This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Eila Mell: Please be seated.

[0:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Thank you.

[0:08] Eila Mell: There are so many, many people that I really must thank and should, but the reality is I did it all myself.

[0:31] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. I'm here with Bruce. Today I'm here with two people, actually. I'm so excited. We have Anant Das, the founder of Broadway Boxed Up.

[0:43] Anant Das: Hello, you two.

[0:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Good morning.

[0:46] Anant Das: Good morning.

[0:47] Eila Mell: We are so thrilled to have you here with us.

[0:48] Anant Das: Thank you for having me.

[0:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Happy to be here.

[0:50] Eila Mell: Yeah. So, Bruce, why don't you explain why we have this wonderful guest with us right now?

[0:56] Bruce Gotlieb: We are here at Behind the Awards, partnering up and collaborating with Broadway Boxed Up, which we are thrilled about. It is a subscription-based Broadway lover. I guess what would you describe it as?

[1:20] Anant Das: That's a great question. I say, you know, Broadway Boxed Up, we're trying to put Broadway in a box any way we can, whether that's through theater-themed merchandise, memorabilia, programs, information about the industry, you name it. However, we can get the world of Broadway physically in a box, we will find a way to do so.

[1:39] Bruce Gotlieb: And it is that. It really is. I've been subscribing before this collaboration, and it's so fun every month to open up this box and see what you guys over there have created because what I guess everyone needs to know is it's not always merchandise from the show. It's merchandise that's inspired by shows. So you're getting a piece of Broadway in a unique way and in a way that is something that only you and the other subscribers have. It's not something anybody can get anywhere else, so it makes it really unique and special.

[2:11] Anant Das: Absolutely. We try to have a little of everything. There are lots of great things that the shows produce, and we've been forced to work with a lot of shows and help them produce that. But I think there's a lot of great things outside of that with the inspired world and the fan part world, and we want to make sure to include that part of the world as well because those theater fans are just as important in what they want and what they believe in and are just as important in part of the Broadway ecosystem.

[2:37] Eila Mell: What are some of the most exciting things that you've been able to include in the box?

[2:41] Anant Das: One of my probably all-time favorites was a collaboration we did with Kinky Boots. It came back off Broadway when we created this Kinky Boots pride design with Rainbow and the boots, and we did an enamel pin, we did a magnet, and it was just so much fun to be able to capture the essence of the show in a new way, in kind of a refreshed way six, seven, eight years after the original Broadway opened.

[3:09] Bruce Gotlieb: So when Eila and I were at the Tony Awards this year, we saw someone wearing something that came from the box. Eila, why don't you talk about that?

[3:15] Eila Mell: It's funny because you guys did these alphabet-inspired glasses for the movie that Cynthia Erivo wears in the green, and Anant and I were waiting for them to open up for entrance into part of the event. And I turned around and I whispered to Eila, I said, she's got on alphabet glasses. And I was like, wasn't sure, like, what are you talking about? I said they were just in the box recently. But she had the Glinda, the pink ones. But it was just so funny to see it out in the real world.

[3:51] Anant Das: That's awesome. I always, I'm always sometimes surprised to see our items in the wild. I forget that people actually receive this and wear it because I'm so used to the back end, packing it and putting it together and sending it out. And I forget, like, oh yeah, people get this and they use it and they wear it. And, you know, I get photos and emails and pictures all the time of people taking their water bottles to the theater or taking their theater program pouch or using their tote bag. And it just blows my mind that somehow these items are now all over the world with theater fans.

[4:21] Bruce Gotlieb: But this was the kind of thing where you only knew that it was inspired by a Broadway show because you were told. Otherwise, it just looked like a cool pair of glasses that you could get in, you know, like Sunglass Hut or wherever.

[4:37] Anant Das: A hundred percent. I think what's cool is we try to have some items that are, you know, so obviously Broadway, so obviously whatever theater show or theater memorabilia. We try to have some items that are a little bit more subtle.

[4:49] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[4:49] Anant Das: And you know, I find every person likes something a little bit different. We try to have something for everyone, the subtle things, the really loud in-your-face things, the practical things, the more souvenir things you can admire. So something for everyone.

[5:01] Bruce Gotlieb: The great thing too is so what started me from subscribing to this was I had been getting ads as I'm scrolling through. So I kept being like, what is this? What is this? So eventually I did it. Was when you guys did the Jagged Little Pill tote bag a few years back. So that's kind of what catapulted into it. So I was in the city, I figured what show I was seeing at the tote bag, and somebody walked up to me and was like, I have that bag at home. I know where you got it. So it was like this secret little society that we were part of. So we had a quick little, you know, minute conversation, and it was fun. We each knew each other was, you know, subscribers.

[5:40] Anant Das: That's awesome. That's absolutely incredible. So we are so happy to be your official podcast now. So we hope that we can do episodes that echo what's coming up in the box. I think that's gonna be so exciting for us.

[5:57] Eila Mell: I'm so thrilled about it. I think this collaboration makes so much sense. I'm excited, you know, to start sharing more information about award shows and award seasons and all the special guests you have with our subscribers. You know, a big part about the box and why it was created was really the theater education part as well. You know, so many folks, especially those who don't have the fortune to live in New York and be able to attend Broadway shows all the time, you can feel so distant from the world of theater when you're not in New York City. And there's so many things you may not know about, you know, whether actors who haven't performed in many years or upcoming shows you may not know about. And I'm just so excited to be able to share some of that knowledge, education, and excitement with all of our subscribers that you have in each of your podcast episodes.

