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[0:41] Lauren Van Hemert: This is the Beltline to Broadway podcast. I'm Lauren Van Hemert, your host, and on this episode, I am talking about Hairspray. The show is running in Wilmington, North Carolina, at the historic Thalian Hall. And as you will hear, what makes this Opera House Theatre Company production so unique is that it brings together three degrees of Hairspray history and perspectives. Melissa VanPelt, who plays a dynamite in this production, and is co-choreographing the show with Rhon Saunders, who played Little Inez in the Broadway production and on the National Tour. Rhon, who is featured in the show as the record shop kid, kicked up his heels in Hairspray Live. And Erin Sullivan, who is the wig supervisor and plays Velma in this production, played Amber on the National Tour. Here's our conversation.

[1:42] Lauren Van Hemert: Melissa, I want to start with you because you were in the Broadway production of Hairspray and played Little Inez. You closed the show on Broadway. You played opposite this incredible cast, including Marissa Jarrett Winokur, who came back for the closing. Talk about being part of this production. Marissa has said this show changed her life. How did it inform your career going forward?

[2:16] Melissa VanPelt: And I always tell this story. I had a teacher there, Pearson. Pearson said to me, I'm doing my monologue, I'm 18. He said, "Melissa, you look like a little girl, you're gonna play little girls." And I remember thinking, oh, that's not what I want to hear. But he was correct. And at the age of 25, I, you know, backstage back then, you had to go get the paper. So I would get the paper every week, Thursday for the newsstand, and I see Hairspray breakdown, and I see looking for Inez, 18 and over to play 12. And I thought, well, I circled it because I go, that's me. You know, that's my type. And I called a friend who had done the show, and she gave me some corners, and I bounced in the room and I wore very little makeup.

And I think I sang "Stop in the Name of Love," and the piano player, Lon, he said, "Okay, I'm gonna take it up a whole step, sing it again." I was okay. So I did that and went through that entire process. And so I did the tour first. So I did the first non-equity tour. So I did that, and you know, got to know people because we had all of the same people from the Broadway cast come and teach us the show. And a few years later, they called me. I'll never forget this. February of 2008, they called me. I get a call, and we used to always joke and say when a 212 number is calling, we'd say, "Oh, the B Way's calling." The B Way's calling. So I got that call and they left a message, and he said, "Hey, Melissa, we're just calling to see if you're available."

Keep in mind, I was eight months pregnant. I was eight months pregnant at the time. So I call him back and he said, "Hey, I just wanted to see if you're available. Natori is leaving to do a movie, and he's this way." He said, "We've already offered it to someone else. But he said, um Danny and um Matt, Matt, they said, give you a call just to see, just in case this other person doesn't take it. They said, we're pretty sure she's gonna take it, but they wanted to see if you were available." And he goes, "I know you just had a baby, and I figured, actually, I'm still pregnant." And I proved fact, I gave birth a week later after that phone call. We got stuff to do, baby. Well, we'll keep you in mind, you know, if something else becomes available.

And I thought, oh, I remember thinking, gosh, did I miss my chance? You know, but a few months later, August, they called me back and they said, "Hey, Natori is leaving for good. She's gonna just do movies, and we want you to come in." And of course, you still have to go in and sing and dance. But when I showed up, it was me and a bunch of Ambers, and I thought, well, that's a good sign. And yeah, and so it was like she said, I mean, the show really did change my life, and I got to be in the show during the election of President Obama, so I'm standing on the side of the stage, you know, running out to say, "Can I please audition? Can I?" And I'm thinking, well, you know, not only did other little black girls and black women did this so that I could do that, but also the night that he was elected, we had a show, you know, and I just it was such a special magical time for me, and something that I will never forget.

[3:07] Lauren Van Hemert: Speaking of being on stage with a bunch of Ambers, you're sitting next to one. Erin, was your Amber on the Hairspray National Tours?

