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[0:30] Eila Mell: Tonight at the National Arts Club, I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, Ted is an expert on Rodgers and Hammerstein, having run that organization for many years.

[0:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, cool. So anyway, that should be fun.

[0:42] Eila Mell: That is great. Well, speaking of fun, we got invited to opening night of Copperfield, the musical over at the Duke on 42nd. And a good time was had.

[0:55] Bruce Gotlieb: It was, yes. I mentioned to you before that I had never seen a show in that theater before, and it's really nice. It's a good space. You know, plenty of legroom, which you know, is a high priority. But comfortable, and you don't feel like you're on top of everybody.

[1:14] Eila Mell: And it's a nice open playing field for the designers and the director to have.

[1:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. And also, you know, something that I love about Off-Broadway, and this show certainly fits that bill is that every seat is a great seat in the house.

[1:29] Eila Mell: Yes, 100%. It doesn't matter where you are.

[1:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, exactly. I really liked the set. I thought it was cool. It was two levels.

[1:32] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[1:39] Bruce Gotlieb: And we were sort of sitting on eye level with the top level, which was interesting. You don't usually have that perspective.

[1:47] Eila Mell: Yeah, I like the use of the space in the set, too. You know, people using not only the top layer, but also, you know, going, using like, even underneath the two layers, but it wasn't, you didn't miss anything if they were under there. Like, you weren't like, oh, I can't see. It was used really, really thoughtfully.

[2:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. And, you know, even the last row isn't high up. So, you know, it's not like you feel detached from anything.

[2:17] Eila Mell: For sure.

[2:18] Bruce Gotlieb: It's happening.

[2:19] Eila Mell: Absolutely. Sometimes in a Broadway house, if I'm upstairs, or even far back in the orchestra, and everyone looks small, you know, I feel like I can't fully get into the show because I feel so far away.

[2:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, right. It's just me. Not everyone feels that way, but I certainly do.

[2:34] Eila Mell: No, I can get behind that, for sure.

[2:34] Bruce Gotlieb: So, all right, Eila, your review?

[2:40] Eila Mell: I liked the show. I thought there were a lot of really good things. I will say straight off the bat, this cast is talented upon talented. You know, you talk about Broadway or a musical, and you're looking for, like, a triple threat. It's someone who can sing, dance, and act. And this, you're getting quadruple threat, and then some because these people are playing one, two, some of them three instruments, along with acting, singing, dancing.

[3:09] Bruce Gotlieb: So they are the orchestra.

[3:11] Eila Mell: My hat's off to them, because, you know, they're playing violins, and pianos, and cellos. And sometimes, you're playing a piano in one scene, and then they come out with, like, a clarinet, and I'm like, just wowed by that. Because to me, playing one instrument, I think, and well enough to be on a Broadway stage, is a feat in and of itself. And then, to be able to play multiple instruments, or sing, dance, all of these things seems like, you know, their riches just spill over.

[3:46] Bruce Gotlieb: So I agree with you, but I have to sort of push back a little, because I felt like all that did for me was show me how talented the people were, and they are very talented. But for me, it took away from the story.

[4:01] Eila Mell: I don't know why they needed to play their instruments. I mean, maybe it was just a budget thing that they couldn't afford actors and musicians, and I get that.

[4:09] Bruce Gotlieb: But story-wise, like, it didn't make sense to me why, if, you know, we're talking about David Copperfield's mother, she's there playing a clarinet.

[4:17] Eila Mell: Sure. I can understand where you're coming from.

[4:20] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm not sure. You know, I don't remember when they did that Sweeney Todd with the instruments, what their reason was for that, either.

[4:29] Eila Mell: Right. I don't know if it was just to kind of set it apart. I'm not sure.

[4:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, maybe. And it's not, if it's a gimmick, it's a pretty good gimmick.

[4:39] Eila Mell: But again, it took me out of the story, because I'm thinking, oh, this actor can play this instrument, and they can play that instrument.

[4:44] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure.

[4:45] Eila Mell: You know, I don't know. Also, I know you agree with this, the show, while it is very good, it's too long.

[4:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that was going to be my next point. I feel like each act could have been shaved a little bit. I understand the want for exposition, especially if the only David Copperfield you know is the illusionist. Maybe you need some backstory, right?

[5:08] Eila Mell: But while I appreciate the attention to detail, they could have went high level on that, I feel like.

[5:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. They could have.

[5:17] Eila Mell: Yeah, I agree with that. Also, really, in Act One, the grown-up David Copperfield is just a narrator, and he's not really in the story all that much. He's sort of like on the sidelines.

[5:29] Bruce Gotlieb: He's kind of watching the story or like almost like a memory play in a way.

[5:37] Eila Mell: And I started to wonder, who is the actual lead in this show? Is it the grown-up David Copperfield or is it the young David Copperfield?

[5:44] Bruce Gotlieb: And it would be fine if it were either. But I just didn't know where we were headed.

[5:48] Eila Mell: I think the audience probably has that.

[5:56] Bruce Gotlieb: And I think that the marketing wants to bill it as Bobby. You know, he's enough of a name and, you know, all of these things to help draw and push the show along. You know, that's Bobby Conti, who plays the grown-up David Copperfield.

[6:13] Eila Mell: Yes.

[6:14] Bruce Gotlieb: You would think that if they were using, you know, one of the boys that's playing the younger David Copperfield, obviously not as known of an entity to draw tickets in.

[6:26] Eila Mell: Yeah, although he has Bobby Conti has plenty to do in Act Two, and he's excellent.

[6:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I just wanted more of him for sure.

[6:37] Eila Mell: I don't disagree, especially once you get to that point in the show where his vocals are soaring and he's really, you know, digging into the role.

[6:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[6:48] Eila Mell: It almost makes you want more or to have had more throughout the evening.

[6:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. I mean, obviously, it's a great story.

[6:57] Eila Mell: Yeah, it's, you know, the story is tried and true. It's many years old, but I didn't know it.

[7:04] Bruce Gotlieb: I had never read that book.

