This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[0:19] Robert W Schneider: Hi, I'm Robert W Schneider.

[0:21] Kevin David Thomas: And I am Kevin David Thomas.

[0:22] Robert W Schneider: And this is our favorite thing.

[0:24] Kevin David Thomas: Huzzah!

[0:25] Robert W Schneider: Huzzah!

[0:26] Robert W Schneider: Happy throwback Thursday, Kevin!

[0:27] Kevin David Thomas: Hey!

[0:28] Kevin David Thomas: How have you been?

[0:28] Robert W Schneider: This is one of my favorite days.

[0:29] Kevin David Thomas: Is it really?

[0:30] Robert W Schneider: I love when we get to chat about this stuff.

[0:32] Kevin David Thomas: Me too.

[0:33] Kevin David Thomas: I'm not gonna lie. I live for this.

[0:35] Robert W Schneider: I love geeking out about musical theater.

[0:37] Kevin David Thomas: Totally.

[0:38] Kevin David Thomas: And I hope our—I think our listeners like geeking out about musical theater as well.

[0:41] Robert W Schneider: You know, it could—if you're like me, I mean, there are things that I had never—had never been on my radar before, and then now I go home or if I ever have some free time and go down a rabbit hole. Like, I went down the Stairway to Stardom rabbit hole, Rob.

[0:52] Kevin David Thomas: Thanks a lot for that.

[0:54] Robert W Schneider: I mean, precious, uh, what's her name?

[0:56] Kevin David Thomas: Cheryl Klein.

[0:57] Robert W Schneider: I mean, these people are mine.

[1:00] Kevin David Thomas: And if you guys don't know what I'm talking about, please go back and listen to one of our favorite things podcasts where we talk—where Rob talked about Stairway to Stardom, the public access cable series from the early 80s into the early 90s, I want to say.

[1:18] Robert W Schneider: Come on up and come watch with me. It's always on the TV here.

[1:20] Kevin David Thomas: It's always on the TV.

[1:23] Robert W Schneider: Man, it's good though. I don't know, I don't think I mentioned this, but if you watch the Cheryl Klein one, did you notice how the camera panned a little bit and there was the host eating dinner in his kitchen?

[1:31] Kevin David Thomas: He's eating his little spaghetti and meatballs.

[1:33] Robert W Schneider: He's a very happy man.

[1:34] Kevin David Thomas: I was too disturbed by her performance.

[1:36] Robert W Schneider: I mean, and fascinated by it.

[1:37] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I love that performance. She's like so coked up.

[1:40] Robert W Schneider: You know what I forgot to mention to you about Stairway to Stardom? And then we'll move on. I'm so sorry, guys. It's a very good thing. I started it.

[1:47] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[1:50] Robert W Schneider: There were two women on there who were—

[1:53] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my god, I can't remember their names.

[1:55] Robert W Schneider: It's okay.

[1:55] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, but we have to look it up though. Kevin, this is—

[1:57] Robert W Schneider: Were they in sequined—

[1:59] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[2:01] Robert W Schneider: They were in—

[1:59] Kevin David Thomas: Can't believe I know this. Horowitz Inspector.

[2:03] Robert W Schneider: Oh my God.

[2:04] Kevin David Thomas: Of course. It's not like a law firm. It's Horowitz Inspector.

[2:05] Robert W Schneider: Do you remember? I don't know if many people remember this on SNL when Jan Hooks and Nora Dunn would do the Sweeney sisters.

[2:12] Kevin David Thomas: Oh yeah.

[2:13] Robert W Schneider: They said they based the Sweeney sisters off of Horowitz Inspector.

[2:17] Kevin David Thomas: They were like—they were in like sequined leotards. They would do medleys everywhere. Mark Shaman was actually the pianist in the sketches.

[2:24] Robert W Schneider: Oh gosh.

