This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[0:23] Kevin David Thomas: So, Kevin. Now I'd like to pose a question to our audience. Your wife suddenly mentioned this. So let me ask you all. She had suggested at some point that we change the favorite things theme song. So listeners, should we change it? And let me ask: should it be a whole new song entirely? Or should it be my favorite things, just a different internal? Oh, I kind of like the idea of maybe, uh, I mean, we can't even say it's like season one or two or three because we've literally done, uh, two episodes a week for the last two and a half. So who knows? So, but I think we could shake it up a little bit and we'll have a little, uh, a different version of, uh, so we're gonna keep my favorite things, but we're just gonna change who's singing my favorite things.

Maybe what do you guys think? Listeners, we're taking a poll. It's a democracy. Yes. Vote, and then we'll make our own decision. And if you have a favorite thing thing, yes, a favorite version of my favorite, then let us know, and maybe we'll use it.

[1:20] Robert W Schneider: Oh, we would love Kevin. Right. Change. I get scared of change. Change don't come eat all I'm asking for is change. I know. Mine was from Memphis. What was your change song for? New brain. Change the government, killed the maya. It's not Faya. How lies evaporate? Change the system that made us I don't want more hugs, just need money to buy more drugs. And if you folks pay, I'll go away. Mary Testa, that was my Mary Testa. Homeless woman singing about change. But get it, it? It's like Carolina change. You say you're talking about change in your pocket, but also life change, Rob. Change in your pocket, like a penny in my pocket. And then a little time, that penny in my pocket. See you guys, just give us a word, and we'll go on non sequiturs for hours. Imagine how much fun we what we have when the mics aren't rolling.

[2:16] Kevin David Thomas: I listen, I will say this. I always feel like we should do two shows. We should do this show. We should also keep on the microphones when we get into the room together beforehand. Because that's when Kevin and I gossip. And that's the stuff we can't put on the air. As you say we have they say, as I say on RuPaul's Drag Race, which is so good. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I have a story to tell you. Wait, what? You're gonna you're not gonna believe this, I swear to you, this is a true story.

[2:40] Robert W Schneider: What? I know that you watch Drag Race every week at a bar.

[2:46] Kevin David Thomas: All stars. Well, just you sometimes I watch with Robbie Rosell, our friend from the podcast, Robbie. But Robbie's out of town. He's in doing Lisa Erico's concert in London. So we're at yes, Bubba's on Ditmar's and Nestoria. Now wait, do you know someone who's there that was there hanging out with us?

[3:00] Robert W Schneider: I know someone who's there who watches you watching Drag Race and says your reactions are sometimes more interesting than the show.

[3:07] Kevin David Thomas: Wait, I swear to God. Wait, someone that's not my friends, like my wife and other like friends. So you guys, it's a small restaurant, um, in my neighborhood, and it's a great restaurant. And the guy, the kid who's the bartender there, he sort of started it to be RuPaul's Drag Race night. And so people, we all the TVs are turned on to it, and it's really fun to watch with a whole bunch of people because we all scream and yell.

[3:30] Robert W Schneider: And are you kidding me? I hear someone screams and yells louder than any of the other patrons.

[3:36] Kevin David Thomas: Not louder than everybody, but I definitely get wrapped up into it. It's one of my favorite television shows.

[3:41] Robert W Schneider: Okay. Uh, I'm just telling you, I just wanted you to know.

[3:44] Kevin David Thomas: Who is watching me? So a friend of mine, uh, who knows that we do the podcast and stuff, saw a photo of you pop up and goes, Oh my god. He's like, I know him. And I said, Oh yeah. I said, I said, have you guys met at some point? Like from one of my shows. He goes, No, no, no. He goes, I watch RuPaul's Drag Race every Thursday, and he goes, This guy is always at the bar, and he's always yelling and screaming the loudest at the television. He goes, This guy loves this show. And I said, That's my co-host Kevin. So he knows you.

[4:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. Oh, that's I don't know if I like being known for that, but that's really nice.

[4:18] Robert W Schneider: I think that's incredible. I thought that was so funny.

[4:21] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, listen, I'm a fan, I'm proud. It's good. It's yes. Listen, I will tell you, as a gay man, we appreciate straight allies like you. If you're not gonna love yourself, how are you gonna let everybody else? I mean, come on. So I usually don't watch, but I just, you know, I just worked with was Alexis Michelle, which is so cool. She's amazing. We did Broadway match game at 54 Below.

[4:41] Robert W Schneider: Oh, what a great idea.

[4:42] Kevin David Thomas: Or Snatch Game, I should say.

[4:45] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god.

[4:45] Kevin David Thomas: Which was not good this season. I watched it this season. I watched it. The only good part was Paul Inn, which is Ben to L Ben Le Creme, which is the only one.

[4:52] Robert W Schneider: Oh, the Paul Inn was really funny.

[4:53] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, that was that was about it.

[4:55] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, it was not a good one this year. And Kristen Chanowitz showed up.

[4:57] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, no, she played her, yeah.

[4:59] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, I only watched Drag Race for Snatch Game.

[5:02] Kevin David Thomas: Like I will find out the weekend.

[5:05] Robert W Schneider: I watch it.

[5:05] Kevin David Thomas: So we started that at 54 Below now.

[5:07] Robert W Schneider: I think that is so cool.

[5:08] Kevin David Thomas: I think that is so exciting. You and Robbie Rosell.

[5:10] Robert W Schneider: It was yeah, Robbie and I did it together, and our panel was, uh, uh, uh, George Salazar from Be More Chill, Jen Cody, who was hysterical. I cannot even tell you how funny Jen Cody was.

[5:22] Kevin David Thomas: I mean, like wetting my pants funny.

