This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Martín Acuña: So, I'm really excited about this episode. I have here, all the way from Hong Kong, the greatest and amazing Anna Robb. Anna Robb is the co-founder and the managing director for Theatre Art Life, one of my favourite sites to learn, read and educate myself in the arts. I've been following Theatre Art Life for a couple of years now and it's been amazing. So, hey Anna, how are you?

[0:44] Anna Robb: I am wonderful and thank you so much for commenting on my site. It's really wonderful to hear that people are enjoying this project of mine that is now turning into a bigger and bigger thing.

[0:56] Martín Acuña: I love it. I mean, it's so amazing to find a community of writers and contributors there that are all over every single work available in the arts. I think that is one of the most potential and amazing things the site has. Now that I'm a new contributor, it's an honour to be there and to have the opportunity to write in both English and Spanish, to open that community for Latin American people that want to read and know about the arts industry is just one amazing step for me and I thank you forehand for that.

[1:37] Anna Robb: Well, you're exactly the kind of people that we do want on the site. We always look for diversity in experience and location and it's just been so wonderful to see. I cast a very wide net when I first started. It's like all over the world and all of the arts and all of the live entertainment and so if anybody knows anything about websites, they always say target an audience and get traction with one particular area but I never really wanted to do that. I wanted to open and expose the beauty of people who work in live entertainment around the world and having lived in four continents and worked in many more countries, I've always found that there is an underlying camaraderie, I don't know if you know that word, and there's an underlying connection that we have which is a passion for entertainment and entertaining people and I wanted to highlight that also because some of the people that, most fascinating people that I've ever met in my life haven't been always the people that are on stage in the spotlight.

It's these people in the wings making magic and having very fascinating and interesting lives and so I really wanted to bring those people and elevate those people and I'm glad it's having that effect because I'm very proud of the site, I'm very proud of my contributors and all the people that are involved so yeah, it's good.

[3:12] Martín Acuña: I love that. First, I would love to know more about your experience as a producer and as a production stage manager. I know you have a lot of shows in your back but I want to know about your experience and working in that.

[3:25] Anna Robb: Well, I have a very eclectic background, you know, I never had a trajectory of this is what I was going to do. I went to university thinking that I was going to be like a set designer and I realized pretty much through the course that although I like design but there wasn't a lot of opportunity in Australia for that kind of job and I could see a lot more opportunity in stage management and having said that I think that I am much better, although I like the aesthetic and I like the idea of set design and things like that, I think my management skills are much better and when I left university I did so many different things. I rigged lights, I ran cables, I was a mechanist at the back of theatres.

I was determined not to take a job at a cafe or something to pay the bills. If I'd done a degree I'd want to at least be in the industry that I was trying to get into and that was a really great background for me to work and understand all of the technical departments and all of the crew that works around a stage manager in a theatrical environment. So when I became a stage manager I had a really innate understanding of what everybody else did because I'd done that job. I'd been the carpenter at the back of the stage, I'd been the lighting board operator on a small scale. Then that just grew and in Australia you can't just be in musicals or in plays or things like that, you've got to be diverse.

So I did festivals, I worked at the Sydney Opera House, I did tours around Australia, I worked on corporate gigs and I tried to balance out a little bit. Corporate gigs weren't particularly necessarily enjoyable for me but they paid a lot more than the theatre productions so I'd balance my year out with one or the other. And then the work just started coming in and then I decided to throw it all away and move to London. I don't know why, I just wanted to find bigger shows I think and I wanted to move out of... I was kind of getting pushed into the technical director and production management role and I really want to love the part about being in a live show. I love that part and so that's what took me overseas.

I ended up in London then I went to Cirque du Soleil in Las Vegas and then I moved over to Belgium to build the House of Dancing Water and then I moved to Macau to build and then run that show for seven years and then I was ready for the producing. Then I'd worn out the stage management aspect of it and I was ready for producing so I left in 2017 and now I produce whatever comes at me here in Asia Pacific.

[6:09] Martín Acuña: That sounds amazing. Your journey through shows is just amazing. Starting in Australia, moving to London, going to the United States, going back and so you're currently in Hong Kong.

[6:26] Anna Robb: Correct, yes. Are you producing something right now there?

