This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi everyone, I am Martín Acuña and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:16] Martín Acuña: Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Backstage Talk. Today I have a very special episode. This is the first time I will be doing a Tony Prediction episode, and I couldn't think about two better people to be here to do this than the MacDowell twins. I have here with me Connor and Dylan. So you probably know them. They also have a podcast about theater in general, and I look up to both of them so much, personally and professionally, so I am really happy and excited to have both of them. How are you, friends?

[1:01] Connor MacDowell: Hello! Drama! Yes, drama! Thank you so much for having us. This is Connor, for your listeners. I'm the gayer one.

[1:07] Dylan MacDowell: I think you're just the more, you're more expressive when recording. I think I settle into a more, I being Dylan, settle into a more like radio voice when I get on the podcast.

[1:18] Connor MacDowell: I would agree, I would agree. Martín, your words are so sweet. Connor and I adore you, and I'm so glad that we met in real life more recently after being friends online for so long, and it's an honor to be on your podcast with us.

[1:27] Martín Acuña: It is an honor to have you here. So before we start going through the whole Tony Awards ballot, tell us a little bit more about the two of you, because I know your backstory, but not our listeners, so go ahead.

[1:41] Dylan MacDowell: Sure. So as Martín said, Connor and I are twins. We both have lived, or Connor does currently live, in New York City, and from growing up in Ohio where, you know, the Midwest, we fell in love with theater as sort of our window to the outside world in New York City, and after that took our careers to New York. I was working at 54 Below, and Connor worked at the Lyric Theater, where he worked on Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, and then now he works at a Broadway marketing and ad agency called Sereno Coin. We've sort of been able to dip our toes into the theater world in a not performance way, but in a creative way still, and although I'm no longer at 54 Below, during that period of time, Connor and I put all of our gift of gab and our perspectives to the test by creating a podcast called Drama, and it is a theater and pop culture podcast.

[2:36] Connor MacDowell: You literally nailed it, but we interview the stars you know and love, the stars you haven't met yet, and the people who have created your favorite shows both on stage and off. We venture into TV and film as well, and there are long-form interview style episodes where we kind of just chit-chat with our guests, and you hopefully get to know them in a different way than perhaps like a more formal interview that you'd read on a website or something. You're kind of getting tidbits about their life, their career, and also just like who they are and what they've been binge watching that week, or kind of what they did that day. Their dating life might be, or yeah, we center the conversation all around a question called the Ring of Keys moment, which for those of you who haven't seen Fun Home, it's a moment where the character of young Allison sort of hinges her identity upon seeing someone that she sees herself in for the first time, and we've taken that, and it's when you see yourself in the arts and your passion for the first time and sort of get bit by the bug.

And so that we sort of build out into the full conversation, or sometimes it's a smaller part of the conversation, but it's just sort of sometimes a fun starting place. And of course we have plenty of drama throughout, all playful of course, never anything salacious.

[3:50] Martín Acuña: I love that. I still remember one of the first episodes I listened to from your podcast, it was during the pandemic, and I was like, this is so fun. And like since then I have been not only befriending you, but hunting you down to do a recording, because this is the crossover that I needed and I wanted.

[4:13] Connor MacDowell: Oh that's so nice, thank you.

[4:23] Martín Acuña: So yeah, I'm so so happy to have you over here. What would be a random fun fact about the two of you?

[4:31] Dylan MacDowell: Okay, I will say, this one's kind of funny. So being twins with red hair, we always felt that we were very unique. And then when Connor and I were in middle school, our family adopted a pair of dogs, brother and sister dogs, that they were in like the shelter at the same time, and we couldn't separate them. And in many ways they were brother and sister twins. And we entered them in a local dog contest through our city, and their names were Molly and Owen. And we won the category of owners who look most like their dogs, which could be an insult, but to us it was wonderful because they were sweet, redheaded, beautiful. They were sort of like lab shepherd ginger dogs, Molly and Owen, who are no longer with us, but forever in spirit as our look-alike dogs.

[5:22] Connor MacDowell: That's a good one, Dylan. I love that. Well on the topic of twins and sort of like working together, I guess another fun fact that I always say is that when we were little kids, like toddlers, we were child models locally. And we were in ads in the paper, and you know, I think we almost did a commercial, is that right Dylan? And then like we got fired.

[5:41] Dylan MacDowell: So we could have been stars, we could have been stars, but ultimately...

[5:46] Connor MacDowell: Well wait a minute, you already are a star. That's not right there, in your own way. But yeah, you could have been public stars.

[5:53] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, wait Dylan, that's technically also the answer to what was your first job.

[6:00] Dylan MacDowell: Technically, yeah. I never put that together. I don't remember it, but...

[6:06] Martín Acuña: I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, so we have the Tony Awards coming up next week.

[6:18] Connor MacDowell: This week? Next week? We're recording this on the fourth, so yeah, this week.

[6:25] Dylan MacDowell: Let's go category two through category, thinking who will win. Okay, let's start with a play. The nominees are A No Mo', Between Riverside and Crazy, Cost of Living, Fat Ham, and Leopoldstadt.

[6:40] Dylan MacDowell: So, Dylan, give it a shot.

[6:47] Dylan MacDowell: Okay, this one was tough for me, because this category has a few of those plays that have been around, Cost of Living, and Between Riverside and Crazy, that are Pulitzer Prize winners. And I don't know... And Fat Ham. Oh and Fat Ham, yeah. I don't know the history there of what, if every Pulitzer Prize winning play has also won Best Play, but because the only play that's still running that's a Pulitzer Prize winner is Fat Ham, I'm gonna vote for Fat Ham. I have yet to see it, but that would be my choice.

[7:13] Connor MacDowell: Okay.