[5:25] Robert W Schneider: Um, Robbie Rosell, uh, uh, Julia Murney. Great, who was amazing, uh, Leroy Reims guard, the old guard. He told the most fabulous stories.

[5:36] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, he's the Charles Nelson Riley of the group.

[5:40] Robert W Schneider: He was, he was. And um, uh, Alexis Michelle, who was a sweetheart, and is a huge Broadway fan. I have an idea for Alexis Michelle for a musical I want to do.

[5:50] Kevin David Thomas: It's a revival of a musical. I want to ask the estate though if they're willing to let her do it. I'm very nervous. I don't even want to put it out there just yet.

[5:56] Robert W Schneider: Okay, but I'm percolating on it. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you off mic my idea for her.

[6:03] Kevin David Thomas: This is the show that I want to do with her.

[6:07] Robert W Schneider: Oh, he said it to me, and it's actually a really, really good idea.

[6:10] Kevin David Thomas: Isn't that good?

[6:11] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[6:11] Kevin David Thomas: Where she does one part of it with in out the drag and then one part in the drag.

[6:17] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, that would change the show.

[6:19] Kevin David Thomas: It would. That's fascinating.

[6:20] Robert W Schneider: But that's not a clear day you can see everybody.

[6:23] Kevin David Thomas: No, truly. And in that article just came up about how like do reviving older shows is tough because the gender roles and I thought that was a really interesting article about just the struggles that we are gonna have when we revive these shows from the 50s and 60s because our roles have evolved since, you know, women were just a sex object as they walked in the room.

[6:42] Robert W Schneider: And I was I would I didn't read the article fully, I was just glancing at the headline, but it was, it was you know, they're mentioning about Eliza Doolittle being molded by Henry Higgins, Billy Bigelow beating Julie Julie Jordan, let alone the Ziz in the, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[6:57] Kevin David Thomas: Well, some of those shows just don't need to be revived at all.

[7:01] Robert W Schneider: Still can't believe they did that with Vanessa Hudgens a couple years back.

[7:04] Kevin David Thomas: That was a bizarre choice.

[7:05] Robert W Schneider: Because I think she's very talented.

[7:07] Kevin David Thomas: She's lovely. I was like, this is just not the vehicle for it.

[7:11] Robert W Schneider: Uh-huh. I was talking to my musical theory.

[7:14] Kevin David Thomas: Sorry, I was talking to my musical theater students. They just had their final exam.

[7:17] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[7:17] Kevin David Thomas: And one of the things I always put, and I'm interested to hear what our listeners have to say because their essays blow me away. Their last essay question on their final is in the past few years, the musical theater is tackling subjects that were not, uh, once considered to even be comfortable for public discussion. So things is like we have mental illness and Next to Normal, we have, um, gay parents in Fun Home, we have social media and Dear Evan Hansen and suicide. What topics have that have not been covered by musical theater do you think are due for a discussion?

[8:00] Kevin David Thomas: So I'm always curious. If our listeners, what topics have not been discussed yet by musical theater that should be discussed by music?

[8:06] Robert W Schneider: And then and the answers that come back, the essays that they write are so amazing and so surprising.

[8:06] Robert W Schneider: I will say that like and I speaking of our students, you know, that generation, um, if there's anything that politics the last, mm, you know, two weeks has taught me, is that I have a whole newfound faith in the millennial generation that is not just distracted by, you know, the cell phone and all of that, but is it has a has a voice, a valid voice, and, uh, I think is, uh, we underestimate their, uh, what they're gonna contribute to, um, you know, our world.

[8:32] Kevin David Thomas: I'm really I'm so excited by seeing a whole new generation that are putting down their phone or actually, sorry, picking up their phones, really using it for good.

[8:43] Robert W Schneider: Yes, and the pressure and the speeches, and I thought that none of this was gonna change.

[8:49] Kevin David Thomas: I really didn't.

[8:49] Robert W Schneider: I know.

[8:50] Kevin David Thomas: I really did. A couple of years ago, I mean, I don't want to get no topic. Because we've talked because you were a poly sci major, and you always say that you're kind of more of a cynic.

[8:58] Robert W Schneider: You've said not to and not to talk, you know, not to put words in your mouth, but you would have said that before that you're yes, I like I like to say a realist.

[9:05] Kevin David Thomas: A real okay.

[9:06] Robert W Schneider: See, that's my cup hat full attitude. I just say that I'm a realist.

[9:10] Kevin David Thomas: I thought, not to get you know, too too more, but after Sandy Hook, I was like, if nothing is changing after Sandy Hook, nothing's gonna change at all.

[9:18] Robert W Schneider: And then the these these kids have really given me some hope.

[9:22] Kevin David Thomas: A lot of so you didn't know you're getting into a political debate, did you debate or political chat, did you today, friends?

[9:28] Robert W Schneider: Sorry.

[9:29] Kevin David Thomas: That's okay. But you know what? That's what's going on in this world.

[9:33] Robert W Schneider: And when I get upset and I get angry, I turn on my favorite thing.

[9:38] Kevin David Thomas: Don't worry. My favorite thing is probably the most boring one and the most useless one, but I have to talk about it.

[9:44] Robert W Schneider: Yours?

[9:45] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, it's like I mean, this is like the most nerdy of all nerdy favorite things, and I debated whether or not I wanted to say it, but I have to, because there are some listeners out there who are not just, you know, the peripheral listeners of shows, but who are one of us who love it, love it, love it. And you probably already have this book, but I'm I love this book so much. I was perusing it the other day. It's a reference book.

[10:07] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I love it.

[10:07] Kevin David Thomas: You know, I love a reference book.

[10:08] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, and you would think, really, you're gonna talk about a reference book.

