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[0:00] Tommy Dorfman: This is Tommy Dorfman, and you're listening to Behind the Awards.

[0:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Lovely.

[0:04] Eila Mell: Uh, I know you Americans are famous for your hospitality, but this is really ridiculous.

[0:19] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila, and I'm here with Bruce.

[0:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Good morning, Eila.

[0:26] Eila Mell: How are you today, Bruce?

[0:28] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm doing well. How about yourself?

[0:30] Eila Mell: I'm good. Just listening to Julie Andrews there.

[0:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, her Mary Poppins Oscar.

[0:35] Eila Mell: I mean, that's pretty iconic, huh?

[0:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, yes. She's had quite the career.

[0:41] Eila Mell: Oh, yeah. Did you see Mary Poppins as a kid?

[0:45] Bruce Gotlieb: I don't remember. I think I probably saw it, but it's very hard to remember.

[0:49] Eila Mell: Oh, yeah, for sure. I watched it all the time.

[0:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Was one of those. Maybe I didn't watch it as often as I watched Annie, but I definitely did watch it multiple times.

[0:58] Eila Mell: Was Annie your go-to?

[0:59] Bruce Gotlieb: Annie was my go-to every day.

[1:01] Eila Mell: Yeah, that's literally every day.

[1:04] Bruce Gotlieb: I was a weird kid because my go-to every day was the tour of Sweeney Todd with George Hearn and Angela Lansbury.

[1:12] Eila Mell: Okay.

[1:12] Bruce Gotlieb: I, of course, you know, when the movie came out, I had a friend that we would get together every day after school. Our parents would be there, we would go, and that was our after-school activity. We sat down, we watched Annie. We knew every line, every word, every song.

[1:29] Eila Mell: Amazing. Who was your favorite in Annie?

[1:32] Bruce Gotlieb: As if I had to ask. I feel like I know.

[1:35] Eila Mell: As a child, it was Annie.

[1:37] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[1:38] Eila Mell: But then as I got older, of course, it was Miss Hannigan.

[1:42] Bruce Gotlieb: That's what I thought. But you do love Anne Reinking also.

[1:45] Eila Mell: Well, I was gonna say, Grace is a close second.

[1:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Of course. I mean, it's Anne Reinking.

[1:50] Eila Mell: I know.

[1:50] Bruce Gotlieb: So we're getting some exciting news for what's that? As the holiday season starts approaching, they've announced shows that are going to be performing in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade this year.

[2:03] Eila Mell: For me, that's the only reason to watch the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, the Broadway shows.

[2:09] Bruce Gotlieb: It's funny though, depending on what channel you watch, because it obviously airs on every channel.

[2:15] Eila Mell: Some of the performances are on, like if you're watching NBC, some of them are on there. But if you're watching CBS, some of them are on there. They're not always the same performances.

[2:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Really?

[2:26] Eila Mell: Yeah, because I was looking for a specific performance one year, and I was watching it and I'm like, how we're getting close to, you know, Santa coming out. It's almost over. And when I found it later on on YouTube, it was on the opposite channel that had broadcast it.

[2:43] Bruce Gotlieb: That's crazy.

[2:44] Eila Mell: But wait, I thought NBC does the, like it's their people that are on the parade, they produce it. So wouldn't they have all the performances?

[2:53] Bruce Gotlieb: You would think. This again, this is going back a few years, so it could have changed.

[2:57] Eila Mell: Maybe.

[2:58] Bruce Gotlieb: Huh. Well, that's weird.

[3:00] Eila Mell: So as you know, I went to the parade for the first time last year.

[3:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[3:05] Eila Mell: But unfortunately, I wasn't in the section where they do the Broadway shows. Like it didn't even occur to me that you had to be in a certain section.

[3:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, because that's right in front of Macy's.

[3:15] Eila Mell: Right. So I wasn't there. I was uptown. So I just saw the floats. And it's a very different experience being there because it's super fast.

[3:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[3:26] Eila Mell: You're done in like an hour and a half. You're home by the time Santa comes. I mean, you've seen him in person, but by the time he's on TV, you're home.

[3:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, but it was great. It was so much fun. I was right up front, which was really nice.

[3:39] Eila Mell: That's amazing.

[3:40] Bruce Gotlieb: So yeah, I don't know if I'm going again this year, but we'll see.

[3:44] Eila Mell: Okay. We'll see if my connection comes through.

[3:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, hopefully. And if you do get to go, you might have to try to work your way down to Macy's a little bit.

[3:52] Eila Mell: I don't know if I can because the person who I get those tickets from, I think is only at a certain section. So I don't know.

[4:00] Bruce Gotlieb: But it was fun. The person I went with had the time of their lives. We actually got to march in it for a few minutes, which was really cool.

[4:09] Eila Mell: So we'll see.

[4:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, this year, Hell's Kitchen, Death Becomes Her, and The Outsiders are all listed to perform at the parade.

[4:18] Eila Mell: Okay.

[4:19] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's exciting.

[4:20] Eila Mell: Yes. And they've also announced that other Broadway folks will be appearing on the parade and not sure their capacity, but Idina Menzel, Lea Salonga.

[4:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, these sound like float people.

[4:34] Eila Mell: They might be float people. I know like Joey McIntyre's on there, Ariana Maddox, who's had a couple of runs in Chicago. So you know, Broadway will be well represented as they always are.

[4:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, so for me last year, the most exciting part besides Kenan and Kel coming out, I got so excited when they came out in their Good Burger car.

[4:56] Eila Mell: Um, was there was a Shrek float. So I got to see that. I had no idea that was gonna happen. So that was fun.

[5:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see who performs, you know, in front of Macy's, you know, like the traditional setup and if they'll have, you know, they sometimes do have the floats where you know you just have a song.

[5:13] Eila Mell: I feel like Macy's is relegated for like the big numbers, you know.

[5:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, exactly.

[5:18] Eila Mell: Right. So growing up, it never even occurred to me that people lip-synced during the parade.

[5:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my god, it drives me crazy.

[5:25] Eila Mell: I just never thought about it.

[5:28] Bruce Gotlieb: But yeah. Um, it's so funny, but obviously, like how else are they gonna get like a full orchestra to come?

[5:38] Eila Mell: I guess I wouldn't mind the track if they had to sing to the track.

[5:44] Bruce Gotlieb: But the lip-syncing is pretty bad.