[6:44] Anant Das: And what's amazing too is that, you know, obviously your excitement and enthusiasm for theater, just because we've gotten to know you, really comes through in everything you do, but you're also reaching, you know, it's not just people in the New York area or, you know, tri-state area. You're global, you're all over the place. So, which is amazing that you're not only reaching different areas, you know, people talk about all the time how they're living in like a rural city that doesn't have theater, and the Tonys is how they get to experience theater, and you're bringing them that, you know, on a monthly basis if they wanted, or they can come in and buy one-off items, and you're not only doing it here, you're doing it globally, which is just amazing.

[7:22] Anant Das: A hundred percent. When I started Broadway Boxed Up, we started October 2020. So it was a way to bring theater to people when there was no theater during the pandemic. And I wasn't sure the subscription box would last once theater reopened. You know, I kind of thought people might divert back to seeing theater or however they used to get theater. And it's only grown since then. So many folks don't have access to theater, don't know where to find theater near them. And I remember growing up near Washington, D.C. I lived 10 miles away. I had no idea about the great theater scene in D.C. until I was in college. And so if I live so close to a major city, didn't know about all these great regional theaters.

I know there are folks all over the country and the world who either don't know there's a theater right by them or near theater. And so we kind of fill that void for that, in a very similar way that the Tony Awards that broadcast connects a lot of people to the theater world each year.

[8:15] Bruce Gotlieb: And what's so great is that even if you are in a city with theater, you know, we're in New York, it's still the box is a great supplement to that. It's, and it, you know, it's so exciting to get a big, great package every month.

[8:28] Anant Das: Oh, yeah. You know, I think everyone loves receiving things in the mail. We love doing something. We love unboxing. There's like excitement with it. I think that experience is half the excitement, just seeing what's in there.

[8:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly. With any subscription box, it's all about that experience with the unboxing and seeing what's in there and what it's gonna be. Some folks love getting previews. We always post previews on social media ahead of time, and that increases excitement for them. Some folks, they're like, we don't want to know, we wanted a complete surprise. And so we try to tailor something for everyone so everyone can have the experience they want. But you're so right. Even if you live in New York, folks love it. Actually, it's our biggest contingent of folks is from the New York metro area.

[9:06] Anant Das: Yeah, no surprise there. You're immersed in theater because in addition to having this great company, you also produce shows. So can you tell us some of the shows that you are working on that you're excited about?

[9:19] Anant Das: Absolutely. You know, it's been so great to use this box and the subscription as a way to learn more about theater and kind of enter the producing world. And so right now, two national tours coming up. So the national tour, Beautiful Noise in the old diamond musical, kicking off fall 2024, and in winter spring 2025, a national tour of The Wiz that was just on Broadway. And then also on top of that, I'm really excited to be part of the producing team for Gypsy on Broadway in the fall, and then in the spring, Smash on Broadway. So lots of shows coming up.

[9:58] Bruce Gotlieb: These are huge, huge shows.

[10:00] Anant Das: I mean, yeah, you're involved with like the most anticipated shows of the season. And what great touring shows too. The Wiz and Beautiful Noise are really great for touring the country. We'll just eat them up. And what's really exciting, I feel like each show offers something for a different audience. And so it's really cool to be interacting with all these different audience spaces and different interests. And I think that's been my favorite part of the box and producing, just meeting theater fans with their unique tastes and seeing why one fan might like one show and not another. And it's just been my favorite part, just meeting the people.

[10:34] Bruce Gotlieb: How can people subscribe to the box?

[10:36] Anant Das: You can find us on social media or on our website, www.broadwayboxed.com, or we're at Broadway Boxed Up on all social media platforms.

[10:46] Bruce Gotlieb: All right. Well, we hope that you're gonna come back from time to time and maybe give us some scoops on what's going on, maybe give us exclusives on what's gonna be in the box.

[10:57] Anant Das: I would love to. I look forward to it. Thank you so much for having me.

[10:59] Eila Mell: Well, thank you, and we are so excited to be collaborating with you. And now we're gonna bring on our very special guest, Carol Burnett.

[11:10] Eila Mell: So not only is she our guest here today, but you're also gonna get to see her in your box when you get your subscription in September. So we're excited. We'll be right back. We have to listen to some commercials.

[11:25] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. We are, I mean, just beyond excited to welcome Carol Burnett to our show.

[11:34] Carol Burnett: Hello, Eila.

[11:36] Eila Mell: Hi, Carol. How are you doing?

[11:38] Carol Burnett: I am so excited to have you here.

[11:41] Eila Mell: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. We're thrilled.

[11:44] Carol Burnett: Well, I'm happy to be with you. Thank you.

[11:47] Eila Mell: So our show is called Behind the Awards because it's a companion to my Tony Awards book, which you are in, of course. Do you remember when I asked you to do the book and you said you didn't have a Tony Award? You didn't feel like you qualified?

[12:00] Carol Burnett: Right, yes. Because I got an honorary one, but I never got one for being in competition, you know, to win the award for a performance.

[12:12] Eila Mell: Right. Well, but clearly you have a Tony, and to just get one is an even bigger honor.

[12:18] Carol Burnett: So, you know, I was thrilled, you know, and it's nice to have it.

[12:24] Eila Mell: Oh my gosh. So let's just go through some of the awards that you've won. Yeah, you have just a few. Seven Emmys, including one from just last year.

[12:34] Carol Burnett: Yes.

[12:35] Eila Mell: Seven Golden Globes, got a Grammy, a Tony, a SAG Award. And then so I'm extremely impressed by this one. Not that the others aren't impressive, but you've got a Presidential Medal of Freedom. That's incredible.

