This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jay Jackson: Yes, God, honey, it's your girl, Miss Laganja Estranja, and you're listening to Behind the Awards.

[0:08] Eila Mell: Hello, and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. As always, I'm here with Bruce.

[0:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Hello, Bruce.

[0:22] Eila Mell: Hi there. How are we doing today?

[0:24] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm good. So you had a busy weekend at the theatre?

[0:29] Eila Mell: I've been wanting to get back to see Mincemeat, especially with, you know, some of our guests, former guests, being in the rotation now to try to see, you know, who I could see. But before the show even started, I saw something I've never seen in a Broadway theatre.

[0:46] Bruce Gotlieb: What?

[0:47] Eila Mell: And I texted you a picture because I couldn't believe my eyes.

[0:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, yes, an audience member.

[0:53] Eila Mell: This gentleman walked in with his dog, but his dog on a leash.

[0:58] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, well, you would hope.

[0:59] Eila Mell: Just free walking. No, but not like in a bag or carrying it. The dog and him were both walking down the aisle.

[1:06] Bruce Gotlieb: How big was the dog?

[1:07] Eila Mell: Medium-sized Whippet, if you will, breed. So like a greyhound-ish look.

[1:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. Skinny, tall, skinny dog.

[1:16] Eila Mell: Yes, and medium-sized. Not quite super long, but medium-sized. Definitely looked like he didn't know why he was there. The owner sat down in his seat, which was on the aisle about midway up the orchestra, and proceeded to try to have the dog lay on the floor next to him.

[1:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[1:33] Eila Mell: Which isn't, in my opinion, a good look because once the lights go out, somebody can trip over that dog.

[1:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. You get up to go to the bathroom. You're not going to think, is there a dog in the aisle?

[1:43] Eila Mell: Right. If you live with a dog in your own home, you know, oh, I have to be cognizant of my dog.

[1:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, you'd think.

[1:50] Eila Mell: You're at the theatre, you're not thinking that.

[1:51] Bruce Gotlieb: I trip over my dog in the night many times.

[1:55] Eila Mell: So, he proceeded to pick up the dog and put him on his lap. And now, this also, again, a medium-sized dog is not a lap dog.

[2:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[2:05] Eila Mell: So, it was just interesting to me because I know, listen, service animals are allowed in all different buildings and to accompany the people that they support.

[2:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[2:14] Eila Mell: I didn't notice if he was wearing a support vest, not that that matters.

[2:18] Bruce Gotlieb: The uniform.

[2:18] Eila Mell: Right. It was just because of the size of the dog felt like this isn't the right space for it.

[2:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Is that that? So, were other people reacting? Like, the people sitting next to him?

[2:34] Eila Mell: It didn't seem so. It seemed as everybody was just like...

[2:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Everybody was cool.

[2:38] Eila Mell: Ignoring it a little bit.

[2:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[2:40] Eila Mell: You know?

[2:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, my gosh. I personally would love it, but I, you know, I just love dogs so much. But I can see if you have an allergy or if you just don't want a dog, I can see maybe not loving it quite so much.

[2:52] Eila Mell: I don't know. And especially as we know, Broadway, you know, seats aren't the roomiest of seats either.

[2:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that's true.

[2:59] Eila Mell: So, now you have a dog that doesn't really understand the constructs of, you know, personal space.

[3:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[3:06] Eila Mell: During Act One, you wouldn't even know there was a dog there. However, in the second act, there was a bark, which makes me wonder, like, the performers from the stage, you know, as they're looking out into the audience, what must go through their mind to see, all of a sudden, this dog, like, in its chair.

[3:26] Bruce Gotlieb: In its seat.

[3:27] Eila Mell: Oh, my gosh. Maybe it's not all that uncommon. I don't know.

[3:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Maybe.

[3:33] Eila Mell: Does anyone out there know? Let us know if you've seen dogs in the theater. That would be really interesting. So, I've got to think it had to have been a service dog if they let the dog in the theater.

