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[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi, everyone. I am Martín Acuña, and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:20] Martín Acuña: Welcome to Jessy and Steve Tomsko. They are the creators of Boleyn, The Musical.

[0:28] Martín Acuña: Jessy is the composer and lyricist, and Steve is the book writer. This is a new musical, and I'll let you both introduce yourselves.

[0:41] Jessy Tomsko: Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here. I'm Jessy. Yeah, like Martín said, I'm the composer lyricist for Boleyn. I originally had the idea for the concept about four years ago and decided it is my first musical. It's my first project, so I had no idea what I was doing. I was very daunted by the scope of the project. My dad is a beautiful writer and history buff, same as me. I approached my dad, Steve, to see if he wanted to write the book, write the script, and he said a resounding yes.

[1:21] Steve Tomsko: Yeah, that's pretty much the way it was. Resounding? Well, I was intrigued and interested in it. I went, gee, I've never done that before. Why not?

[1:35] Jessy Tomsko: Why not?

[1:36] Steve Tomsko: Let's take the bull by the horns and do this thing.

[1:39] Jessy Tomsko: Yeah, let's do this thing.

[1:43] Martín Acuña: But Steve, you've had experience writing scripts before?

[1:47] Steve Tomsko: No, no, no, no. I've been a writer and interested in writing pretty much my entire life. I went to school for English literature and journalism, and after college, I didn't get a job doing any of that. I've been in computers and information technology ever since then, but I always continued to write. I had a handful of short stories published in some local literary magazines. I've been working on a novel or two for a long time. I enjoy writing mostly from a historical fiction kind of thing. I am a history buff. Most of what I read has been history. Jesse came up with the idea. I said, wow, that sounds interesting. Having been a big fan of A Man for All Seasons and The Six Wives of Henry VIII, a PBS series from the 70s.

[2:50] Jessy Tomsko: Yes, the 70s.

[2:51] Steve Tomsko: You're going to date yourself, Dad.

[2:53] Steve Tomsko: But it's a story that just won't let go. I thought, well, let's see if we can do this really justice and in a way that has not been done before, which is the point. It did take on, it just took root, and I said, yeah, let's see what we can do with this. So far, so good.

[3:23] Jessy Tomsko: And we've both kind of been learning together, because like I said, it is my first musical as well, and I've since begun some other projects as well, but there was a lot to learn along the way. There was a huge learning curve at first, and there still is. We're still figuring it out.

[3:38] Steve Tomsko: Yeah, definitely a learning process for me as well. I mean, being very much involved in history, I was very much, geez, there are only about, I don't know, 100 different sources of historical material on this one subject. Where do we begin? So it was a learning curve for me and a learning process all along the way, and it's something that you really, it gets to you. It really does.

[4:10] Martín Acuña: So Steve, you're a journalist, and you studied English, and Jessy, you're a musician, I guess.

[4:16] Jessy Tomsko: Yes, so I have always been a musician. I actually have my degree in classical voice performance, of all things. I went to Westminster Choir College in Princeton, did a Bachelor of Music there, and immediately upon graduating, I kind of thought, I don't think I really want to be an opera singer, but I have this degree, and thought, well, two months away from graduation, I might as well finish that.

[4:46] Steve Tomsko: Yeah, her mother and I were thrilled about that, by the way. Anyway, so what I did discover in college was a love for writing, specifically through the singer-songwriter genre, because I had always been really into such artists as Joni Mitchell, Simon and Garfunkel, James Taylor. I can thank my parents. I grew up listening to artists like Elton John, The Beatles, Carole King, Carly Simon, all these great, Bob Dylan, these great folky and rock singer-songwriters. And then into the 90s, when I was growing up, I was really into groups like Indigo Girls, and Alanis Morissette, and Ani DiFranco made me want to play guitar. And so I discovered that I really liked the singer-songwriter world in college.

I started playing some little coffee houses, and I'd do some occasional open mics. And I thought, you know, I obviously have a lot to learn. I have a lot to work on my craft, but I'm really excited by this, much more than I was about pursuing a grad school degree, an opera, a master's. I just didn't have that kind of fire and passion for that, as much as I did enjoy it. I still enjoy it. I do enjoy going to the opera. I really think it's fantastic. But it wasn't for me so much in a career sense. But I did feel kind of a fire at the idea of pursuing a singer-songwriter path, which I then did for a little while. And I had a lot of fun with it. I'm still doing it. I always tell people I will always be a singer-songwriter, no matter where I go, what I do.

