This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Lauren Van Hemert: This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange child care. You'll meet on your schedule, wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner, or just need a little extra one-on-one support, Talkspace is here for you.

Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers, and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code Space80 when you go to Talkspace.com. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com. Save $80 with code Space80 at Talkspace.com.

[1:02] Lauren Van Hemert: Beltline to Broadway. Oh my gosh could prove about tough times. Broadway hooray. Let's all tune in to Belt Line to Broadway. What do you say? You could binge anything. Listening to Belt Line to Broadway. Belt Line to Broadway. This is the Beltline to Broadway podcast. I'm Lauren Van Hemert, your host, and on this episode, I'm chatting with Tony nominee Katy Sullivan and National Women's Theatre Festival's executive director, Johanna Maynard Edwards. Sullivan received critical acclaim for her performance as Annie in the Pulitzer Prize-winning play Cost of Living. She also is a Paralympic champion and says, while being an actor informed how she approached her athletic training initially, it was her athleticism that informed how she approached her Tony-nominated performance. And that's where our conversation begins.

[2:27] Katy Sullivan: And um to me becoming an athlete was such an intimidating thing. It was such a um it was so far out of my comfort zone. I'd never run before in my life until I was 25. Like I had already had I already went to acting school. Like I got my degree in acting, and I was like, and so I really approached athletics from a place of being an actor. Like I came at it from the place of like, okay, this intimidates me so much. How would this you know person act in a film if this was the film version of this, you know? And I I re it was really kind of fake it till you make it, and I would sort of go, okay, I think an athlete would wake up at four in the morning and go to the gym. I think an athlete would do, you know, you just sort of and it was also this period of time for performers with disabilities where it was kind of quiet for a beat.

Like I was getting like one audition a year, and so it felt like this time that I could just go, okay. Well, what's the worst thing that can happen? I could go down this road and I could not make an Olymp a Paralympic team. Like I could not and but I become hell fit and I earn a you know, I can gain a skill, I can do these things. And so in the same way that like athletes have to understand their bodies in such a specific way. Like I feel like being an actor is such a similar skill set of just understanding yourself and understanding what it is that you are trying to do and what you're trying to tell your body, and playing Annie as a person who is not a quadriplegic, who is not, you know, it's a it's a physical game that you are trying to uh teach your body to play.

And um, I think being an athlete before this was such a beautiful way for me to understand my physicality in such a profound way that um yeah, you just sort of tap into this thing and you put a muscle memory to it, and then you just go, okay, this is the thing, this is what we do. I mean, it's the same thing, like a hundred meters is the gun goes off, and your body responds like you just know you've done it so many times that you know it's due. And I think playing Annie over 250 times I've done 250 performances over of Cost of Living for over five different productions. I there was never a time that I was scared I was gonna like scratch my nose. Like that was not um you know, my body understood the game we were playing, and I you know, you just sort of trust that your instrument is there for you, you know.

[5:40] Lauren Van Hemert: I love that, I love that, and I'm glad you mentioned your journey with this play and this character. I had read that you had become very connected and protective of Annie. Does the Tony nomination does does that provide some closure for you in any way?

[6:07] Katy Sullivan: I don't know if there's ever closure for like there's a production happening right now on in the Pacific Northwest, and I know the actress who is playing her and Teal, and she's lovely, and we've worked together in the past, and but I I just I care about this character so much that I just like I'm just like please take care of her. Like I you know, you and I know she will, and she's I wish she I could see it, but like there's so many, there's so many layers to it because it I am so happy that there is now a character that is going to go on, and knowing Martina and knowing the the foundation that she has set for this play, it will not be done. She will not allow this play to be produced without performers with disabilities in it.

And so knowing that that is the legacy that is being built with this piece of art, um is incredibly exciting. And like, what will the revival be? Like, who will play? You know what I just got chills. Like, when I am dead, someone is going to play this character. And that is beautiful. And like to be a piece, oh gosh, I just got really emotional. Like that is a that is a piece of history that like I will be forever grateful for. And I will always be protective of her. And I think it's interesting because early on, when you read this, if you just read this play, and even early on, like uh reviews and things were sort of like she's so acidic, she's so angry, and it's like, no, she's hurt, she's damaged, like she's not um she's not just an angry woman.

