This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Unknown artist ♪

[0:18] Robert W Schneider: Hi, I'm Robert W Schneider.

[0:19] Kevin David Thomas: And I'm Kevin David Thomas.

[0:20] Robert W Schneider: And this is Throwback Thursday.

[0:22] Kevin David Thomas: Happy throwback Thursday, Kev.

[0:24] Robert W Schneider: Happy throwback Thursday, Rob.

[0:26] Kevin David Thomas: Uh, do you want to tell our listeners where we're recording this from?

[0:29] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, friends. We are uh I'm we're looking overlooking the great harbor of New York City.

[0:34] Kevin David Thomas: The ship is in the harbor now.

[0:36] Robert W Schneider: I couldn't resist.

[0:37] Kevin David Thomas: I couldn't resist.

[0:38] Robert W Schneider: We're at uh line as booming in. We're in uh New York Film Academy's uh campus, which is on the fourth and fifth floor of this building in Battery Park, overlooking Battery Park, and it's quite beautiful.

[0:50] Kevin David Thomas: We should take a picture actually and post it. Oftentimes um we are teaching here and working here, and I'll be at the piano teaching, and I'm just looking at the Statue of Liberty, and it's quite beautiful.

[0:59] Robert W Schneider: I love because I teach musical theater history here. One of the things I love.

[1:02] Kevin David Thomas: Among the many things you teach, yes.

[1:04] Robert W Schneider: No, but one of the things I love doing is talking to the students about how at the turn of the 20th century the immigration movement was so responsible for shaping America's popular entertainment.

[1:14] Kevin David Thomas: And usually when I teach the class, I'm like, can you imagine them coming into Ellis Island for the first time?

[1:19] Robert W Schneider: And all I have to do now is literally lift up the shades and go right there. Right there is where all this went down. It's pretty magical.

[1:26] Kevin David Thomas: It is magical. We're in rehearsals today uh from 10 until 6th. As you know or may have known, uh, Rob and I are doing Merrily We Roll Along with the students.

[1:34] Robert W Schneider: Rob is directing.

[1:38] Kevin David Thomas: I'm Gussie.

[1:40] Robert W Schneider: You really?

[1:41] Kevin David Thomas: No, no, not really. And you know, it's a funny thing. When I did Merrily uh in college in nineteen ninety-eight we did the original original Merrily, and Gussie's part not so big in that version. She's not as um pronounced as she is in these ones now.

[1:54] Robert W Schneider: I mean, she's got a whole song and all of that.

[1:55] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yes.

[1:56] Robert W Schneider: Yeah. It wasn't that way in the original, if you go back and listen to that.

[1:59] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, because she's got the life is knowing what you want darling. And then the whole like show within a show where she sings her big brassy number you get to actually see that Gussie was this is this big Broadway star. Like I like that they established that and I love it though. Love Merrily love Marilyn.

[2:16] Robert W Schneider: Okay so now what do you prefer? Do you prefer the original recording or what's your favorite recording of Merrily?

[2:18] Kevin David Thomas: Honestly the original cast recording. 1981 truly and I I but you know how you know I'm sure you guys out there you're you probably are the same way that you would if you had an experience with something when you were younger and it kind of colors your impression of it to this day.

[2:38] Robert W Schneider: So because I did it in college I think I'm more tied to that version so it's deeper but I went back and listened to it and I just I love how raw it is I love how it's um there's so earnest in it and I and I think that speaks to this show you know and so I really love the original.

[2:55] Kevin David Thomas: I enjoy the York and I love the new one and I love the encores and all of that but what about you?

[3:00] Robert W Schneider: I was gonna say I'm also the same way with you. I love the original I think what's so interesting is is that like you're right the rawness and the innocence that those actual actors had you can hear on the recording which fits the characters indeed now they cast it older usually usually they cast people in their 40s and then they have them play that they're in their twenties and stuff but I love the innocence that the first recording brings us.

[3:20] Kevin David Thomas: And it seems that we talked to Michael Levine the the music uh uh director and uh sheet music archivist you might say and he uh he had auditioned for it because and he had heard from Sondheim way back in the day that uh they wanted to go even younger. They wanted they were first looking at teenagers for for these roles.

[3:36] Robert W Schneider: So I find that very interesting.

