This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Kevin David Thomas: Dear friends, we are so sorry about the ads. They are a nightmare in every way, but with your donations, we can get rid of ads someday.

[0:05] Robert W. Schneider: Beautiful, Kevin. Thanks, Rob.

[0:11] Kevin David Thomas: Bach and Harnick are smiling so big right now. Eat your hearts out. Friends, yes, we are back with a new plea. Much like those adorable puppets from Avenue Q, we are asking for you to give us your money. For those of you who have headed over to Patreon to throw a little money our way, we thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts.

[0:28] Robert W. Schneider: Your contributions are the only budget we have for this show, and it provided us a new soundboard and better studio space, so a thank you. Thank you. And as you know, nothing is more fulfilling than talking to the legends of Broadway and hearing them share their thoughts, wisdom, and talents with all of us. However, it does cost money.

[0:45] Kevin David Thomas: And if you want to help us keep the show going, please head over to Patreon.com. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com. Search for Behind the Curtain, and you can give as little as a dollar a month. And trust me, that dollar will help us more than you will ever know.

[1:00] Robert W. Schneider: Plus, for certain monetary donations, you will get to pick your favorite thing and have advanced knowledge of our future guests so you can ask the legends your own questions. Or you can simply leave canned goods and an original cast recording of How Now, Dow Jones outside our doors if you don't want to contribute on Patreon.com.

[1:18] Kevin David Thomas: Truth. So once again, please head over to Patreon.com. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N.com to help us out. Thanks.

[1:24] Robert W. Schneider: Thank you. Hi, I'm Rob Schneider.

[1:27] Kevin David Thomas: And I'm Kevin David Thomas.

[1:28] Robert W. Schneider: And this is Behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter at Broadway Curtain, and make sure to join our Facebook page at Behind the Curtain, Broadway's Living Legends.

[1:38] Kevin David Thomas: And follow us on Instagram at Broadway Curtain Podcast. Plus, you can always listen to our podcasts on Broadway World and Stitcher.

[1:44] Robert W. Schneider: In 1955, today's guest arrived in New York City with a dream to be on Broadway. Well, 60-plus years later, not only has his dream come true, his story and his work ethic have inspired countless artists to follow in his footsteps.

[1:58] Kevin David Thomas: And what footsteps they are. Today's guest was in the original Broadway productions of, get ready, New Girl in Town, West Side Story, on stage and on film, Redhead, Gypsy, Hello, Dolly, Anyone Can Whistle, George M., the iconic 1969 Our Town, Follies, Barnum, Sunset Boulevard, The Scarlet Pimpernel, and Trevor Nunn's Oklahoma.

[2:19] Robert W. Schneider: Not to mention the countless regional theaters, summer stocks, and dinner theaters he has graced. To tell us what it was like to work with such legends as Gwen Verdon, Bob Fosse, Hal Prince, Lee Remick, Jerome Robbins, Ethel Merman, Henry Fonda, and how he was the cover boy for After Dark Magazine, here is the eternally youthful. Oh, get your research. Oh, my God. It is the wonderful and youthful Harvey Evans.

[2:43] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, my God. Hi, Harvey.

[2:45] Harvey Evans: See, I only read my part of the introduction, so I didn't even get to that part about he was on the cover of After Dark Magazine.

[2:50] Kevin David Thomas: How'd you find that out?

[2:51] Harvey Evans: Well, so when we Google you, because that's our main form of research now, is Google.

[2:57] Kevin David Thomas: The internet, yeah.

[2:58] Harvey Evans: The internet. There's this thing called Google Images, and so it shows photos of the person, and most of the photos, Harvey, are you on the cover of After Dark Magazine with only a straw hat and a smile.

[3:09] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, we are finding that, and we are going to...

[3:11] Harvey Evans: Oh, my God, yes.

[3:12] Kevin David Thomas: ...share the glory that is you on that cover.

[3:16] Harvey Evans: It gets passed around a lot, and I hear amongst After Dark collectors, it's one of the most coveted magazines. I'm not joking.

[3:23] Kevin David Thomas: So, Harvey, how did that happen? How did you get on the cover of After Dark Magazine?

[3:27] Harvey Evans: It was because I got Our Town and Follies at the same time, more or less.

[3:33] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, wow.

[3:34] Harvey Evans: And Craig Zayden, who worked for After Dark Magazine, called me and said, we want to do an article on you. Would you mind? And I said, no, no. And they said, would you send over some pictures? So I sent over my pictures, and they were rejected.

[3:55] Kevin David Thomas: Oh.

[3:55] Harvey Evans: And I said, why? And they said, they're not up to date enough, and we want to send you to Ken Duncan to have your picture taken. Well, now, Ken was one of those photographers, he preferred nudes...

[4:12] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[4:12] Harvey Evans: ...like most of them did. And I said, no, I can't go to Ken Duncan. I'm a boy from Cincinnati, Ohio. I can't. I can't. And they said, well, we're going to pay for it, and please. And I got to tell you that five minutes working with Ken Duncan, I had my clothes off.

[4:37] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[4:39] Harvey Evans: Now, not totally closed off, but he took some beautiful, beautiful pictures of me.

[4:47] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, the photos are gorgeous, and it's such a cool spread, so congratulations on that. Now, you said you were a boy in Cincinnati.

[4:55] Harvey Evans: Yes.

[4:55] Kevin David Thomas: So how did you discover the joys of theater living in Cincinnati?

[4:59] Harvey Evans: I don't know. My mom and dad sent me to a dancing school when I was young, when maybe four or five years old.

[5:08] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, wow.

[5:09] Harvey Evans: And they said I was shy. That's all they told me. And they always, they just said, we were shy, so we sent you to dancing school. However, they must have done their research, because they picked the best teacher in Cincinnati at that point. He was an old vaudevillian, Pep Golden was his name.

[5:25] Kevin David Thomas: Pep Golden.

[5:26] Harvey Evans: Yes, and he didn't teach technique as much as he taught performance. So consequently, I think that helped me later in my life, because I didn't worry so much about the technique of a step, but more or less what they wanted to do with that step. And I learned that from Liza Minnelli, too. She said after they do the step, then watch their face.