[5:46] Eila Mell: I know. It really's not even like their lip-syncing, like if you're watching RuPaul's Drag Race and they lip-sync there, right?

[5:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[5:53] Eila Mell: They're lip-syncing. You expect, right? But there, and actually some of them are doing it really well. Like these people, it's like watching a dubbed movie almost sometimes.

[6:01] Bruce Gotlieb: That's hilarious.

[6:03] Eila Mell: So um, I'm gonna try to see Death Becomes Her before then.

[6:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[6:07] Eila Mell: I'm excited about that show. How about you?

[6:10] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm excited about it as well.

[6:11] Eila Mell: Oh, well, you have tickets already, right?

[6:13] Bruce Gotlieb: November 23rd.

[6:14] Eila Mell: So it'll be, I guess, the week before.

[6:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, that's cool.

[6:17] Eila Mell: Yeah, I'm excited.

[6:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it's a good season already, and it's only a couple of months in.

[6:23] Eila Mell: It's only just begun. I mean, can you believe how many shows are already opening?

[6:29] Bruce Gotlieb: Almost anxiety producing, because how do you get, you know, find the time to see everything?

[6:34] Eila Mell: I know. I'm very stressed just trying to get tickets to Sunset Boulevard at this point is not easy.

[6:41] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I mean, a lot of these shows are just you gotta be jumping on it, or you know, playing the lotto every day or rush tickets or you know, one of those type of things.

[6:51] Eila Mell: Right.

[6:51] Bruce Gotlieb: So you have to make it a full-time job.

[6:54] Eila Mell: Yes, I know. But speaking of hot tickets, our guest today is in one of the hottest shows running right now.

[7:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about our guest today, Bruce.

[7:07] Bruce Gotlieb: So we have Tommy Dorfman on, and she is playing Tybalt and the Nurse in the Romeo and Juliet revival at Circle in the Square.

[7:18] Eila Mell: Sure, it's definitely a revival. I mean, the original, I know for a show that's been around for centuries.

[7:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, it's funny, I think their merchandise, a lot of their merchandise has the date on it of...

[7:27] Eila Mell: Oh, that's funny.

[7:34] Bruce Gotlieb: When like, you know, it'll have like a line but it'll have like copyright with a date and it's when Shakespeare wrote it.

[7:40] Eila Mell: Right.

[7:41] Bruce Gotlieb: 1635 or whatever the right, yeah, and a lot of it has that on it.

[7:46] Eila Mell: That's like a big, obviously that word never appears in the script, but a lot of the merchandise has that word on it.

[7:53] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's kind of, you know, how the characters are...

[7:57] Eila Mell: It's interesting that um, that that's the, I guess the slogan or the merchandising line because it never comes up, you know, the text is a text and it never really comes up in the show.

[8:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[8:11] Eila Mell: So I guess it's just, I guess that's a feeling that is imparted on the people coming to see it.

[8:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[8:18] Eila Mell: Well, it c, it's for a new audience I think they make that very clear and that's great.

[8:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I think once you, you know, once you go in and you're, you're, you know, immersed I guess is the right word, yeah, in their production you see it's not the Romeo and Juliet you might have read in high school.

[8:35] Eila Mell: No, and it's not even the Baz Luhrmann Romeo and Juliet that people like.

[8:38] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[8:39] Eila Mell: Yeah. It's a very fresh new take. But also once you're in the lobby just, you know, even if you're at the bar or uh the line for merch, you're in it.

[8:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, once you take the, once you walk into the theater and you take those escalators down.

[8:55] Eila Mell: Yeah. Once you're down, you're in their world.

[9:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[9:00] Eila Mell: The atmosphere is created.

[9:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. And Tommy does a great job of sharing with us when you go to the show, there's a little like pre-show stuff going on, some business that's happening.

[9:12] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[9:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, and Tommy goes into is it their characters, is it them? Is it, you know, what kind of went into that little bit, as well as the show itself, how it kind of developed and came to be what everyone is seeing now.

[9:25] Eila Mell: Yeah, she gave us a really deep dive into this.

[9:28] Bruce Gotlieb: So let's, let's get to it. What are we waiting for, Bruce?

[9:33] Eila Mell: So Bruce, we are so excited to welcome Tommy Dorfman to Behind the Awards.

[9:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Hello, Tommy.

[9:40] Tommy Dorfman: Hi. I'm so excited to be here.

[9:42] Eila Mell: Thank you so much for joining us. The hugest of congratulations because what you guys, your company at Romeo and Juliet are doing for Shakespeare and for theater is so exciting.

[9:53] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, you are bringing young people who probably had no interest in Shakespeare or theater to Broadway and they're so excited. When we went to the show it was crazy. It was an atmosphere unlike many shows. What's that been like for you?

[10:10] Tommy Dorfman: It's been really special. It wasn't until college that I really started to enjoy or understand Shakespeare and it was because I was studying it as an actor but prior to that we had I remember in high school reading Shakespeare and being so bored and like not really interested and to see this like young generation of kids like 16, 17 coming to the theater and getting like understanding the text, understanding, you know, the story itself is pretty, you know, it's it is like the definition of canon. So there's a lot of familiarity there. Um for sure, but it's really special. I've never done, you know, the last time I did a play was off Broadway in 2019, and our audience definitely skewed a lot older, a lot more traditional theater off Broadway audience.

Um, and so to see the kind of energy and fandom surrounding this particular show is really exciting. I think it's really special. It does feel unique. It feels like a time in my life I'll always cherish. Um it's the kind of dream scenario for a Broadway debut. And also, I know I'm being spoiled. When you went in for the part, did you have any idea, you know, what it was gonna be that it was going to be a little, you know, non-traditional in terms of the staging and the environment that they were going to create?

[11:37] Tommy Dorfman: No, I had no idea. I really didn't. I think it was like they kept a lot of it under wraps. Even in the room with Sam, very little was disclosed as far as what our given circumstances were gonna be, what our place in the world was gonna be. Initially, I wasn't gonna be doubling anything when I first started coming in.

[12:01] Tommy Dorfman: So did you come in for the nurse then initially?

[12:04] Tommy Dorfman: No, I came in for Benvolio.

[12:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, wow.

[12:06] Tommy Dorfman: Wow.

[12:07] Tommy Dorfman: Completely different. And then I did Tybalt and Benvolio, which would never have worked together, but I think they were just like, and then after that audition, I remember Taylor Williams, who casts the show, called me and asked me if I would consider they were doing callbacks for the nurse, and I never auditioned. I never even thought that I would play the nurse.

