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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" — performed by Unknown artist ♪

[0:17] Kevin David Thomas: Happy throwback Thursday, everybody. Hello, everybody. How's it going? I'm doing how you doing, Rob?

[0:21] Robert W Schneider: I'm doing good, Kevin. Thank you for asking. So, Kevin, how is your crystal collecting?

[0:29] Kevin David Thomas: Well, let's tell you, we spent an evening sitting down on the living room floor. I put some plastic down to put a towel, put a bucket, a sifter. We had a toothbrush, getting all the dirt off the diamonds. I did have a date like that once where there was a huge lay down plastic. Right now, stop it right now. And found some great crystals actually had a huge haul, amazing. Yeah, it was really fun. We separated them by shards, by full crystals, by crystals that are really beautifully defined. Yeah, it was well.

[1:01] Robert W Schneider: Now that we've talked about your crystals, can we talk about your ranettes and chiffons? It's a little musical theater joke there, kids. There on my friends is a musical theater joke. Now, fun fact, I love musicals that have the old sort of Greek chorus, you know. Remember Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark? Do you remember early in previews they had a Greek chorus? The nerds, were they called the nerds or I actually saw a preview with the nerd chorus in it, and they delegated them to just off stage right and stage left. They made these sort of voms almost that were where they would just comment on the action of Spider-Man. It was the craziest thing. You should have just sat up in my seat where I was commenting on the action of Spider-Man. Can I get a chorus credit?

[1:47] Kevin David Thomas: Hey, question for you. And I was I know we do we we try not to do politics. Um sorry. Um, did you watch any of the DNC in the last couple nights?

[1:55] Robert W Schneider: Yes, I've watched them every night.

[1:57] Kevin David Thomas: I have too, every single moment of it. And I think it's very theatrical in many ways. I mean, as a production, I'm curious. You as a producer who now you're gonna be doing a benefit on next, I don't even know when it is.

[2:09] Robert W Schneider: On Friday, it's tomorrow.

[2:10] Kevin David Thomas: Thank you. Oh my gosh, well, thank you. It's tomorrow. I'm like, I'm so stupid. It's tomorrow. What don't so stupid? So, did you see anything you learned? Did you see because to me it had a very, I mean yeah, last night was a very emotional night. You could tell they really leaned on that. Talking about anything as a director producer, did you notice things? Because I'm curious because I have, and I'm just one of am I alone?

[2:31] Robert W Schneider: Oh, no one is alone. Truly, no one is alone.

[2:35] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, fine. Well, don't was not asked to sing that at the freaking thing. Um, I wasn't asked to sing at the convention. Uh have I noticed anything? Yeah, you know what? Look, it's incredibly well produced. I mean, they I think they realize that it's now has to be like an infomercial, you know. It feels like a documentary almost. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, I don't know what the Republicans have planned for next week. But well, listen, well, I am waiting to see. I'm so curious. I am curious. I will say this though, in all honesty, I have my own thoughts about that party, and I will be quiet because that's not what we're talking about today. If it's as successful in terms of production value as the convention this week, then I have no problem with every time there's a convention, even when we're out of COVID, if it goes in this realm, like there's you know, clear, it's so like you pay attention.

There's no screaming constantly. There's no screaming. There's none of that. It's just literally let me talk to the camera and make an appeal on why you think or why I think you should vote for me. And if that's gonna be similar to next week's convention, um, then I have no problem if in every four years the convention is held in this way.

[3:50] Kevin David Thomas: I was very moved by the roll call, seeing the actual geographic locations, seeing the diversity that makes up this particular party, seeing the diversity that makes up the country. I'm liking the fact that every night is led off by like a celebrity narrator that like walks you through the process. I really enjoy that. And I think the speeches are more effective.

[4:13] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I think so. Very much so. You know, last night I think President Obama's speech would have, yes, it would have been very effective with a crowd and the screaming and the cheering, but there was something more effective by it is just this man looking directly into the camera with no other noise.

