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[0:08] Al Malafronte: Hello and welcome to the Break a Bat Podcast where baseball meets Broadway, an attempt to show that my two favorite mediums don't have to live in such separate worlds and maybe even break some stigmas.

[0:19] Al Malafronte: We're happy to have you with us. Now let's play ball.

[0:25] Al Malafronte: Hello and welcome to Break a Bat, where baseball meets Broadway and sports meet show business. I'm your host, Al Malafronte, coming at you from the batter's box with our very first performer from the stadium to join us in 2022. You know full well by now, if you've listened to Break a Bat for a while, that some of our chats with guys who take on the roles of middle infielders in their playing career are among some of my favorites as a host, and I'm sure today will be no different.

[0:51] Al Malafronte: Our special guest had a big league career that's been 12 seasons, primarily for the Pittsburgh Pirates, where he was selected to an All-Star game, won a Silver Slugger award, had a 200-hit season, and he's actually one of only two Break a Bat hitters to have a season in which he led the league in triples. It was one of the best shortstops of the mid-2000s, and I'm so grateful he could join us today. So with that being said, I ask you all to please turn your attention to home plate just beyond the marquee. Now batting, Jack Wilson.

[1:20] Jack Wilson: Oh, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[1:23] Al Malafronte: Yeah, my pleasure, man. How's everything going out in Thousand Oaks, California?

[1:28] Jack Wilson: Nah, it's great. A little windy today, but overall it's always nice being in Southern California. It doesn't get too cold, doesn't get too hot. So right now it's kind of perfect, you know, 70 degrees. You know, it's nice to be here. It's nice to have this weather. My kids are all athletes, so it's nice to be able to go out and play year-round sports. So it's a lot of fun.

[1:50] Al Malafronte: Yeah, and your son's quite a player too, right?

[1:54] Jack Wilson: Yeah, no, it's exciting. He's over in Phoenix, Arizona at Grand Canyon University. I'm wearing all their swag stuff right now, being a proud dad. So yeah, he's over there. He's a sophomore this year. He's doing really well. It's a really great and upcoming program with great coaches. So we're excited to get the season started here. I think opening day is February 18th.

[2:15] Jack Wilson: And I know everyone hears opening day and they're like, "Ah, MLB." But like, we're really excited for opening day college baseball. That's like our main focus right now, not MLB opening day.

[2:26] Jack Wilson: I know, I know it's tough. I feel for the fans out there and players and stuff like that just having so many question marks leading up to this. I mean, right about now I was talking to my wife the other day, like we would be like a week and a half from leaving to go to spring training, and now these guys are gonna have to wait and see. It's tough, but it's part of it, I guess. You know, yeah, I mean, listen, you're smart, you got out of the game before Rob Manfred. We had our fair share of scares though. I mean, I got lucky in my 12 years that we ended up never having to be pushed back or anything like that. But there were some serious stuff coming up that they would let us know ahead of time like, "Hey, this offseason could be something," and they would come together and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But you know, this one seems to be a little bit more stressful, I guess.

[3:12] Al Malafronte: Yeah, and I'm always pro player with this type of stuff, especially with kind of what happened with the last CBA negotiation. But Jack, I know that we're an audio-only platform, the folks at home can't see this. It looks like you kind of have like it's kind of like a baseball meets entertainment man cave behind you, some of your memorabilia and some Hollywood stuff there. What do we have going on back there?

[3:31] Jack Wilson: Actually, most of my baseball stuff's this way. I got like, you know, I got some cool like jerseys that are framed up on my ceiling because I kind of lost room for everything. I have a bat rack with a bunch of signed bats from guys that I really liked playing against, but then all sports. I was a big soccer player growing up, and then when I was in Seattle, I was a big Seattle Sounders fan. So I got some Sounders stuff up. I got some penguin stuff up with Sidney Crosby and Mario Lemieux, and we used to go to their spring trainings when their spring trainings were happening, kind of end of our season. So we would go watch them kind of warm up and do their thing. And just kind of a room that it's just kind of sports and everything that's kind of happened in my life and my career that I can pass on and talk about to people that come over and my kids and stuff like that.

So it's full now. I don't have any more room, which is good because I don't have anything else to put up there. So it's been great to kind of collect all this stuff and be able to talk to people and tell stories about it.

[4:28] Al Malafronte: Now, does it feel like you've been out of the game for 10 years now? I mean, you had been at it, you know, you basically you retired in the middle of 2012, I guess. I mean, does it feel like it's been a full decade without putting on the uniform?

[4:42] Jack Wilson: You know what? It has. It's just gone by so fast because I think, gosh, I think I've never been more busy in my life than when I stopped playing baseball. I mean, with, you know, for the majority, you know, most every bit of my career, I was a father after my first year, and you know, mama was running the house. And when I came on the offseason, I just kind of I was the number two role. I wasn't even one A, one B. It was straight, you are number two. Like, you gotta learn your place here. So, like, I had to kind of filter into that, but then I retired, and then it was more, you know, partnership, more one A, one B. Okay, what is my role as a full-time dad? Because it was like I'm always playing baseball, always traveling somewhere. So, you know, coaching travel ball, doing AYSO soccer, doing high school baseball and traveling around and just being with the kids, it goes by so fast. But it's been a blast. It was perfect timing for me to really dive into my family.

[5:34] Al Malafronte: Now, do you go back and watch your old games? You know, some of those four-hit performances, or you know, maybe even the '04 All-Star game?

[5:42] Jack Wilson: Not really. You know, every now and then if I like because I like to teach. I've really been into coaching, you know, since I retired. So there's certain things that I like to pull up if there's a certain highlight or a low light, whatever it may be, that I would want to like kind of point out, you know, like a certain counter, you know, a certain at-bat, I guess, a picture or whatnot where it was applicable to what I was trying to teach at that moment. But really kind of that stuff, but nothing really like nostalgic and looking back and like, you know, because you end up thinking like, man, like I wish I'd done this. I could have done this better. And you know, you start thinking about that stuff, and you know, I just want to enjoy.