[5:51] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, interesting.

[5:52] Harvey Evans: And this teacher, I mean, we did Eddie Cantor imitations, and Pal Joey, and Al Jolson, and stuff like that. And then he'd send us out, and we were a bunch of just little kids. He'd send us out on weekends to do shows at the workhouse or any place that we could get $5, you know.

[6:16] Kevin David Thomas: And your parents were supportive of this?

[6:18] Harvey Evans: Very supportive, because I don't know why. My father kind of always wanted to be in show business. He wanted to lead a band, but we would go out on weekends. So me and my little partner, Patsy Heffron, we sort of grew up in the back of saloons, and we thought that was the norm. I didn't realize other people didn't do show business either, and it wasn't made fun of in school or anything.

[6:49] Kevin David Thomas: That was your extracurricular activity when you were growing up, basically, is you were already doing show business.

[6:55] Harvey Evans: Yeah. And then at a certain age, I discovered all this stuff on television, like we said, Ed Sullivan and stuff like that. And I started learning more about the business and more about what variety is and everything.

[7:13] Kevin David Thomas: Let alone the musical, which you had an iconic experience, right?

[7:16] Harvey Evans: Well, every other day, every other Sunday, there was a number with Peter Gennaro or Gwen or Fosse, and it seemed like Fosse and Gwen and Peter and Carol Haney and all that, they switched numbers all the time. It wasn't the same number, but I grew up knowing their work.

[7:37] Kevin David Thomas: So you were familiar even in the early 50s of what they were doing?

[7:41] Harvey Evans: Yeah. In fact, I wanted to study with Peter Gennaro. Fosse was my idol. Gwen Verdon was my biggest crush in the world, and I would know it from television.

[7:54] Kevin David Thomas: That's incredible. And then I read somewhere that you saw Song of Norway, and that had an impact on your life.

[8:00] Harvey Evans: Oh, my God, you did good work. Yes, it did, because it opened the classical door for me.

[8:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. I mean, the whole show is Song of Norway. I didn't see that one coming.

[8:09] Harvey Evans: Yeah. Well, it was an old road company or something, but it had all that Greek music, and I became fond of it, and it started my love of classical music, I think.

[8:24] Kevin David Thomas: So you graduate high school, and then you just sit down and go to New York?

[8:29] Harvey Evans: Yeah, that was the plan with my folks. You know, you can have, I think maybe they said, you can have a thousand dollars, you can go to college, you can go to New York. And my dancing teacher, Rita, who was wonderful, but she had a group of people like me that were on the verge of making it sort of... We had a dance team, and she said, I want to send you kids to New York, to Las Vegas. And my parents said, we're not, we didn't pay for all those classes for you to go to Las Vegas. You are going to New York, buddy, whether you like it or not, you know.

[9:14] Kevin David Thomas: They're good parents.

[9:17] Harvey Evans: They were, because what they did was, in the 10th grade, they came to New York with me, and I studied from Ernest Carlos and people like that here. 11th grade, they let me come by myself. So when I got to the 12th grade, I sort of knew New York, and I knew Kenny Urmston, who was a dancer from Cincinnati.

[9:36] Kevin David Thomas: So you were already sort of figuring out how New York, because that's a big kind of culture shock.

[9:41] Harvey Evans: Oh, it was a culture shock. I remember crying on the way to the bus with my little suitcase. I felt like Lily.

[9:48] Kevin David Thomas: Do you remember the first Broadway show you saw?

[9:55] Harvey Evans: No, but it was around Can-Can time, maybe a little earlier. I saw Wish You Were Here. I saw Can-Can.

[10:03] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, with the swimming pool on stage, Wish You Were Here.

[10:05] Harvey Evans: Yeah.

[10:06] Kevin David Thomas: Jack Cassidy.

[10:07] Harvey Evans: Oh, my favorite.

[10:08] Kevin David Thomas: Can-Can was really my favorite.

[10:10] Harvey Evans: Well, because, yeah.

[10:11] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, Gwen, you know.

[10:12] Harvey Evans: So that was the first time you saw her on stage live.

[10:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, it was.

[10:15] Harvey Evans: So what was that experience like watching her? Now, you didn't know her at that point, but what was it like seeing this woman dance?

[10:21] Harvey Evans: Well, I had seen her dance on television, so I knew that she was spectacular. And then maybe I read something in Dance Magazine or something like that, but to watch her was unbelievable, because she was the greatest dancer I'd seen ever, and probably still is.

[10:38] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, agreed.

[10:40] Harvey Evans: I do not disagree with you. What do you think the greatest lesson you learned from Gwen Verdon?

[10:46] Harvey Evans: Oh, my God. There were so many, but I don't know. Right off the top of my head, she had the ability to sell out front, but be able to watch behind her, because she'd give us notes.

[11:08] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, that is such a good recollection.

[11:11] Harvey Evans: I know. She would give us notes, and we'd say, how did you see that?

[11:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[11:15] Harvey Evans: You're out front performing. So maybe it's don't ever let down in front of Gwen Verdon, but she didn't. That just shows the awareness she had while she was performing.

[11:30] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[11:31] Harvey Evans: That she could deliver, could give you that energy to the young Harveys in the audience, and yet she's such a team player and knows exactly what's going on around her. I mean, that's sensational.

[11:40] Kevin David Thomas: Well, I think she also had the best teacher in the world with Jack Cole.

[11:44] Harvey Evans: I mean, whatever. We try to bring his name up as much as possible on this podcast.

[11:47] Kevin David Thomas: Well, he was our leader. He sort of created jazz.

[11:51] Harvey Evans: Yeah, he did. The way we think of it today. I keep saying there would be no Fosse or no Gower and nothing without Jack Cole.

[12:01] Kevin David Thomas: But just don't let down.

[12:06] Harvey Evans: She never let down, I don't think. And she would go on in whatever condition she was in. Remember, she went through hell on New Girl in Town. George Abbott gave her hell, and she was having trouble with the role, and he was at her, and she was going to Sandy Meisner to learn to act.