She is a woman who has been through hell and come out the other side with a a level of perspective and a level of um just sort of seeing the world in this new way. And I um I love Martina for that. I mean, she's writ she writes such complicated people that um you're just like, oh, let me add it. Like, let me let me add that.

[8:25] Katy Sullivan: When Ali Stroker won her Tony, one thing that that moment really shone a light on was how there was such a lack of accessibility at Radio City Music Hall and a lack of accessibility in the theater industry. I mean, there was no ramp for her. She had to sit backstage. She couldn't accept the award with her Oklahoma castmates because she couldn't get up there. Here we are several years later. Have things improved as far as accessibility and awareness in the industry?

[9:06] Katy Sullivan: Yes and no. Um I have to give the producers of the Tonies this year props because I went to that theater three times. They had me show we had had multiple conversations. They were like, we want Katy to feel comfortable and ready to just like do, you know. And um I asked for a banister. I was like, this is what I uh what I would need to feel like I can, and we had all these conversations about like I could just be backstage, like I could, but it felt so and now in retrospect, not when being someone who was just nominated, I did not go home with the trophy. Thank God Ali did, but I would just be have been escorted back to my seat. And it just like I got to sit there with my fiance and he got to squeeze my hand and he got to say, I'm really proud of you, regardless of what happens.

And like that is equity. Like that feels equal. Um but we I basically had to kind of like go and demonstrate. I mean, it was like seven or eight stairs. I was like, this is what it would look like if Scott had to get up, my fiance, and help me up these stairs. And it was then that they were like, okay, yes, no. And they built a railing. The morning of the Tonies. I went, I went all the way up to that theater. I practiced the stairs a couple of times, and I said, 'They so much. Like, thank you. I just, and then I could kind of put my worries aside and know that um that was handled in some way. Um, the interesting thing is they put a banister on stage right, they did not put one on stage left, and my agent told me that someone tripped up the stairs going on the left side. And I was like, why is this?

[11:09] Lauren Van Hemert: This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences, and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange child care. You'll meet on your schedule, wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner, or just need a little extra one-on-one support, Talkspace is here for you.

Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers, and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code Space80 when you go to Talkspace.com. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com. Save $80 with code Space80 at Talkspace.com.

[12:10] Katy Sullivan: Why can't this be a thing for everybody? Like that was gonna be my question, Katie. Is like how like it's universal accessibility. Yes, Katie Sullivan gets to come and practice using the railing, but I I'm curious to know if everyone else in their shoes and their shoes, dresses, trains, what you know, and actually when um that huge entourage for Leopoldstadt went on stage, the number of people that I saw gripping on, I was like, you're welcome, like that, but I just think that there's such uh a focus on like the aesthetic of like what is it, what do we want the aesthetic to be? And oh, a banister will just like mess up our aesthetic. And it's just like the number of people that I saw put their hands on those banisters walking up those stairs.

I just was like, I am not the only person that would feel more comfortable. I mean, you're you're talking about even if it's just on one side on the side that's downstage, you are talking about like seven or eight steps up on one side, your adrenaline's pumping, you are having an out-of-body experience, and you could very easily just fall off the side of the stage. But the fact that my agent was like someone someone tripped up the stairs on the ha on stage left, and I was like, of course they did, of course they did.

[13:45] Katy Sullivan: That aesthetics argument is so wild to me because we're we're theater makers, and we like we should be we solve creative problems for a living. Like, that's literally what we do, it's what we exist for. So you cannot tell me that we can't have aesthetics and accessibility. Right. A hundred percent. Make it a beautiful make it a plexiglass hand railing. I don't know. Like it can be clear. I it doesn't. But at the end of the day, and you brought up Ali, that does not change her perspective, and that does not change someone who, you know, if there are other performers with disabilities who have, you know, who are wheelchair users that would have had the same situation this year, and I don't know what the answer to that is.

[14:41] Katy Sullivan: And I am a pro I am privileged in my community that I can walk up a flight of stairs. I might not be able to, you know, do it without holding on to something or to someone, but so we're not there completely. And we're not, we're not there. We haven't landed. I was happy and relieved during COVID that theaters were opening up this conversation about equity, diversity, inclusion. I was thrilled we were finally having these conversations, but I also felt like people living with disabilities were not being included.