[6:35] Anna Robb: I am actually. I am producing an event, I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it, but it's fairly kept under wraps but it's a wonderful event. It's 13 different venues, 13 performing arts groups and the theme is United Hong Kong and it's a wonderful initiative by a company here to ignite the hotel and the arts industries on the back end of COVID. We do have some restrictions in terms of only having 50 people per venue and so I think it's even more challenging than having you know 500, 600 people in one venue in one event. We're trying to do it 13 times across the city so it's a little bit of a big show to produce in a very short period of time but it is exciting and what's nice about it is that the people around me are excited too because a lot of people have been out of work for a long time so if I call them up and I'm like, do you want a gig?

They're like, hell yeah, you know, let's do this. So it's really, it's filled me up a little bit you know and I think the community here in Hong Kong and I'm really glad that we're at a point where we can do it.

[7:41] Martín Acuña: That sounds so exciting. I'm excited for every single production that is going on right now in East Asia because for example in Colombia we're still like every single theater is still closed. We are waiting for a second wave and everything is like a little bit crazy at the moment so we are still working with how to produce a play, film it and then launch it through a digital streaming service or try to do a live stream from the theater and knowing that at the other side of the world everyone is like going slowly back into the theaters or into the productions, it really brings me a lot of joy and ignites a light of hope that we're going to get there.

[8:46] Anna Robb: Yeah, we're going to get through this.

[8:51] Anna Robb: Yeah, I mean it's been a frustrating time for everybody and there's been a lot of devastation this year and you know I think that's going to be the lagging effect for countries that haven't dealt or managed the pandemic as well as others to see other countries come back to life is inspiring but also frustrating internally because like why can't we be there yet you know and I'm always fascinated about the cultural differences you know Hong Kong is a very compliant society and very community-minded and it's actually kind of socially unacceptable to walk outside without a mask here you'd be looked like what are you doing you know it wouldn't be it's just not acceptable and then you flip that and in many other countries it's not that perception and not that way and it's just a it's just fascinating example of how cultures manage themselves isn't it really and then you know and then how we as an arts community have to evolve and adapt and reflect on this time and figure out a way to either protect ourselves for the from the future you know possibility of this or you know and I've seen a lot of wonderful companies pivot and do different things but you know as well as I know that virtual events and virtual experiences are not the same as sitting in an audience and so hopefully when we all can do that together again the communities even outside the arts communities are going to be invigorated to show up and participate I know I'm looking forward to getting out there so I'm sure they are you know I'm sure the rest of the world is too and a lot of people are just really excited to go back into a cinema into a theater into whatever they can just like be outside be with people and that is something I think everyone is looking forward to.

[10:41] Martín Acuña: I wanted to go back a little bit at your work as a producer and as a production stage manager a couple years ago how was it working on both roles like when was the moment that you were ready or you told yourself I am ready to leave the stage management aside and embark the producer life?

[11:05] Anna Robb: Yeah, it's you know, I don't know if there was a single moment that I went oh this is the time but I had you know there's a wonderful book I read called Outliers and in that book they were talking about for anybody to master something they need to do 10,000 hours of it you know and I thought that was kind of an interesting concept and I looked back at my 10 years in the circus realm between Cirque du Soleil and House of Dancing Water and then even before that and I thought I've done more than 10,000 hours of this and I feel like it became there's no fear there's no I don't want to say there's no excitement because I always enjoy that but it was just something that I felt like I had mastered with all the calling that I've done I've done over 250 show stops I've trained countless show callers to call the House of Dancing Water I've spent many hours running trainings and calling and there's no growth there for me anymore you know I think I always want to be on the cutting edge of learning something new and I wore that out right so and I loved it like I went and did a show calling arena gig in Dubai in January and it was and I went back in there and I had an absolute ball because it was like a one-off event and it was with a challenging team and it was a short timeline and I went and did it and I was like boom done cool so it's still it's not like I've like completely thrown that out the window but I just that day-to-day calling

[12:43] Anna Robb: I want to make your vision a reality. I'm not the person to come up with the vision, that's not me, but I'll make your vision a reality. And I love to work with creative people. And so when I left House of Dancing Water, I was like, well, I've been in this show calling realm and in this show for so long, why don't I just throw myself into a digital agency? And then I'll throw myself in, I've got to figure out everything about projection mapping and, you know, media servers and all of this stuff. And like I threw myself back into the deep end of a learning curve. And you know, I've been out of that realm for about 10 years. So I was like, okay, got to learn fast, you know, about this equipment and how it works.