[4:29] Kevin David Thomas: Well, that's why I feel like I am they had to have tapped into some resource that understands theatricality because the setting was not all the same. They used it to their advantage. Kamala Harris giving her speech.

[4:42] Robert W Schneider: Oh, you muted yourself, Kev.

[4:44] Kevin David Thomas: There you go. Sorry. Kevin got so excited. So pumped up. No, so talking about the different venues, and how you know someone in the big arena, and then they deliberately put Obama with that backdrop, that setting, that scene, you know. And I just think it's very it's direct. It's it's it is directed and it's produced. Directed look. So I'm uh I'd be curious who the sort of back channel, the puppeteer of some of that stuff is because it was it's I mean, they must have I mean, I've I have to des Mag enough, he was really working hard for that. There weren't enough screens. There weren't enough, there weren't enough screens behind the actors, so I don't, I don't, I don't think it was a des Maganoff production. Um, I am interested to see how next week's looks, how next week's looks. And indeed, I'm interested to see who their speakers are gonna be. Um, so we'll I am I will what I will watch, I will watch both.

[5:37] Kevin David Thomas: Um although the one thing I'm really I'm having trouble with on this one, yes, is because I'm like, do you remember in funny thing happened on the way to the forum where like in the middle of like a scene, Erroneous will pop in and he's like, first time around, of course, because they told him to walk around through this.

[5:54] Robert W Schneider: I did the show in high school, yeah.

[5:55] Kevin David Thomas: Okay, so to me, Joe Biden feels a little bit like erroneous because at the end of like every speech someone makes, he like sort of just pops in, and you're like, Where were you? Where were you learning? At the end of the night, at the end of the night, the last three nights. He's just like, Oh, there's Joe coming in from stage left. Hey, you're like, but I if just like irrelevant. I just want him to go first time around, and then off he goes. That's that's what I'm that's what I'm looking for. But yeah, so yes, I have been watching. I think they are produced. I'm very interested to see next week. Um, to see how uh how they handle it because that party is not particularly known for their artistic sensibility.

[6:32] Robert W Schneider: So I'm I mean, do we remember Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair for 40 minutes at one of the conventions?

[6:39] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, there was definitely some avant-garde theatricality. Oh, you know what? You know what? Maybe I should take it back. Maybe that maybe the Republicans are more avant garde than I was because he's yeah, that's true. They might not realize that's what they're doing at this point. Well, sorry, Republicans, congratulations. I'm I'm very impressed with your theatrical know-how. Trump is like he wants it to look like our toe meets Beckett. That's like that's the one instruction he's given people. Um he is well that it's something. So yes, I have been watching. Uh I was what I was happy to see Billy Porter, musical theater on the first one.

[7:13] Robert W Schneider: The musical theater connections.

[7:14] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, that was nice. Yeah, and it's I love seeing Carrie Washington. I love see it's good. I'm I like how it's being produced, and I would have no problem if this is the way it continues on. It's effective. To me, it's effective. Um yes, so anyway, that's that. Hey, also don't forget this Saturday night at eight o'clock Eastern Standard Time. Um, we are doing another trivia night.

[7:33] Robert W Schneider: It's Saturday night trivia.

[7:35] Kevin David Thomas: We're back, and the theme is revivals, revivals, revivals, and sometimes revivals of revivals. That's right. Some of them many, many, many times. And the different changes, you might do a little homework, see if what's maybe songs were in one and not another. Maybe little bits and pieces. Maybe um, maybe revivals that were supposed to come in but never came in. So you should do your revival work.

[8:03] Robert W Schneider: Yes. Question for you, Rob. Are we only talking about musicals or are we talking about plays as well?

[8:08] Kevin David Thomas: Just musicals. We're not dealing with play revivals, folks, just musical revivals. Now, here's something I found somewhat interesting, and I'm going to share it. That revivals really were not a big thing on Broadway until no known and net in the 1970s. That that's really what kicked all of this off.

[8:22] Robert W Schneider: Yeah. They used to have like revivals at City Center, you know.