[12:49] Carol Burnett: Yeah. And I was at the Kennedy Center. I love that one because all you do is you show up and you have wonderful food to eat. You sit in the balcony, you wave, you smile, you cry, but you don't have to give a speech. Everyone else is extolling you and your career with their virtues. So it's nice to just be able to probably be an observer.

[13:20] Eila Mell: Exactly. You know, they don't ask you to do anything but just show up, which is very nice.

[13:25] Carol Burnett: And they give you that cool medallion. It looks like you're an Olympic winner. You get to wear that.

[13:31] Eila Mell: I know. I know, I know, yeah. And I attended the first one I ever attended, the Kennedy Center honor, was when I was in the program honoring my favorite movie star and one of my favorite people, James Stewart.

[13:50] Carol Burnett: Yeah. And I was just thrilled and I took my daughter Carrie with me, and she turned twenty years old while we were there that weekend. And at the dinner after the honors, we were sitting at Jimmy's table with him and his wife and family, and I said, you know, it's my daughter's twentieth birthday today. And he excused himself from the table. He got up and one of the other honorees was Frank Sinatra and Count Basie's orchestra was there and the next thing we know is Jimmy got all of them together and they sang Happy Birthday to my daughter. Oh my gosh. Well it was incredible. I mean here's Count Basie, Jimmy Stewart, and a couple of other singers and Frank Sinatra and my daughter Carrie, God bless her, she looked at me and said, Okay Mom, what have you got planned for next year when I'm twenty-one? You can't top that.

[14:56] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I don't think so. So you know we have many award winners on our show, but you kind of win because not only are you an award winner, but you have an award that's named for you. There's a Golden Globe called the Carol Burnett Lifetime Achievement Award.

[15:12] Carol Burnett: Yeah, I was pretty surprised at that and of course thrilled. And that was quite an honor, I must say. How did that come to be?

[15:24] Bruce Gotlieb: How did they uh I'm assuming they reached out and said we're going to do this and you had to sign off on it.

[15:31] Carol Burnett: Oh yes when they said that I said oh my gosh and they you know of course I was I was on I don't know how it came about they just I don't know, they thought of me and just said okay let's go for it. Yeah, it was.

[15:48] Carol Burnett: But I remember my very first award was when I was at UCLA I was a freshman and I got an award from the theater arts department the most promising newcomer. Oh well that's certain that was way back in nineteen fifty-two and that's my first it's like a little parchment paper and it's written on you know and I have that in my office as a very first one and I cherish it.

[16:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Ah. Well you have a few awards in your office, right? Aren't they all in the same place together?

[16:26] Carol Burnett: Yeah. Oh it's quite a sight. It's a mix. Well you were there.

[16:32] Bruce Gotlieb: I was. I was. Alright so I watched Palm Royale. I can't get enough of it. I can't wait for it to come back. How much fun was that to do?

[16:45] Carol Burnett: Oh I loved it. In fact when they first called me this is two couple of years ago, my goodness and they said we love you to be in this show that we're gonna be doing for Apple TV and I said well what is it? And all they did was first they told me who was gonna be in it. Yeah. Kristen Wiig and Alison Janney and Laura Dern and Ricky Martin and Leslie Bibb and Josh Lou I mean on and on and on. I said okay I didn't even care. I said as long as I'm gonna be working with those people I that that was it. And then they sent me the script and I love that. And of course but at first they said, I'm gonna be in a coma for several my character will be in a coma for several episodes. That was kind of fun too.

[17:40] Carol Burnett: Yeah, I didn't have to do much except get up, go to the studio, get made up and go right back to bed.

[17:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, well that's nice. And you look amazing. I mean there's a lot of really tight shots of just your face and you look gorgeous.

[17:53] Carol Burnett: Oh well thank you. Thank you. They do a lot with lighting, let me put it that way.

[17:59] Carol Burnett: It's funny because when Islas started watching it, I started a little after her and she said to me, Just wait till you see. Carol does just so much with her eyes.

[18:13] Carol Burnett: There wasn't much else I could do just lying there, you know. This was the scene when you were blinking to communicate.

[18:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Hilarious.

[18:21] Carol Burnett: Just with blinking you were so funny.

[18:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Thank you. But then I don't want people to think that that's all you do because, you know, I not to give anything away, but you do a lot more than just lie in bed.

[18:35] Carol Burnett: Oh yeah, no, finally the character starts to wake up and tries to talk. And of course she's had a stroke and so I asked the director, I said, Well what do I do? You know, 'cause she can't really formulate the words yet. Yeah. And she has trouble. He said, Well just do gibberish. So I said, Oh, okay. So that's what I did. I made up you can't write gibberish in a script. You know, there's no way. So he just let me go and do what I wanted to do. But the thing is when I did it, you know, all of those words trying to come out, I knew what I was trying to say but couldn't say it, so I had to make that come across that I like if I if I wanted to say, I'd like to go into the other room, for instance, as a piece of dialogue. I tried to convey that through the gibberish.

[19:35] Carol Burnett: So you know, doing a lot of false syllables and things like that. I tried to get meaning behind all of the gibberish that I did.

[19:43] Bruce Gotlieb: They definitely came across and there were points where you could start to understand what you were saying.

