This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Kevin David Thomas: Dear friends, we are so sorry about the ads. They are a nightmare in every way, but with your donations, we can get rid of ads someday.

[0:05] Robert W. Schneider: Beautiful, Kevin. Thanks, Rob.

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[1:24] Kevin David Thomas: Thank you.

[1:26] Robert W. Schneider: Hi, I'm Rob Schneider.

[1:27] Kevin David Thomas: And I'm Kevin David Thomas.

[1:28] Robert W. Schneider: And this is Behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter at BroadwayCurtain. And make sure... I'm sorry, we were having so much fun with our guests ahead of time.

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[1:50] Robert W. Schneider: Today's guest has one of the most instantly recognizable voices in musical theater history. Her voice has brought to life not only some of the greatest songs in the American songbook, but has been inspiring countless emerging students of the art for the past 30 years. Her numerous credits on Broadway include They're Playing Our Song, Perfectly Frank, Blues in the Night, Zorba, Ain't Broadway Grand, Chicago, and of course, Jerome Robbins Broadway, for which she won the Tony Award. Plus, her incredible concert and recording career is nothing to scoff at either.

[2:17] Kevin David Thomas: All of her albums are on Apple Music, just so everyone knows. And I will go through all of my favorites at the end, and maybe sing some of them for Debbie.

[2:26] Robert W. Schneider: Of course you will.

[2:27] Kevin David Thomas: I hope so. Tell us what it was like to work with such legends as Jerome Robbins, Marvin Hamlisch, Neil Simon, Anthony Quinn, and what it was like to conga with Bea Arthur. Here is one of our favorite people, Debbie Gravitte.

[2:40] Debbie Gravitte: Hi, Debbie.

[2:41] Debbie Gravitte: Hi.

[2:41] Kevin David Thomas: Welcome.

[2:42] Robert W. Schneider: We are so happy to have you.

[2:44] Debbie Gravitte: That's my voice of the last 30 years.

[2:48] Kevin David Thomas: I have... I'm just going to tell you this right now, and I've never told you this. When I was teaching, a lot of times somebody would come and sing to me, sing for me, and I'd be like, no, you have to sing it like Debbie Gravitte. I mean, and with that amount of vitriol too, I was so angry that they weren't... No matter what the song was, I'm like, why don't you sing it like Debbie Gravitte?

[3:08] Debbie Gravitte: So I am obsessed with your voice. Your voice is actually my favorite voice in musical theater, period. And I swear to God, and I'm not saying that just because you're here.

[3:17] Debbie Gravitte: I really didn't know that.

[3:18] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. I know them all. So there you go. Who's next week's guest? Will she be the new favorite voice of Behind the Curtain? Tune in.

[3:27] Debbie Gravitte: Oh my gosh.

[3:29] Kevin David Thomas: Okay. So I have to ask you, Conga-ing with Bea Arthur, how does... It's all over YouTube. How does this come about?

[3:36] Debbie Gravitte: So I was on tour with Jerome Robbins Broadway, and we were in Japan. We were in Japan for like, I don't know, 16 weeks or something like that. I think it was 11 weeks. And in between there, my husband came to visit me. And guess what happened? I got pregnant.

[4:01] Kevin David Thomas: Hey-oh.

[4:02] Debbie Gravitte: Hey-oh. So in the meantime, I got this call to do this PBS special, a Leonard Bernstein special. And I literally had to go home. I had to come back to do the special. It was beginning two days before the end of the Japanese tour. And they said, it's with Bea Arthur, and Susan Stroman is directing it, and John Williams is conducting the Boston Pops. And I went, okay, I'll do that.

[4:35] Debbie Gravitte: And it was Howard McGillin, and Jason Graw, and George Jaworski, and Bea Arthur. And she was fascinating. And if we had another three hours, I would tell you some really interesting stories. Like the cab ride when we were after the dinner that she didn't... Oh, do I talk about this?

[5:00] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, tell us.

[5:01] Debbie Gravitte: So she didn't drink. It's not really a story. It's just something that sort of happened, and it was strangely odd. And she didn't drink the entire week. And maybe she rest in peace. She had like a little bit of a drinking thing. So after the show, we went out for a big dinner. Yes. And she might have had a couple drinks. A couple too many double vodkas.

[5:24] Debbie Gravitte: So we drove back together in a taxi, either to the airport or back to the hotel. And after a few minutes, we were speaking, and then somehow oysters came up, where she said to me, well, I can't do her voice. I cannot get that low. I can get pretty up. It was like, you know, well, a lot of people like oysters. I happen to like oysters. And I went, are we talking about oysters? Are we talking about something else? And it was really bizarre. And then I went, good night, Bea. Thank you. I'm here all week. Good night.

[6:03] Kevin David Thomas: Good night.

[6:04] Debbie Gravitte: Wow. I think that's a great story. I'm happy you shared that. Now we're going to jump all the way back. Where'd you grow up?

[6:10] Debbie Gravitte: I grew up in Los Angeles, California.

[6:14] Kevin David Thomas: Me too.

[6:15] Debbie Gravitte: You did?

[6:16] Kevin David Thomas: Thousand Oaks.

[6:16] Debbie Gravitte: Oh my God. Yeah. Oh, no, we did talk about it because of your phone number.

[6:20] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[6:20] Debbie Gravitte: Because I recognized it. Whereabouts in Los Angeles?

[6:22] Debbie Gravitte: West LA.

[6:23] Kevin David Thomas: West LA.

[6:24] Debbie Gravitte: West LA. Yeah. I went to Hamilton High School. And I mean, the condensed version is that I was just always obsessed with the theater, even though I was in Hollywood.

[6:39] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, how did it start?

[6:42] Debbie Gravitte: Well, they had this thing, and maybe you remember, I'm sure I'm older than you. They had a thing where they would show a movie every day of the week. And this is back in the Mesozoic era when they were like seven stations. And they would show, so they'd show a musical over and over. And I remember Damn Yankees and just falling in love with Gwen Verdon.

[7:09] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[7:09] Debbie Gravitte: Just like, it just...

[7:12] Kevin David Thomas: It's always Gwen Verdon.

[7:12] Debbie Gravitte: It's Gwen Verdon in everybody's story. Harvey Evans, the great dancer.

[7:16] Kevin David Thomas: Of course, I know Harvey.

[7:18] Debbie Gravitte: I mean, he was like, I was obsessed with her. And my first audition was Damn Yankees, and he booked it. And he booked her working with her when he was 18.

[7:24] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God, yeah.

[7:25] Debbie Gravitte: But these people, she was this iconic, incredible, charismatic dancer that everyone was obsessed with.

[7:30] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, and just great, human.

[7:31] Debbie Gravitte: And you wanted to be her?

[7:33] Debbie Gravitte: No, you know, it's funny. It's not like, oh, I want to be Gwen Verdon. Not really, because I knew I was so different. I just knew I wanted to be a Broadway star.

[7:45] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[7:45] Debbie Gravitte: I just, I really knew that. And so I did start, I remember Grease came through and the casting director, oh my God, Vinnie Liff.

[7:56] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, oh yeah.

[7:58] Debbie Gravitte: Vinnie Liff and I auditioned for, and he said, you need to go to New York. And I was like, but did I get the show? No, of course, obviously I didn't. But so I got into, I mean, my first professional thing was in the New Christy minstrels.

