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[0:07] Lauren Van Hemert: Welcome to the Beltline to Broadway podcast.

[0:11] Lauren Van Hemert: I'm Lauren Van Hemert, your host, and on this episode, I'm chatting with Erin Sullivan, whose one-woman show With Love, Marilyn, is premiering in London this month.

[0:11] Lauren Van Hemert: With Love, Marilyn is truly Sullivan's homage to the enigmatic Marilyn Monroe.

[0:31] Lauren Van Hemert: And Sullivan is no stranger to the persona of this American icon.

[0:35] Lauren Van Hemert: In fact, nine years ago, she created the role of Marilyn in a staged reading of Mark Medoff's play, Marilee and Baby Lamb.

[0:46] Lauren Van Hemert: And that is where our conversation begins.

[0:50] Erin Sullivan: You said nine, I can't believe it's been nine years. With that whole experience with Marilee and Baby Lamb, where I portrayed Marilyn in a very exposed, I almost want to say graphic portrayal of her, where I really went from being a, you know, a really die-hard musical theater-trained actor to the first time really experiencing true, very deep acting. No song and dance, no laughs, you know. And also to like having the responsibility to do justice for one of the most famous and beautiful and treasured Hollywood icons in the history of cinema and the history in the world. So it was a huge responsibility that I took with great weight and passion. I did my research, I did my homework, and I really just immersed myself in everything I possibly could.

Because, I mean, you have to when you're taking on something of that. The beauty behind Marilyn Baby Lamb was the fact that I was not necessarily portrayed, I wasn't the Marilyn everyone sees. So, you know, getting to have that experience with Mark was the opportunity of a lifetime. It changed me in so many ways of how I was as an actor, how I perceived acting, and just how much I didn't, I don't want to say became her, but it was a responsibility that I had to, you know, and not many people do take on playing her. So I had to kind of give myself some props because it's already a daunting task to go, okay, yeah, it's on because you are under, people immediately judge you in a different way. You know, you can replace a character or play a role in a character, but like when you're playing an icon, you're putting yourself in a whole different level of exposure and criticism.

And, you know, so I understood that. I understood the weight of that. But then I also knew that I had to make it my own. And, you know, luckily within Mark's version, it was very much I did, I talked in my own voice because she didn't talk like that, and I only went into the Marilyn voice, we said like three times in the show for just certain effect, which then was really eerie for the audience to see that like massive flip. And a lot of that stuff that I took on from Medoff's work is really what I wanted to integrate into writing With Love, Marilyn because I took what I learned from that experience, and I wanted to keep growing with that in my own piece. After, you know, we did, I did part ways with the play, it kind of came to a standstill.

It was very controversial material. Broadway politics got in the way as per normal sometimes. And I just, you know, was like, well, if you know, I had, you know, a group of producers who were really, really supportive of me. And they were like, hey, let's you make your own show. Let's, you know, and so I created my own work. And that's kind of how With Love, Marilyn was born.

[4:15] Lauren Van Hemert: Did the realness and authenticity of playing her in Marilee help you develop a respect for her?

[4:24] Erin Sullivan: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Like learning about just how smart she was, and that, you know, she played what people wanted to see, but she was a very, and I've said this in dozens of interviews, she was a really smart businesswoman. I mean, she played a game and she was playing it really well. And a lot of it she played to her advantage, you know, and then, but still she was a woman in Hollywood in the 1940s and 50s, but she truly was a pioneer. You know, she eventually formed her own production company because she wanted to do more and be more than the scripts that she was being presented. So in a lot of my research, as much as she was, you know, we know this tortured soul, Marilyn, and then we know, you know, the on-screen, you know, sex pot, you know, sexual icon Marilyn, there was this whole other woman in the middle who was just this survivor, a genuine survivor.

And she did what she had to do. I mean, I feel like I'm doing that still. Like right now, like, you know, I had a really rough year and made some life choices and had to look back and reflect in like my happiness and my health. And I was like, you know, in a weird way, she still gives me strength to go on and take a chance and do something and pioneer and make my own choices and be my own boss. So yeah, I mean.