[7:22] Connor MacDowell: I think it'll be Leopoldstadt. I just have a feeling. Nice. I have a feeling. Okay. It's been running for a while, great reviews, people love it, and it just feels like one of those plays that people will be like, that was the best one. It really was a theater with meaning, an important story. Like what people said about the show that won Best Play last year that's escaped me right now, that was like, about the ExxonMobil thing.

[7:43] Dylan MacDowell: Oh yeah, I forget the name of that too.

[7:53] Connor MacDowell: It's also Tom Stoppard's last play, right? Isn't that what everyone's saying? So maybe they'll award him in his end of times.

[8:05] Dylan MacDowell: I have to go the other way, because I think that maybe Ain't No Mo' has a chance. I know that it had a very limited run on Broadway, but I heard very good reviews. I thought the cast was amazing, and yeah, I think that maybe it will have a chance, I'm crossing fingers. I mean the fact that it was remembered despite having such a short run says that the voters really loved it. So maybe we'll see.

[8:34] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, we'll see. Let's move to musical, because we have Anne Juliet, Kimberly Akimbo, New York, New York, Shucked, and Some Like It Hot.

[8:40] Connor MacDowell: So, Connor, give it a shot.

[8:45] Connor MacDowell: I'm just gonna say, I think it's Kimberly Akimbo. I think it's the best musical of the year. It really captures everything you want in a musical. It's got heart, humor, great performances, fantastic scene transitions. It's set in the 90s and the costumes are all so era-specific, and I just think it's quite pitch perfect in every way. Maybe I'm a little biased because I do work on the show, but I think it will win, and also I think it should win.

[9:16] Dylan MacDowell: Okay. I also just want to say though, my favorite musical of the season is Anne Juliet, and two things can exist at once.

[9:23] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, best and favorite don't always have to be the same thing.

[9:31] Dylan MacDowell: Yes. I will say this is the first year that I loved every single musical nominated for best musical and would go see again tonight if I could, but I have to agree with Connor, Kimberly Akimbo, to me, it felt like the most... I don't have any critiques of it, whereas others, I might have changed something, and I think the team was perfect, but I would say my second favorite, since Connor gave his second favorite, I'm gonna say New York, New York was the other one that I really loved. It just mesmerized me. I just, oh my goodness, I loved it so much, and I know that people were divided on that, but it to me was magical, but I'm gonna vote for Kimberly Akimbo.

[10:08] Connor MacDowell: I have very strong, not strong, like controversial opinions about the nominees in this category, because I was fortunate enough to see them like three days apart each, so I had like all of them really fresh. Obviously, I do think that they are all great pieces of theater. They all have things that I would personally change. Kimberly Akimbo may win, but it's not my choice. My choice would be Shucked. I really enjoyed that show. I really, really enjoyed it. It was funny, it had heart, it had brains. My second runner-up, obviously, would be Anne Juliet. I'm obsessed with that show and obsessed with that cast. What happens to me with Kimberly Akimbo, New York, New York, Some Like It Hot, is they have memorable moments, but it's not a memorable show for me overall, the three of them, so yeah.

[11:27] Connor MacDowell: I love that, and I think Shucked is gonna appeal to people everywhere. I think that it is so funny. I have not talked to anybody that hasn't walked out of it and said, it's a bad musical.

[11:33] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, they love it.

[11:40] Connor MacDowell: Yeah. Let's do Play Revival, because we have The Piano Lesson, A Doll's House, The Sign on Sidney Brustein's Window, and Topdog Underdog.

[11:47] Dylan MacDowell: What are your thoughts, Dylan?

[11:52] Dylan MacDowell: I have only seen two of these. I saw A Doll's House, and I saw Topdog Underdog, and to me, Topdog Underdog was absolutely unreal, and I have to say that one.

[11:59] Connor MacDowell: Okay.

[12:07] Connor MacDowell: I think it'll be A Doll's House, because, well, it's still running, and so is A Sign on Sidney Brustein's Window, but I just think it's everywhere. You walk all around Midtown, you just see Chastain's face everywhere on all of the ads, and it's such a much-loved piece, and I just have a feeling it's gonna be A Doll's House. Even though I didn't love how minimal it was, I do think it'll win.

[12:31] Dylan MacDowell: Okay.

[12:40] Dylan MacDowell: I only saw The Sign on Sidney Brustein's Window from this category, but I do think, and I'm gonna go with Dylan on this one, that Topdog Underdog will probably win this category.

[12:46] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, because even though it closed a while ago, people are still talking about it, and they're still bringing it up, not only the cast or the lead performers, but the whole show.

[13:04] Dylan MacDowell: Let's go to Musical Revival, because we have a lot of good shows on this category. We have Into the Woods, we have Camelot, we have Parade, and we have Sweeney Todd. So, what are your thoughts? What do you think?

[13:16] Connor MacDowell: Oh, I didn't expect that. Yeah, I actually wish, crossing fingers, that Parade wins, because I, and this is a hot take, sorry for this, but I listened to the original cast recording. I didn't know anything about the show, but I listened to the original cast recording, and I was like, I'm not liking it. Like, I love...

[13:45] Connor MacDowell: Jason Robert Brown. I think his music is chaotic. It has a lot of layers and a lot of things going on, which sometimes I love, sometimes I just like push away. But when I went in to see Parade with very low expectations of it, and I loved that theater mind blown. So my wish is Parade.

[14:09] Dylan MacDowell: I agree with you 100%. It to me was so beautifully staged and moving and it felt very timely and prescient for what's going on right now. And although Sweeney and Into the Woods, the other two, which were the Sondheim revivals this season that I absolutely loved, Parade to me, it just was the clear front runner.