[19:49] Carol Burnett: Yeah, just gradually she comes out of it. She has a secret. She doesn't want anybody a lot of people to know that she can talk finally. You know, she keeps it to herself and her assistant Ricky, played by Ricky Martin, who was so dear. He is such a lovely person and I had a lot of scenes with him, mostly with him and with Kristen Wiig. And I'm looking forward to the second season because now we know that um and I'm I'm not saying a spoiler, because it was at the end of Palm Royale, we know that Norma, my character really isn't Norma. She's not who she pretends to be. She's really a character named Agnes and so I'm hoping that you know we'll find out why Agnes takes on Norma's persona and what happened to Norma. I know Norma and I love the script because everybody in it, every character in it has a secret, you know, or they have so the last um episode of the first season was really everybody had something that they were keeping the secret from.

[21:04] Bruce Gotlieb: There's a lot a lot to answer in the second season.

[21:07] Carol Burnett: And I love how it ends where it's just you, sort of the last one standing there.

[21:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, you know, 'cause she was the matriarch of all of the you know the Palm Beach Society and it all blew up in her face. And I was so surprised to see Paul Sand. That was a nice surprise.

[21:27] Carol Burnett: Yeah. Yeah. You know, he was on my show as a guest three times. Wow. So Paul and I go way back. And I hope he's gonna be in the second season. I I don't know who else is coming back.

[21:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Bruce and I were especially excited to see Mindy Cohn in there too. We love her.

[21:46] Carol Burnett: Yeah, oh I do too. Yeah. Well, Mindy is a friend of my daughter's, Jodie. You know, so they know each other very well. And she was fun to work with. They all were I mean, everybody was so nice and easygoing. We just had a good time, you know.

[22:04] Carol Burnett: It would have a tinge of All My Children, which you know I love All My Children.

[22:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh yeah, well me too.

[22:13] Carol Burnett: You know I do. Can you tell the story about when you were away, I think it was in Paris and you had to get updates?

[22:20] Carol Burnett: Oh well, my husband and I and my three girls were going to be out of the country, we're going to Europe and we'd be gone for four weeks. We were going to London and Paris and Rome and Lake Como. And now this was before you could tape anything or anything. So I asked a friend of mine, I said, Would you send me a telegram to each hotel every Friday to the concierge and tell me what was going on in Pine Valley, which was where All My Children, the fictional town of All My Children. So every Friday I would go to the concierge at the hotel and there would be a telegram telling me what had gone on the past week in All My Children. So then we got to Paris, same thing, Rome same thing. Now we arrived in Lake Como and I had some friends who were already there.

We got there late, we had dinner and then we went to the hotel room and we were asleep. It was like two o'clock in the morning or whatever. And there was a knock at the hot our door. I said, what in the world and we got up and we opened the door and it was the manager of the hotel was standing there and our friends were there too in their robes and house slippers and they handed me this telegram and they were shaking. They were nervous and I read the telegram and it said something like Erica is still in a coma. Mona has to have exploratory surgery. Tad is missing, he ran away from home on and on. And I started to laugh so hard. People thought I was crying and my friends said, Oh give her a valley and kick and my husband said, Oh for crying out loud that's her soap opera.

[24:18] Bruce Gotlieb: I love it. I love it.

[24:19] Carol Burnett: I know it was so funny. Oh, but I loved it. Erica is still in a coma everything happened to Erica. She is so great, Susan Lucci, bless her heart.

[24:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[24:31] Carol Burnett: She's just wonderful. And then you got to be on All My Children. Was that a huge Oh I loved it, yeah. I they gave me a character to play. Verla Grubbs was her name's you can imagine, you know, with a name like that, she was kind of like, oh trash in a way, but a nice person. Right kind of tacky and dressed, you know, tack in a tacky way. And I had fun playing her. So I was on for about ten shows, and boy, they really have a lot to learn. You know, dialogue you'd get dialogue.

[25:13] Carol Burnett: Oh yeah, you had to learn it vi you know, like maybe twenty pages and so you'd have to study all that and then go the next day and do it, you know. And it was just amazing, and I really take my hat off to soap opera actors because they really and to be able to make it really happen when there's hardly any time to learn it.

[25:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[25:37] Carol Burnett: You know, it's just amazing. And then they don't really have time for multiple takes. You know, they can't do as many takes as you can in.

[25:42] Bruce Gotlieb: No, they can't.

[25:45] Carol Burnett: No, because they're under the wire there. They have to finish to get ready for the next day. You know, so it's not like they can keep doing it over and over till they get it right.

[25:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, exactly.

[25:56] Carol Burnett: So yeah, I think they work harder than anyone. Even people on Broadway, you know, they do the eight shows a week, but it's the same show. They don't have to keep learning.

[26:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly.

[26:06] Carol Burnett: So they yeah, right. Now that's a whole different problem.

[26:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[26:08] Carol Burnett: Because you have to keep it looking fresh, even though you do it every si you know, eight shows a week. But you have to remember that it's the first time the audience has seen it. And you have to keep that in mind.

[26:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Let's take a minute to hear a word from our sponsors.

[26:28] Carol Burnett: So are you excited that Once Upon a Mattress is coming back to Broadway with Sutton Foster?

[26:33] Carol Burnett: Yes. Oh yes. And I can't think of anybody better than Sutton Foster. She is so good. She's just right for the character. And we're going to be on Sunday morning this coming weekend. Sutton and I were interviewed by CBS Sunday morning. Right. So we're on yeah, August fourth.

[26:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Are you gonna have an opportunity to come out and see the show?

[26:59] Carol Burnett: Not in New York, but it's gonna come out here to California, I think in December at the Amundsen Theater and I'll see it then.

[27:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Wonderful. What a full circle moment for you. I mean, there may be two or three people out there who don't know that that's really that was your first Broadway show.

[27:17] Carol Burnett: That was my yeah. Yeah. And that was my first big break really.