[7:06] Eila Mell: Had you read it?

[7:07] Bruce Gotlieb: I hadn't either.

[7:08] Eila Mell: No. So, you know, it was really strong. It's a good book. You know, again, it can be trimmed, but many shows you could say the same thing about.

[7:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, my gosh. One hundred percent.

[7:19] Eila Mell: And, you know, the cast, other than Bobby, the rest of the cast, which majority of them are playing multiple roles, it's just, you know, I almost don't want to mention their names because I feel like I'd be just reading the entire cast list.

[7:37] Bruce Gotlieb: I know.

[7:38] Eila Mell: Single people. Everyone is excellent.

[7:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[7:41] Eila Mell: Everyone is so, so excellent. There's just small little differences when they're a different character and not necessarily in wardrobe or costume, although there is some of that just the slightest, you know, vocal cadence or accent change.

[7:56] Bruce Gotlieb: So I appreciated that nuance of letting you know that it's somebody different, but really, you know, just staying true within themselves.

[8:04] Eila Mell: Yeah, I totally agree.

[8:07] Bruce Gotlieb: In some cases, I wasn't even one hundred percent sure who the actor was playing more than one part because they approached it so differently from the other characters they're playing.

[8:18] Eila Mell: Right.

[8:19] Bruce Gotlieb: And, you know, if they had a big hat on, maybe you didn't see their face so much.

[8:22] Eila Mell: So I wasn't, you know, I was able to figure it out, but it wasn't obvious and I really like that.

[8:27] Bruce Gotlieb: I had seen pre-existing conditions recently and the acting is unbelievable, but they play multiple roles and they don't change anything.

[8:40] Eila Mell: So you just have to know when they're changing who they are.

[8:45] Bruce Gotlieb: And it wasn't one hundred percent clear, even though it's, you know, like some of the best actors working. It's still hard.

[8:51] Eila Mell: I think you need a little something to tell the audience, you know, now I'm this person because, you know, there wasn't a lot of set for that show.

[9:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Everyone stayed in the same costumes and, you know, it was very hard to tell.

[9:05] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[9:06] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, listen, you don't want to insult an audience and think that they don't that they can't figure it out on their own.

[9:12] Eila Mell: But I think at the same time, you do need to take the approach of I'm in, I'm very close to this and I'm the one creating it, you know, so I know who's playing what and doing what.

[9:26] Bruce Gotlieb: So maybe we need to open up that door a little bit more and kind of spoon feed the audience, which I think the creatives of Copperfield did really well.

[9:37] Eila Mell: Yes, they had minimal changes, but it was enough that you knew, right? You didn't have to work. You knew right away. You could just enjoy the show and take in the story without, you know, playing detective here.

[9:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[9:49] Eila Mell: So as this is a musical, what did you think of the music?

[9:52] Bruce Gotlieb: I thought the music was good. I can't say I necessarily came out remembering or humming a song, but I thought it was really period appropriate.

[9:59] Eila Mell: I thought that it depending on where you were in the storyline and in David Copperfield's journey, the music was appropriate for that town or that time period.

[10:12] Bruce Gotlieb: So it was good. I enjoyed it, but I can't say that it was necessarily super memorable.

[10:17] Eila Mell: Yes, I agree. I don't remember anything from it except how much I liked it and how beautiful I thought it was.

[10:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[10:26] Eila Mell: And I do agree that it fit the story, but it also had a modern feel, which I like. So, you know, I think the music was really successful in this show, too.

[10:34] Bruce Gotlieb: I agree with you.

[10:35] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[10:36] Bruce Gotlieb: I don't think you have to remember the melodies so much.

[10:39] Eila Mell: I mean, you know, sometimes if you're just caught up in the story and a theme doesn't keep repeating, you're not going to remember it.

[10:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[10:47] Eila Mell: Right. I mean, listen, you can't, you know, every show isn't going to be walking out singing Defying Gravity.

[10:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[10:52] Eila Mell: It's just not going to happen.

[10:54] Bruce Gotlieb: But there are shows that, you know, sometimes you leave and like the melody, like there's just like kind of like a haunting in your head that stays with you.

[11:02] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[11:03] Bruce Gotlieb: So.

[11:04] Eila Mell: I always think that's extra, of course, but not a requirement.

[11:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Not a requirement at all.

[11:10] Eila Mell: But, you know, overall, I think it's a successful show. I think that, you know, people would enjoy it and, you know, either revisit something if they read the book or discover something new if they haven't.

[11:23] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a nice night out, comfortable theater, easy access to it.

[11:27] Eila Mell: You can bring kids.

[11:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[11:29] Eila Mell: Yeah. There's an elevator.

[11:30] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a drama. You need to not go up, you know, the steps.

[11:34] Eila Mell: Right.

[11:35] Bruce Gotlieb: That's always nice to know.

[11:36] Eila Mell: It is a drama, but kids will still be interested, I think.

[11:39] Bruce Gotlieb: And especially because there's a child on stage.

[11:42] Eila Mell: Right.

[11:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Which is always fun.

[11:44] Eila Mell: I think it's kind of cool because when you're a child and you're watching another child do it, it elevates the excitement level.

[11:52] Bruce Gotlieb: I think even for adults, it's fun to see a kid on stage.

[11:55] Eila Mell: Sure.

[11:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Because they're cute.

[11:59] Eila Mell: But, you know, let's give a shout out to someone very special to you who is in the audience there, who you got to spend some time with.

[12:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, yes. I got to spend a little time with Jen Colella, who is, you know, just a Broadway superstar.

[12:12] Eila Mell: Yes.

[12:13] Bruce Gotlieb: And one of the nicest people in this world.

[12:16] Eila Mell: Oh, my gosh.

[12:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. It was, you know, we got to see a few people in the audience that night. So it was fun to connect or reconnect and, you know, opening nights are always exciting whether you're at a community theater level or the biggest stage on Broadway.

[12:30] Eila Mell: There's a certain energy and a certain excitement that comes with it that is just, I think, infectious for everybody in the audience and the people involved in, you know, in the same right.