[10:11] Kevin David Thomas: I'm trying to look on your shelf to see if I can see it.

[10:13] Robert W Schneider: I keep a lot of books under my sofa.

[10:14] Kevin David Thomas: That's probably where it is.

[10:15] Robert W Schneider: Um, I love this book.

[10:17] Kevin David Thomas: It is an author that I really want to get on the podcast because he's written a lot, because you know, we've got a couple theater book writers that are well known.

[10:23] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, you know, we've got our friend Peter Felicia, who we love, love, love later.

[10:26] Kevin David Thomas: Who love Ken Manabum, who would be of having dream of it.

[10:32] Robert W Schneider: Um, and then we have Steven Suskin.

[10:35] Kevin David Thomas: I love Steven Suskin's.

[10:36] Robert W Schneider: Great Steven Suskin, who is who has done.

[10:39] Kevin David Thomas: And this book.

[10:39] Robert W Schneider: I can only imagine the exhaustive research that this man must have done.

[10:44] Kevin David Thomas: Bless his family for letting him do all of the listening that he had to do in order to create the book that is called Show Tunes.

[10:51] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[10:52] Kevin David Thomas: Do you know this reference book?

[10:53] Robert W Schneider: I know it, and I own a copy.

[10:55] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, it's under the sofa.

[10:57] Robert W Schneider: It is like the nerdy of all nerdy musical theater books.

[10:59] Kevin David Thomas: It is, yes, a reference book.

[11:01] Robert W Schneider: It is, it has, it literally goes through all of the shows and composers of the last century.

[11:06] Kevin David Thomas: The published one I have is of year 2000.

[11:10] Robert W Schneider: I believe that there is one more version that's like more recent.

[11:13] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[11:13] Robert W Schneider: But I will just I'm just gonna speak on the one from 2000 because it's still valid because to me it's a more of a history book than anything, a reference book.

[11:19] Kevin David Thomas: If you need to know about Dear Evan Hansen, just go online, you can find stuff.

[11:22] Robert W Schneider: But for this, this is about the 900 slash 8,000 900 shows and 8,000 show tunes that he covers.

[11:30] Kevin David Thomas: And it not only is just like, oh, you know, I married an angel, this is 19, and this is who wrote it.

[11:35] Robert W Schneider: He lists the songs, he lists the songs that were recorded, lists the songs that may have been cut from the show, lists the songs that were cut out of town, lists um, and then he like does like a little commentary on it.

[11:48] Kevin David Thomas: So this man listened to every single one of these albums and is like, yes, this song is great, and this song was sung by so and so, and goes into like detail with reference numbers, so you can you know go to the back of the book and the indexes are what is really fun for those of us who like this kind of thing, you know, the facts, like it's like baseball cards, and you're like, Yes, um what were the 1940s?

[12:08] Robert W Schneider: And they list the shows from the 40s, the 50s, 60s, and beyond in order.

[12:12] Kevin David Thomas: And then the appendix has like um collaborator appendix.

[12:16] Robert W Schneider: He has the song title appendix, he has the bibliography, he has the lists of um uh lift list of the productions chronologically.

[12:24] Kevin David Thomas: Um I can't say enough about this book.

[12:26] Robert W Schneider: Then he just he lists shows by composer, so he'll talk about Larry Grossman and the shows that he wrote.

[12:32] Kevin David Thomas: He'll talk about you know Stephen Schwartz, which um, you know, it's funny because it's 2000, so we don't even have Wicked yet, which I find very interesting.

[12:39] Robert W Schneider: So you don't even know that Stephen Schwartz is going to give you that.

[12:41] Kevin David Thomas: Um I of course I love seeing guests that we've had, like Larry Grossman and Charles Strouse.

[12:45] Robert W Schneider: It always makes me happy when I think, oh my gosh, we got to talk to them.

[12:48] Kevin David Thomas: So, friends, if you want to listen to those interviews, go back uh down the podcast list and uh go down that rabbit hole.

[12:53] Robert W Schneider: Um, but uh is it is it the kind of book that um if you're on the the fringe of musical theater, are you gonna get this book and sit down and read it?

[13:00] Kevin David Thomas: No, probably not.

[13:01] Robert W Schneider: But it's a great reference for the actor who's trying to find new songs to put in your audition book, or it's a great reference just for the fan of musical theater that just wants to learn some other shows by you know a composer of a show that you love and you want to get some information about other Jerry Herman shows.

[13:16] Kevin David Thomas: I tell that to all my students.

[13:17] Robert W Schneider: I'm like, when they come in and like, I'm gonna sing maybe this time from Cabaret.

[13:21] Kevin David Thomas: I'm like, you know, Kander and Ebb wrote 17 other shows, I think.

[13:24] Robert W Schneider: Exactly.

[13:25] Kevin David Thomas: So, you know, this is a great place for students of musical theater, I agree with you, to start going down the list and seeing if there's anything for them, and also getting exposed to shows they might not have known.

[13:35] Robert W Schneider: Indeed.

[13:36] Kevin David Thomas: That's exactly right.

[13:37] Robert W Schneider: So I like it because I always learn something every single, every single time I pick it up.

[13:41] Kevin David Thomas: And yes, uh, you can Google stuff and online, but for Steven has done such a good job of organizing it and putting little commentary and little bits of information in there, and it's exhaustively researched.

[13:53] Robert W Schneider: So thank you, Steven, for a putting this book together, B, for doing all the research and giving it to us.

[13:59] Kevin David Thomas: Come on the show, Steven, we'd love to have you.

[14:01] Robert W Schneider: You know, you know he also wrote those opening nights on Broadway books.

[14:04] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yes.

[14:05] Robert W Schneider: Where they uh compile.

[14:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, with the uh with the blurbs of the reviews of the reviews.

