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[0:00] Joe Barros: The music of tomorrow is being written today. The music of tomorrow is almost ready to play.

[0:18] Joe Barros: Experience the musicals of tomorrow today. Get a glimpse inside the blueprint of an original musical being developed in real time.

[0:26] Joe Barros: With New York Theatre Barn's podcast, The Musicals of Tomorrow.

[0:40] Joe Barros: I'm Joe Barros. And I'm Jen Sandler.

[0:44] Joe Barros: And we're the hosts of The Musicals of Tomorrow. As the Artistic Director and Associate Artistic Director of New York Theatre Barn, we make space to speak in community with musical theatre writers and their creative teams.

[0:57] Joe Barros: Lifting up songs from original culture-shifting musicals in development and introducing them to a global audience has become a major part of New York Theatre Barn's evolving story.

[1:07] Joe Barros: Each original musical's intention, content, and journey are unique and extraordinary to the storytellers who create them. We believe that there is no formula for musical theatre except authenticity.

[1:20] Joe Barros: We recently spoke with the writers of Borderline, Aryanna Garber, and Benjamin Velez, and the writer of The Lucky Boy, Kirsten Childs.

[1:28] Joe Barros: Our first musical is Borderline, which has music and lyrics by Benjamin Velez and a book by Aryanna Garber. The show features direction by Sarna Lapine.

[1:38] Joe Barros: Borderline is a new musical dramedy about a girl living with borderline personality disorder and struggling for normalcy amidst a revolving door of therapists, medications, and dysfunctional relationships.

[1:50] Joe Barros: This new musical is a deeply personal story that explores the highs and lows, heartache, and absurdity of living on the borderline.

[1:58] Joe Barros: And now, here's our conversation with the writers of Borderline, Aryanna Garber, and Benjamin Velez.

[2:05] Aryanna Garber: Hi everyone!

[2:06] Benjamin Velez: We are certainly excited about this new musical. Borderline personality disorder seems like quite an untold story on the stage, but musical theatre seems like a fitting medium to examine such a story.

[2:19] Aryanna Garber: So tell us what inspired you to write a musical about borderline personality and this story in particular.

[2:25] Benjamin Velez: Well, a lot of the experience were based on my past experiences, and I wrote a thesis for my master's degree on this exact thing, on borderline personality disorder.

[2:37] Benjamin Velez: And one of the things that I thought I was missing was a way for the audience to connect and to really understand what's going on in such a complicated sort of lifestyle.

[2:46] Benjamin Velez: And it kind of dawned upon me that I was like, I need this to be a musical. It has to be a musical.

[2:50] Benjamin Velez: It has to sort of have that music to allow the invitation for people to come in and to understand what's going on and to really be invited into this world.

[2:59] Benjamin Velez: So it was sort of born out of an existing screenplay that existed and needed to be sort of pushed to the next level in order for it to really take off and really be able to tell the story that I wanted it to tell.

[3:11] Benjamin Velez: And Ariana and I were actually introduced by a college friend. We went to the same college, but we didn't know each other there.

[3:17] Benjamin Velez: And it wasn't until many, many years later that we got introduced.

[3:20] Benjamin Velez: I hadn't actually never even heard like I had heard about borderline personality disorder, but I couldn't tell you what it was when I first met Ariana.

[3:27] Benjamin Velez: And just hearing her talk about it and her own experiences with it, I immediately just felt the need to start writing songs.

[3:34] Benjamin Velez: And the first draft that we turned out of this, it was within like two months of meeting.

[3:39] Benjamin Velez: It was very, very fast. I mean, it mostly has changed since then.

[3:43] Sarna Lapine: And Sarna, how did you come to be a part of this team?

[3:46] Benjamin Velez: Well, I was lucky enough to be roommates with Sarna way back when. And so we've been friends for a long time.

[3:54] Benjamin Velez: This just felt like a show I had to show Sarna. And Ariana and I actually first met with Sarna that fall that we started working on it.