[12:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[12:42] Eila Mell: It's right. It's just an excitement that's in the air.

[12:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely.

[12:48] Eila Mell: It's fun. Well, speaking of excitement and children actors, we have one of your favorite shows of yesteryear, shall we say?

[12:58] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, mine, everybody.

[13:01] Eila Mell: But yes, certainly mine.

[13:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes. One of the most iconic shows of all time.

[13:06] Eila Mell: The Brady Bunch.

[13:08] Bruce Gotlieb: I think we have the most iconic actor from the show.

[13:12] Eila Mell: Well, character, but, you know, also actor because they really are connected.

[13:17] Bruce Gotlieb: They are connected.

[13:18] Bruce Gotlieb: I think I'm maybe the most excited I've ever been because we have Eve Plumb on the show. Welcome, thank you. We're so thrilled to have you. Obviously, you don't know this, but Eila is a Brady Bunch, I'm going to say fanatic because I can't think of a better way.

[13:58] Eila Mell: It's true. I mean, you know, obviously, we all grew up watching you guys. So, thank you for that. And it was just, in my mind, the ideal life. You know, I didn't realize that nobody actually had that life. I thought that that was everyone else but me had that. We're thrilled to see your memoir that has come out, Happiness Included, just to get, I guess, a glimpse, you know, a little bit behind the scenes of, you know, what it was like for you growing up as an actor in that time in, you know, the one of the most popular, although not necessarily highly rated, which blows my mind, show of a generation. How's the reaction to the book been? Again, it's called Happiness Included.

[14:42] Eve Plumb: It's been pretty good, which is really nice. It was a big step to go ahead and do this. And it's always a big step to put yourself out there. But fortunately, I think that I have hit the right note with most people. Yeah, I think that, you know, people want Brady Bunch, obviously, but they want to know who you are, too. And you really, we really feel like it's your whole life up to now.

[15:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, good. Yeah. But we do, we definitely get the fix that we want.

[15:10] Eve Plumb: So good. Everything's in there. And, you know, not only did I have high expectations for the Brady Bunch, which was met, but also for Dawn: Portrait of a Teenage Romance. I mean, that's huge.

[15:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. All right. So and because we're on the Broadway Podcast Network, we also applaud your stage work. We love that.

[15:29] Eve Plumb: Oh, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Do you think that that's something that you'll want to do more of in New York?

[15:33] Eve Plumb: Of course. I always, I just always want to work whether it's a play or television or, you know, whatever. I would definitely love to do more plays and work on Broadway. I've done some regional theater. That's a lot of fun.

[15:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I get to travel and see other cities.

[15:52] Eve Plumb: I'm sure. Yeah, one of one of the things that I thought was really interesting when reading the book is that your sister, I guess, kind of telling you, you know, some people need the lightheartedness that the show brings into their life going in, you know, in darker times or in times of, you know, flux, which I think is something that still remains true. Do you find that a lot of people that approach you, that's kind of how they come to it like you that your show brought like this bright light into their home, you know, once a week?

[16:27] Eve Plumb: Yes, definitely. People really did enjoy the simplicity and the conciseness of the whole show and the bright colors and the silly jokes. You know, it's such a crazy thing because, you know, you've lived a whole life, but you're kind of stuck in a way in these five years that you made this show because that's what people see over and over for decades now. Not that you're stuck, but you know what I mean. Do you think do most people get it that that was just a small period in your life?

[16:57] Eve Plumb: A few people think that, but often people associate me with that or put themselves in that place and think that it was an actual place and they put a little bit too much importance on that time. Yeah, I mean, it's hard when you're a child actor because, you know, you have to grow. That's the natural thing. And, you know, there's pressure not to in certain ways because the show wants you to stay the same. You know, we've talked to actors who played Annie and they felt that pressure of, you know, if they grow, they're going to lose their job. But it seems like from reading the book and tell me if this is wrong, that your parents really helped you and gave you a very good basis. So you didn't really have too many problems in that way.

[17:38] Eve Plumb: Exactly. Yes. My parents were always very supportive. And fortunately on Brady, it was about kids. So we were allowed to grow when it was about growing up. So that was fortunate. But something like Annie, maybe they should just build that in when you audition, say, if you get this job, that's great. But there'll be a point where you won't be able to play Annie anymore.

[17:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. So Ross is a kid. They should say you can only do it for a year and that's it, no matter what.

[18:04] Eve Plumb: Right. When you started this, I can't imagine there was any way to even remotely understand what the trajectory would be in a pop culture sense, because like you said in the book, you guys never cracked the top 30 in ratings. And, you know, I think I think there was even a line you said that nowadays, if a show performed that way, the way it started, it wouldn't even see another the rest of the season, let alone five seasons.

[18:35] Eve Plumb: Right. Yeah. A lot of things aren't given the chance that they need to be successful. And it's even more difficult with so many platforms for people to have shows. And then there's this weird thing where now shows will say a season is six episodes, eight episodes. You know, but said that something like Law and Order is still doing 20 or 24. So yeah, it's and it's always so strange to me that the Apple shows take a year in between season. I've forgotten who those people were. Yeah, I don't I want to see a season. But, you know, right. Take that long. I'm sorry. We were doing 20 and 20. We're doing 20 episodes in 20 weeks. And you're going to school at the same time.

[19:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Yes. You know, what was it like being in school on the off time, you know, with kids who were not actors that must have been so difficult. I mean, you definitely address it in the book. But even deeper, if you can give me a little insight.

[19:31] Eve Plumb: Well, it was always strange because you've been away. And so you don't have those relationships. You don't have those inside jokes. I started going to private school, which meant the classes were smaller, and everybody was a little bit different. So that helped.

[19:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that's right. Your parents found you another school for a sort of right, an alternative school for kids who had.

[19:51] Eve Plumb: Well, yeah, it was just it was just a private school of individual education or whatever. So smaller classes and then they were able to give understand that when I was absent, I was still getting schooling and the public school system wasn't doing that.

