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[0:40] Lauren Van Hemert: This is the Beltline to Broadway podcast. I'm Lauren Van Hemert, your host, and on this episode, we are talking about the Tony Awards with my friend Eric Woodall, the Producing Artistic Director of Theatre Raleigh. Eric was a Tony voter for eight years and has great insight into the Tony nomination and voting process, which is where our conversation begins.

[1:07] Eric Woodall: To begin with, there are groups of people who have been cited as a committee that creates the nominations. So the nominations are created by a small group of people who have to see everything. The Tony voters throughout the year have to see everything too. When I say everything, I mean everything that could possibly be eligible.

[1:46] Eric Woodall: So there's 15 spots for the casting director section. Each year, that's why I'm no longer one, because the way the criteria is, how many Broadway shows are you currently casting? That's the criteria that I'm familiar with. And then when it comes to how many people vote in other categories, you know, when you get into presenters like roadhouses around the country, like DPAC, you know, that we have locally or different folks, they're divvied out. I don't know that anybody from DPAC is currently a voter. They may or may not be, but there are different booking agents that have slots and they can vote because they have a hand in the game. They have a lot riding on, you know, who votes and who wins and who they'll be booking.

[2:43] Eric Woodall: Today, let's see, Friday afternoon is the cutoff, believe it or not. So there's some people who are still getting shows in like tonight, the next couple of days, and they have to have it in by I believe noon on Friday. I luckily always had mine in early, but there's a race, you know. It's like right now I've been speaking to friends, they're like, I've got three more, I've got two more, you know. It's like trying to get everything in by the time. So that's why everybody, all the performers, everybody working on these shows is so exhausted because they wouldn't dream of calling out right now. They're doing all of these shows and they're rehearsing the Tonys during the day, and then up till Sunday night. Some of them perform Sunday matinees in between rehearsals to go on that night.

[3:38] Eric Woodall: Now, sometimes they will call out through the weekends because the die is cast as of Friday. But one of the things I find so interesting, and having served as a judge for something else completely different recently, you know, we always say, like, well, I bet the judges didn't give it to them because dot dot dot. No one sits around a table and discusses it. It's not a team thing. It is merely by numbers. It's just the added up number of who got the most votes. So it's not people thinking it's a conscious decision like they deserve it this time, they deserve it this time. That doesn't happen.

[4:21] Eric Woodall: Now, does it happen with oneself when one is voting? Yes. I remember very often going, you know, I'm gonna vote this way because I think they really deserve this. Or they are brand new and this other person has won three, you know. Does that make me want to give it to this one a little bit more? Yeah, but nobody is sitting around hashing it out. That doesn't happen. That's so interesting to me because people have so many theories on how this works and how it doesn't work. So I'm glad you clarified.

[4:59] Lauren Van Hemert: Let's talk about plays for a second. And this is an area where I'm less familiar than musicals. The big ones that we're really talking about are Death of a Salesman, The Ballisters, and Liberation. Where do you think the plays are gonna land?

[5:21] Eric Woodall: I feel like Death of a Salesman is having a moment right now. Liberation just won the Pulitzer Prize. So, and they're not in the same category. They're totally different categories. One's a revival, one's a new play. But where do you think we're gonna land on these plays?

[5:38] Eric Woodall: Well, I think you just said it. I think both of those are the winners. I think Liberation is best play, and I think that Death of a Salesman is best revival. And I think that Nathan Lane will win for Death of a Salesman. I think John Lithgow, I shouldn't say should win, but my God, that performance in Giant is bone chilling and incredible. But I think it will be Nathan Lane, and I think it will be Laurie Metcalf in the supporting category. And I think Liberation will win best new play. I saw Little Bear Road and Sam Hunter is the writer on that, and I love him and I love that he's had this Broadway play, and it's a small Broadway play, but my opinion is Liberation will really take that category.

[6:31] Eric Woodall: There was some discussion about Scott Rudin coming back to Broadway, producing both Little Bear Road, Bridge Road, and Death of a Salesman. Does that have any bearing on how Tony voters are looking at this?

[6:50] Eric Woodall: I think, you know, if you press people hard about it, you know, I'm sure people are conflicted with feelings about that, you know, Scott Rudin personally and past and all of that, but I think when it comes to work that is that great, I think that people will go with the work over. I mean, I know I'm sure some people will not with the way they vote, but I think the majority, I think there will be enough that it will push Death of a Salesman to win, I do. And I hear this is an extraordinary production and that the people in it, that Nathan Lane, Laurie Metcalf are extraordinary.