[3:44] Kevin David Thomas: I heard Jonathan Tunick once give a talk, and they're like, Why was it so big and so brassy? And he said, when Hal and Steve first talked to me, they said that like they said, keep picturing babes in arms. Like keep picturing babes in arms. Like, let's put on a show.

[3:58] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[3:59] Kevin David Thomas: And he's like, So he's like, so I kept listening to like these old big MGM musicals, and and he even said in the in the interview, he goes, Yeah, and then when I saw what the show was, he was like, I don't think I orchestrated this correctly.

[4:10] Robert W Schneider: I disagree.

[4:10] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I love that overture alone, like that the the trumpet playing in that. I mean, it's but that's why he said there was it's such a big brassy Broadway sound. He's like, because the image was babes in arms.

[4:20] Robert W Schneider: Well, he nailed it.

[4:21] Kevin David Thomas: I mean he did nail it. We want him for this show so bad. Mr. Tunick, where are you?

[4:26] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, if anyone anybody has a way to reach Mr. Tunick and uh dear Mr. Tunick and put in the good word for us, yeah.

[4:32] Kevin David Thomas: His letter. I I hope you like that.

[4:35] Robert W Schneider: I hope you like it. I love Rob, you know I love it when you sing.

[4:38] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, nobody else does.

[4:39] Robert W Schneider: Hey, things that you enjoy, that also falls under the category of favorite things.

[4:47] Kevin David Thomas: I love when we say it like the saddest public access children's TV show.

[4:51] Robert W Schneider: No, wait, I have to ask you. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question, but listeners, you're gonna have to just go with me for a second and just trust me. You were talking to me about something you found on the internet a while ago.

[5:01] Kevin David Thomas: You know what we're talking about.

[5:03] Robert W Schneider: Of course. Yes, yes, yes.

[5:05] Kevin David Thomas: But my qu no my question is, is that going to be one of your favorite things at some point?

[5:10] Robert W Schneider: If I can do it in a way that is positive.

[5:14] Kevin David Thomas: Great.

[5:15] Robert W Schneider: Awesome. You you understand, friends, that sometimes there in our business there are things that are posted that are entertaining, and sometimes not for maybe the reason that the person intended for it to be entertaining.

[5:27] Kevin David Thomas: Is that a good diplomatic way of saying?

[5:28] Robert W Schneider: I love that. And and I want to celebrate it. However, I don't want to make fun, but I want to celebrate it and lift it up.

[5:35] Kevin David Thomas: So so that I will I I guess in the future I will be bringing that up.

[5:39] Robert W Schneider: Okay, then I won't we will refer back to this episode then at some point. But I just want to say that the thing you told me about, I went down the rabbit hole last night and watched and my jaw was on the floor.

[5:50] Kevin David Thomas: Maybe we should just talk about it now.

[5:52] Robert W Schneider: No, no, I think I think it's good to build it up like you said.

[5:54] Kevin David Thomas: Sorry, everybody. I know you were like, God damn it, Kevin, and I'm not sure. If you if you have an idea of what it is, you can totally reach out to the video. It's on YouTube and it's yeah, it's been on for years.

[6:07] Robert W Schneider: Okay, I can't I can't talk anymore. So I want to say thank you, Kevin, because you've introduced me to a favorite thing, but I cannot talk about it because I know at some point it's going to be your favorite thing. Or maybe you'll beat me to it. Who knows?

[6:16] Kevin David Thomas: It's about time that we actually had the same favorite thing at the exact same moment. We've only done like what 90 of these times two. So it's 180 favorite things or so.

[6:24] Robert W Schneider: Oh, but you know what uh you know what's so funny though? There's still so many things that we have not covered yet.

[6:28] Kevin David Thomas: I agree. Because every once in a while, I'm so like, why haven't we talked about this show yet? Or why haven't we talked about it?

[6:32] Robert W Schneider: Right, or I'll have to do a search and think, oh well, surely we must have talked about XYZ, and then it'll be like the not since Carrie when you were you know you think oh my hell.

[6:42] Kevin David Thomas: And once again, Ken Mandelbaum emailed us.

[6:45] Robert W Schneider: God, if you want to come on the show, Ken, you've got an open invitation, please join us.

[6:48] Kevin David Thomas: That's right. We've got some exciting guests coming up, by the way.

[6:51] Robert W Schneider: Yeah. We won't say who because we want to make sure it all gets confirmed, but we're we're very good.

[6:56] Kevin David Thomas: It's really good.