[12:28] Tommy Dorfman: It could just be that it didn't cross my mind. Um, not for lack of ability, I think more like a self-limiting thing, less of like a I couldn't do it thing, but or that someone I just it just never felt like something that somebody would give me permission to do or support redoing.

[12:43] Tommy Dorfman: So it was never it just it just didn't it really didn't even cross my mind audition book. There's no reason why it would, because the nurse is traditionally so much older.

[12:52] Tommy Dorfman: Well, that, but I also knew that it was a much younger, I did know that it was gonna be a younger ensemble playing these roles. Um, and I remember just Taylor calling me and saying, you know, Sam really enjoyed meeting you and wondered if you would consider doing this track that doesn't totally exist yet, but could exist. Maybe we don't know. It was very like, we don't know if it'll actually work, but are you willing to come in and like read for the nurse and talk about this could work or not?

[13:22] Tommy Dorfman: And I was like, well, yeah, of course. Um, and so a few days later I came in and read for the nurse, and Sam and I talked about sort of a logistics and emotional journey of doing of potentially doubling Tybalt and Nurse. And then a few days later, I got offered the role.

[13:37] Tommy Dorfman: Amazing. It wasn't the nurse was never supposed to double.

[13:46] Bruce Gotlieb: So why did it? Do you know?

[13:49] Tommy Dorfman: I think because of me. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I think because Sam really wanted to double as many roles as possible, but he hadn't figured out a way for the nurse to double in the same way that like Benvolio doubles with the apothecary at the very end. Um, but it's a quick doubling of sorts. Um, and I think Sam always knew Capulets were gonna double and always had this plan for Friar Lawrence and Paris, but didn't have I think initially Tybalt was gonna maybe double the other Friar at the end, like Friar John would be a smaller sort of friar role, but the nurse was never supposed to double.

[14:26] Tommy Dorfman: The nurse is such a rich part too. It's the comic relief in the play. It must be so much fun to dig into the color.

[14:32] Tommy Dorfman: It's really fun. I love her. I love what it brings out in me. It's so different than who I am, I think, in my normal life. Most characters, I mean, Tybalt's incredibly combative and protective in a way that is very different than how I would operate in the world.

[14:52] Tommy Dorfman: So that's also really fun to play with. It's fun to play with the dichotomy of like being the most violent person and the most maternal person in the play.

[14:59] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure.

[15:00] Bruce Gotlieb: We'll be right back. We have to listen to some commercials.

[15:06] Bruce Gotlieb: When the show starts, or I should say not really the show, because you guys do so much on stage pre-show. Are you guys doing it as yourselves, or are you doing it in character, or maybe some type of variation in between?

[15:20] Tommy Dorfman: I think we've all created these characters for ourselves.

[15:28] Tommy Dorfman: So that come in and out sort of like as the ensemble of the play, sort of like kids break into circle in the square and put on Romeo and Juliet.

[15:36] Tommy Dorfman: Sure. And so I would say during pre-show, I'm neither the nurse nor Tybalt nor Tommy. I'm sort of I'm a version of Tommy, but it's not. I talk about it sort of in third person because it is sort of this like Uber character of myself that just um changes a little bit night to night.

[15:59] Tommy Dorfman: I think Sam really planted this question of like why do you want to do Romeo and Juliet in our heads? Like what is the why go through all this trauma and all this pain and do this really fucking crazy play, this really fucked up play, this really tragic and funny play. Um, you know, what is the end game? What are you excavating? What are you releasing? How do you end in a place that's peaceful, that feels like a true release?

[16:29] Tommy Dorfman: So yeah, I think it in pre-show and in the moments when I'm on stage but I'm not in character. I'm just kind of treating it like an opportunity to connect with my ensemble with the audience, with like how I'm feeling day to day, which changes what's going on in the world, what I want to work on in the play, what I want to explore is different every show.

[16:54] Bruce Gotlieb: So is the pre-show different every show, or is that choreographed?

[16:58] Tommy Dorfman: Kind of. It's there's there's a there are a few moments that help us sort of get through. Yeah, really just at the end.

[17:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[17:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Like maybe the last minute and a half is planned.

[17:09] Tommy Dorfman: And everything ahead of that kind of changes night to night.

[17:14] Bruce Gotlieb: When you came out, all I thought was she looks like Nancy Spungen. Was that oh my god. Is that ever conscious, or is that just a coincidence?

[17:24] Tommy Dorfman: That was never conscious at all. I mean, not for me. Like, I'm obsessed with that.

[17:29] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. Um, wow. I'm a big I love that. I have like a Pinterest board that I was building.

[17:40] Tommy Dorfman: And when we were in Denver and I were talking, our costume designer were talking about styling for Nurse Tybalt, hair makeup, all the stuff. We sort of landed on this like kind of rock punk rock mullet vibe.

[17:57] Tommy Dorfman: I was like pulling up all these images of Emma Cline from years ago who had this just like this really like really cool, sort of like bleached out mullet.

[18:09] Tommy Dorfman: Um I was like, oh, I feel like it's a mix of this, and there's also this like kind of like bro, yeah, there is like a broken bird quality to both characters that I'm interested in.

[18:20] Tommy Dorfman: There's this photo of like Emma Cline in this dress made out of cutlery. Their hair is this like bleach blonde mullet.

[18:27] Tommy Dorfman: And I don't know, I just was like, oh, I really I think that I don't want to do that to my real hair, but like let's make a wig that feels aligned with that that felt really like Nurse Tybalt coded to me.

[18:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[18:38] Tommy Dorfman: Um landed on having this like leather jacket with it, which was made for Tybalt.

[18:45] Tommy Dorfman: Um just thinking about things that could kind of drop into character and help the audience understand some of these switches beyond characterization and tempo and other things that maybe I would be doing as an actor. But that's really funny.

[18:57] Tommy Dorfman: I love that you had that.

[19:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Totally. I think that's the thing about doing this in this way and in Sam's version of it. You can kind of paint what you want on all of us because it's so untraditional.

[19:09] Tommy Dorfman: Right. But I absolutely picked up on your punk vibe because you know, it's just a different person, but it's the same inspiration.

[19:16] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, I mean, I was looking at like Joan Jett. I was looking at not necessarily for hair and everything else, but it was a similar kind of exploration for sure.

[19:26] Tommy Dorfman: And I wanted something that felt kind of like a genderless haircut, which I think a mullet is.