[5:47] Lauren Van Hemert: I love that. Go Marilyn.

[5:50] Lauren Van Hemert: Well, and I think it's so interesting because right now so many icons like Marilyn Monroe are having this moment. When you, so when you did the research on her for Marilee, and now you're developing your own show With Love, Marilyn, how do you settle on the story you're gonna tell and the snapshot of her you're gonna give?

[6:17] Erin Sullivan: So yeah, believe it or not, like With Love, Marilyn is celebrating its seventh birthday on February 13th, since I debuted it in New York City. And this show has taken so many shapes and forms, which has been really fun because, you know, writing it, I have the ability to actually adapt it towards the venues. So we knew that going into it though, the producers wanted it to be a little bit more lighthearted. Marilyn Baby Lamb was a very dark show. I died three times. I like, you know, multiple suicide attempts, lots of some sex scenes, you know, there's very, very heavy material. So didn't want to, you know, do that, but I wanted to take, I wanted the audience to see still some of that stuff that I experienced there, but I also then wanted to make it like a light and enjoyable experience and celebrate and still celebrate her.

I became very, very close with Samantha McLaughlin of the All About Marilyn organization out in LA. And she actually had come out and reviewed, she drove from LA to Las Cruces, where we were doing Marilee to see the show. And we, while she had, because there were a lot of things within Medoff's work, there were just hyper a little bit more hypothetical, you know, what dramatized scenarios, if you will. It wasn't a total, you know, biopic by any means, because she was really blown away by my performance. So when I started doing this project, going down, you know, this idea, she was my go-to to get in conversation and be like, hey, this is what I'm thinking, X, Y, and Z. And she's actually the one who told me, as I thought like I wanted to do like a cabaret version so I could perform her card catalog of songs, you know, songs that the public knew, songs that they didn't know, and I wanted to interweave it with some stories.

And she's actually the one who inspired me to make it take place at the Sands Casino in Las Vegas because she had said that in truth, Marilyn was in negotiations to perform live at the Sands because she was very close with Sinatra, and Sinatra was a resident of that casino. So that's where I kind of was like, wait a second, what if I created like a hypothetical scenario that this is a show no one really got to ever see her do? So that was kind of the loose framework, let alone I had just witnessed Audra McDonald's brilliant genius in Lady Day. And I, oh my, I like that show stuck with me. And it was kind of, I didn't want to like where Audra like unraveled before your eyes. I kind of did love the framework of that, and I won't lie, that did inspire me a little bit to explore a similar one-woman show scenario with the intimacy of how that was done.

I kind of wanted to just go it as a love letter because we, you know, wanted to do for marketing purposes, you know, what would be the holiday, what would be the most probably like celebratory time to be like, you know, in love, especially like all of her stuff is like love. So that's why we kind of picked the date to premiere it before I even wrote it. I was like, so we kind of wrote it in like six months, like six months and learned it. And I was like, because my deadline was February 13th. So yeah. So I mean that was a little, that was a little daunting. But yeah, so I mean, I just I and I was very fortunate that they still let me play some of those more rooted, emotionally dark moments. And, but then I also then was able to go and do the really lun, like my tap into my musical theater background and do all the Marilyn stuff that the public knows and loves and wants.

So then, you know, with writing it too, like Samantha was just really there. It helped me with like facts, like random things that not very few people knew, and just these little intimate details. So she was just really, really a massive supporter of the script.

[10:13] Lauren Van Hemert: Well, there's an authenticity to it, and an authenticity to your performance that I think is really exciting to watch. You know, I feel like you've workshopped this for seven years and all over the country, and then you get the call to do the show across the pond in England. So tell me about that.

[10:38] Erin Sullivan: This is and this is all the doing of Robin Milling and Michael Rubenstein, who've been my two biggest supporters for now over a decade. And I don't even know how this even is happening, to be honest. So we did the show. I left New York in like 2018 to come down to Raleigh-Durham where I met you and I was able to like gig out the show a little bit locally, and then the pandemic happened, and I'm just giving a hair bit of backstory. Excuse me. So then we had applied, you know, our LC had applied for a grant with, you know, the shutdown, you know, when 2020 happened and the arts just disappeared. So we had this small grant, and I was now relocated down to Wilmington, North Carolina, and this is where I grew up doing theater and performing.