[6:57] Robert W Schneider: So Kevin, your favorite thing.

[6:58] Kevin David Thomas: Let me see. It's good because it Ken Mandelbaum was actually a part of my favorite thing.

[7:02] Robert W Schneider: Ooh.

[7:03] Kevin David Thomas: Ooh. Uh my favorite thing is a little outside of the box from what we have usually done. It is not a book, it is not a show, it is not uh a a YouTube clip. Uh it actually is a publication.

[7:15] Robert W Schneider: It is a publication that this will give it away, but it is a publication that is no longer being published.

[7:22] Kevin David Thomas: It ran quarterly from about The Rob Schneider newsletter.

[7:30] Robert W Schneider: It is a single tear going down the side of my face.

[7:34] Kevin David Thomas: That's right. They literally wrote back, does not live here anymore when the fan letter went out.

[7:39] Robert W Schneider: So I'm they clicked the unsubscribe.

[7:41] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. So this uh this is this was four times a year this came out. It was a very nice magazine.

[7:48] Robert W Schneider: It ended in 2002.

[7:50] Kevin David Thomas: And it was called Show Music Magazine.

[7:54] Robert W Schneider: I didn't even get a chance to guess.

[7:55] Kevin David Thomas: I know I'm sorry, Rob. I didn't even get a chance to guess. I'm too excited about it.

[7:59] Robert W Schneider: So I found my six issues that I have from my I have six issues from around uh 1999 to 2002. Um let me give you a little context first before I tell you about my issues.

[8:09] Kevin David Thomas: Uh so uh my issues.

[8:11] Robert W Schneider: We know you got issues.

[8:12] Kevin David Thomas: Amen.

[8:13] Robert W Schneider: Um but my my physical issues.

[8:16] Kevin David Thomas: Oops, even there I've got issues.

[8:17] Robert W Schneider: Um yeah, it was I don't whoa dying on me. I don't know. I just gotta I'm I'm excited about my favorite. Stay with me, Kevin. Stay with me.

[8:24] Kevin David Thomas: So Max E. Prio, who is on the cast, he he kind of is a um a force behind the cast recording email list serve that um some of us are a part of in the cast recording fan club world.

[8:36] Robert W Schneider: But in 1981, he started a newsletter. It was a very bare bones thing, and he would put it out, and then over the years it gained popularity.

[8:43] Kevin David Thomas: Um, and it was just simply about musical theater, the cast recordings, video, all of that kind of stuff.

[8:48] Robert W Schneider: And in 1991, Goodspeed Opera House in uh Haddam, East Haddam, Connecticut, um, they have got the wonderful big musical theater library there that's never been. I have never been, and people have told me, they've said, Kevin, you've got to go see it because I love sheet music and all of that.

[9:01] Kevin David Thomas: And they have a real amazing resources there, uh, and lots of uh music and and and history in their library.

[9:09] Robert W Schneider: So they they teamed up with him in 1991, and so they started this publication in a on a bigger level with subscribers and all of that.

[9:16] Kevin David Thomas: And so eventually over the years, uh they would release, like I said, four uh magazines.

[9:21] Robert W Schneider: And these magazines uh were beautiful. I mean, they were glossy, they were uh very well made, very well done, they were curated by some of the great writers that we still have today, the editor of Playbill, the you know, they this is you know, going back 20 20 years ago, over 20 years ago, and and so this is where a lot of them got their start in writing because let's face it, guys, there's only a there's a very small our niche of the world is a little small, let's just be honest.

[9:45] Kevin David Thomas: Are you telling me that the general population does not sing the score to Fiorello in their cars?

[9:50] Robert W Schneider: Uh one of my so one of my favorite things about this magazine is when you go back and look at the old issues, you there's so many ads, but they're not ads for anything that the rest of the world would actually take up.

[9:59] Kevin David Thomas: It's mostly like for the first time on CD, the me nobody knows, full page ad.

[10:05] Robert W Schneider: Full page. And you know we'd buy it.

[10:07] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah. And we're excited about all the the cabaret artists that nobody's ever heard of, they're still there.

[10:14] Robert W Schneider: But what I love about this magazine, and you can find blows things, hoogie car, Michael. Seriously, they're you and this like really horrible picture, like a headshot that's like their cover of their album, and but you gotta give them credit for like getting it out there and going for it.

[10:26] Kevin David Thomas: But usually like a very smoky lens, like wrapped in white linen.