[8:16] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[8:17] Debbie Gravitte: This land is your land. This land is my land.

[8:19] Kevin David Thomas: She's playing the guitar.

[8:21] Debbie Gravitte: I'm actually playing the...

[8:23] Kevin David Thomas: And the tambourine.

[8:23] Debbie Gravitte: Tambourine. So that was my first thing. And anyway, then I got LA Civic Light Opera was there and Gower Champion directed Annie Get Your Gun, starring Debbie Reynolds and Harve Presnell. And some really great people were in that, I mean, besides Debbie and Harve.

[8:50] Debbie Gravitte: And so anyway, I was cast in the chorus, but so Gower Champion, he championed me. He gave me a big, it was like Laurie Beechman feature. Oh, when you said that, I got scared for a minute when you said he championed you, then I was like, does that mean something else?

[9:09] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[9:09] Debbie Gravitte: Okay, sorry. He was, he didn't know what to do with me, but I came out and sang. And actually there was a pretty funny story that happened because at one point, so there's the character, oh my God, it was B.B. Osterwald. Is it Dolly? Dolly is like her assistant. So I became Dolly's assistant. And at one point, Debbie Reynolds said to Gower Champion, I don't want her on stage when I'm on stage because I pulled a lot of attention. What did I know? I was just like, hi, how old were you?

[9:49] Debbie Gravitte: 19.

[9:49] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God.

[9:51] Debbie Gravitte: And I'm sorry, am I screaming?

[9:52] Kevin David Thomas: No, no, no, no.

[9:53] Debbie Gravitte: And so that's what I remember. And I was trying to find it when Debbie passed away, you know, the day before Carrie, right? Or whatever. There was this great picture of she and I in one of the numbers, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, but she was amazing.

[10:09] Kevin David Thomas: She was amazing.

[10:10] Debbie Gravitte: She just didn't want me on stage with her. But it seems like you learned a lot from even at that age, learning about the business.

[10:16] Debbie Gravitte: Oh my God. And I'm a legend like that. After the shows, Debbie Reynolds would like have a sit at her feet and she would regale us with tales of Tallulah and Hollywood. We were just all like gazing up at her. And, you know, she was Debbie Reynolds. So then after this thing with Annie Get Your Gun, which if I remember correctly, was supposed to move to Broadway. Was there a rumor?

[10:37] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[10:38] Debbie Gravitte: Oh my God. You know this. You are so behind the curtain. You are, Rob. You are behind the curtain. I'm proud of us.

[10:44] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[10:45] Debbie Gravitte: So, you know, directed by Gower Champion. The associate choreographer was a man named Tony Stevens, which I'll get to in one second. And the musical director was Jack Lee.

[10:56] Kevin David Thomas: My mentor.

[10:56] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. So Debbie had just done her act at, I think, the Minskoff and she got slammed. And so she was gun-shy. And Annie Get Your Gun. But she was really gun-shy about it. And it was fantastic. I mean, it was Gower Champion. Who was brilliant.

[11:37] Debbie Gravitte: So then Tony Stevens and Jack Lee were doing this new show called Spotlight. Have you heard about that one? With Gene Barry?

[11:49] Kevin David Thomas: With Gene Barry.

[11:50] Debbie Gravitte: And David hyphen hyphen, David James Carroll. I called him David hyphen hyphen.

[11:57] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I love it.

[11:59] Debbie Gravitte: We love talking about him on this podcast. Well, he was a huge champion of mine.

[12:03] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[12:04] Debbie Gravitte: So Gower Champion was a champion. And champion is a big word. So in fact, that does come into play in a second. So they said to me, will you come back to New York and audition, wink, wink for this show? Which I didn't even know what that meant. So of course, I got it. I got in the show. And of course, I thought, I'm going to be on Broadway. And of course, it closed out of town at the National in Washington. And I just remember when they told the company, and I remember Gene Barry's wife, like, just like, burying her hands. I've had a couple of those moments with people in shows that closed, the spouses, the head in the hands.

[12:49] Debbie Gravitte: And the interesting thing about that one was Lenora Nemitz was in it, who's this amazing talent. And it's the story that everybody has wherever we came from, even coming from Los Angeles. I was Miss Thing in my high school. And in the year and a little bit that I went to college, I went to LA City College and Theater Academy. But they were like, OK, and you're going to cover Lenora Nemitz. And I was like, oh, OK. And it was the first time I sort of danced. People thought I danced, sort of a dancer. My kids always make fun of me now, but whatever.

[13:38] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, that's great.

[13:38] Debbie Gravitte: That's what kids do, though.

[13:39] Kevin David Thomas: That's what they do.

[13:40] Debbie Gravitte: But she was a dancer. And I was like, oh, I really have to dance. So anyway, that was just learning about the unbelievable talented people in the universe. And that's where I met David James Carroll. And actually, he was friends. Oh my God. Robert, who directed They're Playing Our Song.

[14:06] Kevin David Thomas: Robert Moore.

[14:07] Debbie Gravitte: Wow. Do I need to even be here? I know. Like, you know everything.

[14:41] Debbie Gravitte: But this brilliant dancer who, like, we went to his beautiful house in Sherman Oaks. Oh, my God, it was incredible. And he did a bar every day. And I was like... Anyway, that's a whole other story. But he introduced me to my agent. And I've had two agents my entire career. So he set me up, and I auditioned for this man. This man's name was Bruce Savan. He worked at APA, Agency for the Performing Arts. I came in and I auditioned for him. I think I sang a couple songs. And I don't know. I did a monologue. I'm sure I was singing like, I'm still here. Because at 19, that was a big number for me. And I'm not kidding.

[15:30] Kevin David Thomas: No, you're not. That's why I love it. Oh, my gosh. Of course you did.

[15:34] Debbie Gravitte: So I sang and he took me on. And he said, Look, it's gonna take some time. So you have to be patient. And because he was right. I wasn't an ingenue. I was never an ingenue. I was sort of what I am now, but 20 years old, or 21, or maybe 22 by then. Anyway, and sure enough, I had moved to New York. And I don't know, seven months later, or nine months later, I guess it was nine months later, I auditioned for They're Playing Our Song. And David, hyphen, hyphen, had told Robert Moore about me. Now, did I get the show because of him? It certainly helped. It certainly helped.

[16:29] Kevin David Thomas: Relationships do, sure.

[16:30] Debbie Gravitte: They absolutely do. Context like, Oh, I know this girl's normal, and she's cool. Yeah, it was for the chorus.

[16:36] Kevin David Thomas: Your talent still gets it.

[16:37] Debbie Gravitte: But the coolest story about that was, so I danced, I did the whole thing. And I don't even know if they had us read anything, even though I did end up covering Lucy, which is another four hour conversation. And then they had me sing for Marvin. And I ended up, after that, doing concerts with Marvin Hamlisch. And he always said, Tell the story, tell the story, tell the story. So I auditioned for They're Playing Our Song. And here is what I sang. And Marvin Hamlisch was sitting in the audience. Here's what I sang.

[17:18] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[17:19] Debbie Gravitte: Ain't got no trouble in my life. No foolish dreams to make me cry. I got the music in me. I got the music in me. Stop. And Marvin Hamlisch said, Stop. Anybody who sings that song is in my show. And I got They're Playing Our Song.