[20:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Got it. Now, did you have did you ever think that you might look like Imogene Coca when you grew up?

[20:11] Eve Plumb: No, I don't think anybody thought that it was so funny. But I was saying to Bruce, I wonder if Imogene Coca was insulted that that it was such a thing.

[20:19] Eve Plumb: No, I think she was a comedian. And, you know, it was a job and she knew Sherwood and it was a chance to do a silly part. Yeah. And it was a chance to address the idea of beauty and aging. Well, that's what you did in a very, very light way. But yeah.

[20:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, that is actually a good point, because that's not something that was ever talked about on television.

[20:42] Eve Plumb: Right. Right. One of my favorite episodes, I still remember it so vividly because I thought it would be a real world problem that I would occur was when I first started learning to do laundry, that if I put too much soap in, that the entire place would flood with suds. As a child thinking that must have been really cool, learning how to do laundry, being like, well, what's the solve for that problem? Were you guys caught up in the frenzy of like playing in that? Like what was that like to film a scene like that?

[21:16] Eve Plumb: Gosh, you've got me on something I don't remember. Okay. But I do know that that was a scene that I guess it was Bobby that had done the laundry, put too much stuff in there. But oddly enough, I had done a pilot called The Barbara Rush Show, when I was about six, seven, eight, I don't know another one that didn't go. And part of my part was that I had I had somehow made the bubble bath get too big. And so the mother was calling Barbara Smith calling me, you know, do you want to come down, come down right now? Yes, right this very minute now. And then I come out and I'm covered in bubbles. And I say, it just kept going and going and going. And so it's another two. I've had to do two bubble performances in my life. Not many actors can call that skill on the resume.

[22:01] Bruce Gotlieb: They're right. Working with bubbles. That's right. Well, you know, every little thing helps. What struck me so much was just how successful you are long before the Brady Bunch. Just, you know, the rate that you would book jobs was incredible. I don't want to say this the wrong way. It's almost like you knew how to be a people pleaser at a very young age. I'm not saying that you are that now. I'm just saying that you knew sort of what to do to get the job.

[22:26] Eve Plumb: I guess so. And also, like I say, I could I could read I could take direction. I was a great mimic. So that was it just and I was sort of the flavor of the day. I was a little blonde hair, blue eyed kid. Yeah. You know, and that was that was popular. But then you didn't really think about sort of acting training until you work with Radcliffe. And he he gave you right. You got to really think about how you would react in a certain situation. Can you tell people about that?

[22:58] Eve Plumb: Yeah, I was doing Dawn: Portrait of a Teenage Runaway and I was dressed as a hooker in a rabbit fur coat that kept getting stuck in my eyes. And we were actually filming on Hollywood Boulevard. And so I was standing next to the curb and a guy pulls up in a car and says, come on, get in. And I was like, he's not with the show. Wait a minute. And so I was frightened and I ran to Randall. I said, oh my God, a guy just just tried to pick me up. And he said, use it, which I didn't know what that meant. But that's a common acting and acting thing that you do, where if you're thrown with something, you figure out a way to use that emotion, use that fear, use that surprise, whatever it is, you build that into your performance or you recall that when you're performing. And, you know, it's a very simple, very effective direction.

[23:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Did you feel like that was a turning point in a way, though, how you approached work after that?

[23:51] Eve Plumb: A little bit. It was definitely different to be the only sort of the star of the show and all of that. So but it was good to do something different and to be with a great director.

[24:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if people know, but Randall Kleiser directing for East and also the very wonderful It's My Party. He's also Blue Lagoon. I didn't realize that. I think so. Yeah. And he just went to the opening of the Lucas Museum.

[24:15] Eve Plumb: Oh, wow. Incredible. So was Blue Lagoon something that you went out for?

[24:21] Eve Plumb: No, I think I was too old. I mean, Brooke, I think was like 13, 14. OK, but you did you did audition for The Exorcist, which is really good.

[24:34] Eve Plumb: Yeah, I'm so glad I didn't get that. It's pretty awful. Terrified me.

[24:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. So you're not a horror movie person?

[24:39] Eve Plumb: No, I'm not. But I do read all of Stephen King.

[24:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Oh, well. Yeah.

[24:45] Eve Plumb: Yeah. So good. The Exorcist is, I think, the best horror movie there is. How far in the process did you get or did you withdraw because you didn't like?

[24:51] Eve Plumb: No, no. I think I went in for a reading and that was it. Yeah. Oh, so I don't think I was even put on film. And then Linda Blair came. I think that it was sort of an accident how she got in. I think her mother knew someone and just sort of pushed her in. I don't even have an appointment. So.

[25:14] Bruce Gotlieb: OK. It's so funny how these things work out. And it's funny. Speaking of auditions, you know, you describe what it was like to audition for the Brady Bunch. And it's so interesting that, you know, like you said, you guys sat down with Sherwood and he just wanted to get to know you as an individual. It wasn't really about putting you on camera and writing a scene. And maybe that speaks to why the six of you worked as like as real people and real, real siblings amongst each other, because that was the angle in not who's going to be able to portray or read a line.

[25:50] Eve Plumb: Right. I think that even though he said he wanted, quote unquote, real kids, the fact that we had all done work before was really helpful as well, because it can be quite confusing if you haven't done it before to go on a set and how you have to do it, what the choreography is, what the timing is of rehearsing and getting into wardrobe and then actually doing this take and doing it again and again and again. So if you haven't had any practice at that, that could be, you know, difficult for a kid. And also the way you describe it in the book, it's not like there was tons of time to really go over things.

[27:07] Eve Plumb: Your mom was the one who was with you and the care you got was atypical, sadly. It would have been great if everyone had such attention. But then you talk about, which is really interesting, the day that you didn't need her anymore to drive you. You said she didn't bring her feelings to you at the time, but did you ever have that discussion later on?

