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[0:00] Robert W. Schneider: Hi, I'm Robert W. Schneider.

[0:01] Kevin David Thomas: And I'm Kevin David Thomas.

[0:03] Robert W. Schneider: And this is Behind the Curtain: Broadway's Living Legends.

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[0:16] Robert W. Schneider: Plus, you can always listen to all of our episodes, old and new, on the Broadway Podcast Network, iTunes, and Spotify.

[0:23] Kevin David Thomas: She has been praised, and rightfully so, as one of musical theater's most iconic dancers. Her work on and off the stage, as well as the big screen, has inspired countless artists from all across the world to emulate her style, technique, and most importantly, passion for the craft. Her on-stage credits include Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, Coco, Pippin, Over Here, Goodtime Charley, A Chorus Line, Chicago, that's both the original and the revival, and Dancin. On-screen, audiences have seen her in things like All That Jazz and Annie. And off-screen, she has become one of the most recognized advocates of the Marfan Foundation, and she holds an honorary doctorate from Florida State University. I have never felt more intimidated in my life. So to tell us what it was like to work with such legends as John Kander, Fred Ebb, Bob Fosse, Michael Bennett, Katharine Hepburn, Patty and Maxine Andrews, and so many more, please welcome the Tony Award-winning Ann Reinking.

[1:22] Ann Reinking: And welcome to the program.

[1:23] Robert W. Schneider: Thank you.

[1:24] Ann Reinking: Thank you very much.

[1:25] Kevin David Thomas: We are—when do you sleep?

[1:27] Ann Reinking: My God. I'm tired, but I'm very flattered for the intro, but I'm too exhausted now.

[1:38] Robert W. Schneider: I have to—we go in a little bit of a nonlinear fashion, so I'm just gonna ask you some because I'm so curious. What is it like to do a musical with Katharine Hepburn?

[1:47] Ann Reinking: Oh, extraordinary. First of all, she's very, very hands-on. I think her reputation is actually quite true. She wants to know everything that's happening, why it's happening, so that she can assimilate it for her own performance. I think she was great to work with, especially professionally. She was very professional, very hardworking. And even at that stage in her life, 60-something, she was still incredibly beautiful and dynamic. I think one time she said, because she'd sit down with everybody to chat, you know, one time she said, "You know, I definitely not French, and I'm not, you know, I don't even look really like Coco Chanel, but I want to find a way to get her spirit into my body." She was very open and candid about that.

So that she said, "You know, when I walk through a room, I'm Katharine Hepburn first, and then I'm whatever character I portray." But she was very aware that her persona and her image always was front and center because she's a huge star. And her dilemma, or her challenge, I should say, not dilemma, was to be able to embrace someone else's spirit into the fact that it's Coco Chanel and Katharine Hepburn. How do you put those two together and not abuse either one or neglect either one? So I thought that was a very interesting conundrum because I didn't really think about that. I just thought you would blend in. I was young then, I was 19, so I thought you would just sort of blend in. And that if you're a great actress, you're a great actress.

But everybody—that's where I really understood on every level of theater that everybody has a challenge. Nobody has a free ride. Everybody has it; it doesn't matter. You can go, you could do brilliantly in one show, and then there's another show that is tougher on your abilities, and how do you get from A to Z? You know, starting literally from ground zero. So there aren't any real breaks in this business. You make your own breaks. You need some luck, but you have to have the talent to back up the luck. Everybody needs luck and good fortune. So, you know, I saw that she definitely thought this was a wonderful role to do. She wanted to be on Broadway. She loves musicals, loves them. And the challenge was, how do I make people believe that I'm a French woman that designs clothes in a revolutionary way?

Because she put women in pants, she took the corset away, she created the little black dress, you know, costume jewelry, so anybody could look elegant, the suit that transformed into all business but still feminine. I mean, these are amazing challenges that she did that at the time nobody was without a corset. If you told somebody in 1918 that by the time it was 1920-something, you'd be wearing a dress up to the knees, no undergarments at all, except a teddy, and it would be a backless dress. You know, so that's the gist of it. And I think she realized that she herself was a grandeur in that revolution. She was one of the first to wear slacks. She was a revolutionary; she was a feminist before feminists were feminists. And so I think she saw that the rebel in Coco Chanel was the rebel in Katharine Hepburn, and that's how they went. I love that.

[6:00] Ann Reinking: So, and when I watched her solve that, it's simple when you answer the questions, but the answer can sometimes take a long time to answer. And the simpler it is, the harder it is to see it. That's my—yeah. You know what I mean? It's so simple that you need a genius to fix it, you know.

[6:18] Kevin David Thomas: Now you had mentioned earlier her work ethic. Where do you think you get your work ethic from?

[6:24] Ann Reinking: From people like her, obviously from my teachers and my own family. Because I've been a hard worker, and then some that is, you know, innate. And luckily, I love what I do, even the downside. That, you know, I'm energized anyway, and I want to, you know, just going in, I have energy, and I want to honor our craft because it's unique. And also, when I teach, I tell students, I said, you have to love this as much as a mother loves her child, as much as—and be dedicated. You know, if you're a doctor and a nurse, you are going to lose some patients, but you want to know that you've done everything you can to save that patient, and that's how I feel about theater. You know, you're not going to have everything be a hit, but you want to be able to go to bed at night knowing that you did everything, everything was in your power. And it was getting back to Katharine Hepburn, that was evident the moment she walked in the room.

[7:29] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[7:30] Ann Reinking: She had that kind of respect for her craft and for people. She really was a cool person to meet. Sometimes you meet someone who's in theater and you realize that you get the best of them for the price of the ticket.

[7:44] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, totally.

[7:45] Ann Reinking: Yeah, totally. So when somebody—Julie Andrews is the same person—you are not disappointed; you are inspired by that person, and they just walk in with a good work ethic. So just by osmosis, you know, my work ethic was better just because I was next to them. You can feel them. Same thing with Chita and Gwen. I mean, one time I was standing next to Chita; we were doing "Nowadays" for a benefit, and I said, "You know, there's so much energy coming off of you. I think I'm gonna knock me over." So I had to kind of, you know, buck up to that energy without even starting to sing, you know, or dance. It's contagious. Huge, huge energy coming off of her. And you know, those people are really great friends in every sense of the word because you do come up to them in their energy, and you want to honor that.