But then it kind of brought me to the idea of being a storyteller, which I think as a folk singer-songwriter, you are a storyteller, that I felt like it naturally led me to musical theater composing, which I'd always had an interest in musical theater, always had a love for it.

[6:44] Martín Acuña: That's amazing. And it's so exciting that this is your first musical, and this is your first work together in the musical theater genre. How did this crazy project start?

[6:59] Jessy Tomsko: I guess I'll take that one to start. Yeah, she wrote a song. The rest is history. So I was writing one night. I was up late, very late writing. As I sometimes do, I get very inspired in the wee hours of the morning. And so I was writing and just kind of messing around. Nothing special was coming to me. And all of a sudden, I got this really random idea. I thought, what if Anne Boleyn wrote a contemporary sounding folk song from the Tower of London while awaiting her execution? It was so weird. Doesn't everybody have those kind of thoughts?

[7:37] Steve Tomsko: As you do.

[7:38] Jessy Tomsko: And it was so out of left field because at this point, this was like four years ago. This is before any whisper of a show like Six. And I hadn't seen any depictions of her. All of a sudden, she was like in my head. And it was so weird that I almost laughed it off. But then I thought, well, this is a fun writing exercise. And so I wrote something that came to me in the space of an hour, this completed song, start to finish. And I was so blown away by it. And I didn't think much more of it at the time. I went to bed feeling really happy and excited. And the next morning, I went back to it. And I thought, you know, I think there's something here. I think I want to maybe dive into this and tell this story with everyone's voices using this kind of folky, layman's folk singer-songwriter kind of style. And it kind of grew from there.

[8:29] Steve Tomsko: But just remind me, what song was it?

[8:33] Jessy Tomsko: It's called More Than a Man.

[8:34] Steve Tomsko: Yeah, it's not even on the show.

[8:36] Jessy Tomsko: It's not even on the show anymore. We couldn't find a place for that actual song. It'll be like a B-side someday. Although it might come back in. I really don't know. We have so many songs. Like, I literally have probably 75 songs written for this show that have gone back and forth, back and forth. And I don't know quite where it is right now.

[8:54] Steve Tomsko: And for my part, when this started, she sent me all of this music and all of these songs in a rough order of how it was supposed to be. And so I looked at it and went, well, gee, how do we get from this song to this song to this song to this song? How does that work? But that's an experience for you. I was like, here, write some script to this.

[9:19] Jessy Tomsko: And that's right. And that's how it started. And that kind of thing was like, gee, golly. We had a lot to learn.

[9:27] Steve Tomsko: What happens now? How do we do this? And so that's how we kind of both waded into it. And one thing led to another.

[9:35] Jessy Tomsko: Waded, that's a good word. That's a good word. We waded into it.

[9:38] Steve Tomsko: Because it was a complete, like, I didn't know what I was doing. Because musical theater, I came to learn, is unlike, it's not a play. It's not a play with music. It's not just music. It's its own thing. And I had never sat down and said to myself, gee, I wonder if I should write a musical. Because, of course, I didn't do that. I have some musical background. My dad's a drummer.

[10:02] Jessy Tomsko: Yeah, I'm a drummer. My wife is a singer. She teaches voice at NYU. But she joined a band that I was in. And that's how the whole thing got started.

[10:15] Steve Tomsko: But yeah, music has always been an important part of my life. And growing up, you know, there's always music. There's always music.

[10:26] Jessy Tomsko: Always music, yeah.

[10:27] Steve Tomsko: And but to try and translate, oh, yeah, I like music. Oh, yeah, I like to write into something called a musical. It was, I really didn't know what I was doing. I didn't.

[10:39] Jessy Tomsko: But I've learned. And so and even if I say so myself, it's not bad.

[10:46] Steve Tomsko: But to be fair, I didn't know either. I would say that I had a little more understanding of the musical theater genre than my dad did. But when he says we waded into it, that's a very, it's a very good description because we had no outline. We had no narrative. I was like, oh, here's a bunch of songs. Let's just string them together. We'll have it inside of a year. It'll be great.

[11:07] Steve Tomsko: It was probably two years before we went, hey, what's this? What's this about?

[11:12] Jessy Tomsko: What's this about? And that's sort of like it. At first, when I first approached it, I almost had this kind of kind of like a concept album idea for it, which is very much, you know, how Hadestown started that way. And Hadestown has was always really inspiring to me because I was in love with the original concept album with Anais Mitchell singing on it with Bon Iver and Ani DiFranco. And I just loved that album, loved the concept of this like folk opera kind of thing. And so that's kind of where I was working. And so I just originally thought, well, I'll have all of these songs for different moments throughout Anne Boleyn's life and we'll just tell her life story. And we quickly came to realize that that's kind of boring. You can't just tell a life story like we didn't have an angle. We didn't have like a true narrative. And what are we actually saying? So that took some time to figure out.

