This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] McKinley Belcher III: Hey, I'm McKinley Belcher III, and you're listening to Behind the Awards.

[0:03] Eila Mell: I never thought I'd be so happy to be called a hack.

[0:15] Eila Mell: Hello and welcome to Behind the Awards. I'm Eila. I'm here with Bruce.

[0:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Hey, Eila.

[0:21] Eila Mell: Hey, Bruce, how are you?

[0:22] Bruce Gotlieb: I'm happy to be here with you today.

[0:24] Eila Mell: Are you as happy as Jean Smart was?

[0:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, I didn't just win a major award. So maybe not that happy, but pretty happy.

[0:32] Eila Mell: It's funny. I'm sure when they created the show, Jean Smart didn't think people are gonna be walking around calling her or associating her as a hack.

[0:39] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. In her mind when you think forward to like where's my career gonna be.

[0:44] Eila Mell: Right.

[0:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Well that's not on anyone's list normally.

[0:47] Eila Mell: It's one of her biggest hits ever. So I am sure she has no problem being associated with the word anymore.

[0:54] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, really. Nothing wrong with hacks.

[0:56] Eila Mell: I haven't really watched the show. I saw a few episodes, but I haven't really taken the time to give it a proper watch.

[1:02] Bruce Gotlieb: How about you?

[1:03] Eila Mell: Okay. I also am in that same camp, but everybody who I know who has taken the time loves it.

[1:10] Bruce Gotlieb: It's almost like a cult, and people are trying to recruit people into the Hacks cult.

[1:16] Eila Mell: So do you feel more in like you want to dig your heels in the sand and be like, well, you can't—

[1:16] Bruce Gotlieb: No, no, no.

[1:23] Eila Mell: I just feel like I will get to it. I just am not there right now. You know, right now I'm very invested in Severance because it just came back.

[1:31] Bruce Gotlieb: So I'm watching that, and you know, so and I wanted to rewatch the first season. Plus our pal Donald Weber Jr. is in it, which I forgot.

[1:41] Eila Mell: Absolutely. That's fun. Um, so anyway, yeah, that's where my mind is at right now.

[1:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay. But I will get to Hacks at some point. Especially now that Jean Smart, you know, has—well, not now. I mean, she has been winning for a while, right?

[1:55] Eila Mell: Yeah, it's just, you know, okay. It's okay. We can be a little late to the party. That's okay.

[2:00] Bruce Gotlieb: But she's still Charlene to me. I loved her so much on Designing Women.

[2:05] Eila Mell: What about—oh shoot, now I'm drawing a blank.

[2:07] Bruce Gotlieb: What about what else did she do? That waitress show.

[2:10] Eila Mell: What waitress show?

[2:12] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a Living.

[2:13] Eila Mell: It's a Living, wasn't she in that?

[2:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, she wasn't on that.

[2:16] Eila Mell: Are you thinking of Angelina?

[2:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Maybe.

[2:20] Eila Mell: Oh no. Angelina, the original Baby June, or one of the Baby Junes in the movie, maybe.

[2:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Are you Googling it?

[2:27] Eila Mell: I am because I could have sworn she was in it.

[2:29] Bruce Gotlieb: I can be wrong too, though.

[2:31] Eila Mell: I'm pretty good with my pop culture. I'd be shocked.

[2:34] Bruce Gotlieb: You are, you are. But yeah, you get a replacement later on in the year. Sometimes in those last seasons, you don't know what they're doing.

[2:40] Eila Mell: She is not. However, in season four, Charlie Raffaels is in the cast as Ginger St. James.

[2:46] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. Crystal Bernard was on that.

[2:48] Eila Mell: Who else?

[2:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, all the women who were in the first season, besides Angelina, I don't think anyone ever heard of before.

[2:55] Eila Mell: No, but I do remember being homesick from school with clothes and just enjoying it. So that was a fun show. Like, so as a kid, I thought it would be so glamorous to be a waitress in a restaurant and get to wear that little choker that they got to wear.

[3:09] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, right. And the outfits. It was a good restaurant. It was a bit higher end, but they never had the, you know, quite the dinner rush like you see when you go out to eat.

[3:19] Eila Mell: I know, right? You know.

[3:21] Bruce Gotlieb: Every table's full and the kitchen's firing on all cylinders.

[3:24] Eila Mell: I know. Yeah. And they didn't really have very special episodes.

[3:28] Bruce Gotlieb: No, it wasn't that kind of show.

[3:30] Eila Mell: Yeah. I mean, I think their biggest problem was being harassed by that piano player guy.

[3:34] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. That's right. Who I think is now a producer on Broadway, I think.

[3:39] Eila Mell: Maybe. I could be wrong, but maybe.

[3:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Okay. So speaking about Broadway, which we almost always are, we had the chance to get to see English.

[3:52] Eila Mell: That's right. So this is a Pulitzer Prize-winning play by Sanaz Toossi. And did you know, Bruce, that it's a New York Times critics pick?

[4:01] Bruce Gotlieb: I did not know that.

[4:03] Eila Mell: So the show officially opened the day before we were recording this. So not when you're listening, yesterday, but for us, right in this moment, yesterday.

[4:12] Bruce Gotlieb: That's right. And almost every review was great. So what was your feeling when you sat down? Because there isn't much, especially with a typically with a play.

[4:21] Eila Mell: Yeah. Um, and not to compare one to the other, but like when you sat down to see Hells of California, it was a moment because you had the staircase. You saw a lot going on. That was a very dramatic set for Hells of California.

[4:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. This was very simple.

[4:34] Eila Mell: This was very simple. I didn't know what I was looking at. I thought maybe, is this a school? Because I had some idea just because I read like the little blurb. I really didn't know anything about where the story was gonna go, but just that it had something to do with a school.

[4:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[4:50] Eila Mell: So I had no expectations because I didn't know. And I like that. That's my favorite to go into a show not knowing anything.

[4:57] Bruce Gotlieb: So what was your take?

[5:19] Eila Mell: Um, I thought it was really funny in the first half, which was fine. I didn't mind that it got more serious as it went on. You know, I think a good play can do that a lot of the time because, you know, you have to ease into where it's going. I thought the acting was very, very good. I really liked the play. Overall, I thought it was—I was gonna say mostly good, but I think it's all good. I think it's a very good play. I don't know that it's my favorite play of the season, but I certainly liked it and I'm thinking about it more since I left. So that's a really good sign, the fact that it stayed with me. I didn't know if it would because you don't know until it comes back to you. So yeah, I really did like it a lot. It was a nice surprise, and not that I expected it to not be good, but surprise just in that I really didn't know.