[10:29] Robert W Schneider: Yep.

[10:30] Kevin David Thomas: And it's like a horrible title, you know.

[10:33] Robert W Schneider: I love those titles.

[10:34] Kevin David Thomas: The road you didn't take, and then you're like, oh, wow.

[10:37] Robert W Schneider: So we have to scratch this one.

[10:39] Kevin David Thomas: Right. But there, but they're it's full of that. But then within the magazine, you have like, you know, Ken Mandelbaum, who was reviewing shows at the time.

[10:46] Robert W Schneider: So you get his full page review of a show. You'll have, you know, the newest shows on CD at the C D, listen to me. But yeah, C D at the time.

[10:53] Kevin David Thomas: Then they'd have like in the vault. So you would get them, they would review CDs from years ago. Maybe the London cast recording of Where's Charlie, you know.

[11:00] Robert W Schneider: And so as someone in the before the internet and all of that, or before it was as popular as it is now, that was a great place to go to hear people talk about the things that you love the most and be able to hear.

[11:12] Kevin David Thomas: And then they would have cover stories and they would talk about Cameron Macintosh and one, or Karen Mason was on the cover of one of the one of them.

[11:18] Robert W Schneider: So I know exactly what you're talking about.

[11:21] Kevin David Thomas: I used to buy them.

[11:22] Robert W Schneider: Oh yeah. Because there was a Samuel French bookstore on Ventura Boulevard in California.

[11:27] Kevin David Thomas: Samuel French had a bookstore.

[11:28] Robert W Schneider: Like the Oh, yeah, don't you have one in New York?

[11:31] Kevin David Thomas: I no, I don't think I don't remember.

[11:32] Robert W Schneider: I don't know if the publisher of Samuel French.

[11:34] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, but it was a the it was it Samuel French in Los Angeles was like the drama bookshop in New York.

[11:39] Robert W Schneider: I didn't I like to like you would go on Ventura Boulevard and they would have all the books and all the scripts and everything.

[11:44] Kevin David Thomas: But they would have a magazine section.

[11:46] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[11:46] Kevin David Thomas: And I would go and I would always get Playbill.

[11:49] Robert W Schneider: Of course.

[11:49] Kevin David Thomas: I got a subscriber in high school.

[11:51] Robert W Schneider: Oh, God bless you.

[11:52] Kevin David Thomas: Playbill, Show Music, Classic and the Sondheim Review.

[11:52] Robert W Schneider: Uh the Sondheim Review, which is still published to the show.

[11:58] Kevin David Thomas: Which is still published, which is I'm assuming we'll talk about it on a favorite thing at some point. And that's a little more uh more, I want to say basic, but it's not as produced as this magazine was.

[12:07] Kevin David Thomas: But you're right. That magazine was a magazine. Full color glossy. Do you remember when they used to publish scripts? I was gonna bring that up. One of the really cool things that this magazine did, probably about once a year, they would publish the full libretto for shows. I mean, for shows. Like the ones that I have is Parade. They have the Triumph of Love. They did Big, which I—oh, Big. Do you know what they did with Big?

[12:31] Robert W Schneider: No.

[12:31] Kevin David Thomas: They did this thing with Big where they did the original script that was on Broadway, and then they showed you an addendum of what was changed for the road and why it was changed. Now, there's only a handful of people who would really dig that, but I think that is just me. Hands raised. But I think that is just a really, really great—I love that. I'm gonna go try to find that magazine now, that back.

[12:54] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yeah, and you can find these now. There are a couple on eBay, there are a couple on Amazon. They're a little more expensive on Amazon.

[13:00] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, so let's do this, Kevin. Let's not tell everyone. Let's just buy them as soon as we finish.

[13:05] Robert W Schneider: Well, because you temporarily unavailable. I pulled my six out the other day, and I thought, oh, I'm just gonna look at these for research for this podcast. I pulled all six out yesterday and got a lot of dirty looks.

[13:19] Kevin David Thomas: Uh-oh.

[13:20] Robert W Schneider: Never mind. Oh, God, Rob. Last time I go to that Burger King.

[13:26] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God.