[8:28] Kevin David Thomas: Right. And Lincoln Center as well.

[8:30] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, and those run like five performances, six performances.

[8:33] Kevin David Thomas: That's right. Um, but like the actual like, hey, we're gonna bring a show back is is new.

[8:38] Robert W Schneider: So new, you're right, it was so new. I mean, like it wasn't it was an idea yet that you would you would actually it would go on tour, you know. Like I'm thinking like MAME all those years later, or something, or not that was before, but you know, the same production, but um to reinvent something, you know, to re to take Fiddler and not do, you know, some of the original staging.

[8:56] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, that was sacrilege.

[8:59] Robert W Schneider: Sacrilege. And I listen, I'm gonna go. No, that it would the the Tony Nom the Tony category I didn't know started in the nineties. I did not I totally forgot about that, Robin.

[9:07] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, it used to, I mean, it used to be lumped together as best uh revival of a play and or musical. So it was one category, one category that you're both, and then in 1994, they split off and it was best musical.

[9:21] Robert W Schneider: Some trivia for you, Kevin. Do you remember what musical was the first to win the best revival?

[9:29] Kevin David Thomas: First musical win best revival in 1994. Uh what it carousel?

[9:35] Robert W Schneider: It is carousel, yes, it is carousel.

[9:37] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, yes. And and what once again, I'm reading it's not my favorite thing this week, but I just love reading it so much as once again Don Dunn's great book, The Making of No No Nanette.

[9:47] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I got it.

[9:48] Kevin David Thomas: Which is such a fantastic book, but really dis like explores how like the revival came to be. And of course, also for more revival research, you can go to Ethan Morton's One More Kiss, the Broadway musical in the 1970s, which has a fantastic chapter in here about revival, specifically No No Nanette. You know, we this week we had an interview, listeners with a Broadway historian and has put out numerous, numerous books on the subject. And I question because they all all the historians sort of all know each other or know of each other, and you were saying, you know, have you you know traded ideas and all that, and you guys will listen to the interview. But um I do find it interesting that all of the names, they all come back, you know, from Gerald Boardman to Steven Suskin to Ken Mandelbaum.

I mean, we really only have a handful of these people putting out these books. I don't know, and I just I don't have a big point, but I just think it's really wild when we see them always coming up over and over again. It just shows how important it is. Um, those of you, if you're anyone out there who is doing the research and doing the work, like you are Rob, you're putting together a book right now.

[10:49] Robert W Schneider: Thank you so much.

[10:50] Kevin David Thomas: Do the work how important how important that is. You know that I agree is something because we are using those resources still as a even Ethan Morden as opinionated as as we love him to be I love Ethan's books. That's a reference book. I love his book. And that was our guest this past week you know that we talked to said the same exact thing. You know it's a good friend. The wonderful professional you bringing it up and I and I need to get this known on a net book because to me that's exactly what it is.

[11:18] Kevin David Thomas: It's like it's so good to get with it. So good. It's and it's and it's gossipy and it's catty. And there's a lot of people mentioned in here that we've like talked to like Lockie Lonnie Ackerman, Carol Demas, Ed Dixon. Yeah, it's a good one. And then remember we did that concert of 54 Below and we had Roger Rathburn come in, remember and he sang "T for Two"? Sounded lovely. Just like when you've been in a show, you know, done so many hundreds of performances, he knew exactly how that was, you know, to go and it was just special. Muscle memory, muscle memory for that joke. It is, you know it well. Um, yeah, that's exactly it. Uh, much like uh Ernestine Jackson when she sang "If I Were a Bell" uh and I had the honor of getting to do that with her and it was uh when we were in that practice room at Shuttler Studios, uh it was like we had gone back in time to 1975, 76, uh and she was just belting her face off the original key, thank you very much.

Yeah, and the original key, thank you very much. Change, of course, you gotta have a jazzy key change as well. I love what I loved about Ernestine's performance was we did a sound check and all the kids were there because they're all like 20-year-olds in our ensemble, right? And their mouths were on the floor and gave that woman a standing ovation. This was in sound check, so she was pretty great. Um, hey, you know what else is great? Favorite things. Who shall go first?