And it's a great teaching to be able to go to master classes one way or the other, to where a star is in that room because they all have the same thing. They have a big bunch of energy coming in before they even get across the threshold, and that energy is so important to feel as a student. And I've been lucky in the people who have taught me; they've been great people.

[9:04] Kevin David Thomas: Who was your first dance teacher that you felt had a real big impact on you?

[9:09] Ann Reinking: Definitely the first three. Mary and Lara Laudre. Lara, her maiden name is Obedena, and they were with the original Diego Ballarús de Monte Carlo. She went to school with Balanchine at the Mariinsky.

[9:25] Kevin David Thomas: Oh wow.

[9:26] Ann Reinking: She also went through the revolution and she escaped. So this is huge. So these people valued life.

[9:33] Kevin David Thomas: And the arts.

[9:35] Ann Reinking: And the arts, yes. And I one time I wanted to take a trip down the Amalfi Coast because they described it so beautifully. And I also wanted to go to Monaco because I wanted to see where they lived and where they performed, because one of the things they said is not only were we not as afraid anymore, but we weren't hungry anymore. And you know, as a child, that was—I've just never experienced anybody who actually had that much deprivation in their life.

[10:09] Kevin David Thomas: And were they in Seattle that you met them? Is that where you grew up?

[10:12] Ann Reinking: I mean, they had somehow come over to our country and then gone there and decided Seattle was the place to be, just like Robert Joffrey, who knew how lucky—and lucky for you that you had such wonderful spell teachers are so important, you know, and affecting our lives.

[10:27] Ann Reinking: Yeah, they're crucial. And then they had a marvelous student who was a generation or so ahead of me, and her name was Gwent Barker, and she—between those three and the scholarships that I had with San Francisco Ballet and also with Joffrey, those were the things that made me able to. I just turned 18 and I went to New York, didn't know anybody, and started from scratch. But it was that beginning in my life, plus my parents and my family that really gave me the courage and the self-belief that I could do this. And I just wanted to—I was so in love with it.

[11:11] Kevin David Thomas: Well, clearly you have to. And they must have—it sounds like they were very supportive, your parents, of this journey of you going into the arts.

[11:18] Ann Reinking: My parents were very supportive in the best sense of the word, and I didn't realize it at the time, but I had to earn everything on my own. And I had to go to work; they didn't give me any money, so I went to New York with a round-trip ticket that I had to be able to get back just in case, and you know, yeah, and $500. And as I like to say, my allowance was 50 cents, so I thought I was rich, and of course I was not, but still that's nice that you had that little bit to keep.

[11:52] Kevin David Thomas: How did you know what to—you know?

[11:54] Ann Reinking: Some people, you know, there weren't a lot of musical theater schools in those days. But how did you know what to do? I mean, how did you know the auditioning? And the other follow-up is, did you go wanting to be a ballerino or did you go wanting to be in showbiz, you know, the musical comedy?

[12:09] Ann Reinking: I was really fortunate that I did get the scholarship with Robert Joffrey for many reasons, but the main one amongst many was, you know, when all the classes were done and we were back at the dormitories, and after dinner, we'd all get together outside. It was a summer intensive, and everybody started dancing. So when it was my turn, I just got up and sang, and I like a little doll here, anything. And I was—I had a lot of personality and joke; I like to have fun learning. And so Mr. Joffrey said, "Look, I don't want you to take this in the wrong way. If you want to be a ballet dancer, you can be; you'd have to work hard, but you have to work hard at anything. But I'm not telling you this to discourage you, but knowing your personality and having heard you belt out a song or two, and that you are a very good dancer," he said, "I think you'd be happier on Broadway."

And I was thrilled that he said that because I had no pun intended, one foot in amateur musicals and plays, and another foot in classical ballet, and in those amateur performances. And so when I got my $500 that was ready to go that I had earned, I knew I was directed thanks to Mr. Joffrey. I said, "Okay, I'm going to go into Broadway," and then after that, I went into Fiddler on the Roof, which was a touring company, and then the last two months of Cabaret, because it was by the Hal Prince office.

[13:58] Kevin David Thomas: Right, and these were just—did you go to random open auditions that you just were—Fiddler?

[14:04] Ann Reinking: There were 500 people. I think what was helpful was I was strong in ballet, and a lot of the audition material was ballet because of Robbins.

[14:15] Ann Reinking: And Tommy Abbott was a person who, uh, he was in West Side Story, he was a very big deal at the office, and a very beautiful dancer.

[14:25] Ann Reinking: And so the auditions were ballet, so I had that strength behind me, and so some of us got to stay and see if we could sing, and I could, I could sing. So, um, it's I think that's why the combination of the two. Uh, they didn't, they don't have to take anybody from an open call, but they did take me.

[14:45] Kevin David Thomas: I was just gonna ask what your, what your, uh, what your normal sort of go-to. We love asking our guests this. What was your go-to audition song? Did you have like your uptune that you always sang or your ballad?

[14:55] Ann Reinking: Yeah, I didn't know I was gonna sing, so I told, uh, it was Nelton Green, uh, the musical director. I said, I, I don't have any music, but if you could do "Summertime" in an alto key, um, I'd be glad to sing it. And they could, you know, Sandy Campbell played the piano, she was great. Uh, and, uh, so I sang the first verse, and I'm, I'm just performing the heck out of it. I'm going to the second balcony, the fifth balcony, down. I'm really going for it. And then the, the, the director, the music director said, um, thank you, you know, after, you know, 16 bars, because I didn't know that either. And so I thought he made a mistake. I said, oh no, no, there's more. You know, like an innocent child.

So he goes, oh, okay. And I sang the second verse. Not only did I finish the first, but I went because I thought the second verse was beautiful, you know. Better. Even better. Even better. I think I got there. Uh, that I think I got the job because you got their attention. I endured myself to them, and I was obviously innocent to this whole process, you know.

[16:11] Kevin David Thomas: I love that. Absolutely. I love that. What do you think has been the most challenging project you've ever had to deal with, whether on stage or off stage, but one that really tested your creativity and skill set?

[16:25] Ann Reinking: What it, uh, there was a show called Wild and Wonderful that I did that did not succeed. Yeah, it did not succeed. We had one night and that was it. I didn't have much money. It was, it did not work. Uh, and did you know that even at that age, did you know? Could you tell, uh, that it didn't work or I had a feeling it wouldn't, but you, like I said, you have to, everything is a living entity and you must take it to the best of your ability, but it was a failure. Uh, and failure is hard to deal with, but ironically, and the paradox is success is actually harder. It's, it's just the strangest. Uh, well, if it's a big success, everybody wants you, and you don't know who is genuine, who's not genuine, you know.