[7:30] Lauren Van Hemert: Yes, yes, incredible. So that brings up another interesting category, which is the best director, because we have Whitney White for Liberation, who I adore. I met her when she was emerging here at Playmakers when she directed Jump, and then we have Joe Mantello, who is a giant and veteran of theater. So when it comes to best director, what are you thinking because they're in the same category for that?

[8:06] Eric Woodall: This I don't know. You know, I think Liberation is so loved and I do think it's, and I think this is an area where voters can recognize how and share the love a little bit more. I think Death of a Salesman is going to get that Tony love in lots of areas. So I think Liberation will get, as we've said, new play, but I think this is another area where it can get another award. I don't, my gut is that it's not going to win the acting award, any of the acting awards, but here I think it could. We've got a costume designer that's up for Liberation and Cats. I feel like Queen Jean perhaps has a really good chance for Cats.

[8:57] Lauren Van Hemert: I do too. The costuming was so innovative.

[9:02] Eric Woodall: I agree. I agree. And especially also getting having two nods there. I think it will go that way with Queen Jean Ford, Jellicoe Ball, yeah.

[9:17] Lauren Van Hemert: So let's talk a minute about musicals because I'm a musical girly and I love them. The biggest surprise for me this season has been Two Strangers. I thought it was smart and funny and genuine, and I thought the performances were wonderful, but what I really loved about it was the character development, which I don't often say about a musical. I mean, it seems like it should be an important thing in any play or musical, but here the way the book was written, it was very smart how they wove the music into it.

[10:05] Eric Woodall: I think for best new musical from the shows I saw, it's Shmigadoon, because it is everything you love about golden age musicals and everything you don't love about golden age musicals all woven into one. And it's smart and funny and wonderful.

[10:24] Eric Woodall: I agree. First of all, I was so taken with Two Strangers, and I basically am agreeing. I mean, I don't think it's gonna go that way as Best Musical. Um, and I've heard people talking about Shmigadoon, and it wouldn't surprise me if that wins, but um, and I know people have very mixed feelings about Lost Boys, but my gut is that it is going to go there.

[10:54] Lauren Van Hemert: The Lost Boys, interesting.

[10:57] Eric Woodall: That was not my favorite. Um, but I am in the minority. I mean, I've said this that it wasn't for me, but everybody around me loved it. Um, the people sitting around me. And from a spectacle standpoint, filling up the Palace Theater, which is a very large house.

[11:09] Lauren Van Hemert: Gigantic, yeah.

[11:18] Eric Woodall: And the effects and the lighting. Do you think Michael Arden will have a back-to-back Tony for directing?

[11:25] Lauren Van Hemert: I don't know. I think, look, I would love if he does get that, but um, I don't know. I think there's been a lot of buzz about Lear with Ragtime, and I think there's gonna be so much Ragtime love. I could see that happening.

[11:42] Eric Woodall: I also could see um, Bill Roush and his fellow director who I'm blanking on for Jellico Ball, because I don't think Jellicoe Ball is gonna win Best Revival. And so in the director category, that could be where some Tony love is shown, you know. Um, this is a category I don't know. My god, they're all deserving, and um, I really don't know. Admittedly, I did not love Lost Boys, but I think had I not seen all of these shows so close together, I might have a very different feeling about Lost Boys. Um, I do think Michael Arden has a very good chance at getting that lighting award because the lighting was extraordinary.

[12:29] Lauren Van Hemert: That's what now I think that is actually a very good point. And I could see it going his way for lighting, and then it wouldn't go his way for directing, and then that would open it up for one of these other directors. Um, I think Shmigadoon for choreography, I it could it could be Jellico Ball, but I don't know if everybody will I don't know. I feel like it could be Chris Cotelli for that for um, for the choreography. There's one world in which Shmigadoon could really take a lot of awards. I think, you know, because there is such a love for this golden age musical, and it's kind of like some people do love this and don't love this, and so it could wind up right there with kind of this Valentine's homage to um something that is a little old-fashioned.