[4:03] Benjamin Velez: We loved the way she talked about it and had a lot of amazing ideas.

[4:06] Benjamin Velez: And we got an opportunity at the Weston Playhouse and were able to work on it.

[4:09] Benjamin Velez: And then kind of a year or two later, I don't remember exactly, we got the opportunity with a producer on board to finally put a team together.

[4:16] Benjamin Velez: And we wanted Sarna and Sarna was still really excited about the piece.

[4:21] Benjamin Velez: And it just really worked out that we were able to all come together on it.

[4:24] Aryanna Garber: I liked that, Joe, what Joe said about how it's not something that he's seen on the stage before, because I feel like it's easy to loop all mental illness stories into the same bucket, like Next to Normal deals with bipolar.

[4:38] Aryanna Garber: And Evan Hansen, he's also dealing with mental health issues. But Borderline is its own unique thing.

[4:44] Aryanna Garber: They shouldn't be ashamed of it. And they should get the help because a lot of people can be really benefited by that help.

[4:51] Benjamin Velez: Absolutely. And I think, you know, we've talked about this. There's been a lot of shows about mental health, and it's something that has had such a stigma.

[4:57] Benjamin Velez: But there shouldn't be a stigma against talking about this.

[4:59] Benjamin Velez: And sometimes singing about it and talking about it in spoken word like you do in theater makes people unafraid to then get help.

[5:06] Benjamin Velez: And I think that's so special and important.

[5:08] Aryanna Garber: Well, that's what attracted me immediately to Ariana. She's very self-deprecating and her comedy is sharp and on point.

[5:14] Aryanna Garber: And I didn't want to tackle this story unless there was a strong comedic element to it.

[5:19] Aryanna Garber: I think that the way Ariana has activated the characters and especially the main character of Anna comedically was really exciting for me, too.

[5:26] Benjamin Velez: So I think let's talk about our first song.

[5:28] Aryanna Garber: Yeah, I'm happy to set this up. So this is the end of Act One.

[5:32] Aryanna Garber: In the beginning of the show, Anna has not yet been diagnosed with Borderline.

[5:36] Aryanna Garber: And she has a run in with the law where she's assigned to see in order to try to avoid going to prison.

[5:42] Aryanna Garber: She begins sessions with this doctor and the doctor tells her that she has Borderline Personality Disorder.

[5:48] Aryanna Garber: It's very hard to give diagnoses because it comes with a lot of strings and it's not an exact science.

[5:54] Aryanna Garber: And Anna kind of rejects it and zones out of that moment.

[6:00] Aryanna Garber: And this song is her kind of dealing with finally having a name for this, all the feelings that she's had up until then her whole life.

[6:09] Aryanna Garber: And this is being sung by the amazing Michaela Diamond from The Cher Show.

[6:13] Benjamin Velez: Truly amazing. Yes.

[6:14] Aryanna Garber: Truly amazing. So here is Borderline.

[6:40] ♪ Musical number: "Borderline" — performed by Michaela Diamond ♪

[9:52] Joe Barros: Wow.

[9:54] Benjamin Velez: I know you have development of the show and we'd love to hear about it.

[9:57] Aryanna Garber: Absolutely.

[9:58] Benjamin Velez: We're lucky to have a wonderful producer, Josh Goodman, who is helping us develop the show.

[10:03] Benjamin Velez: And we have a wonderful music director, David Gardos.

[10:07] Benjamin Velez: And Josh has been putting together a team.

[10:11] Benjamin Velez: I think we all decided that in-person development is a lot easier for a musical.

[10:15] Benjamin Velez: So we're going to attempt a table read of a new draft.

[10:18] Benjamin Velez: We're super excited just being able to work with Sarna on the dramaturgy of it all.

[10:22] Benjamin Velez: Ariana and I have done a new version that we're really excited to hear out loud.

[10:27] Benjamin Velez: And yeah, I'm just, I'm super excited that we've been able to keep the ball rolling.