Um, who's gonna not like you anymore because you succeeded and they didn't. Yeah, you know, you, you can lose friends, you can lose family members' love if you succeed. You know, there's a lot of, uh, of turmoil, uh, with success, and you can't really, uh, except for your shrink, uh, you can't really complain to anybody about it or talk about it because it doesn't, you know, you sound like you're ungrateful. And, uh, and it's like the phrase is holding a tiger by the tail is exactly what it is. Uh, I, the moment I realized I couldn't control it, so I just said, let go, like let it be. Uh, you know, what is is and, uh, do the serenity prayer and, and, uh, try and stay strong as a person. And, um, and what I can do, I will do what I can't, I'll just hope for the best.

And this is the hard part is the wisdom to know the difference. Uh, that is, that is a big struggle throughout my life, you know, because I just want to fix everything. Uh, there's a whole lot of mother in me, which I think is very good for show business, but it can make me a little neurotic.

[18:36] Kevin David Thomas: It's hard. That's a hard balance.

[18:38] Ann Reinking: Yeah, it's a hard balance, yeah.

[18:40] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[18:41] Ann Reinking: So you have to be aware of it to begin with, and then practice, practice, you know. Tell us a little bit about working with Michael Bennett, um, and a little bit about what you learned, uh, about yourself working through him.

[18:54] Ann Reinking: Oh, I love working with Michael Bennett. He was at one point a very cloaked person, and that's why Bob Adion was a, and I mean that's in the best sense of the world, he was private, and I, you couldn't really read his mind or tell what he was thinking, but Bob Avian was his, uh, associate, and he was excellent. They were an excellent team because Bob was very, um, friendly and open, he was easy to talk to. Um, and, and Michael was so concentrated, you know, in Coco. But I knew he was so talented. And he actually, uh, did do a lot of the directing because the director, Michael, I think his name Benthel became very ill. And, uh, and so Michael started taking over some of the directing. And I could tell right off the bat, you know, he was that good that this man's big talent.

So I just wanted to do the best I could, but I didn't really get to know Michael that much during that time. Um, I, uh, got to know him when I did Cassie. He took me out to dinner, he was very friendly, very nice. Uh, I was at ease. I spoke to him, and, uh, you know, as if he was, you know, my friend, and, uh, he was just gracious and nice, and he was very supportive. I fell down once and I thought I was gonna get fired, and he said, no, it's life theater, this happens, you know. And he was very, very sweet, very nice. Bob Avian was a great human being, and I enjoyed knowing them a lot. And, uh, uh, he, for me, a lot of people seem un, uh, unapproachable when you're real young. And then you find out later that they're really quite approachable.

They're like I said, nobody gets an easy ride, nobody gets a free ride. Uh, I realized early on that my, uh, my duty or the thing I had to do the most was create trust and, and try and keep that man or that woman from not being so nervous that they can't push through something because they're doing it on the spot, you know. So that you've got to create trust, show them that you, you're not judging, that you're gonna, you know, do the best you can for them and for the show. And I think a lot of kids miss that part of the element that if they're, if someone just isn't brilliant right off the bat, you kind of close off or close down on them. You must never do that. You must be the person tooth and nail that creator.

And, uh, I've seen choreographers who don't have as great a technique as someone else, but that they're gonna change the choreographer because they trust that person, the choreography because they trust that person, and, uh, and that person's gonna do their homework and come back better the next day, and that person's supportive.

[22:04] Ann Reinking: Um, everybody gets the same ratio. We all get a glass when we're born, no matter how much money we're born into or not born into. The class is half empty or half full, and, and everybody has that, and it's, it's how you handle how you parley that notion. And, uh, also to say an answer that a child said once, uh, she said, well, why don't you just fill it up? You know, she was talking about half empty, half full. And that was a good question. It's a very good question. So you can fill your glass up or you can, you can drink it down and ruin yourself. So, but everybody starts off with half empty, half full.

[22:44] Ann Reinking: Pippin, how does it come into your orbit? I had followed Bob's career forever. For some reason, I was, you know, I liked the work he did. I, I, I would watch Gwen Verdon on Ed Sullivan or, you know, Dinosaur shows, and these numbers and, and her dancing and her ability was unique. I'd never seen anything like that before, and I felt it was elegant, along with being sensual and witty. There was an elegance to it that I really enjoyed. So here came this, uh, here comes this, uh, opportunity called Pippin, and I am a member of equity, so I'm going to an equity call this time, which is a big difference. It helps.

[23:30] Ann Reinking: Oh, yeah. And, uh, he used, we just started working once we got past the T for Two audition, uh, which had a lot of ballet in it and syncopation, he started. If you watch, uh, All That Jazz, it's a combination to on Broadway. Yeah, but it's T for Two because he would, he's, he took from the vaudeville world so much. Of course, that's where he came from. Yeah, his education was that. So anyway, once you got past that, then we got into, um, a Pippin combination, uh, chore. And there was this, and I had never done isolations. Uh, I had done a little, I had done a little, not a lot. I wanted to. And, uh, but I, if I was going to class, it was always a ballet class. So of course, and, and I was afraid to go to a jazz class because it was just so different.

So it was my problem, not anybody else's. But this combination was so beautiful, I just, I had to make it work. And, um, I just kept, even if I have my number wasn't up to do it on stage, I was always off doing it behind, uh, so that I could get it. And then there was this other part where there was an improvisation, but the guidance was is you have a balloon, and then while you're doing these isolations, you're gonna catch the balloon and, you know, and watch it go and catch it again with the other hand. You could put it around you, put it on your head, and then let it roll off you and you catch it. Those were the hints, and, uh, so I did all that, and then Bob started coming up on stage and working with all of us, and he, he said, he said, you know, why don't you try this move?