[12:34] Robert W Schneider: Why don't you go first, Rob?

[12:36] Kevin David Thomas: Me? Oh, okay. So mine is musical theater related.

[12:42] Robert W Schneider: Okay.

[12:43] Kevin David Thomas: That I am very excited about. Although you really wouldn't think of it as a musical per se. And it is a film. It is a film from 1990. And it's one of these films that I'm surprised we have not talked about on the podcast yet. Um, and I had to I actually look back on our old episodes and I was like, oh shit, we really, I don't know how we've not talked about this. It is one of my favorite films of all time. I think you've seen it. I'm and I hope you like it as much as I do because it was a huge part, I think, of our childhood and growing up. Um, it's uh not a musical, but it has some songs written by Broadway's most famous composer and lyricist.

[13:22] Robert W Schneider: Stephen Sondheim.

[13:23] Kevin David Thomas: Is Steven Saunttime? It's from 1990. Stars Warren Beatty and Al Pacino. We've talked about Dick Tracy, haven't we?

[13:31] Robert W Schneider: I loved it.

[13:32] Kevin David Thomas: Was it a favorite thing?

[13:33] Robert W Schneider: It was a favorite thing.

[13:34] Kevin David Thomas: I'm sure it was a favorite thing.

[13:35] Robert W Schneider: Okay, so I looked, I that's Kevin. I'm I'm the same as you. I looked and I was like, it was one of my favorite things. It was definitely one of my favorite things. I remember doing my reason. We talked about back in business. We talked about. Okay, so here's uh the orchestrations were come on. Okay, so am I wrong? So here's here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let's do it again. I no, no, I I looked on all of our past episodes, right? And it is not there. I have a feeling that we talked about it once, but it was not, it was part of a favorite things episode, but it was not the favorite thing.

[14:16] Kevin David Thomas: This is a good one. This is such a good one, right? Because I look, I I looked, I did my due diligence. I looked at all of our past episodes, and I was like, how so jealous how not covered Dick Tracy. So anyway, I uh and I was like, I'm like, I feel like Kevin has talked about this before. I really did. And I was really had a I really remember doing. And I was like, we I was like, so maybe like where it's not. We we've never doing it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. You know, what is like the Mandela effect? Do you know the Mandela effect?

[14:51] Robert W Schneider: No, what's that mean?

[14:53] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, you don't know about the Mandela effect?

[14:55] Robert W Schneider: No, I don't know about the damn number Mandela effect.

[14:58] Kevin David Thomas: What it was the Mandela effect. Okay, this is really cool. The Mandela effect is this idea that when Melson, when Nelson Mandela died, yeah, right. Many, many, many, many people were like, what do you mean he died? He died like 10 years ago. I remember watching his funeral. Like a collective memory. This collective memory that's quote unquote incorrect, that like a whole group of individuals are like, no, no, no, that totally happened. I remember. Do you remember the Sinbad movie Shazam?

[15:31] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yes, of course.

[15:32] Kevin David Thomas: No, you don't, because there was no Sinbad movie named Shazam. And that's also a big man part of the Mandela effect. That we for some reason in our collective consciousness really funny. We feel like, yeah, there was a movie in the 90s with Sinbad called. Oh, I saw the neon lights and everything.

[15:51] Robert W Schneider: Yes, like I saw like neon blue, neon red and pink.

[15:57] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, but the movie never existed. But for some reason in our minds, we're like, I remember that. So I feel like Dick Tracy when I saw the episode in my head, I was like, it was numbered 904. It was he was paired with you know Harold Rome.

[16:13] Robert W Schneider: Yes, absolutely.

[16:14] Kevin David Thomas: So any so anyway, Dick Tracy. Sorry. Now are you doing the movie or the the soundtrack? Because I thought I did the soundtrack in my memory.

[16:20] Robert W Schneider: Maybe you did maybe maybe maybe you did that.