[5:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, right. Um, I did have a couple of issues, but I want to get your first impression first.

[5:56] Eila Mell: Uh, my first takeaway after leaving the theater was that it was good.

[6:01] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[6:02] Eila Mell: It was a good play. I wasn't bowled over. I wasn't, oh my god, what did I just see? In a good or bad way.

[6:08] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[6:09] Eila Mell: Um, I just—I left and I said, okay, you know, the acting was strong. There were some interesting things that I questioned just in the whole grand scheme of the show.

[6:18] Bruce Gotlieb: Do you want to say specifically what?

[6:21] Eila Mell: So in the show, this takes place in an adult education setting.

[6:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[6:26] Eila Mell: So a school in general, but you know, more of like maybe you hear people going to the night class at a community college, that type of a vibe. So the play centers around these students, these adult learners learning how to be more proficient in the English language.

[6:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, which is not their first language, obviously.

[6:43] Eila Mell: Correct. And it takes place outside of America.

[6:46] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, which I had no idea.

[6:47] Eila Mell: For me, I had a feeling if it didn't take place outside of America that it took place in a community center specifically for this culture because you're sitting and you're looking at the outside or what would be the outside of the building, and there are foreign language, or at least foreign to Americans, right? Foreign language different phrases on the side of the building.

[7:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[7:09] Eila Mell: So I knew at least they let you know that you're not—this isn't English, obviously.

[7:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[7:15] Eila Mell: So the play, the dialogue is all in English, a lot of broken English, until they're speaking in Farsi.

[7:22] Bruce Gotlieb: I really loved this part.

[7:23] Eila Mell: Did you? You didn't like it as much?

[7:25] Bruce Gotlieb: I found it to be a little—I don't want to say confusing or distracting, but somewhere within that mix.

[7:32] Eila Mell: So when they were speaking Farsi, they were, you know, perfect English pronunciation, no accent trace.

[7:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[7:39] Eila Mell: That's how they distinguished between the American English and the Farsi when they were speaking that, right. It just sounded like their native language. But we hear it as English.

[7:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[7:50] Eila Mell: And the actress who was playing the teacher, when they would start doing that, she would say English only. And then you would hear the switch back. It took me a little while to understand. I was the first actress who, you know, spoke like that because when they speak in English in the play, you know, in the world of the play, they have accents and their phrasing isn't exact.

[8:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[8:13] Eila Mell: And because, you know, they don't know the language as well yet. So that's the device where they can speak two languages and the audience can still understand everything.

[8:22] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[8:23] Eila Mell: But it did take me, you know, a little while to understand that that's what was happening.

[8:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it took a couple of passes around for me to be like, oh, she's—we're hearing it perfect for us as they would be hearing it perfect for them in their name in Farsi.

[8:39] Eila Mell: Okay, so that's interesting. So that didn't work as much for you because I really liked that about it.

[8:43] Bruce Gotlieb: I understood it. Once I understood it, I understood it. I don't know if it was as effective for me. I would almost—and I'm not one to want to read my media, as you know.

[8:57] Eila Mell: Yes.

[8:58] Bruce Gotlieb: I would have almost rathered they do a subtitle projection and speak in Farsi in that moment.

[9:05] Eila Mell: Okay.

[9:06] Bruce Gotlieb: Just because I felt that that's part—that's part of the show, that's part of this play is the juxtaposition between the two languages and feeling comfortable in their own skin in their own language and trying to feel comfortable in English.

[9:23] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[9:24] Bruce Gotlieb: So I felt by always getting English, yes, it was more fluent, but I thought it could have maybe helped push the narrative a little bit more if they did it differently.

[9:35] Eila Mell: Okay. Yeah. And for me, I just felt like we got to see them in a more confident manner when they're speaking, you know, Farsi.

[9:44] Bruce Gotlieb: Farsi slash English, right?

[9:46] Eila Mell: Sure. So my, you know, my main issue with it was not a big thing, but it was with the set.

[9:53] Bruce Gotlieb: So the set rotates a lot throughout the show.

[9:57] Eila Mell: And there—so depending on the position of the set, there were just sightline issues for me.

[10:03] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure.

[10:03] Eila Mell: So that bothered me. And also, you know, like sometimes there was, you know, like, would you call it a beam in the way blocking an actor? Sometimes there were chairs in the classroom that were blocking actors.

[10:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[10:15] Eila Mell: So, you know, that—so some scenes I liked more just because I could see it better. And, you know, we had an excellent seat. So it wasn't that I had a restricted view. It was just because, you know, I guess you can't always see everything. I guess there's a blind spot somewhere on the set. So that kind of bothered me a little bit. I would have preferred maybe if it didn't move this way, there wouldn't be a blind spot, or I don't know what the answer is. I mean, the set was good. It was very good by Marsha Ginsburg, you know, just—and I like the movement of it. That made it really interesting.

[10:47] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, they definitely used the rotation of the set along with lighting to be able to dictate passage of time.

[10:55] Eila Mell: Yeah, right.

[10:56] Bruce Gotlieb: The movement of the set, although interesting, also could be distracting and take you away for a little bit. Because aside from the movement of the set, you did—you could have kept the changing of light to pass time. Plus, every time the set moved, the actors moved.

[11:12] Eila Mell: Yes.

[11:13] Bruce Gotlieb: So they were always rotating where they were sitting, or they would move a bag to a different chair to denote a passage of time.

[11:19] Eila Mell: Right.

[11:19] Bruce Gotlieb: And that was effective.

[11:21] Eila Mell: Right. So I don't know—moving—I don't know that the set would have—the set didn't necessarily have to move.

[11:27] Bruce Gotlieb: And then I was also thinking, well, because it's from this point of view now, does that change—like are we supposed to think of it in a different way because we're looking at it from a different point of view?

[11:37] Eila Mell: You know, and I feel like maybe I shouldn't be thinking about that. I should just be listening to the words of the blessing.

[11:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, and there were a few scenes that happened outside of the building. So when they did have to do that rotation, so you got that back door.

[11:48] Eila Mell: Right.

[11:49] Bruce Gotlieb: I understood that, but that could have been the only rotation.

[11:52] Eila Mell: And that was a nice reveal.

[11:54] Bruce Gotlieb: And that would have been—that would have been a no.

[11:56] Eila Mell: Yeah, I agree.

[11:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I would have—I know you also didn't love that it looked like a bedroom door as opposed to like a school door.

[12:03] Eila Mell: Well, yes.

[12:04] Bruce Gotlieb: So that—I didn't know that I was gonna say that, but that's okay. I could take it up.

[12:08] Eila Mell: Yeah, I so I personally felt like, oh, there was a door in the classroom, but it looked like a door in a home, not in a classroom.