Because it says the same thing, but I think it's gonna be better on you, this one. So I did, and we started all of a sudden, all of us were working. We weren't auditioning anymore, we were working, and, uh, and it was, I said after it was all over, I said, gee, even if I don't get this, this is the best day I've ever had. You know, and we went back three times. He, he was really taking his time to discern who we wanted, and because it was a small group, uh, and, um, and he really wanted people who trusted him first and foremost, and, uh, um, and then, you know, can they, even if they can't get the style right then and there, can they get the style in rehearsal? And, uh, um, and by the time those three days were up, he was like a friend, you know, um, uh, a great guy, and he danced beautifully, and, uh, um, so I got the job, and I told my father, I said, you know, some we're working 12 hour days, you know, when you do 10 out of 12, yeah, oh yeah.

And, and I, and I said, you know, it doesn't bother me. I don't even get tired, it's so inspiring this work. And he gave, we were the other star. There were the stars of, of Pippin, and there then there was the ensemble, and they were the star too. And it's the same combination in Chicago, five principles, and then the ensemble, they're the sixth star. So he dealt with the ensemble, as did many, many times, so did Michael Bennett. I think people come from dance like Jerome Robbins, Agnes De Mille, Michael, Tommy Toon, Bob, they revere dancing so much so that the ensemble becomes, uh, an important entity to an extension of that almost, yeah. So, um, and it helps, it helps. Um, so I, I was also fortunate to sort of live through the dance boom, so to speak, you know, um, you know, where the triple threat was required.

Um, but you know, if dancing is the strongest suit, and it was with a lot with Michael and Tommy and, uh, Bob, uh, you know, I, I even worked a little bit with Agnes De Mille. I was recreating, oh, that was another good day. What, uh, who was that? Uh, it was for, um, American Dance Machine, and we were recreating, you remember? Oh, so great. Uh, all of the, um, the Paint Your Wagon, pa da da. So, um, I had learned it from somebody who had already worked with, with, uh, Agnes. And then Agnes came for the, the taping of it, and her images, her ability to speak, uh, she was a brilliant writer.

[28:30] Ann Reinking: She's the best person to read if you want to read about dance. She's one of the best, you know, that she can make in a verbal quest, she can make dance come alive, and you could see it. Uh and the things that she imparted were so true. Like, you know, um, you're basically, even though you're in uh in the west and you're not a woman of good repute, you're still innocent. You're still exceptionally young. Most people died at a certain age, in young age, these miners that came to 49ers, as she said, that came to the West. And uh so that you have to see it as somebody who's being bombarded with no rules, especially for women, but still innocent, you're not that old. And I it just all of a sudden made that dance come alive.

It went beyond romantic, it had layers, and and uh Tommy Toon works that way, uh, Bob works that way, Michael, any of the dance great dancers that choreographed, they all work the same way. The steps are your verbiage, and uh they're important. And um and I'm not saying anything against, you know, if you're just doing you know, dance for dance sake, I think that's great too. But in musical theater, you have to tell a story, so they are words and these steps. So um I really loved what I was doing, but I loved it more after these people, you know, uh after I worked with these people. Uh it just only increased my adoration, not only for them, but also uh my respect for dance, and that was pretty high up anyway. Of course.

[30:22] Ann Reinking: So, you know, uh, even when they got cranky, I said, What can I do to help? You know, they have to do 16 numbers in like six weeks. I mean, you know, it's a lot. So much dance in that. Oh my god. Yeah, would you be able to talk a little bit about uh how the Manson trio came about? Um in Pippin. We're learning glory, and that's where the Manson trio is. We're learning glory, and it's a very good song, and then Bob wanted, okay. Now I want a vaudeville uh moment here, and he was working with the dance director and with Steven Schwartz, and I watched these three people take this number that was lovely. I mean, good, very good, but only a couple of pages and turn it into an opus almost of great variety.

Uh and um Bob, this is a fun piece of information. Um the Charles Manson trio was created on Come On Baby, let the good times roll, uh, with Harry Nielsen singing it. Oh yeah, and so he had had that almost created by the time we went to rehearsal, and a lot of the Charles Manson was also in the audition steps, so a lot of the isolation, a lot of stuff pumping underneath, but you're showing no nothing, it just has to go through your eyes to where the audience has to say, something's not right here, you know, get an itch on the back of their neck, and uh and it's loaded, but it's so pure at the same time, it's a real paradox, and um and so when he did that, I was stunned. Now it's not that unusual. I just never had seen it be done in front of me.

[32:20] Ann Reinking: Like if you watch a lot of MGM Fred Astaire, do you see those big long elongated numbers where they're dancing? They switch gears all the time, it's the same melody, but it's the melody gone Charleston or the melody gone step, you know, that kind of thing. Right, rearranged, rearranged, yes, and uh so uh the arrangements are key, and he was good at that, Bob. He was and so was Agnes, she could read music. Uh a lot of these people were musicians on their own. Uh that was so cool. And then when he said, when he gave the imagery of this really cool trio, he said, Behind you are going to be these desks, then they're beautiful and they're all in slow motion, and you're dancing in front of them like nothing's wrong.

Like you're uh the sort of the propaganda of war, that war is kind of cool, and at what place glory, but glory, and uh and but uh, and you didn't see those people, you know, die, or they you know, so the the juxtaposition of those two images of these, you know, doffing their hat and having came and uh and it's kind of classic vaudeville, but at half uh at half tempo, you know, but you have the energy. Uh Gwen used to say uh the energy never stops, even if you do. It's like a sewing machine inside your body that go up and down, up and down, up and down. Everything on your face is placid. But if you have that energy inside, it comes out through the eyes.

[34:05] Ann Reinking: Oh, yeah. And the and that the uh um the tension in the room is palpable. And uh so learning it like that, and also until they the dancer ranger made it, you know, the made it like come on, baby, let the good times roll. When we danced it, come on, baby, let the good times roll. It was eerie. It was eerie, and it was very, I would say anti-war, but it was actually anti-glamour because we glamorize everything. We glamorize, well, Chicago's the same thing. We glamorize killers, they're on TV more than uh more than our teachers, more than our parents, more than anybody who gives you some good advice. Uh the bad boy and the bad girl get more attention than anybody. And you know, we should question that perhaps, you know, um uh glamour can kill uh just probably as many people as war.

Yeah, you know, so you know, so you're dealing with big ideas, but you're not supposed to show big ideas, you're just supposed to feel them. So it's your education about it. That was absolutely cool. I could not wait to get to work. You know, when I did 10 out of 12s, I really didn't want to take two hours off to eat lunch and dinner. You know, I wanted to continue to dance. It was just so neat.