[12:36] Kevin David Thomas: Oh.

[12:36] Harvey Evans: And he was as method as you could get.

[12:39] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[12:40] Harvey Evans: So she came and brought all that to the theater. Now, that is so unlike George Abbott.

[12:47] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah.

[12:48] Harvey Evans: Because he would say, Gwen, just say the line, Gwen.

[12:54] Kevin David Thomas: She'd be up there spending five minutes on some teary scene.

[12:58] Harvey Evans: Right, right. Say the line, Gwen.

[13:03] Harvey Evans: And then I was lucky because I wound up in LA. I left the company of Damn Yankees in LA and he was auditioning for Pajama Game, the movie of Pajama Game, right? So I got that and then during that time he said to me, would you consider coming back to New York and being in New Girl in Town? And I think I jumped a jump 40 feet high, you know, and that didn't let them know how excited I was. But I said, of course I would. He said you will have to audition, but you'll get it. So that's a nice audition. I know what those are the best ones if that would happen now.

[15:52] Robert W. Schneider: So your first time meeting Bob Fosse?

[15:55] Harvey Evans: Starstruck. Oh, completely. Oh, we all had crushes on him. Yeah. Yeah, everybody did. Did you audition for that with Damn Yankees? Was that at a theater? Do you remember if it was he at the first audition when you were on?

[16:08] Harvey Evans: Yeah, it was at the 46th Street Theater, which was where Damn Yankees was playing, which is where the Richard Rodgers Theater is, uh-huh, where Hamilton is. And we auditioned and got it. So let's talk about when you were auditioning. Nowadays you have to go into a room and there's a tiny little room like the one we're in now and there's 40 auditions and a million sides. What was auditioning like when you were first starting out?

[16:32] Harvey Evans: Well, first of all, there weren't so many people, which eliminates that long wait that you have to go sign up at 5 in the morning and all that. I don't know. I haven't auditioned in years, so I don't really know. But also, you auditioned on a stage, which is a lot easier, I think. It's not in a room; it's on a stage and you can bring your bigness or whatever it is to that stage and they can see you on a stage. It very seldom happens anymore, but it was easier to audition then.

[17:10] Harvey Evans: And they might have been one of five instead of one of 30 or one of 50. And dance calls, were they held on the stage? Like we see in A Chorus Line, you know, like the movie or something?

[17:20] Robert W. Schneider: Yes.

[17:24] Harvey Evans: Yeah, but there weren't 30,000 exactly. And then was Fosse running the audition or was he just sitting in the back?

[17:29] Harvey Evans: No, no, he would run the audition. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, George Abbott would—we wouldn't have listened to George, but we just didn't care for George. And he gave line readings, right? He's known for that. Yeah, and suddenly you're studying acting and the director's telling you to do a line reading and you go, well, wait a minute. That's not what I've been learning in my school.

[18:07] Harvey Evans: So, I mean, even then I feel like he was perpetually old, but he wasn't mean; he was just sort of not there. And on the movie of Pajama Game, I don't know what he did; he got paid for it, but he was just around all the time. In New Girl in Town, at least he was there; he didn't quite know what to do with that project because it was Anna Christie to music, you know? It was strange.

[18:40] Harvey Evans: What was your go-to audition song?

[18:44] Robert W. Schneider: I—

[18:45] Harvey Evans: I don't remember; it was so long ago. But the one I used to do for like Follies and stuff was "After Today" from Dr. Doolittle. Oh, I don't know why I chose that. And then I would do "Tonight at 8" as a medley with "Tonight at 8." I would mix it up with "9 o'clock" from— but I would use "8 o'clock." So I sang most of the song about 8 o'clock, and then when it got to "at 9 o'clock," she said "9 o'clock," I would change it to "8."

[19:36] Harvey Evans: But I think my favorite audition that worked was for Annie Warbucks, the sequel. Yeah, yeah. Marty said, "Sing something funny," and it was for the butler. It was a little tiny role. "Sing something funny." So I thought, what's funny? What's funny? What's funny? I know! I'll sing "I Don't Remember Christmas," but I'll sing it to you instead of you. I'll sing it to you, my butler friend that I'm firing. So every time I got to "you really," Marty would start laughing.

[20:19] Harvey Evans: "I Don't Remember Christmas" and "I Don't Remember You." See, that is thinking outside the box for a comedy. And did you meet Martin Charnin when you were doing West Side Story?

[20:28] Robert W. Schneider: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, still there. So what was it like going into West Side Story?

[20:34] Harvey Evans: Oh, scarier than hell. Yeah. Oh my god. I had two weeks, and I think I was the first total—there had been swings that had gotten the job, but I think I was the total first replacement. And they gave me a little ceremony before I went in, and it was very scary. It had already been going on; they'd already gone through their crazy rehearsals that we've heard a lot about because we've interviewed a lot of them. And then you have—replacing is not the easiest job. I mean, it really—oh, it's a terrible job because you have to fit into—even though you know the moves, you have to please everyone, you know, and you'd—you know, no.

[21:26] Harvey Evans: So West Side, that's especially—there's Jerry Robbins. You want to please more than anybody, right? So that was rough, my transition into West Side Story. Did it calm down and I became a part of the group and all of that?

[21:44] Robert W. Schneider: Yeah. What was it like working with Jerry Robbins? What did you admire about him so much?

[21:50] Harvey Evans: The fact that he—which is also what you don't admire about him—but the fact that he was never satisfied with his own work. And that made him difficult with other people because he would expect it sometimes to see it, and it wasn't very good what he saw. And he never settled, and so you never settled. So the reason people get—you know, he did scream at people was because I think he felt that they were letting him down. That happened, I think, with—well, Russ Tamblyn was a movie star already, so let's face that. Yeah, and Michael Kidd camouflaged him in Seven Brides so brilliantly that everybody thought he was a dancer, and he wasn't; he was a gymnast. And so he had trouble with Jerry Robbins' choreography. He also didn't want to come to ballet class at 8 in the morning, you know, because Jerry would run class.

[23:02] Harvey Evans: Oh yeah, Jerry taught class most of the time. I was lucky because both Bob Fosse and Jerry Robbins mentored me, right? Essentially your mentors, but also dance teachers, really?