[14:09] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[14:10] Kevin David Thomas: Maybe a good favorite thing in the future.

[14:11] Robert W Schneider: Oh, there's two of them.

[14:12] Kevin David Thomas: There's opening nights on Broadway and more opening nights on Broadway.

[14:16] Robert W Schneider: I love those books as well.

[14:17] Kevin David Thomas: And then you really get to feel like, oh, this is what it was like in 1962.

[14:21] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[14:22] Kevin David Thomas: In the theater climate, you know, at this time.

[14:24] Robert W Schneider: And that stuff isn't online.

[14:25] Kevin David Thomas: The fact that it's all compiled into one place.

[14:28] Robert W Schneider: Right.

[14:28] Kevin David Thomas: Is I mean, if you try to look up something now that's like from the New York Daily News 40 years ago, you can't find it.

[14:35] Robert W Schneider: It just takes the periphery magazines.

[14:37] Kevin David Thomas: You're right.

[14:37] Robert W Schneider: It takes the New York Times once, but not like, yes, you're not rare.

[14:41] Kevin David Thomas: Not Women's Daily, not the Women's Daily, whatever.

[14:44] Robert W Schneider: The Martin Gottfried, you know, Woman's Wear Daily.

[14:46] Kevin David Thomas: Exactly.

[14:46] Robert W Schneider: Women's Wear Daily.

[14:48] Kevin David Thomas: So my favorite thing is the reference book, Show Tunes by Steven Suskin.

[14:52] Robert W Schneider: Bet you didn't know that existed.

[14:54] Kevin David Thomas: Why are you so embarrassed, Kevin?

[14:55] Robert W Schneider: It's such a good reference.

[14:58] Kevin David Thomas: Because it is a reference book, and it's like saying, hey, go get Encyclopedia Britannica for fun.

[15:03] Robert W Schneider: But for me, it is fun.

[15:05] Kevin David Thomas: And I know that I we have some listeners out there who maybe are diehard fans like we are and actually have not looked at this book.

[15:10] Robert W Schneider: And when you do, you're gonna love it.

[15:12] Kevin David Thomas: Absolutely.

[15:13] Robert W Schneider: Absolutely.

[15:19] Kevin David Thomas: Maybe uh maybe it's higher than I think.

[15:21] Robert W Schneider: I think they're listening to us for this reason.

[15:23] Kevin David Thomas: I think I I don't think someone has just stumbled upon this podcast.

[15:27] Robert W Schneider: They're like, gee, man, why are they listening?

[15:29] Kevin David Thomas: Why are they talking about so much show tunes?

[15:31] Robert W Schneider: That's gay.

[15:34] Kevin David Thomas: What is this?

[15:35] Robert W Schneider: I love when you do your straight voice.

[15:39] Kevin David Thomas: Your pro voice.

[15:40] Robert W Schneider: Who's Nanette Fairberg ass?

[15:46] Kevin David Thomas: That was good.

[15:46] Robert W Schneider: She sleep with Trump.

[15:48] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my god.

[15:48] Robert W Schneider: Oh she was Stormy Daniels.

[15:51] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh.

[15:52] Robert W Schneider: So uh what's your favorite thing before that gets scared?

[15:55] Kevin David Thomas: Before we go back to political again.

[15:57] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[15:58] Kevin David Thomas: I don't vote, man.

[15:59] Robert W Schneider: What's the point?

[16:02] Kevin David Thomas: My girlfriend's father ran for city council.

[16:05] Robert W Schneider: Nope.

[16:06] Kevin David Thomas: But then he had to quit because he liked embezzled or something.

[16:10] Robert W Schneider: So now she lives in a condo next to my stepmom.

[16:14] Kevin David Thomas: Just it's very depressing.

[16:16] Robert W Schneider: It's a very depressing day.

[16:18] Kevin David Thomas: It's from those Bergman films from last week.

[16:20] Robert W Schneider: You're still sitting there.

[16:24] Kevin David Thomas: Mine is a musical.

[16:25] Robert W Schneider: Okay.

[16:25] Kevin David Thomas: Or a musical.

[16:27] Robert W Schneider: As we might say back in the old days.

[16:29] Kevin David Thomas: And I will tell you why I got inspired to talk about this musical.

[16:33] Robert W Schneider: Okay.

[16:34] Kevin David Thomas: I saw Encores, Hey, Look Me Over.

[16:38] Robert W Schneider: The 25th anniversary of City Center Encores.

[16:41] Kevin David Thomas: I wish I'd I was on vacation.

[16:43] Robert W Schneider: I was not able to see it.

[16:44] Kevin David Thomas: I didn't even ask you. How was vacation?

[16:45] Robert W Schneider: Oh, it was great.

[16:46] Kevin David Thomas: It was beautiful.

[16:47] Robert W Schneider: Paris, Amsterdam.

[16:48] Kevin David Thomas: It was a dream come true.

[16:49] Robert W Schneider: You brought me back a keychain.

[16:51] Kevin David Thomas: I brought you back a Paris Eiffel Tower keychain.

[16:53] Robert W Schneider: You were so sweet.

[16:53] Kevin David Thomas: And I already put it on my keys.

[16:55] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I love it.

[16:55] Kevin David Thomas: So every time I reach into my pocket and the Eiffel Tower stabs me, I'll be like, damn it, I was like, sometimes it's I had one in it.

[17:00] Robert W Schneider: I'm like, nah, it's not a great keychain.

[17:02] Kevin David Thomas: But it looks cute.

[17:03] Robert W Schneider: Thank you, Kevin.

[17:04] Kevin David Thomas: You're welcome.

[17:05] Robert W Schneider: Thank you for the gift.

[17:05] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, we had a great time.