And interestingly enough, I look back on that as being quite a good decision, because in a lot of theatre, arts, events, gigs that I do, there's always a lot of digital media now. So now me understanding how those things come together, from a digital aspect helps me produce and interpret that technology. You know, for some people, there's always a disconnect between creative people and technical people sometimes, of what's possible. Because the technical guy's talking about what's technically possible. And then the artistic person is talking about their ideas. And I always see myself as the conduit between that, like, okay, I see your crazy idea, I understand the technical element. And now I'm going to find a way to make that a reality.

And I'm very, very passionate about doing, using technology to the best of its ability to serve the artistic vision, not just to use technology for the sake of being a new projector or a new thing or whatever, like, none of that means anything, unless you have this vision. And so I always constantly have these conversations. It's like, okay, you want to use that in your equipment, but what is it serving your story? What is it serving you? What artistically are you trying to do with it? Because until you do that, you'll miss the mark artistically, if you're just trying to use cool kit, you know, nobody's surprised about new gear these days, they're like, new gear comes, you buy one thing, and the next day, you buy an iPhone, the next day, a new one comes out, right?

So it's not a surprise. It's not like exciting anymore. So don't think that you're going to show anything new to an audience that they're going to be wowed by from technology, it's how you use that technology that they will be wowed by. So I'm always trying to find that moment when I produce shows. And be that bridge between the technical people and the creative people.

[15:41] Anna Robb: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great thing to be, because you're always innovating with the things you have. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just a great place to be, you know, you move into it, and also you can give other people opportunities to, you know, it's quite a fascinating thing to be able to build a team rather than be part of the team. And then you can see the influence on that production or on that execution of a gig, because of the team that you've put together. And I'm starting to really grow to like that aspect, because I love to work with good people, I love to work with talented people, and I'm always meeting people and be like, you're now going in my book. You know, then they get a call from me like two years later, I'm like, what are you doing?

Come and do this gig with me. And I love that. And even Theatre Art Life has fed that community of people that I've met and worked with and understood and know their talents. And so people come to me quite often and said, Do you know somebody who can do this? I'm like, actually, I do, let me give you their contact. And so I'm kind of being this like, dealer of talented people. I give you this person, I give you that person.

[17:02] Anna Robb: Yeah, it's someone perfect for the book. Let me get my address book and I'll get back to you. Exactly. Let me let me go through it. And can you recall the best experience you've had working all these years?

[17:10] Anna Robb: Absolutely not. I was thinking about this the other day, because the question was asked for me in old university was doing an article on me and I and they were saying, you know, what's the most proud moment or your favorite moment? And, you know, I think you could easily point to the times that I worked with the Beatles, you know, I've created a $250 million show in Macau. But I'm equally proud of the show little play I did in a warehouse in Western Sydney for street kids, you know, and I just don't have any sense of scale for me. For me, it's just art. And I come from that place where it actually doesn't matter what role I play or how much I get paid. I just love what I do. And so I couldn't pick because in every place or in every job, I find so much enjoyment.

I have so much laughs. I find something that I really love about every show and every production that I've done. And it goes in my little dossier of experience and joy and passion for what I do. And I think that little packet that I've collected over 20 years is what I'm proud of, not like one singular moment. And that is a life lesson for everyone, because you can honestly put a scale on the best experience, the worst experience. It is work and it has its pros and its cons. And obviously you've had obstacles in each, but in the end, it is the work you're proud of. And I love that you just said that.

[18:58] Anna Robb: Yeah, I think it's really important to look at the, you know, no, and also in every job isn't always a thousand percent enjoyable. Right. And I tend to be a very optimistic person. So I look at the challenges and I'm like, okay, well, how do I get around those? Okay. How do we move forward? And some of the parts, you know, staying at the House of Dancing Water for seven years was a challenge emotionally because, you know, you're doing the same show in and out, in and out. But what that has now given me in terms of understanding of operations, the daily challenges of what people do. So if I'm going back to producing shows that has an operational reality, I've lived and breathed it, not only for just a couple of years, I lived it for seven years.

So I know the long-term problems. I know the long-term issues. Also, it challenged me a lot more as a manager, because I think in the arts, you tend to do a project with a team and then move on, do a project with the team, move on. When you've got an issue with a team member that you work with permanently, it's not like you can just be like, oh, well, I won't be working with that person for three months. I'll just let it slide. Like you got to deal with it and you've got to deal with any conflict in your team and you've got to deal with any issues. And now that's taught me, especially in any kind of conflict situation in terms of team members, then I've got to get in there and manage that really effectively, because otherwise it becomes a cancer to the team or the show, and then it reflects badly on stage.