[12:16] Bruce Gotlieb: But I could be wrong about that because maybe, you know, in around that's what it would look like there, or maybe it's not in a traditional school. Maybe it's in a building that was once a house.

[12:24] Eila Mell: So, you know, it just—it was just a question for me that I was thinking about.

[12:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, I noticed it. I definitely noticed it being different.

[12:35] Eila Mell: Um, but then I wondered maybe you're in the privately funded school. They're not ordering, you know, like they are at, you know, PS whatever.

[12:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, right. No.

[12:45] Eila Mell: You know, there were a couple of questions that were posed that were never answered in the course of the play, and I would have liked those answers, but sometimes in life you don't get those answers.

[12:56] Bruce Gotlieb: So I don't think that's a fault of the play.

[12:58] Eila Mell: It's just something that—that was just a takeaway. Like, I would like to know what happened to this one particular character who never came back because the teacher knew the answer, where she was, but we never got to know. But that's okay.

[13:11] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[13:12] Eila Mell: And it did feel like eventually you might get, you know, some loose ends tied up. But I did, I agree. I feel like there were a couple of characters, a couple of plot points that were mentioned, and if they weren't going to be resolved, did we need them? Maybe we did because maybe they helped other pieces move.

[13:31] Bruce Gotlieb: I just personally would have liked a little more closure with them. But I'm not I'm not faulting the play for that because, you know, that's just how it is sometimes.

[13:43] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of times you sit down and you watch a movie and there's you know, it gets to the end and you're like, but wait.

[13:49] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[13:49] McKinley Belcher III: I know. Where's the rest of it? And sometimes in life you don't get answers when you want them.

[13:53] Bruce Gotlieb: Many times.

[13:54] McKinley Belcher III: That's right. But what I did especially like was the relationship between Marjon the teacher and Elham the student. Elham, it was played by Tala Ash, and Marjon the teacher is Marjah Nishat. Those two actresses were great, and just that whole storyline really drove. I mean, I think it's really about those two characters more than anyone else. And I really, really like that.

[14:19] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, it was a fully fleshed out relationship.

[14:22] McKinley Belcher III: Mm-hmm. And it was an interesting relationship too.

[14:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. You know, it wasn't just your normal, you know, uh student teacher, and also as two adult women, it wasn't your normal, you know, just average relationship.

[14:36] McKinley Belcher III: Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, they just had different points of view on life too.

[14:41] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[14:41] McKinley Belcher III: So they were very different people. So I, you know, I thought that was very, very successful. And, you know, and all the actors were great. Curious to see whether or not it being a Pulitzer Prize winner certainly helps its chance when it comes to award season. But it's still early.

[14:57] Bruce Gotlieb: Right. It's so early. There's still a lot of plays to open.

[15:03] McKinley Belcher III: Yes. So you wonder, you know, how will it be remembered? Um, you know, it's not quite as early as something like home, which was like the first one.

[15:11] Bruce Gotlieb: The first show, yeah.

[15:12] McKinley Belcher III: Um, so it certainly has a little bit more of a chance. I'm just wondering if while the story was was good, is it impactful enough to stay with with Tony voters as they start seeing more and more things open up?

[15:26] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, because it's going to start to be a rush of getting to see everything before the cutoff.

[15:30] McKinley Belcher III: And we Yeah. Once March rolls around, it's like worked out.

[15:34] Bruce Gotlieb: I know. Hopefully, it'll get something. I think it's deserving of something. But you know, you it's so hard to predict because John Proctor is the villain is coming. We don't know what that's gonna be. Good night and good luck is coming, you know. We we know the movie, we don't know the play.

[15:48] McKinley Belcher III: So, by the way, is English is a new play or a revival? Because I know it was off Broadway.

[15:55] Bruce Gotlieb: I don't believe it's been part of the committee. So that's another question. I I'm really glad I saw it. I definitely recommend it to people. I think that it's very enjoyable and really worthwhile. And you know, it there's a lot of issues that will give you a lot to talk about.

[16:11] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah, we don't want to give any spoilers, of course. You know, some people like them, some people don't.

[16:15] Bruce Gotlieb: I know.

[16:17] McKinley Belcher III: Um, but it is an hour and 40 minutes. There's no intermission. And here's my best recommendation. I didn't once wonder when it was gonna end. Sometimes when a show, even if I like it, is long, I start to think, is it wrapping up? And that didn't cross my mind once.

[16:35] Bruce Gotlieb: So that's good.

[16:36] McKinley Belcher III: Absolutely. So speaking of interesting relationships.

[16:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[16:41] McKinley Belcher III: I'm gonna use it as a segue. A guide for the homesick, which we were lucky enough to have the playwright Ken Urban on earlier.

[16:48] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[16:49] McKinley Belcher III: He wrote a beautiful play dealing with Yeah, two sets, two sets of sets of relationships. Very interesting relationships played by two actors.

[16:58] Bruce Gotlieb: So McKinley Belcher and Yuli Schlesinger.

[17:01] McKinley Belcher III: Schlesinger. I don't know why I have such trouble with that name, but it makes me crazy. They play two characters each in this play. I love this play. I think McKinley Belcher is just such a wonderful actor. So I'm so excited that he is our guest today.

[17:17] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes. So let's not make him wait any further.

[17:20] McKinley Belcher III: No, here's McKinley. We'll be right back. We have to listen to some commercials.

[17:28] Bruce Gotlieb: So, McKinley, as you know, I was so excited to see a guide for the homesick because McKinley Belcher, the third, is in it. And you know, I think he's incredible. And I'm so happy to welcome him to the show.

[17:42] McKinley Belcher III: Hey. Thank you for having me.

[17:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh my God. Thank you so much for joining us. We're thrilled to have you here. It's such a treat.

[17:50] McKinley Belcher III: My gosh.

[17:50] Bruce Gotlieb: So we have a new thing. We were asking everyone the same question to start off.

[17:55] McKinley Belcher III: Okay.

[17:55] Bruce Gotlieb: It's a little icebreaker. So um, what was the last Broadway or off-Broadway show you got to see?

[18:02] McKinley Belcher III: Oh, the last Broadway show that I saw is a little while ago. Between Riverside and Crazy.

[18:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, wasn't that great?

[18:08] McKinley Belcher III: Yes. And Stephen McKinley Henderson is one of my favorite actors. So it was such a treat. I remember going back because I saw it off-Broadway uh when it was uh at the second stage smaller space. And I just remember talking to my castmates and death of a salesman. Like he has so much ease.

[18:20] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh yes.