[19:33] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. It's also kind of glam rock, which I like.

[19:36] Tommy Dorfman: Super glam rock.

[19:37] Tommy Dorfman: For super glam rock. And I think it's so different than me. So it's nice, like once the wig comes on, it's like showtime. And then once the wig comes off, I go home.

[19:46] Bruce Gotlieb: It's interesting because the nurse is so pious. And like so, we've we talked a lot about spirituality and you know, Mother Mary and sort of like different iconography to pull from and play from.

[19:58] Tommy Dorfman: Um, which I thought a lot about, I think, in the physical exploration of her too in different moments when she's holding Juliet or when she's folding Romeo.

[20:07] Tommy Dorfman: But I think too, like I was pulling a lot from like Sylvia Rivera and like other trans liberation icon pioneers energetically for both characters, but especially Tybalt.

[20:20] Tommy Dorfman: Like, what does it mean to really stand for something? Is your Tybalt a trans character or genderless or it's sort of like I always think of Tybalt as kind of genderless, like sexless, like primary language is violent, like so repressed.

[20:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[20:37] Tommy Dorfman: So we didn't change the pronouns for any of the characters. But I think for me, Tybalt is like sexually repressed, gender repressed, but like, you know, almost asexual in a gender, like doesn't like that's not that's not like Tybalt lives to not to like fall in love and fuck and yeah, do all do any of those normal pleasantries or life things.

[21:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[21:00] Tommy Dorfman: Tybalt's not interested in that. Tybalt's interested in like honor and family and like heritage and like protecting much more noble than the average sports.

[21:11] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, yeah, it's like it's less, it's like gender's irrelevance.

[21:16] Tommy Dorfman: Right. Right. And that, you know, it's like Tybalt feels very sort of like Greek. Like this sort of dislike.

[21:23] Tommy Dorfman: So I think, you know, me being a trans woman. I think there are some people who are gonna see Tybalt as a trans woman. I think there are some people who are gonna see Tybalt as a man. Maybe there are some people that just see Tybalt as a woman.

[21:32] Tommy Dorfman: And then I think there's a good amount of youths who don't think in the same ways that we think.

[21:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[21:36] Tommy Dorfman: So they're not concerned about that or thinking about that. I feel like that's how the production is presented, that it just isn't an issue.

[21:43] Tommy Dorfman: No, it's not because it's not about that. Right. It's just the story.

[21:47] Tommy Dorfman: And yeah, there are these really serious moments in which there's a black woman and a trans woman killing each other.

[21:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Mm-hmm.

[21:52] Tommy Dorfman: Right. You know. And there are moments I know when Romeo kills that can be really challenging for trans and queer people to witness, but also feel really true to the world we live in.

[22:01] Tommy Dorfman: Like the male violence against trans people is very present.

[22:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[22:05] Tommy Dorfman: Right. Um, has this production opened up conversations that you're proud of?

[22:10] Tommy Dorfman: It's so early. I mean, yes. Yeah. I think like within the company for sure.

[22:15] Tommy Dorfman: I think like we've been able to navigate a lot of really interesting, very serious topics within our work together.

[22:21] Tommy Dorfman: But I think, yeah, I mean, there have been a lot of interesting, beautiful moments at stage door, a lot of people feeling seen for the first time, feeling understood, feeling valued, feeling inspired.

[22:35] Tommy Dorfman: There have been people who come up to me and they're like, You opened my heart up in this new way. You know, and it's like that's like beautiful that that theater can do that.

[22:43] Tommy Dorfman: It's what it's what theater did for me, and sort of have the opportunity to pass that on and be of service to an audience and give them a moment to find relief.

[22:52] Tommy Dorfman: So much of the nurse's journey is filled with grief and processing grief, especially in part two for the later acts of the choir.

[22:58] Tommy Dorfman: But even I would say from the very beginning, the nurse is filled with grief.

[23:03] Tommy Dorfman: Which is what fuels so much comedy and so much silliness to me is like I don't want to look at the other stuff. But I think that's natural to people too, right? The defense mechanism of humor is so inbred in people.

[23:14] Tommy Dorfman: So that I think helps people get attached to that. There's like an infantile way that the nurse operates at the beginning of the play that I feel really drawn to.

[23:23] Tommy Dorfman: This like, especially from, you know, I'm playing her as a 32-year-old. I'm 32, and actually feels more true to the text.

[23:31] Tommy Dorfman: There are many dramaturgical references to pull from that say that really the nurse was would have only been in her 30s.

[23:38] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[23:38] Tommy Dorfman: If Romeo and Juliet are young teenagers, 14. Juliet's 13, the nurse is maybe 30.

[23:44] Tommy Dorfman: Right. Because back then the, you know, 30 was like, you know, 80 now.

[23:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[23:50] Tommy Dorfman: Well, I know. And it's like I just saw some of that boulevard and like Norma's 40.

[23:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it's crazy.

[23:54] Tommy Dorfman: But it's interesting. It's like, and I actually, so I think there's something really special about Juliet and the nurse being closer.

[23:59] Tommy Dorfman: I mean, and the nurse living vicariously through her because she was robbed of these experiences.

[24:05] Tommy Dorfman: Sure.

[24:05] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. She had one love. She lost her one luck. She had one kid. She lost her one kid. And so she is, she's like playing 14.

[24:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[24:14] Tommy Dorfman: But it's a sexy nurse, which is different from most any other nurse I've ever seen.

[24:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I guess that's true.

[24:21] Tommy Dorfman: I mean, I think often there's it's like the nurse is played as like an older, trumpier, messier about it.

[24:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Totally, yeah.

[24:29] Tommy Dorfman: And I think we talked about so many different versions, but I think the one that was most interesting. I was just like, well, like I'm gonna, if I'm playing the nurse, I really want to explore like milk culture, like hot mom culture, like older sister, older cousin, best friends, like the girls, sort of the like drag queens that raised me when I was in high school, but then also the like older sisters of like I was supposed to be friends with like the boys in my grade, but really I would always hang out in their like older sister's room, and they would like put lip gloss on me as a kid and like tell me about like their sex lives when I was like nine. You know what I mean? It's like because they were in high school, and so I thought a lot about like it was like my brother's girlfriends because my brother's five years older than me.