And I love that lesson. It was hard lessons to learn, because I didn't always, in the start of my early management career, understand that and I made mistakes. And then I got better at it. And now I'm like, what, you got a problem? All right, let's talk about it. Let's deal with it. Let's not let this fester, because it just causes trouble.

[20:42] Anna Robb: And that is social skills, like confronting someone and being like, hey, we can be friends, we can have our differences, but let's work this out together. That is still a social skill. Respect them that they've got their own path and their own opinions and their own journey. And maybe that doesn't fit with your show. Maybe that doesn't fit with this environment. Maybe it doesn't fit with the role that they're in. But we work through that together. And then if they stay or they go, it's a mutual decision, not me as a boss saying, well, you're not right, you get out, right? So it's more like, do we see that this isn't working? Yes, we see. Okay. Or let's find a way to navigate through that and continue to work together. So...

[21:26] Anna Robb: So we've talked about social skills. We've talked about overcoming obstacles and problems. What are other valuable skills that you think a production manager or a production stage manager should have, like the kit?

[21:40] Anna Robb: Agility. I think the way that I've been able to stay employed even throughout COVID is my ability to be adaptable to any project. I'm constantly learning. I'm constantly taking in information. And I really think, you know, don't pencil yourself off into one genre of entertainment. I think you want to keep yourself, keep your borders open. You want to leave those opportunities. You never know what you may or may not enjoy. And, you know, having worked for a digital agency, I can do everything from an installation, to a theme park sort of thing, to a one-off arena event, show calling, to an operational consulting, to, you know, producing a live event in here in Hong Kong. So that diversity is such a good skill set now, because now I can be like, oh yeah, I can do that job.

Oh yeah, I can do that job. So I think agility is one thing. And then I think from a global perspective, that's something that I've really started to value recently is cultural understanding. And I've worked in so many different countries and cultures. And also within, in a circus community, you've also got a lot of cultures just within your company, you know. And I've really learned a lot. And I also teach here in Hong Kong, well, I have taught in the last couple of years, a course called Cross-Cultural Communication in Entertainment. And that has a lot of theory on how cultures operate, their psychology, their motivations. And it's really helped feed me and make me understand certain people in certain cultures, and has given me the tools to work with them better when I'm landing in the Middle East, and suddenly I'm surrounded by Emiratis, you know, and I'm trying to get them to, you know, because in any live entertainment group, you're bringing people together, right, to make something happen.

And that group of people each have their own motivations, their own cultural backgrounds. And especially here in Hong Kong, it's always a diverse group of people. It's never a whole bunch of Hong Kong people, and then me, you know, there's people from UK, there's people from France, there's people from Hong Kong, there's people from China. And so in any construct of a gang of people, there's all those cultural nuances, and working and understanding them. And I think, you know, more and more in our arts community, that's there, that diversity, right? And I think even in a local level, culturally, you might grow up in a poor environment, and you're the person that you're working with, who's growing up in a rich environment, and suddenly you're working together.

And those perceptions, motivations, and understanding and comprehension of the world is very different. And so I love to analyze that. And I love to work around that and through that, because I think the more that you understand people, the better that you are at bringing the right people together and producing good shows. And that's become more and more important to me in the last few years, since I've started teaching that course. It's really fed me in my work as well. That's, that's great. Getting to know people and know their backgrounds and know the baggage they come with. I think it really enhances the shows and enhances the production and enhances ourselves as human beings. We get another perspective, and we get another point of view. And I think that is

[25:26] Anna Robb: Something, as artists, we really need. Not staying on one thing, as you say, and being open to a lot of things. And now that the arts, the entertainment industry is having a standstill and a slow recovery, you just told us about this project in Hong Kong. And I was wondering, what other type of projects do you want to work in?

[25:55] Anna Robb: Want to work in, or are available to me?

[26:00] Martín Acuña: Well, both.

[26:04] Anna Robb: So, well, no, so I'm actually never, ever doing one thing. And that's, like, so in the moment, I'm also helping Dragone in the planning of putting the House of Dancing Water back on. So I worked for Dragone in Macau, but now I'm working for the entity out of Luxembourg, who are going to, and I'm going to help plan the trajectory of how to get, produce that back on stage. After so long down, they closed down in June. And so, and there's moving timelines there, because access to Macau and all of those things. So there's that project that I'm also working on. I'm pitching on a launch event in Dubai with a group of company that I worked with in 2018. So I'm helping that project. And that's kind of like a launch day with an installation and some digital gear and things like that.