[18:24] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah. Yes. Wow. I just saw him in that Ted Danson show, Man on the Inside, and he's great in that too.

[18:29] Bruce Gotlieb: I bet.

[18:30] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah. Class act.

[18:32] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. Does your McKinley have anything to do with his McKinley?

[18:36] McKinley Belcher III: In fact that I was. Mine is just the traditional one. It's my dad's name and his father's name. So I'm the third.

[18:40] Bruce Gotlieb: Ah, very nice.

[18:42] McKinley Belcher III: So I was telling you before we started that I loved Soldier's Play that you were in. And that was your Broadway debut.

[18:49] McKinley Belcher III: It was.

[18:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, I mean, how do you get to work with such an incredible group of actors and one of the best directors, Kenny Leon, on your debut? How did that happen?

[18:58] McKinley Belcher III: It it it's it's pretty amazing. Kenny and I have a long history going way back. I'm from Atlanta. And before I was even sure I wanted to be an actor, I was gonna go to law school. So I was working at a law firm in Atlanta. Carol before I I started law school. I took a gap year. And I I remember I did one play in undergrad because I didn't study acting. And the director was like, Oh, you should go to grad school for acting. And when I realized I didn't want to go to law school, I was like gonna quit my job and apply to grad schools. But I was like, Well, I've only done one play, so I should do one more before I I do this. And I did a play at True Colors, the theater company that K Kenny was leading at that time. So that's when I first met him, like way back in like gosh, it may it must have been like 2007 or something like that.

[19:42] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah. Um did he direct that play as well?

[19:44] McKinley Belcher III: He did not. Uh, but he was the artistic director of the theater, and he had directed sort of a previous version of it that uh Padra Harris sort of took on and sort of ushered uh new cast into. It was the whiz. Uh who to play? I was like an honest old member. I played Uncle Henry and uh Flying Monkey and a couple other things. But it's it's kind of funny because you know, Chloe and Hallie the singers.

[20:07] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[20:08] McKinley Belcher III: I think Chloe was our Dorothy.

[20:10] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh, really?

[20:11] McKinley Belcher III: Uh Jakina Calakango was in that production. Amazing. Because it's a bunch of people, and you're like, wow, this is kind of an amazing being in random happening in Atlanta. So Kenny is very close to my beginning of my acting journey. And then to have him sort of direct my Broadway debut was really beautiful. And there are so many uh amazing actors that were in that original production off Broadway. So it's like a real honor to like bring it to Broadway for the first time.

[20:34] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes. Right. And Charles Fuller was still around when when you did that show.

[20:39] McKinley Belcher III: Yes, yes. Uh yeah.

[20:41] Bruce Gotlieb: A gift.

[20:42] McKinley Belcher III: And was that just a straight audition you went out and it was.

[20:45] McKinley Belcher III: I remember I was deciding whether to be in that production or in another production that got delayed by the pandemic because that was all happening around the same time. Um I'm glad it was that one. And uh it came as a regular audition. Um, and then I don't think Kenny knew I was coming in. So wow. When I walked in the room, he's like, ah, that's but yeah, it went really well. And I'm really glad that's my brother. It's such a great show. And you got to work with David Alan Greer and Underwood.

[21:12] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[21:13] McKinley Belcher III: One of my favorites, Billy Eugene Jones. Uh-huh. A great cast. Yeah, Nambi Asamoa and uh Jay Alphonse Nicholson, just like some amazing people, uh, up and coming and some people really established, but a lot of the people in that production are still my friends to this day, and that that's always a gift.

[21:27] Bruce Gotlieb: Absolutely. Absolutely. Did you end up going to grad school then?

[21:31] McKinley Belcher III: I did. So I took that gap year. I was working at that law firm. I did the production at True Colors. Two weeks after I quit, I came up to New York and I did like a fringe show. And then I started grad school that fall.

[21:43] Bruce Gotlieb: Where'd you go?

[21:44] McKinley Belcher III: Uh USC in LA. They must have some great training because I mean, it seems like you've been acting since you're born.

[21:50] Bruce Gotlieb: Oh.

[21:52] McKinley Belcher III: It's really funny to go to grad school with uh in my class, there were like 12 actors that create a sort of company. And like everyone in my company, like they have been acting since they were eight. Yeah. Acted in high school, they studied it in undergrad, and meanwhile, I was like, I just started to be an actor last year. So I I just kind of wasn't like, fill me up. I don't know what I'm doing.

[22:13] Bruce Gotlieb: Was it something that was in the back of your mind growing up when you would see a show or go to a movie and think, you know, down the road, or this could be fun?

[22:22] McKinley Belcher III: If I'm being honest, no. When I was in undergrad, because I knew at that time I thought I wanted to be an attorney, so I I studied political science and communication studies. I started doing, I joined a debate team so that I could sort of get more in contact in my body in terms of thinking on your feet and speaking and putting words to it. So I did parliamentary debate, and there's a whole other side of that that is sort of more um interpretive and individual events like persuasion, duo, dramatic interpretation. And the more I did it, the more I started gravitating to that side of what was available to me. Uh so I started reading things like I'm Mary Baraka and the Dutchman and Raising the Sun.

And that was sort of my sort of introduction to so many things. But even then, I I was still on this track of uh wanting to be an attorney. I remember when the director of Raising the Son said, Oh, you should, you should think about doing this for real. I was like, oh no, I'm going to law school. And so it sort of filed away in the back of my head. And I remember it must have been like my junior or my senior year. My mom sent me a DVD of Antoine Fisher, the movie that uh Denzel Washington directed. And to this day, I don't actually know why she sent it to me. She was just like, this reminded me of you. Uh and so I watched it weeping. Uh-huh. And then watched it immediately again. And then for whatever reason, I had this thought of like, not I could do something like that.

I could do that. But even then, still filed it away in the bat. And then when I was sitting at that desk at the law firm, I was like, this is not it. The attorneys I were working, I was working for were making lots of money, but very unhappy. I was like, this is not what I want to do. Uh so what is the last thing that I can think of that was fulfilling? And it was doing that play. So then I thought about that director saying that, and I thought about how I felt when I saw that film. So I was like, okay, sit sitting there at my law firm desk, I started looking for grad schools, and I applied to NYU and USC. Just two.

[24:14] Bruce Gotlieb: Wow.

[24:14] McKinley Belcher III: Just two. In fact, in fact, if I'm being honest, I only applied to NYU. I flew to Chicago. I took two days off from work and flew to Chicago to audition. And the only reason I auditioned for a USC is because they were auditioning right next door to NYU. And I was talking to one of the admissions people while I was waiting. So I was only gonna apply to NYU.

[24:33] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah.