And I thought a lot about like the relationship I had as a teenager with them when they were in college and like living sort of vicariously through their experiences and like thinking about the sort of like codependency of Juliet and the nurse, and like who are who are the like parental figures in your life when your parents are so checked out or so like focused on other things and you aren't siblings, and you know, I had a friend, I still have I you know I have a friend who I met her when she was really young and she was really successful. And I remember being like, it's weird that I'm like friends with a 16-year-old, but it's also more like we're family than friends. Like I think we're friends, but we're also like taking care of each other in this other way, and like she doesn't have a lot of family around.

So I thought a lot about those personal relationships that I had, or that really shaped me, older older fit female cousins of mine who like my best, my clo one of my closest cousins is 14 years older than me, and we talk every day and been that way since I was a kid, and she lived with us for a while when I was growing up, and so I got really attached to her. And I think Juliet and the nurse have that kind of relationship. And I think, you know, Juliet was really healing for the nurse.

[26:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Let's take a minute to hear a word from our sponsors.

[26:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Was your relationship with Rachel? Did you guys know each other beforehand? Or did that connect just quicker? Because there is the relationship you're talking about between the nurse and Juliet. You can see between you and Rachel the bonds, the closeness.

[26:48] Tommy Dorfman: There is there's definitely that chemistry that you're talking about wanting to portray is there very easily.

[26:55] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, I think Rachel is the only person I knew going into this process. But we didn't know each other very well. We had met maybe in person twice, and we've been internet friends for years. And I think we were always really aligned sort of on social issues, political issues, as far as like what we would share or not share, speak out about on our forum photos, a fan of hers, and um, I guess you'd have to ask her if she was a fan of mine, but I think she I think she would say, yeah. But I think more than anything, we like really I think we were we were champions of each other's humanity and like the type of the people we were in the world, and I really admire her a lot. And so I think we both felt this like excitement when we realized that we I was gonna be doing this, really just get to know each other in the process.

So we've just gotten really close as artists and as humans in the process of doing this together, which is what happens some if you're lucky and you work with people that you love. And um, I've really fallen in love with her and her work as as it in the show, but also really just her as a person. And we do have a similar, you know, we are like 10 years, nine years apart in age, and so there are these, like, she'll tell me about her personal shit, and I'll tell her about my personal shit, and like she's been through shit, and I've been through shit. And but I still am coming at it from this like different perspective emotionally. And I've I've, you know, have a decade on her. And I think there's a lot of that in the nurse and Juliet.

[28:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[28:28] Tommy Dorfman: In our version, especially to mine. Um, and it was really important for me to find as many reasons as possible in the rehearsal process to love Rachel. So that I could do this eight times a week for Juliet. Because I don't think Juliet treats the nurse great all the time. I don't think like anyone does, honestly.

[28:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, the nurse is a bit of a punching bag.

[28:49] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, and I think we're really interested in playing a version of her that was like still like in her power and like offering a version of the nurse that maybe people hadn't explored before or seen before. Sam has this rule about low-hanging fruit and not picking it.

[29:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[29:07] Tommy Dorfman: Um, which I love as an actor.

[29:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[29:09] Tommy Dorfman: Why make the obvious choice? Sometimes you do, sometimes you want to. Sometimes in Shakespeare, especially, you're like, no, this is the choice we have to make. There's other opportunities, I think, to play. But especially in like the casting of this show in particular, I would say it's not low-hanging fruit caster. That's what makes it so exciting. I mean, you walk into the theater, just then you walk into the lobby and it's exciting already. You feel like you're at an event.

[29:31] Bruce Gotlieb: It really feels that way.

[29:34] Tommy Dorfman: It's really crazy. I was really nervous about our pre-show, and I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna have to see everybody in the audience, and I don't want to do that. And then I'm gonna see like fucking Rosie O'Donnell. I'm gonna be stressed because Rosie's there. And like I'm obsessed with her, you know, like whoever.

[29:54] Bruce Gotlieb: That's incredible.

[29:54] Tommy Dorfman: But it's like I just that was like sort of the first, like, although Tony Colette came on the same show, but she wasn't sat somewhere that I could see. So like that didn't bug me out as much. But yeah, it's like it really that theater is really special to me. I've seen a lot of shows there. When I went to Fordham for acting school, I lived on 50th and 9th.

[30:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, between 10th and 11th.

[30:15] Tommy Dorfman: Okay. Um, I guess, but I walk I was spent a lot of time in that plaza in that area, and I walked by that theater a lot as when I was in my late teens and early twenties. So it's I would second act shows there, I'd see a lot of players there. And musicals there and telephone home there. And I think I always loved that theater for its intimacy.

[30:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[30:37] Tommy Dorfman: Um and people should know that any seat in that theater is a fantastic seat.

[30:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Totally.

[30:43] Tommy Dorfman: It doesn't matter where you are. If you're in the back, you're getting a great seat. So honestly, that's like my favorite place to sit in the theater.

[30:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, really.

[30:52] Tommy Dorfman: Always in the next theater.

[30:54] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I think in that theater, when I would watch while we were rehearsing and teching, I would find myself sort of just sitting in the back corner. Especially because this show is we use the whole theater.

[31:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[31:06] Tommy Dorfman: Right. And I love that the standing room people can sometimes be in the show.

[31:09] Bruce Gotlieb: That's amazing.

[31:10] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, yeah. Anyone who's in standing room, and when I walk by, I try to give them some time. Because I'm like, you're the you're the real heroes at theater.

[31:18] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right.

[31:18] Tommy Dorfman: If you're willing to standing for two standing for fucking Romeo and Juliet, that's it.

[31:22] Bruce Gotlieb: I know.

[31:23] Tommy Dorfman: I mean, and like you said though, you're you're using the entire the entire theater. You're you're coming from above, you're coming from below.

[31:30] Bruce Gotlieb: It's no holds barred when it comes to the staging.

[31:32] Tommy Dorfman: It's really crazy. Is it scary being up so high above?

[31:37] Bruce Gotlieb: No.

[31:37] Tommy Dorfman: No, that's cool. No, the grid doesn't freak me out.

[31:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay.

[31:41] Bruce Gotlieb: When did you guys come?

[31:43] Tommy Dorfman: We were there on Saturday night.

[31:45] Bruce Gotlieb: This past Saturday night.

[31:46] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[31:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Uh-huh.

[31:47] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, amazing.

[31:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Cool.

[31:49] Tommy Dorfman: The Saturday before that I sprained my ankle.

[31:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh no.

[31:52] Tommy Dorfman: Oh no.

[31:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Where on stage?