[35:28] Ann Reinking: And um, and Bob, it you know, once I got to know um Michael during uh a chorus line, I was so grateful I had that second opportunity because I really liked Michael. But in the beginning, he was this mystery to me. Yeah, oh yeah. You know, and then I realized this is a nice guy under a lot of pressure, you know. At that point, he's got the world's greatest show in his hands, and everybody wants a piece of him, and he stayed nice. Uh Cheetah Rivera said that once. Uh-oh, looks like three nice women are gonna turn mean, and I just started laughing because you don't want to turn mean, you want to stay nice.

[36:19] Ann Reinking: Liza, darling. We've got to help the boys hit behind the curtain. Oh, Broadway's living legends. Oh, it's marvelous. Well, what would they like? Some cream of wheat. No, mommy, they want some money. Money? Well, let's send them a great big bag of money. No, all you have to do is go to Patreon.com. You know, it's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com and you set up a monthly donation. Money makes the world go around, Mama. Oh, don't I know? No, Patreon.com. Do it now.

[36:52] Ann Reinking: And when you were when you were doing shows at night during the day, were you taking acting classes, singing classes? How how are you keeping your instrument active? Yeah, you you used you oh, I also went to auditions, you know, like for commercials. Because I I'm very bad at auditioning and I have a real fear of them. So I said, you know, can you send me up for every commercial known to mankind? So I could do at least two auditions a day, cold readings. You know, I I went to try, wanted to get the job, but I had to practice auditioning. So um I did that. Um, I went, of course, to ballet class because I'm too chicken to go to jazz class, but I stayed in shape that way. You know what I mean? And I went, I had a lovely voice teacher, Oral, who was like everybody's grandmother, and she really could teach. Uh and she got it so that I could do a whole show and not get laryngitis, you know, and you know, gave me a technique.

[37:51] Ann Reinking: So she said, Look, you sing on key, you've got you have support, you're you're loud, you know. She was nice way of saying that, but hear you, that's key, because nothing's good if they can't hear you. One of my best directions was from Jean Sachs, it's not funny if they can't hear you. And you know, and I said, Well, there's the truth, you know, because I was I just kind of, you know, I don't know what I was uh giving it enough force. This is in by my birdie with Tommy, and I said, No truer words were said. It's not if they can't hear you, nothing's nothing. You know, that's the first requirement, you know. Not even a chance, not even a chance. There's no chance for a laugh then. Uh so um, and she was like that.

She just said, Look, we're gonna do a lot of practical things. Uh, we're gonna get you so you can support yourself, and uh and and and you would try to make the sound sweeter. Um, he said, You got a croaky voice, so we're gonna work with that. That's who you are. Uh, but she said, I'm gonna have you sing some opera because I want you to be able to get to continue your sound, but to have it stay healthy. So um uh and she really understood my uh predicament, and uh and and really really helped me.

[39:11] Ann Reinking: So I would take two or three voice lessons. I didn't take as many dance classes as I could have because I was I suffered from fatigue from time to time, really serious fatigue. And I found out later, this is after I retired, I started having real trouble breathing, and I had real trouble with anxiety, inappropriate anxiety, and a backache that would not go away. And uh so finally, uh someone said, I think you should see a cardiologist. It turns out I had a hole in my heart from the day I was born. What? Yeah, I know. And by the time I stopped dancing, and it was really giving me you know serious trouble, uh uh it was pretty large. And I had a trans ischemic uh uh event, sort of like event. Um, you know, I just was going downhill, uh, but they could fix it, which was great, and I feel a lot better. But uh, you know, at certain points I said, now I know why I was so tired all the time.

[40:19] Ann Reinking: Oh yeah. Sounds like, yeah, and being on stage with my legs would feel like lead. And you know, dancers just push through it. There's you know, of course, yes. So it explained a lot. Fortunately, I it didn't kill me, but it just what's the one thing a girl with a hole in her heart shouldn't do? Dance real hard on Broadway. We're laughing, but you're I mean, that's and that's what dancers do. Do you want a career? Yes. And it probably would have been better that I didn't know because I'd have been cautious and it would have uh I would have been talking about something different, you know. But uh I love my life. Um very happy for it, and uh just was lucky that they caught it in time. Yeah, but it explained a lot, because I I a lot of people said you don't go to class, and I said, not when I'm performing.

Uh when I'm not performing, I go all the time. Yeah, of course. You know, but you know, because I could only take a couple of hours, you know. Uh uh matinee days were tough on me, uh, really tough. And so uh I would just either stay in or go home and eat and come back. I didn't do go out all the time, you know, like a lot of my friends went out. I went from time to time, but I mostly stayed in because I was exhausted.

[41:37] Ann Reinking: Yeah, of course. And now it made sense. I just thought everybody felt like that. They were covering up, just like me. Oh, I'm fine. Just not everybody. Oh my gosh. Now, can we talk a little bit about over here? Which was a big big moment for your for you in your career. Huge, yeah. Tell us about that, Pat Birch, the the Andrew sisters. Well, first of all, not to take anything away from Bob because if Bob and all these great director choreographers that I worked with didn't highlight the ensemble so much, I still would be lost. But Pat Birch came to see Pippin and I got a call from her. And uh when I went in, uh she, you know, this is when you still were on you would walk on stage and they were in the audience, just like the show of chorus line. Uh now everybody goes to a studio. But I walk on stage, and this woman stands up and points to me and says, That's her.

[42:43] Ann Reinking: And she got me that job. She did. I talk about going in three times again. She's the one who supported me. And then she did this amazing jitterbug for John Minio and myself. And she really believed in me. So I always try to, I always give amazing credit to everybody I worked with, and of course to Bob because he was a huge part of my entire career. But I have to let people know that Pat Birch gave me my first principal part.

[43:14] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[43:15] Ann Reinking: And Bob didn't hire me back until I got nominated for Goodtime Charley. Finally, he asked me back, you know. See? I had to get that Tony nod. So can we talk a little bit about Goodtime Charley?

[43:32] Ann Reinking: Oh, yeah. Oh, before we do, I want to say that what I knew who the Andrews Sisters were because my dad loved them. Oh, yeah, please. Love them. And I heard all their albums because he played them. You know, 78. That's how old I am. Yeah. You know, 78 records. So not 78, 78 records, guys. No, I'm just 70 now, but let's talk in eight years. But um wait. Uh so I knew them, but I did not know that they were like rock stars in their day.