[3:44] Bruce Gotlieb: I would assume so as well. I didn't. I had a lot of questions, but I decided I would leave them, you know, for this type of discussion instead of walking up to him and asking him.

[3:55] Eila Mell: Right. Oh, my gosh. If I was sitting next to that person, I would have been asking all the questions. But I think it's your right as a seatmate, if someone's going to bring a dog in.

[4:06] Bruce Gotlieb: To inquire?

[4:08] Eila Mell: I feel like, you know, it's that unusual. I'd rather have a dog than a baby next to me in the theater. Maybe a baby could cry at any moment.

[4:16] Bruce Gotlieb: True.

[4:17] Eila Mell: A dog is easier to control.

[4:19] Bruce Gotlieb: In theory.

[4:20] Eila Mell: So, I'm going with probably the unpopular view where I should take the dog over the baby.

[4:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I just, it was, I was shocked. I've never seen it in all my years of theater going.

[4:32] Eila Mell: Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen it. And if I have, I didn't know it because it was in a bag or something like that.

[4:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, that's what, in your head, you would assume, like they would, somebody would have like, you know, a toy Yorkie or something that can go in a small bag.

[4:46] Eila Mell: Yes, exactly.

[4:48] Bruce Gotlieb: This dog was just, you know.

[4:49] Eila Mell: Free reign.

[4:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Free reign.

[4:51] Eila Mell: Today's guest is very special. Fans of RuPaul's Drag Race know and love Jay Jackson, otherwise known as Laganja Estranja. So, if you're a fan of Drag Race, we're going to talk a little bit about that, but they are also choreographing the new Jawbreaker the Musical, which is having a workshop out in LA for all the cult classic Jawbreaker fans.

[5:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, and there's a lot of them. So, if you're in LA, you can still go. You have, I think, another week to go see this show.

[5:26] Eila Mell: Yes.

[5:27] Bruce Gotlieb: But, here's our interview.

[5:31] Eila Mell: We are so excited to welcome Jay Jackson, also known to so many as Laganja Estranja, to Behind the Awards. Hello there.

[5:41] Jay Jackson: Hi there. Nice to see you guys.

[5:44] Eila Mell: Great to see you too.

[5:45] Bruce Gotlieb: You too. Fancy choreographer, off-Broadway.

[5:48] Jay Jackson: Yeah, well, hopefully off-Broadway and hopefully to Broadway.

[5:52] Eila Mell: That's right.

[5:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely.

[5:54] Eila Mell: We like that trajectory.

[5:56] Jay Jackson: That's right. So, you're doing Jawbreaker the Musical. Now, this is a big cult movie. I like to call it the original Mean Girls.

[6:03] Jay Jackson: Absolutely.

[6:04] Eila Mell: How'd you get involved with Jawbreaker?

[6:08] Jay Jackson: Well, I've been a friend of Darren Stein, the original writer and director of the movie. We're both Capricorns, so we are often getting to see each other about once or twice a year around our birthdays in December, and this is a project that he had mentioned to me quite a while ago. And of course, immediately when he told me that he was turning it into a musical, I was like, I really want to choreograph. So, I'm so grateful that in the end, I got the opportunity to be the choreographer for the musical workshop production here in Los Angeles at the Hudson Theatres.

[6:40] Eila Mell: And had you been a fan of the movie?

[6:43] Jay Jackson: Of course, yes. I grew up with the trifecta of popular girl movies, Heathers, of course Jawbreaker and Mean Girls. So, personally, Jawbreaker has always been my favorite of the three because of its dark edge.

[6:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Who doesn't love Fern?

[6:58] Jay Jackson: That's right. And so, in your production, Fern is a little bit different. Can you tell people in what way?

[7:06] Jay Jackson: Absolutely. So, I think something that Darren really wanted to accentuate with the musical was creating the character Vern, Fern and Violet as a trans woman. I think that this character for so many of us, we saw ourselves in her in the movie. And I know that he had other people reach out to him and explain to him that this is sort of a character arc that felt very similar to the arc of a trans woman. And I think as a queer person himself, he wanted to honor that and he wanted to, you know, use that visibility for change. So, I was thrilled when I found out that the character was going to be trans in the musical and that they would be hiring, you know, people on the back end like myself to also represent the community.