I look back and I'm really happy and proud of what I was able to accomplish against all odds and all that stuff because you look back and I watch games now. I watch major baseball games like how did I even play at that level to me? Because it's just like it's been such a long time. I don't even remember, you know, most of it because it was all it was so every day, it was an everyday routine. So, but I love the game, I love teaching. So it's been nice to stay involved.

[6:47] Al Malafronte: You really do have a lot to be proud of because not to mention you were coming up as a minor leaguer in the heart of the steroid era. So I mean, you really had to perform at a high level at a young age if you wanted to just get to the show and yet alone stay. I mean, that in itself, because you came up, it was literally what, 2001, right at the heart of this?

[7:04] Jack Wilson: 2001, yeah, opening day 2001. I was with St. Louis and then I got traded over to Pittsburgh the year before. So they really didn't have anybody in their system at shortstop, so I guess that's what they were needing. And I was stuck behind Renarina and Vinya. I was still a couple years away, anyways, because I was only in double A. But kind of getting sent over to Pittsburgh kind of gave me that, you could say, the HOV lane kind of just freeway right to the show and was able to be there and kind of take my lumps early, you know, as a major leaguer instead of going through triple A and stuff like that.

[7:37] Al Malafronte: Did you like playing in Pittsburgh?

[7:39] Jack Wilson: I did. Oh, perfect place for me. My dad was really big on respect to the game, playing the game the right way, you know, and Pittsburgh is the blue-collar town of the United States. They're all about they work hard for their money, the steel workers, that whole city, the fans. They just want people to represent their city. So it was almost a perfect mixture because it was kind of just how I was always taught how to play from my father and my coaches. So I was super young, I was 23, but I looked like I was 16. So I think when I got to spring training, people were referring to me as the bat boy because that's what I looked like, and like, no, I'm actually in camp trying to make the squad. But so it was, you know, I grew up there. My kids were raised there. So one of my favorite places in the world for sure.

[8:27] Al Malafronte: Now, obviously, you know, at the time the Pirates, they were in a little bit of a dry spell, but you were really one of the bright lights of those teams in like the mid-2000s, and you got regular playing time almost immediately. What was it about 2004 where everything just came together and you posted you hit .308, led the league in triples, 201 hits, made the All-Star team, Silver Slugger, the whole nine yards? What was it that clicked all of a sudden, you know, three years, three full years into the league?

[8:59] Jack Wilson: Well, I think mostly my whole life I was offensive. That was always been one of my things. I actually wasn't a very good defender until around double A is when I started to kind of figure out my athleticism was kind of I was starting to slow down the game a little bit. I was always just rushing everything so I was able to get better defensively. But you know, I'd always hit my entire life like upper, you know, if I'm not leading the team I'm second. I got drafted immediately, won a batting title in the Appalachian League, hit .370, then followed that in A ball, hit .340. You know, so I was always a hitter and when I got to big league camp and I ended up making the team, that's the consensus from what I understood was like, "Hey, you're gonna struggle, but we, you know, you're here for your defense, really going to struggle."

So I really focused on that part of my game more than I did offensively. I wanted to hit and I knew I could hit, but I was also kind of in the, "Okay, you want me to field the ball? I'm gonna spend most of my time trying to make sure that happens," and I kind of threw hitting off to the side. And then I struggled for like three weeks, they sent me back. Then I was like, "All right, I got to figure out this," but I'm facing triple A pitching compared to big league pitching was unreal. Like it was such a big drop off back then between big leaguers and triple A guys, and so I was killing. I ended up hitting .370 in the one month I was there, came back, oh big league pitchers back again, they're kind of filthy.

So I kind of just threw it in the back burner. Most of my offseason was focused on defense because that's how I had, that's how I think I was going to keep my job. No matter what, if my defense was there, I was going to be on the field. And in 2003, I literally just said, "I'm sick of not hitting." So I focused my whole offseason on hitting. I was like, "You know what? I'm going back to what I used to do." Everybody says I can't hit because I had three years in the big leagues at 23 years old, I was struggling, but I was just trying to figure everything out. And I literally focused my whole offseason just to offense. And then 2004 happened. So it was like, sweet. All right, cool. It was also one of my worst defensive years too.

So it's kind of like it was really tough to balance the two because I needed to be an upper echelon type defensive player because that was my way to stay in the game, to stay in the big leagues and help the Pirates out. But at the same time, I was just like, I really want to hit. I really want to get back to being on the positive side offensively.

[11:12] Al Malafronte: Right. I mean, and you know, you strike the balance of, you know, you're out in the field playing shortstop, but you're also 10 for your last 20, and you're itching to get back in the batter's box because you're hot, right? So naturally, I think the focus sometimes is gonna waver. That's natural.

[11:25] Jack Wilson: Yeah, it was just a thought process, especially in the offseason. Every offseason is different. You want to focus on something from the year before that you want to get better at while still staying, you know, clinging to what you're best at. So I think I just shifted over and said, "You know, I'm tired of hitting .250." I hit .220 my first year and .250 the next two. It was like I'm not a one for four type guy. I used to go, if I went one for four or one for five in the minor leagues, it was a bad day. Like I was coming home and we were hanging up a blanket, and my wife was soft tossing me freaking wiffle balls and hitting it into the blanket in the middle of our living room in our rented apartment. Like it was not happening, like it was a bad day. So I expected myself to get two hits every single day in the minor leagues, and I didn't have that feeling again until 2004 where I started expecting myself to be better.

[12:12] Al Malafronte: I mean, you retired as a .265 big league hitter. Isn't it nuts now? You see the league batting average is .240.