And then I'm, I've been asked to potentially do a gig in January in either Saudi Arabia or Dubai to do some more show calling if the projects happen. So there's a few things cooking and I, you know, this stage of COVID and everything, I don't say no to anything, because also, like, it might happen or it might not happen. And then when the contract's on the table, I'll then be like, should I be doing this or should I not? But I always like to be realistic with clients and employers about where I'm at and what I'm doing so that there's total transparency and they know where I'm at. But it's, you know, you gotta hustle to keep yourself employed in the entertainment industry, right? And so I like, again, I come back to the point, I pretty much like whatever I do.

So I don't really, I like the projects here that are happening in Hong Kong and Macau because it keeps me close to my family. You know, in 2019, I spent almost three months in the Middle East and that's, I have two young kids under 10 years old. So that's hard on them and it's hard on me. And so when I've got projects that are close to home, I'm even more happy.

[28:12] Anna Robb: You're always down to take them if they're close to home.

[28:16] Anna Robb: Exactly. Absolutely.

[28:19] Anna Robb: The last thing I want to talk to you about is about theatre art life, because I know we already introduced the site and the platform. But how did it start? Because I think you as a co-founder, I'm guessing here, never thought that it would explode like that and be such a big space for entertainment people to go and look stuff up.

[28:52] Anna Robb: Mm. And we're only just starting. Don't worry, Martin, we're only just beginning. I have plans for days. I just have more time and more money I need. I love the project. I have endless ideas and more and more, like if I could get a bigger team behind me, I just know. I'm even considering maybe trying to get some funding and stuff just to kick it further along the path. I love the project. How did it start? Very good question. I was stuck in Macau. I was looking to move on from the House of Dancing Water, but due to my husband working on the show and the kids in the place, and I hadn't found another job and we didn't know where we were going, I was feeling a little bit stuck. And I have a very good friend here who's basically a psychologist slash life coach, etc. And I never went to see her as a session, but we went to dinner one night and she said, and I was expressing my frustration of like what was happening and needing to sort of, you know, be creative in another way.

And she said, OK, well, tell me if you were to sum up in three words what your life is and what is about your life, what would it be? And I went home and three words were theatre, art and life. They're my three passions. And so, well, that's what it is. So I then went to, I went home and I thought about theatre, art and life. And then I thought, well, how does that manifest in, sorry, I got my eyes on, how does that manifest in my life? And she said, take the passion that you have for your job, because now that's really hard to maintain and stuff in your work, and you need to push that into something else. And so I was like, well, what would theatre, art, life be? And it came back to that, all of these community of people and these wonderful people that, you know, I've met around the world and I want to elevate them.

And that's enriched me and that's enriched my life. So that was the foundation of like, the seed of the idea was let's make a website, you know, where we can talk about that and we have contributors. And then I had a friend at the time who'd done some marketing and stuff like that. So we got together, we brainstormed. My sister's a graphic designer, so I got her to design. And the beautiful thing about my sister is she knows me, right? So even though she did lots of options of what theatre, art, life might look like, I think she knew exactly the one I was going to pick, the logo and everything like that. And so she did the design and then we just opened the business in Hong Kong. We just started super small.

I literally called up 50 of my friends and said, can you write me three articles, please? And they're like, what? And I'm like, please write me articles. I'm going to start a thing. And then it just grew from there. And now it's just I have a lovely team that help me on webinars and digital content. And we're all over the globe. You know, we've got people in the UK and the Philippines and Australia and America. And I just, it's been a tough year for theatre, art, life as well, because of the, you know, a lot of subscriptions we've lost because people, I understand, got to pay for their life before they pay for their things. But for me now, it's like, this is the time for us to push through and still be there for the arts community, even more so.

And if I've got the financial means to be able to continue to support theatre, art, life, because I'm still working and everything like that, then this is the time to push, pull through. And that's what we're doing now as a team. We're there, we're continuing with the webinars, we're continuing with the content, we're reaching out even more and keeping people ignited about those conversations and let them not forget that we are still here and we're going to be back, right? Stronger than ever.

[32:59] Anna Robb: Exactly. Because I know you basically have one webinar weekly about a lot of different topics. And I've seen a lot of them. This week we're not doing it because of the election week. So I'm like, actually for me, because I'm organizing this big event, I'm like, whew. But it's wonderful because we have wonderful people showing up and the people that we have on the webinars are great. So yeah, we're pumping out the content now.