[16:25] Kevin David Thomas: Maybe not. I did not. I don't fucking know what we did anymore. Let's talk about it again because it's so sorry, folks. Dick Tracy is one of my favorite films. It uh where first of all it's based on the fantastic comic strip by Chester Gould. Um, if you remember Chester Gould did this, this it's a detective, he talks into a wristwatch before there were Apple watches. He was that ahead of the curve. He's always wearing a yellow trench coat, and he battled so many wonderful villains in the comic book, people like uh Big Boy and a Flecktop.

[16:52] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I like the taxi, yes.

[16:54] Kevin David Thomas: Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. And prune face. Anyway, in 1990, um, Warren Beatty directed and starred in a and produced um Dick Tracy the movie, which starred the the list of stars that show up in this movie, first of all, is like musical theater heaven. Not only is it Warren Beatty, it's for Al Pacino, who's not done a musical, but I would love to see him do a musical. Al Pacino plays his arch nemesis, Big Boy Caprice, and Al Pacino is what got an Oscar nomination for this, is so campy and so theatrical and so theatrical. And he said to Warren Beatty, he's like, I will do the film. I only have one stipulation, and he goes, I get to design my own costume and makeup. So when you see it, you'll actually see Al Pacino's work.

It also features Charles Derning, Dick Van Dyke, Kathy Bates with one line, Dustin Hoffman, Mandy Patinkin, Catherine O'Hara shows up. I think they cut her part, but she's like sitting there with everybody. Paul Servino, I mean, it's uh uh one of our former guests, Conrad John Schuck, um Estelle Parsons, Colm Meaney, like everywhere you look, you're like, I know that person.

[18:04] Robert W Schneider: Um, but the thing the movie is probably known for is for the movie did not get very good reviews. I don't know why.

[18:11] Kevin David Thomas: No, I know why.

[18:12] Robert W Schneider: It's because the year before Batman came out, remember Michael Keaton's Batman, and that movie was so brilliant, and so everyone just sort of compared Dick Tracy to Batman and was like wherever Dick Tracy is falling short. So anyway, it was it was unfortunate. However, you watch it now, and it's really enjoyable. It's enjoyable for two things. One, Richard Silbert's production design of this movie, is one of the most gorgeous you will ever see in your entire life. It is just fabulous. They only use um they limited their palette to seven colors. Uh, primarily red, green, blue, and yellow. And if you watch the movie, all of the colors are the same shade. Like the red in the dress is the same red that's the paint on the wall, which is the same red on like a chotchke on a shelf.

Like they have like done a brilliant, brilliant job. And I Richard Silver was uh given an Academy Award for this, and it's gorgeous. However, here's why we're talking about it today. Um, Danny Elfman wrote the uh the incidental music. He wrote the soundtrack of the film. But there's five standalone individual songs, three of them which were given to Madonna, because she played the female lead in the film. She played Breathless Mahoney.

[19:31] Kevin David Thomas: It was a favorite thing a year ago.

[19:31] Robert W Schneider: It was we did the I we did I'm Breathless, that's what it was. I just looked it up to keep going.

[19:36] Kevin David Thomas: But we did remember because I did I'm Breathless. Not the movie. But yes, gosh. Because yes, that's right. She did sing some of the Sondheim songs, but then Danny Elfman keep going. Yes, because there's two different albums. There's the movie album, the soundtrack, and then her solo album. I don't mean to step on your own.

[19:55] Robert W Schneider: No, you're not stepping out.

[19:56] Kevin David Thomas: I finally figured it out, and the listeners are yelling at us, being like, this is why. I could okay. So that so you did I'm Breathless. Okay. Okay. Madonna album. Um the Dick Tracy album. So there really is no Mandela effect here today, but just two old guys trying to remember what the hell happened. So Beatty asks Stephen Sondheim to write five pastiche sounding songs um to be used in uh in the movie. And they are five, uh five, actually, five of my favorite Sondheim songs. They're really good. There is um, thank you. There's more, which uh has like a very uh Irving Berlin type quality to it. Uh there's "Live Alone and Like It," which is very charming. Sung, um, it's you hear it played on the radio in the movie, but it's being sung by Mel Tour May.