[14:37] Connor MacDowell: I think you guys are probably right that Parade's going to win. But I think Into the Woods is the one. It was the moment last summer when it moved from City Center and was out on Broadway. And then they had fun with their rotating iconic Broadway cast members that came in and out. And it was just so electric being in that theater last summer. I have just a very vivid memory, Dylan, of us sitting there in the St. James last July and watching the show. And the audience was so dropped in. The sound design was incredible, which we'll get to later. And it's on tour right now. And it's just so beloved. And I feel like it could be the winner. I think it'll win.

[15:21] Dylan MacDowell: We'll see. We have to come back.

[15:28] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, we have to come back. Let's move into leading performers. So for a play, leading actor, we have Yahya Abdul-Mateen from Top Dog, Underdog. Corey Hawkins, also from Top Dog, Underdog. Sean Hayes from Good Night, Oscar. Stephen McKinley-Henderson from Between Riverside and Crazy. And Wendell Price from Death of a Salesman.

[15:48] Dylan MacDowell: Death of a Salesman. I honestly think that I don't see any of these plays. I know very little about these performers, but I have heard so many good things about Sean Hayes. So I think he's gonna snatch that Tony. Period. I haven't seen it yet, but I heard that he is just out of this world. And I think he's gonna win.

[16:13] Connor MacDowell: I'm aligned. It's due for him to have a Tony as well. So although they were all amazing performances, from what I hear, it's like one of those career defining roles for him. And he's already had some. I think Corey Hawkins had a chance for Top Dog. And I heard that Stephen McKinley-Henderson was incredible in Between Riverside and Crazy, but Sean swooped in here at the end. And I think he's gonna take it.

[16:42] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, like a late runner that ended up winning the whole race. On Leading Actress, we have Jessica Chastain for Doll's House, Jodie Comer for Prima Facie, Jessica Hecht for Summer 1976, and Audra McDonald, Queen Audra from Ohio State Murders. I think it's gonna be Audra, but I am not that sure.

[17:03] Connor MacDowell: I mean, why not? She already has six of them, right? Is it five or six, Tony? I thought she was incredible in this play. It hits close to home because Connor Knight did attend The Ohio State University, and it was a treat for us in that regard. I think because she has so many, she's not gonna win another one until people are really like, this is another time for Audra to win, in my opinion. So I'm gonna go with Jessica Chastain, who I thought was marvelous in A Doll's House.

[17:32] Dylan MacDowell: Okay, this is really hard because I loved these performances, and also justice for Rachel Brosnahan in The Sign in Sidney Brustein's Window, and also Laura Linney in Summer 1976, who are also both great. I actually preferred Laura Linney over Jessica Hecht in Summer 1976, but Hecht had the more fun and connective role between the two, and they had equal stage time. So it was one of those weird things. But anyway, I was convinced that Jessica Chastain was taking the Tony this year. I was really convinced, but then I saw Jodie Comer in Prima Facie. Is that how you say it? Prima Facie? I actually looked up—

[18:12] Connor MacDowell: No one knows.

[18:14] Dylan MacDowell: I know, Prima Facie. Dylan, I think we should play a game with the writer and director when we have them on our show. You can cut this part, where we ask them how it's really pronounced, and we can give them all the different ideas. But I think Jodie Comer's taking it, y'all. She is unbelievable. She starts, and she does not stop for like an hour and 45 minutes by herself doing this whole play. It's crazy. I've never seen anything like it. One of the best live performances ever. My only thing is, it's a solo performance. And I wonder if it should even be in the same category. And that's kind of my Tony's hot take, are if it's a solo performance, other award shows will split it off. Because it's so different than something that Jessica is doing on stage, acting against all those other actors. So I think Jodie should win, and I'll say she's gonna win.

[19:08] Connor MacDowell: Okay.

[19:09] Dylan MacDowell: Even if I have issues with the way that it shakes out with the solo. But anyway.

[19:15] Connor MacDowell: But that hot take makes sense. Like, all of them are working with other cast members or an ensemble rather than standing alone on the stage. So yeah, I kind of agree with that hot take, to be honest.

[19:31] Dylan MacDowell: I think the Drama Desk Award has solo performances in that category.

[19:36] Connor MacDowell: Yes. Let's go to leading actor in a musical, because we have Christian Borle and J. Harrison Gee from Some Like It Hot, Josh Groban from Sweeney, Brian Darcy James from Into the Woods, Ben Platt from Parade, and Coltrane Ryan from New York, New York. I have a favorite in this category. But before I spill my tea, I want to hear yours.

[20:00] Dylan MacDowell: I think it's gonna be J. Harrison Gee for Some Like It Hot. It just feels like their moment.

[20:07] Connor MacDowell: I have to, yeah, you go first, you go first, you go first.

[20:12] Dylan MacDowell: I have a hot take there, because I saw J. Harrison on Kinky Boots, and obviously I loved it. But I think that their work was so similar in Some Like It Hot. So, so similar. So it wasn't as, I mean, they are anyway a great performer, a great singer, dancer. But I think it was like an extension of that character that I saw in Kinky Boots, just in another time period, in another thing, and obviously different drama lines. But I was just like, I wasn't as taken back by their performance as I was when I saw them on Kinky Boots.

[21:05] Connor MacDowell: Got you. That makes total sense. Yeah.

[21:08] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah. I'm gonna say, no, no, no, I think that's really interesting insight. I actually did not see J. in the role. I saw their understudy. They had to miss during two performances of previews, I guess only two, and of course I wasn't one of them. And it was a great role, and I could see how it would fall into the Lola trope. Especially the performance that Daphne, the numbers that Daphne gets, I could see that.