[12:20] Jack Wilson: Yeah, yeah, it's just a different game. Maybe it's just a different. I don't even know if I would have a place in this game, to be honest with you, because really no one hits the ball on the ground anymore. Everybody's trying to go deep. So it's a, you know, it's one of those every 10 or 15 years you see a kind of a shift in different things.

[12:36] Jack Wilson: And that's just the way it is now. It's just it's a different, very boring game. No, the three true outcomes. I can't stand it. I agree. Well, that's me, it's just strikeouts don't matter. Um, you know, there's no there's no funning, there's no hit and running, there's no baseball. Like the baseball for the for 120, 130 years was the same. And then now it's completely different than what it used to be. And, you know, it's just not as entertaining to me as a former player. I don't watch major league baseball anymore. I watch the box scores and I root on the pirates, but that's about it. And I love watching college because it's still bunting, it's still hit and running, it's still bunt plays, it's still, you know, enforcing the basics of the game that has been around for so long.

[13:22] Jack Wilson: The only thing I'm gonna disagree with you on is you said you're not sure if you would have a place in today's game. I'm not a huge analytics saber metrics guy, but you put up defensive wars that are like, you know, typical of what we would have seen with Andrelton Simmons a few years ago. What Omar Vizquel was doing back in the day and Ozzie Smith. Who are your guys growing up? You know, I know that soccer was kind of your first sport back then, but like, you know, as far as like idols at shortstop, like, you know, coming up through the minor league system or even before that, did you have like certain idols that you emulated yourself after on defense?

[13:56] Jack Wilson: I played so much soccer, I didn't even play much baseball. So I didn't even like root for it. I followed Kurt Stillwell, who was a middle infielder shortstop. He had about 11 years in the big leagues in the 80s and 90s. He was a hometown hero. He went to Thousand Oaks High School where I went, and he was in the big leagues while I was in high school, so I really kind of clung to him. I used to look at his retired number in the outfield and just be like, oh man, I kind of want to do that. Because that's at some point towards the end of my high school career I started to realize that baseball was probably going to be the best way to go to continue to play sports. There was no MLS at the time. Had there been, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now because I would have tried to go for that because I was much better at soccer in high school than I was at baseball and it was my passion.

It was my first love. So I really didn't pay attention to much baseball. I really wasn't really as interested as I was in watching the United States national team and Kobe Jones and Eric Wynalda and Tony Meola. Like that was my niche, that was my thing. So I really didn't have any team or really other than Kurt Stillwell, that was about it.

[14:58] Jack Wilson: Wow, so I didn't know that. So the reason why you didn't pursue soccer or the reason why you chose to pursue baseball was strictly because you had a chance to play it on a professional level? Yeah, I think I was looking, you know, I think any kid coming up through high school, your goal is like, man, I wish that'd be great to be able to play a sport for a long time, you know, to be an athlete and get paid for it. So I knew I had two avenues. I had three. I was a football kicker. I kicked field goals. I had a really big leg. So I actually got more offers for that than I did the other two sports. The problem is I was an idiot and didn't do my homework and my GPA was way too low to actually accept any of those.

So I ended up going to junior college. But I remember my last soccer game in high school, we tied against our rivals on the very last game and we didn't make playoffs that year. And I cried my eyes out because I knew that was it. Because I knew there wasn't anything. But if there was an MLS at that time and it would have been starting out fresh, that might have been something I would have pursued instead. I don't know exactly if that would have been like probably someone would have just slapped me in the face, be like, you're an idiot. All right, go try to play baseball. You can pretty decent and you might work out. But soccer was my thing for sure.

[16:06] Jack Wilson: Wow. That's just amazing to me because, you know, once in a while, you know, you talk about like not watching the game, you know, that much growing up. But, I mean, you know, these days it seems like in order to reach the major leagues, you have to play on all these travel baseball teams year-round essentially. It's just like it's just a completely different process. You obviously had some God-given talent, which certainly served you, but I just feel like you see it from your coaching perspective, like these travel showcases that you have to do, and all these, you know, you're constantly having to travel on the road, you know, while you're, you know, still in elementary school in some cases.

It's crazy. And it's like that's what it takes. It's a tough road, you know, especially too like, you know, kids are committing to colleges earlier than earlier and earlier. You know, you had kids that are, well, I had a player in high school that committed to a university in eighth grade, you know, it's and they feel like they have to do all these showcases all summer. And I always tell them it's like I was a high school coach for five years at Thousand Oaks High School, my alma mater, and I was always like, Listen, I played three sports in high school. I say baseball players who play other sports stick out because they can do things athletically that just baseball players can't do because their bodies are trained to do different athletic movements that transfer over.

I said, I tell them I said I would never play shortstop as well as I possibly could if I didn't have the footwork from being a forward and having to move them, manipulate the ball, make hard cuts, sprint, and get up, you know, do whatever I needed to do to get to a place to take a shot or score a goal or set somebody up. That footwork translated over to what I needed to do at shortstop, and I was able to do things that probably just a shortstop that didn't play any other sports couldn't do. I was used to hitting the ground and getting back up. I was used to my feet going really fast and making quick movements because I wasn't a fast guy, but I was quick. And quick is better than fast when it kind of comes to soccer.

So like those the footwork was huge for me that I developed playing a completely different sport. So you'll find a lot if you look at all your, you know, your superstar athletes, you'll find that most of them played other sports in high school.

[18:08] Jack Wilson: That's something else. And now, once you've reached the show, do you have like a favorite game, a favorite moment on the field that stands out above the other Shaq? Yeah, I'm and honestly, it's funny too, because I've gotten this question before, and you always have these really cool games or you have these really cool experiences. And for me, it's not even about like anything that I did. I loved watching Freddy Sanchez win a batting title. Like watching him throughout the year, being a bench guy to start the year off, pinch hitting and going like 12 for like 15, and then Joe Randa breaks his foot on a foul ball and he becomes a third baseman and he gets 200 hits and hits 350, whatever he ended up doing.