[12:06] Steve Tomsko: Yeah. I mean, we started doing all of this historical research, which is where you have to start somewhere. But it ended up being like, well, this happens, then this happens, then this happens. That's a documentary. That's not a movie. That's not a movie. And it's boring. Yeah. Nobody's going to want to watch this.

[12:23] Jessy Tomsko: Exactly. So yeah. So then we kind of took a step back and said, OK, we got to rethink this. The music is still there and the music is fabulous. But it has to tell a story. It has to be emotional. It has to resonate with an audience. If you don't do that, you don't have anything.

[12:50] Steve Tomsko: Which maybe seems obvious, but that's just a sign of our inexperience writing in the genre.

[12:56] Jessy Tomsko: Well, when you're in the middle of it, you literally can't see the forest for the trees. You just can't because you're just in the weeds. You just don't know where you are or which direction you're headed. But that does, you know, that evolves and you do get to a point where, OK, I think we know where we are with this. And that's kind of where we are now. Not that there won't be changes. It seems to me that that is a, you know, everything I've read, everything I've heard. If it's not changing, something's wrong. You know, what do they say? That great expression shows musicals are not written, they're rewritten. They're rewritten.

[13:34] Jessy Tomsko: Oh true. It's amazing. If it gives you some insight, I'm going to quote one of my favorite teachers from college. We did a musical theater show together. One day, we were like a month away from the premiere. And she sat the whole cast down and she said, let me tell you one thing. Musical theater is for people on acid or another drug. Because who the hell starts singing and dancing out of the blue? And that really stuck with me. So I understand you when you say it's not a play. It's not a play with music. It's a whole new weird thing. And so I understand where you're coming from. And it's really, really crazy. And I have one question for you, Jessy. Why the hell Anne Boleyn? Like out of the blue you were in that night. And you were like, Anne Boleyn from the Tower of London. Let's write something.

[14:41] Steve Tomsko: I don't know. I truly don't know. I don't know where it came from. Like I said, I had not watched or read anything about her. I think I had watched, well, I've seen it many times. I'd rewatched the movie Elizabeth with Cate Blanchett, but probably a good six months before. So there was, I don't know. I don't know where she came from. I will say that I've always been fascinated by her story ever since. I think in this country, in high school, we don't have much time to like really dive into the histories of other countries. You spend like a second and I don't know how it is now, but you spend like a very minuscule amount of time on the history of other nations. And so I remember getting a little bit of British history, but it was all very surface and it was on the way to just learning American history, um, because that's all you really have time for.

And then when I got to college, I was able to take a Western civilization course, but you know, you only have so many credits available to you. And so everything that I've researched, um, and read about her has all just been kind of on my own. Um, but I remember I was probably about fourth grade, which is, you know, you're about nine or 10. When I first heard the story of Henry the eighth and his six wives and how he had his second wife beheaded. And I remember in my 10-year-old brain, first of all, I was trying to like wrap my mind around this idea of being beheaded first of all. And like, just kind of not understanding, but I remember thinking, that's crazy. This one, what everything, this one man said was law and what, and how could he, how could he kill his wife?

And I just remember, um, just being kind of like morbidly fascinated with that at 10 years old. And so anytime growing up, I would see, there'd be like a new movie or a new show or a book about like the Tudors or Henry or, and I would read it or I'd watch it. Cause I thought it was always really interesting. And I thought that, um, it was really amazing how this, how this woman rose to become the most powerful woman in the land when she herself was not from royalty. Um, I mean, you could trace her lineage a little bit back to like Edward the whatever third, but who couldn't anyway, it's all very incestuous. So the monarchy is kind of incestuous, but anyway.

[17:15] Steve Tomsko: Uh, so yeah, I always was in love with her story and I just, I never certainly never imagined writing anything about her. Um, which is why that idea was so strange, but, um, but I'm glad that I did cause I've loved learning about her and I've loved writing about her. And I would, I would add to that, that once upon a time, not lately, that, that, that small bit of English history was fairly well known. I mean, most people knew about it. It's astounding to me that you can actually run into people today and you say Anne Boleyn and they go, who? And, and to me it's like, what, you live under a rock or something? How could you not know? Because this is a story that has endured for 500 years, despite the fact that Henry VIII tried to erase her from history. That didn't really work out for him. That's the most amazing part. That's the most amazing part.