[33:23] Anna Robb: That's great. And where is it headed? You just said you have a lot of ideas and a lot of projects that may be cooking up. Where is theatre, art, life headed? Honestly, I really want it to be, you know, the space that we are at doesn't really exist, the global media side. You know, in the UK you've got the stage and in the US you've got Playbill and in Australia you've got Arts Hub. And then there's other sites that have different models in terms of recruitment and all of that sort of thing. And I feel like in my mind we're going to that media site, that global media space where people go to and how that forms will really be dictated by the audience. I'm not attached to, I'm very attached to how my brand goes out in terms of the ethos and the content.

I'm very protective of like what we promote and what people, you know, how many people a day like, let me blog on your page and like, are you in the entertainment industry? No. So forget about it, right? I'd rather have somebody in the entertainment industry who doesn't write well write something about their life than a blogger that writes about tech stuff trying to write about the entertainment industry. You can see straight through that, you know, it's like I don't need writers like you. I want people in the industry. So, you know, I've stunted it. I could have grown in many other ways but I'm very protective of the ethos of what it's supposed to be. So the growth is long and it's slow and the net is wide.

But my goal is then to really, my goal would be to be that media site where people can read about arts around the world and learn. I want to directly connect people working in the industry to people who are younger growing up in the industry to learn from them. Not just, you know, a lot of the teams it's like not like just what you do but how you do it because I think that's really the key. And a lot of people are sometimes still protective a little bit about their knowledge but I'm like, you want to know about how I do something? I'll tell you from here till Christmas. Like I think that if we make better stage managers or if we make better crew or if we make better things then we make better shows.

And so I don't think it's something to be kept internally. It's something to be shared and that's my philosophy. So I want it to grow in that way and I would like to offer, you know, eventually courses perhaps. I'd like to have theatre art life conferences where we bring groups of people together to talk about the evolution of the arts. I want far more video content. I want a bigger YouTube channel. You know, I just, for me, now that I've discovered the world of media the possibilities are endless and I really, I want to be at the forefront. And then if you're in that place of notoriety then you've got, you can be in a position of influence in certain arts communities to promote and that sort of thing.

So again, I think only in like five-year lots at the moment because it's too overwhelming to go beyond and I want to keep meeting those milestones that we're trying to hit. And I like where we're at. And I, you know, at some point perhaps when I have a bigger team I won't be as closely connected to the day-to-day of reading every article and doing that. And I know I'm going to look back at this moment and go, oh this was the best time, right, because I was so in it. I'm actually even scared of getting it big because then I have to kind of step back and let other people run it. It's nice to be in this zone where you're very connected with everything that happens. You're talking to every people and also when you relinquish that baby are you going to be able to control how it goes, right?

So there's that, as a business owner, that's always a challenge of like owning it but delegating it and then, you know, and then that balance of maintaining. You know, you've seen companies that, you know, sell out or get bigger or whatever and then people are like, oh it wasn't like it used to be, you know, and that's the challenge. Like keeping it, keeping your essence well kept.

[37:25] Anna Robb: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, keep it in your original.

[37:34] Anna Robb: Yeah, because I think that's what people are attracted to and that's why people are joining it because of that sense of community and as you get bigger it's really, it's hard work. I have a lot of meetings early in the morning. I have a lot of meetings late at night and I enjoy every moment. We had a meeting last night with the guy who literally, a guy that directed Phantom from New York in Japan via Zoom because they couldn't get there and the whole story was like amazing and I said to Shelley at the end of the recording, I said we should have, at the end of the discussion, I said we should have removed.

[38:10] Anna Robb: Amazing content, like why did we miss that? We just had this whole conversation about how he did it and it was amazing. We'll get him on a podcast and we'll talk about it again. But now I'm feeling like, you know, we can be a lot more raw about that. If we have that conversation that's recorded, we just put it out there and then people know, you know, like, we don't have to double it up, we can keep producing really quickly. So it's about maximizing. I watch a lot of people who do it well in the media, in terms of notoriety in terms of their social media presence and stuff, and I learn from them, watch and learn, and then I implement it in our site, you know. Because I know that you're really active on LinkedIn, on Instagram, and on Twitter, and on Facebook. I remember I first met Theatre Art Life through Facebook.

[39:04] Martín Acuña: Right.