[23:14] Harvey Evans: I mean, yeah, and Jerry took me aside many times and explained what a step meant and all that, and even then I knew how lucky I was to have that happen. Yeah, it wouldn't happen now, right?

[23:31] Robert W. Schneider: What would you say are the major differences between Mr. Fosse and Mr. Robbins?

[23:38] Harvey Evans: Well, Mr. Robbins—um, one better watch out here—Mr. Fosse had a limited amount of steps, and he knew that, and he always said, "I have a limited amount of steps," which meant he also had a limited amount of choreography. Jerry just took whatever the property was and said, "Okay, now we're gonna do it this way." And so that's why Fiddler is different than Dances at a Gathering or all his stuff is different because he didn't have a style. He put the style of the show or the ballet into his style, and Fosse didn't.

[24:31] Harvey Evans: Very well. But how are they similar?

[24:34] Robert W. Schneider: They're—

[24:36] Harvey Evans: All based on Jack.

[24:42] Harvey Evans: Asymmetric, especially Fosse. Oh, yeah, and that was Gwen to her influence, right? Because she danced with Jack, right? I mean, oh, yeah. Yeah, Jack's assist. That's right. So let's go back to West Side Story. If we made the film version of West Side Story, how did that come into you?

[25:00] Harvey Evans: I don't know. We all auditioned; everybody that did the show, I think, got an audition for the movie. And I got a callback to come in to riff. I came in and did riff, and then I got another callback, just a general audition. And I had gone into Gypsy at that point, and everybody said, "You know you left West Side Story. That's a blow to you. Then now you're gonna leave Gypsy to do the movie of West Side," and they said, "You're never gonna work for Jerry." But I said, "But I'm gonna work for Jerry through it. This is the third time. So what's your point here? I'm here." Yeah, and he took me out of Gypsy and, well, I did the movie. Gypsy was with Ethel Merman. Yeah, still in it. Yeah. Yeah, that must have been wild to share the stage with—well, I got.

[26:07] Harvey Evans: I don't think I'm ever supposed to talk about this because there was maybe going to be a lawsuit or something, but Gypsy, Paul Wallace and I got real close to each getting it. He got it, but they were ready to fire him out of town when Arthur Lawrence gets a hate on for somebody. We've heard that. He didn't care for Paul so much. I thought maybe they were going to replace Paul before he came in. They didn't. First of all, the number started working for Gypsy. It wound up being Gypsy's number instead of Tulsa's number because you watched her and she was so pathetically little girlish. Paul started dating Ethel Merman's daughter. But then what happened was when I got West Side Story, Ruthie Mitchell said, we're going to put you on because Paul is really losing his voice and we don't want to have to have no cover here when you leave.

So we're going to let you do three weeks. So I got to do Tulsa for three weeks with Merman. So what is it like sharing a stage with her? Well, I was in love with her. I thought she was fantastic. People would say, oh, she's marking the show. And I thought, she's not marking the show. I watched her cry every night. I just loved her. Because I did West Side and Ruthie Mitchell and Lo Harden were the stage managers of that, I got to go into their room every night. That was my first stop when I came through the stage door to go into the stage manager's room. And Ethel would come in and tell us the news of the day and what really two or three things. I've said this before, I hope I am repeating. But first of all, she found out she came in and she went, I just heard Tab Hunter's gay.

Well, that made us all laugh a lot. And then she, Billie Holiday died and she went to Billie Holiday's funeral. And then she went to see Lena Horne at the Waldorf and she said, you know, we forget how beautiful she is and how well she sings, but she sang great. So that's special. She could admire another broad. Now to go back for a second, did you leave West Side Story on stage to go do Redhead? Redhead is one of my favorite musicals. I love how much you love it. And it just it doesn't get done anymore. It just doesn't get done anymore. So can you share some experiences about what it was like working on Redhead? There's no Gwen Verdon anymore. There it is. That's totally it. I think there are capable dancers that are capable singers.

They are capable personalities, but they're not all nobody allows them to be all three. And one of my friends said the trick to working in show business now is be mediocre, because if you're too good, you're going to scare the people and they're not going to hire you. And if you're not that good, you won't get the job. So I think it's because there's no Gwen. It wasn't the greatest show in the world either. So you did the movie of West Side Story. Yes. It's a huge hit. Yes. Incredibly huge. Yeah. What is that like seeing your face 50 feet high on the screen? Well, we didn't know. First of all, they kept telling us we don't know if this movie is going to work or not. Now we think it might be an arthouse movie.

So so don't don't don't go around telling your friend you're in the best movie ever, because we just don't know. Who was this, the studio or? Yeah, the studio. Everyone there. Maybe not Jerry. It's an arthouse film. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we finally saw a preview at Grauman's, it was 80 feet tall. I mean, we were 80 feet tall on the screen and it was a shock because we were you in it. What was your name in the mouthpiece? OK. Oh, yeah, I remember it. Well, your guitar and on stage. That's just I was curious. Also did the movie of Mary Poppins. Yeah. Your chimney sweep. Your chimney sweep. What was it like working for the Disney Corporation? Well, I was working for the at that point that Disney was not cheap like it is now.

Yeah. And you didn't have to worry about anything. And as a job, it was lovely. Now, that was mainly because it was Mark Bro and Dee Dee Wood who were two of the loveliest people you've ever known. And also Disney. I had just come from MGM from Silk Stockings or something where MGM was a little prison like Disney was flowers and landscape and and they only charged you what the meal cost them and the commissary. And I know he was a bircher and I know he didn't like blacks or Jews or gays or whatever, but it was a joy to work for him. And he would come back on his little golf cart and bring like hella head of Hopper and Luella Parsons and Charles Lott and people like that back because we did we took the job not knowing it was other than another movie job.