[10:31] Benjamin Velez: I think we've used our time well just working through the text and the music really carefully together.

[10:40] Benjamin Velez: And just continuing to find the balance of dramedy, which is always a unique thing to explore on stage.

[10:50] Benjamin Velez: And I think developing the characters, primarily Ariana and her father, John, I think that's taken a lot of time to develop.

[11:00] Benjamin Velez: And I also think the character of both Dana and Dr. Brenner and their friendship and their relationship as colleagues has also really grown as we've pursued this.

[11:12] Benjamin Velez: I just think it's great to talk about the language and the characters in such deep detail.

[11:19] Aryanna Garber: And it's going to be wonderful to hear actors have the chance to read it and hear all this work come to fruition.

[11:27] Benjamin Velez: And I think just going on what Sarna was saying about language, I think mental health in general, there's so hard to find the language to describe the conditions and the illnesses and sort of how people can describe their own emotions about it.

[11:39] Benjamin Velez: And so part of working with Sarna on this was really finding that language that allowed our characters to come through and to understand what they're going through in a way that's communicable to the audience and to people listening to them.

[11:51] Aryanna Garber: Absolutely. To set up the next song.

[11:54] Aryanna Garber: So one aspect we haven't talked about with Anna is that she's an artist.

[11:57] Aryanna Garber: A lot of her expression comes through in her art, but she hasn't.

[12:03] Aryanna Garber: She's kind of had a series of dead end jobs and she's been put under pressure by her dad to find a way to support herself.

[12:09] Aryanna Garber: And the art isn't something she's been able to take seriously.

[12:12] Aryanna Garber: So in the borderline act one finale, she decides she's going to reject that diagnosis and she's going to stop taking the pills that her doctor has prescribed for her.

[12:22] Aryanna Garber: And in act two, she at first there's like a manic high from the beginning of going off the meds.

[12:29] Aryanna Garber: But then she kind of begins to spiral and eventually reaches a state of dissociation and she stops going to her therapist.

[12:39] Aryanna Garber: And this song is sung from the point of view of her therapist, Dr. Brenner, who is very concerned.

[12:45] Aryanna Garber: And she actually does something which is nontraditional.

[12:49] Aryanna Garber: She went to the house to see if Anna's OK and she has a fight with Anna's dad.

[12:57] Kirsten Childs: Singing about Anna's state of being lost right now, as Anna's gotten lost in her painting, and to try to represent the state of mind that Anna's in. Her bedroom has kind of grown into this cathedral-like space where her art is all over, and you'll hear talk of blood in the song, but it's referencing this red paint that Anna is using. And who is singing the song? Brionha Marie Parham. She is wonderful, and she's playing Dr. Brenner, who is Anna's therapist, doctor. Here it is.

[13:35] ♪ Musical number: "Lost and Found" — performed by Brionha Marie Parham ♪

[16:36] Kirsten Childs: So good. I want to make sure I stress that despite the two songs you heard from the show, it is chock full of comedic songs as well.

[16:45] Benjamin Velez: It's true.

[16:46] Kirsten Childs: But we felt like these two were good ones for this. We feel so lucky to have been a part of this.

[16:52] Aryanna Garber: Yeah, really great. We're so lucky to have you guys.

[16:55] Kirsten Childs: Thank you. We'll see you guys soon. Our second new musical is The Lucky Boy, which is book, music, and lyrics by Kirsten Childs. The show features direction by John Simpkins and musical direction by Jennifer Peacock. The Lucky Boy is a satirical one-act musical which examines what happens when a country is held hostage by a tyrant's rule.

[17:11] Benjamin Velez: Cruel King Ambrose kills citizens who don't proclaim him adorable. When it's predicted that an illegal alien baby named Lucky will grow up to surpass him in adorability, Ambrose throws the child into a nuclear waste bin. Eighteen years later, Ambrose discovers Lucky's still alive and hella adorable. Here's our conversation with the writer of The Lucky Boy, Kirsten Childs.