[27:34] I didn't, no. This is why you have to do these things before people die. It's taken me a long time to even realize how it was, so we never really got a chance to talk about it. I know Neil Patrick Harris had a similar situation on Doogie Howser. His mom, they would just put her in a chair, no one would talk to her and his heart broke for her. He was so appreciative that she uprooted her family to let him have his career, so it wouldn't be such a hard thing. But luckily, you didn't have that. I also am so impressed how detailed records your parents kept of all your earnings.

[28:12] Yes, the earnings, yes. My dad had written a memoir, and then he stopped right about the time I had been getting work because he was injured. He either hurt his shoulder or something, so he never picked up that part. There's a lot that we don't get. I'm sure you've had this with people that have gone away, that you're like, I'm going to ask my sister. No, you just don't ever know what their point of view was or what actually happened.

[28:47] I know. It's the worst when there's something great and there's no one to tell it to. I also think it's so interesting to look at something. We don't necessarily know why, but for whatever reason, it has kind of sustained all of these years of just in people's hearts and people's minds that there's no predictability. You don't know why one thing lasts versus another, but it seems as though just from the very top that everything was layered in so much professionalism within the Brady Bunch.

[29:17] You speak about it, about Florence Henderson and Anne B. Davis and just how dedicated they were to their craft, and that, I guess, helped you guys, and you just wanted to be able to spend as much time with them as possible to kind of, I guess, just sponge off of them.

[29:34] Well, yeah, and I think that it's a time where they were leading by example, and Florence has four kids, so she was great at corralling us. I think that you just mirror what you see. If I see Anne B. Davis being professional and Robert Reed as well and nobody acting horribly, that's what you take on yourself.

[30:03] Yeah, and Florence always seemed just so fancy. I mean, her career in and of itself, she just seemed like you wanted to be around that.

[30:09] Right, yeah. Well, she's a charismatic person.

[30:16] Yeah. I have a friend who worked with her later in a movie, and he said she was just the most fun to be with.

[30:24] Yes, definitely.

[30:24] Eve Plumb: Hey, I'm very curious to know, did your sister date John Rubenstein before Pippin?

[30:30] Wow. I didn't know that. I didn't put his name in the book, did I?

[30:38] Yeah, it's in the book.

[30:40] I thought that I had taken it out.

[30:40] Oh, no, it's in there. Well, it's in the copy I got. Maybe that wasn't the finished copy, so we can take that question out.

[30:45] Maybe so. It's just that, I mean, there's no bad blood or anything. I just decided that I didn't want to, I mean, I didn't want to have to ask him if it was okay, and I didn't want it to just, there's nothing wrong. But yes, she did date him, and that was before Pippin, but he became a friend of the family, and my father even represented him for a while as an agent.

[31:07] So, actually, I do remember seeing Min Pippin. We were in New York. I don't think that was the Robert Reed trip, but it might have been. I'd have to check the dates. When we went to London, because he took us to New York first, I don't know if that was the Pippin, but I do remember seeing, that was the only version of Pippin I've ever seen, so yeah.

[31:25] And actually, many, many years later, I had auditioned for the touring company of Pippin to play the grandmother, but this was the carnival version, and I mean, I wanted to do the Irene Ryan version where she's sitting on a hay bale, but you know, so I went and I did the singing audition, and I passed that, and then I went to do a practice with, you know, on a trapeze, and there is nothing more comfortable you ever sit on than a trapeze.

[32:00] Oh my God, so uncomfortable, and I had just gotten, we'd just taken a long car trip, so I was not in any kind of shape to do it, and they were very kind. They're like, well, we only have this many weeks to train her, and it would take, probably take longer than that.

[32:16] Yeah. So, yeah, and that's another thing, not that I'm glad I didn't get it, but it's a very difficult role to play, to sing like that while you're on a trapeze with no net.

[32:22] Right. Hanging upside down, yeah.

[32:27] Hanging upside down, which is not something I've ever done at all, like even on the playground as a kid, I didn't like doing that, so, but I would love to sing that song. It's a great song, and it'll bring tears to your eyes.

[32:38] It is. Well, you have Andrew Martin to blame for that.

[32:42] That's right. Because when she was offered the part, it was supposed to be the Irene Ryan style, and she said, well, if I'm going to be in this, I want to be like everyone else.

[32:50] Oh, no. I know. So, she ruined it for everyone.

[32:50] But, so then, the other part of that story is that John Rubenstein was playing the grandfather part, the father part of Pippin.

[33:03] So, yeah, that was a 13-month tour. That would have been interesting.

[33:03] Did you ever get to do any of those Battle of the Network Stars or Circus of the Stars?

[33:09] I think we did a Battle of the Network Stars back in the 70s where we were swimming. I remember swimming.

[33:14] Yeah, and running. I was better at swimming than running.

[33:21] Yeah, me too. Those were always so fun to watch.

[33:25] I know. Even now, I think people, you know, like they still watch them in reruns, you know.

[33:31] What were your thoughts when you got toward, I guess, you know, the later years as a Brady, and then, you know, obviously, we know you didn't do the variety show, but it then went into, like, you know, the TV movies, and like, it kept kind of building. Was there ever a part of you that was like trying to, you know, you try to move on to try to do other things, and sometimes, you know, they won't let you. They keep pulling you back for more.

[33:55] Exactly. Yeah, it was kind of like that. But, you know, it's a good opportunity to work and to bring the show to new generations.

[34:00] Right. Yeah.

[34:06] Eve Plumb: Yeah. Why not? And also, the Brady Brites. That's so much fun. Plus, you're the star of the show, you and Maureen.

[34:11] That's right. Right.

[34:17] Yeah. I love sitcoms, and it was a live audience. It was great. So, I, in retrospect, as an adult now, thinking about it, I think Jan's husband was way better than Wally. Wally was a big screw-up, but I think Philip was the way to go. Jan was smart.

[34:31] One of the things that I have loved that you've done subsequently, years later, is some of those comedy things. You know, you got the Dragging the Classics version of the Brady Bunch.