[31:54] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[31:54] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, I sort of slipped and fell off stage. I just put a stage out.

[32:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[32:00] Tommy Dorfman: But you were able to do the next show.

[32:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, we did a slightly modified version of it, but yeah.

[32:04] Tommy Dorfman: Because it's such a physical show.

[32:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my gosh, I can't imagine.

[32:07] Bruce Gotlieb: And you were talking about the experience of the pre-show, but I have to imagine Stage Door is its own other experience. Because when we were leaving the theater, it's like nothing you've ever seen at most stage doors.

[32:19] Tommy Dorfman: Saturdays are crazy.

[32:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[32:21] Tommy Dorfman: I can imagine.

[32:22] Tommy Dorfman: Kids aren't in school. Saturday matinee is crazy.

[32:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[32:25] Tommy Dorfman: Really?

[32:26] Tommy Dorfman: Is it young, young kids?

[32:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Sometimes.

[32:28] Tommy Dorfman: Sometimes there was like a five-year-old in the audience.

[32:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my gosh.

[32:32] Tommy Dorfman: You're okay.

[32:34] Tommy Dorfman: Um but stayed awake the whole time.

[32:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Whatever.

[32:37] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[32:37] Tommy Dorfman: Love it. You know, a lot of blood. But it's a lot of kids.

[32:43] Tommy Dorfman: There's two sections to stage door now. So there's a section for people who went that night or that matinee, and there's a section for people who came the day before or days before that, but didn't get to get their stop sign.

[32:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh wow.

[32:55] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, wow.

[32:56] Tommy Dorfman: That's so cool.

[32:57] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. I mean, it's really a thing. It's because like hundreds and hundreds of people waiting.

[33:03] Bruce Gotlieb: This is so rare for a there are kids, but there's a lot of adults too.

[33:03] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, I'm sure.

[33:03] Tommy Dorfman: A lot of adults hang out. It's gotta touch people in a way that many shows don't just can't.

[33:14] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, no, there's a lot of tears at stage door. There's a lot of friendship race that's getting thrown around. There's a lot of like teddy bears to sign. It's really, really fucking cool. It's really sweet. I think like I got my start on a teen soap opera.

[33:30] Tommy Dorfman: So I've always understood a version of like teeing fandom.

[33:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Is that 13 Reasons Why?

[33:36] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[33:36] Tommy Dorfman: Like that was my first job. So I sort of like came into this industry with like an understanding of teen fandom. But now to be in this place in my life and my career, eight years later in my 30s, like I just see it in a different way.

[33:51] Bruce Gotlieb: And it's really it's like really tender.

[33:53] Tommy Dorfman: At first it was really scary to me when it was happening and it was so fresh and so new. And now I'm like, oh, you guys are very cute. You're very sweet children.

[34:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Do people still ask you about that at the stage door?

[34:04] Tommy Dorfman: All the time.

[34:06] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, it had like a you know, I think that's the thing with streaming shows. Like they have these like renaissances like people just sort of stumble on them in different moments, or yeah. I mean, there's all and there's also kids, you know, who are now in their 20s who grew up who watched who knew me when they were 14.

[34:25] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[34:25] Tommy Dorfman: And so like that show had the same impact maybe Romeo and Juliet's having on some like 15, 16, 17 year olds, because they feel so of that they're of the age of Romeo and Juliet was the impact that 13 Reasons Why maybe had on kids who are now in their early 20s to mid-20s or late 20s, even and those kids are also at stage door who aren't kids anymore, they're fully adults.

[34:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[34:48] Tommy Dorfman: And they've just known you for their whole lives, pretty much, which is so cool.

[34:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, they're like they're they're sort of later adolescence, early adulthood.

[34:56] Tommy Dorfman: We'll be right back.

[34:57] Tommy Dorfman: We have to listen to some commercials.

[35:02] Bruce Gotlieb: Now getting the start on TV was was theater though always the goal.

[35:07] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, to be fully real about it. I went to I went to undergrad for theater, like studied in Moscow for a little bit, and uh really wanted to make a career out of theater. And when I didn't get into grad school, like if you look at playbills, you'll see that most of the actors are either famous or went to Juilliard or Carnegie Mellon or a really good grad program for plays. I'm I I don't musical theater's not my world.

[35:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[35:37] Tommy Dorfman: It's a little bit different over there, Michigan, right?

[35:39] Bruce Gotlieb: 2TM, whatever.

[35:40] Tommy Dorfman: But so for me, I right at the end of undergrad, I applied to you know, Yale, Juilliard, NYU grad. I didn't get in. I always wanted to do TV and film, but I I just remember being like, okay, I really want to do theater, but I want to do what to me felt like very reputable off-Broadway, Broadway theater.

[36:00] Tommy Dorfman: I was like, I want to work at the workshop, I want to work at the public, I want to work at MTC, I want to work at second stage. I wasn't interested in doing stuff. Yeah, I was like, I'll do workshops, but I really I want to be at a place where I'm like working with like the next degree playwright, whatever. So I just I decided that I would instead of pursuing theater stuff because it was really clear to me that it would be really challenging to get into any of those theaters without the right degree, because they just like don't there's a lot of frankly, just like dumb theater politics at play, I think when you're starting out your career and like who they're willing to see or not see based on where you went to school.

[36:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[36:40] Tommy Dorfman: Like the agents will only look at certain programs.

[36:42] Bruce Gotlieb: So ridiculous.

[36:43] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, like I didn't get agents when I graduated college. Just no one went to the Fordham Showcase, even though there's a lot of working Fordham actors.

[36:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[36:50] Tommy Dorfman: Right. A lot. Anyway, I was like, all right, let me try to. I was like, I think my way into theater is now gonna have to be like making a name for myself in TV or film. It was like such a like a really um delusional way to think, but it paid off, I guess.

[37:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Too young to know how hard it was.

[37:09] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, no, I mean I knew it was gonna be hard, but I so I gave myself like five years to get on a TV show and ended up happening within a year. And then as soon as like that, I remember when Third Seasons by came out out and there was a lot of success and attention around it. It didn't I mean it meant that I'm still an actor who auditions and still very much a working actor who like I'm not, you know, the offers have never rolled in in that way, right? Like it's just that's just not how the industry works for the most part.

[37:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, yeah, that offer only.