[13:27] Eric Woodall: It's not the way the trend that we've seen for the last few years, you know, because it's the, you know, even thinking about a few years ago with Passing Strange and surprisingly the Tony voters have taken chances and not gone with necessarily the most commercial um choice. And so um, I mean, but that could pave a way for Two Strangers, you know. You, I mean, you really don't know. You know, it's funny at the beginning of the season, everyone's like, it's not a very good year or whatever. And I feel like as we've gotten later in the season and some of these other shows have opened, it's become a very exciting race to me.

[14:07] Lauren Van Hemert: The no-brainer to me, though, is Casey Levy and Joshua Henry. I think Ragtime is one of the most extraordinary pieces of theater I've seen in a long time.

[14:21] Eric Woodall: Agreed. And Joshua Henry's performance is it will go down in the history books. It already has as something that we'll all say to each other, Lauren, like I was there. And you know how amazing it was to experience that. And I felt that way about Brandon Uranowitz, but I know he can't, you know. I wish that that role could have been in supporting, but it can't. Um, but he was wonderful too. But this is Josh's year, and I feel like it is for Casey also, you know, there's a world in which Marlon Mendel could come through and get that. I don't think she will, but that could be like the nod to represent all of Titanic, because um, Marla represents not only, you know, being incredible in that role and so funny, but as a creator, you know, and the little engine that could.

[15:18] Lauren Van Hemert: Yes, and it is kind of smart. I mean, in its irreverence and all of the things Leighton's performance. Oh my goodness, so funny.

[15:32] Eric Woodall: Yeah, um, and he won the Olivier Award. So, does that give him a shoe-in?

[15:40] Lauren Van Hemert: I don't know. I think that um, supporting category is gonna go the way of Andre Shields. I don't know. I can say that through the years of Tony voting, I certainly did think that way. Sometimes when there were so many incredible shows, it's kind of like I know I'm just speaking for myself, but I would go through voting and I would say, I'm gonna vote for them. I don't want to say to represent the show, but it does kind of feel that way. It's like, oh my God, I would love it if they at least got recognition in this one area. Um, and so then I start to boil down what area will that be, you know, and to spread the love a little bit. I don't know. I can only speak for myself.

[16:27] Eric Woodall: One of the things every year that people begin to pontificate is these snubs. Chess was nominated for two, Hannah Cruz and Nicholas Christopher. I Nicholas Christopher's performance, his voice was extraordinary. I think in any other year, we would be saying it's his. Um, I don't know that that will happen this year, but he's definitely deserving of all of the accolades he's getting right now.

[16:57] Lauren Van Hemert: Absolutely. Absolutely. I will also add in that category, um, Sam Tutty. You know, but it boils down to like apples and oranges. It's like I wasn't fortunate enough last year to see just in time before um, I saw Darren Chris's performance. And so I was, you know, thrilled for Darren Chris, still am thrilled for Darren Chris. But when I saw Jonathan Groff, I just thought, how can that person doing that eight times a week not win a Best Tony Award? Like it, it's you know, and but that's the beauty of all of this. It's like it, these performances in many ways can't be compared.

[17:41] Eric Woodall: And I never saw Chess before. That's a new show for me. Um, I wasn't really surprised that they didn't get the love in the revival cat. I didn't think it was a felt more like a concert to me than a full production. And I do think the show still has some book problems.

[18:00] Lauren Van Hemert: I agree, yeah. And I wasn't surprised that Leah Michelle didn't get, you know, I know a lot of people were surprised that she wasn't nominated, but Nicholas Christopher is so deserving and definitely one to watch. And Sam Tutty, his performance is extraordinary. He and Christiani Pitts, I think are both ones to watch.

[18:21] Eric Woodall: Absolutely. Well, Christiani, I mean, and Nicholas Christopher, I've been such fans of, you know, for so long, and been a part of casting them and things. Christiani, you know, we cast in um, King Kong, believe it or not. And I was seeing that show with Tara Rubin, and I just leaned over to Tara and I said, You must feel such a sense of pride, you know, to be because Tara has played a big part in like the trajectory of so many people's careers, but certainly Christiani. And um, and it's still fun for me, you know, even being more separated now since my big job is here in Raleigh. And but to send texts to people when they get the nominations, and some people you certainly don't expect to hear from, but you know, Christiani surprised me with writing back and Casey Levy and you know, different people that I'm just I'm so thrilled for.