But watching him as a young player who hadn't established himself yet, watch him and then in the final day beat out Miguel Cabrera by knowing that all he needed to do was get one hit and going out to dinner with him the night before and having him like you could just see it spinning in his head. Like he's one hit away from being a batting title, you know, holder. And so that moment when he got that hit, I was on first base, and I just, that's me. I still get chills. That to me was like the coolest thing to see him achieve that and to be on the field and be he was my double play partner. Well, he played third base that year. He ended up being my double play partner for the next five years together.

And we played travel ball together in high school. So it was all just a really cool experience. And I like just kind of seeing that point of view rather than something that I did or something like that. It was more like I love those events where seeing other people's lives change and having their type of events, you know, that was cool to be a part of.

[19:48] Jack Wilson: I think most guys will tell you that. Like if there's something that happens, something so crazy, and it's kind of to somebody and to see where they started off and see how their career was going and to see that all happen. I think anybody would have that answer for the most part because, yeah, all-star games are cool, or you have a four-hit game, or you hit a two-run home run game in Houston. That was awesome. But it doesn't really measure up to some of the things like Rob Mackowiak hit a game-winning homer in game one of a doubleheader, and then again a game-tying homer in the second game of the doubleheader while having a baby in the morning. You like that stuff to me, like, yeah, I had two homers in one game, but dude hit two homers on the day of his birth of his, I think it was his son's birth.

He came to the field, played a doubleheader, walk-off first game, game-tying homer in the ninth in the second game, and like, okay, my two-homer game means absolutely nothing now because that was the coolest thing ever, you know. So it's just like those moments to me were super special to see firsthand, you know, as a teammate.

[20:51] Al Malafronte: Oh my god. Yeah, I mean, you've you had a lot, you mentioned you know, a number of your teammates. You got to play with some pretty cool ones, and you ended up playing in Atlanta towards the end of your career. You got to play with Chipper Jones. Um, I know you spent time with Ichiro in Seattle. You got to watch so many of these legends and play alongside so many of these great, you know, Hall of Fame or future Hall of Fame players. I mean, it's just in some senses, like we're never gonna see another Ichiro Suzuki. There's not too many guys like Chipper Jones switch hitters hitting 300 with, you know, a 900 OPS, for example. You know, it's just like what a unique time. Griffey for a year and a half too in Seattle at the end of his career.

[21:29] Jack Wilson: Oh, that what was he like in the clubhouse towards the end? Because I know there's that story about the best.

[21:38] Jack Wilson: He's the best, he's a big kid. He loved being a baseball player, he loved being in the clubhouse. I think that's what he cherished most. I mean, obviously, one of the greatest, you know, top maybe five baseball players of all time of what he can do on all facets of the game. And he was just a, you know, he was the glue in our clubhouse. He was so much fun to be around. He really loved the game. And I think he really, towards those last couple of years where he, you know, returned back to Seattle to kind of finish the story that he had written. Um, I think he just had a lot of fun and he treated everybody awesome. He was just a great guy. You know, he always gets all these autograph requests, like he'll, you know, his dugout, you know, you got probably two dozen boxes from the other side from the other team wanting Ken Griffey Jr. autographs, and he's like, Man, everybody wants this autographs all the time.

He's like, tell everybody what I gotta sign some every day. I'm like, Griffey, stop being so good. Stop hitting homers. Yeah, just erase the 600 home runs that you had to this. You're going to the hall, like people are gonna want your autograph, bro. So he was perfect because we were on the bus, we all waited for Griffey to get off because when he got off the bus, everyone was like ripping, ripping, and you can just slide on by because they don't want yours. So he was like our leader. Like, if we like all those people who want his stuff, like they're all lined up. They're not there. They're not lined up to see us. Like, they're seeing Ichiro and Griffey. So, and he was always great about signing stuff. He's a great human. He's really great, really great guy. Same with Ichiro. He's phenomenal.

[23:01] Jack Wilson: So it makes sense to me. You said that you know, you get to slip on by it. You like to fly under the radar, but just because you're obviously not an attention guy. I love talking to fans and signing stuff and talking to kids and taking time. I never, it never bothered me. I thought it was part of the game. Kurt Stillwell did that for me. He came back in an off season and did a camp, and I was like a sophomore in high school, and I went to his camp and I like loaded him with questions, and he took his time and like we had like a regular conversation. Like he was just a regular guy, and I was a regular kid, and I always remembered that. I was like, man, that felt so special to me. And like when I got that opportunity, I wanted to always keep that in mind because it's just like how long does it take to sign an autograph for a kid?

And you have the autograph seekers, which I don't mind those guys anyway, because everyone's got like two autographs. You got the autograph seekers that just want, like, okay, can you sign 47 cards? And you're like, so you got the like the real quick one, but then like the kids are coming up, then you get the nice one, you can read it, you got your, you know, number on there, because you kind of had two a little bit, you know. So I never minded that part. I enjoyed talking, I just remembered who I was and where I came from, and I really enjoyed that process. So I think that's why, you know, Pittsburgh and I mesh so well is because I was always about, you know, trying to go out there and make Pittsburgh proud, you know. They were great fans. To me, they treated my wife and my kids awesome, you know, the whole time we were there. So I was always about giving back as much as I could.

[24:28] Al Malafronte: Now it's cool. You still have a little bit of involvement with the organization, right? You get invited back to spring training every now and then.