You can also hear Michael Rupert singing and putting it together. Um, "Back in Business," which is the big showy, like, you know, montage number, and "What Can You Lose?" A torch song, Helen Morgan, song sung by Mandy Patinkin and Madonna. But the best song in this movie is called "Sooner or Later (I Always Get My Man)," which was sung by Madonna in the movie and was awarded with an Academy Award.

[21:22] Robert W Schneider: So if you have never seen Dick Tracy, and if according to the Mandela effect, if you're like, of course I watched Dick Tracy, you told us too on my favorite things, episode 103. Then I encourage you to go back and watch it again. And specifically focus on the beautiful songs that Stephen Sondheim has created for this piece. One of my favorite renditions of "Sooner or Later," if I may, is from the 1992 Sondheim tribute concert at Carnegie Hall, where Bert Bill Irwin comes out to conduct, but you know he's gonna do my work because it's Bill Irwin. And Karen Ziemba comes out and seduces him while singing "Sooner or Later," and literally doing gymnastics on a piano bench and the piano itself. So to see where that all came from, go watch Dick Tracy from 1990.

It's available on just about every single platform, or come over, I can act out the whole movie for you. And do the I uh the movie actually is, I think, very well made. And I do love the idea that Warren Beatty really uh it was a sort of a, you know, he did it to make money, but he really loved it.

[22:29] Robert W Schneider: I mean, he really wanted to make this as an art piece, and I appreciate that, you know, and I think it shows in the movie, in the filmmaking of it, because it's fascinating to see these Dustin Hoffman, his mumble. I mean, like, it's just really crazy to see these actors having fun. Do you know that the role of Mumbles came down to two actors? It was Dustin Hoffman and do you know who the other actor was?

[22:48] Kevin David Thomas: Literally had this conversation a year ago during the episode and I and then I still don't remember.

[22:53] Robert W Schneider: It's Gilbert Gottfried. That's Gilbert Gottfried. He said it's the yes, it's the only time in his life that he imagines Dustin Hoffman like won over a role on him, which I think is kind of incredible.

[23:05] Kevin David Thomas: I love Gilbert Gottfried, he should have been Dick Tracy. And if you're like me and you grew up around the, you know, the Walt Disney area, if you remember, they did a mini Dick Tracy musical in the early 90s at Disneyland. So if anyone was in that or knows, like can get us a bootleg, I'd love to see musical, yeah. They took, I mean, they took like Danny Elfman's score and they took Stephen Sondheim's songs, and they did like a 20, 30 minute musical.

[23:33] Robert W Schneider: But the way they do like Aladdin and Frozen.

[23:35] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I know I'm impressed they tried. I mean, that's I'm impressed. That's oh cool. So, yeah, okay. So, anyway, that's fantastic. I love it. I think that's great. Thank you for that. And also really really quickly, Disneyland was trying to plan a Dick Tracy Crime Stoppers ride, and they never did it. So if Disney wants to re-examine that, please do so. And do not watch the horrible racist, offensive 1960s Dick Tracy cartoons, which are really they are they will make you cringe.

[24:09] Robert W Schneider: So in the Dick Tracy cartoons, if I may, and then we can move on. I'm sorry. It was like all it was a cartoon, and it was like Dick Tracy would like be sitting at his desk and he would get like a crime, like a notice on his watch, and it'd be like Dick Tracy Big Boy Caprice is stealing money. What should you do about it? And he wouldn't do the crime, he wouldn't like go fight someone. He was like, go send, and he would send in like random detectives. Two of these detectives, oh boy, one of them was called Jo Jitsu, which was just Mickey Rooney from Breakfast at Tiffany's in animated form.

[24:45] Kevin David Thomas: Yep.