[34:45] Right. Yeah. Which is just so much fun, and, you know, Grease Live, you know, being able to just lean into that. Is the comedy sense of it all, that physical comedy, something that you always loved doing?

[35:01] Yeah. And that came out of studying at the Groundlings. So, that's given me confidence in comedy. And so, that's great. It's fun to do. Oftentimes, I joke with my manager about, you know, they'll show me in an audition, and I'm like, okay, crying mom, I can do this. I get a lot of crying mom stuff.

[35:20] Yeah. But how smart? Because, you know, clearly, you had a background in comedy, but, you know, you still went and learned a different skill with it. And it just, it probably, yeah, it took you to another level of what you could do.

[35:34] Right. You got to be on one of my favorite shows, Facts of Life. Plus, you got to be on Love Boat and Anastasia Island. We actually had Alison Arngrim on the show, and she said that you played her mother.

[35:44] Right. Her mother, one of you was the other's mother.

[35:49] Yeah. It was an opportunity to get the two of us in hooker wear.

[35:55] Your second go around with that.

[35:55] Right. Yeah.

[35:59] Eve Plumb: Was it fun being a guest star on the show?

[35:59] It was, because, especially with both of those shows, they would call up and say, do you want to work next week? It was just offered, you know. So, that was easy.

[36:09] That is nice.

[36:09] I mean, you know, being on the Brady Bunch, I'm sure, it comes with things that I'm sure can be annoying, but I can only imagine the gifts that it gives you, gave you, have been so much more than any kind of drawback.

[36:26] Absolutely. Is there just so much goodwill?

[36:28] Yes. Yeah. That's what's nice, is that I don't know anybody that doesn't like the Brady Bunch.

[36:34] I know. How could they not? But then there's also a whole generation of kids that don't know you from the Brady Bunch, but they know you because you were Fudge's mom.

[36:42] Well, I would hope so. You know, that's another time where that show could have gone on for, you know, another couple of seasons, but Disney bought ABC, so we were out of a job.

[36:54] But I feel like, anyway, that show came with a built-in audience because so many people loved those books.

[37:00] Oh, yeah. Definitely.

[37:00] So, just to be part of something like that is just amazing, and you got to do two of those.

[37:07] Right. You know, not many people have that.

[37:12] Yeah. And then, also, you know, for other fans of a different type, too, even though they weren't, you know, necessarily big roles, you know, then you got to dabble in the soap world, which everybody loves. But from the, obviously, the pace and what's expected in a soap environment is different than in a sitcom environment. Obviously, you have to adapt, but how did that feel to try to, like, they go at a speed that is like nothing else?

[37:33] That's true. And it's a completely different way that they, not only that they shoot it, but the backstage is very different, as well, because on a film set, you're quiet, you film, and then they break, and everybody talks, and you go to the makeup room, and there's more of a community. With the soap, they are recording pretty much all the time, so the set is completely silent all the time.

[37:56] And then the makeup room is only where you go to get made up, and then you have a small dressing room in a hallway, so you feel, I felt very separated from everybody, which was too bad.

[38:10] What was the other soap opera I did besides All My Children?

[38:13] Days of Our Lives, which I only know because it's my favorite.

[38:16] Thank you. But again, it was Crying Mom, and the scene was with the famous actress from the show.

[38:22] Oh, with Deidre Hall?

[38:24] Yes, Deidre Hall. Yes, thank you. So, we do the scene, we're about to do the scene, and she says, and they said, okay, are we ready? I said, yeah. And she says, well, no, give her a minute, give her a minute. I'm like, no, honey, I got this.

[38:36] And I cry, and I cry. She's like, how did you do that? I'm like, you know, it's what I do.

[38:41] So, then later, they said, okay, if we're going to take some photos of you and Deidre, and she was off in the other room, she's like, why am I taking photos with her?

[38:48] Oh, that's so funny.

[38:50] That's off the other room. She didn't know who I was.

[38:53] That's so funny. Wow.

[38:56] Why am I taking pictures with her?

[38:56] Well, she's a lecture woman, so, you know, she has a fan base that goes beyond Deidre Hall, too.

[39:03] That's so funny. Well, that must be nice that not everybody just looks from that Jan spot.

[39:10] Well, it's great. And then I get to just live my life, and I don't expect anybody to, you know, pay any attention to me other than, here's your change, ma'am, you know?

[39:19] But that crying on cue skill, you had that as a kid, didn't you?

[39:23] Yeah, I did. Yeah, my mom, I don't know how she learned it. I don't think she took acting, but yeah, so it's something I've always been able to do. I call it a magic trick, and it's helpful because in, I'm sorry, in film, you can't always be like, you know, because your body doesn't, like we say in acting, your body doesn't know you're not actually angry.

[39:43] Yeah. If you're playing an angry scene, your body doesn't know, you come off and you're like, God. So same thing with creating the tears, you bring the physicality up, and then you're saying the emotions, and then that all just flows right.

[41:24] Eve Plumb: People still need to be reminded that breast cancer isn't one disease; everybody's breast cancer is different. I mean, within parameters, that's what's been done so well is all the research has discovered that your cancer is different than mine, just a little bit, and mine has got something else that's a little bit different. There are so many drugs that have been developed; there was one that I used called Herceptin that was specifically for my type of breast cancer.

[41:58] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right, and there's, right, different.

[42:01] Eve Plumb: And they've had so much. So, you know, I've had friends who've had a mastectomy, I've had a friend who's only had chemo, I've had a friend who's only had, not even intravenous chemo.

[42:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, and the day I was diagnosed, they told me 95% survival rate, so people should—

[42:17] Eve Plumb: Wow.

[42:18] Bruce Gotlieb: That's brave, because they don't usually do that, I don't think they usually do that.

[42:23] Eve Plumb: I know.

[42:24] Bruce Gotlieb: But I guess they know now with where you are and how severe it is and what type it is.

[42:30] Eve Plumb: Right, but, you know, I think that people should know it's definitely not a death sentence for most.