[2:25] Kevin David Thomas: So that was them. Now I'll—I'm so sorry. I need to put a cold washcloth on my head because we're talking about Stairway to Stardom. I just need to lay down.

[2:32] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god.

[2:33] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, so that's what I've been doing.

[2:34] Robert W Schneider: That's what you've been doing.

[2:35] Kevin David Thomas: Oh yeah.

[2:36] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh. Thank you. I have to tell our viewers I'm a little tired because I stayed up late last night. They released a new episode, a full episode, which I had never seen before.

[2:43] Robert W Schneider: Of a Stairway to Stardom.

[2:45] Kevin David Thomas: Who was releasing this stuff, Rob, because it's an official YouTube account?

[2:48] Robert W Schneider: So this is what I found out because I contacted them.

[2:50] Kevin David Thomas: Of course you did.

[2:51] Robert W Schneider: Of course I did. They love the show. The people that own that channel or created that channel love the show. And when Frank Massey was still alive, they interviewed him and they said that they were doing a documentary about public access.

[3:04] Kevin David Thomas: They weren't doing a documentary about public access.

[3:06] Robert W Schneider: And so they met him. They did an interview with him, which is also on YouTube, and it's actually very interesting. And they said, "Can we take whatever tapes you have and copy them? Because we'll probably want to use it for the documentary." And he said yes.

[3:17] Kevin David Thomas: And they got all the tapes.

[3:21] Robert W Schneider: Well, he owned the material and he gave it to them and said, "Do what you want with it." So yeah, so legally, yeah.

[3:25] Kevin David Thomas: Hey, and we're all the merrier for it.

[3:27] Robert W Schneider: So you know, and I told him, I said, "I just want to thank you guys for the endless hours of entertainment." They—some of them have like 50,000 hits. I mean, like they're very popular.

[3:34] Kevin David Thomas: Sort of campy stardomers.

[3:40] Robert W Schneider: There's a lot of people, you know, where they're singing so campy and they're—

[3:42] Kevin David Thomas: So earnest.

[3:40] Robert W Schneider: So earnest, so earnest. God bless each and every one of them. I applaud that.

[3:48] Kevin David Thomas: I would really like a Where Are They Now episode.

[3:50] Robert W Schneider: That would be really nice.

[3:51] Kevin David Thomas: We should do that.

[3:52] Robert W Schneider: But I can't find them. So imagine I'm—I Google Cheryl Klein, New York City. How many Cheryl Kleins do you think are in New York City?

[4:01] Kevin David Thomas: 70,000?

[4:02] Robert W Schneider: And this is like something like 80,000.

[4:04] Kevin David Thomas: 35 years later.

[4:05] Robert W Schneider: She could—that could not have been a real name, maybe.

[4:08] Kevin David Thomas: Maybe she's married now. Who knows?

[4:10] Robert W Schneider: Wow.

[4:10] Kevin David Thomas: Who knows? What fun?

[4:11] Robert W Schneider: She actually changed her name to Patti LuPone.

[4:14] Kevin David Thomas: It kind of seemed like the What's New Buenos Aires? That clip.

[4:18] Robert W Schneider: It kind of was reminiscent of it.

[4:19] Kevin David Thomas: Well, you know what? What's funny is she's in the middle of the comedy set and somebody's talking to her, excuse me.

[4:24] Robert W Schneider: So maybe it is Patti LuPone.

[4:26] Kevin David Thomas: The comedy routines are also very good.

[4:28] Robert W Schneider: Oh, aren't they pretty good? Upwardly amazing.

[4:30] Kevin David Thomas: Please, Stairway to Stardom.

[4:31] Robert W Schneider: I'm so sorry. And that's not even our favorite thing.

[4:34] Kevin David Thomas: You see, that's—it's such a favorite thing that we can revisit it again.

[4:36] Robert W Schneider: So my favorite thing, besides Raindrops on Roses and Whiskers on Kittens.

[4:41] Kevin David Thomas: Um, 1973.