[17:07] Robert W Schneider: Good.

[17:08] Kevin David Thomas: I'm so happy you guys had a good time.

[17:08] Robert W Schneider: And you deserved it.

[17:09] Kevin David Thomas: But we missed Hey Look Me Over.

[17:11] Robert W Schneider: You missed Hey Look Me Over.

[17:13] Kevin David Thomas: So Hey Look Me Over, for those of you that don't know.

[17:13] Robert W Schneider: Encores in New York is celebrating or celebrated its 25th anniversary this year.

[17:18] Kevin David Thomas: Can you imagine?

[17:18] Robert W Schneider: 25 years of don't yawn when I tell you how wonderful it is.

[17:21] Kevin David Thomas: I literally tell Kevin he's rubbing his eye going, scratching my eyes and yelling.

[17:25] Robert W Schneider: I'll tap.

[17:26] Kevin David Thomas: Do you want me to tap to make it more interesting?

[17:28] Robert W Schneider: Do a time step.

[17:30] Kevin David Thomas: And what they did was this was really fascinating.

[17:33] Robert W Schneider: They took eight musicals that Encores has not produced in its 25 years and gave us little samplings of each of them.

[17:41] Kevin David Thomas: Right, because like the fans of it are always like, why are they doing this and not doing Wildcat?

[17:47] Robert W Schneider: Okay, so let me perfect segue, by the way.

[17:51] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[17:51] Robert W Schneider: Um, so one of the things that they did was yeah, that people sit there and go, why aren't they doing this?

[17:55] Kevin David Thomas: I'm on Goldilocks, for God's sake, and I do, I do all the time.

[17:58] Robert W Schneider: I think we ought to really tell you what was like, yeah, yeah, that might happen.

[18:01] Kevin David Thomas: So please.

[18:02] Robert W Schneider: But I get some of them though, like you know, Fick Leaves Are Falling is not gonna happen at Encores anytime soon.

[18:07] Kevin David Thomas: Shucks.

[18:07] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[18:08] Kevin David Thomas: Because I really like that song.

[18:09] Robert W Schneider: I like that whole show.

[18:10] Kevin David Thomas: You introduced me to that show.

[18:11] Robert W Schneider: I didn't know that show at all.

[18:12] Kevin David Thomas: Score.

[18:13] Robert W Schneider: And I was listening to it a lot.

[18:14] Kevin David Thomas: It's good.

[18:14] Robert W Schneider: Um so the their conceit was that they were going to show you samples of eight musicals that had not come to the Encore stage yet.

[18:22] Kevin David Thomas: Um, and it was hosted by or narrated by the man in chair from Drowsy Chaperone.

[18:28] Robert W Schneider: Like literally Bob Martin was there.

[18:29] Kevin David Thomas: Bob Martin came in, what dressed as man and chair, and was like, um, I I wrote Mr.

[18:34] Robert W Schneider: Vertell and said, Why aren't you doing this show?

[18:37] Kevin David Thomas: Why aren't you doing that show?

[18:38] Robert W Schneider: And he was finally like, fine, you program it.

[18:40] Kevin David Thomas: That's a really funny idea.

[18:41] Robert W Schneider: It is funny.

[18:42] Kevin David Thomas: I will say this a little criticism.

[18:44] Robert W Schneider: I wish they had used him.

[18:46] Kevin David Thomas: Oh shit.

[18:47] Robert W Schneider: Okay, so pause.

[18:50] Kevin David Thomas: Uh I was researched.

[18:52] Robert W Schneider: Literally just popped on right now, so you can see like what he's watching.

[18:57] Kevin David Thomas: And you all know he's like loves his old stuff, but man, I was not expecting to see Lucy Calls the President.

[19:04] Robert W Schneider: What is this, Rob?

[19:06] Kevin David Thomas: After Indiana Housewife Lucy Whitaker, Lucy O'Ball calls the White House to discuss a housing project.

[19:11] Robert W Schneider: She finds herself making preparations for the president to visit her home for dinner.

[19:15] Kevin David Thomas: Calamity and comedy follows as Lucy frantically prepares for the momentous event with the eager support of her family, friends, and neighbors.

[19:26] Robert W Schneider: Just some light watching, are you, bro?

[19:28] Kevin David Thomas: So let me explain.

[19:29] Robert W Schneider: Let me explain.

[19:30] Kevin David Thomas: First of all, I didn't even know there was a movie with Lucy.

[19:31] Robert W Schneider: I didn't know.

[19:32] Kevin David Thomas: Well, it was a TV 51-minute movie from 1977.

[19:36] Robert W Schneider: Older Lucy.

[19:38] Kevin David Thomas: So let me explain this.

[19:41] Robert W Schneider: Let me explain this.

[19:42] Kevin David Thomas: Let me defend myself.

[19:45] Robert W Schneider: Let me defend myself while you while you mock my viewing habits.

[19:50] Kevin David Thomas: So very quickly, um there was a television special from 1977 that Lucy O'Ball made called Lucy Calls the President, in which Lucy O'Ball is going to invite President Jimmy Carter over to dinner.

[20:03] Robert W Schneider: It has not been on YouTube.

[20:05] Kevin David Thomas: It has not been available on VHS, it has not been available anywhere.

[20:09] Robert W Schneider: It is like the holy grail of Lucy items.

[20:12] Kevin David Thomas: Wait, what is this on?

[20:13] Robert W Schneider: This is on Amazon Prime.

[20:15] Kevin David Thomas: So I got an Amazon Prime subscription, and I was watching it, and it said, hey, Lucy calls the president is on.

[20:21] Robert W Schneider: And look at that, my friend.

[20:22] Kevin David Thomas: It got four and a half out of five stars.