[24:34] Jack Wilson: Not spring training. I do their alumni stuff, like their fancy camps, and sometimes I'll show, you know, they'll have me come out to the stadium. It's a little different. I'm, you know, obviously four and a half, five hours away. So and then last couple of years with COVID and stuff like that, I haven't been really able to get out. But I stay involved as much as I can, especially in coaching high school baseball. Sometimes we'll play against a kid that maybe coming up with a draft they might be interested in and they might reach out and be like, hey, what did you see about this kid?

[25:04] Jack Wilson: I'd be like yeah sweet yeah he's this this and this so I try to help out as much as I can because there's still they I always felt they gave me an opportunity they traded for me. They gave me an opportunity to be a big leader for a long time and I've always honored and respected that and then and so I try to do as much for them as I can.

[25:19] Al Malafronte: Now here's a tough one because you know you mentioned your time in Seattle and of course you're primarily known for your time with the Pirates. You got to play in two of the nicest stadiums in all of baseball with both PNC Park and uh Safeco Field which is now I think is it T-Mobile field. Which one was nicer?

[25:36] Jack Wilson: Who knows? Oh PNC PNC PNC who knows the name of Seattle's now it's like they change it all the time. I love the field the fans were awesome. The problem with that I always had was like okay it's not a dome it's an umbrella. So it's still freezing. Like when you go you know if you have a dome like you're always thinking oh man I'm gonna it's gonna be 79 degrees it's gonna be perfect weather to play and then I'm like oh I'm going to Seattle it's like it's a dome it's like no it's not enclosed on the side so it's cold. Even when it's cold and it's like oh man just spend the extra 50 million just close it up at the sides and we'll be good. So I was always cold. I was like because it you know it's it's a little bit cooler there even in the summertime.

So, but beautiful stadium, beautiful city, obviously, the Emerald City is great. Fans were great, um, really passionate about their big soccer, big time soccer fans. So it was always great to have the Seattle Sounders there. They would play, we would both play on a Saturday, and one of us would have the night game, one of them has the day game. And literally, fans would go to one and then literally just parade down the street to the football stadium or the soccer stadium and watch that game. And I'd be right there in the parade after our my whole family would be dressed up in Seattle Sounders gear, and we'd be walking with the people from the baseball field to the soccer field so we can go watch our Sounders play. So loved, loved that part of it. It was a lot of fun.

[26:54] Jack Wilson: Now, uh on the subject of stadiums and cities, obviously, you know, we're based here in New York City, and you had a couple of opportunities to play at Yankee Stadium, the old Yankee Stadium during the final years there. Can you tell us a little bit about what stands out about those trips to New York?

[27:10] Jack Wilson: Yeah, I'm New York was by far my favorite city by far. We are we're big Broadway people. We love going to Broadway shows. Um, and that started with because you know, family members, my family and then extended family would always look at the schedule, and obviously we picked the cities they want to go to. You got your Chicago's, some people like to go to Houston, you know, whatever, but everybody circles New York, you know. So um love the original stadium was so awesome. It smelled so bad, but it was but it was Yankee Stadium, like you didn't care. Like the not too many places you're gonna show up like two, three hours earlier than you normally do, just to be there and walk around and stand in the box and look up where you got the babe on one side, you got Nick on both sides, Joe DiMaggio, like you're just standing there and looking at what they looked at.

You know, there was nothing like that. So being able to get to play there a couple times before the new stadium was a was a really a big treat for me. I really loved it. I got to be the first pirate ever to hit a home run at Yankee Stadium. But someone when I hit it, we were always getting our butt kicked, so it was like whatever. I hit a home run. Like, but it turned out it was the first time a Pittsburgh Pirate had ever hit a home run at Yankee Stadium. So I have that.

[28:27] Jack Wilson: Yeah, yeah. Because that's right. They never would have played them before in the regular season, right? 1960 World Series. That doesn't count. Yeah. So it was even then in the World Series, no pirate had hit a home run during the World Series at New York. So it wasn't. I knew that the Yankees crushed them at home, but I didn't know. Like, why are you talking to me? We just got blasted against the Yankees. And that was like the Yankees Yankees, where you had like Chef Deal and you had uh like Tino at first, and you had Robbie or Alfonso Soriano at second, and G you're like that Posada. Like that was that team. You're like, oh great, we're going to New York. Like, this will be fun. The 05 team.

Oh, it's one of my favorite teams ever. Yes. They were they were fun to play. Just a great place to play, passionate fans, you know. And anytime you get to to go to New York and play against the Yankees. I mean, do those are I think I pretty much remember every single game I played against the Yankees anywhere home, right? Just because it was just the Yankees. It's different. It's just different. Yeah.

[29:29] Jack Wilson: You uh you mentioned your love of Broadway. Did you like the arts growing up, or was that just from the road trips to New York City?

[29:35] Jack Wilson: No, we happened, we happened to go. We happened, my wife came out uh and she she kind of wanted to make it just a uh me and her trip. You know, I was playing there, and she's like, I'm just gonna come and leave the kids back with her parents. And she brought a uh two of her cousins, so they were kind of doing like a girls' trip, and then we had a day game at the Yankee Stadium. So we're like, what are we gonna do at night? And I'm like, we should go see a show, and we had never seen a show before. And I'm like, I hear this wicked thing is pretty freaking awesome. So that was an opening to a whole new lifestyle because uh when I sat there and I watched Wicked all the way through, I was like, there's no way the rest of these things can be like this.

This is amazing. So that became our thing. We uh anytime we went to New York, we'd bring the kids, we'd take them to shows, and then we had um over the years, I had opportunities to play at like the Cooperstown for like the little Hall of Fame game they have, and then we would double it, go to New York, hit a bunch of shows. We did New Year's Eve, I believe four years ago. So we did the whole ball drop, the whole nine yards. We did like five shows in like seven days. We have like a playbill notebook full of all of our playbills, like it's our kids love it. My son, not so much, but my girls are big into it. You sound pretty into it too, though, which is freaking awesome. That's all that matters.