[27:22] Bruce Gotlieb: And what I think is incredible is that you were doing the Gary Moore show at the same time, is that right?

[27:28] Carol Burnett: Right. Well, I started with Mattress in May and then I got Gary's show in September. And then I was doubling from September until the following June, I think it was. And then I left Mattress and then I stayed on with Gary for a couple of seasons.

[27:48] Bruce Gotlieb: So I mean that must have been an insane schedule.

[27:51] Carol Burnett: I can't even imagine. It was, but I was young, I was twenty-five, twenty-six years old. So I was able to do it, you know, and that was all I did. Yeah, there was a time I only had—I didn't have a day off. Because off-Broadway we would do two shows on a Sunday, then I'd go right back to work on Gary's show the following day on Monday. But finally the Broadway people changed the schedule so I could have Sunday off.

[28:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, that's nice.

[28:22] Carol Burnett: Yeah. But then they added the other performances on like a Tuesday or whatever it was. You know, so I still did eight a week, but at least I had a day off.

[28:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, just to recharge. I'm sure you needed that.

[28:35] Carol Burnett: Exactly. So we have to talk about The Carol Burnett Show.

[28:38] Bruce Gotlieb: How can we not?

[28:40] Carol Burnett: Um, so eleven seasons, that's—and it was just like appointment TV, you know. People couldn't record it on DVRs or even VHS back then. So people would stay home on Saturday night to watch your show.

[28:55] Carol Burnett: Well, they also—that Saturday night lineup was one of the most incredible lineups ever in television history. It's re—I mean they talk about it to this day. You know, it was All in the Family, M*A*S*H, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart, and us.

[29:12] Bruce Gotlieb: That is amazing.

[29:13] Carol Burnett: So yeah, people—it was th—you're right. A lot of people just stayed home because there were no tape—no way to tape it, you know, for future viewing. And as a result, too, there were only three networks at the time. We would have as many as thirty million people watching.

[29:32] Bruce Gotlieb: That's crazy. I mean it's just—it's so different now. You can't even imagine 'cause there are just umpteen channels to choose from.

[29:40] Carol Burnett: Right.

[29:41] Bruce Gotlieb: And then not even to mention all the streaming services on top of that.

[29:46] Carol Burnett: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's overload, overkill kinda, you know.

[29:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[29:51] Carol Burnett: And then even with all that, it's hard to find something that you really want to watch.

[29:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it is difficult, yeah.

[29:58] Carol Burnett: So my favorite character was Eunice. Did you have a favorite character to play?

[30:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Uh, she's one of mine too.

[30:04] Carol Burnett: Uh, Eunice was. I—you know what I loved about those sketches? They were really different for a variety show to do because they kinda got dark in a way, you know. And there were no jokes, it was all character-driven. You know, and one time in the rehearsal, and just for the fun of it, I forget who suggested it, whether I did or Harvey. We said, "Let's just do it right now in rehearsal without all the accents." You know, the southern accents that we did and over-the-top interpretation and we played it totally straight. There wasn't one laugh. One laugh. And it was very, very bad in a way. And you—and it was a great acting experience because we didn't change any of the dialogue. We just did it very seriously and it was really heavy. It was quite interesting.

[31:00] Carol Burnett: Wow, and I love doing Mrs. Wiggins and I've of course loved all the movie takeoffs.

[31:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh yeah, Gone with the Wind.

[31:06] Carol Burnett: I mean that's—and all of that. And oh, oh, I'm excited. Do you ever watch TCM, Turner Classic Movies?

[31:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, of course.

[31:15] Carol Burnett: Sure. You know, 'cause they have all those wonderful old movies and stuff. And so my husband and I were at a function recently for Bob Mackie and there was gonna be a panel to discuss Bob and his work and it was going to be hosted by Dave Carger, who is one of the hosts of TCM.

[31:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[31:36] Carol Burnett: And so—and we met him just before when everybody was getting there for the evening. And we were talking and I said, "I watch TCM all the time." And my husband said, "You know, we have a thought that we—what about if Carol comes on with Dave Carger to TCM and I'm being interviewed and talking about how I loved all the old movies, then we would show, for instance, the real movie Mildred Pierce with Joan Crawford."

[32:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[32:09] Carol Burnett: "Then we'd come back and show my takeoff on Mildred Pierce that we did on my show." I love that. And so they jumped at the idea. So we're gonna do like I think seven of 'em. We're doing Double Indemnity, which we call Double Calamity, Gone with the Wind, Mildred Fierce, we called it, Torch Song, which was Joan Crawford, A Stolen Life, which we called A Swipe Life, that Betty Davis did where she played twins, a good twin and an evil twin. The Heiress, which we call Lady Air. That's like six or seven of 'em, and another one that Joan Fontaine did called Born to Be Bad. And we call it Raised to Be Rotten. So they're gonna show the real movies first. And then come back and then we'll show our takeoff, you know, our satire.

[33:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my gosh.

[33:11] Carol Burnett: Yeah. So I think that's gonna be—they're gonna do it in December.

[33:16] Bruce Gotlieb: And that was Brian's idea?

[33:18] Carol Burnett: Yeah, yeah, Brian, my husband. He said, "You know that they don't want to do that." I said, "That's a great idea." And we never even pursued it until we met Dave at that function, you know, and then we thought, "Well, let's just talk to him about it. All he can do is say that's a nice idea, but no." But they—boy, they jumped at the chance. So I'm really excited about that.

[33:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, that's—oh well we will definitely be posting about that.

[33:43] Carol Burnett: Yes. So I mean you talk about Bob Mackie, right? How big a part was he of The Carol Burnett Show?