[24:34] McKinley Belcher III: Oh, okay. Isn't that crazy?

[24:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Yes.

[24:36] McKinley Belcher III: But fade into it. Everything happens the way it's supposed to.

[24:39] Bruce Gotlieb: Right, exactly.

[24:40] McKinley Belcher III: Wow. So you go to USC, was the thought to stay in California ever?

[24:44] Bruce Gotlieb: That's a good question.

[24:45] McKinley Belcher III: I think I toyed around with it. Like I stayed for two, two and a half years after I graduated. I graduated in 2010. And I didn't start leaving to come to New York with like uh a lot of repetition until like maybe uh 2012, and I didn't move into 2013. If you ask my classmates, they're like, oh, he was always gonna move to New York because I just love the theater. It's always been my first love in terms of like how I express myself artistically. I think I just wanted to be someplace where I could do all the things, and New York is the place, uh is that place for me.

[25:15] Bruce Gotlieb: Sure.

[25:15] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah.

[25:16] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, that's true. But you did a lot of work. I mean, you've done a lot of TV and films, so it's not like you aren't experienced that. I mean, I didn't even realize, of course, I watched it like everyone else, but you had a a big arc in Ozark.

[25:29] McKinley Belcher III: I did.

[25:30] Bruce Gotlieb: That's amazing because that's so many people's favorite show.

[25:33] McKinley Belcher III: Hey, we like that.

[25:35] Bruce Gotlieb: Yeah, I've been really fortunate in in terms of getting to bounce constantly from 2010 to now. I've done a couple plays. Maybe there's only one year in there from 2010 to now, and most of that is because of the pandemic that I didn't do a play, and then I got to do sort of films and TV interspersed throughout all of that stuff. And that's my idea of a good time. I just feel like the theater stuff informs how I approach the work on camera. So um, I'm always grateful when they get to sort of talk to each other in that way.

[26:05] Bruce Gotlieb: Do you feel like when you do a play and then you go do something else, you know, on on film, it changes from the last time you were in something on screen?

[26:14] McKinley Belcher III: Absolutely. I mean, like it's funny because you get in these conversations with agents and their decision making based on very different things. And I had to have like a couple conversations with uh my team about like, well, when I do a play, it is reminding me of who I am as an artist. It is also sort of like the the closest I get to being in control of being in direct communication with people. There's no one, there's no editor or director or device between me and the audience. I am in charge of ushering a story from beginning to end and handing it directly to an audience. Uh and that will always be a more muscular and in some ways a more difficult challenge to have than being able to do it in little snippets.

[26:56] Bruce Gotlieb: Right.

[26:56] McKinley Belcher III: So inevitably, when I come to the on-camera stuff, it always feels so much easier to me to do things in small little chunks and and really know how to use a take, because I'm used to doing a show eight times a week and no show is a light.

[27:09] McKinley Belcher III: So I try different stuff. There's a framework, but I am sort of living and breathing with the thing and trying to discover things. Uh and to me, that's exciting to bring to the on-camera work. And you get to flex the muscles that you get to use on stage and vice versa, you know, and pick up different things. And it works the other way around too. Cause like I think there are obviously some very subtle things that you can sort of live in on camera that is sometimes very difficult to do on stage unless you're in a very small space. So I love sort of sometimes I get used to I do a limit series for six months, and then I do a film and then I do another 11-minute series that I've been acting on camera for like a year or so, and then I come back to on stage.

I'm like, well, well, how how do the things that uh have become home for me and those other things, how how do I let that scene in in the in the show that I'm doing? And that's an exciting challenge for me, because like I always want it to be the truth. And just because there is a kind of amplification in the theater doesn't mean it can't always be the truth.

[28:07] Eila Mell: Sure. So the theater that you're in now with A Guide for the Homesick, that's the same thing. I mean, I guess almost you know, well, one of the characters. But um, you're in the DR2, and that's a nice small intimate space. When I walked in, I was so excited that it was a small space because you know it was gonna be right up close. Right. Um, so do you feel like you get to use more of that kind of on camera uh work for that show in a way?

[28:35] McKinley Belcher III: Yes, I do actually. I I think that was one of the things that once we started tech and we were in the space, I was really interested in sort of understanding the balance of like how to calibrate and like what is the lowest I can go and still be heard and uh felt by the audience. Uh because I think that's all like uh that those subtleties can be really beautiful when you're on stage and you can let yourself be in a way that doesn't mean you have to sort of push it to the back row. So I was really excited when it was a small space because it's a very intimate play, and there's some very human and challenging things happening in the play that I think lend themselves to a small space and lend themselves to that sort of subtlety.

[29:12] Eila Mell: We had Ken Urban on, and we did a very deep dive into the show. So he had mentioned that you you've been part of the production in its original incarnation, uh, you know, back in I think it was 2017.

[29:24] McKinley Belcher III: Yes. Um so now revisiting the character, did you find that obviously life happened, right? So I'm sure those things would inform how you approach the character then versus now, where the characters, I should say, because you do you play two characters.

[29:37] Eila Mell: Right.

[29:38] McKinley Belcher III: Uh absolutely. I mean, when when I did it in 2017, which is like seven years ago, it's crazy. That is awesome. Uh Coleman Domingo directed that production. And I remember I'm always in this position where like I had to choose between two things. And uh I think at that time I was choosing between that and doing Hamlet at the Old Glove.

[30:01] Eila Mell: Oh wow.

[30:02] McKinley Belcher III: Like for an actor, like for me, I I was a little bit scared of not saying yes to Hamlet because you don't know if that's gonna come back around again. And that is a dream for me to get to do that. But when I read this play, uh it scared me. Um it it to me, it asks of you uh so much. And uh it was a thing that I was like, oh, I think I can maybe find a way to do that once or twice, but I don't know if I can repeat that eight times a week, like the sort of emotional places that it asks you to go to, the playing of two different people, and in my case, two very different people.

[30:34] Eila Mell: Very different.

[30:35] McKinley Belcher III: But it's been a real gift to get to do it then. And at that time, I it was true that it was the hardest thing that I had ever done. And then had to have seven years of life and to mature in ways. Um, I mean, I've since got married, have many more responsibilities in life than I had at that time. I and I've also sort of been on my own personal journey with my own queerness. And so I think the play has sort of occupied this space that is even more important to me because it speaks to on a global scale, the journey of queer folk and the difficulties, the beauty of it, uh, and and then the sort of personal sort of coming to terms with self and loving yourself and finding the beauty in self that like those are all things that I want to shine a light on and celebrate.