[4:43] Robert W Schneider: Great year.

[4:44] Kevin David Thomas: A great year.

[4:44] Robert W Schneider: And I'm gonna talk about the show a little bit.

[4:47] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, but I really want to talk more about the lyricist of the show.

[4:51] Robert W Schneider: Okay.

[4:52] Kevin David Thomas: Because I think she—

[4:53] Robert W Schneider: Oh, a she.

[4:54] Kevin David Thomas: A she is someone who does not get the credit she deserves.

[4:58] Robert W Schneider: I'm a huge fan of that. I'm giving credit. After the Trudy Rippman episode, I feel like she should get a little—this woman should get a little bit more attention.

[5:05] Kevin David Thomas: All right.

[5:06] Robert W Schneider: Lyricist, Dorothy Fields.

[5:08] Kevin David Thomas: I knew it. I knew you were gonna say that.

[5:09] Robert W Schneider: Composer, Cy Coleman.

[5:11] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[5:12] Robert W Schneider: Book by Michael Bennett.

[5:13] Kevin David Thomas: Yep.

[5:14] Robert W Schneider: Parentheses, Neil Simon uncredited.

[5:16] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[5:16] Robert W Schneider: Another Neil Simon.

[5:17] Kevin David Thomas: Another Neil Simon uncredited.

[5:19] Robert W Schneider: He did a lot of that ghost work.

[5:20] Kevin David Thomas: I would like to introduce everybody to a wonderful musical called Seesaw.

[5:24] Robert W Schneider: Yes, Kevin.

[5:25] Kevin David Thomas: Totally, I love Seesaw.

[5:27] Robert W Schneider: I love Seesaw.

[5:28] Kevin David Thomas: Michelle Lee.

[5:29] Robert W Schneider: Michelle Lee.

[5:30] Kevin David Thomas: Ken Howard.

[5:31] Robert W Schneider: The late great Ken Howard who just passed away.

[5:34] Kevin David Thomas: From the great White Shadow.

[5:35] Robert W Schneider: That was the TV show The White Shadow.

[5:37] Kevin David Thomas: And we heard a story about it because when we interviewed Leroy, remember I was gonna play the Tommy Tune part.

[5:43] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[5:43] Kevin David Thomas: And then things—the relationship with Michael Bennett changed a little bit more.

[5:47] Robert W Schneider: If you—no, no, no, no, no. If you want more information on Seesaw, go back to part one out of the 80-part series we did with Broadway legend Leroy Reams.

[5:55] Kevin David Thomas: Leroy Reams.

[5:57] Robert W Schneider: It's like when David Frost interviewed Richard Nixon. Like a big long epic.

[6:02] Kevin David Thomas: And I love this.

[6:05] Robert W Schneider: We had so many martinis. I wish I—maybe I'll do this. Maybe 200 years after we have all passed away, we will release the unedited version of the Leroy Reams interview.

[6:16] Kevin David Thomas: Because there were things that were said so much.

[6:19] Robert W Schneider: Things that were revealed. My jaw was on the floor.

[6:22] Kevin David Thomas: My jaw was on the floor.

[6:24] Robert W Schneider: I cannot—I can't even begin. So Tommy Tune was—yep, yep, yep, yep. And that was one of his first breakout roles, I want to say.

[6:30] Kevin David Thomas: For Tommy Tune.

[6:31] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[6:31] Kevin David Thomas: So for those of you who aren't aware of Seesaw, it was a musical in 1973, and it's based on a play by William Gibson, who also wrote The Miracle Worker.

[6:39] Robert W Schneider: Oh, right.

[6:39] Kevin David Thomas: And the play was called Two for the Seesaw.

[6:42] Robert W Schneider: And it starred Anne Bancroft, Henry Fonda.

[6:44] Kevin David Thomas: Those were the—I mean, and those were two big heavy hitters at the time.