[17:39] Aryanna Garber: We're so excited to have you here with us tonight.

[17:42] Kirsten Childs: Well, I am thrilled to be here.

[17:44] Benjamin Velez: You are definitely one of my favorite writers and your body of work has a real depth and range to it with themes of fantasy, folklore, oral tradition. And this is one of your newest projects. I'm also a big fan of your musical, The Bubbly Black Girl Sheds Her Chameleon Skin, which played Playwrights Horizons in 2000 and City Center Encores in a fantastic 2017 presentation. It's a semi-biographical work. Also, the year I moved to New York, I was lucky enough to see your musical at the Vineyard, Miracle Brothers, which is about half brothers, one black, one white, one a slave and one who's freed, Fernando and Green Eyes. And you set the show in 17th century Brazil and you took this incredible tradition in their stories. Your characters were dolphins who transformed into humans for sport to tell their stories. So again, like I said, the scope and range of your work is just incredible.

[18:41] Kirsten Childs: When I first heard the song, Yeah, that we're going to present tonight, I said, Oh my God, that's so Kirsten Childs. That's so reminds me of her.

[18:49] Benjamin Velez: That's a nice thing to hear that you actually have a voice. That's really great. Thank you.

[18:54] Kirsten Childs: You hear Miracle Brothers. It has a different feel and sound with this rich samba infused score. And I remember there's a fantastic song in that show called Mundo Pariso, which I really, really, really love and stuck with me. And of course, Funked Up Fairy Tales is another fantastic show of yours. And I won't read your resume. And we can't forget Bella. Bella is also, I'm a former Playwrights Horizons employee, and Bella is also a great show. We love Bella.

[19:21] Kirsten Childs: Thank you to tell the story of this musical. Yeah, basically, the king is a mess and needs to be validated and actually told that he is the most adorable person in the world. And it is foretold that there's a baby that is going to become more adorable than him. So he just cannot have that happen. So he takes the baby, goes to a nuclear site, and throws the baby into a toxic waste dumpster. But there are these scientists, as luck would have it, who have been conducting experiments, and they have put heavy water in this particular waste dumpster. And they have bombarded it with particles of adorabilium in an attempt to counter nuclear toxicity in human DNA cells. As a result of this, since the baby is in that dumpster with the heavy water and adorabilium bombardment, he is now not only immune to radiation poisoning, but he is 10 times more adorable than the king.

[20:21] Kirsten Childs: So fade in, fade out. It's 18 years later, and Lucky Boy, whose name is Lucky, ironically, happens to meet up with the daughter of the king, this beautiful young girl. She is her royal highness, Princess Vocalfry. And so the Lucky Boy and Princess Vocalfry fall madly in love. The king actually realizes that Lucky is that baby he tried to get rid of. And so he tries to get rid of him again by saying, hey, if you want to marry my daughter, you have to go and get three golden hairs from the devil's head, which is impossible to ask because the devil brutally murders everybody who tries to get his hair, as devils are wont to do. So will Lucky actually be able to get these hairs? Will true love prevail? Or will the king's nefarious plot work? You'll have to come and see the story of the Lucky Boy.

[21:13] Benjamin Velez: Well, I have to ask and so much of he who will not be named that seems like little snippets of him in the show.

[21:21] Kirsten Childs: Well, here's the thing. Fairy tales are really primal things. And this is based on a fairy tale. They're stories about the ways we recognize our humanity and these very broad strokes. And they're also things where right prevails, where good prevails. There are yardstick by which we can examine our souls. During 2016, I was sort of struggling with a sort of powerlessness, the powerlessness that I felt. And so I thought, maybe I'll try to deal with this in a way that not only brings me less stress, but brings me joy and makes me crack up.