[30:55] Jack Wilson: I I think too. I think but people like when you're in Broadway, you're the best of the best. So it's almost like when you go to Yankee Stadium and you're watching major league, or you're seeing the best in the world, and that's what Broadway is. You're talking about they could they're unbelievable singers, they're unbelievable actors and actresses, and it's just you sit there in awe on how amazingly talented these people are, and to me, it's just it's I like to just sit back and and see these just what they can do, and it's like you can watch a movie or you can listen to a CD or or I said C D Sorry, it's a little out of data for everybody. But you can do that all you want, but man, when you sit there and you hear it live and you hear how unbelievable these people are, uh, I think it's just a joy to watch, and it's just so much fun.

So I love New York. We have Pantages Theater out here in Hollywood and LA. It's not even the same as like double A triple A like Broadway stuff. Because when you're in Broadway you're the best of the best so it's like we've seen so many shows news Jersey boys wicked five times wow you got me beat on Wicked and that's one of the few shows that I've seen more than once so that's yeah Hamilton was Hamilton on Broadway was something else. I mean you need to sell your car to get a ticket but it was amazing.

[32:09] Jack Wilson: Wait did you go and Lynn and Leslie were in the show?

[32:12] Al Malafronte: No I didn't no I went just after just after it was still amazing uh you know because at the you know at the time we we just didn't match up with going to New York at the time plus I think it was a lot higher price. Even now it's not terrible but back then when he was going and that original cast was going that you see it you know you see on Disney Plus or you see uh or you hear in on the uh recordings like that's that was an amazing show the it's it's nice and you know so we'd love to go back at some point here pretty soon and catch some more because there's always just great shows but the talent is amazing it's so much fun to watch dude I would love nothing more than to hit up Broadway with you because as you know our backdrop here man baseball meets Broadway and the fact what tell me when you watch the uh Hamilton movie what would you have a favorite like Leslie Odam Jr song the audience knows he's probably my favorite Broadway actor what's your favorite Leslie?

[32:25] Jack Wilson: He was amazing like I he was doing those commercials like nationwide is on your side whatever he was doing I was like who is this guy and then I saw Hamilton and then I saw like he was you know the original cast I'm like oh okay now I know because I didn't know who he was at the time when he was doing his commercials like who's this dude he sounds really good you know and uh yeah he was amazing I love watching the Disney Plus and being able you know or you know being able to see the original cast I thought obviously Lynn Manuel's brilliant and he's brilliant enough to tape it so we all can experience you know that original cast um so yeah I you know what I I can't really pick out a song I think it was funny too because I didn't know in the originals before they got on Broadway there was like nine more songs that are like secret like didn't make it because it made it too long and so like I know he had some killer ones in there too um from from what the people were saying we got a little backstage kind of thing when we got to go there and they said yeah it was actually like another 45 minutes longer I was like wow but uh but it was yeah it it's amazing and that's a that was a phenomenal cast I wish I would have got to see the original but the this cast we saw was amazing too.

[32:25] Jack Wilson: Holy cow it sounds like you have quite a ledger what's uh like out of all the playbills that you have like what's your favorite cover on a playbill?

[32:25] Jack Wilson: Oh I mean I have him right here oh man Mikey boy you're gonna have to take some screenshots of this what do we got no I do um I like the dear Evan hansen one he's got his cast unsigned yeah hasn't been signed yet uh we did finding neverland that was a really good one one of my yeah one of my absolute favorites yes he was phenomenal uh newsies actually was one is probably one of our top two or three it was only on for that small period of time and then right as it was getting super popular it like bounced and it was like wasn't on Broadway anymore and that was that was amazing we saw uh I think her name's Kara Lindsay yeah she friend of our show she came on uh break it back dude she's insane like because we saw her in Newsies, and I was like, this girl's amazing.

And then literally, like the next time we went and saw Wicked and she was Glinda. That's right. And like a cool. You can do anything. Like, she was amazing. And then we just watched newsies on Broadway. They went back and recorded the original cast. You can watch that now. And got to see her sing again. I was like, man, yeah, she was one of our favorites. And yeah, that that was a really cool show. I think we all ended up with like those newsies newspaper kids' hats. We all like they were like selling those. I think we all have those somewhere. We were into it. Like that was a really, really good show. They did well done the dancing, tap dance, everyone's tap dancing at the same time. Like, this is it was pretty awesome.

[35:41] Jack Wilson: Kara was uh laughing. I told her my favorite song in the whole show is obviously her big numbers, watch what happens, but they do the reprise version, the reprise version of that. And uh when I lived, you know, when back when I had a roommate with my buddy Matt, uh I used to I used to sing, you know, parts of that song. It's like we've got a plan. And he would I would sing that song so much that even he who doesn't even like Broadway was singing that reprise was so damn catchy.

[36:08] Jack Wilson: Now that yeah, she she's in a style of people you talk about. You teach about these amazing, and that nobody, unless you really follow Broadway, you don't really know. You're like, oh, we can talk about all these superstars on on movies and stuff, but and but the talent that's there on a nightly basis in that city is just oh, I'm so like I wish I could be there. I wish I lived there. That would be amazing. I'd be like, anytime you want, man, you got a parking spot because we're going to Broadway.

[36:37] Al Malafronte: There it is. I love it. I love it. I'm in. Who's the uh coolest person you ever got to sign a playbill?

[36:43] Jack Wilson: I didn't get anybody to sign a play bull. I I I tried. I even when I do that, I'm such an idiot that I we had backstage hookup at Hamilton and we met all the actors, and I'm just like, nah, hi. Like, oh, you know, I'm gonna talking like I don't even have the right mind to bring out a freaking Sharpie and get a signature. And like this is the dumbest thing. I look back now, I'm like, and you say that, and I'm going, well, I'm an idiot. All right, because apparently I got nothing.