[6:48] Robert W Schneider: And the story is—it's very similar. It's Boy Meets Girl with Fish Out of Water, which is the young woman is a dancer on Broadway in New York City. She's very eccentric, very liberal, and her boyfriend is a very conservative lawyer from the Midwest.

[7:04] Kevin David Thomas: And it's how the two of them get together in their romance, and is it gonna work out?

[7:08] Robert W Schneider: That's pretty much the play. We've seen this before. The musical version of Seesaw is one of the most complicated creations of a musical in Broadway theater history, and it's still talked about to this day for many big reasons.

[7:21] Kevin David Thomas: Originally, the book was going to be by Michael Stewart.

[7:24] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yeah.

[7:24] Kevin David Thomas: Who wrote Hello Dolly.

[7:25] Robert W Schneider: Same composing team, Cy Coleman, Dorothy Fields.

[7:28] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[7:28] Robert W Schneider: A guy named Ed Sharon was gonna direct it. Um, and he was mostly known for plays. He had just done The Great White Hope, which is the story of an African American boxer. Not necessarily the first person you think of when it comes to a musical theater directing, if that makes sense.

[7:44] Kevin David Thomas: This happens a lot, I feel like, you know, the old—

[7:46] Robert W Schneider: It does. There's this idea that while he directed or she directed a play, they're gonna know what to do with a musical. They're two totally different beasts.

[7:54] Kevin David Thomas: They're two totally different beasts.

[7:55] Robert W Schneider: And it doesn't mean that you can't easily go back and forth. I mean, look, Joe Mantello does it, Jack O'Brien does it, Sam Mendes—yeah, Sam Mendes does it. Directing is very much like acting. There is something—there's a type that you have, you do your strength really well, and just because you're good at one thing doesn't mean you can do everything.

[8:11] Kevin David Thomas: We're all limited.

[8:12] Robert W Schneider: We're all limited, and it looks like I think that Mr. Sharon was one of those.

[8:15] Kevin David Thomas: And the leading lady was going to be Lainie Kazan.

[8:18] Robert W Schneider: Lainie Kazan, who—my big fat Greek wedding.

[8:22] Kevin David Thomas: She was on The Nanny a lot.

[8:24] Robert W Schneider: One of my favorite movies, You Don't Mess with the Zohan.

[8:27] Kevin David Thomas: Are you sick?

[8:27] Robert W Schneider: Adam Sandler.

[8:28] Kevin David Thomas: I love that movie. You Don't Mess with Zohan.

[8:30] Robert W Schneider: Please.

[8:30] Kevin David Thomas: Zohan is genius.

[8:32] Robert W Schneider: All right, I'll let you have that one.

[8:33] Kevin David Thomas: Thank you.

[8:33] Robert W Schneider: I don't know it.

[8:34] Kevin David Thomas: He plays an Israeli spy.

[8:36] Robert W Schneider: What?

[8:37] Kevin David Thomas: Adam Sandler is an Israeli spy who moves to New York and—never mind. If you've never seen it, pretty great.

[8:43] Robert W Schneider: All right, I'll consider it.

[8:44] Kevin David Thomas: Lainie Kazan plays the woman he's living with who's always sleeping with him.

[8:48] Robert W Schneider: Oh gosh.

[8:48] Kevin David Thomas: They're having an affair.

[8:49] Robert W Schneider: Oh, and there's a very frightening scene where her son walks in on them and they're doing a doggy style.

[8:57] Kevin David Thomas: It's um—okay, all right.

[8:59] Robert W Schneider: But it's a classic.

[8:59] Kevin David Thomas: So anyway, Lainie Kazan was going to be the lead. Needless to say, trouble out of town.

[9:04] Robert W Schneider: Ah, classic.

[9:05] Kevin David Thomas: Ed Sharon fires and they bring in Michael Bennett.

[9:08] Robert W Schneider: Michael Bennett, who—he's the golden child and golden child. He's coming off Company, he's coming off Follies.