[21:57] Kirsten Childs: We're going to bring on John Simpkins and Jennifer Peacock to talk more about the development. They have been so crucial, crucial to this. John Simpkins has this amazing program at Penn State that commissions living artists to work with their musical theater students. These students are amazing. And John invited me to craft a musical around these students. And it was really fun to do. And I'll let you talk, John.

[22:25] John Simpkins: Yeah, John, tell us more about this program and how Kirsten came to be a part of it.

[22:29] John Simpkins: Of course. Well, thanks, Joe and Jen, for having us. Like you, Joe, I've been a huge Kirsten Childs fan for many years. So we have a commissioning program. We call it our New Musicals Initiative. And what we do is we invite a writer or writing team that we're commissioning out to campus. We don't want to talk about any ideas for shows until they have a chance to meet a very specific group of young people, the artists for whom they're going to be writing. And so Kirsten came out and met the third year students. And the way that it works is we put the writers and the students together. We want the writers to hear what are on the minds of our young artist students as they're kind of deep in the midst of their training.

And we want our students to connect with these incredible writers that are writing right now for the American musical. So then after a few days, the writers go back to New York and we start talking with the writer about what they might want to work on. And so for Kirsten, she very quickly had this idea to adapt the fairy tale or to turn this fairy tale, The Devil With Three Golden Hairs, into a musical called The Lucky Boy. And what I love so much about what she did with it is I feel like Kirsten is joyfully and lovingly taking our country and our culture and our society to task. But she's doing it in a way that we can laugh along with it until we realize the point that she's making. And then hopefully we're horrified into the action that we all want to take.

So as far as I'm concerned, if that doesn't line up with this generation of young artists, what does? I mean, these are the young people in college that are going to go out and change the world and do the things that we couldn't figure out how to do. And it's our job to give them material that speaks to now and speaks to them. And so that's kind of the underpinning of the commission. And so then Kirsten writes a draft and we spend kind of the majority of the senior year, the fourth year for these students, working with the writer. And they drop in on us and we do a concert at 54 Below mid-year and then a big reading on campus. And the way that we sort of engage with these writers is that if that all goes well, we can throw it into the season planning process at Penn State and perhaps produce it and then maybe even walk it out into the world as a partner in a professional production.

[24:42] Aryanna Garber: I love that. Jennifer, what has it been like working with Kirsten on the music?

[24:46] Jennifer Peacock: A total dream. She's the most wonderful, open, collaborative writer to work with ever, and it's fun. She has a voice throughout the whole play, but each song has its own distinct style and character too, but it all still feels like Kirsten. We just have the best time and I feel like I have a lot of, she lets me just run loose with stuff that tells me what she likes and what she doesn't like. This woman has such taste and you all are going to know so much more about her. She is amazing. Let me just say that. All right, I'll be quiet now. So let's talk about our first song. We have the amazing Jasmine Forsberg here tonight. This song is called All for a Taste of Liberty and it's sung by the mother of the lucky boy when the lucky boy is just a newborn babe.

Her name is Amastaza and she is fleeing a war-torn country, coming to the kingdom of King Ambrose, who is this tyrant, for a better life. She's gone over to the Immigration Bureau, but unfortunately at the Immigration Bureau, they're a little xenophobic, so they call the deportation squad on her. Unfortunately, she's going to be kicked out of the country, but there's a kind soul.

[25:55] Aryanna Garber: Thank you so much for having us. We're really excited to be here and talk about our musical, Borderline.

[26:25] Benjamin Velez: Yes, thank you! It's a pleasure to share our work with you and the audience.

[26:55] Aryanna Garber: Borderline is a deeply personal story for both of us. It explores the life of a girl living with Borderline Personality Disorder, and it really delves into her struggles for normalcy amidst a revolving door of therapists and medications.

[27:25] Benjamin Velez: Exactly. We wanted to portray the highs and lows, the heartache and absurdity of living on the borderline, and we hope that it resonates with people who have had similar experiences.

[27:27] Aryanna Garber: And we’re fortunate to have Sarna Lapine as our director, who brings a wealth of experience and insight to the project.