It was a gig. Yeah, it was a gig. And when Dee Dee approached me, I said, Dee Dee, I'm acting. I'm doing something at CBS and I'd rather just keep acting. And she said, well, okay, but Burt Michaels and she named a whole list of my favorite dancers on the West Coast. And I thought, okay, you got me. Here we go. You know, you know, why did you not move to the West Coast? Yeah. I thought it was not a it would be a dumb move, but I don't know why I thought that I loved it out there. And you seem to be going back and forth a lot. No, I stayed out there. I did a lot a lot of dancing on television and stuff like that. But I don't I don't know why I never thought of moving back. And the reason I did move back was because Herb Ross offered Tucker and I Anyone Can Whistle.

Good transition. Well done. Thank you, Harvey. I'm talking so much. No, it's delicious. So Anyone Can Whistle. Nine performances? I think so. Yeah. Well, we never Tucker and I never assumed it would be anything but a major hit right after Gypsy and all the West Side and all the other stuff. So when when he said, you want to do that? We went, oh, my God, yes. And we lived in Gene Gavin's dumpy apartment. And so rehearsals and fell in love with the property. Did you know everybody that there was only one person and he was a soap opera guy who who didn't seem to me that they would have laid under a subway for that show? Really? Yeah, we all we all wished it the best. And and even though there were moments with Angela where they were going to get rid of her and write a song.

Yeah. And then people died. Everybody started dying. And like in the show. Yeah. Oh, Henry Lask. Henry Lasko died. And then Tucker fell in the pit one night. What? And then because he fell in the pit, a musician had a heart attack and died the next day. I never knew any of this. Yeah. Oh, Anyone Can Whistle was throught with. Is that the word? Sure. With problems. I mean, I think I always say we we never drank as much as we did at the Variety Club and any show I've ever been in of Anyone Can Whistle because we wanted to succeed so badly. And we sort of knew it wouldn't. What was it about that was so special that made you wanted to succeed? Especially it was it was ahead of its time and it said things that hadn't been said before.

Yeah. And although in reality, it was ahead of its time, but three months later, it was behind its time. It's funny. It's funny how I don't quite understand. And then it was confusing for the audience. And it was mean, sort of. You know, it had its problems with Angela. She wanted to play it a certain way and they wanted her to be a cream puff and she had just come off Manchurian Candidate and the other one all fall down and she wanted to be nice in it. And they didn't want that. They wanted the comedy, mean comedy. And she finally went back to it accidentally. How it happened, it seemed my recollection is that Henry Lesko did have a heart attack and he couldn't perform. So the understudy was put on and that afternoon we walked in and Arthur said, the understudy is going to go on tonight.

We're going to rehearse the understudy. Well, Angela said her first line. Well, where's your line? He didn't know. He didn't know. He didn't know one line, I don't think. And so after about five lines, Angela started laughing. Then Arthur started laughing and the two of them sort of broke the ice that way. Really? Yeah. Now that's another Rashomon story where you think that really happened. But I know that they were going to fire Angela. I mean, I was privy to some of that. Do they do that thing where there's another actress coming in to watch the show? Oh, Nancy Walker. They had Nancy Walker in the third row. Very visible for all of us. I know. That's so wild. They used to do that. Now, when you were out of town, I think you were out of town in Philly with that.

Arthur Lawrence kept telling you, Philly audiences aren't going to get it, but New York audiences will. Don't worry. That's exactly what he'd say. He said, you know, we'll take New York, but we won't take Philly. And then people used to, once Harry Gardner was taking his bow and somebody in the, some man in the first row stood up and gave him the finger. Oh, my gosh. Wait, what? Oh, no. He didn't give him the finger. He gave him a thumbs down. So on Harry's bow, he gave him the finger. It's a very combative theater. That's incredible. That first act was combative because the theater rows came on and we were the audience and we laughed at the real audience. Now, that's hard to do. Hard to take for an audience. Yeah. Really hard imagery. That's bold. Very bold. And then you were in the.

[39:09] Harvey Evans: Original production of HELLO, DOLLY!

[39:12] Harvey Evans: No, I was in THE ROAD COMPANY.

[39:14] Harvey Evans: Oh, sorry, in THE ROAD COMPANY.

[39:15] Harvey Evans: Yeah.

[39:15] Kevin David Thomas: But eventually you made your way to New York. Is that correct with it or no?

[39:18] Harvey Evans: Yeah, you were on the road with Carol.

[39:20] Harvey Evans: I spent a year with Carol.

[39:22] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[39:23] Harvey Evans: And then Eve Arden came in, and that was wonderful. And then maybe a year later, they needed a Barnaby, and they called and said, would you do it? And fortunately, my friend Will McKenzie, who lives on the West Coast now, we're the best of friends, and we were the Cornelius and Barnaby. And we couldn't, as far as I'm concerned, there couldn't have been a better association.

[39:55] Kevin David Thomas: It's like dynamic, yeah. Now, I have to ask about this, because I think this is so fascinating. You were doing so many musicals, and then OUR TOWN comes into your orbit. And very quickly, if you don't mind, I'd like to review some of the people that were in the cast with you. Ed Begley, John Fiedler, Henry Fonda, Margaret Hamilton, Mildred Natwick, John Randolph. This was a company. This was a real, and you're George. I mean, and I was scared to death.

[40:25] Harvey Evans: I would have been too. How does this happen?

[40:29] Harvey Evans: I did a screen test for Dalton Trumbo for JOHNNY GOT HIS GUN. I don't know if you know the book or the movie. Do you know Dalton Trumbo?

[40:45] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[40:46] Harvey Evans: Okay. Well, he was an idol because he was blacklisted and all that. And for some reason, Donald Driver got a hold of my screen test and called me and said, you're not going to believe this, but you don't have to audition. I've seen your screen test, and I want you to play George. And of course, I was thrilled. And then I was petrified. I mean, that first day, I just wanted to get everybody's autograph. But I learned a lot from Fonda.

[41:25] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah.

[41:28] Harvey Evans: He was the stage manager.

[41:30] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. He cut me down. Well, no, I wouldn't say half, but he took away a lot of my extra stuff that I didn't need to do. Now, if you watch his movies, you will see his work. If you zero in on just his work, he's so minimal. And he's so believable that he got me to do sort of a Fonda performance with it.

[42:00] Kevin David Thomas: What a great mentor.