[31:22] McKinley Belcher III: So I'm so grateful to Ken because it's a real honor to get to honor what's happening in Uganda, to honor the journey internally, and then in a way, it's like my brand of activism. It's like I get to sort of speak to something that feels important to me through my work.

[31:38] Eila Mell: And have politics affected your evolution in this play, because politics are a bit different now than they were in 2017.

[31:45] McKinley Belcher III: Yes. I think I'm saying that right. And Ken and I were in sort of contact over the years because we've become actual friends. And there was a point where we were worried, like, oh, has the play dated itself in a way? Because some of the uh like the bill, that same question in the play in Uganda, there was a time where it it was gonna like go away, where uh it did not go through, and then uh there was a kind of activism happening there and a sort of uh international focus on it that was causing things to move in a different direction. But since then, those things have regressed in a way, and the exact same bill is on the table and being adjudicated there. So, like there is no better time for us to be doing the play because it's highlighting something not that was happening then, but that it's happening still now.

[32:31] Eila Mell: And the idea, go ahead.

[32:34] McKinley Belcher III: No, I was gonna say in this country too, people are scared for their rights at this point.

[32:38] Eila Mell: Yes.

[32:38] McKinley Belcher III: Uh, and then that's even sort of exacerbated by uh what's happening here. And that there's this sort of illusion of progress. Uh, there's this line of play where we talk about like, well, Obama was uh uh elected, so that sort of is a signal that we've we've moved forward in a way and a certain things are behind us, but like life and history is not linear in that way. Um, and so I think the job of the artist is to speak to these things, to highlight these things and to bring them to the forefront so that they're part of the conversation. Because if people don't fight to have things move in the direction that they should, they don't.

[33:14] Eila Mell: Right.

[33:15] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah, sure. So exactly, they're starting to slip, so we can't, you know, we have to keep moving forward and yes, absolutely remind people that this is still a problem. This is still important.

[33:25] Eila Mell: Yeah. And how wonderful that this show is obviously selling well. You guys were just extended. So not only not only do you get the opportunity to have more people come and hear this message, but it also speaks that that people are hearing it and talking about it amongst their peers, that more and more people are then now coming down to the theater to see this show.

[33:46] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah. And I think that's really important to me. But one of the things I remember about doing it in Boston is like because I was doing it away from where I was living. So I was like walking around Boston in the day and like going to coffee shops and cafes and grocery shopping. And I would run into people who had seen the play, and they always wanted to stop and have a conversation. Uh and and some of the things that the people who stopped me shared, um, or the ways that they were impacted, or the things that they were thinking about that they hadn't thought about before, like uh that that is a thing that I am deeply interested and excited to give to people uh who choose to come share space with us.

[34:22] Eila Mell: Let's take a minute to hear a word from our sponsors.

[34:29] McKinley Belcher III: You are so adept at going from one character to another. There's never a second where you're not sure which character you're playing. And both, as you said, they're so different, but they're also both so different from you. I don't see either character in you as just McKinley, but I'm they both come from you. So do you approach them in different ways?

[34:50] McKinley Belcher III: I do. I feel like whenever I start a project, uh I think a lot about who I'm playing in terms of what are the things off the bat that are very familiar to me. What parts of me live in them, and then what are the parts of me that I have to build a bridge to figure out how do I live in this part of them, honestly? Uh and to me, sort of having that conversation with myself, it just fills out a whole person. And I truly believe that, like even if I was playing three people in the play, that if I was really clear about the body and the heart of the person, it will always be very easy to switch no matter how quickly or in close succession they asked me to switch. If I'm clear, it will, it can be instant.

If I'm not clear, it will be very muddy and confusing. But there are just some really distinct things about the men that Ken has written. And some things that I I've wanted to bring to them, I should say this that uh when we did the play in 2017 in Boston, um, I watched this documentary called Call Me Cool Choo, among many others, but that one was one that really is sort of uh struck my interest. And I live I I watched it over, I like probably watched it a hundred or so times, just listening to the accent and letting some things wash over me and sort of understanding or trying to understand a culture that is not my own.

[36:13] McKinley Belcher III: And since then, this is the joy of getting to do the play again. I've become friends with one of the guys that was in the documentary. And he has since moved from Uganda as a refugee to Boston. So before we started this current production, I flew I flew up to Boston, or I took the train up to Boston and had dinner with him. And then we stayed up till like four o'clock in the morning, sort of like just chatting and as he would say, having a key. But I'm so grateful for that because A, I got to hear a native Ugandan say some of the things that I have to say. But even more important than hearing the lines, I got to sort of have a one-on-one about what his experience was, like some of the friends that he lost, some of the things that he that he carries with him, what it's been like to sort of be stateside, and probably many things that I'm not even remembering in this moment, but it makes the journey as Nicholas for me far more personal. And it sort of adds some stakes to it, because I feel responsible to honor his journey and some of his friends who are no longer here.

[37:13] Eila Mell: Now, I know you mentioned this growth between production to production. And I know when we spoke to Ken, he had mentioned that he also evolved the work a little bit from 2017 to now. Were you able to take part and collaborate with him on some of that also? To, you know, where you were able to give some opinion as an actor or or someone that's now embodying these characters to try to help inform how he was writing or retouching the work?

[37:39] McKinley Belcher III: I think so. I mean, I don't I don't think there were any like huge changes uh in the text from the 2017 version. Cause we did a lot of changing in that production, because it was a new play that had never been produced before. But we learned so much in that production that I think the sort of structure of the thing is mostly the same. One of the things I love about Ken is how collaborative he is and how good his ear is in terms of listening, how it's coming out of a human. And so when we got to rehearsal with me and Yuli, the actor playing Jeremy and Ed, he was listening. And so he's making little tweaks here and there. Uh and sometimes he would be check in with us when he's like, Well, how does this feel?

Or if I pull this word out, does this make it clearer for you? And so I love having that kind of conversation. And then the the two things that were sort of substantive in some way is at the end of each. Well, we don't have to acts, but like if you've seen the play, you can kind of sense how there's an ending of a thing and then a beginning of a second half, sort of around the bed. The first of those was uh to give a kind of momentum into Jeremy's sort of breakdown before they have their romantic moment. And that involves sort of interspersing text that was usually a block for each of us. And that's the thing we just workshopped in the room, and then we we figured out uh oh, this works well for sort of launching us into this thing.

[39:00] McKinley Belcher III: And then a similar thing happened. It's interesting. I'm sure I Kim probably wouldn't mind me sharing this. I think he and Sheer, our uh Sherry Milkowski, uh, our director, I think they had gone away and had a conversation about like sort of making something clearer about Jeremy's journey toward the end of the play when he reveals this thing about uh Martin. And when they brought that version of the scene into rehearsal, and this is why we were in tech, so we were like a day or two away from opening. I was like, well, that I see that that this thing you guys have created solves that problem, but it's created like four other ones, specifically for for me, because it was around a moment that is asking actually a lot of me and was already difficult to do, and then in that new version, it became nearly impossible to do.