I was very close with a lot of the companies here, and so Michael's like, hey, you know, we've got this. I was like, you know what? Let me do the show here and let me do it kind of the way I always have wanted to do it. Because we've had the show packable in one suitcase, literally the whole show in one suitcase, to bounce around the country with, you know. And I finally we have this, so fortunate the historic Alien Hall down here in Wilmington is a national treasure. We are so lucky. They have a small studio theater, and I was like, I want to do it as almost like a play versus it being more of a cabaret. And the great thing is is again, being one of the writers on the script, I could change what I wanted.

So I kind of took the liberty to turn it into a two-act piece. I wrote some additional material and I actually added a little secondary character, and I was able to have a set, like an actual legitimate set. And it was so thrilling, and it was a lot more kind of rooted to a little bit of I got to explore a little bit more of my metal experience. And I not only didn't had the opportunity to direct this version of the show, I decided that I wanted to share it with another actress because there's very few one-woman shows out there, and it has been such an amazing experience to be able to have that responsibility and it's like no other in my career. And I thought it'd be just really fun to be able to give somebody else that experience as well.

And so I decided to split the role for the first time and give another actress an opportunity to join me on this whole thing. And I was very fortunate that there is a girl here in Wilmington, her name is Sidney Smith Martin. She is amazing, amazing. Sid, we're very different in just our styles in general, but it worked. And she's also quite a bit younger than me. Yeah, it's okay. I'm proud. I'm proud 43. Sid's like a hot 25. We're good, we're good. But she is just such a professional and such an old soul.

[13:46] Erin Sullivan: And um, I I trusted her with my show. I trusted she'd do the work. I trusted she would take on the material serious. She's got a spectacular voice. Um and you know, we we worked on it. We worked. We we rehearsed for almost like three months, and uh sure enough, put the show up and we split we split the role because I was I knew I had one last go. I was like, I got one last go at this for me, you know. Um, not that I think that like I'm aging out of my show, but truth be told, I mean, I kind of am. So it was really fun too to watch her take that into her own eyes and take her experiences. So we we're we were doing the same the same tribute in the same the same, you know, material and the same purpose and the same focus, but as completely two different actors.

So that was really exciting to watch and to see. And I was super, I was so proud of the production. And um, so yeah, that was for me. It was like kind of um, I was like, all right, well, let's put her to bed, you know. It's been a it's been a good run. And right as we decide, like last year, the whole the team to like dissolve the LLC, Michael and Robin went over to London for uh just a trip, and there is this amazing exhibit over in London that's being hosted at the Arches London Bridge. Um, and it is a Marilyn Monroe exhibit, and it's uh items and uh clothing and and uh memorabilia and book like from private collectors, I think things on loan from Fox and and uh MG, like you know, and it's a an actual museum exhibit of of her life, and uh they went over there and being the awesome producers they are, they're like, Oh, hey, yeah, like we you know, we do a Maryland show over in in the States, we have one, and then just bada boom bada bang, all of a sudden, like I get a call from Robin, and they're like, Hey, do you want to go over to London and do put the show up in at the exhibit?

Because they do have a space. I call it like a TED Talk space. Um, it's like, you know, just like a room with like kind of a uh stage and it's got like a gridded lighting rig, and um, and and and I was like, wait, are you serious? Like to go and do our show at an exhibit where like down the hall is like clothing she actually wore and like be in this. I was like, but then I was like, we wait, we said we weren't gonna do this again. And I was like, okay. Well, I'm like, how do you say no to an opportunity like that? And yeah, and and the fun thing too is um if any of your listeners who are Maryland fans, uh Susie Kennedy, who is the most famous worldwide renowned Maryland impersonator, she's based in the UK.