[20:24] Robert W Schneider: It's looking eight out of ten on IMDB.

[20:29] Kevin David Thomas: Not even the Shape of Water or Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing, Missouri got eight out of ten stars on IMDb.

[20:35] Robert W Schneider: All right.

[20:35] Kevin David Thomas: And it's a little sad because now they're all older.

[20:39] Robert W Schneider: And Ethel Mertz, Vivian Vance is in it, but she had a stroke.

[20:42] Kevin David Thomas: Oh no.

[20:42] Robert W Schneider: So they can only film her from one side, so you can't see.

[20:45] Kevin David Thomas: No, I'm being dead serious.

[20:46] Robert W Schneider: Oh god.

[20:47] Kevin David Thomas: So you can't see like the one side.

[20:51] Robert W Schneider: Oh my gosh.

[20:51] Kevin David Thomas: So it's a little sad to watch, but I watched it.

[20:57] Robert W Schneider: So I watched Lucy Calls the President.

[20:59] Kevin David Thomas: All right.

[21:00] Robert W Schneider: It's also kind of sad because she's older and like watching her do physical comedy, you go like, oh God, you're gonna hurt yourself.

[21:05] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, she's like a character.

[21:06] Robert W Schneider: It's not as funny as when she was like Lucy Ricardo doing it.

[21:09] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh, you guys.

[21:10] Robert W Schneider: Um, this is actually so appropriate for my favorite thing today.

[21:13] Kevin David Thomas: So I will try to wrap up my encore thing to lead into my favorite thing.

[21:16] Robert W Schneider: That commercial was brought to you by Kevin's like, you know, brain.

[21:19] Kevin David Thomas: But go on to Amazon Prime because they've got a lot of great stuff on there.

[21:22] Robert W Schneider: Thanks for that.

[21:22] Kevin David Thomas: Um anyway, back to what you're talking about.

[21:24] Robert W Schneider: So the man in chair, my only criticism was they he didn't really give a lot of context on the shows.

[21:28] Kevin David Thomas: He just came he would literally come out and be like, Jamaica opened in 1957 with a score by this and stored uh Lena Ilhorn.

[21:34] Robert W Schneider: But it would be nice to have a little fun fact about it.

[21:36] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, I was hoping that they would do that more.

[21:38] Robert W Schneider: They didn't.

[21:39] Kevin David Thomas: But the shows that they presented um were Milk and Honey, Mac and Mabel.

[21:44] Robert W Schneider: Oh, the Mac and Mabel section literally made everybody. I mean, everyone loves that. Everyone's like, oh, if only we could get that ending to work. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's such a good score. Uh, Green Willow.

[21:54] Kevin David Thomas: I love Green Willow.

[21:55] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god. I the God damn it. Never, never will I read. This guy who sang it, my god, I can't remember his name right now, and he was so fucking brilliant. He was so good. Sail away. Oh, baby new art and the lane stretch. Travel, travel, travel, um, George M, in which at the end Joel Gray came out and tapped and sang. Isn't that special?

[22:12] Kevin David Thomas: That's George M.

[22:13] Robert W Schneider: Cohan. That's pretty cool. Um, uh, All American.

[22:17] Kevin David Thomas: Love me some All American.

[22:19] Robert W Schneider: Jamaica, which I knew great score. Nothing about Harold Arlen. You can't go wrong.

[22:23] Kevin David Thomas: I knew nothing about Jamaica, and I'm obsessed with it.

[22:26] Robert W Schneider: Can't go wrong with Harold. They had Vanessa Williams do pushed a button.

[22:29] Kevin David Thomas: From House of Flowers?

[22:30] Robert W Schneider: No.

[22:31] Kevin David Thomas: No, from from um...

[22:32] Robert W Schneider: Oh, Jamaica. Jamaica.

[22:33] Kevin David Thomas: Jamaica.

[22:33] Robert W Schneider: I'm sorry, I'm thinking of uh...

[22:33] Kevin David Thomas: You're thinking of uh, uh, uh, uh...

[22:33] Robert W Schneider: I know what you're thinking of from House of Flowers.

[22:38] Kevin David Thomas: I know exactly what I'm thinking, I don't know. Um, and was there another one?

[22:42] Robert W Schneider: Oh, and then um, the ending was very touching. The cast came out, they bowed, and they said, We want to present one more song for you. And they sang the Statue of Liberty song from Miss Liberty.

[22:54] Kevin David Thomas: It's the music that Irving Berlin said to the words that are on the Statue of Liberty.

[22:59] Robert W Schneider: It was very one of the things that was so cool about Hey Look Me Over was there was this tone of optimism and the tone of American can-do spirit throughout the entire show. But the first thing they showed us was my favorite thing.

[23:12] Kevin David Thomas: And the first thing they showed us was from 1960.

[23:17] Robert W Schneider: You just made fun of her.

[23:19] Kevin David Thomas: Wildcat.

[23:20] Robert W Schneider: It was Wildcat. It was Wildcat.

[23:21] Kevin David Thomas: Well, Hey, look me over.

[23:22] Robert W Schneider: Hey, look at me over.

[23:23] Kevin David Thomas: Which I don't know at all.

[23:25] Robert W Schneider: Well, Kevin.

[23:26] Kevin David Thomas: Albert Haig?

[23:26] Robert W Schneider: No, it's Cy Coleman.

[23:27] Kevin David Thomas: It's Cy Coleman, Carolyn Lee.

[23:30] Robert W Schneider: Yeah. It's their first Broadway score together. It's a book by N. Richard Nash. Originally the score was supposed to be written by Van Huusen, Jimmy Van Huzen, and Sammy Kahn.

[23:39] Kevin David Thomas: Um, and they did not write it. It went to Cy Coleman and Carolyn Lane.