[3:07] Erin Sullivan: So, Erin, talk about playing that role of Amber and now stepping into the role of Velma, which I think is such a juicy, wonderful role for you. I can't wait. What did you learn playing Amber on tour that you're bringing into your Velma?

[3:07] Erin Sullivan: Yeah, I did the tour from 2008 through 2010. So I closed the non-union tour, which was wild because it was after the Broadway show closed. So that was kind of super emotional, I think, for just overall all the companies. Playing Amber again, and it happened for me out of nowhere. Like again, kind of like I showed up, and it was me and one other girl and a whole bunch of links, and I missed all of the auditions because I was doing some summer stock, and I was like, thousands of belting blondes show up for this. And I was mind-boggled how they didn't find what they wanted. And when I'd auditioned, I mean, I literally found out 45 minutes later when I ran into Danny Austin, who was our choreographer on the subway.

He's like, "Did you get the call?" And I was like, "What?" He's like, "Girl, you're Amber, where have you been?" And I was like, it's still one of the most amazing moments of, and I started crying, everyone in the subway was clapping, they didn't know what was going on. So that was a moment I'll never forget. But getting to play Amber was so cool because it was, you know, Matt Lent's our director, our tour director, was so amazing and just so insightful. And he was what Jack O'Brien's assistant. Jack O'Brien was the original director of the Roddy Company, and so much of what he did was so much character development. And he really made it made it very clear to me and the woman playing my Velma that I was not, I wasn't playing her mean.

And I think that was a really interesting thing because when you look at the role on paper, she's a mean girl, but it was really fun to develop her to make sure that like she was misunderstood, and she also too was very sheltered. So I think playing that added a lot of different levels, and I then didn't I didn't end the show being a bad person. I got to end the show changed person and an enlightened person. Velma's a very different story, and this is so exciting. I mean, it feels so full circle. I was with Melissa, it's like riding a bike. Like how you just I mean, I haven't done the show since it closed in 2010, and now getting to come back and play, you know, my mom, which is a little terrible.

I'm like, oh it's been so long. I'm the mom. I'm the mom now. So it's just I'm having the best time. I'm having so much fun because they're just it's so sense memory, and there was just so much to there's little homages that I'm taking because I had two of Velmas over the course of my contracts where I just remember hearing these lines over and over what they did. So I feel like I've absorbed a little bit of their artistry, and I'm just having such a blast getting to you know pass this experience on to this next amazing generation of like incredible Wilmington kids. And then the fact that the three of us get to bond together with being like part of this family is like is it Hairspray's it's a family, it's a giant, yeah, never fraternity that's yeah yeah so if you're ever under that if you're under that umbrella with the the OBC you know or are the original creative team we all just it's we love each other the minute we meet so yeah this is a this production is definitely gonna be one of the probably most treasured times I'll ever get to be on stage in Thalian Hall. So I'm I'm very excited.

[9:18] Lauren Van Hemert: I feel like the history you're bringing with this show is going to resonate so much on stage. Rhon, I wanted to talk to you about when they were doing these live broadcasts, Peter Pan Live and then Hairspray Live. I was so into it. I felt like that was like, you know, we all talk about the Pro Shots now and great performances doing the gorgeous Pro shot but I loved those five live productions because it was as close to live theater to me as you could kind of get. Talk about your experience on that production and how learning the choreography there is informing how you are co-choreographing this piece with Melissa.

[10:16] Rhon Saunders: I think being on the set and I think having the experience of being around so many like theater greats but also like the camera entertainment industry like the two worlds collided. So I got like a super crash course. I mean I had only been dancing professionally probably like two years before that and then had only been dancing for real like a year before that. So like everything was like new like brand and so being you know 10 over 10 years later and then you know after being a professional dancer my brain now is so different because now I'm cool choreographer and you're you're trying to help people be their best selves but you're also trying to push them and give them something new and challenging but also keep the integrity of what the show is because it is a package like you can literally put it in a box and give it to the next person and they should be able to open it up and put that same show on the stage.