[17:38] Kevin David Thomas: Wow.

[17:39] Debbie Gravitte: That was craziest audition story.

[17:43] Kevin David Thomas: I'm picturing you in a Broadway theater, probably, while they're happening. Of course.

[17:46] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. I don't know what theater we were in, but yeah.

[17:48] Kevin David Thomas: That's really cool.

[17:50] Debbie Gravitte: Tell the story, tell the story.

[17:51] Kevin David Thomas: Stop, stop.

[17:51] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah.

[17:52] Kevin David Thomas: And a good song choice as well, I would say.

[17:54] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you. Thank you. Nice up-tempo. All you kids, you should look that up. I have no idea who sang that.

[17:59] Kevin David Thomas: Okay. So now you're doing your first Broadway show.

[18:01] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah.

[18:02] Kevin David Thomas: What is this process like? Neil Simon, Marvin Hamlisch.

[18:05] Debbie Gravitte: Carol Baer-Sager. Manny Azenberg, who I would end up, yeah, who I would work with other times. It was glorious because it was a time when, I mean, Neil Simon was at the apex of his career. And Marvin Hamlisch and Carol Baer-Sager, huge hit makers and money. I mean, it was also a small cast. There were eight of us in the show, the two, Robert Klein and Lucy Arnaz in their voices. And there are a million things to say, but one of the great things was that we went out of town to the Amundsen in Los Angeles, where I grew up.

[18:56] Kevin David Thomas: Home, oh wow.

[18:57] Debbie Gravitte: So hello. So that was fantastic. But an example is, there was a whole scene where they are on a 747 together. So of course they had to build a set, this incredible set. And they just went, no, that doesn't work. And you know, oh, you need a different pair of shoes. You need this and dresses and wigs. I mean, it just, nothing mattered. I mean, it was my first show, so I knew really nothing. But subsequently, I've done a few shows now and it doesn't happen that way. It just doesn't. There's much more, the stakes are different.

[19:40] Kevin David Thomas: What makes it different between now and then?

[19:44] Debbie Gravitte: The monetary stakes. When you're talking about $12 million now, as opposed to, it was probably capitalized at a half a million. I don't even know. I'm gonna have to somehow look that up. Behind the curtain. I don't know, but it was just a very, very different situation. And I felt so a part of it. I didn't know that I was in the chorus. I didn't think I was.

[20:12] Kevin David Thomas: It sounds like a real ensemble cast as well.

[20:16] Debbie Gravitte: Well, not really. I mean, as far as not what you did in the show, but as far as everyone equal, I mean, everyone worked together.

[20:23] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It was really, it was great.

[20:26] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. And you enjoyed working with Robert Klein and Lucy Arnaz and getting to watch that process?

[20:32] Kevin David Thomas: I did. I did. I mean, I wanted to do it and they had hired standbys for two of them. And oh my gosh, Mimi, Mimi, somebody. Oh my God. She's an actress. You've seen her a million times. And something, she got a show or something and they said, Debbie, do you want to be the cover for Lucy? And I went, yeah. And I just, I had a great, I did rehearse with Robert once, who was a master of comedy.

[21:06] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Let's talk about him because we don't get to talk about him a lot on this podcast.

[21:09] Debbie Gravitte: He was really brilliant. I mean, he was getting high every night after the show. And I think that at the time, I think it's fair to say, I don't want to speak out of school because I know they're good friends now, but I think at the time they, it was not so pretty. Let's talk about the director though, Robert Moore, who is a brilliant, was a brilliant director who left us way too soon. What was it like being in a rehearsal room with him?

[21:39] Debbie Gravitte: Really smart. I mean, now I've worked with Gower Champion, who is brilliant. And now here comes, I'm trying to think in between, but it doesn't matter. And here's Robert Moore. And he just asked so many questions and made it so comfortable and was so integral to fixing the script. I mean, it was a very surreal situation because the show is about a songwriter, a lyricist and a songwriter and their relationship. And based on Marvin Hamlisch and Carol Baer Seger, and there they are writing songs about a lyricist and a songwriter. So it's their story, but it's not their story, but it's their story. And so everybody has to be, I just thought he helped. I'm saying 50 things at once. The thing about Neil Simon to me was he was a brilliant editor of his own stuff. He knew how to edit his own stuff. There were, I'm sure there were 30 bits that were hysterical that he went, it's not appropriate. It doesn't move the story forward. He was brilliant.

[22:59] Kevin David Thomas: You don't meet a lot of artists like that who are willing to be so, I don't want to say carefree with their work, but so, what's the word I'm looking for?

[23:07] Debbie Gravitte: Precious.

[23:08] Kevin David Thomas: Precious. Precious with their work, which is a rarity. Thank you. Thank you for that. I mean, it was an incredible team. I mean, just like it was all the A team, which of course, again, I didn't know. And I've told my kids this, but I remember opening night, I remember it so clearly, the feeling I had afterwards, because all you'd wanted to do is be on Broadway and the feeling of, I was on Broadway. And then this great sort of gaping hole where all that want had been. And I was like, now what do I do with that? And of course, at the time, when everybody comes, you're so ambitious and you're just knocking over everybody in your way. And I'm sure I did that because of course, then years later, people would say to me, do you know what you said to me once? I'm like, oh, please, please. I'm sure I was a horrible person and I'm sorry.

[24:08] Kevin David Thomas: You know, one time you said to me, I'm like, oh God.

[24:12] Debbie Gravitte: Sorry.

[24:13] Kevin David Thomas: Sorry. Yeah. Just blanket sorry.

[24:15] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. Move on. A big sorry apology to the whole industry. Do you remember what your go-to audition song was when you were making the rounds?

[24:23] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[24:23] Debbie Gravitte: Oh, what was it?

[24:25] Debbie Gravitte: It was, is you, is all, is you, ain't my baby.

[24:31] Kevin David Thomas: That's a good one.

[24:32] Debbie Gravitte: That's a really good one. And that's a ballad. You just took that a little slower.

[24:36] Debbie Gravitte: I did it slow and then it went fast time.

[24:39] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my goodness.

[24:40] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. And I've been dying to record it. I loved that song.

[24:43] Kevin David Thomas: Perfectly Frank.

[24:45] Debbie Gravitte: Perfectly Frank was a review of the great Frank Lesser that starred his widow at the time, Joe Sullivan Lesser, and who had been in the original Most Happy Fella. So, which I knew nothing about, you know, I knew guys and dolls and that was it. That was my, and Tony Stevens, who had brought me to New York for Spotlight was choreographing our out of town tryout, which we did at the Geffen Playhouse in LA.

[25:21] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, back to LA.

[25:22] Debbie Gravitte: Back to LA. And it was a review. And when we did it in LA, it was a silly review. It was silly. Kenny Solms did it. Kenny Solms was a sketch writer for the Carol Burnett show, really funny, great man. And so it was, it was, you know, we did The Ladies In Love With You, and I did it with two guys and I was a nun and then I ripped off my nun uniform and I was, you know.

[25:49] Kevin David Thomas: That's funny.