[37:08] Al Malafronte: We'll send it, we'll just send something to Cara, right?

[37:11] Jack Wilson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll I'll I'll take care of it for you.

[37:13] Al Malafronte: There we go. God, I love Cara Lizzie. What she's so great. And I got I gotta tell her that uh you're a big fan of her. Did you meet her when you were here?

[37:22] Jack Wilson: No, no, because like we we you know, with with the kids, they were like we would like see the show, and then like we'd have to go. What's the uh juniors, right?

[37:37] Jack Wilson: And then is the restaurant where all the waitresses are singers and stuff, and oh, uh, Ellen Stardust Diner?

[37:45] Al Malafronte: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's still there.

[37:46] Jack Wilson: Oh, yeah, yeah.

[37:47] Al Malafronte: I heard it's awesome.

[37:49] Jack Wilson: That was always those two places where our main after show, before a show, that's where we would go eat. So we really didn't have time to really hang out and wait for the cast to come out and stuff like that and do autographs. And in retrospect, you kind of look back and wish you did if you had an opportunity to do that because we keep the Playbills in this little notebook and stuff because it's special. We really enjoyed, you know, our time and seeing these shows, and we tell people about it, like especially if it comes out here to Hollywood, like go see the show, it's amazing. Like we saw it on Broadway. So it's just a really cool part of our lives that I think we'll always have, especially with our girls, to be able to go and say, "Hey, let's go, let's go see a show." And you know, it's awesome.

[38:28] Al Malafronte: Now, Jack, I'm Italian. I'm gonna give you one suggestion for your next trip to New York when you do make it back here. You gotta go to Tony's DiNapoli. Best family style Italian. That's my, as a lifelong New Yorker, I can't give a better endorsement of a post-show spot to eat, yeah.

[38:45] Jack Wilson: My wife is all about Italian food.

[38:48] Al Malafronte: So perfect.

[38:49] Jack Wilson: Absolutely. Thank you for that. I'm in.

[38:51] Al Malafronte: Awesome. Now, Jack, you've been absolutely epic in the Batter's Box today. We do a little segment here on the show that's probably going to take you back to your playing days because you're gonna visualize me as Aroldis Chapman right now, you know, just the fastest throwing man ever.

[39:06] Jack Wilson: Oh no.

[39:07] Al Malafronte: An arsenal of fastballs. Did you ever face Chapman when you were?

[39:09] Jack Wilson: Yeah, because you might have to.

[39:11] Al Malafronte: I so wanted to.

[39:12] Jack Wilson: I so wanted to. He was with the Reds and we never met. I think he went to, he was with the Reds when I went over to Seattle, so we never matched up, and I totally wanted to because I love dudes that threw hard. I like love the fastball. So I really wanted to see what 102 looked like. Because back then he was the only one doing it. Now everybody does it apparently. Everybody throws 100 miles an hour. It's crazy. But I want, I really wanted to see that at the time, but now it's like you turn on the TV and average Joe's pumping 102 already, so it's kind of not a thing anymore.

[39:43] Al Malafronte: Well, here's your chance to see Aroldis Chapman right in front of you without the neck tattoos or anything like that or any anger issues. And I'm going to throw some fastballs your way. Think of it like the bottom of the ninth, Chapman's on the mound throwing 105. You gotta think quick. Give your best swing. I'll ask you a question. You tell me what comes to mind. How does that sound?

[40:03] Jack Wilson: All right. I'm gonna do my best.

[40:05] Al Malafronte: All right, Jack. I'll try to throw some. Don't worry, it's not trivia. Just give it your best shot, and we can make fun if you, if we don't like the answer.

[40:14] Jack Wilson: Yeah, I'm cool with that.

[40:16] Al Malafronte: Okay, um, favorite New York City meal.

[40:20] Jack Wilson: Alan's diner.

[40:22] Al Malafronte: Okay. Toughest pitcher you ever had to face.

[40:25] Jack Wilson: Jake Peavy.

[40:28] Al Malafronte: Coolest piece of memorabilia you kept from your playing career.

[40:33] Jack Wilson: Crap. Um, coolest piece. I have an All-Star glove that's made for the All-Star game in 2004 with all the shortstops that were in that game. So Barry Larkin, Derek Jeter, um, Michael Young. Yeah, probably that one. Or Ichiro's, I have a pair of Ichiro shoes. Those are pretty cool too.

[40:49] Al Malafronte: That is pretty damn cool. You just rattled off a bunch of Hall of Famers. Cool.

[40:53] Jack Wilson: Yeah.

[40:53] Al Malafronte: Larkin, yeah, Ichiro, Jeter, yeah.

[40:56] Jack Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

[40:56] Al Malafronte: Yeah, my boys. And you saw and you signed alongside him.

[40:59] Jack Wilson: There we go. That's perfect.

[41:01] Al Malafronte: Yeah. You know what? I didn't sign that glove.

[41:03] Jack Wilson: Oh, let's probably do that.

[41:09] Al Malafronte: Most embarrassing on the field moment.

[41:13] Jack Wilson: Oh, I had a ball go between my legs against Texas in a one-run game with one out in the ninth. And we end up losing that. They end up walking us off. So anytime ball between the legs. I don't care where you're at. It's pretty darn embarrassing, but not the right time to do it there.

[41:30] Al Malafronte: You can be the lead in one Broadway musical. What is it?

[41:33] Jack Wilson: Yeah, Newsies.

[41:37] Al Malafronte: You'd be a good Jack.

[41:38] Jack Wilson: Hey, you are Jack, so there you go.

[41:41] Jack Wilson: Little Santa Fe. Bottom line. It's Crutchy.

[41:45] Al Malafronte: You already got the advantage with your name. That's perfect.