[7:52] Eila Mell: When you watch a movie, sometimes you can get certain sensibilities as far as like movement or songs or like you could see it living in a different world. Have you been choreographing this movie in your mind even before you knew it was going to be a musical?

[8:08] Jay Jackson: I don't know that I would go that far, but definitely once Darren put the bug in my ear that this was going to be a musical, for sure. I absolutely started looking at it for choreographic inspiration. I think something that the movie does so well that I tried to sort of emulate in the choreography of the musical is sort of that slow-mo strut that we see the, you know, flawless ones do at the beginning of the movie. And also sort of that slow-mo deterioration of Courtney Shane at the end of prom when all the corsages are, you know, berating her. So that is something that I tried to do in the musical as a nod to the movie with this sort of idea of slow-motion movement.

[8:48] Eila Mell: You know, I don't know about you, but that's how I walk normally in real life.

[8:52] Jay Jackson: Well, I wish I could say the same, but no, I am a very fast-paced kind of gal. I am always on the go.

[8:59] Eila Mell: So having your, you know, your personal roots in the theatrical world, you know, with being a direct performer, going to school for dance, was theater always, like, on the trajectory for you, like, as a goal one day?

[9:14] Jay Jackson: Absolutely. Theater was my first love. It will be my final love. I would not be who I am today as LaGanja Estranja if it wasn't for my upbringing in the theater. You know, I was touring nationally by, like, the age of 14 with Woe, Odrous Follies, starring Larry Gatlin, and I was so lucky and still am very lucky to have a supportive family who made sure I had every tap shoe, every dance competition that I could possibly have so that I could get to the point where I am today. But theater really did shape who I am as a drag queen. I think so much of my gags and stunts and shows and shenanigans tie directly back into, you know, Gypsy, one of my favorite musicals that I was in probably, like, seven times as a kid. I never got to be Gypsy Rosalie, but now I get to be her nightly. So I'm so grateful for the upbringing in theater and for having that really inform who I am as an artist today.

[10:08] Eila Mell: I was Baby Louise. Don't be jealous.

[10:10] Jay Jackson: Sing out, Louise! Sing out!

[10:13] Eila Mell: Exactly! That was me!

[10:16] Jay Jackson: With having Rebecca Gayhart as part of this production, obviously keeps, you know, the roots of its originality there. What has that been like to see her explore a new character? And, you know, I guess also kind of be able to be a piece of history for the girls that are playing the flawless ones now.

[10:38] Jay Jackson: Yeah, well, Rebecca is a wonderful actress and an incredible person all around. I will admit I was very nervous to work with her. I remember when we were in the beginning, Matt DiCarlo, who is our director and become a really close friend of mine through the project as one does in theater. He was like, okay, you and Rebecca are going to go in that room and I'll take the cast. And I was like, wait, you're sticking her with me alone? Like, I'm nervous. But I had nothing to fear. She's so nice, such a hard worker. You know, we did a private outside of rehearsals, just she and I, so that we could really go over the choreography in detail and she could write it all down. And, you know, I think for the flawless ones, having her there was, you know, priceless.

They were able to literally turn to her and ask her directly like, what was this like? What was that hand movement you did at the end? And, you know, get specific details that you wouldn't be able to get with another actress who wasn't, you know, participating in the film back in the 90s. So having her there was so special. We were also so lucky to be visited by Julie Benz, who was in the original movie. And of course, Rose McGowan, who recorded our like pre-show announcement. So all of the girls have been so supportive from the original film to the musical adaptation.