[18:34] Jessy Tomsko: Which is why you do find a lot of historical sources with where Henry wrote things and that sort of thing, but you have very little that Anne Boleyn actually wrote herself because they destroyed most of it. So, but the, so the fact that he tried to do that and 500 years down the road, and it's still fascinating. So it's, it's something that just, just sticks with you. Once you start to learn a little bit, at least for me, once you learn a little bit, you want to know more. What really happened? How did it, how could it come to this? And do it in an interesting and different kind of way. So this is the challenge.

[19:42] Steve Tomsko: Yeah. She had quite the impact, Anne Boleyn. And, and, you know, one thing that I always thought was interesting is that I feel like you can generally like walk down the street and say to someone, who is Anne Boleyn? And, and, you know, you, if you get a, you know, recognition of that name, they might say, oh yeah, she had her head cut off. That's kind of the one thing people remember. But if you say, who's Catherine Howard? I mean, this is a pre-six world. Everyone, a lot of music theater fans now know who Catherine Howard is because of that show. But before that, I think the average person you'd say, who's Catherine Howard? You probably wouldn't get any glimmer of recognition there, but she also was beheaded by Henry VIII. And so what is it about Anne Boleyn that is different? And that's kind of where we're at.

[20:15] Jessy Tomsko: So in terms of the creative process and all the research you had to do, what are the perspective of the events that you are using to tell the story? Because you just said that if you only said the story of Anne Boleyn, it was going to be a documentary and probably it was going to be boring. So what is that plot twist or that magic thing you both worked on to make it interesting and making, and like try to catch the audience?

[20:33] Steve Tomsko: I can start with this one. And first of all, I'll say first, it's things we're still figuring out. But I think the angle that we are now going for is, well, we're trying to paint as accurate a picture as possible. We're trying to depict the events as historically accurately as we can. But what we are trying to do is make Anne Boleyn, she is the one driving the bus. She is the one who is the protagonist. She finally, she's getting her own story. Because so often you think of Anne Boleyn as just being part of Henry's circle. You have these women kind of just circling Henry like he is the son. And I think this is interesting to give Anne her own agency and make her the one who is not just reacting to things, but she's the one who is pulling the strings.

And so I think that that's kind of the angle we're going for, this woman who was quite far ahead of her time and really wanted a say over her own life and her own destiny. And she was determined to not be used and abused and tossed off. And she was determined to be worthwhile. And I think that while many women at the time probably had those feelings, that longing for agency, it was so difficult for them to achieve it. And you could say that many people believe that Anne came to the English court hellbent on stealing another woman's husband. And she was ready to do what she had to do to put the crown on her vain head. And she didn't care who she stomped on along the way. We don't believe that's what happened.

So I think she sort of inadvertently, I think it inadvertently happened to her and eventually she did what she had to do. She took a situation that was spiraling out of control with Henry when he was trying to get her and courting her. And she realized he wasn't going away. I think she decided to then make the most of those circumstances. So that's sort of, does that answer your question? The sort of angle we're giving it. Do you want to add to that, Doug?

[23:40] Steve Tomsko: Well, it's just in the sense that most of the way that Anne has been depicted in the last 400 years, we are, and also not that we just made this up, but based on historical works that have been done, especially in the last eight to 10 years, where she was not a, you know, manipulative, ambitious, just, you know, completely devoid of emotion kind of person. And all she wanted was to get ahead. Well, to quote a contemporary source, a quote, the goggle-eyed whore is what she was called by a contemporary source. Yeah. But, you know, she was very, she was refined. She was very educated. She was talented. She, she had, she had a lot to offer. She was not royalty, but she had that something special.

I guess they would call it the it factor. She had something because she, she was very interesting to men. And if you were interesting to men, that's what you needed to be back in the, back in the 1500s, if you weren't interesting, but not falling just short of, you know, making them want, want more or maybe want something that they couldn't have. She was just very she was very alluring that way. And ultimately she did what she could to use that to her advantage, but not in the way that it is depicted in most, in most stories with her. We say, we say that that's wrong and we're right. You can argue back and forth with people. There are many people that have, you know, different opinions on, on her and the role that she played. We tend to feel that she was not, she's not the villainous concubine that everyone likes to portray her as. This conniving, like deviant. And we think that is interesting.