[21:35] Connor MacDowell: I am gonna vote for J. if only because, I'm not gonna vote, I'm gonna predict J. I feel like I'm voting J. if only because they've won almost every award possible this season leading up to the Tonys. So it seems like the general body is sort of just decided this is J.'s time. And to y'all's point, I mean, when I saw Ben Platt in Parade, I was like, oh, Ben is doing something very similar to what he does. Like when he was in Dear Evan Hansen, we were like, oh my God, he's amazing, a star is born. And like, yeah. But now that I've seen him in other roles, as a performer does, they take, they are themselves in every role they do. But I was watching Ben in Parade and I was like, oh, those are a lot of the same like Evan Hansen-isms that he was doing in that show.

And I was like, oh, that's what he's, that's his thing. It's not, that wasn't Evan, that's like Ben Platt's thing. So to your point about J. and Kinky Boots and Something Like It Hot, I'm like, I wonder, yeah, yeah, if other people are thinking something similar. It's like how when I saw Stephanie J. Block as—

[22:39] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, yeah, if other people are thinking something similar. It's like how when I saw Stephanie J. Block as The Baker's Wife, I heard Cher voice at times singing certain lines. I think that the actor will always carry bits of themselves as well.

[22:52] Connor MacDowell: For sure.

[22:52] Dylan MacDowell: For sure.

[22:53] Connor MacDowell: Better or worse.

[22:56] Dylan MacDowell: It's kind of a strange category. I'm sorry, I'm like rambling here. I told you I was going to ramble. Well, I just think this category is odd because, well, first of all, there's six people in it and there's not in any of the other categories. And if I were to choose a category to have more than five, this wouldn't have been the one, to be honest with you. But I did not think that Borle or Darcy James were going to get in. And of course, I talked to people about this and they're like, well, why would they not? They're beloved. Borle's always nominated. Brian Darcy James, Into the Woods, swept in with the Sarah Bells, blah, blah, blah. But I really think Andrew Burnett should have been nominated for Camelot. I saw him last week. I thought he was phenomenal and I think was my favorite leading male performance of the year.

[23:35] Connor MacDowell: Really? I've had time to sit with it. I've had time to sit with it too.

[23:41] Dylan MacDowell: Anyway.

[23:49] Connor MacDowell: My thoughts on this one is, and I've had some time to sit down with it too, and I am just hoping he has a chance. I want Colton Ryan to win this Tony. Like he has, he did such an incredible job in New York, New York. Like when I saw him, I was just like thinking he is the definition of not only a Broadway soul, like classical Broadway soul on stage, but also the type of performer every single individual in a performing arts program should be aspiring to be. Like he is a musician, he's a dancer, he's a singer, he's an actor. Like what can this kid do? And I was just like starstruck, starstruck. And obviously being the theater kid that I am and the fangirl that I am, when I was in the stage door, I was like, that Tony is secured. You know, like, I hope so. We'll see what happens. And I was just like, I need it. I need it. I need Colton Ryan to win this Tony.

[24:57] Dylan MacDowell: That would be amazing.

[24:58] Connor MacDowell: Yeah. He's a friend of ours. And we got to chat with him after the show. And I think that it would mean the absolute world to him in validation. And he's worked so hard. I think that he's definitely going to get nominated down the line because he's everything you said. And I would love for him to win, believe me.

[25:19] Dylan MacDowell: I know. He's definitely my favorite of the nominees who is in this group of guys. You know, like, I really think that, yeah, he's amazing.

[25:30] Connor MacDowell: Let's go to leading actress in a musical. Because we have Annalie Ashford from Sweeney Todd, Sara Bareilles from Into the Woods, Victoria Clark from Kimberly Akimbo, Laura Courtney from Ann Juliet and Michaela Diamond from Parade. My thoughts, after seeing the only performance that I didn't see was Sara. But after, oh, and Annalie. But after seeing, like, other videos, kind of bootlegs, TikToks, all of that, I do think that Annalie is going to take this home. And my second runner up, if it's not Annalie, would be Michaela. Like, her performance in Parade, damn good. What do you think?

[26:11] Dylan MacDowell: Oh, yeah. I'm with you. I mean, gosh, they're all great. I think it'll be Annalie. I think she wasn't able to be nominated for Sunday in the Park with George. And she does have a Tony, but it's for a play. And she's sort of this modern day Sondheim performer. You know, she's like a modern day Bernadette. You know, she's doing these, these pieces. And she is so funny. She is the star of Sweeney. And she's so perfectly cast. I think it'll be Annalie.

[26:46] Connor MacDowell: I would love for it to be Annalie. The buzz around town that I've heard is that Victoria Clark is the favorite to win. But I'm gonna predict Annalie because I want to put that energy out into the universe.

[26:55] Dylan MacDowell: Yes, I agree with everything.

[26:59] Connor MacDowell: The three of us putting that, yeah, manifesting Annalie, Tony winner.

[27:05] Dylan MacDowell: I think that Gorda and Michaela and Sarah will all get nominated again down the road. And Victoria obviously already has a Tony. So yeah, for this category.

[27:17] Connor MacDowell: I'm gonna skip a couple of categories here. But let's go through Feature Actor in a Musical. Because we have Kevin Cahoon from Shucked, Justin Cooley, Kimberly Akimbo, Kevin Belagila from Some Like It Hot, Jordan Danica from Camelot.

[27:31] Connor MacDowell: And Alex Newell from Shucked. I honestly, honestly think it's going to be Kevin Cahoon from Shucked. What a damn good character. A damn good performance. And he, I think he's just a sweetheart. I love that. I love him. He is my favorite in Shucked, other than the person who I am predicting, Alex Newell, who I have just, you know, I am blown away. I was not like a super fan, I will say, prior to this. I loved them in Once on this Island, but I had heard some like diva qualities about them. And in the years since, I've sort of decided, you know what? I want my stars to be divas. I love my big belting superstars who make crazy demands. Like I think that's what makes the theater community so interesting and unique sometimes.