[9:14] Kevin David Thomas: First thing Michael Bennett does, gets rid of Lainie Kazan.

[9:18] Robert W Schneider: Gone.

[9:18] Kevin David Thomas: Fires her.

[9:19] Robert W Schneider: Why?

[9:21] Kevin David Thomas: He says, "No one's gonna believe that someone so zoftig," which is a nice Yiddish word.

[9:26] Robert W Schneider: I've never even heard that word before.

[9:28] Kevin David Thomas: For big is going to be a Broadway dancer. And she begs with him and she pleads with him. She says, "Please let me stay in the show. This is going to be her big break. Please let me be in the show." Fires Lainie Kazan and brings in Michelle Lee.

[9:40] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I mean, like complete opposite.

[9:41] Kevin David Thomas: From How to Succeed and all that stuff.

[9:43] Robert W Schneider: And he changes—I mean, like she's Michelle Lee. And he changes the whole tone of the show. He also brings in his associate choreographer, Tommy Tune, and gives him a featured role.

[9:56] Kevin David Thomas: Major song.

[9:57] Robert W Schneider: Tall Tommy Tune. This is Tommy Tune's breakout role. That role was originally being played by another actor who got fired.

[10:04] Kevin David Thomas: But who was promised that role before that actor?

[10:07] Robert W Schneider: Leroy Reams.

[10:08] Kevin David Thomas: Leroy Reams.

[10:09] Robert W Schneider: And Leroy does not come to Detroit, where they're out of town. Leroy thinks he's going to come in. Does not happen. So what happens is—and this is actually what's really, really brilliant.

[10:18] Kevin David Thomas: Michael Bennett takes this show, which is supposed to take place in New York City. When they were doing it out of town, New York City was presented very realistically and literally. And Michael Bennett somehow was able to take the grit of New York City and marry it with the fantastical images we have of New York City.

[10:35] Robert W Schneider: So the New York City of Seesaw is a hybrid. It's a little gritty and it's a little fantastical. And the story takes on a whole new tone, and the show becomes a success out of town. It moves into New York City and it becomes a success in New York City.

[10:51] Kevin David Thomas: And it features an amazing score, including things like "My City," very classic song that's sung in auditions a lot, "Nobody Does It Like Me."

[10:59] Robert W Schneider: Oh, great song.

[11:00] Kevin David Thomas: "Welcome to Holiday Inn."

[11:02] Robert W Schneider: That's a funny story.

[11:02] Kevin David Thomas: Which is a very funny song, ladies, if you're looking for something funny to do.

[11:05] Robert W Schneider: "Spanglish."

[11:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yes.

[11:07] Robert W Schneider: Which is a story of how Jerry Ryan, our very waspy lawyer, learns how to speak the hybrid languages of New York City.

[11:16] Kevin David Thomas: And Tommy Tune's big number, it's not where you have to start, it's where you finish.

[11:21] Robert W Schneider: An optimistic, hopeful song done with staircases and balloons. There is a clip of it that's amazing, and we will post it on YouTube.

[11:29] Kevin David Thomas: Full Michael Bennett special there.

[11:30] Robert W Schneider: Oh, a full Michael Bennett special.

[11:32] Kevin David Thomas: And one of the really, really cool things about the show is that in order to get sagging ticket sales up as a publicity stunt, they got the actual mayor of New York City at the time, John Lindsay, to make a cameo in the show.

[11:46] Robert W Schneider: And he was actually featured in the show one night, and he actually looked very much like the leading man of the show.

[11:51] Robert W Schneider: He looked a lot like Ken Howard. And he's not doing anything at the office, and he just popped by for a matinee. Well, that was the irony of it, which was the whole show was talking about how crime-ridden New York City was, and the mayor, who should have been stopping the clip. Eight shows a week. Showed up not eight shows a week, just a couple of cameos every once in a while. It is so random. And that built boosted up ticket sales. I am always surprised that this show is not done at Encores.