[42:36] Bruce Gotlieb: No, not anymore, because when I was growing up, I don't know if you remember, when people didn't talk about it, and one of the first books to talk about it was one called First You Cry.

[42:45] Eve Plumb: I remember that; I think they made a TV movie from it.

[42:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and it was because it was pretty much a death sentence, and so that was what was resonating in my head too when I was diagnosed. All the emotions, all the things about it, am I going to have to have a double mastectomy? What will it be like to live without breasts?

[43:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[43:06] Eve Plumb: And the breasts are so emotionally laden, you know, it's like if I had finger cancer, I'd be like, yeah, whatevs, but the breasts are so emotionally laden as a whole thing in our society.

[43:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, for sure.

[43:18] Eve Plumb: That it's different.

[43:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, yeah, but I'm so glad that you're well and have been well for 10 years; that's amazing.

[43:25] Eve Plumb: Thank you. Yeah, at least, see, it was 2013, so it's, yeah.

[43:28] Bruce Gotlieb: More than that.

[43:29] Eve Plumb: Longer now.

[43:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, excellent.

[43:31] Eve Plumb: And so, yeah, you've got to get your mammograms, and they've got to figure out a better way to do it because it's not comfortable, shall we say?

[43:39] Bruce Gotlieb: No, but it is more comfortable than having cancer, so if someone is afraid.

[43:43] Eve Plumb: That's true. If someone's afraid of a mammogram, just do it anyway because it's better.

[43:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, right. Don't wait.

[43:49] Eve Plumb: Yeah, exactly. Because actually, when I had my surgery, they got it just as it was spreading to my lymph nodes, so.

[43:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[43:56] Eve Plumb: So it's very important to do it as soon as you notice anything, and it doesn't have to be a myth.

[44:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly. I mean, I don't want to make this PSA, but people should know.

[44:03] Eve Plumb: No, that's all right. Anything that is just a little abnormal, just get it checked.

[44:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Get it checked.

[44:09] Eve Plumb: Yeah.

[44:10] Bruce Gotlieb: So what made you decide, I guess, the point when you sat down to write this memoir that now's the time, I feel compelled to share my story with the world?

[44:24] Eve Plumb: It may have been a time that somebody else contacted me to ask me to tell them my Brady Bunch stories for their book. And I said, you know what, if I'm going to tell my stories, I'm going to do it in my own book.

[44:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[44:38] Eve Plumb: You know, I have been not doing this for so long that now I can do it, and it'll be fresh.

[44:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Do you feel like people have a preconception about you? I'm asking because of the way that you address certain things in the book.

[44:50] Eve Plumb: I don't know. I don't really worry about it because you really can't go into every interaction thinking, well, they think I'm X, Y, Z, you know? So no.

[45:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[45:03] Eve Plumb: Well, that's great. I love that you have a line, and if people want to ask you that, you say no, and you have no problem saying no, like you're not going to repeat things that you said in the 70s. You don't need to do that. And I think that that's really admirable.

[45:20] Eve Plumb: Thank you. Yeah.

[45:22] Eve Plumb: I mean, yeah. No is a complete sentence.

[45:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, exactly.

[45:25] Eve Plumb: That's right.

[45:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly. But it's, you know, that can be so hard, especially when people think they know you for one thing.

[45:31] Eve Plumb: Right.

[45:33] Eve Plumb: And that's something to deal with, is that, you know, I'm not responsible for what they think of me.

[45:38] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. There was a wonderful book once called, What You Think of Me is None of My Business. You know, and that's difficult to do because we're all human. You want to be liked, and you want to make friends. So it's quite a balance to try to be what you think they want you to be when they meet you.

[46:00] Eve Plumb: Right.

[46:01] Eve Plumb: You know, this is a whole different thing, is that when I go to meet people, do they know who I am? And they're being cool? Because I had a friendship with a gal for like a month or so, and it's like, listen, I got to tell you something. You know, do you know? And she's like, yo, I know. I'm like, you're being cool. You're being that cool. And then other people I've had to let know. And that's really uncomfortable for me.

[46:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Well, yes. I can probably see why.

[46:28] Eve Plumb: To say, so do you know who I am?

[46:29] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[46:30] Eve Plumb: You know, if you have to ask, it feels like—

[46:34] Bruce Gotlieb: But it's not that. It's sort of like an elephant's in the room either way.

[46:38] Eve Plumb: Right.

[46:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Because then if they find out and you didn't say anything—

[46:42] Eve Plumb: Then they're embarrassed.

[46:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[46:44] Eve Plumb: And they're apologetic. And I'm like, I don't care. It's fine.

[46:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. Right. I mean, I know that people fixate on one thing, but I don't think anybody thinks that you're still living in that time period.

[46:53] Eve Plumb: No.

[46:56] Eve Plumb: Yeah. And I want to talk about your art.

[46:59] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[47:01] Eve Plumb: Is that your passion at this point in your life?

[47:03] Eve Plumb: Yes. Yes. Painting is just wonderful. I love to do it. It's something I get to do anytime I want and do it however I want. People think, oh, it's so relaxing, but it's actually work. You have to work at it. It's not like it just comes out of the brush on its own. So it can be really frustrating. But if you keep at it long enough to put something on the canvas that you like, then it's rewarding.

[47:27] Bruce Gotlieb: But it's always been a skill you had. I remember hearing other stories from the Brady Bunch where people said you would draw things and make—

[47:34] Eve Plumb: Right. I would draw. But yeah, I had to develop the skill, you know.

[47:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Did you go to art school?

[47:41] Eve Plumb: No. I took an art class in college because I only went to college for one year. And I'm trying to think of why I got the D. I think it was because I didn't show up to class because I dislocated my knee doing a dance thing. So that sort of made me feel like, well, I'm not talented enough, which is whatever, you know. I was 18. So I didn't go to art school. I'm self-taught. So I've, you know, asked other artists what they do. I've learned text and tried lots of techniques and trial and error.

[48:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. I know professional artists who brush up on courses on YouTube. Like they find that—

[48:17] Eve Plumb: Right. Yeah.