[42:02] Harvey Evans: Yeah. You know what I mean?

[42:03] Harvey Evans: Yeah, it was a lovely production. And we were sorry it never happened. It was when everybody was naked on Broadway, you know, Noel Coward with the naked people and this and that. And the critic for the Times came out and said, I don't like this play. So we fought up against an uphill thing. Otherwise, we would have been in the sensation of Broadway that season. And it's a shame because somebody came along afterwards and Robbie Benson was in it and Hal Holbrook, I guess, I don't know. And it got televised and it was not nearly as good as ours.

[42:54] Kevin David Thomas: Just timing. I mean, it was a different time.

[42:57] Harvey Evans: And we went to the West Coast. We were booked a certain amount of time. And then during that time, the audience caught on to it. But it was the same with West Side too. They booked it somewhere else. And then it suddenly picked up business. And we had to go to the that's why I didn't go to the West Coast with West Side. But this I did. And it's a shame because had we stayed on Broadway, we could have run a lot longer.

[43:29] Kevin David Thomas: Was yours televised? Was your Our Town filmed or anything?

[43:32] Harvey Evans: Nothing. Nothing.

[43:33] Kevin David Thomas: So it just disappeared.

[43:34] Harvey Evans: Nothing. Just disappeared.

[43:36] Kevin David Thomas: Besides Henry Fonda, what was it like working with, let's say, Mildred Natwick?

[43:43] Harvey Evans: Oh, OK. So there's a scene in Our Town, a surreal scene where we're both at the wedding, but we're really not at the wedding. And it's very confusing and it's very hard to work out. And so one night on Broadway, we're doing this scene and she goes, you're upstaging me. You know, what could be worse? So I, at intermission, I go to her room and I said, Millie, I'm so sorry. What happened was a light was blocking the was I was standing in front of and it was blocking her light to get on her face. So I moved upstage.

[44:36] Harvey Evans: She could be seen. But that means that she's I'm upstaging her. And anyhow, I said, I'm so sorry. And she went, oh, honey, I was kidding. And then she said, I never knew what that scene meant anyhow. And I said, neither did I. Oh, my God.

[45:00] Kevin David Thomas: When you had worked with Hal Prince previously, it was as a producer. He's your producer. And now he's going to be your director and Follies director and producer, I should say, and Follies. So how does Follies come around for you?

[45:13] Harvey Evans: I got a call to audition and I came I was in California and I came back and I auditioned and they said. It's yours.

[45:23] Kevin David Thomas: So what were rehearsals like? This is such a seminal piece.

[45:27] Harvey Evans: Well, rehearsals were with Michael Bennett now. Rehearsals were so scattered and so episodic that you didn't know what the book was even. And you just did it. You just did what you were told and then hoping it would all fit together.

[45:50] Kevin David Thomas: And when did that moment was there a seminal moment where you thought, oh, my gosh, no, we got this?

[45:55] Harvey Evans: No, there wasn't. Actually, it was little by little by little. And then we heard Yvonne saying, I'm still here. And Fifi couldn't remember her lines ever. There's a funny thing. Ethel Chate and Fifi were always competitive. And one time we were called into rehearsal and there was no seat for Fifi.

[46:24] Harvey Evans: Wow.

[46:26] Kevin David Thomas: And so Ethel looked around and she went, Squat-A-Voo, Fifi.

[46:37] Harvey Evans: Squat-A-Voo. Gene Nelson, you were supposed to be a young Gene Nelson, right? So tell us about working with Gene Nelson.

[46:45] Harvey Evans: Well, we were told to absorb as much of as the older people as we could so we could be a little bit like them. And Gene Nelson was one of my favorite movie star dancers on an equal with Gene Kelly. And so it was a dream at first. And then when I found out he was just a normal guy, it was even better.

[47:16] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[47:17] Harvey Evans: And I wouldn't say we bonded, but we were pretty close, pretty tight.

[47:27] Kevin David Thomas: What was the audience reaction like?

[47:29] Harvey Evans: Oh, they hated it.

[47:32] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God, all through the run, they left in rows.

[47:38] Harvey Evans: How do you keep your enthusiasm up when you're seeing people walking out? Because you know that it's a project that enough good people had told us that this is exceptional. And we knew that the material was, the trouble was it was so episodic that you didn't feel like you were really part of it. You were a little bit of a part of it, but all we did were our numbers and that was just about it. You come on, you do your thing and then out you go. And most of the people were like that too. The older people, they'd come on and do their number and go.

[48:10] Harvey Evans: So we knew we had something special, but we didn't know where it would take us or what happened or whether we'd run or not.

[48:28] Kevin David Thomas: Are you surprised by how beloved the show is now?

[48:32] Harvey Evans: Yes, of course.

[48:34] Kevin David Thomas: Do you go and see subsequent productions of it?

[48:36] Harvey Evans: I know you directed them, right?

[48:38] Harvey Evans: I directed some and I played Buddy in some. And because I've done that, I don't care to see it anymore. I've had it. I'm follies out. I know line. I mean, it's like now I know line readings. But that's one of the troubles with being older is that I don't want to see anyone else do gypsy because Ethel Merman's line readings are in my head and none of them are as good as hers. The same with follies. No one will ever top Dorothy Collins. So I don't go see the follies much.

[49:27] Kevin David Thomas: Who did La Cage on the Road for quite some time?

[49:30] Harvey Evans: I think about a year.

[49:31] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. And who was your George opposite you?

[49:34] Harvey Evans: Larry.

[49:35] Harvey Evans: Larry Kert.

[49:37] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I forgot to explain all that.

[49:40] Harvey Evans: Yeah, that was wonderful because Larry, since West Side Story, has been the leader of our little group, which consisted of Marty Jarnan and Jeannie Jarnan and Alan Johnson and a whole lot of good people. Since then, we've all fallen apart or gotten Alzheimer's or whatever. But Larry was our leader and we listened to him and he was extremely funny to us.