[12:14] Kevin David Thomas: I am too. We don't hear about it very often. And I'm surprised it's not done more often because it's a nice little throwback to the 70s and it's great. I want to give a shout out to Dorothy Fields. You know, everyone we've talked to that has known her, everyone has the same love and affection for her. I wish we could have talked to her because she was one special lady. Allegedly enjoyed the sauce.

[12:34] Robert W Schneider: Enjoyed the sauce. Yeah. Could down a vodka martini like that. There's a great book on her, and I believe the book is called On the Sunny Side of the Street. This is why I really want to acknowledge her. Most lyricists and composers don't really evolve as the times evolve.

[12:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[12:52] Robert W Schneider: Just listen to these couple of songs. On the sunny side of the street, the way you look tonight. Big spender. These are decades, starting in the 1920s and going up to the 19th century. Worked with Jerome Kern. I mean the original operetta master.

[13:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[13:08] Robert W Schneider: This is a woman who, if you look at her lyrics, I mean, this is lyric writing. The optimism of on the sunny side of the street and the lyrics that she uses to create Spanglish to welcome to Holiday Inn to it's not where you start, it's where you finish. Always sounds exactly like the time period she is writing in. That's special. And not and honestly, not a lot of people can do that. Not a lot of lyricists can do that. She was always mirroring the times. And to me, I think that's incredible, and I don't think she gets the credit she deserves.

[13:40] Kevin David Thomas: I think you're right, actually. I do. And it especially I must say, as a female artist in that time period, too. Um, and it I think the fact that she was so beloved is shown in her work because clearly she was of the time, I mean, like she was social, she was, you know, current, and you're right. We should know her more. She's a very special woman, and her work is um and she didn't just write with Cy Coleman. I mean, she wrote with like a lot of I mean, I yeah.

[14:07] Robert W Schneider: I mean, if you look, I mean, she worked with just about every single major composer. Didn't she?

[14:15] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, oh yeah, she did Tree Grows in Brooklyn. And like I said, you know, she doesn't everyone goes Steven Sondheim, um, Fred Ebb, those are usually the big lyricists that get mentioned. I'm sure I'm forgetting it. Oh, Oscar uh duh, Oscar Hammerstein. But to be honest with you, and I hope this doesn't sound like sacrilege, Oscar Hammerstein's lyrics pretty much sound like the same period over and over again. And I either they're brilliant and poetic, wonderful, but there is a style to it for sure. As brilliant as it is, but it is uh capsuled, yeah.

[14:43] Robert W Schneider: I feel her lyrics really hold the mirror up to the time that she's writing in, and she's able to adjust and change as time goes on. So the big thing is if you're not gonna listen to Seesaw, at least listen to something else that Dorothy Fields has done because the work is really incredible and really impressive.

[14:59] Kevin David Thomas: Totally. So Seesaw 1973. Thank God so much of the stuff was preserved on YouTube for you to take a look at. I would love to see it come back in any way, shape, or form. So that's my favorite thing. I love that movie.

[15:10] Robert W Schneider: That's a really good one. What is your favorite thing for this movie?

[15:12] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, you're gonna know this one right away. This is a movie. This movie is a rite of passage for all musical theater lovers.

[15:22] Robert W Schneider: Zohan.

[15:22] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[15:25] Robert W Schneider: The musical.

[15:26] Kevin David Thomas: You're gonna know it right away. I mean, it it's I I was a what a freshman. It was like my first week in college, and the older classman took us to the theater. Uh, you know, took they they got this the chamber hall, and we sat down and watched this movie. You know, it's a it's it's a movie about a musical, putting on a musical in a town. Is it oh wait. I could do a dance move for you right now, and you would know it right away.

[15:49] Robert W Schneider: Oh.

[15:50] Kevin David Thomas: Is this waiting for Guffman?