[13:29] Robert W Schneider: My point is that they are timeless, that they may be from 1996, 97, 98 to 2002, but they really are—they still stand today. I find them really fun to see who succeeded, who did not, who's still in the business, who's not. Not even that, but you really—the opinions still stay the same. I like reading these reviews of these people that I respect. One of the things I remember reading in that magazine, and I like to go back and look at it every once in a while, was Ken Mandelbaum wrote an article about ten musicals. I think there's a 1996 or seven. Ten musicals that had not been revived yet and were due for a revival. And it's nice to now go back and take a look and go, oh, okay, these have actually been off the list. This is who we assumed was gonna be cast, as it was who was cast.

[14:14] Kevin David Thomas: Right.

[14:15] Robert W Schneider: Like I know Kiss Me, Kate was on the list. Check, we've had a Kiss Me, Kate. I think, um, was it—oh, on a clear day? One of the—anyway, but like that—it's so nice to go back and check. Oh no, Finian's Rainbow.

[14:28] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, oh yeah.

[14:29] Robert W Schneider: I remember reading it being like, that one's gonna be a revival of Finian and the Rainbow. Who knew? We had a revival.

[14:34] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, we did.

[14:35] Robert W Schneider: So that's fun. Show Music Magazine. I like to celebrate it. Go online, check them out. You can't—the thing that is, is they're not—no one's scanned them into the internet. You have to literally buy them in order to read these articles. And they are really fun articles, and they are timeless. So Show Music Magazine is my favorite thing.

[14:56] Kevin David Thomas: And why don't we have one of those today?

[14:58] Robert W Schneider: Or what's Max doing?

[14:59] Kevin David Thomas: I am, yeah, well, I think he's in Vegas. And he still posts on that cast recording list. And I was gonna email him just to ask him how things are going. But I imagine that it was the—it's simple, simply cost. You know, we're in a day and age where printed—you know, we have a hard enough time getting newspapers sold, you know, and magazines are on their way out. We've had tons of magazines, famous, well-known magazines that have gone by the wayside. So it actually is no wonder that with only, you know, at some point five to six thousand subscribers was their peak. You know, it's hard to sustain that, especially at the quality and the level that they were giving it. So I give them credit for saying, you know what, we're not gonna just lower it. Our standard, we're just—we're out of it for now. Good for it.

[15:38] Robert W Schneider: But I miss it. I miss that information. But the other thing is you can get it all online now.

[15:42] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[15:43] Robert W Schneider: Well, let's go on a hunt. I'll find as many as you can. You can find as many as you can. I can see if we can get a full collection. What we should do is then, well, we have to get permission, but scan them and get them online so people can read these things.

[15:54] Kevin David Thomas: All right, you talk to Max and we'll go from there.

[15:57] Robert W Schneider: Yes, how exciting. What's your favorite thing?

[15:59] Kevin David Thomas: My favorite thing was actually inspired by you.

[16:03] Robert W Schneider: Uh oh.

[16:03] Kevin David Thomas: Because you like to mention a lot of orchestrators.

[16:05] Robert W Schneider: I do like to mention the music team on this show. I'm biased a little bit.

[16:08] Kevin David Thomas: So I am gonna send an orchestrator your way.

[16:11] Robert W Schneider: Oh.

[16:11] Kevin David Thomas: I know, right? Because I think we've talked about this previously, that the job of an orchestrator is really underrated and really underappreciated. And an orchestrator does so much and so many things that we hear musically that are iconic to musical theater. More often than not, or it's sometimes being triggered by the instrumentation.

[16:27] Robert W Schneider: True.

[16:33] Kevin David Thomas: The saxophone there, the clarinet here, the trombone here. Yeah, the big brass sound, all of that. And that belongs to the job. That's the orchestrator's purview. Yes, the composer gave us maybe the melody and the notes and all that stuff, but the orchestrator's job is to flesh it out.

[16:47] Robert W Schneider: That's right, give texture, color, tone, and help tell the story.

[16:53] Kevin David Thomas: They're really good. And I think my guy today is really, really good. So I'm going to throw an orchestrator your way. We're gonna go back to always the golden age.

[17:02] Robert W Schneider: Well, not always, but mostly the golden age.

[17:03] Kevin David Thomas: We're going back to the golden age. We're going back to an orchestrator. Here's the clue. I hope I'm articulating this correctly. When the mainstream public—not us Broadway folks, but when the mainstream public hears musical theater, more often than not, they're hearing the work of this gentleman.

[17:21] Robert W Schneider: Not a recent person.

[17:22] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[17:23] Robert W Schneider: Not a recent person. Old school.