It's got to be Alex. I think I love that Alex is non-binary and has chosen this category as using the term actor as a very generalized, I don't want to say it's non-binary, but I'd say it's become more gender neutral in this category. And I think that that would be really cool. And if Jay won in Best Actor, and Alex won, this would be just historic in many ways. I think it'd be really cool. You just kind of gave me the chills. That would be amazing. And I agree, I think Alex is going to win. I did love Kevin Cahoon though. Loved, loved, loved, loved. I loved all of them. They were all funny and amazing and beautiful vocals all around.

[29:10] Dylan MacDowell: It's funny because when I saw Some Like It Hot the first time, as Connor, you said Jay wasn't in, and I kind of forgot about the Kevin DeLaGhella role for some reason. And not that they weren't great in the role. But then when I went back to see Some Like It Hot again later, and Jay was in, and I was like paying attention to maybe some different things the second time, I was blown away. They come in so late into the show. He really has such heart and humor. And it's this lovely little nugget of a love story in the second half. And I think he does such a great job too. So justice for Kevin DeLaGhella. But Alex is the best actor. It's an honor to be nominated, right?

[29:46] Connor MacDowell: Yeah.

[29:47] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, it is. It is. Let's go with book of a musical, because we have Aunt Juliet, Kimberly Akimbo, New York, New York, Schucked, and Some Like It Hot. I think the best book is Kimberly Akimbo. But I think Schucked will win.

[30:09] Connor MacDowell: Okay, thank you for that, Dylan. Only because I don't know if it's going to walk away with any awards, I am going to predict Aunt Juliet for David West Reid. I got to go to a cool, like a talkback with the whole cast. And it was for Broadway Radio with Julie James, I think that's what it was. And everyone was just raving about David West Reid and how amazing and brilliant he is. And it got me thinking, what an incredible book that has really elevated the Shakespeare trope and turned it into this modern... Nothing about Aunt Juliet should work, but it does. And it just completely elevates the songs, makes them all work. I think the book is just so funny and smart. There are some like, LOL lines towards the end that are like, play mama, yes, come on, Juliet, live your dream. That kind of rolled my eyes the first time I saw. But I think it's a very, very good book. I think it's a very, very smart book doing something that none of these other categories are doing.

[31:14] Dylan MacDowell: I agree. I am also predicting Aunt Juliet, but I think Schucked will get it. Like, both of them are, like, all the nominees are great. But those two for me stand out. And, yeah, obviously, I wish for Aunt Juliet, but I think Schucked has a lot of potential right there. So we'll see. We'll see.

[31:33] Connor MacDowell: Now you guys want me, you're making me want to switch. So my problem is I've lived in the Kimberly Akimbo bubble for the last year and a half, like working on the show every single day. I've seen it so many times. I really think it's amazing. And so I think part of me is like, well, why wouldn't it be Kimberly? You know what I mean? It's such a great book. I think it's a really clear story. And there's not an ounce of fat on it. I mean, it's so straightforward and silly and heartwarming. I mean, I think Kimberly will probably win a lot of these awards, ultimately. But I think my heart is sort of taking over during this call.

[32:21] Dylan MacDowell: I love that. Mine is too. Okay, I'll follow my heart for the rest of this. I'm not gonna say what I think. Anyway, keep going.

[32:25] Connor MacDowell: Okay, for a score, we have Almost Famous, Kimberly Akimbo, K-pop, Schucked, and Some Like It Hot. I think it's gonna be Some Like It Hot.

[32:37] Dylan MacDowell: Really? I just think Shaman and Whitman are so beloved. And they really write well to that era.

[32:44] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, it'll be 20 years, I believe, since they won for Hairspray.

[32:49] Dylan MacDowell: 20-ish years. Martin's face is so funny.

[32:52] Connor MacDowell: I mean, for me, it was a show that, like, in this category, Kimberly Akimbo and Some Like It Hot, they were great. Like, the scores were great. But they weren't, they aren't memorable for me. Like, music-wise, sound-wise, they are not memorable for me. My thoughts are obviously Schucked, because I can keep hearing, like, the banjo in the back of my mind, right? On the other shows, I'm just like, uh. What do you think, Dylan?

[33:28] Dylan MacDowell: I think it's gonna be Kimberly, if only because Janine is so loved. And if they don't give book to David Lindsay-Aber, I think they'll give it here, so he can still win as well. Because I think that will make him, I don't want to say an EGOT, but I think he's due for a Tony. So.

[33:46] Connor MacDowell: David Lindsay-Aber?

[33:48] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah.

[33:51] Connor MacDowell: I don't think he has one.

[33:53] Dylan MacDowell: That would make sense.

[33:56] Connor MacDowell: I hear you, though, about scores this season that aren't necessarily that memorable. Like, it's a little funny to me that when I'm like, oh, like, well, Aunt Juliet's got my favorite score of the season, and it's all pop songs I've been living with for the last 20 years, you know what I mean? Like, so I hear you. And I think that's a really valid point that I agree with about maybe some of these scores. You don't leave the theater singing one of the new songs you heard. But interesting point. Wait, so what did we all decide? We think, we think Schucked, Some Like It Hot, and Kimberly?

[34:31] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, yes.

[34:32] Dylan MacDowell: I just want to keep it straight in my head. Okay.

[34:34] Connor MacDowell: I want to include Scenic Design of a Play, because I was just mind blown by Life of Pi. So the nominees are Prima Facie, Life of Pi, Good Night, Oscar, Leopold Stokowski, and A Christmas Carol. I think it's going to be Life of Pi, if they are including within Scenic Design, puppetry, which I hope. So.