[15:51] Robert W Schneider: Of course it's waiting for Guffman. Oh my I love you so much right now. You know I love you so much. Rob and I both teach at New York Film Academy in their musical theater department. And we we mentioned this movie to our students, and God bless them, they're like 18 to 22, and they had no idea what we were talking about. And I was completely horrified. And I was like, your homework is to go home and watch, but I never got. And they came back and they were like, oh my gosh, where's this movie been? This is this is hysterical. And it was like, yeah, I know it is.

[16:19] Robert W Schneider: Alright, so uh for those of you who perhaps don't know what this movie is, it's written by the team of Christopher Guest and Eugene Levy. Um they've written, they did Spinal Tap and they did Best in Show, and they're known for making these sort of well, this is a mockumentary kind of movie. But they're it's they're really known for creating the setup for the scenes, but then the scenes are almost all improvised. That there's no scripted dialogue, and and you really can see that these actors, these comedic actors like Catherine O'Hara and Fred Willard, and I mean you're thinking of all their performances right now, and Michael McKean, Parker Posey's in it, and they are so listening and reacting, and and and it's almost theatrical the way that they are play their scenes. It is funny, it's kooky, and the whole concept of the movie is this town is celebrating their sesquicentennial anniversary.

[17:09] Kevin David Thomas: The town of Blaine in uh Missouri is their 150th celebration, and so they've decided to put on the musical Red White and Blaine. An original musical that they've got their uh Corky St. Clair, who can't who is uh from New York City, an old faded theatrical impresario, who now makes his home in Blaine and is allegedly married, but we never meet his wife, Bonnie. But um, he's gonna he's been hired to direct it and write it. And so he brings his talentless community members together, and they put on the show. And you get like something like 30 minutes of the musical. And the only thing that actually is scripted is the dialogue for the musical in the movie.

[17:50] Robert W Schneider: Oh, really? That is the only part that's actually scripted. And what you see, friends, is you get to see they're all the their audition, like Fred Willard and Catherine O'Hara are a husband and wife, and and they you see their audition together, like the audition for Corky, and you watch their audition, and they have a whole medley. Oh my god, it's midnight at the oasis. Midnight at the oasis, it's so wacky. I can't it describing it to you if you haven't seen it, it just doesn't do it justice. But in the theater industry, to this day, we when it's the day when you are gonna have opening night, everyone says it's the day of the show, y'all. Day of the show, yeah. Like Parker Posey says that on the day of the show.

And so the whole conceit is that when they hear that this guy from New York, a producer is gonna come, and it's very like waiting for Godot, but it's waiting for Guffman is the producer that's allegedly coming to see their show because maybe it's gonna go to Broadway. Of course, well, I don't want to ruin anything, but let's just say Guffman doesn't show up, but they think he does.

[18:45] Kevin David Thomas: I am so happy you picked this movie. It's like amazing.

[18:48] Robert W Schneider: It is I think it is one of the funniest films ever made. Ever. Period. Yep.

[18:52] Kevin David Thomas: And I am so surprised. I think I don't know if we have talked about this before, but the Academy Awards never really wants to give recognition to comedy.

[19:00] Robert W Schneider: Totally.

[19:01] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know why, because I think I think comic performance and writing is ten times more difficult. Yep. And waiting for Guffman should have been nominated for Best Picture that year. It really is hysterical. And like you were saying, if you've done community theater and I you know these people, you know this world. You know Ron and Sheila.

[19:19] Robert W Schneider: Oh yeah.

[19:19] Kevin David Thomas: You go, yep, that's the married couple that think they do everything. They're good, yeah. They think they're the you know what, and they act like it. And the I love when they do the audition, and Fred Willard goes, Do you want me to strike the chair? We've done shows before, so we know.