[33:51] Carol Burnett: Major. Major. You know, there were times when a sketch wasn't that good, but what he put me in or dressed us in, it would make it funnier.

[34:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[34:05] Carol Burnett: You know, and if it was funny, many times I didn't know how I was going to do a character until I knew how he was going to dress me.

[34:11] Bruce Gotlieb: And would you and he have conversations about how you saw the character or he just came up with stuff on his own?

[34:17] Carol Burnett: For the most part, I just trusted him. And a couple of times early on when I—you know, I did a lot of physical stuff. You know, like fall down and jump out of windows and walk into walls and you know, all kinds of crazy stuff. And I would say at one point I was going to be—I forget, crawling out of something or other and I said, "Bob, I think I should wear slacks. You know, pants here." He said, "No, funnier if you're in a tight skirt. Then they'll see your legs, you know, crossing it and trying to get it." He said, "It's much funnier without wearing slacks." And he was so right.

[34:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Did you get a lot of time between getting the costume and figuring all of that out? What was that space like when he would design it?

[35:06] Carol Burnett: He would get to the next week's script on a Friday, which was a tape day for us. So he would—and over the weekend he would be designing and then he would put it into effect on Monday, because he had this place where he had all the seamstresses and so forth. And I would have a costume fitting on Wednesdays, sometimes as many as nine different changes. He designed and executed an average of sixty-five to seventy costumes a week.

[35:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my God.

[35:42] Carol Burnett: A week because of the guest stars, the dancers, and we were all in different sketches, different characters. As I said, sometimes I'd do as many as nine different characters in one week in one show. And yeah, so do the math in say average of seventy semi costumes a week, eleven years. He designed over seventeen thousand costumes.

[36:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my gosh, wow.

[36:09] Carol Burnett: He definitely was unreal, expected. And just wonderful.

[36:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[36:37] Carol Burnett: Mm-hmm.

[36:38] Bruce Gotlieb: And he thought that that's not that funny.

[36:40] Carol Burnett: And I went into costume fitting and he said, "I have an idea," and I went into the room and there he had the curtain rod on a dummy. I said, "This is so funny." I said, "It's gonna go down in history as one of the funniest sight gags in the history of television." And that's true.

[36:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely, a hundred percent.

[37:00] Carol Burnett: Everyone still is.

[37:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. And didn't you and Cher sometimes switch clothes or share clothes?

[37:08] Carol Burnett: No, but there were times when I love to say we had the same figure. But there were times when just when she was starting out, Bob would put her in a costume maybe that I had worn that he would redo, you know.

[37:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[37:24] Carol Burnett: But once she started doing Sonny and Cher and everything, no, no, that he designed everything for her originally, you know, and wonderful stuff, wonderful.

[37:35] Bruce Gotlieb: I love that when you would do—I think it was the Suntime show you did on Broadway that you brought him on to do your costume.

[37:42] Carol Burnett: Right. And also he did the costumes when I did Moon Over Buffalo. He did the costumes for everybody.

[37:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, yeah.

[37:51] Carol Burnett: That's fantastic. I mean just having that—of course every special I've done he did, you know, he did the costumes for.

[37:58] Bruce Gotlieb: That's incredible.

[37:59] Carol Burnett: I love that you have such a long relationship with him.

[38:02] Carol Burnett: Oh, I—yeah. He was on, you know, the full eleven years.

[38:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[38:06] Carol Burnett: And yeah, and again, everything that I've done outside of, you know, I've had Bob design. But I mean not—not the movies that I've done because that was, yeah, but television, yes, pretty much.

[38:22] Bruce Gotlieb: We'll be right back. We have to listen to some commercials.

[38:29] Carol Burnett: So the movies, I mean, let's talk about some of the movies. Annie, of course, is such a classic. I'm sure little girls everywhere know you.

[38:39] Carol Burnett: They do. It's so sweet. You know, if I'm in a restaurant and a little girl starts to stare at me, I know that's why.

[38:47] Carol Burnett: You know. And some of 'em, they might be a little scared. If they're younger, they're a little scared. If they're older, they're just interested and want to say hello. And so if they're a little scared and the mother comes up, I'll just look at them, I'll say, "You know, I'm really not that lady. I was just pretending." And then they're—and then they're fine.

[39:12] Bruce Gotlieb: I will say, Annie being great—being—I grew up with it and it was one of my favorites. I would watch it almost every day. But recently on Facebook, within I want to say the past week or so, they came out with this still of yourself, Tim Curry, and Bernadette Peters on the set of New York City Street and went into the production value that was Annie and that the original concept for Easy Street was this grand production, which then they wound up reshooting to what we all know it to be taking place in the orphanage.

[39:52] Carol Burnett: Right. When we opened it up with, uh, you're like, I don't know, a hundred dancers and people were dancing all around and Bernadette and Tim and I, we said, "This is overkill. It's not—it's taking it away from the three villains and making it this big production number that doesn't mean anything." And but no, they did. And at that time, it took a week to shoot, and I think it was over at that time a million dollars. But then later, like two months later, I get a call and it's from Ray Stark, who's a producer. He said, "We're gonna reshoot it with just the three of you in the orphanage." And I said, "Great." You know, and so they looked at it and somebody realized that it didn't make sense.

[40:42] Bruce Gotlieb: So we were the three of us were very happy that they reshot it.

[40:46] Carol Burnett: And it to be like it was in the play.

[40:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Exactly.

[40:49] Carol Burnett: Exactly. And there was another thing that happened in the movie which I was always surprised at in the play. They never had a scene between Hannigan and Daddy Warbucks.