[23:43] Robert W Schneider: Was it his first score as well?

[23:45] Kevin David Thomas: It was.

[23:46] Robert W Schneider: It was. It was their first, yeah, because it was 1960.

[23:48] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, so they hadn't done Little Me.

[23:50] Robert W Schneider: He hadn't done Little Me, he hadn't done Sweet Charity.

[23:52] Kevin David Thomas: Wow.

[23:52] Robert W Schneider: All right. So the story of Wildcat. Um, it's really f I think it's fascinating. The idea was about by a guy named N. Richard Nash. Right. Who wrote 110 or 100%? Who wrote One Ten in the Shade and the uh which was the adaptation.

[24:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, the Rainmaker.

[24:08] Robert W Schneider: And it's about Wildcat, Wilde Jackson. She arrives in 1912 in Centavo City with dreams of striking oil, but she doesn't have money and she doesn't know how to do it. She's with her sister. She finds a guy named Joe Dynamite, who is the most successful crew foreman in the territory, and decides that he's gonna help her.

[24:29] Kevin David Thomas: And of course, Sparks Fly.

[24:32] Robert W Schneider: Of course. All right. Um, complications ensue.

[24:37] Kevin David Thomas: He leaves her.

[24:38] Robert W Schneider: She gets him arrested. She comes back. She realizes she's she can't do anything. He's left her. So she throws something down onto the ground.

[24:47] Kevin David Thomas: And what happens?

[24:48] Robert W Schneider: The ground starts to shake. Oil pops up and curtain falls.

[24:52] Kevin David Thomas: Hey, look at it.

[24:53] Robert W Schneider: Hey, look me over. I'm covered in oil. So originally the idea was that the show was gonna be about a very young woman trying to like make it big back then.

[25:03] Kevin David Thomas: So I'm trying to think like who back then like would have been a good casting for it. Like a young, like a Susan Watson, or you know, like a young Susan Watson or Cheetah Rivera.

[25:14] Robert W Schneider: Or even Priscilla or Anita Gillette.

[25:16] Kevin David Thomas: Or eat it or Priscilla Gillette.

[25:18] Robert W Schneider: Either Gillettes are fine. Um, I was gonna make a joke, I don't think we're gonna want to do it.

[25:24] Kevin David Thomas: No, never mind.

[25:27] Robert W Schneider: A rare censorship on the podcast from Robert W Schneider.

[25:32] Kevin David Thomas: It's not even funny.

[25:32] Robert W Schneider: It's not even a funny joke. I'm so sorry you all had to sit there through it. At least we got it anyway.

[25:36] Kevin David Thomas: So N. Richard Nash is trying to find someone to do it. He gets Michael Kidd on board to direct and choreograph it.

[25:42] Robert W Schneider: Right. Michael Kidd is like, you know, I don't know if Sammy Kahn and Jimmy Van Hughes, I don't know if they're the right people for it. Here's this new team you should know about Carolyn Lee and Cy Coleman.

[25:52] Kevin David Thomas: So because of Michael Kidd, Carolyn Lee and Cy Coleman get to write the score to Wildcat.

[25:56] Robert W Schneider: But now here's where it gets fun. Lucille Ball has just been the queen of television, queen of comedy, has just ended her television show, has just divorced her husband, Desi Arnaz, and wants to do something different.

[26:11] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[26:12] Robert W Schneider: So she's like, I'm gonna go to Broadway. And they approach, they approach, she says, Listen, I will do Wildcat, and my company, Desi Lou, will put up the entire investment.

[26:22] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[26:23] Robert W Schneider: So now they have a producer.

[26:24] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh.

[26:25] Robert W Schneider: But the only problem is Lucille Ball is 48 years old. She's not the young ingenue that they wanted.

[26:33] Kevin David Thomas: And except for one show that she toured, Lucille Ball had never been on stage.

[26:38] Robert W Schneider: Oh wow. She wasn't a stage actress. She was a film actress and then a television actress.

[26:44] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[26:45] Robert W Schneider: So they ask her, like, well, okay, this is great. We're gonna get the literally the queen of television is going to make her Broadway debut.

[26:51] Kevin David Thomas: And we don't have to pay for it.

[26:52] Robert W Schneider: And we don't have to pay for it because her company. Now, this is what's really weird. Who owned Desi Lu?

[26:57] Kevin David Thomas: Her and Desi Arnaz.

[26:59] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, well, they just got it. But even though they're divorced, they're still involved in business and finances.

[27:03] Kevin David Thomas: So her ex-husband is producing her show.

[27:07] Robert W Schneider: They ask her, um, who do you want to be opposite you? And she says, Oh, well, ask my friend Kirk Douglas.

[27:14] Kevin David Thomas: So Kirk Douglas.

[27:15] Robert W Schneider: Wait. Kirk Douglas was going to star in Wildcat, and then he was like, Oh, I'm so sorry.

[27:22] Kevin David Thomas: He's like, I've got a film, I can't do it.

[27:23] Robert W Schneider: So they hired named Keith Andes, who is a little younger.

[27:27] Kevin David Thomas: Keith Andes. Do you know the actor Ryan Andes who's around right now? It's his grandfather.

[27:31] Robert W Schneider: Oh. Right?

[27:32] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[27:32] Robert W Schneider: And Valerie Harper from Mary Tim Market was in the chorus of the show.

[27:37] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, so here's some of the score, some of the songs from Wildcat, and that's why I think you should listen to it.

[27:42] Robert W Schneider: Once again, it's Cy Coleman. It's Carolyn Lee. It's their first score together. Why would you not want to hear this?

[27:50] Kevin David Thomas: Hey, look me over.

[27:51] Robert W Schneider: Nice.