[24:45] Robert W Schneider: Big time. And the other one was someone named Gogo Gomez. And we will just leave it at that. Needless to say, they used to rerun these things in the early 90s after the movie came out. And then Hispanic and Asian groups were like, you can't do that anyway. So I think I'll be honest, I think they're on YouTube. And if you really want to make your asshole like get down to a millimeter out of tension, just watch one of these. So go enjoy. But my thing is Dick Tracy only for the Sondheim songs. Oh boy. Take it away, Kevin.

[25:19] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah, yeah, you cracked me up. So my favorite thing this week is, you know, yet again, something that was inspired by research that I was doing for an upcoming guest that we have. I try to if I if sometimes I feel like I'm pretty good, I know what they've done, but if I'm really taken by someone, I really want to at least have context of some sort. And this upcoming guest, or I hope is gonna be an upcoming guest, because we haven't done it yet, but really kind of rocked my world a little bit because I knew so little about this individual, and yet they seem to have influenced so many other artists and playwrights and artistic directors and influencers of the business. And yet this person was very much an anti-establishment, anti many, anti many things.

And this person is the so I would my favorite thing is the movie, My Dinner with Andre from 1981. Yes, the a two-hander with Andre Gregory and Wallace Shawn. And Andre Gregory is a person that we're hoping to have a chat with. We're in full disclosure, we're scheduled to have our interview with him on Monday, but the episode won't come out until November, and it coincides with his autobiography, which I'm in the middle of right now.

[26:33] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, I'm just started it too.

[26:35] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah. And so I confession, folks, I really didn't know anything at all. I knew the name a little bit. I didn't know much about his I don't know a lot about avant-garde theater. I don't know a lot about international theater, especially let alone experimental theater in the 60s and 70s, let alone now. And so he's not really connected to American musical theater, but he's deeply connected to theater. And of course, it's all universal. And I was I thought, okay, I'm gonna watch this movie. I bought it, you know, rented it, and I thought, all right, well, let's just skip research. And I did not expect to get so sucked into it to be so moved by the arguments that are imposed on this. Like I said, it's Wallace Shawn, it's Andre Gregory.

They're playing themselves essentially. Later they would say that you know they could have you know interchanged their parts and the message would have been the same. But it really come on, guys, quit blowing smoke. You're they're playing themselves, it's easy. But they did write a script. I mean, it was a written piece. It was directed by a very well-known French director, Louis Malle, I think. Louis's name. He was married, Candice Bergen.

[27:42] Robert W Schneider: That's right.

[27:43] Kevin David Thomas: And so and he this is not his normal foray, but this sort of like very much it felt like a it feels like a play. It really feels like a play. It's in it's in the a very famous restaurant, the Cafe d'Artistes, that is no longer with us, but a very famous for you know our artistic restaurant where artists would go and hang out, and you're there, that's the set, and it's just literally the movie is in time of Wallace Shawn getting ready, taking the care or walking up, going to the dinner, how he's a little nervous to see his old friend that he knew from a couple years ago, five years ago to be, and then their conversation as dinner progresses, and then Wallace Shawn getting up and then saying goodbye and him on the taxi ride home and going home to see his girlfriend.

It's very literal, and yet it's incredibly moving the arguments they make. Andre Gregory had not been in theater for like five years or so, and he had done crazy avant-garde stuff, you know, in berries in the forest, being buried alive in Long Island for Halloween, all these sort of things to get in touch with you know his artistic self. And so the first hour of the movie is really sort of catching up where he's been for five years, because he really had been sort of a recluse and been away in his artistic journey. And then the next hour is very much their sort of argument back and forth of Wallace Shawn, who's very much more of a humanist, a realist, and Andre being more of you know, his spiritual experiences and what that means.

And what does it mean to be an artist? What does it mean to tell a story? What does it mean to have experimental theater and the nature of theater versus life and et cetera, et cetera. And I just thought, I don't know, maybe it's because we've been lockdown mode, maybe it's because I've been really thinking a lot lately about what it is, what those exact questions. And I was just really moved by the movie and how quickly it the two almost two hours went by. And I really would encourage you all to if you haven't seen it, of course, check it out. And if you have seen it, revisit it again because it definitely will, I think, in this time period make you think a little bit. Again, this is from 1981.