[41:01] Carol Burnett: And you would think that was like a slam dunk. You know, they should have that with those two. So I went to John Houston, the director, and I said, couldn't Albert and I have a scene together and maybe a song? And he said, that's a very good idea. So they called the writers, the composer, and they were busy and they said, well, have somebody else write the song. I forget who wrote the scene. And so I went to Artie Malvin, who was one of my special material writers, and the scene was where Warbucks comes and wants to get Hannigan's signature to let him take Annie to his house for a week or whatever it was. So Artie wrote a song called "Sign," S-I-G-N. We shot it, and it's a really good scene, and it's a wonderful song.

And that's in the movie, and it was never in the original. The song itself is amazing, and I mean just your comedic timing and your physicality, the scene itself, it's just brilliant. Right. And we had such fun doing it, and Albert loved it, of course, and I think it's a really good scene. And again, I'm just surprised they never had a scene between the two of them in the original.

[42:30] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I wonder, you know, stuff gets cut all the time, so who knows? Who knows if it ever existed, but it definitely added a lot to the movie.

[42:38] Carol Burnett: Of course, yeah, it did. That movie's also one of those things where everybody's like the chemistry in that, you and Tim and you and Albert, like everybody's chemistry was just spot on.

[42:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[42:53] Carol Burnett: Well, again, we had a good time. We had a good time. Was it a coincidence that you and your good friend Bernadette Peters were in that together?

[43:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Or did you have any?

[43:02] Carol Burnett: Total coincidence. Oh, I was so happy when Ray Stark said, Oh, we're gonna cast Bernadette. I said, she's one of my best friends and oldest friends. In fact, Bernadette was the first person we signed to do my variety show. I mean, she's so talented, she could do anything. She's adorable, and we're still in touch.

[43:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[43:23] Carol Burnett: And oh, she recently remarried, she got married.

[43:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, how nice.

[43:28] Carol Burnett: Oh wow, congratulations. Yep, yep, yep. You know, another favorite movie of mine is The Four Seasons. I love that so much.

[43:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, Alan was great. You know, he wrote it, he directed it, he produced it, and he was in it. Alan Omaha, just in case people...

[43:43] Carol Burnett: And also, one of my favorite actors, Len Cariou, who was in that.

[43:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh yeah, yeah.

[43:52] Carol Burnett: And that was another great cast too, you know, and I made very good friends with Rita Moreno and Jack Weston. We kinda hung out together, a lot of us, you know, and yeah, it was, it was, and people didn't think it would be a big hit 'cause it's about all these middle-aged couples, you know.

[44:14] Bruce Gotlieb: And it was quite a hit. In fact, they're going to do it now as a series.

[44:19] Carol Burnett: Really?

[44:19] Bruce Gotlieb: With Tina Fey working on it, and she would play Kate, my character, and Steve Carell.

[44:28] Carol Burnett: Oh wow, that's, it so deserves, that's great.

[44:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and Tina's writing it, I think.

[44:35] Carol Burnett: She's one of the writers. Well, it's in good hands. You know, they're, of course, they're in touch. I think Alan has a lot to do with it, of course.

[44:45] Bruce Gotlieb: That's great.

[44:46] Carol Burnett: Yeah. Wow. Maybe you can hop over and do a guest star or something.

[44:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Who knows?

[44:55] Carol Burnett: It would never be a bad idea to have you on something.

[44:58] Bruce Gotlieb: Thank you. So how did you come to be on Better Call Saul?

[45:05] Carol Burnett: I'm friends with Vince Gilligan, and I was such a fan of Breaking Bad. So he came to my fiftieth anniversary show. We then we met. Actually, we both had the same, when I go to functions or something, I have a limo driver that I always used out here, Jason, and he was always driving Vince Gilligan around. I said, Oh my god, please tell Vince that I'm such a big fan, and he did. And then Vince said, I'm a fan of Carol. So it was Jason, our limo driver, who introduced us.

[45:45] Carol Burnett: Oh, so then, yeah, and then we went out to dinner with him and his wife, Holly, and we had such a good time, and so we just became friends. And then I got hooked on Saul, and I said, this is just so good. And he said, would you ever be a gu, you don't want to do? I said, I don't care what you want me to do, of course I would. You know, a few months later, they said we have an idea for you to come and be this woman who finally is the reason Saul is brought down.

[46:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Amazing.

[46:19] Carol Burnett: Yeah, and so I went, I had the best time, a wonderful time working, and I just fell in love with everybody. And of course, Bob Odenkirk, and we hit it off immediately. You know, and it was a heavy role. There was no comedy in it.

[46:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[46:36] Carol Burnett: And yeah, and I had a great time, and I was able to meet, although I didn't do any scenes with Rhea Seehorn because she is so great. She's great, and Jonathan Banks, I got to meet him. You know, and so I made a whole bunch of new friends and got a lot of feedback. And there are a lot of people who didn't know me, you know, well younger people, they didn't know me from The Burnett Show or anything. But my husband and I, after it aired, Saul aired, we'd be out to dinner, and somebody would come up and say, Oh, aren't you that lady who was on Better Call Saul? That's a new one.

[47:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I said yes, and they all, I got more response from that, you know, and now of course Palm Royale.

[47:28] Carol Burnett: Right. Which you're nominated for an Emmy for. Congratulations.

[47:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Thank you.

[47:34] Carol Burnett: That was a surprise. I have to, well, that's nice. Are you gonna go to the ceremony?

[47:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh yeah. And I think they might, I'm not sure, they might ask me to present, you know.

[47:45] Carol Burnett: Oh wonderful.