[39:05] Anna Robb: So, yeah, I know you have a social media presence going on. And all of our reach has been organic. So, you know, we have 36,000 people a month averaging this year, just reading the site, and, you know, it's gone up to 90,000 in some months, depending on, you know, what articles have been trending and stuff like that. And we've put zero money into marketing, which is pretty, like, and I, honestly, most of the reason is because I don't even know how to do that. You know what I mean? Like, I need to hire somebody. I'm like, can you do that marketing thing? Because I just, I don't even know. Like, I've had a hard enough time knowing all the administration, the back end of the website, figuring out where we're going to go with webinars, and things like that.

You know, it's such a broad, you know, it's a business. There's lots of things to do. So, I'm really proud of the team, and also the traction that we've got, even through organic reach. And so, I'm always like, you haven't heard of us yet? Oh, my God, I've been pushing out content for three years. Why haven't you seen it yet? You know, those damn algorithms.

[40:01] Martín Acuña: Totally, I fight with the algorithms all the time.

[40:05] Anna Robb: Yeah.

[40:07] Martín Acuña: Well, Anna, it's been lovely having you. I have one last question for you.

[40:12] Anna Robb: Tell me.

[40:13] Martín Acuña: Which are your top five shows?

[40:18] Anna Robb: I love to ask this question.

[40:19] Martín Acuña: Oh my goodness. On my first episode, I did that, and I answered my top five. Obviously, they're musicals, but since you've worked in a lot of different type of shows, I want to hear your top five.

[40:32] Anna Robb: Okay. Number one, and I'll go chronologically. One of the shows that got me into theatre that I think really blew me away when I was a kid was a show that I went and saw somewhere in country Australia. I can't even remember where the location was, but it was The Woman in Black. Have you heard of that play?

[40:53] Martín Acuña: No, but I'll look for it.

[40:56] Anna Robb: The Woman in Black, there was a movie made out of it as well. It was pretty creepy, but The Woman in Black is a very old play, and it has a premise. It's really only got three characters in the show, and the premise is that if you see The Woman in Black, that your firstborn child will die, and it's this whole narrative along that. What's really amazing about it is that it's a very simple play, but it uses very old theatrical tricks to manipulate the audience in terms of quick lighting changes, and they're very specific in the script. I remember being literally terrified because even at the end of the show, there's the whole narrative. The Woman in Black turns up in the audience as well, so you might be sitting in the thing, and you look to the left, and there's this dark shadow, and you're like, ah, and also there's a few moments where they're running around the stage, and I don't know how they did it at the time.

I could probably figure it out now that I've been in entertainment for years, but they're running around the stage, and then suddenly the spotlight went boom in the center of the stage, and she was there, and you had no idea how she got there, and it was a very simple theatrical trick because of where they were leading your eyes to look, and I just remember being terrified, and the premise at the end of that show is when the come out for the bows, the Woman in Black doesn't come out and bow, so it's like she wasn't in the show because she doesn't bow, and then you walk away from the play going, I saw her. Was she a ghost, or was she not? I left like I was sold. I was like, damn, that is good because I'm creeped out.

I mean, I knew it wasn't real, but to leave with that feeling of that final nail on the coffin in terms of the narrative of the play was the lady doesn't come out and bow, so you don't actually know if she was the ghost or not, and you were imagining seeing it. Super good. So that was number one. I'd say then in Dorkly, the next real experience I had when I was a kid was The Phantom of the Opera, and I was a small country town girl, so I'd never seen something like that, and so I remember just being completely spellbound when I saw that, and I used to listen to the soundtrack over and over and over and over again. So I think those two shows, I say my favourites because they drove me into the industry, and they exposed me to the arts that I really, really enjoy, and so that's two.

Oh god, I've got three more. Honestly, I'm a really bad audience member because I don't get to, I'm so busy making stuff, I never get to go to anything, so like I have to, if I'm going to say the other shows that I really love, it's because I've probably worked on them or whatever like that. The third one was this, the one that I mentioned earlier, which was called The Longest Night. We did it in a warehouse in Western Sydney, and it was a bunch of quite notorious people in the sort of Western Sydney, a couple of DJs, some break dancers, and they weren't particularly actors, but they'd gone to Adelaide, and they'd worked with some street kids, and they'd really permeated and understood their lives, and so they came back, and we did this play, we set it up in a warehouse, it was very rudimentary, and it was called The Longest Night, and it basically had this trajectory where they all sort of, you know, got drunk and got high, and then social services came the next day to take their child away, and it was a really dark play, but everybody, the street kids or people who were underprivileged from Western Sydney were invited to come and see that, and I've never seen such a profound change in an audience by these kids laughing at the people drinking beers and smoking, and like we had like real drinks on stage, like we were like, we had to be convincing for these people who were in that community, so they thought it was amazing, and then we totally shifted their emotions by showing the dark side of that life, and when you finish a show with dead silence, with a, you know, a bunch of like street kids, you know you've won, right, and I think theatre is about profound change, and I don't think that I can recall any other show where I have physically seen such an immediate profound change in a group, in an audience than that moment, and I think that's why that show really sticks with me, and it was one of the ones that I'm really proud of participating in, you know, so that's that one, that's three.