So Susie's been doing her show, which is very much uh Maryland impersonation, um, quite a bit over at the exhibit. And so that's a little daunting as well that we're on Susie Kennedy's turf. Nervous about that. I mean, I just do makeup and throw them on a wig. She is the whole package. So um, that's a little scary, but she already has messaged me and she's like, so excited that you need to come over here and do it. And I'm like, thank you so much. So um, we're going over there, and I'm bringing Sydney. We we kind of as a you know, this with having to shape shift the show as much as I'm I am a little jealous, but this one's gonna be all said playing Maryland, and I'm full-on stepping into director shoes because with it being overseas, we're uh we have made some changes instead of having a live band, we are doing it with our orchestrated tracks that we have.

Um, I've changed a little bit of the concept of the show because usually um it's kind of like you know, the audience is watching behind like a closed door, and but we want to have the audience engaged. So I'm having her actually break that fourth wall, but then trying to shape shift the script so that you still see that intimacy with it, the bookends, um, instead of a two-act, we're going back to it being a one-act straight through. Um so I've I and I've had to look at the space because there's no wings, there's no curtain, it's a very raw exposure. So I've had to do some rewriting. So we're like on version like 400. We've got like two rehearsals in the space. Sydney, we have some um uh Robin's our lead producer on this project, has hired a publicist out in London.

And we've we have all of it, like Sid's been doing all already promo, like a lot of radio stuff already, and then we have a whole shoot lined up for her to do over there, and then we do three shows and come on back. So it's it's so interesting to me because Marilyn, you know, when I think of her, I think of her as an American icon, but she did have a connection to England and London. Can you talk a little bit about her connection? Like, why is there a Marilyn exhibit and a Marilyn impersonator there? But I don't I've never really explored it really deeply because it was just never really truly on my radar. But I don't think it's necessarily her connection to London. I think it's just the fact that she was just adored worldwide.

[18:53] Erin Sullivan: It didn't even matter, I think what country, you know, it was it was just that she she was just this this enigma of of American Hollywood culture and the world was enamored with her. I mean, I have to ask you this. She she was sex symbol, a bombshell, all of these words we associate with her, but she really was a fashion icon, and she the there was power in the fashion that she chose to wear. So talk about that a little bit. With the wardrobe, I just like I love the classy simplicity of her. When you look at a lot of her wardrobe that's not her film wardrobe, her film wardrobe, she was she loved, she just loved clean cuts, not like not a lot of pattern stuff. Um, I mean, everything was pencil skirts, obviously, was this in this style.

I mean, it she I just loved how her the simplicity of it because she didn't need all of this, all of this glitz and all of this like mass amounts of like you know, accessories and stuff because so much of her was just the uh she was a natural beauty. My original costume was designed by um Ryan Moller, who is an amazing costume designer out in New York City, and we went through trying to figure out because I also wanted a piece that you could kind of recognize but not know or is from, and so if you if you do pull up any of my photos, my stock photos, it's like it's actually um uh a dress that was just a stock dress that Fox Studio had that she pulled for a shoot, and it was kind of one of my favorite pictures because I knew I wanted something that was the cabaret.

I in that point though, I had to be able to have something that I could move and dance in. And the gown come to fine, the gown itself that she was in for that photo, because it only goes to like her waist, was actually full length. So we kind of did take the liberty to make it like uh period appropriate for like the knee cut. Um, yeah, so I I went like through it a little bit trying to figure out I wanted something that was a little bit recognizable, but then something that wasn't. We did switch up the look for Sydney because then I wanted to make sure I didn't want her wearing we the same thing as that I did with my show, and again, I wanted to be a little bit more of a play, and so I still have her for this production.

Um, she's in still like a black velvet, very like 1940s period with like a slit, because like she just, you know, for movement purposes, but I did have go to our um our costume designer here in Wilmington, Debbie Shoi. She's amazing. She's amazing. She's been costing me since I was like 13. Um, she I did take this this dress that I really fell in love with, and she's did some like slight embellishments to it uh to just rhinestone it up a little bit. But just I still wanted it. I didn't want it to be too busy. I wanted, you know, with Cindy's look just to be with adding like just the simple accessories, um, that it just gave a little bit of pop and still had that very that classic, classy look that that she portrayed a lot.