[15:20] Lauren Van Hemert: Did you feel like the people living with disabilities were cut out of those conversations?

[15:27] Katy Sullivan: I don't know if they were completely. I can't say that we were completely cut out of the conversation because obviously we were nominated, we were there, we were in the building, but like I will say that I literally just had lunch with Greg Muscala, and I don't know if I should quote him, but he basically was like, I don't think it's our time yet. Like he was like, this season and these winners seem to be like it's a moment about gender identity and the attack that is happening on that community right now, and it's very present, and like, yes, they should have their moment, their space, their time, like yes, and he was like, perhaps it's not quite our time yet. And I was just like, I don't know.

I feel it feels incremental, like all of this inclusion feels like what can people make space for in a single moment, you know what I mean? And I feel like yes, we have a far, oh my gosh, we have such a far way to go because, you know, individuals that live their lives with disabilities make up a quarter of the population. Twenty-five percent of the population lives their life with some sort of visible or invisible disability. And we are the least represented on Broadway or in our entertainment and our media, but never in my career have I been able to say, oh, I can point at Camelot, I can point at Gray House, I can point at A Doll's House, I can point at Cost of Living. There were multiple shows in a single season that were featuring performers with disabilities, and I don't think that has ever happened before. So perhaps we are not sweeping the Tonys yet, but I feel like we're on the path.

[17:43] Katy Sullivan: I do want to just nod to the gender parity conversation.

[17:52] Lauren Van Hemert: Yes.

[17:53] Katy Sullivan: That is Johanna's wheelhouse. You are going to, it was announced you're playing Richard the Third. Do you think we are moving towards now that we've had this moment at the Tonys, we've had these two beautiful non-binary performers win? Do you think we're going to see more non-gendered roles and non-gendered awards categories, maybe?

[18:21] Katy Sullivan: I mean, there were multiple big New York City awards that were like we're getting rid of male, we're getting rid of the binary. Like that's, and I don't see how that is a bad thing. Like we're all actors, we all show up. The only thing, the only thing is, I mean, historically, I will say historically there are way more male roles in theater and then in film and TV than female roles. So we may come up against inequality there just from the female perspective of things. I have no problem with, I don't know how my performance is any different from how being in a category with those women would make it any different than just being in a category with other actors. Like I don't, I don't have a problem with like whatever, let's do away with it.

But I do think there is something to, and I've been thinking about this a lot leading up to playing a man as someone who identifies as female. The universality of like what does someone want? And it very rarely has anything to do with gender. It often comes down to, you know, ambition or what are those big, you know, thematic and like big super objectives of these human beings and what is it that they want? And who gives a shit what gender you are? We all have the same things bubbling underneath. And you know, you talk to a man, you talk to a woman, and you talk to someone who's non-binary, they're like, my character wants this in this moment. So I hope so. I hope we're starting to see sort of a world where it is let's explore character based on objective instead of based on, you know, gender. I think that's exciting.

[20:59] Lauren Van Hemert: Oh, me too. Joanna, talk about the National Women's Theater Festival and how the advocacy of this organization really is moving the needle on these conversations about equity, inclusion, accessibility.

[21:16] Johanna: Yeah, gosh, I hope it is. We work hard to try to make that be the case. But just from the earliest, like for me, I joined up with the organization after the first summer season that was this kind of just grassroots. Let's put on a festival. And they wound up with cash in the bank afterwards. So it just kind of proved that, you know, women are marketable, women are all the things we knew they were. But I got, I came in when it was time to form a board and a nonprofit in the 501c3 and to be a part of that dreaming and imagining of what does gender parity mean? And that you can't just consider gender parity. If you're doing equity work, you're doing equity work. And so you have to be thinking and platforming all underrepresented voices, and you have to be looking for who's most underrepresented right now, who has never been in the center, who's never been centered, and what can we do to center them?