[34:56] Dylan MacDowell: I'm with you.

[34:57] Connor MacDowell: I think you could be too. It was so breathtaking, wasn't it?

[35:01] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah.

[35:02] Connor MacDowell: It was one of those plays when I was watching it, and I was like, oh, like, this is the kind of effects you see in a movie, but we're seeing them before our very eyes.

[35:10] Dylan MacDowell: On stage, yes. Like done on stage, live in front of you. And it was mind blowing. Mind blowing.

[35:18] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, it took my breath away.

[35:20] Dylan MacDowell: I'll predict that as well. I haven't seen any of those, but.

[35:23] Connor MacDowell: Let's go with Scenic Design of a Musical, because we have New York, New York, Sweeney Todd, Camelot, Schucked, and Some Like It Hot. I do have to confess that I think I have a clear winner, and two that I wish will win, but I want to hear you.

[35:43] Dylan MacDowell: Okay. I think it'll be New York, New York.

[35:48] Connor MacDowell: It had such beautiful sets. They really, the way that the scenes transitioned in general between all the different moving pieces, the rain scene, the apartments, the skyline, the interiors of these, the clubs, and I don't know, it just.

[36:06] Dylan MacDowell: The hand-painted backdrops.

[36:08] Connor MacDowell: It was beautiful. I love, love, love going to a Broadway show that hypothetically I've paid money for, and getting my money's worth for a nice, beautiful, big set that makes you disappear in the world. So I love that on Broadway, and I think New York, New York nailed it.

[36:25] Dylan MacDowell: I second everything you said. I love Beowulf Borat's designs. He always, if I see that he's on a creative team, I always know it's going to be something incredible. So I'm going with New York, New York as well.

[36:39] Connor MacDowell: That is one of my wishes, because I loved the scenic design, but I think Some Like It Hot is going to take it.

[36:47] Dylan MacDowell: Okay.

[36:48] Connor MacDowell: Like the chasing scene, and a lot of the stuff that they put on stage are like, yeah, I will give this win to Some Like It Hot.

[36:56] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah. I mean, when they go to Mexico, the lighting in the set was great there. I guess I'm cheating now, and I'm talking about the lighting of it, but yeah, it was great. It was great.

[37:12] Connor MacDowell: Let's go to lighting design in a musical, because we have New York, New York, Camelot, Parade, Aunt Juliet, Some Like It Hot, and Sweeney.

[37:23] Dylan MacDowell: Spill it.

[37:24] Connor MacDowell: I got to look at my ballot here, because I forget what I picked. I feel like I didn't have, like, I haven't really been using it, because I just know what I thought, but let me look really quick. Dylan, what do you think?

[37:33] Dylan MacDowell: Dylan, what do you think?

[37:35] Connor MacDowell: Oh, interesting. I see what I picked. I'm going to go with New York, New York for this one as well. I think the Manhattan Henge sequence with the sunset in the background is the moment. And something that's interesting about lighting design, unless there's a show that's sort of carrying the night, sort of like a Hamilton, or producers, you know, like a show that wins like almost everything, the award will go to a show, this award historically has gone to a show that has a moment where the lighting is remembered. And that's the only lighting moment I can remember from the whole season, to be honest with you, in this category, above these nominees.

[38:16] Dylan MacDowell: I second your choice.

[38:19] Connor MacDowell: What do you pick?

[38:22] Dylan MacDowell: I feel like I didn't give this one enough thought in my ballot, because I picked Camelot.

[38:29] Connor MacDowell: Really?

[38:31] Dylan MacDowell: They didn't have one of the classic Lincoln Center, like, lush, massive sets. But what they did do with the set that they had was complemented with really interesting lighting. And it felt like an extension of the set. And maybe that I think that's what I was thinking when I cast my vote. So I'm just gonna go with it to be fun.

[38:54] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, why not?

[38:55] Dylan MacDowell: Okay.

[38:55] Connor MacDowell: There was some really nice lighting in it. And that's an interesting theater and stage to light, you know, you really have to draw focus, because it's so big. So I think that was kind of, it was pretty cool.

[39:08] Connor MacDowell: Okay, good, good answer. Like, it's a good argument. Let's move to sound design in a musical because we have New York, New York, Schucked, Into the Woods, Aunt Juliet, and Sweeney.

[39:22] Dylan MacDowell: I have to confess that the St. James is not my favorite theater on Broadway. I think that the building, the building has something that doesn't do justice to the sound design. So I'm going to go with my favorite show, Aunt Juliet.

[39:42] Connor MacDowell: Love. I could totally see Aunt Juliet winning. I mean, you hear every word of those pop songs, and it is mixed so well. It's like you're hearing the songs for the first time. And I think sometimes, when there's a lot of chaos going on on stage, like in that show, there's a lot happening. It would be easy for the lyrics to get swallowed up. But I feel like they were really showcased. I mean, Max Martin's score is the star of the show. So I think of these nominees, well, the Sweeney Todd sound design I found to be difficult and challenging. I think I'm going to vote for Aunt Juliet.

[40:21] Dylan MacDowell: I've convinced myself, Martin. Y'all are convincing me because I have been saying all season, and for anyone listening who I've said this to in real life, you're getting the exact same spiel from me. But I just felt that the sound design of Into the Woods was... Like with Aunt Juliet, you heard every single word of that stunning score. And again, they didn't have like a massive set. So the star of that show was also the music. And you heard every bit of sound coming out of those very tricky, difficult, wise life lessons that Sondheim bestowed upon us. So I think it'll be Into the Woods.