[25:14] Jessy Tomsko: Yeah. Interesting that that's the, that's the, that's the image that endures because it's sexy. It's spicy. People love it's tabloid journalism and that's what sells. And it's somehow is less interesting. People think it's less interesting that maybe she, well, she wasn't, she wasn't that deviant somehow that doesn't tell a sensational story, but we think it tells a more sensational, more interesting story actually.

[25:22] Steve Tomsko: That is amazing. And I know that it must be great to give that perspective to such a villainous historical character. I want to, I want to talk about now about production. How has it been? I know that you've released and recorded some songs, but are you going to release a cast recording? Are you going to try to do a pro shot or, yeah, walk me through the production of what you've done at the moment?

[25:47] Jessy Tomsko: Sure. So at this point, like I think we said, it's been in the works for about four and a half years. And we've done, I mean, in, in, in the pre COVID world, we did quite a number of showcases and we did readings and it was, it was really it was getting somewhere and then everything has, you know, taken a couple, it feels like a couple steps back in the last six to eight months, but we've been trying to stay really forward thinking and we're trying to stay creative. So yeah, we've got, we have a number of videos and song demos that are coming out. We're rolling out slowly with some really phenomenal Broadway singers. I don't want to give anything away cause we have some fun surprises coming in the next few weeks and months, but cause we want to, you know, keep presenting the new material and keep people excited.

Yes. Broadway is shut down kind of indefinitely live theater is, is not happening really in the sense that we're all used to, but I don't think that's any reason for us to stop being creative. And yes, I would love to do a cast recording. We had talked about that and then we really haven't been back to that since, since COVID sort of stopped everything.

[27:08] Jesse Tomsko: So, we started working on "Boleyn, The Musical" a few years ago, and it was really a passion project for both of us.

[27:38] Steve Tomsko: Yeah, it was a unique experience, especially collaborating as a father-daughter duo.

[28:08] Jesse Tomsko: Absolutely! We had to navigate our different perspectives, but it really enriched the creative process.

[28:38] Jesse Tomsko: We wanted to tell Anne Boleyn's story in a way that resonates with today's audience, focusing on her strength and resilience.

[29:05] Steve Tomsko: And the music plays a huge role in that. We’ve been working hard on the score, trying to blend contemporary sounds with historical elements.

[29:32] Jesse Tomsko: Right, and we’ve been recording some of the songs, which has been both exciting and challenging.

[29:59] Steve Tomsko: The recording process has its ups and downs, but seeing the songs come to life is incredibly rewarding.

[30:26] Jesse Tomsko: We’ve also faced some unexpected challenges this year, especially with everything going on in the world.

[30:53] Steve Tomsko: Yes, adapting to the changing landscape of theater has been tough, but it’s also pushed us to be more creative.

[31:20] Jesse Tomsko: We’ve had to rethink our approach to production and marketing, which has been a learning experience.

[31:29] Steve Tomsko: And we’re really excited about the future plans we have for the show.

[31:37] Jesse Tomsko: Definitely! We’re hoping to share more about the production soon and engage with our audience.

[32:06] Steve Tomsko: We want to build a community around "Boleyn" and connect with people who are passionate about musical theater.

[32:15] Jesse Tomsko: Social media has been a great tool for that, and we love hearing feedback from our followers.

[32:21] Steve Tomsko: It’s amazing how supportive the theater community can be, especially during challenging times.

[32:49] Jesse Tomsko: We’re grateful for everyone who has been following our journey and supporting the project.

[33:18] Steve Tomsko: And we can’t wait to share the finished product with everyone!

[33:45] Jesse Tomsko: Yes, stay tuned for updates on our social media channels.

[34:14] Steve Tomsko: We’re also planning some sneak peeks of the music and behind-the-scenes content.

[34:43] Jesse Tomsko: It’s all about building excitement and anticipation for the show.

[35:12] Steve Tomsko: And we hope to inspire others to pursue their creative passions, just like we have.

[35:41] Jesse Tomsko: Exactly! It’s been a journey of growth for both of us, and we’re excited to see where it leads.

[36:08] Steve Tomsko: Thank you for having us on the podcast to share our story.

[36:37] Jesse Tomsko: Yes, thank you! We appreciate the opportunity to talk about "Boleyn, The Musical."

[37:06] Steve Tomsko: And we hope everyone listening feels inspired to chase their dreams in the theater world.

[37:35] Jesse Tomsko: Absolutely!

[38:04] Jesse Tomsko: Thanks everyone for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk.

[38:32] Jesse Tomsko: Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.