[17:25] Kevin David Thomas: Not Winsler.

[17:26] Robert W Schneider: No.

[17:29] Kevin David Thomas: Do you know?

[17:30] Robert W Schneider: I see a smile.

[17:31] Kevin David Thomas: Uh, I'm gonna guess.

[17:33] Robert W Schneider: Here he goes.

[17:34] Kevin David Thomas: Ralph Burns.

[17:35] Robert W Schneider: It is the incomparable Ralph Burns.

[17:38] Kevin David Thomas: He did like every single show.

[17:40] Robert W Schneider: But not everyone. There were, I mean, there was definitely other guys that helped each other out at the time, too.

[17:49] Kevin David Thomas: Steven Suskin wrote a whole book about it.

[17:52] Robert W Schneider: But yes, Ralph Burns was the guy.

[17:54] Kevin David Thomas: Ralph Burns.

[17:55] Robert W Schneider: Okay, so listen to this. So Ralph Burns started off as a jazz pianist.

[17:59] Kevin David Thomas: Of course.

[18:00] Robert W Schneider: Right. Played in the Woody Herman band, worked with Neil Hefty. And if you don't—do you know Neil Hefty?

[18:05] Kevin David Thomas: No, I thought you were going to talk about Hefty's Hideaway, but from Hairspray.

[18:08] Robert W Schneider: But no, not at all.

[18:09] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I thought you meant like poor man's Hernando's Hideaway. Like we can't afford the entire name Hernando.

[18:14] Robert W Schneider: But we did Netford T D last year, and we've got some of those letters left over. So it'll just be Hefty's Hideaway.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: He worked with Neil Hefty for our listeners who know his music. You might not know the name, but you do know the theme to Batman.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: No Neil Hefty.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: And a personal favorite of mine, the Odd Couple theme song.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: Dun dun dun da dun dun da dun dun.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: Kevin just shaking his head.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: I don't know an Odd Couple at all.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: That's okay. That was actually one of the ideas I was gonna have for the theme song for this show.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: Really?

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I think that's—we should play Oscar and Felix somewhere.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: Okay.

[19:10] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I would like that. Woodstock Playhouse. Beef and Board's Dinner Theater. Totem Pole Arena. They like to play Odd Couple.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: You know, because I know that's how you cast. The actresses come to you and say this is what they want to do, and you're like, sure. Joyce DeWitt, it's gonna be great. If we can get Joyce to win on Sally Struthers' The Pigeon Sisters, I will be so happy.

[19:10] Robert W Schneider: Anyway, Ralph Burns works with the Woody Herman band, worked with Neil Hefty, and then went off to orchestrate and arrange so many Broadway musicals. Some of the lesser-known ones, not the Frank lesser-known ones, but like the lesser-known ones.

[19:22] Kevin David Thomas: We have things like, you know, No Strings.

[19:22] Robert W Schneider: Something with No Strings was big.

[19:27] Kevin David Thomas: Stuff like that.

[19:29] Robert W Schneider: But here we go. This is what we know him for.

[19:30] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[19:30] Robert W Schneider: And this is why I say the mainstream public.

[19:33] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah.

[19:35] Robert W Schneider: Sweet Charity.

[19:36] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God.

[19:39] Robert W Schneider: That brass. He loved using that brass. So when we—like I said, the general public knows Big Spender. The general public knows All That Jazz. The general public—oh, because he also won the Oscar. He won the Oscar twice. He won the Oscar once for Bob Fosse's Cabaret, and he won the Oscar again.

[19:56] Kevin David Thomas: I think you called it Bob Fosse's Cabaret.

[19:58] Robert W Schneider: It is Bob Fosse's Cabaret.

[19:59] Kevin David Thomas: It is?

[20:00] Robert W Schneider: I think so.

[20:01] Kevin David Thomas: As opposed to Candor and Ebb's Cabaret.

[20:02] Robert W Schneider: No, I like in a—when there's like wood plays are revived, and it's like August Wilson's Jitney.

[20:06] Kevin David Thomas: That's why I was the best.

[20:08] Robert W Schneider: No, it's Bob Fosse's Cabaret. Bob Fosse's All That Jazz.

[20:11] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, what I hate to tell you this. I've not seen that movie since college, and I don't remember it at all.

[20:18] Robert W Schneider: So I need—but it's not online. You have to like—I own the Blu-ray.