[37:34] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, but I had enough sort of like cache, you know, 2017-2018 that I was able to like get a really good manager and get some agents, and I was like, all right, I really want to go to theater now. And so I remember when I met Jeremy O'Harris through a friend when Slave Play was before it even had its off Broadway debut, and he'd sent me this play Daddy, and I read it and I was like, Oh, I fucking love this. Like, yeah, let me know when this is happening. And it ended up getting set up sort of as Slave Play was happening off Broadway. They were they'd set it up uh the new group, The Vineyard, and um I mean I auditioned for it twice and like you know, went through the process, even though Jeremy and I knew each other, but I remember being like, okay, great.

[38:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Like into when I did and then when I did Daddy, I was like, oh yeah, I like need to keep doing theater.

[38:25] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. Then when I did Daddy, I was like, all right, but next time I do a play, I want to have a bigger role that feels like really, like I can like really sink my teeth into.

[38:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, you accomplished that.

[38:34] Tommy Dorfman: But I think I think more to say, like, I just waited. I directed a movie that I wrote and produced. It comes out in the theaters next spring. I wrote a book. I started my production company. I did a bunch of transitioned, like since Daddy. Like I haven't acted really since in a real way since then. I've done like little things here and there for friends mostly.

[38:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, but I haven't really acted since like 2020.

[38:56] Tommy Dorfman: So you must have been so excited to have the opportunity to do this now.

[38:59] Tommy Dorfman: Well, again, and I didn't, I was remember it was like the end of last year. I called my agents and I was like, okay, before I'd like finished editing my movie, really at the top of this year'd finished editing my movie, knew that we were gonna go to South by Southwest to premiere it. And I was like, okay, was supposed to make another movie this fall, direct another movie this fall that's been pushed to next summer because of this play. But but I was like, I need to act before I dressed again. So like just creatively, or did you just Yeah, creatively?

[39:22] Tommy Dorfman: I was like, I miss acting too much. And like, so I will wait until I act before I make this movie. That's right. I remember them being like, uh, okay, yeah, we love that for you. Let's figure it out. And it just again, it was this thing of like I had a couple movie auditions for like movies that I would have liked to do. I got close, but I didn't get them. I was reading stuff that I was like, I don't want to. I did I did a lot, I had a lot of like, I'm not gonna audition for that, I'm not gonna audition for that, I'm gonna wait, I'm gonna wait. And then I remember May and calling me and being like, So there's this new production of Romeo and Juliet. I don't know if you've seen it, and Taylor Williams is casting and Sam Gold is directing the air. They're seeing a bunch of different people for all these different roles, and you know, does this feel like something you would want to do? And I was like, Yeah, this feels like the dream first job back as an actor.

[40:17] Tommy Dorfman: Um that was in like April. And I'm sure you had no idea that Romeo and Juliet would be the buzziest show going.

[40:25] Bruce Gotlieb: No.

[40:25] Tommy Dorfman: Oh my god, no. I was just like, wow, we're gonna, you know, I mean, I think doing Shakespeare in America is like not, it doesn't always resonate here in the same way.

[40:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely.

[40:37] Tommy Dorfman: Oh, but to me, I've always loved I always loved doing classics, and I always loved doing Shakespeare in school. And it's so rare that you get a professional opportunity to do it. And I remember I had a podcast very briefly when I was like just like exploring different mediums of creativity. And I had um Patrick Stewart on my podcast when he was promoting his book, and you know, we talked so much about like RSC and yeah, classics and like how he's revisited so many uh so many Shakespeare plays and Shakespeare roles. And I remember I think like on the episode, I was like, God, like I I can't wait till I can do like a Shakespeare play.

[41:12] Tommy Dorfman: And this was like last year. So it feels really funny and like kizmat and cool. Women like Gabby Deans, who plays Percucio and Friar Lawrence. I'm obsessed with like she went to grad school for and studied classics, like exclusively Shakespeare, basically.

[41:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow in London.

[41:28] Tommy Dorfman: And she never had gotten to do it professionally until this play.

[41:31] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[41:31] Tommy Dorfman: That's amazing. Did you see her in Skin of Our Teeth?

[41:34] Bruce Gotlieb: I didn't because I was like working on my movie.

[41:36] Tommy Dorfman: Our dressing rooms are next to each other, and I I love her more than anything in the world.

[41:40] Bruce Gotlieb: So good.

[41:40] Tommy Dorfman: She's so incredible. Let's talk about your book.

[41:43] Bruce Gotlieb: That's very exciting. Is it all done now?

[41:45] Tommy Dorfman: It's written. It's written. It comes out. You can pre-order it now. Then it comes out Mets May. It's called Maybe This Will Save Me, Harper Collins, Hanover Square.

[41:55] Bruce Gotlieb: Amazing.

[41:56] Tommy Dorfman: But it's it's everywhere. You can, you know, it's at Books a Million. You would pre-order it at Barnes and Noble. You could pre-order it through your local bookstore, I think. If you walk in and ask them. They could pre-order a copy for you. Um, you'd buy your book from Amazon, I guess. You can pre-order it really anywhere. And I'm sure HarperCollins has it on their website too.

[42:15] Bruce Gotlieb: It's on their website as well.

[42:17] Tommy Dorfman: And there will be an audio book.

[42:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Did you do the book?

[42:20] Tommy Dorfman: We haven't recorded the audio for it yet, but I'm gonna read it.

[42:24] Bruce Gotlieb: That's good.

[42:25] Tommy Dorfman: It'll be my voice. That's the best way to hear someone's story.

[42:28] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I'm excited. It has a lot to do with like addiction and recovery and love and loss. And um, it's organized through tarot cards.

[42:36] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, cool.

[42:37] Tommy Dorfman: Like through a tarot reading I did.

[42:39] Bruce Gotlieb: That's fun.

[42:40] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, it's super, it's really non-linear structurally. It moves around a lot from different time periods of my life.

[42:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Um, but it ends in 2023.

[42:50] Tommy Dorfman: So it's an episodic book or is it a linear story?

[42:55] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a non-linear story, but the pieces come together by the end.

[42:59] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[43:00] Bruce Gotlieb: I like fragments of life.

[43:02] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. Um, it might read more like a collection of essays, but there is a through line.

[43:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I like that.

[43:08] Tommy Dorfman: I think it's for me anyway, it makes it less of a journey, which sometimes I don't like that in a book. I like little story that I can come, you know, and visit.