[13:00] Jay Jackson: And if we get time, we'll do the others. Spoiler alert, we got to the others. But I think it's because we did all this pre-production work together and that's how we worked. I would choreograph, I'd send him videos. He'd be like, I like this, maybe this could be adjusted. What if you did this? And it really was a collaborative process. And I'm so grateful that I had his expertise and knowledge to guide me throughout this process because it really did inform a lot of the choices that I made as a choreographer.

[13:29] Does the play also take place in the 90s? Well, I think what's super cool about the movie and the musical is that it's sort of timeless. You know, even though the movie was in 1999, when you look at the fashion, there's so many retro references to the 60s and 50s. And so I think the musical tried to do the same thing. I mean, there was a line in the musical that was like Facebook that got changed to Instagram. So I do think there are some updated language usage that might harken to a newer era. But I think it really is timeless. I don't think we tried to, you know, specify exactly what time date we're in, just like the movie didn't either.

[14:09] When people that have seen you perform know that your dance is very rooted in, you know, athleticism and, you know, pulling out different tricks and, you know, splits and all kinds of amazing things. As a choreographer, are you like holding those to the side to see, okay, what are these people able to do? Or is that something like through the audition process that you're looking at and saying, I know I want this to have certain flair, and I need people that can do it? Or is it you sprinkle that on once you see what you can do?

[14:39] Well, with this particular process with the workshop, I actually was not involved in the casting. I was on a project, working on something else. And so I trusted the team and Tal, our amazing casting director, to do this. And I will be honest, I think most of our participants in this workshop would identify as actor, singer first, mover second. But that's actually a specialty of mine. You know, I did my Laganja's Dance School around the world, and most participants in that class were buds, or people who support me and follow me, and non-dancers. So I think I'm fairly good at working with people who maybe aren't as confident in the language of dance. And I definitely got these kids a moving and a grooving.

So quote one of my friends, Danny Franzese, who was in the original Mean Girls movie, who came to opening night. He was like, you didn't give them a second to breathe. So I definitely think I pushed the envelope and really encouraged them to go outside of the lines that maybe they would normally, you know, color in.

[15:43] We got some barrel turns in there. I got a split from Marcy. So I definitely did try to add sort of some of my signature moves. We definitely got the Laganja in there. So yeah, I definitely think I brought my flair from the drag world to the project. But as we continue to hopefully grow this, of course, I'm hoping that I can continue to expand the choreography to be more complicated. But ultimately, you know, what's really unique about this show is it isn't necessarily a big dance musical. And that's why I feel so grateful that Matt trusted me to add it into other numbers that maybe we didn't really originally think would have movement.

[16:23] Right. I'm sure as a choreographer, you know, you're not just looking at dance. You have to read the script and then see how dance makes sense in terms of the entire show. Yes, I was always constantly being like, now, Matt, what if we added two egghells here? So, you know, I tried as much as I could to get the augurphy in there. But I think a lot of what we see in this workshop production is also like movement coaching and, you know, getting them to feel sort of pedestrian movement in a heightened way.

[16:58] Have you seen a lot of your Drag Race family or fans come out to see the workshop and and kind of, you know, lend their support to the project? I have. And I'm so grateful that my sister Willam from RuPaul's Drag Race was one of the first girls to be like, what's the tea? I must see this. And she just saw it last weekend and was like, oh, sister, I'm so proud of you. And she was like, and I think I saw several of your outfits in the show. I was like, you did a lot of my clothes in the show. Oh, yeah. Of course, I've had my buds come out and support as well, which I'm so grateful for. And I'm just so happy that I can sort of blend the two worlds together because drag and musical theater, there really are so many similarities.

[17:34] Yeah. And I'm so grateful that a lot of people who are fans of Laganja are now going to see that I'm also a very skilled choreographer. You know, what's interesting about the movie is, well, that moment in time in the late 90s, we were sort of fashion wise doing a 60s throwback, you know, and so Rebecca Gayhart's hair in the movie looked like Marla Thomas and that girl. And I love that. And it kind of lends itself to almost like a drag persona. So I totally it's so much fun for your fans to come see it. I think it's a natural plus it's campy and it's so much fun anyway.