And I'm like, they must have been contacted by everybody under the sun. And just to write back and say, thanks, Eric with hearts, you know, it just makes you feel it. I still love feeling a part of the world. Um, and um, I'm just so proud of all of them.

[19:33] Lauren Van Hemert: Let's talk about casting directors. The casting directors got a little bit of a nod at the Oscars. Do you think we're going to see that same love when it comes to Tony categories?

[19:47] Eric Woodall: I don't. I wish I could say yes. I don't. I don't. It's something that casting directors fought hard for. Casting directors on the East Coast, theatrical casting directors, we can't get unionized. CSA is an organization, but not a union. And we fought very hard. I say we, I was a part of it, but it was Dave Capp and Bernie Telsey and Tara Rubin and Cindy Rush, and so many, um, so many incredible casting directors that fought really, really hard against, and I hate to say against, but against a lot of the producers who did not want that to happen. And it did not happen. We weren't able to, equity would not take casting directors on in the union and SDC would not. And the Teamsters, the Teamsters took casting directors on as part of their union on the West Coast.

[20:48] Eric Woodall: So that was a step. So television and film casting directors are a part of a union. And I think that was the first step. And not that you have to be unionized, but I think that that's kind of the first step. You know, you know. For theater, every person that works on a production is a part of a union, including the people that work concessions. Including, you know, box office and usher. There are unions for every aspect of the theatrical Broadway process except for casting directors. So they see us as independent contractors. So I'll get off that soapbox now. But because of that fight, and because that's still not, I don't see the nod being given to casting directors anytime soon. God knows I wish that it could be.

But you think about it, music directors on Broadway shows don't get nominations. They don't, you know. So, you know, one of my great friends, Vadim Feichner, who is an incredible music director. Each year he will post Happy Tony Day, or to all music directors Tuesday. You know, because it's just a normal day for them. They don't get any, they don't get any recognition. And it's like when you think about it, how does a musical happen without a music director? It's tough. Isn't Mary, she's getting a special Tony?

[22:10] Lauren Van Hemert: Yes, and you know she's from North Carolina from Wilson. Mary Mitchell Campbell.

[22:14] Eric Woodall: Thank you. I know her as Kristen Chenoweth's music director because she always does Kristen's concerts, but yeah, she's getting a special Tony. So that's very, and she deserves it. She has done so much humanitarian work, she has been incredible, she is so beloved. I mean, not to name drop, but just to like talk about how our lives and careers, you know, when I first started casting, I was teaching a class, an acting class, and the student who was someone who had just arrived in New York was Tituss Burgess, was my student in there, and my accompanist was Mary Mitchell Campbell. And we, the three of us have talked about that at different times, you know, because they became very good friends. I think even were roommates at one time. But just how lives develop, and I love Mary Mitchell, and we love that we have North Carolina in common, you know. So I'm loved that she's getting that special recognition.

[23:14] Eric Woodall: This time in the season is always a little bittersweet. We see shows start to close, we get the closing announcements. I think the one that didn't surprise a lot of people, but people were gunning for was Beaches. I think people really wanted to see Jessica Vosk be nominated for a Tony. And have there been any surprises for you and anticipating the new shows coming in, many of which are from the West End? What are you looking forward to?

[23:45] Eric Woodall: So any surprises this year? Surprises this year. I mean, I don't know that I would can consider them surprises, fortunately or unfortunately. I mean, I do think because Death Becomes Her had done so well and been so well received. I do think that its closing is a little, it feels a little premature, but as soon as I heard it, it made sense to me because it's in the Lunt-Fontanne, and that theater is gigantic. And you know, if you think about it, shows don't usually run in there too, too, too long. It's a tough one to fill, it's an incredible location, but there's a lot of seats in there, and a gorgeous theater. Oh my god, it's where I saw my first show.

[24:34] Lauren Van Hemert: Did we talk? Was your first show Peter Pan too?

[24:37] Eric Woodall: Mine too.

[24:38] Lauren Van Hemert: Was it in the Lunt?

[24:39] Eric Woodall: Yeah, yes, yes. And so it will always be that to me. I was in the top balcony. And when Sandy Duncan flew up close enough that I felt like I could see her eye level, I will never forget it. No, I was hooked. I was, that was it for me. I didn't know. I, you know, I didn't know musicals can make you feel that way. I didn't know you can be swept up. And I still have that same feeling when I go to the theater.

