vocabulary of the show sort of materializes.

[42:19] Patrick Lazour: Yes, yeah. We had a great choreographer, Samar Hadid-King, who really responded to the music in a beautiful way.

[42:27] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, and a great ensemble who moved amazingly and very naturally.

[42:36] Patrick Lazour: And even though some of them weren't trained dancers, their ability to sort of step into their culture really was beautiful.

[42:47] Daniel Lazour: So I know you mentioned an album. Can you tell us a little more about that?

[42:51] Patrick Lazour: Because I think this is a show where it's in development, but people are still already so excited about it.

[42:56] Daniel Lazour: I was talking with our great orchestrator and music supervisor, Michael Starobin, and he just gave such a great piece of advice. Let the album be a separate sound object.

[43:05] Patrick Lazour: If people are interested in the score, then they'll dig into it to figure out what the story is, but let it stand on its own.

[43:17] Daniel Lazour: And I think we're really taking that to its hilt and making sure the songs are arranged differently and brought to a context.

[43:26] Patrick Lazour: Like a sort of more singer-songwriter context, maybe a little bit more pop.

[43:33] Daniel Lazour: So let's hear about our second song tonight.

[43:36] Patrick Lazour: Yes. So this is Flat My Wings.

[43:40] Daniel Lazour: This comes after a sort of grisly scene in the show where the ensemble happens upon online a photo of a student, Khaled Saeed, who was beaten to death by police.

[43:55] Patrick Lazour: And the image that was released from his autopsy, in many ways, was sort of the spark to the protests because they saw this young student, this young 26-year-old programmer, who was simply just sitting in a cafe in Alexandria, pulled out by police and beaten to death.

[44:18] Daniel Lazour: And the song is sort of about this term that has sort of been circulating now in our media, too, the deep state in Egypt, where it feels like you can't do anything.

[44:32] Patrick Lazour: You have no power underneath everything above you. But maybe you do, is sort of the thesis.

[44:41] Daniel Lazour: So here is Flat My Wings.

[44:49] ♪ Musical number: "Flat My Wings" — performed by Daniel & Patrick Lazour ♪

[48:19] Patrick Lazour: The man set himself on fire for the love of his home.

[48:33] Daniel Lazour: The man set himself on fire for the love of his home.

[48:42] Patrick Lazour: And we move on, but we carry that.

[48:50] Daniel Lazour: Thank you guys, thank you.

[48:55] Patrick Lazour: That was so awesome, thanks for sharing those two songs.

[48:57] Daniel Lazour: Last question tonight, what are you the most excited about when you're back in the theater and you can work on the show?

[49:04] Patrick Lazour: For me honestly, it is truly being, like the joy of feeling every time you walk into a theater to see a show, that you have like a community, especially in the New York theater, that you have like a community around you.

[49:19] Daniel Lazour: And you sort of see someone from across the way that you kind of know and you maybe like talk to them a little bit.

[49:26] Patrick Lazour: And then over there is like a friend and you say hi, like all of that stuff, I miss so much.

[49:31] Daniel Lazour: And then you like all sit there and experience a piece together.

[49:35] Patrick Lazour: It's just, I'm like tearing up thinking about it.

[49:38] Daniel Lazour: Yeah, no, I said to someone last week, I didn't realize how much time I spent in a dark room until I wasn't able to anymore.

[49:44] Patrick Lazour: And that's the elf.

[49:47] Daniel Lazour: It's such a social event.

[49:49] Patrick Lazour: And your whole week is like around that night, you know?

[49:52] Daniel Lazour: I will never complain about the length, like you're getting home late.

[49:57] Patrick Lazour: Literally, I can go to Les Miserables for three hours and I will be, I mean all the three hour shows, it's fine.

[50:05] Daniel Lazour: Yeah.

[50:07] Patrick Lazour: I love coming together with storytellers like you and the team that we had before this from A Walk on the Moon to just be reminded about different messages about the world.

[50:14] Daniel Lazour: Like I love how Pam said about how that story was born out of being on the wrong side of history.

[50:23] Patrick Lazour: Literally, that metaphor.

[50:25] Daniel Lazour: And also the audience experience, their experience mimics the revolution, just the power of that.

[50:32] Patrick Lazour: Just to sort of feel those themes and those metaphors from storytellers is something that I miss doing in a room.

[50:40] Daniel Lazour: So I'm personally looking forward to that.

[50:42] Patrick Lazour: But thank you both so much.

[50:44] Daniel Lazour: And we can't wait to see what's next for We Live in Cairo.

[50:47] Patrick Lazour: Thank you so much.

[50:48] Daniel Lazour: Thank you, guys.

[50:49] Patrick Lazour: It was great.

[50:50] Daniel Lazour: And I so appreciate us.

[50:51] Patrick Lazour: Of course.

[50:52] Daniel Lazour: Thank you.

[50:53] Patrick Lazour: Thank you, guys.

[50:54] Daniel Lazour: Join us next time for more of The Musicals of Tomorrow.