I love that I love that part about her. You have gone on quite a journey, like from your time in New York to your time here in Raleigh and to your time in Wilmington, reconnecting with this theater where really you got your start. What's Marilyn taught you about being an artist and a woman in this business?

[22:09] Erin Sullivan: Reinventing yourself all the time. Like constantly reinventing yourself. Um, and also too being true, being true to yourself, you know, be and being honest. You know, it's it's a tricky industry, and even being being honest with yourself and being honest with other people. Um, and sometimes it works to your benefit and sometimes it doesn't. Uh, but I think that, you know, you can sleep better at night knowing it. Um I will say if you look at what Marilyn tried to do for herself and what she established, and then her wanting to take control of her life. Like that's the thing is that like I I had to start making choices and doing things that were scary. And especially with creating my own studio, I had a really rough year last year with just my my personal employment situation.

Some was by choice, some was not by choice. And I had to really regroup and realized what I was doing, I was not happy like at all. And I, you know, was making money, sure, but it was not, it came with a it came at a cost. Um, I was working so much that I was I hadn't done a show. I hadn't even been able to audition for a show. Uh I was able to contribute other skill sets. Like I randomly am really good at doing wigs. And so I worked wigs on a bunch of shows. So I did get to contribute to our our theater community here in Wilmington, which is just amazing. It is a artistic springboard, like for people like we've got multiple kids who I grew up when I grew up was doing theater and coming back and they've grown up and like were on Broadway and like recording contract, like you it's been it's amazing.

It really is. There's something in the water down here, but you know, that I I was home, like getting to be a part of that, and that's a lot of re reason why me and my husband decided to come back to Wilmington, not only was my family here, but because I I wanted to full circle back after 20 years in New York and and be part of the theater scene that gave me my training and my foundation. And I wasn't able to do that, and I was really grumpy. Um, and so I decided to take a chance. Um, I've been doing, you know, I've been a professional actor for 30 years. I've I have a I think I have a pretty decent resume. Mine is a Broadway credit, a little still bitter about that, but you know, Broadway's a hard gig.

And and and I had to remind myself that just because I didn't make it on Broadway, it doesn't mean I haven't had a successful career. That that took a lot of um therapy to wrap your head around. But I'm I'm I'm in a much better headspace of being like, you know, I I still have done a lot of amazing things. Um I have so much to give. So I may as well take the leap and um create my own space to be able to do that.

[25:04] Erin Sullivan: Why are we just so fascinated with this icon, even now 60 years after her death? I mean, I get asked this question a lot. And for me, for me, I think still a lot of the fascination about her is that so much of her life is still a mystery. Like, still to this day, her death is like still still suspect. You know, as much as it's been ruled like an overdose, uh, it there's still a lot of questions to why that was an overdose and where she was in her mental state and the the events that led up to that, whether it was intentional or accidental. I've talked to Samantha about this at great length. And it's it's just been really I think it's just because it's kind of still an unsolved mystery a little bit.

Very few people knew the actual Marilyn Monroe, the the actual Norma Jean. And I think that's what makes her so fascinating is that you know, all we didn't have social media. There, you know, you didn't have the internet. You like what you saw was uh if you went to the screen or went to the movie theater, you know, and got to see her. And and I mean, even as it was, television was just kind of I mean, she has some of some interviews that are pretty early and raw, but um, you know, where uh and recordings, I've gone down the rabbit hole just trying to find like recordings of hearing what her natural voice sounded like. And um, I I think it's just because she was just so we're curious still. You you just want you want to get in there and you wanna know. And we still can't. It's an and everyone lives for an unsolved mystery, you know.

[26:55] Erin Sullivan: With Love Marilyn opens February 13th at Arches London Bridge. I'll put a link in the episode notes. If you like what you have heard on this episode, please consider subscribing to this podcast. Follow us on social media at Beltline to Broadway, or join our online community at www.beltline to broadway dot org. Until next time, I'll see you at the theater.