[19:33] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, we know we know we know all the terminology. We know the vocabulary. It is, I don't Bob Balaban as their music director, the put upon music director. And the music and the musical, though, is is shockingly amazing. Because the orchestrations are like unreal, like his orchestra sounds so good. But I notice that a lot in a lot of community theaters. Like the show itself might not be amazing, but the band is always fantastic. And he takes it so seriously in that fight they have, like when he's like, they're trying to talk under their breath. He's like, what do you just just say it? Just say it. Just say it. And he opens up the well, yeah. I don't want to give anything anything away.

[20:05] Kevin David Thomas: You know what my favorite one of my favorite parts in that movie is, and it gets I think it gets unnoticed. In addition to being so funny, there's also a heart there. Eugene Levy's wife.

[20:15] Robert W Schneider: Yes.

[20:16] Kevin David Thomas: When he enters in Red White and Blaine, it's a close-up of her, and she goes to applaud him, like to give him entrance. And nobody else applauds, and she just puts her hands down sadly. She's so proud of him. And it tells you so much. I'm having tears thinking about it. I don't know what it tells you so much about their relationship and like what he's able to accomplish.

[20:37] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[20:37] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know who this actor is, but when they go to the audition montage, and he comes and goes, I'm gonna do a scene from Raging Bull, and he plays both parts of Robert De Niro and Joe Pesci.

[20:50] Robert W Schneider: Did you fuck my wife?

[20:52] Kevin David Thomas: What?

[20:53] Robert W Schneider: Did you fuck my wife?

[20:55] Kevin David Thomas: How could you ask me that? One of my favorites is uh uh real quick is is uh on the now if you have the DVD, there are special features, right? So you get cut scenes, and one of the cut scenes is Parker Posey's audition, and she does a whole monologue where she's she's like doing a whole monologue of like someone who's terminally ill, and they're like plugged into the you know, and so the whole monologue is about her, like it was like her abuser or something, and she's like, and he did things that she did not want to do, and then at the very end of it, she pulls the plug on him, so she mimes it, and she's like tugging at it, and it doesn't come out, and then she is like it is it's true comedic genius. And I I read somewhere that they had no idea what they were gonna do for those audition sequences.

[21:38] Robert W Schneider: I was just gonna say they each made up their own stuff, and they just didn't park it's so crazy. I feel like that she just is like a wack-a-doo, and that was you can see it in that monologue. It's brilliant. Um, Eugene Levy does a whole like the um sound racist. It's a medley, medley. I dream of GD with the light brown hair. You know, this has to be a favorite thing at some point, but I just want to recommend if you really like these mockumentaries, go back, please, and watch SCTV, which was Canada's answer to Saturday Night Live, in which you have Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara and Martin Short and Andrea Martin, and they do so many theater parodies on there. I was watching an episode recently where they did a parody of talk shows, and Andrea Martin did Phyllis Newman. Andrea Martin came out and did Phyllis Newman, and you go, who would do a Phyllis Newman impression? And it's Andrea Martin, and it's pretty fantastic. I deviated on the thing.

[22:34] Kevin David Thomas: Anything with Catherine O'Hara, I'm happy. I mean, I think that woman can do no wrong. I feel like she should be a staple in this world. I she's just unreal common. Catherine O'Hara is a god, even like Home Alone, she's the mom in Home Alone, of course.

[22:43] Robert W Schneider: Oh yeah, she's the mom and Home Alone.

[22:44] Kevin David Thomas: So you not only see that she's a great comedian, but she's actually a really good actress.

[22:47] Robert W Schneider: She's a brilliant act.

[22:48] Kevin David Thomas: That one scene where she freaks out that I mean, come on, like it's real. She'm a genius actress, but she's funny. So waiting for Guffman.

[22:54] Robert W Schneider: Waiting for Guffman, you guys. Write a passage. You have to see it. Seesaw waiting for Guffman. So listen to that, watch that, and let us know what you think.

[23:02] Robert W Schneider: Alright, till next time.

[23:04] Kevin David Thomas: Bye.

[23:05] Robert W Schneider: Bye.

[23:05] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Unknown performer ♪