And then when we're looking for plays, we're looking to show other producers, hey, these plays can be done. Hey, visibility is possible in all its forms. And why this is like I didn't get to see Katy's performance, but I remember exactly where I was when I read Cost of Living for the first time and what it meant to me to read this gift of a play and to know, yes, this is the work I want to be producing. This is the kind of plays we need to be doing. Plays that show real people with real disabilities and a real spectrum of different racial and ethnic dynamics all existing in the space. And to me, like those are my top plays. And Katy was like our top list of like who is the WTF keynote? Who is the person?

Because every year we're trying to think of what is on the community's mind. Like what are we most grappling with to try to make the next step into parity and equity work in this field? And so obviously in 2020, that was anti-racist theater that was bringing Nicole Brewer to our festival and digging into that work. And so each year we're thinking like, who is that person? And so for us, this theme of opening doors around all the ways that we're coming out of a pandemic and all the ways that we're like rejecting this idea of back to normal that there that normal wasn't good for lots of people. There wasn't the hand, there wasn't a ramp, there, you know, it wasn't good. And so like what is this new door opening to?

And who's the first one through it? And what are they doing to help bring the next along and the next and the next? We've really imagined our conference to really be about a community convening, a place to really uplift one another and to spotlight the work that people have been doing in this field and to just really nourish those communities. So like when we invite a keynote like Katy or other keynotes, Chelsea Pace and Christine Toy Johnson, we're inviting them to be a part of the community and with the community, and that we're all going to attend the mixer together, and that these really are conversations. And Katy will be moderating one of those conversations about what this work is and what we need to keep going to nourish ourselves as artists.

So that's what the WTF con is. And then we have our WT Fringe Festival this year, which is our fringe festival. And yes, there are 21 shows in our fringe festival, each of them having two, three or four performances. We have amazing artists from around the country coming and also our fringe lab. We had a group of early stage directors and producers in a cohort this year. There were 26 of them. They're all coming to Raleigh to put up their work in our fringe festival, to attend the conference, to again be in this community and take this parity work back to their own communities and find that way to exist in this field that doesn't hurt you, that doesn't take the parts of yourself that you most need to protect.

And so much of it is gonna be available online too. Like, which is what the thing I'm excited about. Like I'm just coming out of the fog of the thing I've been through, but like that is what I'm most excited about upcoming, is just being like you don't have to, you don't have to physically be there. There's I feel like that's one of the ways that COVID has changed the world is that people are like, oh, I can still attend, I can be a piece or a part of this experience, but I don't have to physically be there.

[26:31] Katy Sullivan: Well, and it's about access and opportunity, and I think making theater accessible is one of the exciting things that came out of COVID. If anything came out of COVID, it's that, and like you can live anywhere and still audition for stuff. Like the self-tape world for actors is about that COVID changed the world, like huzzah. Yeah, I mean, for me as someone, I have a chronic illness-related disability, so I go through periods of not being able to get out of bed, and so it's the members of that part of my community that we were ready to go for COVID. We're like, we'd already know how to show up and do our work from bed. Let us show you. When we talk about LGBTQ plus rights and representation, there's a lot of talk about allyship, what being a good ally looks like. How can theater producers and presenters, Johanna wrote a whole book about this, be better allies to people living with disabilities?

[27:43] Johanna: For me, it's really, it's so unbelievably simple. It's asking someone what do you need, and then listening. That's it. That's all you have to do. Sometimes you have to prove to them that you actually care. That's what I've learned in producing this way, is that lots of people still, whether it's because of their disability, whether it's because of their gender, whether it's because of their caregiver status, whether it's because of any number of things, their economic reality will self-select themselves out of an opportunity because they believe it can't be for them, because nobody's possibly gonna make those accommodations for them. So making someone believe that you actually are asking honestly, what do you need?

And then listen and try to come through on that. For me, that's it. I think that that is, I think that would be the gold standard of like if people could actually believe that. And I have been privileged enough to be in some positions and work in some places where they really did ask those questions and then they really meant it. MTC being one of those places. I think to me what would mean sort of the next tier of things is it feeling like it truly is when people post something that's like we're open to blah blah blah.