[40:59] Connor MacDowell: Nice. Let's move to direction of a musical because we have Michael Arden in Parade, Lear de Bizana on Into the Woods, Casey Nicholaw on Some Like It Hot, Jack O'Brien on Schucked, and Jessica Stone for Kimberly Akimbo.

[41:16] Connor MacDowell: I said Lear for Into the Woods. I just feel like if it wins revival, the director will win as well. So that was my thought.

[41:24] Dylan MacDowell: I am gonna go with Casey Nicholaw for Some Like It Hot. I feel like it's his time here with this one. I have two. I have a tie because I cannot choose right now. But I'm between Parade and Schacht. I think both shows were amazing. Like, so very well directed. So I'm in a tie. I just like, I'll let the Tony voters decide this one. Did Michael Arden win for Once on this Island? Maybe he'll win. I think he'll win. I'm switching my phone.

[42:07] Connor MacDowell: All three of his directing Broadway credits have he's been nominated for.

[42:16] Dylan MacDowell: So third time could be the charm.

[42:19] Connor MacDowell: Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. We have two categories left. We have choreography and orchestrations. For choreography, we have Sweeney Todd, Some Like It Hot, New York, New York, and Juliet and K-pop. We have a double nominee here with Jennifer Webber because she choreographed and Juliet and K-pop. So she has a double chance to win. But who do you think?

[42:46] Dylan MacDowell: Susan Stroman for New York, New York. I love her choreography. Every single scene transition was choreographed. The action never stopped. It flowed. And, you know, she's the master. She's back with this beautiful show. And I think if New York, New York has one major thing going for it, it's its choreography.

[43:05] Connor MacDowell: I'm with you. I am with you too. I love the choreo in K-pop though. I love the choreo in Juliet, but the tap scene in New York, New York, it was one of the most beautiful things I have experienced on Broadway. And I'm a sucker for tap. That's why I was excited to see Some Like It Hot. But only the tap scene in New York, New York alone is a masterpiece. So, Susan, thank you for this. Like, honestly, thank you for that little scene. Everything, obviously, but that little scene.

[43:40] Dylan MacDowell: And let's go with our last category. We have orchestrations. We have Ann Juliet, Kimberly Akimbo, Shucked, Some Like It Hot, and New York, New York.

[43:59] Connor MacDowell: I said Ann Juliet for this one.

[44:05] Dylan MacDowell: Me too.

[44:10] Connor MacDowell: I'm going to go with Kimberly Akimbo for this. Just listening to the album, it is so beautiful. I mean, Janine Tesori's music just really comes to life with these orchestrations. And it makes it seem so much bigger than it is at times.

[44:20] Dylan MacDowell: Yes, but I do think that to understand the cast recording from Kimberly Akimbo, you have to experience it live. Because I listened to it first, and I was like, I don't get anything. I had to go read and do research about the show, and know that it was a play before it was a musical, and all that stuff. But then when I experienced it live, it was like, oh, I have a new point of view. But my winner for this category will be Ann Juliet. I am a sucker for jukebox musicals. But when they take pop songs, and they elevate it the way Ann Juliet did it, I just loved it.

[45:10] Connor MacDowell: Because yes, we have, I think this will be for next season, but we have also Once Upon a One More Time using Britney music, which the orchestrations were beautiful. We have a beautiful noise also, which the orchestrations are beautiful, even if they're not songs that I grew up with. And I literally grew up with every single song on Ann Juliet. So I just think they did an amazing job with that music, and putting it on stage.

[45:43] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah. We did miss one category that I am curious to hear both of your thoughts on, Featured Actress in a Musical.

[45:51] Connor MacDowell: We did. Oh my gosh.

[45:56] Dylan MacDowell: Oh yes, we did. Let's go back to that, because I have a clear winner. But we have Julia Lester from Into the Woods, Ruthie Ann Miles from Sweeney Todd, Bunny Milligan from Kimberly Akimbo, Natasha Yvette Williams from Some Like It Hot, and Betsy Wolfe from Ann Juliet. What do you think?

[46:17] Connor MacDowell: Oh, it's such a good category. This one could have had so many additional performers in it as well, especially my best actress of the season, Melanie Labarie from Ann Juliet, who played Angelique in The Nurse. She was absolutely unbelievable. And I also have to say, this is one of the best categories with body representation on Broadway. And I'm going to go with Bunny Milligan from Kimberly Akimbo. I thought she was a highlight of the show, and it feels like it's her time to be crowned. She has been working the hard yards for so many years. She was amazing in Head Over Heels, and this feels like the role that she will win her Tony for.

[46:54] Connor MacDowell: And I think the word on the street is that people have kind of, they think that as well. What do you think?

[47:01] Dylan MacDowell: Well, I love, love, love Betsy Wolfe and Ann Juliet. I feel like I'm an Ann Juliet stan on this podcast. And I walked into this today thinking, oh, I don't know if Ann Juliet's going to win any Tonys. But now I'm convinced that it should win everything it's nominated for, basically. But Betsy just nailed it. She was born for the role of Anne Hathaway. Every single line delivery. I went and saw the show again recently. And I, for some reason, maybe it's because of where she was standing. I was just watching her a lot. But how can you not? She nails it. She's so funny. She has so much heart. I don't know. I just, I think you can't argue with it. I think she could win.

[47:43] Connor MacDowell: I agree with you, Connor. I think Betsy was made for that role, was made for that show, and will probably win the Tony. But I'm also loving belting Bonnie's work in Kimberly Akimbo. And I got to see her at the stage door and she gave me a pin. She was like, oh, you're cute. Here's a pin. And I was like, I got a pin. But I loved her work. But yeah, I think that I agree with you, Dylan, on body representation this time this year within this category. But I think Betsy is going to take it home.