[27:51] Kevin David Thomas: Which we all know.

[27:52] Robert W Schneider: Hey, look me over, lend me in here. Fresh shout of Clover, mortgage up to here.

[27:58] Kevin David Thomas: But don't pass the plate, folks.

[28:00] Robert W Schneider: Don't pass the cup. Whenever you're down and out, the only way is up, and I'll be up.

[28:05] Kevin David Thomas: Like okay, great.

[28:06] Robert W Schneider: Great. No, that was a sample.

[28:07] Kevin David Thomas: Great.

[28:08] Robert W Schneider: I was impressed. The song was so popular, Lyndon Johnson used it as his campaign theme song when he was running for vice president.

[28:15] Kevin David Thomas: That's right.

[28:16] Robert W Schneider: Other great songs, You've come home, You're a Liar, give a little whistle.

[28:20] Kevin David Thomas: Oh.

[28:21] Robert W Schneider: And a number that's a little offensive today, but very fun to listen to a number called El Sombrero.

[28:21] Kevin David Thomas: El sombrero.

[28:28] Robert W Schneider: El sombrero. Dance by Sven Svensson, who we would later use.

[28:32] Kevin David Thomas: Stop it.

[28:32] Robert W Schneider: In so seriously, who would later use in Little Me, Sven, Sven Svenson.

[28:36] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, I know.

[28:36] Robert W Schneider: That's right.

[28:37] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, that's right.

[28:39] Robert W Schneider: Show goes out of town. It's in Philadelphia. The variety review is great. Everyone really likes it. Except there's two issues.

[28:52] Kevin David Thomas: Uh-oh.

[28:53] Robert W Schneider: One, Lucy O'Ball didn't realize how exhausting it is.

[28:57] Kevin David Thomas: Eight shows a week to do eight shows a week. It's killer.

[28:59] Robert W Schneider: Exerting all that energy, eight shows a week. Every single night, yes.

[29:03] Kevin David Thomas: And she was playing a character that was the total opposite of Lucy Ricardo.

[29:09] Robert W Schneider: Right. So everyone, remember, that's the audience is like going expecting maybe, oh, we're gonna see Lucy.

[29:16] Kevin David Thomas: Where's Lucy?

[29:18] Robert W Schneider: You get you're you're absolutely right. You're going in and you're expecting to see at least something Lucy Ricardo like fighting in the grapevat.

[29:25] Kevin David Thomas: Exactly.

[29:25] Robert W Schneider: Or you know something crowning around. But that's not who Wildcat was.

[29:32] Kevin David Thomas: So the audiences are like, where's Lucy? Where's Lucy?

[29:36] Robert W Schneider: So she starts changing the script, and they start changing the script to match what the audience is expecting.

[29:44] Kevin David Thomas: And when she meets a character that's like really, really stingy in Wildcat, she looks at him and goes, Do you know a guy named Fred Mertz?

[29:53] Robert W Schneider: No.

[29:55] Kevin David Thomas: So she would be ad-libbing mentioning her television show.

[30:00] Robert W Schneider: Um, she worked really hard though. At the end of the show, the curtain would go up and she would go on stage and sing a little bit and talk and answer questions.

[30:09] Kevin David Thomas: So there was that added bonus to it as well.

[30:12] Robert W Schneider: Unfortunately, she gets tired after a couple of months.

[30:16] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[30:17] Robert W Schneider: She leaves the show for a couple of weeks, comes back, then collapses on stage.

[30:22] Kevin David Thomas: She just passes out from sheer exhaustion.

[30:25] Robert W Schneider: And they say, okay, then what we're gonna do is we're gonna put the show on hiatus for a bit.

[30:29] Kevin David Thomas: Um, and then what happened was the official story was we can't reopen the show because it's on hiatus.

[30:37] Robert W Schneider: Uh, because the musicians' band, the musicians union is saying that the musicians have to be paid while they're on hiatus.

[30:43] Kevin David Thomas: That wasn't the thing.

[30:43] Robert W Schneider: Lucille Ball got out and said, I don't want to do this anymore.

[30:47] Kevin David Thomas: Wow.

[30:48] Robert W Schneider: I mean, think about it. You were the queen of comedy. You ran a she ran a television studio. People forget that about her. She wasn't just Lucille Ball on television.

[30:56] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[30:57] Robert W Schneider: She ran Desi Lu Studios. She ran most popular woman on television, most runs a television studio, getting a divorce, then going to star in a new Broadway musical.

[31:10] Kevin David Thomas: Of course she's exhausted.

[31:12] Robert W Schneider: Of course she's exhausted for her.

[31:14] Kevin David Thomas: Right. I mean, I am.

[31:15] Robert W Schneider: So anyway, though, even though that's the case, the score to Wildcat is really incredible.

[31:21] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know if we'll see it again.

[31:24] Robert W Schneider: I don't know who would do it again if we were gonna do it again. Because you would need you need a zany comedian, you need like a like a fate, like a younger faith prince or someone like that.

[31:32] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know who that is right now.

[31:34] Robert W Schneider: So anyway, um, I want you all to take a listen to Wildcat from 1960. Um, it's a fantastic show. And if you go online, there's some great clips of uh Lucille Ball doing it on the Ed Sullivan show, so you can get a sense of what it looked like.

[31:49] Kevin David Thomas: Um, when they did it at uh Encores, it was Carolee Carmelo that was was singing, and she sounded amazing.

[31:55] Robert W Schneider: Surprise, surprise. So mine is Wildcat.

[31:57] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, that's fantastic.

[31:59] Robert W Schneider: And mine is the uh Steven Suskin uh reference book Show Tunes.

[32:02] Kevin David Thomas: Enjoy both. Bye, everybody.