[25:06] Eric Woodall: I do too, Lauren. I do too.

[25:08] Lauren Van Hemert: Yeah.

[25:08] Eric Woodall: Yeah, that Lunt is the Lunt Fantastic, it is gorgeous.

[25:13] Lauren Van Hemert: Yes.

[25:14] Eric Woodall: Yes. But outside of, you know, any other surprises, I don't know. I was surprised that Lea Michele didn't get a nomination just because they're just, I was surprised at that. And again, things just happen. But I thought, you know, everybody's been so in her corner after Funny Girl. And I don't know. I kind of, that was a bit of surprise to me. Next season, I'm really looking forward to Benjamin Button. I saw it in London and just loved it. So I'm excited that everybody gets to see that. But you know, you never know how things are gonna transfer. And are you excited about Evita? People are losing their minds.

[26:00] Eric Woodall: Andrew Lloyd Webber's having a moment.

[26:03] Lauren Van Hemert: He is having a moment.

[26:04] Eric Woodall: And you know, one of the things that I think is so incredible is here is this man of a certain age who, you know, is saying yes to, I think the thing that's so thrilling is he's not being precious about these pieces and is saying yes because he could say no. He could say, no, I don't want Sunset Boulevard, you know, bastardized by, you know, somebody in their like underwear or walking around Times Square. But no, he's, he gave his blessing. And my goodness, Masquerade is just so thrilling. And the fact of, you know, the way it's been rethought. And then Jellicoe Ball. And people tell me who know him that he is, you know, he sees all of those shows, goes to see them and is such a supporter of these directors and these conceptions.

And that is thrilling because for years hearing these stories about people have great ideas for something, but the estate said no. The estate said you can't do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, all right, then it can stay an old chestnut and not have a new audience and a new life, you know. And so, yes, Andrew Lloyd Webber is having a well-deserved moment.

[27:31] Eric Woodall: I think last year, when we talked about shows, one of the things we talked about as trends, you know, what we see on Broadway will eventually trickle down to our regional theaters like Theatre Raleigh. What trends from this season do you see trickling down to our regional theaters?

[27:51] Eric Woodall: I think, you know, I have always loved immersive theater, and how can we bring people into it and make them feel a part of it without making them nervous that we're gonna pull them up on stage and embarrass them? You know, that's everybody's fear, understandably. But how can we allow people to be further in the process? And I think, you know, we were getting close to exploring things like that in many ways in New York, and then the pandemic happened. And then not only did things stop completely for a long time, but then when they started back, it was how can you do Godspell under a tent with people five feet apart and masks? And so everything was so far apart that now that we can be back together, which is what theater is meant to be and must be to stay alive, it's communal.

And so we want to experience it almost as close and on top of each other as we can. So I think that celebration is really finding itself in all aspects of theater, whether it be, you know, big, large, sitting on stage at the Jellicoe Ball, or being at a regional production, you know, in, you know, building a pie shop to do Waitress in, which we did last year, and feeling like you're really almost at a table. And so, so I think that is a big trend that we're seeing.

[29:19] Eric Woodall: I think one of the things that this season, especially the musicals all in Broadway, I think has taught us is you can break rules, and breaking rules is respected. No one would have ever thought that Titanic would be playing on Broadway right now. Like it wasn't developed to even do that. It was like this cool, funny, funny idea. And, you know, the humor, I think humor has played a big part of this season. Thank goodness. I think if you look back at entertainment through the years when our country has been at war, our country has been in a lot of turmoil. Things that lean towards entertainment, things that lean towards making people laugh and forget life for a couple hours. I think you're going to see that trend trickling in more to the next few seasons in regional theaters because that's, it's what the people seem to want. I mean, I don't want to give up on some challenging, thought-provoking theater. We always need that. But entertainment aspect of good theater, I think, is going to be in the forefront.

[30:31] Lauren Van Hemert: I would like to thank Eric for joining me to talk about theater and the Tonys. If you would like to cast your own Tony ballot and keep track of all the winners, visit Beltline to Broadway.org. Also be sure you are following me on social media on TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram this weekend at Beltline to Broadway, because I will be at the Tony Awards and will be taking you with me. Until then, I'll see you at the theater.