[44:02] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[44:03] Ann Reinking: Because also the war, they represented hope. They were everywhere. They were huge stars, and I had no idea. People were running down the aisles and throwing flowers on stage, uh screaming like at a rock concert. They all these people that look like my parents, they were just gone. All crazy. All crazy. And I really this is like 30 years after the war, you figure 30 years, you know.

[44:29] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[44:30] Ann Reinking: Yeah, yeah. 30 plus years. Yeah, because the war ended, uh, that would be 80. 44. Yeah. Yeah, 44. So um, yeah, it was amazing. And I really, you know, I liked them and I was glad I knew who they were. But when I found out exactly who they were, I was really impressed. And and once again, they turned out to be nice people. You know, I you know, I asked Maxine, I said, can you I everybody asks this of you, and you can say no. I'm doing the disclaimer. I said, but my dad has a major crush on you, and I know who you are because of my dad. Do you mind coming out to dinner after the show? She goes, Oh, sure. And she's like a regular gal, you know. My dad was it was a probably the best moment, other than having children and getting his life in his life, you know. And she too was just she was remarkable. They both were classy, yeah, classy.

[45:33] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[45:33] Ann Reinking: So there's a Goodtime Charley. Uh that was Peter Hunt, who fought for me and uh wanted me, and the director uh Brown, I can't remember his first name now.

[45:46] Kevin David Thomas: Max Brown.

[45:47] Ann Reinking: That's it. Thank you. Smart. Very good. It's the internet, but thank you. These magical devices. You know. They were on my side. And uh not that others weren't, it's just that they were convinced they were the first to be convinced that uh this would be a good person to have to play Joan of Arc. And uh and I was dying to. Um, so I kept going once again. I had to by the time I got they got through auditioning me, because over and over and over, uh I I had earned it. So and I probably knew about half the show by then. And uh and that was really wonderful because it was great to work with Joel. I adored Peter Hunt. Um, he was a such a supportive um uh director, and he also was a good actor and a great lighting designer.

So he he had an immense amount of work under his belt, and he had a cockeyed sense of humor, which I adored, and it was very evident with Peter Stone's book uh 1776. So he was a director for that. So those sensibilities I I loved. Uh so just a little quirky. So it was a lot of fun to to be a saint. Uh the two things that every actor wants to do is be a saint or a sinner. So I went right from uh Joan of Arc. I I did Cassie once again, you know, uh uh more of a saint than anything. And then after Cassie, I did Roxie. So I literally went from Saint to Sinner. So uh that that was a very nurturing uh three or four years to go from Over Here to Goodtime Charley, get a nomination, which was remarkable for me because it it proved that I was uh, you know, I wasn't a fluke that I you can hire material kind of thing.

[47:49] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[47:50] Ann Reinking: Uh to that to uh Cassie. And we went in uh two months right after it opened because uh New York most of the New York show went to LA, San Francisco and LA. So talk about somebody with a large amount of energy. Um uh Donna came in to teach some of the Cassie dance, and she did the first two steps in this whack, big huge and my knees buckled. I thought, oh my god, I almost fainted. There was so much energy that came off of her, and that woman is strong. I mean, strong, and uh and stay feminine to be that strong and still, you know, very tenant and and uh um oh she was amazing. So um so I had that experience working with Michael again, then going into uh um uh Chicago, right, where not only was I being directed and redirected with Bob and re-choreographed some of it, but Gwen was there teaching a lot of it to me, along with Catherine Dobie. That's not that unusual in the in the uh in the dance world. The ballerina always teaches the next generation.

[49:05] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, that's worth saying, yeah, definitely.

[49:07] Ann Reinking: Yeah. Yeah, because it's a hands-on uh it's a visual art, and yeah, you can learn the steps from a interpretation yeah but it's the heart the imparting the images uh the demonstration of it uh when Gwen was teaching especially Sweet Charity to me it was like having Galina Ulanova teach you Giselle one of the greatest Giselles in the world you know and this was one of the greatest dancers in the world and her her uh that part of Sweet Charity is like the Swan Lake of Broadway it really tests your math and uh it's uh it was great uh the the education from from uh Pippin well from all from day one the education was stunning and I'm assuming that carried on through the creation of Dancin is that correct?

[49:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yep.

[49:07] Ann Reinking: Yeah, I was doing pre-production with Bob and Chris Chadman who's another person that Bob started uh recommended as a choreographer and Bob really jump started his career uh that way by just by recommending Chris and uh but it was like this there was Catherine Dovey Chris uh myself uh you know Benedict and Bob and and Gwen was back and forth and um and uh uh the music director uh Gordon Harrell and talk about watching something being created from day one it was the same for Chicago because I was with Bob while he was making Chicago with Fred and John, Fred Ebb and John Kander, and talk about three brilliant human beings. And I got I was uh privy to that, you know. Um all the fun. Uh you speak a little bit about some of those, maybe a little bit. Like what's some could you speak a little bit about with like some of the fun, some of the work, some of the, you know, just yeah, yeah, yeah.

[51:09] Ann Reinking: Um we'll never be able to be in a room with Kander and Ebb together, let alone with Kenneth and Fosse. You know, yeah, and like, and we don't need to see it on TV. I'd like to see, like to hear about what it really is like, you know.

[51:20] Ann Reinking: Yeah, yeah. Well, they work really hard. First, first and foremost, everybody works hard, but they like it. And uh I love the day that I found out that they uh here's the Countess of the Clink, the Mystery Murderous Row, um, that they decided to do this number all about reciprocity that she's the wheeler dealer, and she's and they were at that time she was a Sophie Tucker like character. And uh so the death the the defining of each character, and because it was originally called a musical vaudeville. Uh, what kind of vaudevillian are they? And what do they do? Um uh the other one was uh well, All That Jazz, he loved All That Jazz. And he said, you've got to get them right off the bat and make the glamour so wonderful and so much fun and so entertaining and so talented that by the time you get to Razzle Dazzle, you can tell them all you can do the moral of the story and and say, you know, this really isn't a good thing to do to glamorize this kind of stuff, and uh and wheel and deal in in the downsides of life. But you like all of them.