[11:19] Rhon Saunders: You know Jerry Mitchell is like choreographer extraordinaire. How much of the Jerry Mitchell choreography goes into a regional production like this one?

[11:34] Rhon Saunders: Yeah, so my goal is to try to teach as much of it as I can, and of course I only played one track, so I only learned what Inez did or what the Dynamites did. So I've had to do some homework, you know, in coming here, but my goal is to try to be as close to the original as I can. Some of those don't quite... I'm not gonna say I want to make everybody look good. Let's just say that.

[12:05] Rhon Saunders: As fun as Hairspray is, as wonderful as the music is, the undercurrent is a really serious undercurrent of racism and integration in this country. And so how do you feel the choreography helps tell that story?

[12:23] Rhon Saunders: Because it was so segregated back then in that particular time, it's really heavy, like when teaching choreography. Like when we're teaching the Nicest Kids, their choreography is a little bit more exact, and it's a little bit... what is the word? I don't want to say like precise, yes. But like the Motor Mouth Kids, there's like a little bit more groove and grunge and a little bit of room to express yourself and to have fun. It's more like a juke joint, less than like actual, like we're gonna marry ourselves to this exact move.

[13:00] Rhon Saunders: I remember Danny talking to us in my rehearsals when I was doing the tour and talking to everybody and basically saying, you know, the Nicest Kids, you know, everything is up and peppy and high, and that the Motor Mouth Kids are more grounded and down, and a lot of our accents in that are down. And that's really... I mean, honestly, that's how Black people dance. We dance down and hip, and we feel a different accent, and the white kids are up and peppy. And he was like, we want to showcase that. We want to show, hey, these are the differences, but we're gonna come together and we can still have fun together and still do these things together. But I really like that a lot of the choreography was very intentional in helping to tell the story. So we want to keep that same integrity in this production.

[13:48] Rhon Saunders: The other thing about Hairspray, and we can't talk about Hairspray without talking about the hair. Erin, when you announced that you were gonna be in this production and part of this production, you opened a box of wigs. And how do the wigs help tell the story? And tell me a little bit about the history of the wigs that you're working with.

[14:14] Erin Sullivan: The, I mean, yeah, the show's called Hairspray. And it's so much of it lies in that exaggerated time period where so much of the choreography tells this really, really amazing story. The hair is kind of... it what makes it... I don't want to say cartoonish by any means because we don't play the characters cartoonish, but it just gives that heightened sense of what the time period is.

[14:37] Erin Sullivan: Yeah, yeah. And it adds a little bit of that, you know, that John Waters vibe to that. The tour went back out in 2022, 21. It was only on the road for about two to three years. It had a shorter stint. And the production company that had the show out was actually a company that I'd worked for quite a bit. And I kind of just took a shot in the dark and I emailed, you know, Brandon Miller, who's the head of the wig department with the, you know, Apex Touring, and I said, "Hey, throwing out there, are you guys willing to rent the wigs?" And he was like, you know what? He's like, "For you, yeah." And I was like, "So..." He was very sweet. He's like, "Some of them are busted, like some of them are not looking show ready." I was like, "I don't care, send them to me now."

[15:29] Erin Sullivan: So I mean, and it was just... oh my, I did literally... I wish I knew how to TikTok. I'm... that's how old I am. But I mean, the unboxing of these when they arrived at my house, it was like... it was just so much fun and the nostalgia, and some of them are actually from our tour. That's how these... they're standing the test of time. And then some are brand new ones that had been made for this recent one, including we have all of Nina West's wigs for our Edna, Jeff Phillips, and those wigs are exquisite. They're so beautiful.

[15:59] Erin Sullivan: So, yeah, so I've just done a little bit of refurbishing some stuff, getting them fitted, and then also too, just, you know, it's been really fun educating the cast to up the level of... because a lot of times wigs aren't incorporated in the productions here in Wilmington. And I think this might be one of the first shows that almost the entire female cast is wigged, and then there are a few of the male cast that's wigged. So I'm creating an entire extensive wig plot. I'm gonna take over the green room. So we're up to about 54 wigs in the show. I feel like wigs, it's like that final transformation for an actor. You know, it's just... you know, you have the costume and then you do your makeup, and there's something about putting on that last element that just puts you in such a different space, and I'm so excited that I get to... I've been able to bring that to the show.