[18:09] Yes, it is definitely camp. And I definitely think, you know, people who really follow me, they they are going to recognize my clothes on stage because they followed me for years and they were like, oh, she wore that to this and this to that. So there's lots of little Easter eggs for those who have followed the work of Laganja for sure.

[18:30] So did you start like so many of us with ballet? Of course, I think any good dancer choreographer should start with ballet. You know, I actually started in sports as a young child and it just never clicked. It was never my thing. And once my parents put me in air conditioning and a mirror where I could look and stare at myself, I was happy. Also, being surrounded by girls was nice, too. That is good. But that that's sort of my motto. If there's air conditioning, I'll do it for sure. Right. Amen. Yeah. I don't really like nature very much. I love nature, but not as a full time job.

[19:10] Yeah. No. Gotcha. Was there anything that was sort of sacred from the movie that you had to leave in the play? As a choreographer, I don't think so. Right. Like you said, there wasn't much for me to work off of. But I do think, like I mentioned, those sort of slow-mo moments, I really did want to capture that with the choreography and the vibe of the overall entrance and and sort of exit of the musical. But no, I think that was more on the writer's side and more on the musician's side. They were the ones that were really, you know, doing the work to keep the movie alive, but also progress it forward as a musical.

[19:46] Right. Because you don't want it to just be the movie on stage. It's not like a Rocky Horror kind of experience. Exactly. And I think that the writers, you know, did such an amazing job with the music. You know, they turned Peachy Keen, one of the most iconic lines from the movie, into a full-fledged song. And I think also what's really amazing about this production is that the way the songs sort of they go into song and dance and then they come out into a scene and then they go back into song and dance like a traditional musical theater piece. And so I think the way that they executed that is chef's kiss.

[20:17] And I think also, at least here in New York, you know, Heathers, which is performing off-Broadway, New World Stage, just announced that it's going to be closing. So I think everybody's kind of looking for that next, you know, you know, it followed Mean Girls. So and then everyone's looking for that next formula to follow what's the next thing going to be. So this seems like the right timing for everyone to kind of latch on and be like, okay, great, it's the next incarnation of it.

[20:40] Yeah, I mean, you know, I think at the end of the day, they're all three very different. I think, of course, there is similarities there. But I think especially with the updated, you know, idea behind Violette, it really gives this musical something different that neither one of those shows has. And I also think bringing on a drag queen to be a choreographer is something that we haven't quite seen yet on Broadway. Obviously, we've been seeing people like Jinx, you know, go to Broadway. We've got Alaska touring with O'Mary right now. So I do think drag is like making its way into Broadway. But I definitely would love to be the first trans and drag queen to win a Tony on Broadway. So yeah, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that our trajectory is moving us in that way.

[21:30] And that it will, you know, fill that spot for those who are looking for the next sort of popular girl musical vibe. But I really do think that our show is special and it stands on its own. And it definitely deserves to continue to grow and be seen by more audiences because it is completely sold out here in Los Angeles. We just added another weekend, which we're very excited about. Rebecca will not be joining us for the final weekend. But we have Lori Allen coming in, who's amazing. And so we're just really looking forward to like seeing kind of the reception of that as well.

[22:11] Because as you know, with Broadway, you start with an original cast. And then as it grows and expands, you bring in other people. So I think this is a perfect way for us to test out that and just to continue to share the love of Jawbreaker with Los Angeles as long as we can.

[22:28] Yeah. And also, you know, obviously the movie was a cult hit and still is. But I think the world will view the show differently today and Violet especially. So, you know, I think we're more sensitive to a lot of things now. And I think that that will change how we see the show.

[22:45] Yeah, I definitely hope so. I mean, for me, it's just an additional layer. It's just something that does make it different from the movie, but also makes it that much more interesting. Right. Because, you know, you know, she's going to die from the Jawbreaker, obviously. But you don't know how Violet's story is going to sort of blossom throughout the show. And so I think it adds another layer of interest for the fans and for people who've never seen it.