[48:24] Dylan MacDowell: Wow.

[48:25] Connor MacDowell: It's so interesting. I know. I think voters might sway more towards Some Like It Hot and Kimberly than we did during this conversation. I just have a feeling. I don't know why. I just have a feeling. But I love our choices, even if I was kind of just guessing on some of them. I think that I really did vote with my heart on a lot of these as opposed to what I actually think will win. But like we said earlier, it could be manifesting. There are some years when shows, the love is completely spread. And there are other years when one show will sort of carry the whole night and others might just get one or two. But I have a feeling it's going to be pretty divided up like we sort of predicted tonight.

[49:08] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah, yeah.

[49:11] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, before we wrap up, what would be a category you wish existed in the Tony Awards?

[49:17] Dylan MacDowell: I said it earlier, but this year, for some reason, I really feel strongly about this Best Solo Performance Tony that should probably exist. Because other than Jodi, I feel like, I don't know, it's just hard to put someone who isn't acting against other people in a category where their performances are so, you know, perhaps molded and shaped around their scene partners. So I just think it would be really cool in a show when it's just one performer to give, even if it's not, maybe it's just Jodi gets the Distinguished Tony for the solo performance this year. Or I don't know, I think that would be a cool category to have.

[49:59] Connor MacDowell: Yeah. And Dylan?

[50:00] Dylan MacDowell: I am gonna say, I have always felt that there should be a Tony Award for Best Replacement in a musical or a play. And I would give it to Lea Michele in Funny Girl this season, I thought she was absolutely astounding. And, you know, you could have given it, you could have nominated any of the incredible Into the Woods replacements. And, you know, I think it would be a great opportunity to recognize shows that have been open and are running as well, which the Tonys usually just highlights the new work. So.

[50:34] Connor MacDowell: That's a really fun thought, Dylan.

[50:38] Dylan MacDowell: There's been rumours over the years that it was going to happen. In the late 90s, they thought it was going to happen for Annie Get Your Gun, when Reba McIntyre stepped in and replaced Bernadette Peters and everyone thought she was unbelievable. And then again, there were rumours when Sara Bareilles was replaced in Waitress, and people thought that this was going to be, that it would be the right time to do that. So yeah, maybe one day.

[51:00] Connor MacDowell: I wish there was a category for ensemble, like Best Ensemble. But I would be torn as a voter. But I think that for this year, the Best Ensemble, I would give it either to Parade or to New York, New York. And maybe also, and Juliet, but I cannot give it awards to everyone.

[51:24] Dylan MacDowell: Yeah.

[51:24] Connor MacDowell: So does that mean everyone in the ensemble has a Tony?

[51:29] Dylan MacDowell: Maybe, why not?

[51:32] Connor MacDowell: I would say it's sort of like if you win for SAG Ensemble, it's like you're a recipient of the SAG, you're part of the SAG winning Best Ensemble or Tony winning Best Ensemble.

[51:41] Dylan MacDowell: Okay, that makes sense. Okay.

[51:42] Connor MacDowell: That's a fun idea. I love how we took this. We're like, okay, let's do the solo performers. Let's do the entire cast. Let's do people who are in a show that isn't brand new. And that's what's important about the Tonys. It's bringing attention to these shows on a nationwide, maybe international basis. Like, you know, for so many people, for so many kids, that's our window into the theatre community that exists in New York specifically.

[52:11] Connor MacDowell: I'm so glad the show is going to still air this year. And I hope people watch it, even if it's on Pluto TV for part of it.

[52:18] Dylan MacDowell: Whatever that is.

[52:20] Connor MacDowell: Yeah, whatever that is. I want to thank the both of you for being here. This has been a delight. You both know how much I love you and I enjoy talking to you. Thank you so much. Before we close, please promote Drama, one of my favorite theatre podcasts out there. So where can people find you? How often do you publish episodes? Because you already told us a little bit about what you do on the show. But where can everyone find you?

[52:48] Connor MacDowell: Yes. Well, the podcast is called Drama with Conor and Dylan McDowell. And you can find us on Apple, Spotify, anywhere you listen to your podcasts. And we have a new episode every single Wednesday. And you can follow us on social media at The Drama Podcast, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. And I also want to promote our Patreon, patreon.com slash The Drama Podcast, where for $5 a month, you support the pod, but you also get extra bonus episodes where it's Dylan and I chit-chatting away about stuff like this, where we predict the Tonys, we talk about pop culture, our personal lives. And you also get access to our Instagram close friends where we post the true drama. So definitely you can support us in any of those ways and tell your friends about us.

[53:30] Dylan MacDowell: I absolutely love that. Dylan, do you have something else to add?

[53:34] Dylan MacDowell: No, Conor nailed it. We have lots of episodes with a lot of these nominees that we've talked about today. Colton Ryan, Jay Harrison, Natasha Yvette Williams, Julia Lester, so many, so many. Jordan Donica.

[53:57] Connor MacDowell: Yeah. Well, thank you again for being here.

[54:01] Dylan MacDowell: Annalie. I'm sorry. I'm just thinking.

[54:02] Connor MacDowell: Annalie! Annalie! Yeah, but again, thank you so much for being here. And I love that the three of us have, like, our shirt merch, Anjali at New York New York and Hadestown. Yes, yes. Thank you so much for being here. And you're now part of the Backstage Talk family. And I'm happy about this. I know that I will have you over again.

[54:25] Connor MacDowell: Oh, thank you so much. This was a blast. You were the sweetest. We just love you. You are so knowledgeable and kind and insightful. And we're glad that you took the time to do this Tony's Predictions episode for the first time, hopefully not the last. And thanks for having us.

[54:43] Connor MacDowell: Thanks, everyone, for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk. Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.