[20:22] Kevin David Thomas: Can I borrow it?

[20:23] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, absolutely.

[20:23] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my God. Thanks, guys, for listening to that. If you want to help Kevin find an All That Jazz Blu-ray, contact Kevin David Thomas at—I don't know what you're—but anyway.

[20:34] Robert W Schneider: So Ralph Burns, but yes, so this jazzy, brassy texture, like you said, the wah wah wah wah is iconic.

[20:45] Kevin David Thomas: That's Ralph Burns.

[20:47] Robert W Schneider: Oh, so good.

[20:49] Kevin David Thomas: The All That Jazz beginning is Ralph Burns.

[20:54] Robert W Schneider: Well, clearly he and Kander—he must have had a real thing for John Kander.

[20:58] Kevin David Thomas: Me or John Kander had a thing for Ralph Burns.

[21:00] Robert W Schneider: Sure. Because a lot of composers pick their orchestrator often. And they know who they like, they know what kind of sound they're looking for, and it really is up to the composer to really say, hey, this guy, this is who I think will really represent me.

[21:12] Kevin David Thomas: Just think of the next time what I'd love everyone to do is to go and listen to a song from Sweet Charity or Chicago or listen to the cabaret, maybe this time. The texture on all of that, the money song, that is all Ralph Burns. Yes, John Kander wrote the music, but Ralph Burns gave it a life that we could not have imagined previously.

[21:36] Robert W Schneider: And it's so interesting to think of so many songs where I think the texture in the orchestration helps push the song along.

[21:42] Kevin David Thomas: I'm gonna be honest with you. Send in the Clowns. The beginning. The clarinet. That clarinet solo tells us with warmth, with longing, with melancholy, exactly what this song is going to be about.

[21:55] Robert W Schneider: He could have chosen a flute.

[21:57] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah.

[21:57] Robert W Schneider: This is Jonathan Tunick we're talking about.

[21:59] Kevin David Thomas: Jonathan Tunick or strings.

[22:00] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[22:01] Kevin David Thomas: And he knew exactly evoked this feeling that the audience needed to help tell us what a great orchestrator does. And I think Ralph Burns does it so incredibly well.

[22:11] Robert W Schneider: And the reason I wanted to celebrate Ralph Burns was I was really proud of myself with my musical ear. I was listening to the original, the revival cast recording of No, No, Nanette.

[22:22] Kevin David Thomas: And, uh, like I do every day.

[22:23] Robert W Schneider: Like you do.

[22:24] Kevin David Thomas: Like you do. That's one of the shows that you said you would have to do it.

[22:27] Robert W Schneider: It's a big one for me.

[22:28] Kevin David Thomas: It's a big one. And we got to—you can dance with any girl at all. And in the middle of the dance break, there was some sort of musical phrase that I'm like, this sounds so familiar to me. This orchestration, where have I heard it before?

[22:41] Robert W Schneider: It is note for note a same orchestration in the Hot Honey Rag at the end of Chicago.

[22:50] Kevin David Thomas: Really?

[22:50] Robert W Schneider: And I thought to myself, what—why would No, No, Nanette and Chicago sound alike? And I was like, let me do my research. And the thing I found connecting them was Ralph Burns. And he probably was doing them just a couple years apart.

[23:05] Kevin David Thomas: So he was fresh in his head.

[23:06] Robert W Schneider: And you know, and that's not a copying thing. I'm just saying.

[23:08] Kevin David Thomas: No, but they—and a lot of people writers have their patterns and they have their go-to ways of, you know, that no one would ever notice unless you are obsessed like we are and listen to it over and over again.

[23:16] Robert W Schneider: So I wanted to celebrate Ralph Burns because I think his orchestrations are great. I think they are the epitome of Broadway, and I think more people know him without realizing it than they think. So I wanted to make sure that Ralph Burns got the appreciation that he deserves today.

[23:30] Kevin David Thomas: So my guy is Ralph Burns.

[23:32] Robert W Schneider: I'm so, so glad. And your guy or my guy is Show Music Magazine.

[23:37] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, great. We will see you all next week.

[23:39] Robert W Schneider: Bye everybody.

[23:41] Kevin David Thomas: Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens, bright copper kettles and worn woolen mittens, brown paper packages tied up with strings. These are a few of my favorite things.

[23:54] Kevin David Thomas: These are a few of my favorite things.