[25:49] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, it was shtick like that. And we did that and they said, we're gonna go to, we're gonna take this to Broadway, but we're basically gonna fire everybody. Kelly Bishop was in it. Pam Myers was in it. And then they said, we're gonna fire a lot of people. So, we came to New York and they also got rid of Tony Stevens, who had introduced me to a little song called Junkman, which became my signature song for a few minutes. And so, we came to New York and Ron Field became the director, the director. And that was a weird introduction for me into a world that I hadn't really been privy to, was the world of Michael Bennett and Ron Field and people starting to get really sick, because this was now 1980.

[26:55] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[26:57] Debbie Gravitte: It was the beginning of that and doing a lot of drugs. We went to a party, opening night, I'm telling you, I can't believe I'm telling all these stories.

[27:08] Kevin David Thomas: No, we just talked to a guy, a Billy Goldenberg composer, who just told us, I mean, literally today, a lot of Michael Bennett stuff that we were like...

[27:14] Debbie Gravitte: So, we went to a party at Ron Field's house and Michael was there. And it's like, Michael Bennett, oh my God. And they came out of the bathroom together, clearly done a bunch of coke or something. And they surrounded me, literally, I can still remember the feeling of Michael Bennett and Ron Field. And Ron says to Michael, Debbie, Michael, Debbie stopped the show tonight with her song, Junkman, because it stopped the show.

[27:50] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Oh, yes.

[27:51] Debbie Gravitte: And the first night until he changed it, really weird. But anyway, and I remember Michael Bennett saying to me, oh, you're gonna be a big star now. And it was like the creepiest feeling I'd ever had because I didn't know what they were doing, really. I mean, I'm sure somewhere I figured it out. But it wasn't a nice feeling. It wasn't like, wow, I guess you're gonna...

[28:18] Kevin David Thomas: Thanks.

[28:19] Debbie Gravitte: You're on your way. It wasn't that at all. It was icky. It was icky. It was sad.

[28:26] Kevin David Thomas: That is a different world.

[28:27] Debbie Gravitte: Different world. Yeah.

[28:29] Kevin David Thomas: It is. Your song, Junkman, though, is pretty much theatrical lore at this point. People say...

[28:36] Debbie Gravitte: No, I'm being serious that people say it was so incredible and sometimes standing ovations at the end of the number during the show, which was a rarity. True?

[28:47] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. Yes.

[28:49] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[28:49] Debbie Gravitte: I mean, I stopped the show the first preview. I was backstage getting ready for the next thing, and they said, you have to come on. I'm like, what do you mean I have to come on? You have to take a bow. They won't stop applauding. And so they brought us out, the people, because it was Don Correa and...

[29:09] Kevin David Thomas: Not Jim.

[29:10] Debbie Gravitte: No. No. Oh my God. That's terrible. I don't know. Oh, no. We can cut. Don't worry. I'll find out right now. It was a big number.

[29:22] Debbie Gravitte: So it was like amazing. And then that night, I want to say Donna, not Wayne, Cilento, that wasn't that number. David Holliday? Nope. David Ruprecht? No, it was a girl. Oh, it was a girl. Yeah. We have an Andra, we have a Jill, we have a Virginia. Virginia. Great. Yeah, Virginia. So I'd stopped. So they went back to get me, and then they brought everybody on, including Virginia, and Don Correa, and myself. And but like I had to go out. I mean, it was unbelievably thrilling.

[29:57] Debbie Gravitte: And the next day we came in, and Ron Field said to me, I'm going to change that number. So Junkman is, Junkman, Junkman, we're mooching around all the time. Da da da da da, da da da da da da da. I've got a job for him. And then I'm going to give that Junkman. He cut the entire beginning of it. So we're going to cut the beginning. I was like, what? Wait, yeah, it stopped the show. People didn't like that. I had another experience about that. I'll tell you in a second. I have another experience about that.

[30:34] Debbie Gravitte: When he did put it back in, it was right before opening night. And on opening night, I did stop the show again. Yes. And my husband was in the audience. We weren't together then. You weren't together yet? No, but he was there. He said, I was there. I was there that night. Oh my gosh. It's really cool. That's cool. And then opening night, and Joe Lesser said to me, read the reviews, read the reviews. It was Wayne Celento. Wayne Celento, of course, now choreographed Wicked. But he was a huge dancer in Don Correa.

[31:11] Debbie Gravitte: And so they were, Debbie, you read the review from The Times. And I was like, OK. And it was like, now, if the show had opened today, it would probably still be running. But at the time, it just was like, you know, it's a review. And you know, everything was compared to Ain't Misbehavin'. And of course, it wasn't Ain't Misbehavin' because that is still and always will be the greatest review ever. But all of a sudden, it gets to me.

[31:41] Debbie Gravitte: And you know, Maeve had discovered a star. And you know, the curly headed. And you know, I have completely curly hair. But they decided that Virginia and I look too much alike. So they said, we're going to give you a perm, which, of course, wrecked my hair for years because I have curly hair. That's a whole other kettle of worms. So anyway, so you know, it was a really great review for me. And then we had to close the show because it just couldn't sell.

[32:11] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, it wasn't going to sell. So that was disappointing.

[32:17] Debbie Gravitte: But you got a Drama Desk nomination?

[32:19] Debbie Gravitte: I did. I got a Drama Desk nomination. Oh, and that's when I auditioned for Private Benjamin. Yeah, that's when I did. Because I remember Goldie was waiting for me. I never made it down to see Goldie, stupid. Because I was surrounded by well-wishers. And also, like that night, oh my god, that night, I just remember this. They said, hey, you know, do you want to do the bus and truck of They're Playing Our Song? I was like, no, I'm not going to do a bus and truck. I'm going to be a big star.

[32:54] Debbie Gravitte: The New York Times said, I'm going to be a big star now. For our listeners, and we'll post this, there is a clip of Debbie singing Junkman on YouTube from, it looks like. It's a PBS show that Bea Arthur was on and Elaine Stritch, which I'm just going to tell you that really quick story. I went out. I was at the Kennedy Center. And it's me and Elaine Stritch and Bea Arthur all warming up.

[33:23] Debbie Gravitte: And you know, and Stritch is like going, lunch, lunch, lunch, lunch, lunch, lunch, lunch, lunch, because everybody was singing like their big numbers. That was a moment to remember with her swingy dingys and her white shirt and tights. And still then, even then, yeah. Did you want to do film and television?

[33:45] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, I mean, of course, now I wish I had really pursued that. It's just I always felt that Broadway was my meal ticket to film and TV, which does happen. And I'm jumping around, but when I won the Tony Award, my speech was cute. And some network wanted me to come out to LA, and they set up a big meeting to try to create a show for me. But I was so like, uh-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. I was hoping I was just going to get another big show.

[34:21] Kevin David Thomas: So what happens after Perfectly Frank? What's next for you after that?

[34:24] Debbie Gravitte: So after Perfectly Frank is actually was sort of the in-between times began, where I started doing my act. Let's talk about that. Because acts were more prevalent. They existed all the time in the early 80s. And that's when I did Les Mouches.

[34:37] Kevin David Thomas: Tell us, tell us, and tell our listeners what Les Mouches was.

[34:42] Debbie Gravitte: So Les Mouches was like on 11th and 26th. Oh, wow, way over there. Yeah. And it was a giant venue that, you know, isn't Les Mouches? Yeah, anyway. And I think, I'm pretty sure Patti LuPone had done it, and I went to do it. And I insisted on using a 14-piece big band.