[50:09] Harvey Evans: Now, to other people, he was a little brazen and a little bit snotty, but we understood him so well. So when this job came along and I knew he was sick with AIDS, I thought, this is perfect. I get to be with Larry for a year. Does it scare me? I don't care. I just get to be with Larry. And he was still strong and able to do a brilliant job. As we went on, he got a little bit weaker and a little bit, but that was how Larry Kert came.

[51:02] Harvey Evans: In fact, well, Leroy and I always share parts. You know, he does it there, I'll do it here. Applause. And we were at Fritz and Barry's for a party and Leroy said, well, you know, Fritz, I can't really do that last company because I have to do Lorelei or something and I can't do it. And jokingly, I said, well, then I'll do it. I do everything you do anyhow. And Fritz went, oh, okay. And two weeks later, I get this phone call saying, we've set an audition up for you for Arthur. And I said, no, no, no. I was kidding. I was kidding, please. And it was too late to get out of it.

[51:45] Harvey Evans: And so when I went in, they put, oh my God, they spent three hours making you up and putting you in a dress and all that. And it had nothing, absolutely nothing about being gay or anything. It was only that there was another human being in that mirror besides me.

[52:06] Harvey Evans: That's right. And I thought, well, this is what people work for all their lives.

[52:12] Kevin David Thomas: I wanted to jump back for a second, if I may, and that is, on Follies, you worked with Michael Bennett. So what was it like working with Michael Bennett?

[52:57] Harvey Evans: Well, we knew he was going to be a genius. And we stayed clear of, we meaning maybe Kurt Peterson and I and Marty Rolfe, Virginia was out there doing her own thing. But we, because Arthur, because Hal and Michael were at each other every minute on that show about how they each wanted to make it work and how each had a different approach. Michael wanted more jokes and he wanted a crystal ball and Hal just wanted more words. Anyhow, we stayed away from any conflict we had to get into, or did get into. We didn't get into it because we stayed away from it. So I never really got to, say, be in Michael's camp or be in Hal's camp. I tried to be in both camps.

[54:12] Kevin David Thomas: Right. Switzerland.

[54:14] Harvey Evans: Switzerland, yeah. And that same happened to me when I came into Gypsy. Sondra Church and Mermin were having a feud and Sondra grabbed me and I became part of Sondra Church's little group.

[54:26] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, it's interesting how the territory, the dynamics of that all works. Go ahead.

[54:33] Harvey Evans: I'm just going to say the word sextet. What was sextet? With Dixie Carter.

[54:38] Kevin David Thomas: It was fabulous.

[54:39] Harvey Evans: Yeah?

[54:40] Kevin David Thomas: Well, as a piece of theater, it probably stunk. But five out of six of us, not including Mary Small, bonded like crazy. Dixie was fantastic. She and Jerry Lanning had an affair during it. We got the director fired, Jared Barkley.

[55:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. What was it? Go ahead, because...

[55:10] Harvey Evans: He wasn't coming around. He thought he could choreograph it and he just wasn't coming around. But otherwise, because Jerry Lanning was like our leader, we had great fun.

[55:29] Kevin David Thomas: What was it? Was it a book musical?

[55:31] Harvey Evans: It was a book musical about three couples. A gay couple, me and Bobbie Spencer, and Dixie and Jerry, and Mary Small and her boyfriend, whatever.

[55:50] Kevin David Thomas: John Newton.

[55:51] Harvey Evans: Was it?

[55:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[55:53] Harvey Evans: According to this, it's John Newton, right?

[55:56] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[55:57] Harvey Evans: Not a hit.

[55:58] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, not a hit at all. No, no. But we had one of the old-time stage managers, Mae Muth, I think her name was.

[56:10] Harvey Evans: Yeah. Wow.

[56:11] Kevin David Thomas: And she was like, Mammy, oh, oh.

[56:14] Harvey Evans: She, we used to love her like you couldn't believe. I wish we would have run longer because Dixie, and Dixie was married to sort of a gangster, a semi-gangster. And we thought, well, we're all going to die.

[56:32] Kevin David Thomas: Right, she's having an affair.

[56:33] Harvey Evans: Yeah, she's having an affair with Jerry Lanning, and he's married, and we're all going to be murdered.

[56:39] Kevin David Thomas: Instead, you just had the critics instead.

[56:42] Kevin David Thomas: So let's talk then about Barnum. Yeah. So you're offered a standby to Jim Dale, is that correct?

[56:52] Harvey Evans: Yes, that's correct.

[56:53] Kevin David Thomas: And you were eager to be, you were okay being a standby?

[56:57] Harvey Evans: I had to talk myself into it. My dad had just died, and I knew that an awful amount of work had gone into it. And I was aware that the first couple of days I could tell that most of the people were circus people in it. And how do I put it? They didn't really know much about me, and they didn't know I had done some Broadway stuff.

[57:30] Kevin David Thomas: You've been around.

[57:31] Harvey Evans: And Glenn didn't help that situation at all.

[57:34] Kevin David Thomas: Glenn Close.

[57:36] Kevin David Thomas: Now, when I did Sunset with her, it was the total opposite. We fell in love with each other. But on Barnum, it was rough, because she didn't want me, she wanted Jim to do every performance, and she'd get jealous if like one time I brought Liza Minnelli backstage. Oh wait, I'm talking about Glenn. I shouldn't.

[58:00] Harvey Evans: No, you're all right.

[58:02] Kevin David Thomas: I like her.

[58:04] Kevin David Thomas: How did you know Liza, by the way? How did you guys become friends?

[58:09] Harvey Evans: I did six Judy Garland shows.

[58:13] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[58:15] Harvey Evans: Well, I danced on six Judy Garland shows.

[58:19] Kevin David Thomas: How did we not talk about that yet? That's...wow.

[58:24] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, six Judy Garland shows. But I met Liza in New York, actually, when she was doing Best Foot Forward. But we, I think she and I did a couple of Garlands together, the Christmas show mainly.

[58:38] Kevin David Thomas: You guys clearly hit it off.

[58:41] Harvey Evans: Yeah, and I was there. We sat together for the Battle Hymn of the Republic. And yeah, I did six of them. I did a couple of those Bing Crosby specials.