So literally on the stage, maybe two days before we opened, we workshopped rewriting like a like two pages of the text in a pretty pivotal moment, and then we all ended up with something that we're all really happy and proud of. And to me, that's like the complete spirit of collaboration. Someone who is open to making sure that everybody is able to live in a thing honestly and that he values the voice that we have as actors.

[40:13] Eila Mell: Yeah, you don't always get that. It's really important.

[40:17] McKinley Belcher III: So there are two projects that we have to talk about. So as a law student, were you at all familiar with Death of a Salesman?

[40:26] McKinley Belcher III: I was. Uh I remember in high school, I went to Campbell High School in Smyrna, Georgia. I was in the International Baccalaureate Program. I don't know if you even know what that is.

[40:34] McKinley Belcher III: But all I know is that Eric and Julia Roberts are from Smyrna, Georgia.

[40:38] Eila Mell: Yes.

[40:38] McKinley Belcher III: So we're to the same high school, actually.

[40:40] Eila Mell: Julie Robertson.

[40:43] McKinley Belcher III: I won't bore you with like what that actually is, but it what it did mean is that I read a lot of things that many people read in college and high school. And one of those things was Death of a Salesman. And I remember reading it. I remember being drawn by the character of Biff. But I never thought of it as anything looking or feeling like me. I just remember like there's a speech that he had to his dad, and I was like, oh, I know what that is. I remember I actually photocopied that page out of the script in the house we have in Atlanta. It's in the inside one of the scripts, a photocopied version of it that I had written on. And this is like pre-actor McKinley. And then when I was in grad school, in one of these sort of monologue things, I did that monologue as Biff.

And I was like, well, this is my one chance to do this because I'm never gonna get to do this play. So cut to there's like this Arthur Miller Foundation thing where they're like raising money for education, arts education in New York or something like that. It might have been around the time that I did the first production of The Guide for Homestead, like 2017, 2016, something like that. And Cindy Tolan asked me to be a part of like this two scenes they were gonna do from Death of a Salesman with Lawrence Fishburne, Latin Jackson, Ray Fisher, and me as the family. And they were like sort of doing a non-traditional casting. I was like, well, how cool is that? They're never gonna make a production out of that.

So this is my second chance to give this a go. And I was I was happy in in that sort of those those two scenes. So I was just thrilled. I got to meet like Rebecca Miller, his daughter. I was like, this is awesome. All these fancy people here. And then a couple years later, I got the call that they wanted me to play happy. And I was like dumbfounded. I couldn't believe it. And so there's nothing about that production from beginning to end that didn't feel like a complete and utter gift. To get to be the first person who looks like me to play it on Broadway. The fact that there were young people who came to see our production, and their first time seeing the play, they get to see themselves in the play.

And so it isn't a step removed from them. It is theirs. Like uh that is beautiful and profound in words that I could not even articulate right now. And I got to do it with Chris Davis, who I had done the Royale at Lincoln Center through three or four years before that. Uh it was like this this thing that I just kept giving to me. And I've since become like really close friends with uh Sharon, who was at my wedding. So we're like family, and we experienced this things together that none of us could have ever predicted. But to me, it sort of is a signal that some things artistically, at least in New York, are moving in the right direction, that this production could even exist.

[43:25] Eila Mell: Yes, and that it doesn't matter one bit.

[43:27] McKinley Belcher III: Yeah, what the family looks like. And this is a thing that Rebecca Miller said that she wished her dad could have seen the production because she was like, I know the words have not been changed, but uh, there's so much of the text that she said she heard differently. It felt like a new play to her because she was hearing things that she I mean, she I can't tell you how many productions she's probably seeing in this play. Right. The fact that she was able to hear some of it anew and from a different perspective is a really exciting way to get to share a classic with audiences.

[43:55] Eila Mell: Absolutely, and she's such a great artist herself, so to have that come from her is just such a huge compliment.

[44:02] McKinley Belcher III: It is, yeah. I guess maybe even paved a little bit for because I've heard that similar phrase, that's those similar thoughts about the gypsy version that's out now with all the other that nothing's changed. But because the lens, the storytelling is going through, you know, it you get that interpretation. It's going to be different because you have a different vehicle for it.

[44:23] Eila Mell: Yeah.

[44:24] McKinley Belcher III: I mean, and to me, that's like the uh I know like diversity over the years has become a kind of buzzword, but like to me, that's the beauty of having a kind of diversity in anything, is because it's so important for people to bring the rhythms, the the influences. Like we each come from different places, and we we've been influenced and sort of built and shaped by different things. And so it's exciting to have space for all of those things to live in the creative space. Because they they speak and sing differently. And when you put them all together, it's really beautiful.

[44:56] Eila Mell: Absolutely. And why go see it again? It's been done a thousand times one way.

[45:01] McKinley Belcher III: I don't want to see it the same way over and over.

[45:03] Eila Mell: Agree. So this is my favorite piece that you've done, Eric.

[45:08] McKinley Belcher III: Oh.

[45:09] Eila Mell: So I was saying, I was mentioning Eric to someone, and they said, Oh, yeah, that Benedict Cumberbatch show. I said, I forgot he was in it. And that's the absolute truth. I only remember you because you were so brilliant in that. Your performance is so beautiful. It just it has stayed with me. And that's why I was so happy to go see a guide for the homesick because I knew you were in it.

[45:32] McKinley Belcher III: I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. Bruce is tired of hearing me say that. He's heard it a thousand times. It's really the truth.

[45:39] Bruce Gotlieb: No, everyone, everyone should hear it.

[45:43] Eila Mell: So tell me about that project.

[45:45] McKinley Belcher III: What a crazy seeming story. Yeah, I don't even know where to start. I mean, I guess I could start. I auditioned for it while I was doing Death of a Salesman. Okay. So it is in line with the conversation I have with my team constantly that some of the most important stuff that I get, I get while I'm doing a play. I was yearning for something that allowed me to live in a queer space on camera. And so when I read it, I was like, this is the one. And it will forever be like, I don't think I'll ever forget the experience of doing it because it came at such a pivotal place in my life. We closed Death of a Salesman on a Sunday. I got married on a Tuesday. I was doing table reads for Eric on that Tuesday and Wednesday.