Four would probably be the House of Dancing Water because I put my heart and soul into that show for nine years from the time it was a picture on a piece of paper to its reality and run it, and after I'd worked at Cirque du Soleil, I'd really wanted it to be, I had seen, you know, they did a good job with the Beatles show, but I could see the potential of using the beast more, the machine more, the things more, I think there was like opportunity, and you know it's very hard because you've got so many influencing factors with the Beatles, because you've got all the Beatles opinions about what can and can't be done, plus the director, but you know, so there was a lot of cooks in the kitchen in that show, if you know, so I could see how that was influencing the final product, and so when I went to do the House of Dancing Water, I was very determined to maximise the direct Franco Dragone's exposure to what was possible technically, as we spoke about before, bringing the artistic and technical together, and I feel like if you've ever seen the show, if you see the show, the transitions and the way the stage moves between all of the acts and things is unlike any other circus show, because a lot of the times they do act, and then there's transition, transition, transition, act, and in this show the transitions are just as spectacular as the acts themselves, and Franco and I were very passionate about that, and I love that we delivered that.

So that's four, five, last one, last one, I don't know if I have a last one, don't know I think I'm done. You have that clean slate for another show to come in, you have a clean slate to have one show to come in.

[47:27] Anna Robb: Yeah, I gotta wait, or maybe the last one could be any show I'm currently working on, that's my favourite, you know. You know, but it's always one thing, like one dancer, or one moment, or one actor in one show that I adore, I don't want to ever encapsulate it in that one show, you know, I think that, you know, I would love to see Hamilton live, that would be a good thing, I hope that happens in my future, that's what I want to do. Maybe that'll be my fifth. I know it will, I mean, I've seen the pro shot, and if the pro shot is amazing, I cannot imagine how it would be live.

[48:10] Martín Acuña: Well, they're going to mount it in Australia, so I'm hoping that I can get back to Australia when they put that on, and I can watch it there.

[48:16] Anna Robb: I know you will.

[48:17] Martín Acuña: Yeah, and I have to take my kids to Harry Potter, because my kids are like...

[48:22] Anna Robb: Oh my god, please do, I loved it, I loved Curse Child, I did, I'm a really Harry Potter fan, and I saw it two years ago, and oh my god, it's one of the best shows I've seen ever, ever. Really? Everything is just perfect, the magic effects, the dance, the music, the performers, I mean, it's just everything, everything.

[48:46] Martín Acuña: Well, my son would love that, because over the summer, he read all seven books in seven weeks, like he read one a week, and then he got the Curse Child, the play, and read that, and so he's completely obsessed, so I'm like, it is my mission to get him to, and he does theatre classes and stuff as well, so he, he, I don't think he'll ever become an actor, but it's good for kids to be involved in theatre, right, so I just, I throw him in it, and he enjoys it, and I'm sure he's gonna love Harry Potter when we see it.

[49:06] Anna Robb: I know he will, I mean, I need a Harry Potter, I mean a Curse Child bootleg or a pro shot as soon as possible.

[49:12] Martín Acuña: Yeah, yeah, well, I have a good friend who is the stage manager on that, so she's waiting for it to open back up in Melbourne right now, so gotta get there.

[49:21] Anna Robb: Gotta get there.

[49:22] Martín Acuña: Yeah. Well, Anna, thank you so much for being here, for giving us your experience, your knowledge, it's been amazing, and I cannot wait to know your future projects and everything that is coming your way, and everything that is cooking up.

[49:34] Anna Robb: Yeah, well, now you're part of the Theatre Art Life contributor gang, so we're gonna be staying in touch for sure.

[49:39] Martín Acuña: Yeah, I am. Really, we have to get your podcast on our, on our list, on our website, on our evolution page, and yeah, and we're gonna stay in touch for sure.

[49:50] Anna Robb: Thank you so much. I am really happy being a contributor. I have a list, like, with 10 topics for articles to write, so I'm going to, I know we're gonna keep in touch a lot, so thank you so, so much for being here.

[50:04] Anna Robb: You're most welcome.