[43:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[43:17] Tommy Dorfman: And I think it is sort of like the kind of book that I think, you know, I've had people who've read it who read it in one sitting. I've had people who were like, oh, it was great, because like I could read an essay or like I could read a chapter on the subway and then a chapter before bed. And like, and you could flip around in the book. Like you could go beginning to end if you wanted to, but you could also go to different places and like different topics and different things.

[43:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I like that because then you can sort of sit with one idea for a while and then you know, get everything out of that and then move on to the next one.

[43:47] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, and it's it's it's organized by tarot cards.

[43:52] Bruce Gotlieb: That's amazing.

[43:53] Tommy Dorfman: So then you sort of have this like the lover section, which I kind of know what that's gonna be.

[43:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Like uh I like that. Do you know about the Hirschfeld tarot book that's out now?

[44:03] Tommy Dorfman: What's that?

[44:04] Bruce Gotlieb: So um you know the director Kenny Leon?

[44:08] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[44:09] Bruce Gotlieb: So his publicist Emily, she wrote a book with the Hirschfeld organization.

[44:14] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, and it's it's about tarot, but it's with Hirschfeld's drawings. It's really, really cool.

[44:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[44:20] Tommy Dorfman: Kenny taught my acting class my senior year of college at Fordham.

[44:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh have fun.

[44:25] Tommy Dorfman: How lucky. He is the best.

[44:26] Bruce Gotlieb: I don't think he remembers me.

[44:29] Tommy Dorfman: I'm really I'm friends with Zoe, and I was like, it's so funny because Kenny was my and there was only like 10 people in the acting class, but I would be shocked if he remembered me.

[44:37] Bruce Gotlieb: It was weird acting class.

[44:40] Tommy Dorfman: But you taught for a whole semester.

[44:42] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[44:42] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah.

[44:43] Bruce Gotlieb: So we are so happy to have you here.

[44:45] Tommy Dorfman: Thank you so much.

[44:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Once you're on our show, your family.

[44:49] Tommy Dorfman: So thank you.

[44:50] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm looking at the Hirschfeld deck. I'm like, whoa, this is cool.

[44:52] Tommy Dorfman: Oh good, you found it. Good.

[44:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, yeah. I was like, I gotta buy that. Anytime you have anything you want to talk about, like when your next movie comes out, we we you have a space here, and we would love to.

[44:56] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, I would love, yeah. I'm sure I'll come back when I I wish you all the best comes out theatrically, and that's very exciting.

[45:08] Bruce Gotlieb: That would be wonderful.

[45:09] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. It's cool too at stage door how many people are fans of that book and are excited for that movie.

[45:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[45:16] Tommy Dorfman: I'm like, all right, I made a movie. When you're like doing abroad, I would have like doing when I'm acting, I like forget about all the other things that I do. I'm like, this is it.

[45:25] Bruce Gotlieb: You forget how I live like a cool cool thing.

[45:27] Tommy Dorfman: And then I'm like, oh. And people that come to see you theatrically, probably also are like, Well, what are you doing next theatrically? Like that's always the the push.

[45:37] Bruce Gotlieb: I would immediately go do a playwright after this if there was one on the table.

[45:41] Tommy Dorfman: Well, you don't know what's gonna happen.

[45:43] Bruce Gotlieb: No, I don't, I don't love it.

[45:44] Tommy Dorfman: I would love I mean, making another movie this summer, but I I could do a play before then, between February and you could go back to the new group.

[45:51] Bruce Gotlieb: They're such a wonderful place.

[45:53] Tommy Dorfman: They're really lovely there. I love the new group.

[45:55] Bruce Gotlieb: I could go to the Kit Hat Club.

[45:57] Tommy Dorfman: Who knows?

[45:57] Bruce Gotlieb: You could.

[45:58] Tommy Dorfman: Who knows? That could be fun.

[46:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, I just want everyone to know that Romeo and Juliet is this an open-ended run.

[46:07] Tommy Dorfman: No, we have. We must close on February 16th.

[46:11] Bruce Gotlieb: All right.

[46:12] Tommy Dorfman: Well, you better get there before then because you're good luck getting there before that.

[46:16] Bruce Gotlieb: It's like already like sold out.

[46:18] Tommy Dorfman: It's crazy. But there's lotteries.

[46:19] Bruce Gotlieb: I mean, try to get it.

[46:20] Tommy Dorfman: There's lotteries, there's standing room, there are tickets available. Just don't come now.

[46:24] Bruce Gotlieb: Come go get tickets for January and February.

[46:28] Tommy Dorfman: That's that's a good, that's a good play. Because that is, yeah. Like, don't try to come next week. Try to come later.

[46:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, and we'll be grateful because I think we are like there's so much hype, but there's so much excitement about our show right now. But like, what if people stop coming by February?

[46:44] Tommy Dorfman: Everyone should just buy people that are important to them in their lives. Romeo and Juliet tickets for Christmas for Hanukkah for Christmas.

[46:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Get that as Romeo and Juliet technology for January for February.

[46:56] Tommy Dorfman: We want to see you when there's like four hours of sunlight and snow on the ground.

[47:00] Bruce Gotlieb: Valentine's Day in the Natural.

[47:02] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, we'll warm it up for you. It's a circle.

[47:04] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. But really, it's a very special production. So try to get there if you can.

[47:09] Tommy Dorfman: And Tommy's book is going to be a big deal.

[47:11] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[47:12] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah. Pre-order my book. There's a link in my bio on my and people should know that the pre-orders are really, really important.

[47:18] Bruce Gotlieb: So if you want to support Tommy, now is the time to order the book.

[47:21] Tommy Dorfman: Pre-orders are more important, honestly.

[47:23] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that's how you get on those bestseller lists.

[47:26] Tommy Dorfman: Yeah, so you can pre-order it as a gift. It comes out next May, but you could pre-order it and you get this wonderful surprise.

[47:34] Bruce Gotlieb: It'll be the best $25 you spend today.

[47:37] Tommy Dorfman: Absolutely. The holidays will be all about Tommy, that's all.

[47:39] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. Everyone getting printed out versions of the cover.

[47:43] Tommy Dorfman: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

[47:47] Bruce Gotlieb: We absolutely love Tatum.

[47:48] Tommy Dorfman: Thanks for having me, of course.

[47:49] Bruce Gotlieb: And we let me know if you come back to the show.

[47:51] Tommy Dorfman: We will.

[47:52] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay, we'll do. We'll see you next time on Behind the Awards.

[47:55] Tommy Dorfman: Bye-bye.