[29:21] Katy Sullivan: But do you really do you really mean that? Like I feel like there are so many characters that would be so interesting to be played by a person who lives their life from this perspective, and you never have to address it, and you never have to the character doesn't it doesn't have to be a plot point. Like it doesn't have to be like, but how interesting would it be? I had an experience early on in my career where um a castmate of mine, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently, a castmate of mine broke his leg the night after we opened, and it was an Oscar Wilde play, and I was playing an able-bodied, I had a bustle and a skirt, and nobody knew I was an amputee, it didn't matter. And all of a sudden, someone was disabled.

I mean, just let's be real, he was disabled for a period of time. And they found an antique wheelchair, and as soon as he was like out of the hospital and like recovering, he sat in this antique wheelchair and it transformed this character in such an interesting way, and I have been thinking about that a lot because like there are so many characters that if you just cast and and and not be afraid as a producer, as a director, as you know, fill the blank what it's going to mean or cost or how much trouble it's going to be. I will tell you one thing. Individuals that live their lives with disabilities have spent our entire lives adapting to a world that is not designed for us. So if you want to look towards people who are adapting and able to just sort of roll with what's going on, please look towards my community because we have spent our entire existence adapting our world to y'all's that has been the name of the game so uh I w I hope and I wish that people start to realize and that's one of the things I was going I was going to say if I had the opportunity to stand on that stage on Sunday night was producers directors casting directors please continue to cast people from this community we will not disappoint you like you will have the hardest working people because we've never had the opportunities we are gonna show up in a way that you have not seen so like that is my hope and I don't know if that really answers the question that you asked but that's what I feel like where we are I feel like it doesn't have to be oh it's a play about disability oh it's written this way no cast cast a disabled person in just in whatever and see how it transforms the play it's so interesting because on the podcast I've talked so much about color conscious casting um and and conscientious casting and and so many of the directors I've spoken to have said when when you make these conscientious casting decisions it can add this whole layer to a character and to a play that makes it so much more interesting and and dynamic and so I hope going forward casting directors will take it into account and and ask the right questions, ask the honest questions.

[33:19] Katy Sullivan: It's okay not to have. I think so often people want to have the answers to the questions. It's okay not to have the answers. For sure. You know, and the other thing is I will say, I find more allies in casting directors, to be honest. Like I really do. I don't know that I find I think casting directors have way more creativity sometimes than they're given credit for because they present, they present all the options. And it's, you know, it's the producer, you know, I don't know. I mean, we're not to throw anybody under the bus, but like directors, producers, the people who are like, How hard is this gonna be? Is this gonna make this more complicated? Is it gonna make it more hard? And it's like no. I mean, there are plenty of there are plenty of things that people need, even as able-bodied actors that like, you know, it's um I think there is this level of trepidation and fear when it comes to performers with disabilities as to what does that mean for production?

And and my hope is that people start to get it that we just want the opportunity. We don't need some weird kid glove special whatever. Like just throw us out, throw us in the deep end, we'll swim. And that comes from some of the still just taboos that some people have around disability and their understanding of disability and that like what if I say the wrong thing? What if I affect and it's the same thing that we go through with anti-racist work, it's the same thing we go through with LGBTQ inclusion. It's we're so afraid that we're going to be shamed because we make a mistake. And we have to we have to like get out of our own stuff.

[35:17] Katy Sullivan: And well and I think that's also like from the perspective of those communities, allowing people grace to put their foot in their mouth sometimes and like allowing people the grace who are trying to shift and do the right thing to to have the grace to fail and say oh I get it. I'm sorry. Yep move let's move on in that direction. And I feel like people are so afraid to to make a mistake that they avoid it sometimes. And I think some and I think we all just need to uh try to figure out how to provide that grace and space for people to fall on their face and say but that's to me that's what theater is like you have to you know they always talk about oh this is a safe place like rehearsal it's a safe place.

It's like okay well it is a safe place but like let's do really risky things with it. Yeah and have a container where um where we all understand like we in our company we use we we have a um concern resolution path we try to be open from the front that like concerns are gonna happen harm's gonna happen and like we're we're just gonna engage in this process instead of avoiding it and we use like oops ouch language and stuff like that. And so it's like just creating those containers for the for the spaces so that you know if you're if you're working in good faith and you make a mistake, like the the people in the space, the community is going to catch you and call you in, not call you out.