[52:38] Ann Reinking: So every like um uh oh, you have to look this up for me. It's the uh the vaudevillian who uh made popular the song I Ain't Got Nobody because that's who it was. That's it. Yeah, you're just so smart. Can you stay with me forever? Okay. Well, I thought that was fascinating. Okay, he's Burt Williams. You know, I mean, they were yeah, so you're getting etiquette along the way. When they thought that uh, ladies and gentlemen, uh the keeper of the keys, the Countess of the Clink, the mistress of Murderer's Row, matron Mama Morton, they were so proud of themselves doing that whole uh, you know, um uh all that alliteration, they they loved it, you know, and they were laughing, having fun. All of them lost about 40 years and turned 14, very talented 14-year-olds, but young.

They just they just got young right off the bat, right? And they were having such a good time. What was unfortunate was when Bob had the heart attack and had to have an operation, it changed him for a while. He was terrorized, and as you know, men can't show their vulnerability, so he he had a hard time. But in spite of that, everybody continued to support him. He he made a great show. The three of them made an absolutely perfect show. I don't think they knew how good it was. I honestly don't think I did. I thought it was one of the best things I'd ever seen. Uh, you know, right up there with you know, My Fair Lady, you know, these perfect shows. And uh I don't think they did. So I was so glad that we did the um uh what is it, the Encore series.

[54:27] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, I was gonna ask you, what was it like to revisit it 20 years later?

[54:32] Ann Reinking: Fabulous, it was so wonderful. Once um Walter Bobby said it, I said it has to be done in the style of Bob Fosse. He was one of the authors, and it's so dance-oriented. We've got to have all the concepts the same. We're not gonna reinvent the wheel. It's gotta be done in the style of Bob Fosse and you have to give him credit. So he said fine, you know, because he said there's just as much verbiage in all the steps that there are in the lyrics and the words. So um once that was okay by everybody, it fell into place. All the people who were right to be in the show were all free. And and then they were free again three months later when we went on Broadway. And that doesn't normally happen. Did you know? I mean, did you know going into it like this is gonna spark something again? Or were you just you, yeah?

[55:27] Ann Reinking: Well, I wasn't sure that it was gonna do what it did. I knew it was gonna be good. Uh, especially when when I saw uh the set, you know, it's this giant jury box and it's black and that's good, and it's got a gold trim, and that's good, and it's all uh lights as part of the you know, part of the look of it. It was elegant to look at it. We were all gonna wear, you know, present-day clothes, but always in black, so you could project whatever you want. We've we're floating it. Once I saw that set and that concept, and then they were gonna make Bob equal in this uh uh show. I said, We're we're good. We're good. I didn't, I had no idea that it was. I thought it'd last a couple of years. I had no idea it was going to be what it is.

I'm very happy about it. I really wish that Bob could have seen that. Um, well, let's hope he's up in heaven, as I say all the time. Uh um uh seeing that he really was, he didn't give himself a lot of credit. One time he's he gave himself, he said, okay, I I I guess I'm a master craftsman, and that's the most compliments, complimentary vision he had of himself.

[56:50] Ann Reinking: You know, you do need humbling qualities to take care, keep your talent healthy. Um, you know, not a lot, but a little bit, you know. So when you create just pierced the bubble a little complaint, when you were pro, I'm assuming you were approached for the encore thing. Did you know that you were gonna play Roxy? Did that come later on? Or later. Um, I don't want to say who it was because this person would have made it a hit as well. So, and we'd have gone on, but she couldn't get out of an engagement, and they said they were going to sue her if she did. And so she couldn't. And we tried to rearrange the actual dates that it would be on, so we do different days instead of over a long weekend, um, that it would be different days, and they couldn't do that because other people were scheduled to go into city center.

So everybody started looking at me, and I said, No, I said I'm 20 pounds overweight, you know. But then I knew the show, and I said 20 pounds overweight, I haven't been in front of anybody in a long time, and Walter Bobby blessed his heart because this is what did it. He said, Oh, Ann, you can bowl your way through four shows, and I went, I can. I can't say beyond four shows. It's the dancer spark, it's that's yes, you can. Of course, I love it. I know because this is on a Friday, and what is it? It was Friday before we actually started on Monday for those 10 days before you go on stage. So that was when you decided to take on the part? That's yeah, that's when I said, Okay, I'll do it. That was on a Friday.

Because we really wanted this other person. I guess so. And so I thought I was filling in being a good girl and being a nice, well, yeah. And I know I was good in the role, you know. So I mean I'm not putting myself down in a way, but I knew I could do the role, I knew it'd be fine. I had worked with Bebe before, we're great together because we said we charity, and we had also done our own version of Chicago with Julia Prouse that I incorporated. So we had worked together at least three times and loved every minute of it. We get along and we're good, and we know so I didn't think it was like trying to shove somebody that wasn't appropriate into the part. Um, I just thought, well, that's it, and I'll do that, and then it just mushroomed into this, and but I did lose 20 pounds before we opened in September.

I believe that. I know the old dancer instincts took over that yeah, gave it all back when it's eight shows a week, it's eight shows a week now, and a Tony Award, a Tony Award for this. Yeah, it was great. I had to thank Bob for he stood up for me so many times, was just what I actually said, and it was his Tony, but I know he would have been very proud of me, you know. I know you know sometimes you know that even you can't take it away from yourself, right? You know that you did a good job, and because a lot of us are our worst critics, but it's really strong if even you can't take it away from you. That's how strong it was.

[1:00:40] Kevin David Thomas: You did the work too. I mean, you were there though, you did all the work too.

[1:00:44] Ann Reinking: I was there, I was lucky and I was happy because right after that Gwen had asked me to do Fosse, yeah, and I was ready to do it, you know. I had enough work under my belt of Bob's work and of you know directing and choreographing that I knew I could string together and make whole, yeah. And so did Gwen. So she got me the job, and she also got, she was the reason why Chicago is also an integral reason why Chicago is a hit, is because she allowed us to do this show because she owned the show. She was one of the ones, yeah. Right, right. So she said yes to many things, and that's a lot of affirmation, and because I know I'm his champion, but Gwen is his champion, champion, champion, and she really believed in him, and she was right, and she's the one who started the lab for Bob's work, and she brought people in who had Bob had choreographed for, so I went in a few times.