[35:09] Debbie Gravitte: And I got this little guy to be my musical director named Mark Shaman. And he was always, I know, what a disappointment he's become. And I used a big band. And it was, I had backup singers and dancers. And like, I just went for it. Full production, yeah. It was a full production.

[35:31] Debbie Gravitte: And I was just telling somebody this story. Oh, my god, I hope I wasn't telling you the story. Oh, no, I was telling somebody else the story. People Magazine came to cover it. It's because Mary Tyler Moore was there, and I guess she was a big deal at the time. I don't know. But there's a picture in People Magazine where literally you see my arm. Mary Tyler Moore is holding somebody's arm, and it's my arm. I was like, yeah, I'm in People Magazine. Debbie Shapiro on People Magazine.

[36:05] Kevin David Thomas: So you started doing your act.

[36:08] Debbie Gravitte: That's when a solo cabaret performance started for you. Yeah, because that seemed to be like, you do a show, and then you fill it in with your act. And then from that, people would ask you to do, well, they'd see you, and then you'd book private things. So it kept you going. It was great.

[36:27] Kevin David Thomas: But you're still in the business.

[36:29] Debbie Gravitte: Sort of in between. I feel so lucky I never had to do anything else. Blues in the Night.

[36:38] Debbie Gravitte: Blues in the Night. So I had sung Junkman, where I was this white girl singing really a black girl song. And they were doing this show called Blues in the Night. Oh, Blues in the Night was before Zorba.

[36:56] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, it was before Zorba. Right before I did, too. So I auditioned for, I remember I auditioned for the Weisslers. And I'm pretty positive I sang Junkman. And I got cast as the white girl in the show. And they invited me. I remember Fran Weissler calling me up, Debbie, we'd like to invite you to be in Blues in the Night. And I was like, oh, this is so exciting. Call my agent.

[37:26] Debbie Gravitte: And who, by then, I had my second agent of my career, who I'm still with, David Kalodner, who is the greatest agent ever. That's incredible.

[37:36] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. And so they invited me to stay for auditions or something. It was something weird. And this woman walked in. And she sang. And her name was Ruth Brown. And this was a song called Blues in the Night, which was a review of all blues songs. And this woman sang the blues.

[38:11] Debbie Gravitte: And it was something to behold. Now, she went on to win a Tony Award the same year I won the Tony Award, which was pure justice. Because she was having knee problems. And Ruth Brown, if you don't know her story, was a huge, huge, she was a big star in the 50s or something. I did not know her at all. Of course, it was before my time.

[38:35] Debbie Gravitte: And I remember one time, so she got it. And we were in rehearsal. And I was young and stupid. And I started asking her questions. And this woman had to clean houses to make a living for a while. Anyway, she had horrible knee problems. And they fired her, fired her. And this woman lit up the stage like nothing I'd ever seen in my life.

[39:09] Debbie Gravitte: So it was Leslie Uggams and Ruth Brown and myself. And then they fired her. The producers, I don't think I'm speaking out of school at all. That was my first lesson in how to be a bad producer. They completely produced it incorrectly. And that was the second time I saw the spouse, Leslie Uggams' husband, holding the hands, holding head and hands when they said we're going to have to close.

[39:39] Debbie Gravitte: Because I remember at the time, they said, look, we have enough money to run the show or do some TV. But we're going to run the show because we think word of mouth is really going to sell it. And I went, uh, uh, uh, uh, you know, it wasn't for me to say a bad idea, but just a terrible idea, terrible. And so the show closed.

[40:03] Kevin David Thomas: Show closed.

[40:04] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. And then they also produced Zorba, is that right?

[40:08] Debbie Gravitte: They produced Zorba. Yes, they did. Oh, my god, yes. Wow. So, oh, my god, I've done three shows with the Weisslers. I mean, you should get an award for that as well.

[40:17] Kevin David Thomas: I should, the semiannual, yes.

[40:22] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, I auditioned for that. Wow, I don't remember auditioning for it, to be honest with you. But yeah, I got that. And now you get to work with Kander and Ebb.

[40:34] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, Kander and Ebb, oh, my god. And Anthony Quinn, and Robert Westenberg, and Lila Kudrova. And Rob Marshall was in the cast, who, of course, was Robby to me. And in fact, years later, I see him in New York, and I'm like, hey, Robby, I just read about some guy who has your name. He's starting to direct. He said, Debbie, that's me. I'm directing.

[41:05] Debbie Gravitte: So anyway, Robby Marshall. That's cute. Tim Flavin, who ended up moving to London and became a big London star.

[41:16] Kevin David Thomas: So Anthony Quinn, what's it like working with Anthony Quinn?

[41:21] Debbie Gravitte: Anthony Quinn, he was like nobody I'd ever worked with or ever worked with since. Really, he was a huge star to people, to some people. He wasn't Greek in any way. People seemed to think he was Greek. He was Irish or Mexican.

[41:39] Debbie Gravitte: So here's a little story about Anthony Quinn. He had an enormous, enormous ego, just like he had a two-room dressing room. One was for his ego. And God bless him. He was great. He was great. And he delivered the goods every night. Brilliant actor.

[42:05] Debbie Gravitte: So I'm going to tell you two things about him. The first one has to do with, so he taught Robert Westenberg and myself how to play racquetball. Because we were on tour for it. We went on tour for nine months, and then we came back to Broadway. And I did it for another nine months, and then I left. And so did Robert. And so we would play racquetball, the three of us.

[42:33] Debbie Gravitte: And all of a sudden, I started getting good. I was jock when I was a young girl and played a little tennis. And so I became pretty good.

[42:46] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[42:48] Debbie Gravitte: Anthony didn't want to play racquetball with me anymore. So that was the first thing. So I had to stop playing racquetball with him because he didn't like that.

[42:55] Debbie Gravitte: But the story was, one night, so there was the number, life is what you do. And Zorba comes in, and here comes Zorba, for his big entrance. You know, applaud and applause. So this one night, Anthony Quinn comes out. He looks straight out the audience, and he goes completely up, as up, as up as you can go. He clearly, he just, and I think at the time, he was 76.

[43:39] Debbie Gravitte: I mean, he wasn't any spring chicken. He was in amazing shape. I mean, he played racquetball. I mean, he was in great shape. But all of a sudden now, he goes completely up. He runs off the stage. They bring in the curtain, bring in the curtain. We're all like, oh my god, he had a stroke. The show is going to close. Of course, we're not worried about him having a stroke. We're worried about we're all going to lose our jobs. The show's going to close.

[44:02] Debbie Gravitte: I started my career in musical theatre with "Annie Get Your Gun" directed by Gower Champion, and that was a pivotal moment for me.

[44:32] Debbie Gravitte: From there, I went on to do "Perfectly Frank," which was a tribute to Frank Loesser, and that really opened up a lot of doors for me.

[45:02] Debbie Gravitte: I had the opportunity to work on "Zorba," which was such a beautiful experience. The music was incredible, and the cast was just phenomenal.

[45:32] Debbie Gravitte: Then, I did "Swing," which was a celebration of the big band era, and it was such a joy to perform in that show.