[48:19] Eve Plumb: And then on Instagram, artists are doing—showing how they do with techniques and things.

[48:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[48:25] Eve Plumb: So—

[48:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Just randomly on Instagram.

[48:27] Eve Plumb: Yes.

[48:28] Bruce Gotlieb: How often do you get to show as an artist?

[48:30] Eve Plumb: I haven't done that in a while. You know, different interests, different time and moving a couple of times.

[48:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[48:36] Eve Plumb: So it's been a while.

[48:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Do you think at some point you'll do that in New York where we can come and see it?

[48:42] Eve Plumb: Oh, sure. Yeah. There's a gallery I have in New York. It's been a while. I do—I did do shows there. I did one during COVID because they have this very small gallery. It's in a house on the Upper East Side. And I had made this series of paintings from the film noir series called Anxiety. And it was film noir images of like hands and then the hand reaching for a phone and like, you know, anxious.

[49:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[49:10] Eve Plumb: It was apropos for the time anyway, right?

[49:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. That was the idea.

[49:15] Eve Plumb: Yeah.

[49:16] Bruce Gotlieb: For sure.

[49:17] Eve Plumb: I did this documentary in New York. It was a two-part documentary just last night. And that was—

[49:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, I want to watch that.

[49:22] Eve Plumb: It was really good. I will text you what it's called.

[49:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[49:27] Eve Plumb: It's called New York.

[49:28] Bruce Gotlieb: It's by Rick Burns, right?

[49:29] Eve Plumb: Oh, you know it. Yeah.

[49:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. No, that's exactly it. Yes.

[49:34] Eve Plumb: Yeah. It was really good. Part one was fascinating.

[49:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[49:38] Eve Plumb: And part two was much more recent about the pandemic and about—

[49:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[49:40] Eve Plumb: Yeah. It was really, really good.

[49:42] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[49:43] Eve Plumb: So other than obviously people running out to buy your book if they haven't already read it, is there anything else coming up that people could keep an eye out for you? Projects that you might be doing?

[49:51] Eve Plumb: There might be. There might be, but it is still in its infancy.

[49:57] Bruce Gotlieb: We understand.

[49:58] Eve Plumb: So I don't believe that will come out. But if it doesn't, then I haven't—

[50:00] Bruce Gotlieb: I know.

[50:01] Eve Plumb: You know, said, yeah, I'm going to do this thing, and then it doesn't happen.

[50:04] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. I know. Well, I have to tell you that I read your book in a day because I didn't want to—

[50:08] Eve Plumb: Wow.

[50:09] Bruce Gotlieb: —break down.

[50:10] Eve Plumb: I know.

[50:11] Bruce Gotlieb: Thank you.

[50:12] Eve Plumb: Yes. It's so readable. I mean, you can read it right here, right away, and then the rest of it just gets even more interesting.

[50:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, thank you.

[50:19] Eve Plumb: The stuff we didn't know about you. So, you know, I hope that people will buy it. I know publishers like you to get it on their website, but it's on Amazon. It's everywhere. Just get it. It doesn't matter where, right?

[50:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Mm-hmm.

[50:31] Eve Plumb: And it's called Happiness Included. Is it Jan Brady and beyond? Is that your reading title?

[50:35] Eve Plumb: Yes.

[50:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. I guess tell our listeners why Happiness Included. Is there—

[50:41] Eve Plumb: Coming up with the name of something is always, I find, an interesting story in and of itself.

[50:45] Eve Plumb: When we started Plum Goods, the home accessories line we have, we worked with a branding guy, and he was crazy. He said, so finish this sentence. Plum Goods exists to, and I said, put a smile on your face. And then we worked all around that, and I think he came up with Happiness Included. Plum Goods. Happiness Included.

[51:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Perfect.

[51:11] Eve Plumb: So it's the tagline to Plum Goods.

[51:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Love it.

[51:13] Eve Plumb: And then we have Happiness Included Coffee, and—

[51:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[51:16] Eve Plumb: Yeah. Well, congratulations on that, too. I mean, you know.

[51:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Thanks.

[51:20] Eve Plumb: We have so much interesting stuff going on.

[51:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Thanks. Was the home goods line an inspiration for or inspired by the renovation, the Brady renovation series that happened on HGTV?

[51:29] Eve Plumb: I'm trying to think which happened first. I think we were already doing Plum Goods, but it was concurrent, and the idea with Plum Goods originally was going to be like, I'll just have an online store and buy things from China or whatever, cute key rings or whatever, and then I discovered that you can actually design and market your own products like we do, and that's when sort of came up with the idea of using the daisy as the anchor and, you know, coming up from that with all the other designs.

[51:59] Bruce Gotlieb: And where can people find a link to that where they can shop?

[52:03] Eve Plumb: It's called PlumGoods.TV. It's in most of my posts on Facebook and Instagram, and that's where all the beautiful things are, and that's what I've been doing, designing that way more than painting lately, you know, because that takes some time and effort, and then making sure that everybody gets their stuff.

[52:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Well, we'll make sure to put a link in our show notes so people can easily access it there, too.

[52:28] Eve Plumb: Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[52:30] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's the book, and we hope everyone gets the book because it's such a good read, and follow Eve on Instagram, on Facebook, wherever you want to find Eve.

[52:38] Eve Plumb: Yeah. Threads, also.

[52:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Isn't it so exciting to see your book on an actual bookshelf?

[52:43] Eve Plumb: It is. Yeah, and it's been great. I did a lot of tours and got a lot of folks, you know, sometimes 200 people, and I, you know, signed books for 200 people, yeah.

[52:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I'm not surprised. People still love you, and I think we'll always love you.

[52:57] Eve Plumb: Thank you.

[52:58] Bruce Gotlieb: As does our audience. Thank you so much for being on our show.

[53:01] Eve Plumb: Yes. Oh, thank you for having me.

[53:03] Bruce Gotlieb: And we will see everyone next time on Behind the Awards.

[53:05] Eve Plumb: Bye-bye.

[53:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Bye.