[36:54] Katy Sullivan: You know there there's a lot of conversations about intimacy coordinators, fight directors. One of the interviews I did, she was talking about having accessibility coordinators, not just for performers and actors, but for the people coming to the theater to make it accessible for them. Um, do you think that's some uh uh direction that theaters not just Broadway theaters, but trickling down to our regional and community theaters. So that that kind of position needs to start happening, needs to be best practice rather than a novelty.

[37:36] Katy Sullivan: Maybe this is controversial to say, but like I feel like regionally that I think at least accessibility, physical accessibility, maybe not other forms of accessibility, like physical accessibility tends to be handled in a much more graceful way. Uh I find in brought on Broadway specifically, we literally just my fiance and I went to go see a show on Broadway, and um we went to get rush tickets. We a friend of ours was the understudy, and she was going on, and we were like, Oh, we gotta get there, we gotta see her. And we went to rush some tickets, and he asked for accessible seats because most Broadway houses are really not if they it's rare for there to be an elevator. Once you get to the whatever level, you have to either walk some you know, crazy amount of stairs, whatever.

And they uh they said, Oh, we can do rush tickets for accessible seating, but they're full price, they're not the rush tickets. And he's illegal. God love him, I'm not gonna say what theater it is, I'm not gonna say what show it is. But he was like, okay, so let me get this straight. She was like 48 hours before the performance, we released the accessible seats. And he goes, Okay, so let me get this straight. You are able to be an audience member for a Broadway performance and be disabled at the same time only if you can do it 48 hours in advance. Is this correct? And she turned eight shades of whatever, and she gave us the she gave us the the accessible seats at the rush price, and we had a lovely night.

But there is this, like, and and I will say, cost of living at MTC, they removed the their accessible seats were the last row of the orchestra, and they decided none of us we did not, I did not demand this or try to make this happen. They removed on the two um far sides of the house, the first row, they actually removed those seats, and those became the accessible seats in the house. They were the front row because the sentiment at Manhattan Theater Club was this show, is these people have never they've never seen anybody that looks like them in a theater. They should be in the front row. They should not be in the back row of the house, and like, or though, you know, they should they should have like the best seats in the house, and um, I will forever be grateful to MTC for making that adjustment because yes we should you should. You shouldn't have the crappy seat with the pole in front of you. Like you just, you know, like you also deserve choice like any other patron.

[40:45] Katy Sullivan: Yes. Yes. Yes. I can share what we what we're what we do and what we're doing as far as excess we our managing director acts as our accessibility coordinator year round. And so that's like always kind of in the on the literature, on the emails of like for artists, for the artist side and for our audience side. Um, but for what we decided this year for on site at festival that we would um we for our accessibility coordinator budget in the line budget line, we decided that we would um switch hats so our staff leadership team members would alternate days of being the designated accessibility coordinator in the venue so that there is somebody every day that is knowledgeable on all of our accessibility practices offerings and how to how to navigate that with folks at all for every day.

[41:43] Katy Sullivan: I love that and I love the um the community that WTF is building. I can't wait um for next week to come and to um to uh be part of the festival and to really hear these amazing keynote speeches. Katie, I I won't have to mow you down. I could just hug you and not run after you on the street.

[42:13] Katy Sullivan: You are welcome to chase me anytime you want.

[42:19] Katy Sullivan: But I I love this and I loved your performance so much. I'm so grateful to WTF for making this happen so soon after the Tonies. I'm sure you're just exhausted. I know I I mean there is a part of me that is, but there is also like I'm I'm the ultimate, I'm the consummate, like just actor. I'm like, oh, what are we doing next? Like what's next? What's next? So like I'm so excited to be a part of this festival. And um, you know, it's uh I don't know if I could say I'm a woman first or I'm a disabled performer first. Like I'm I'm both and like uh so I'm so excited to just be part of the conversation and um and to to be there.

[43:10] Katy Sullivan: Katie Sullivan will be one of the keynote speakers and presenters at the National Women's Theater Festival, which kicks off this week. I'll put a link to the festival schedule in the episode notes. If you like what you've heard on this episode, please consider subscribing to this podcast. Follow us on social media on Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok at Beltline to Broadway, or visit us online at www.beltlinetobroadway.org. Until next time, I'll see you at the theater. Beltline to Broadway.