[45:43] Debbie Gravitte: I also had the honor of being part of "Jerome Robbins' Broadway," which ultimately won me the Tony Award.

[45:53] Debbie Gravitte: It was an incredible experience to work with Jerome Robbins himself, who was such a genius in the world of dance and theatre.

[46:04] Debbie Gravitte: I remember one moment during rehearsals when he gave me a note that completely changed the way I approached my character.

[46:14] Debbie Gravitte: After that, I was in "They're Playing Our Song," which was a delightful show that really showcased my comedic timing.

[46:25] Debbie Gravitte: Throughout my career, I've had the chance to work with so many amazing talents, including Debbie Reynolds, who was such a force of nature.

[46:35] Debbie Gravitte: I also had the pleasure of working with Ruth Brown, who was an incredible singer and performer.

[46:46] Debbie Gravitte: And let's not forget Stephen Schwartz, who wrote some of the most memorable songs in musical theatre.

[46:56] Debbie Gravitte: I remember working on "Golden Rainbow," where I filled Eydie Gorme's shoes for the 50th Anniversary concert, and it was such an honor.

[47:07] Debbie Gravitte: The audience was so receptive, and it felt like a real celebration of the show's legacy.

[47:17] Debbie Gravitte: I also had a memorable experience with Anthony Quinn, who had a way of captivating the audience and making them forgive him for anything.

[47:28] Debbie Gravitte: Working for Jerome Robbins was both thrilling and intimidating, but he had such a unique vision for every production.

[47:38] Debbie Gravitte: I remember one time he asked me to do something completely out of my comfort zone, and it ended up being one of my favorite moments on stage.

[47:49] Debbie Gravitte: And then there was Bea Arthur, who had this quirky love for oysters that I found quite unsettling at times!

[47:59] Debbie Gravitte: But she was such a talented performer, and I learned so much from her about being bold on stage.

[48:10] Debbie Gravitte: My journey through musical theatre has been filled with incredible experiences and unforgettable people.

[48:20] Debbie Gravitte: I feel so fortunate to have had the chance to work with legends and to be part of this vibrant community.

[48:31] Debbie Gravitte: It's amazing to look back and see how far I've come and the impact that these experiences have had on my life.

[48:41] Debbie Gravitte: I truly believe that every role I've played has shaped me into the performer I am today.

[48:52] Debbie Gravitte: And I can't wait to see what the future holds for me in this ever-evolving world of musical theatre.

[49:02] Debbie Gravitte: I hope to continue sharing my passion for the stage and inspiring the next generation of performers.

[49:13] Debbie Gravitte: It's all about the love of the craft and the joy of storytelling through music and performance.

[49:23] Debbie Gravitte: I cherish every moment I've spent on stage and the connections I've made with audiences.

[49:34] Debbie Gravitte: The magic of live theatre is something that can't be replicated, and I feel so lucky to be a part of it.

[49:44] Debbie Gravitte: I look forward to many more years of performing and sharing my love for musical theatre with everyone.

[49:55] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for having me here today to share my journey and experiences in this incredible world.

[50:05] Debbie Gravitte: It's been a pleasure to reflect on my career and the amazing people I've worked with along the way.

[50:16] Debbie Gravitte: I hope to inspire others to pursue their dreams in the arts, just as I have.

[50:26] Debbie Gravitte: The journey is just as important as the destination, and I can't wait to see where it takes me next.

[50:37] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you all at the theatre!

[50:47] Debbie Gravitte: Remember, the show must go on, and I intend to keep performing for as long as I can.

[50:58] Debbie Gravitte: It's the love of the stage that keeps me going, and I can't imagine my life without it.

[51:08] Debbie Gravitte: So, here's to many more performances and unforgettable moments in the world of musical theatre!

[51:19] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you again for this opportunity to share my story.

[51:29] Debbie Gravitte: I hope to continue making magic on stage for years to come.

[51:40] Debbie Gravitte: It's truly a blessing to be able to do what I love every day.

[51:50] Debbie Gravitte: And I look forward to sharing that love with all of you in the future.

[52:01] Debbie Gravitte: Let's keep the spirit of musical theatre alive and thriving!

[52:11] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for being a part of this journey with me.

[52:22] Debbie Gravitte: I appreciate all the support and love from the audience.

[52:32] Debbie Gravitte: It's what keeps us performers motivated and inspired to keep creating.

[52:43] Debbie Gravitte: So, let's celebrate the magic of theatre together!

[52:53] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you, and I can't wait to see you at the next show!

[53:04] Debbie Gravitte: Remember, every performance is a chance to create something special.

[53:14] Debbie Gravitte: And I hope to continue doing just that for many years to come.

[53:25] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for joining me on this journey, and let's keep the love for musical theatre alive!

[53:35] Debbie Gravitte: It's been a pleasure sharing my experiences with you all.

[53:46] Debbie Gravitte: I look forward to what the future holds for me in this beautiful world of performance.

[53:56] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for your time and support!

[54:07] Debbie Gravitte: Let's keep the spirit of Broadway shining bright!

[54:17] Debbie Gravitte: I can't wait to see what comes next in my career.

[54:28] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for being a part of this incredible journey with me.

[54:38] Debbie Gravitte: I appreciate every moment spent on stage and the connections made along the way.

[54:49] Debbie Gravitte: Here's to many more performances and unforgettable experiences!

[54:59] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you all soon!

[55:10] Debbie Gravitte: Let's keep the love for musical theatre alive and thriving!

[55:20] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for being a part of this journey with me.

[55:31] Debbie Gravitte: I appreciate all the support and love from the audience.

[55:41] Debbie Gravitte: It's what keeps us performers motivated and inspired to keep creating.

[55:52] Debbie Gravitte: So, let's celebrate the magic of theatre together!

[56:02] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you, and I can't wait to see you at the next show!

[56:13] Debbie Gravitte: Remember, every performance is a chance to create something special.

[56:23] Debbie Gravitte: And I hope to continue doing just that for many years to come.

[56:34] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for joining me on this journey, and let's keep the love for musical theatre alive!

[56:44] Debbie Gravitte: It's been a pleasure sharing my experiences with you all.

[56:55] Debbie Gravitte: I look forward to what the future holds for me in this beautiful world of performance.

[57:05] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for your time and support!

[57:16] Debbie Gravitte: Let's keep the spirit of Broadway shining bright!

[57:26] Debbie Gravitte: I can't wait to see what comes next in my career.

[57:37] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for being a part of this incredible journey with me.

[57:47] Debbie Gravitte: I appreciate every moment spent on stage and the connections made along the way.

[57:58] Debbie Gravitte: Here's to many more performances and unforgettable experiences!

[58:08] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for listening, and I hope to see you all soon!

[58:19] Debbie Gravitte: Let's keep the love for musical theatre alive and thriving!

[58:29] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you for being a part of this journey with me.

[58:43] Debbie Gravitte: Subsequently, Charlotte was nominated for Leading Actress, and there were four people nominated for Best Featured Actress. They were Faith Prince, Jane Lanier, Debbie Shapiro, all from the same show, and Julie, oh my God, cabaret singer, Julie Wilson. Julie Wilson, thank you. Julie Wilson. So, of course, I went, well, we're all going to cancel each other out. So, listen, I honestly was thrilled to be nominated. That's what I had wanted. I thought I was going to be nominated for Perfectly Frank. I mean, I got a Drama Desk nomination. I was hoping to be nominated for Zorba. And so, I was just like, I was thrilled. And I actually was even happier about getting a Hirschfeld, because those were the bomb at the time.