At the time, you know, Roger Ebert, remember Siskel and Ebert? Roger Ebert, you know, he gave it the big thumbs up, thumbs down. He Roger Ebert made it, it was his best film of the year for him. And for the 1980s, for Siskel and Ebert, it was their fourth and fifth best pick for the entire decade of the 80s. I think that's just really interesting. And I mean, all it's got all the great reviews, and yet it's so it's very much to me like an anti-movie. It's very much feels very theatrical, very much like a play. And yeah, and I just thought I, you know, you guys while this isn't a cast album or a YouTube clip. I think this movie is very artistic and very beautiful, and I think it's it's well worth the time spent.

[30:21] Robert W Schneider: I'm so happy that you picked that.

[30:24] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh, yeah. It's one of those things, you know. There's you know, there's epic, you know, artistic, you know, pieces out there that I just have not gotten to yet, you know. And I'm just so thankful that I got to experience it because I really was surprised. I thought I was just doing homework, and it turned out it really stayed with me for a couple days.

[30:42] Robert W Schneider: I remember, you know, in the Follies in concert in 1985. Oh Andre Gregory is Dimitri Weissman. He's the guy who's like Silomania of you came.

[30:56] Kevin David Thomas: That's right.

[30:57] Robert W Schneider: I am astounded. I never put them in the case.

[31:01] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, that's that's all he that's all he did. That's all he did. That's his big musical theater. In Waiting for Guffman, I now get the joke at the end with the action figures when Corky Sinclair. He puts the two action figures together, and it's like, it's so hard to get a reservation.

[31:16] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yes, it is.

[31:17] Kevin David Thomas: You're just like, yeah, then you're like, yeah, that's a I uh so specific. I used this was in high school to show you how pretentious I was, and I cannot do it now. I used to be able to do an impression of Andre Gregory in my dinner with Andre, but I don't remember any of the lines, and I can't be able to.

[31:35] Robert W Schneider: So you knew this movie when you were in high school, Rob. I mean Yeah, you know why? Because I was a huge Waiting for Guffman fan. And I was like, What is this movie? And so I went, I rented the movie to watch to like get a sense of what the joke was and Waiting for Guffman. And I was not disappointed. But you're right. It's a it's a I'm gonna probably watch it again then tonight or tomorrow. It's a god damn, what a beautiful, brilliant film. I think it's it's really beautiful. Yeah, I really was happy. I was a huge fan of Andre Gregory's work though in Shazam, the 1996 Sinbad film.

[32:07] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, Sinbad movie. I love that movie. It's a really good movie. Good score, great score. Danny Elfman did the score.

[32:12] Robert W Schneider: Danny Elfman did. I'm so I'm so happy you picked that. I think that's some that's a such a marvelous choice. Okay. It was a very nice, yeah. So go watch Dick Tracy and then cleanse your palate and get sophisticated and watch My Dinner with Andre.

[32:25] Kevin David Thomas: Very nice. Do you think one day they'll make a movie about us called My Dinner with Kevin? It's just us at like Westway Diner. Forgetting that we had already talked about the exact same thing a year before.

[32:35] Robert W Schneider: That's right. So once again, folks, it was I'm Breathless, not the movie Dick Tracy. It was I'm Breathless. Now you get to watch But that episode was August 29th of 2019. So almost a year ago. Shit. Shit. Shit. Maybe we should talk about retirement plans.

[32:54] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, right on. All right. So hopefully you'll join us again on Saturday at eight o'clock. Venmo me at Robert W Schneider5, or you can go on to PayPal at Rob W. Schneider at gmail.com. Or you can donate to Impact Lebanon, which is where all of our proceeds are gonna go, and just screenshot and we'll send you the zoom code. But we're excited. Hopefully, we'll see you all there till next time. Bye, folks.

[33:15] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" ♪