[16:49] Rhon Saunders: So every time a production of Hairspray happens, I feel like there is a conversation about how polarizing this show can be for some people or problematic for some people. It's been criticized for its white savior narrative and maybe sugarcoating some very serious issues in this country. What would you say to those folks who maybe find this show problematic or hurtful? What would you have to say to that?

[17:39] Rhon Saunders: Um, honestly, I feel like because it's presented in such a light-hearted way, it's presented in such a fun way, and yes, it has a message, but they're not beating you over the head with it. But we have to realize we are seeing Tracy's story. This story is about Tracy, someone who is fuller figured and has her own challenges to deal with. Of course, we know, like, you know, segregation and integration, all of that, but this is from her point of view. We're following her journey. So I wouldn't say that necessarily she's the white savior. I think that being around the Black people kind of helps her to find her own voice in a way, and they're kind of cheering her on and championing her, but not necessarily that she is saving them.

I don't think... I've never gotten that from this. So I don't necessarily see her as the white savior. I feel like this is just Tracy's story, and it gives us a protagonist that we had not ever really seen in theater and on Broadway to see a beautiful, fuller figured woman who gets the boy, who becomes popular, who gets on TV, that speaks to everybody. And that's what this story is about, really.

[18:58] Rhon Saunders: Yes, the integration is a part of it, and they put it in the 60s, but this is Tracy's story. So I think if people... honestly, I think this is a show for people who don't even like theater. You know, I tell people, if you don't like theater, go see Hairspray because it's so funny. You know, the jokes that... I mean, the way that this show was written is so clever. It's so funny. You get the jokes and it goes on, it's great music, it's great dancing. It's really not much to not like about the show. So I think it also serves the purpose because it is theater, and or if even if it was a movie, you only have a certain amount of time to tell a story, you know, have underlying messages. But I think the fact that people like those people who are upset that it, you know, may have wrapped up something too quickly. I think the fact that people are even talking about those conversations or having those conversations is the point to just get those conversations going.

[19:54] Rhon Saunders: Um, I remember when I did it, Donald Trump won. And we came into rehearsal the next day. And Jerry Mitchell and everybody, like, literally told everybody to like just stand around in a circle and just like close your eyes and just like remember why we were there. And Kenny Leon was like, you know, we are here, like, yeah, we're gonna dance, we're gonna sing, but the point is to tell these stories because it doesn't matter how good it looks on TV or how good we do, if the message doesn't come across, then we didn't do anything.

[20:25] Lauren Van Hemert: What is the significance of doing the show now for audiences? Um, yeah, and why does the show continue to be produced and revived and revisited? What is it about Hairspray that we all just can't get enough of?

[20:44] Rhon Saunders: It's just... it's just a timeless show, even though it's set in the 60s, and I think that's why people keep doing it so relevant still. I think it's relevant because it's a mirror. Yeah, and it's not like... it's not like an abrasive mirror, and it's like sometimes how people don't know, like you don't know how evil you are until you see something that you know maybe not is as evil, but yeah, like the... like damn, that is messed up. And then you're like, "Well, I kind of do that too." I will never forget this. Matt Lens said it has to go, "You're not funny." It is. And I... that is advice I have carried in my entire career. It's literally the perfect script. And as long as you, as our jobs as actors, tell the story in the lines, it's gonna do its job.

[21:28] Lauren Van Hemert: The Opera House Theatre Company production of Hairspray runs through July 6th in Wilmington, North Carolina. I'll put a link in the episode notes. If you like what you've heard on this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast, follow us on social media at Beltline to Broadway, or visit us online at www.beltline to broadway.org. Until next time, I'll see you at the theater.