[23:11] Right. Yeah. That's the only given, really, the Jawbreaker because the title. But then, you know, it's not the same piece. So you can do anything.

[23:17] Totally. So, as you know, Bruce just said New World Stages is wide open. So we're hoping, fingers crossed, it would be a natural move. Hopefully your team is on that. Do you know if there's any next steps planned yet? I do know that there is Whispers of New York. I also know that there's Whispers of London. So I'm definitely trusting the team when it comes to that, even though I grew up in musical theatre and have been working in that field for quite some time. In fact, next year, I'm going to be at Playwrights Horizons for Misstep, another original musical that I've been a part of, co-choreographing alongside Conor Gallagher. So I have been, you know, interested.

[24:00] Jay Jackson: I think the most exciting part about being involved in "Jawbreaker the Musical" is the opportunity to bring this cult classic film to life in a new way. The energy of the original film is so vibrant, and I’m thrilled to be part of this workshop to explore how we can translate that into a musical format.

[24:30] Jay Jackson: Working with Darren Stein, the creator of the film, has been incredible. He has such a clear vision for the musical, and it’s been a joy to collaborate with him and the cast. We’re really focusing on capturing the essence of the characters while also adding new layers through music and choreography.

[24:56] Jay Jackson: I’ve always loved the film, and I think it resonates with so many people because of its themes of friendship, betrayal, and self-discovery. I’m excited to see how audiences will react to the musical adaptation and how it will bring a fresh perspective to the story.

[25:22] Jay Jackson: The choreography is going to be a big part of the show. I want to create movement that feels both fun and fierce, reflecting the personalities of the characters. It’s important to me that the choreography enhances the storytelling and connects with the audience on an emotional level.

[25:48] Jay Jackson: I’m also really looking forward to the upcoming project, "Miss Step," at Playwrights Horizons. Co-choreographing that show is going to be another amazing opportunity to showcase my style and creativity. It’s a different kind of story, but I think there will be a lot of exciting challenges to tackle.

[26:14] Jay Jackson: And of course, I can’t forget to spill some Drag Race tea! Being part of that show was such a transformative experience for me, and I love sharing those behind-the-scenes stories. The friendships I made and the lessons I learned have shaped who I am today.

[26:40] Jay Jackson: I think fans of Drag Race will appreciate hearing more about the journey and the challenges we faced during filming. It was a wild ride, but it ultimately led me to where I am now, working on these incredible projects.

[27:06] Jay Jackson: I’m also passionate about using my platform to advocate for the LGBTQIA+ community and to promote cannabis awareness. It’s important to me to give back and to use my voice for positive change.

[27:32] Jay Jackson: I believe that art has the power to inspire and uplift, and I want to be part of that movement. Whether it’s through dance, music, or advocacy, I’m committed to making a difference.

[27:58] Jay Jackson: So, if you’re in the area, definitely come check out "Jawbreaker the Musical." It’s going to be a fabulous time, and I can’t wait to share it with everyone!

[28:24] Jay Jackson: And don’t forget to keep an eye out for "Miss Step" as well. I’m really excited about both projects and can’t wait to see how audiences respond.

[28:50] Jay Jackson: Thank you for having me on the show! It’s been a pleasure to chat about my work and share a bit of my journey. I hope everyone tunes in and supports these amazing projects!

[29:16] Jay Jackson: Remember, the arts are for everyone, and I’m so grateful to be part of this vibrant community. Let’s keep celebrating creativity and pushing boundaries together!

[29:32] Jay Jackson: I’m looking forward to what the future holds and can’t wait to see where this journey takes me next. Thank you again for the opportunity to share my story!

[29:50] Jay Jackson: And to all the fans out there, thank you for your support! It means the world to me, and I hope to continue inspiring you through my work.

[30:18] Jay Jackson: Let’s keep the conversation going and celebrate the power of art in all its forms. I’m excited for what’s to come!

[30:36] Jay Jackson: Until next time, stay fabulous and keep shining!