And then Wednesday night, I flew to Budapest to start shooting the day after I got married. My nephew, my sister was having some trouble in Atlanta. So like my nephew came to stay with me and my now husband here in Jersey. And while I was away in Budapest, my sister passed. And so my nephew sort of like has become almost like a son to me. So I was doing this show that is for my character about coming to terms with himself, that it's about mourning in a way. So almost mourning someone who has not left yet. And then over the course of the show, he loses his partner to AIDS, and he's then mourning him because he is no longer there with him. And then he doesn't have the proper channels to mourn because of who he is.

It is not safe for him to disclose that in his everyday life because as a member of the NYPD. So it was this this very strange sort of um, it's not as if everything that he is experiencing, I was experiencing. But I do think the grief I was feeling was informing what I knew to be true for him in some moments, depicted on the show. Uh, I think it also meant that like my husband is from the Bahamas and being queer there is not the easiest thing in the world. And he came out maybe a a year or two before we got married. And so I was sort of a part of his journey with that, and my own journey with that. And so to sort of infuse all of that into uh this man in the 80s who is trying to figure himself out and trying to be okay with himself and also uh be an actor in the change that he wants to see in the world.

It made me think a lot about like um like how people fall through the cracks. And the way I think it truly happens is when people who could do something, who can do something or should do something choose not to. And that's really reflective of my journey with my nephew. Is like if if we had not sort of taken charge of him and sort of make sure he had a way to be okay, his journey would have been far more complicated than it already was. Uh and I say all that to just say that um that what Abby had written um was very alive for me and very important to me. And it wasn't easy to do, um, but it was one of the most gratifying artistic experiences I have ever had. And in the same way that when I did the first production of A Guy for the Homesick, it was the hardest thing that I ever done.

That uh Eric to date is the hardest thing that I've ever done, and it might be the thing I'm most proud of. So it means a lot to me that it resonates with you and that you saw something in it that was worth mentioning because it's bare is like uh knit to my heart. And how wonderful that, you know, we get to use art and we get to use things like this to help as a healing process for our journeys, for our grief, for all of these different things. Even as an audience member, you can see something that resonates with whatever you're going through in life at that moment and helps, you know, kind of bridge that gap or heal you a little bit than you were before you sat down.

[49:46] Eila Mell: Absolutely. I think that's exactly what it's for.

[49:50] McKinley Belcher III: And I love that what I do, it is a way for me to give something to the world and to people who choose to go on the journey with me, but it works reflexively also. It gives me so much. I'm so grateful and thrilled that like my job, I think makes me a better human in the process of doing it. It gives me space to sort of um work out and explore and understand what's happening with people who aren't like me and what's happening with me, uh, and sort of try to create something beautiful out beautiful out of what can sometimes be quite ugly.

[50:23] Eila Mell: How is your nephew doing now?

[50:25] McKinley Belcher III: Uh he's good. Uh he was very behind in school. And last spring, he finished high school. He got his first job, he's working at Chick-fil-A. But they have terrible politics. They've since backed off some of that, but it's a fixture in the South. Uh yeah, he wants to be an animator. So we're in the process of sort of getting his portfolio ready, and he's gonna be applying to school, hopefully, to go to an art school, either in LA, uh Atlanta, or New York.

[50:54] Eila Mell: That's wonderful.

[50:56] McKinley Belcher III: It's been a lot of maturing and growth, and uh it's funny, over two years. I mean, obviously I was in his life before it then, but these last two years have been like a whole different thing. Uh I feel like I've grown a lot and I've watched him mature and grow a lot in two years. It's like 10 years worth of growth in two years.

[51:13] Eila Mell: Yeah, right. Well, every day is way different than popping in here and there as an uncle normally does. So is there anything that you have that you can talk about that's coming after a guide for the homesick?

[51:26] McKinley Belcher III: I do. I mean, I can't talk about things that I'm going to shoot, but I can talk about things that I've shot and that are coming out. Okay, yes, please do. Uh, there's uh a limited series on Netflix where I I've uh kind of made a creative home um called Zero Day. Um that's gonna come out, I believe February 20th. It's a political thriller with like a lot of fancy people, Robert De Niro, Angela Bassett, Jesse Plymans, and a whole bunch of other people and me. Amazing. Had a a really good time shooting it. I've always wanted to do, I'm gonna blank on his name right now. What is his name? He does a lot of walk and talks all the time with uh a bunch of TV shows. And this sh show has been like my version of doing that.

And almost all my scenes were with Robert De Niro. Uh just a lot like that's not gonna happen often in life. So it's uh cool to get to work with uh many legends at the same time. And the irony is my character uh is an attorney. We'll see. Here we come. I also sort of did an indie um independent film that was written and directed by Alan Brown that's based on uh a French film or that's inspired by a French call from called La Piscine. I think we're gonna do the festival circuit with that, and then hopefully it'll be out in theaters. And then I just did a couple guest uh roles on found in Law and Order, Organized Crime that'll be out around the same time.

[52:45] Bruce Gotlieb: Well, then you're a real New York actor once you've done Law and Order.

[52:48] McKinley Belcher III: Oh yeah.

[52:51] Bruce Gotlieb: Everybody does it.

[52:52] McKinley Belcher III: Yep. A staple.

[52:55] Eila Mell: Absolutely. Oh, this was such a joy. Especially, you know, especially just loving you so much and so many things. But it's, you know, Eric. That I hope everyone watches that. That's Netflix, also, isn't it?

[53:08] McKinley Belcher III: It is, yes.

[53:08] Eila Mell: Okay, great. So um plan an afternoon.

[53:12] McKinley Belcher III: Yes.

[53:12] Eila Mell: Turn on your Netflix. You can watch all of it because you won't want to stop watching. We hope that you'll come back when you have a next project. We would love to invite you to come anytime to be on our show with us.

[53:25] McKinley Belcher III: Oh, I would love to. I've so loved talking to you guys. I just love when like stuff like this. And it's just a great conversation. That's what this has been. So thank you.

[53:32] Eila Mell: Oh, thank you. Well, once you're here, you're family, so you let us know what you let us know what you need, and we're happy to keep our listeners informed.

[53:40] McKinley Belcher III: Yes.

[53:41] Eila Mell: So we will post links to a guide for the homesick so people can catch it because it's running through. Do you know what the final date is?

[53:49] McKinley Belcher III: Uh February 2nd.

[53:50] Eila Mell: Okay. So you still have time to see it. So I think you should absolutely try to get there because it's really, really wonderful. And we will see you next time on Behind the Awards.

[54:01] McKinley Belcher III: Cool.

[54:02] Eila Mell: Thank you so much.

[54:02] McKinley Belcher III: Bye bye.

[54:03] Eila Mell: Bye.