This is the start of Fosse, this is the like the beginning. It's a laboratory experience at Broadway Dance Center, and um you know, just recreating all these numbers, and I saw numbers that I had never seen before, like Cool and Luke, which I thought was just the most fragile and the most beautiful, tender, beautiful, elegant pieces, piece of work I had ever seen. And if you weren't watching, I think it was Bob Hope, for that five minutes, you'd never see it, yeah, because it was the TV, right? And but she taught all those TV things, and along with dances that nobody knows other than Gwen, like from Herbie's Fitch from Redhead, that kind of stuff. So just wonderful, wonderful wealth. She had a, what is it, photographic memory?

She could remember everything, including numbers, actual numbers like five, six, seven, eight, yeah, yeah, yeah. Numbers that you danced to, but you know, she just had it, and she took care of all of Bob's shows, so she had been my employer along with Bob for about 15 years, and then longer because she said, okay, to be able to do Chicago as well as Fosse. So she's one of the best bosses probably I ever had, you know. So she was a good, good human being. It's astounding how good she is, you know. It's really refreshing to hear so many memories and see her. You never hear a bad word, like you never ever, ever hear a bad anecdote about Gwen Verdon. You just hear, you see a sparkle in the eyes of every person we talked to, you know, and let alone people that really knew her well.

Did when you guys were putting the Fosse, you know, dances together, at what point did we say, okay, this is gonna be like a real, I mean, let alone be a big old hit. But at what point did it say we got a show here? We know we're gonna put this together and make this a new sort of like dancing 2.0, literally to the year 2000.

[1:04:11] Ann Reinking: Um, yeah, well the numbers were beautifully reconstructed, but um it was a really young group of people. And both Gwen and I agreed we gotta get some older people in this company. We need character, and also people who because we still could get people who had already worked with Bob and loved him and was devoted to his work. So once we got that in and the casting was done, like who's gonna dance what? And I did three hours and 15 minutes. I produced it, I made the, I didn't make them. I fortunately they decided to do the three hours and 15 minutes, and then we'll see what floats up. But what it did do is that I had the light plots, the costumes, the set, and the orchestrations for all those numbers that we didn't do, so that it could become modular. So, like when I did Hamburg, it was a lot different from the one.

[1:05:23] Kevin David Thomas: I did not know that.

[1:05:23] Ann Reinking: Oh, wow. So you could sort of mix and match as necessary.

[1:05:26] Ann Reinking: Yeah, the Fosse's are great people to work with, let me put it that way. And I enjoyed working with Nicole tremendously because she was in on some of the things because Bob had done this brilliant piece of this brilliant ballet to a jazz version of the Firebird, the Firebird on point. And I wanted that in there, but it was hard to find a ballerina who was as strong as Nicole that wanted to do ensemble work because this was the Fosse was an ensemble piece. Everybody got their moment in the sun, some more than others, but it was ensembles, so you needed someone who had that mentality and also had enough talent to do solo to be a star, you know. So yeah, so there you have it. So that's about it, isn't it?

[1:06:14] Kevin David Thomas: I love that. And our last question for you is, you know, what do you know now about yourself as a performer, as a director that you wish you had known when you first started out?

[1:06:27] Ann Reinking: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been asked to write letters to my younger self, you know, a woman in Australia, a beautiful spirit. She out of the blue asked if I would write a letter to my younger self. And I was this age now, 70, maybe 69, but you know, because when I did it the first time I was in my 40s and that's a different answer when you're in your 40s. It was good. It's fine, you know, but it was basically when I said my 40s, don't worry about your future, you won't be lonely. You will be fine. Just trust you'll be all right that things will work out. Well when I was in my late 60s and 70s it was even more and it was listen to that voice inside of you. It is the smart one. And if you hear it even slightly your conscience, don't do it.

Yeah if it's saying no, say no. If it's saying yes, go ahead. Don't take the kind of, it's not to say don't risk take, but if you hear that voice, pay attention to it. That's the one that got to me the most because I think every performer has this classic notion that you've been fooling them, you know, or you've been lucky for 40 years, which obviously nobody's lucky for 40 years, but you get in this mentality of thinking that they're gonna find me out or she's better than me anyway. Finally I realized I could appreciate myself without being a jerk about it. And also that my instincts were good. And that's something that Fred taught me, you know I would go shopping in between we were doing The Visit and he was still alive and I would shop it.

We were in Chicago and I had this watch and then another watch. And I said, which watch do you like the most? And he picked that one. I got me too. I like that one. And then I kept doing it. And finally it was handkerchiefs. Which handkerchief do you like better? This one or this one. He pointed me too. I shouldn't almost trust my first instincts. And he goes like this. He pointed at me and he said, see. And then he was very nice to me. And he said, And you have to understand, it's not like your second instinct was bad, but your first instinct is the best. The second one was good, but the first one's better. That is valuable. And working with someone like Fred or Gwen and all these people that we've been talking about, they are nurturing people, and they allow you to eventually believe in yourself without being, you know, you know, stupid about it. You know, yes.

[1:09:17] Kevin David Thomas: And that's a great gift. I was and your time with us today has been such a special gift for us. I can't tell you how much we appreciate it. And a big thanks to Michael Kubala, a previous guest who was able to put us. He's the best who put us in contact. And this was so wonderful and so special. I hope you stay safe and healthy out there and have a good old time for the rest of the week.

[1:09:37] Ann Reinking: Thank you. I hope you do too. And thanks so much.

[1:09:44] Robert W. Schneider: Thank you for listening to today's episode. And a big thanks to the punchy players, Jeff Marquis, who is bringing back Lucy, Betty, Judy, and more to shill for us. And a big thanks to our sound editor, Daniel Schwartzberg, and social media manager Bethany and Selecting. And don't forget, we want more folks to hear these incredible stories, and that's where you come in. In order for people to find out about us, we need lots of ratings on iTunes. So head on over to iTunes, search for Behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends. Click on our logo, click on ratings and reviews, then write a review and leave us five stars and make us feel as special as Eliza Doolittle on Eliza Doolittle Day. Or you can leave us just one star and you can make us feel as baddie, baddie, bad as Annie did in that really weird production in Boston where Annie dreamt that she was being adopted, but then she ended up back where in the orphanage, right? Back where she started.

[1:10:34] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, true story, Rob saw it.

[1:10:35] Robert W. Schneider: Yes, and it was badly.

[1:10:39] Ann Reinking: It was bizarre.

[1:10:40] Robert W. Schneider: I was there.

[1:10:42] Kevin David Thomas: Oh god.

[1:10:44] Robert W. Schneider: So head on over to iTunes and make us feel even more special than we already did.