To be in the Friday section of the New York Times with your Hirschfeld, you have made it to the top. But I did not expect to win. I did not expect to win. I absolutely thought that Julie Wilson would win, because we'd all cancel each other out, rightly so. But when I won, it was pretty amazing. What's it like hearing your name getting announced? Who announced your name? Barry Bostwick. Wait, yeah, Barry Bostwick. And the person who handed me my Tony Award was Leslie Uggams, who I had done Blues in the Night with. So, it was really, really, really, really cool. And I remember Christine Ebersole. So, Christine Ebersole and I lived three blocks from each other, and we were having kids at the same time.

And hers, I'm not saying anything out of school, are adopted. And so, she would always come over and ask me for advice, kid advice. And I'm like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. You're asking me? But was she nominated or something? She said, Debbie, Debbie, Debbie, how did you come up with your Tony speech? Because that's the best Tony speech I've ever heard in my life. So, it was fun. What was your Tony speech? I was just adorable. You were just adorable. We'll post it. You'll have to post it. It's pretty cute.

[1:01:10] Kevin David Thomas: Can we talk about your recording career?

[1:01:14] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. What was the first album you did? So, I think I was back in LA, and Bruce Kimmel was doing all these singers. I think he had done Liz Calloway by then, and I don't know who else. I kept going, Bruce, whom I had sung Lesbian Butch Dyke in the First Nudie Musical. Hello, look that one up. That actually has come up on the podcast before, I believe. Lesbian First Nudie, yes, definitely. I trust you. But very briefly, I cannot believe you did it. Yeah, that was me. I was in my minute and a half of college, and I met Bruce Kimmel, and I was not in the movie, but I was on the soundtrack singing Lesbian Butch Dyke. Thank you very much, which I could sing for you. Would you like me to sing it for you right now?

[1:02:00] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, please.

[1:02:00] Debbie Gravitte: Oh, Lesbian Butch Dyke, you can call me what you like, but it's what I am and what I'll always be. Oh, Lesbian Butch Dyke, and that's why they call me Mike, and not Jane or Susan or Penelope. You'll have to just...

[1:02:18] Kevin David Thomas: It's some of Jerome Kern's greatest work.

[1:02:20] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, I feel really special. So, I was hawking Bruce Kimmel about, I wanna do an album, I wanna do an album. He said, we gotta come up with an idea. I said, you know, my husband just worked with this guy named Alan Menken, and he has really great stuff, because my husband had done Kicks.

[1:02:43] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I love Kicks.

[1:02:44] Debbie Gravitte: Kicks. And now... You know it, okay. Kicks was written by Alan Menken and Tom Ion after Dreamgirls. Dreamgirls, yeah. And Bebe Neuwirth was a dancer in it, and everybody was aggravated by her at the time. She aggravated everybody. But hi, Bebe. And yeah, off the record. And anyway, so he had done, well, Newsies, he'd done the movie of Newsies and...

[1:03:18] Kevin David Thomas: Little Shop.

[1:03:19] Debbie Gravitte: He'd done Little Shop and Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. Yeah. And I said, you know, nobody's done Alan Menken, he's amazing. I wanna do this Alan Menken album. And you probably know this already, because we're with Rob Schneider, who knows everything behind the curtains.

[1:03:34] Kevin David Thomas: It's true.

[1:03:37] Debbie Gravitte: The person who did my arrangements was a man, a boy, by the name of David Lawrence, son of Stephen Eady.

[1:03:46] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, wow.

[1:03:47] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. He was a youngster, and I had met him, I don't know, somehow, and I think I'd done a demo for him. I did a lot of demos when I was in LA, because I knew a lot of musicians. And I did a lot of rock and roll demos, which I was so inappropriate for, but that's a whole other discussion. And I was just like, I just wanna go on Broadway. And so I had him, he was my musical director, and I would go up to Alan's house, Alan has a house up in North Salem, I don't think I'm giving anything away, which is actually close to where I live now.

[1:04:25] Kevin David Thomas: Oh.

[1:04:26] Debbie Gravitte: I know. And I would go up, and he would sort of say, what about this song? And I just would look through songs, and I was like, you know, there was that song in Kicks, I wanna be a rock cat. And I said, what about that? And there was another song from Kicks. You are the only one I've ever wanted in my life. Beautiful song. And it was hard to cull all the material. And I think the album actually did pretty well. It did really well.

[1:05:01] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. And once again, it's on Apple Music. I think most of your stuff is on Apple Music.

[1:05:06] Debbie Gravitte: Yes, it is. I think my third CD, which is called Defying Gravity, I'm not sure if that is...

[1:05:12] Kevin David Thomas: That is on there.

[1:05:13] Debbie Gravitte: Oh, it is. Okay. And you were the first person to ever sing that song, is that correct? I read that somewhere.

[1:05:18] Kevin David Thomas: Yes. A rock cat?

[1:05:19] Debbie Gravitte: No, Defying Gravity.

[1:05:20] Kevin David Thomas: Defying Gravity. Yes. Yes. That was because of Stephen Schwartz.

[1:05:24] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. Yes.

[1:05:25] Kevin David Thomas: I'm looking up the albums now.

[1:05:27] Debbie Gravitte: I'm looking it up on Spotify.

[1:05:29] Kevin David Thomas: You keep going. What are we talking about?

[1:05:31] Debbie Gravitte: We're like, yeah, see you later. No, I'm kidding. I'm sorry.

[1:05:33] Kevin David Thomas: Good talking to you.

[1:05:34] Debbie Gravitte: I'm just gonna listen to your albums.

[1:05:35] Kevin David Thomas: Nice phones.

[1:05:36] Debbie Gravitte: No, they're on Spotify now, too. Okay, good. And it's all gonna be like sweet. It's gonna be Debbie being sweet.

[1:05:42] Kevin David Thomas: A quieter side.

[1:05:45] Debbie Gravitte: A little, yeah. A little like, oh, that's really cool. Can we talk about your talented children for a second?

[1:05:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, we can.

[1:05:53] Debbie Gravitte: So you have a son and daughter.

[1:05:55] Debbie Gravitte: I have two sons.

[1:05:56] Kevin David Thomas: I'm sorry, two sons and a daughter.

[1:05:56] Debbie Gravitte: Two sons and a daughter. I have an older son who lives in Charleston. Yeah, beautiful. Who's amazing. The greatest guy. Everybody wants to have a beer with.

[1:06:07] Kevin David Thomas: Oh.

[1:06:07] Debbie Gravitte: And that's why he works in a bar.

[1:06:08] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[1:06:09] Debbie Gravitte: He manages a bar and wants to open a beer garden if you'd like to start sending money his way. Charleston is beautiful.

[1:06:16] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, it's gorgeous.

[1:06:18] Debbie Gravitte: And then I have twins. I have twins. My daughter, Ellie, who is a filmmaker. She's unbelievably talented. She's won laurels and gifts and awards already from things she's done. And she's really something else. She's incredibly talented. She could be doing the Broadway thing, too. She's got a great voice and great actress. But that wasn't her thing. And I was telling somebody about this because she was really... My kids are also really great athletes. And my daughter was... There's sort of like three seasons of sports. So she would play soccer in the fall and then basketball in the winter. And then in the spring, she'd play... Oh, no, she'd do track. She started doing track. So she'd get fast for soccer.