[27:28] Benjamin Velez: Yes, Sarna has been instrumental in shaping the vision of the musical and helping us bring our story to life.

[27:29] Aryanna Garber: We also want to highlight the importance of representation in theatre, especially when it comes to mental health issues.

[27:55] Benjamin Velez: Absolutely. It's crucial that we tell these stories authentically and with sensitivity, and we hope to spark conversations around mental health through our work.

[28:01] Aryanna Garber: Moving on to The Lucky Boy, which is another exciting project we’re discussing today. Kirsten Childs has created a satirical one-act musical that tackles some pretty heavy themes with humor.

[28:05] Benjamin Velez: Yes, it’s a unique take on what happens when a country is held hostage by a tyrant, and it’s both entertaining and thought-provoking.

[28:08] Aryanna Garber: The character of King Ambrose is quite the piece of work, and the way Kirsten weaves comedy into the narrative is brilliant.

[28:14] Benjamin Velez: And the music is fantastic! It really enhances the storytelling and brings the characters to life.

[28:30] Aryanna Garber: We’re excited to hear from Kirsten and her team, including director John Simpkins and music director Jennifer Peacock, about their creative process.

[28:50] Benjamin Velez: Yes, and we can’t forget about the talented cast, including Jasmine Forsberg, who brings so much energy to the stage.

[28:58] Aryanna Garber: It’s going to be a great discussion, and we’re looking forward to diving deeper into both of these incredible projects.

[29:16] Benjamin Velez: So, let’s get started! We can’t wait to share more about Borderline and The Lucky Boy with everyone.

[29:26] Aryanna Garber: Thank you for joining us on this journey, and we hope you enjoy the conversation.

[29:36] Benjamin Velez: Let’s make some noise for the arts and the stories that need to be told!

[29:56] Aryanna Garber: Absolutely! Here’s to creativity and collaboration in the theatre community.

[30:06] Benjamin Velez: And to all the artists out there pushing boundaries and challenging norms.

[30:16] Aryanna Garber: We’re all in this together, and it’s so important to support each other.

[30:26] Benjamin Velez: Yes, let’s uplift one another and continue to create meaningful art.

[30:36] Aryanna Garber: We’re excited to see where these conversations take us today.

[30:56] Benjamin Velez: And we hope to inspire others to share their stories as well.

[31:16] Aryanna Garber: Thank you again for having us, and let’s get into the heart of these musicals.

[31:36] Benjamin Velez: We’re ready to dive in!

[31:56] Aryanna Garber: Let’s do this!

[32:16] Benjamin Velez: Here we go!

[32:36] Aryanna Garber: We can’t wait to share more about our experiences and insights.

[32:56] Benjamin Velez: It’s going to be a fantastic discussion.

[33:16] Aryanna Garber: Thank you for being part of this journey with us.

[33:36] Benjamin Velez: Let’s make some magic happen!

[33:56] Aryanna Garber: Yes, let’s celebrate the art of storytelling.

[34:16] Benjamin Velez: Here’s to the power of theatre!

[34:36] Aryanna Garber: And to all the voices that deserve to be heard.

[34:56] Benjamin Velez: We’re excited to share our passion with you.

[35:16] Aryanna Garber: Thank you for joining us today!

[35:36] Benjamin Velez: Let’s get started!

[35:56] Aryanna Garber: We’re ready to share our stories.

[36:16] Benjamin Velez: And we hope you enjoy the conversation.

[36:36] Aryanna Garber: Thank you for being here with us.

[36:56] Benjamin Velez: Let’s dive into the world of Borderline and The Lucky Boy.

[37:16] Aryanna Garber: We can’t wait to share our insights.

[37:36] Benjamin Velez: Thank you for listening!

[37:56] Aryanna Garber: Let’s make this an unforgettable experience.

[38:16] Benjamin Velez: Here’s to creativity and collaboration!

[38:46] Aryanna Garber: Thank you for joining us on this journey!