[58:57] Kevin David Thomas: I think it's pretty awesome that you started out, you were doing New Girl in Town, these early Fosse shows, and then fast forward past the 80s, you're doing Scarlet Pimpernel, Sunset Boulevard, like this sort of like new version of musical theater. I think it's kind of awesome and amazing that your career flowed with the times as the evolution of the art form.

[59:21] Harvey Evans: Old age to conceptual musicals.

[59:22] Kevin David Thomas: You literally traveled through time with musical theater.

[59:25] Harvey Evans: I think that that was dictated because that was all that was around.

[59:29] Kevin David Thomas: Sure, sure.

[59:30] Harvey Evans: It's funny though, I can't remember one thing from Scarlet Pimpernel, but I can do all of West Side Story for you.

[59:39] Kevin David Thomas: I love that.

[59:43] Kevin David Thomas: Doug still started singing over the bridge and I thought, what is he singing?

[59:50] Harvey Evans: Yep, that's what I thought when I saw it too.

[59:53] Kevin David Thomas: Then I saw Sunset again with Glenn and I thought, I swung that show, I did every single one of these lyrics.

[1:00:04] Harvey Evans: Right, you watched it.

[1:00:05] Kevin David Thomas: I don't remember any of them.

[1:00:09] Kevin David Thomas: Tell Shelby what you're doing.

[1:00:13] Harvey Evans: I prefer the Golden Age too, my friend.

[1:00:17] Kevin David Thomas: But also, in terms of movie musicals, you were also in Enchanted, is that correct?

[1:00:24] Harvey Evans: Uh-huh, and Silk Stockings, and The Girl Most Likely for Gower.

[1:00:31] Kevin David Thomas: Oh yeah, you worked with Gower Champion. We didn't even get a chance to discuss that yet. So what was it like working for Gower Champion?

[1:00:37] Harvey Evans: Well, I love Gower. He gave me a private audition for that movie, for The Girl Most Likely.

[1:00:45] Kevin David Thomas: Oh!

[1:00:47] Harvey Evans: What happened was that Tucker Smith and I, who I talked about, we both got in Damn Yankees at the same time. And we probably were bad, but I think we used to try and outsell each other.

[1:01:01] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, sure.

[1:01:03] Harvey Evans: You were young, you were young. And anyhow, it was a very good night for me, I remember. And Gower was in the audience. This is in L.A. And it's true, I just worshipped Martin Gower. And I said to him how much I loved him. And he said, well, I enjoyed you too very much. And I said, thank you. And I read in the variety out there that he was casting this musical. And I wrote him and said, I met you backstage. Is there any chance I could audition for you? And he wrote me back and said, yeah, come in. And I had a private audition. And then got to be in this, that was my first big movie thing. Jane Powell.

[1:01:55] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my goodness.

[1:01:57] Harvey Evans: It's not bad.

[1:01:59] Kevin David Thomas: It's so wonderful. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming in and sharing your memories with us.

[1:02:05] Harvey Evans: Did we do okay?

[1:02:07] Kevin David Thomas: We did great.

[1:02:09] Harvey Evans: We did really good. Actually, I'm going to ask you one last question if I can. What advice would you give to yourself that's just getting off the bus from Ohio and coming into New York City back in the 1950s? What do you know now that you wish you had known then?

[1:02:25] Harvey Evans: I think I knew more then. I don't know. I always thought this. So it's not a new thought. But you really have to love the business more than you love yourself in the business. Because it doesn't ever work out the way you want it to. And that's how you can deal with the disappointments. Just keep working. I've said that before. My name's been above the title. It's been below the title. But the point is, usually I've kept working. And you can find as much value in the ensemble as you can in a lead.

[1:03:21] Kevin David Thomas: Good day, Mr. Thomas.

[1:03:23] Harvey Evans: Good day, Mr. Schneider.

[1:03:25] Kevin David Thomas: Today's event, we finally hit over 100 iTunes reviews, and we'd like to thank each and every person who took the time to do so.

[1:03:31] Harvey Evans: Huzzah! Now we want to climb those charts even faster. And that's where you, lovely folks, who have not yet rated us, come in.

[1:03:39] Kevin David Thomas: The process is very simple. On your podcast app, tap the Search tab. Enter our name behind the curtain, Broadway's Living Legends. Tap the Search key. Tap our beautiful logo. Tap the reviews. Then tap your way into our hearts.

[1:03:55] Harvey Evans: Tap your troubles away.

[1:03:57] Kevin David Thomas: It's nice, Rob. Once you are there, you can rate us from one star to five stars. Think of one star as Hervé Villachez.

[1:04:03] Harvey Evans: Hervé Villachez.

[1:04:07] Kevin David Thomas: Oh dear, I walked right into that one. Think of one star as Hervé Villachez. And Ima Sumac in Sideshow. And five stars as front row seats to the opening night of Gypsy.

[1:04:17] Harvey Evans: Buddy kiss me.

[1:04:19] Kevin David Thomas: Get a kiss me for the first time. I thought that was pretty good.

[1:04:23] Harvey Evans: We want to get good reviews, Rob.

[1:04:25] Kevin David Thomas: We want to get good reviews.

[1:04:27] Harvey Evans: Excuse me, Arthur Lawrence. Excuse me for trying to liven up our commercial ads a little bit.

[1:04:31] Kevin David Thomas: Eight minute long commercial.

[1:04:33] Harvey Evans: It's an infomercial at this point. I'm going to be like that lady that sells you the copper pots.

[1:04:39] Kevin David Thomas: Look at this. You can put 400 pounds of manure in it and it slides right out. Then you can make an omelet.

[1:04:47] Harvey Evans: You got another line, Kevin.

[1:04:49] Kevin David Thomas: Plus you can leave a comment to let us know what you're liking.

[1:04:53] Harvey Evans: Plus you can leave a comment to let us know what you are liking or what you're not liking at this point or what guests you'd like to hear next.

[1:05:01] Kevin David Thomas: So head on over to iTunes and let us know what you think of our little show.

[1:05:05] Harvey Evans: Speaking of little, I'll tell you a story about Charles Lawson later.

[1:05:09] Kevin David Thomas: Thanks, guys.