And one day, there was like a stick lying there. And she threw the stick and they said, Oh, you would have won this. Anyway, she ended up being the Northeast javelin champ. So she went to Brown. And the first season there, she broke the record as the freshman throwing the javelin. You know, I really don't want to throw the javelin the rest of my life. I really want to make films. And so she stopped doing that. Anyway, and then her twin, he was also a really big athlete. But he took off the winter and he did the shows at the high school.

[1:08:02] Kevin David Thomas: Atta boy.

[1:08:03] Debbie Gravitte: Where he was the star of the pajama game. My favorite. Because, of course, I did the pajama game after How to Succeed in Witchery. I was in that. Nice, of course. And then, anyway, so he went to Princeton and he played lacrosse, which was his dream. He wanted to play. We were like, but you want to be in the theater. Do you want to go to a conservatory? Nope. I want to go play lacrosse at Princeton. So he got like a drama certificate. His thesis was they put on once. It was the first production outside of New York, like with amateurs, where he made it. And he made it all happen. He's no fool, my son. And it was sort of brilliant. I didn't know the show at the time. Anyway, so anyway, so he moved to New York. They graduated and they both moved to New York. And my son just got, he's in the tour of Wicked now.

[1:09:03] Kevin David Thomas: Hey, congratulations.

[1:09:06] Debbie Gravitte: That's a great family. It's great. It's really special.

[1:09:09] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[1:09:10] Debbie Gravitte: May I do a little shameless self-promotion? You know, we do on September 11th of this year at seven o'clock and nine thirty. Debbie and David Lawrence are going to start in the 50th anniversary concert of Golden Rainbow.

[1:09:25] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[1:09:27] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. You need to see that. I'm wearing a wig, kids. Come on. Don't you want to see that in my Edie wig? Great Steve and Edie goodness. First, I love the score to Golden Rainbow. It is so fun. Yeah. And so many people, this is, I was telling a couple of people before, this is the first time it's ever happened to me at 54, in which we announced the show. I have gotten more emails from industry folk saying, I need to have tickets. I need to have a table. I don't care what I have to pay. Just make sure I get a table.

[1:10:00] Kevin David Thomas: Are you serious?

[1:10:01] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah, because a lot of them, when they first came here, this was the show. They all went to go see. It is, it has come up so many times. You're right. Whether I'm right. There it is. Whether I'm wrong. Poor Edie. She sings all the like, not the hits. Edie sings and sings none of the hits. I'm sure by, you know, month nine, she was like, hold on a minute.

[1:10:20] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[1:10:21] Debbie Gravitte: Well, I can't wait to hear it. I definitely want to.

[1:10:22] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. So please everyone, buy tickets because Dave and Debbie, it's going to be very special. And Richard Kind is in it as well.

[1:10:27] Debbie Gravitte: Yes. Yeah. And Walter Marks, the composer, who's I think 90 something, reached out to me on Facebook and was like, hey, I'm going to come. And I was like, I don't even know how to operate my Facebook. Why are you 90 and you know how to do it? Here you are telling me this?

[1:10:42] Kevin David Thomas: Fantastic.

[1:10:42] Debbie Gravitte: Maybe you can teach me how to do this. It's going to be a lot of fun. This was so much fun today.

[1:10:45] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God.

[1:10:47] Debbie Gravitte: Thank you. I hope I didn't speak too much.

[1:10:49] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God. We have been trying to get this to happen for quite a while. You've been on the top of our list for a while.

[1:10:55] Debbie Gravitte: Oh, thanks. And seriously, you have inspired so many people.

[1:11:01] Kevin David Thomas: God, that makes me feel so good.

[1:11:02] Debbie Gravitte: Yeah. Really. Whether you realize it or not, you really, really have. And so many, the next generation is just in awe of all the recordings that you have done. And I cannot wait to see what's next.

[1:11:12] Debbie Gravitte: Well, thanks. Do you guys like the idea of the songs for my book?

[1:11:15] Kevin David Thomas: I do.

[1:11:16] Debbie Gravitte: Yes.

[1:11:16] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[1:11:17] Debbie Gravitte: You could sing the phone book.

[1:11:18] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[1:11:18] Debbie Gravitte: Oh my God. Thank you.

[1:11:19] Kevin David Thomas: A phone book for our younger listeners.

[1:11:22] Debbie Gravitte: That's right.

[1:11:23] Kevin David Thomas: All right.

[1:11:26] Debbie Gravitte: Bye everybody.

[1:11:29] Kevin David Thomas: Good day, Mr. Thomas.

[1:11:31] Debbie Gravitte: Good day, Mr. Schneider.

[1:11:33] Kevin David Thomas: Well, it has happened. We finally hit over 100 iTunes reviews and would like to thank each and every person who took the time to do so. Huzzah.

[1:11:42] Debbie Gravitte: Now we want to climb those charts even faster.

[1:11:45] Kevin David Thomas: And that is where you lovely folks who have not yet rated us come in. The process is very simple. On your podcast app, tap the search tab. Enter our name behind the curtain, Broadway's Living Legends. Tap the search key. Tap our beautiful logo. Tap the reviews. Tap write a review. Then tap your way into our hearts.

[1:12:05] Debbie Gravitte: Tap your troubles away.

[1:12:06] Kevin David Thomas: It's nice, Rob. Once you are there, you can rate us from one star to five stars. Think of one star as Hervé V...

[1:12:13] Debbie Gravitte: Rob, how do you say this name?

[1:12:14] Kevin David Thomas: Hervé Villachel.

[1:12:16] Debbie Gravitte: Oh dear, I walked right into that one. Think of one star as Hervé Villachel and Ima Sumac in Sideshow and five stars as front row seats to the opening night of Gypsy.

[1:12:25] Debbie Gravitte: But they kicked me.

[1:12:27] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, they kicked me for the third time. I thought that was pretty good.

[1:12:31] Debbie Gravitte: We want to get good reviews, Rob.

[1:12:33] Kevin David Thomas: We want to get good reviews.

[1:12:34] Debbie Gravitte: Excuse me, Arthur Lawrence.

[1:12:36] Kevin David Thomas: Excuse me for trying to liven up our commercial ads a little bit.

[1:12:41] Debbie Gravitte: Eight minute long commercial.

[1:12:43] Kevin David Thomas: It's an infomercial at this point. I'm going to be like that lady that sells you the copper pots. Look at this. You can put 400 pounds of manure in it and it slides right out. Then you can make an omelet.

[1:12:54] Debbie Gravitte: You got another line, Kevin.

[1:12:57] Kevin David Thomas: I'm waiting for you to say, plus you can leave a comment and let us know if you like it and what guests would like to hear next.

[1:13:01] Debbie Gravitte: Plus you can leave a comment to let us know what you are liking, what you're not liking at this point, or what guests you'd like to hear next. So head on over to iTunes and let us know what you think of our little show.

[1:13:12] Kevin David Thomas: Speaking of little, I'll tell you a story about Charles Lawton later. Thanks, guys.