[47:46] Bruce Gotlieb: And of course, I would go like also to support Kristen, who was nominated.

[47:51] Carol Burnett: Yeah. And it seems like you two have really hit it off.

[47:55] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's one we...

[47:57] Carol Burnett: We have. Again, I've made so many new younger friends, you know. Alison Janney and I, do you know what Wordle is?

[48:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[48:06] Carol Burnett: Of course. Play it every day. Now you can play the archive.

[48:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Yep.

[48:10] Carol Burnett: Well, Alison and I Wordle every morning.

[48:13] Bruce Gotlieb: I love that.

[48:15] Carol Burnett: Yeah. Do you find that with some of these now women that you're kind of surrounded by, the newer comedians, is it like kind of an unspoken language and easier because you guys do speak the same language, physical comedians?

[48:31] Bruce Gotlieb: I guess you're brought up in that same, you have that same headspace.

[48:34] Carol Burnett: Well, I don't know. I think, you know, everybody has their own style or whatever, but what you need to do in order to, I guess, to be funny is to have timing. That's the big deal, you know. And all of these ladies do. I think I do too, you know.

[48:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[48:52] Carol Burnett: And you definitely do. You were telling me something where you made a decision. Do you remember this? You said you could say funny things or say things funny in a funny way.

[49:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, that would, that came from when I was doing The Gary Moore Show. And one of the guests just one week was this old vaudevillian who'd been in the Ziegfeld Follies named Ed Wynn. And at the time, when he was a guest on Gary, I think he was in his late seventies. We were sitting around reading the script for that week, and the subject came up, what's the difference? I don't know, I hope I'm not sure I get this right, but it's something like what's the difference between a comedic actor and a comedian? And Ed said, well, a comedian says funny things like Bob Hope, and a comedic actor says things funny like Jack Benny. And I thought, well, that's what I want to do. I wanna be able to say things funny.

[49:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[49:52] Carol Burnett: As opposed to telling jokes. And that stuck with me, and there's just a way of saying things funny, you know. But it's not like I set out to do that. Otherwise, you fall into a trap of not really being truthful.

[50:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Mm-hmm.

[50:11] Carol Burnett: You still have to be truthful when you say your lines, you know, you can't just say, oh, I wanna say this funny, you know.

[50:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, yes.

[50:19] Carol Burnett: So I think that we should talk about Hal Prince and our project.

[50:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[50:26] Carol Burnett: So you and I are trying very hard to get a theater renamed for Hal Prince. Can you tell me why we think this is so important?

[50:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, it's important because for one thing, he deserves it. He’s a winner of twenty-one Tony Awards. That will never be duplicated ever. It's so, and he's, you know, all the wonderful musicals and things that he either produced and directed or directed or produced only. Also, which I didn't know until we got into this, was that there are no theaters named after a director. Never. No. So it only stands to reason that he should be the first.

[51:10] Carol Burnett: You know, and then I mean like Mike Nichols, he's, you know, a wonderful director. But so they have composers, they have playwrights, you know, Simon, Stephen Sondheim.

[51:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[51:23] Carol Burnett: You know, on and on. And it just makes sense. So what we would love to do, hopefully, if we could get, which would be wonderful to get the St. James Theater because that was where he made his debut with Pajama Game. It all began there.

[51:42] Bruce Gotlieb: It began at the St. James.

[51:44] Carol Burnett: And what a tribute that would be, and it would also make the St. James people heroes because they stepped up to the plate. The Majestic, we tried the Majestic because of Phantom of the Opera having been there for thirty-five hundred years, whatever. But they wouldn't give us the time of day. We, you know, remember we had this whole thing, the Majestic is fit for a prince, and so they didn't, as I say, give us the time of day. But I'm hoping that the people that, you know, who run the St. James will step up to the plate, and they'll be heroes, you know.

[52:25] Bruce Gotlieb: And that is one I would fly back in a minute to be there to celebrate.

[52:31] Carol Burnett: I mean, that's reason enough to get them to rename the theater, just to have you come.

[52:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, I don't know about that, but I think we could get, you know, there would be Broadway would turn out, you know, so many performers and writers and people, you know, who admire and either worked with Hal or admire his work or both. We know they would say so many people have publicly supported us, like I know Joel Grey, Julie Andrews, so many people are doing this.

[53:07] Carol Burnett: So yeah, and I think they would have quite a few people there at the naming ceremony. It would be a major, major publicity.

[53:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, you know, it would just be wonderful, so we're hoping, you know, that maybe, as I say, the folks at the St. James will be open to this idea.

[53:29] Carol Burnett: Yes, and imagine what it would mean for the Prince family too.

[53:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, I know Daisy and, oh yeah, definitely. So, you know, and we'll make sure to, you know, keep the word out on the streets for whatever campaign you're doing to make sure, right, you know, the theatergoers also can help and, you know, either write in or whatever you need them to do, they'll be there.

[53:52] Carol Burnett: Thank you, Bruce. Yes, Bruce made a video for us when we did our first round. So, well, Carol, I mean, this was incredible. Thank you so much for joining.

[53:52] Carol Burnett: Thank you, and I send you both my love.

[53:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, well, you know how much I love you.

[53:52] Carol Burnett: Yes, we do. And we could sit here and talk to you for hours, but thank you. Thank you so much.

[54:23] Carol Burnett: Definitely. Keep your fingers crossed.

[54:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. Well, thank you everyone for joining us, and we will see you next time on Behind the Awards.

[54:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, we will be in touch very soon. Hopefully, you'll be able to come back on the show to announce the renaming of the theater.