[41:48] Jack Wilson: Yeah.

[41:49] Al Malafronte: Soundtrack from a Broadway flop, a show that didn't do as well that you enjoy the most.

[41:56] Jack Wilson: I don't know how I have all the, like, I'm a kid, the girls listen to all the gems. So like we'll go back and forth between Hamilton, we'll do Newsies, we'll do Dear Evan Hansen. I don't have any of the floppers. Although I'm now a Tick Tick Boom dude. So we just watched that the other day, and it was amazing and learning about his life and Rent and all that stuff. So I'm about to jump on that bandwagon now too.

[42:19] Al Malafronte: Oh yeah, that's a good bandwagon to jump off.

[42:22] Jack Wilson: I'm a front runner, I guess. I just got all the awesome ones. Well, the good thing about the, but you know what? I am from California, it's not exactly my fault. Only the great ones make it over here, right? So like Wicked comes to California, like Newsies come to California, like if it doesn't make it there, we don't really see it.

[42:38] Al Malafronte: Right. Well, the good thing about Rent is if you even if you go watch the movie, I think it's on HBO Max now, most of the original Broadway cast is in the movie. And they shot it like, you know, maybe 10 years after it was on Broadway. So, uh, yeah, I would check. That's a good, I'm glad to watch Tick Tick Boom because I think, uh, as a, do you do you think it's good, the movie?

[42:57] Jack Wilson: The Rent movie? I've heard mixed reviews on the movie compared to the show.

[43:01] Al Malafronte: Well, here's the thing. I never got to see it on stage, so I can only speak for the movie. I like the music in it, I like the cast. I think, you know, I would probably, does my love of Idina Menzel influence my decision a bit? Perhaps, but overall it's worth a watch. If you're in that headspace, especially now that you know a little bit about Jonathan Larson with Tick Tick Boom, I'd say it's worth a watch.

[43:24] Jack Wilson: Right. Would you, well how would you rate it between what they did with Jersey Boys?

[43:28] Al Malafronte: Jersey Boys show, Jersey Boys series.

[43:31] Jack Wilson: Terrible.

[43:31] Al Malafronte: There you go. Okay, because Jersey Boys, the show is amazing. It's epic on stage, but that movie was just garbage. I'm not Clint Eastwood, and he's like, "I gotta Clint Eastwood this." And I'm like, "Well, in there, and we can make it a Clint Eastwood movie." Like, it's like, how do you not make a Joe Pesci, uh, how do you not make Joe Pesci epic? You know, like that's what I mean. And even Fred, I mean, this is no disrespect on any of the actors. I just think that the vision that they had in mind was just misguided. It's hard. It's hard because I think that they were like, when is Wicked gonna be a movie? And you're almost like, I kind of hope it doesn't. Well, look at what happened with the Dear Evan Hansen movie. A lot of people felt the same way.

[44:09] Jack Wilson: Well, the dude's 32 and he's playing a high schooler, so it didn't stop, uh, didn't stop them from making Grease with, uh, in the 70s with Stockard Channing in like her mid-30s playing a high schooler.

[44:22] Al Malafronte: That's true.

[44:23] Jack Wilson: She pulled it off, I think. I think she pulled it off with the Pink Ladies. She pulled that one off, though. That movie's, that was kind of like the original for me. Like, gosh dang, this was a show. This is pretty good.

[44:33] Al Malafronte: Yeah, the still to me the pinnacle movie musical, hands down.

[44:38] Jack Wilson: Oh yeah.

[44:39] Al Malafronte: Yeah, yeah. Everything kind of bows down to that one. Grease will be forever. Like, that'll never go away.

[44:44] Jack Wilson: That's the truth.

[44:46] Al Malafronte: Jack Wilson's favorite late night snack.

[44:49] Jack Wilson: It's, uh, 2 a.m. You're on the, maybe not 2 a.m., but it's midnight, you're on the couch hanging out. What are you grabbing?

[44:54] Jack Wilson: It is probably chips and salsa, most likely.

[44:58] Al Malafronte: Fact about Jack Wilson that would surprise people the most.

[45:04] Jack Wilson: I love Broadway shows.

[45:08] Al Malafronte: Perfect.

[45:08] Jack Wilson: Perfect. I cannot have a conversation with people out here about this stuff. Like, this is the first time I've been able to talk about it to anybody that's not my own kids ever, because they'll look at me like, "What?" I'm like, "Yeah, never mind."

[45:20] Al Malafronte: Well, I do think we started breaking bat, man. Our job here is to provide a platform for fans of sports and the arts, and you embody that, bro. This is epic. You're building the bridges right there. You're building the bridge through two. And it's just like, you know, because you can explain it so much, and they're like, "Yeah, we don't get it." Like, I have to drag people to go see shows. I drag people to go see Wicked in a pantation. Like, "Will you please come?" I'm like, "I will put on Wizard of Oz on the car ride there so you can get in the mood. Please come see the show." And then they do, and they like, "Oh my gosh, I said I told you." Now every time I say something, you're gonna come with me because I don't want any more questions. Because I can't give you the movie to Jersey Boys. It'll ruin it.

[46:00] Jack Wilson: Yeah, yeah.

[46:03] Al Malafronte: Oh my god, Jack, this is epic now. This is the last fastball. Um, you know, and feel free to answer it any way you want. What's the best piece of advice anyone ever gave you?

[46:16] Jack Wilson: Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I think my dad, you know, told me like to just be yourself at all times. Like there was this quote that I saw in an elevator reminding me of my dad and what he said. It said that it was in the elevator in Seattle, just random, like daily quote of the day in an elevator. And I said, "Be yourself because the people that mind don't matter, and the people that matter don't mind." I was like, "Oh man, that's good." That's good. There's one of two quotes that I live by in my life. The other one was for Professor Dumbledore.

[46:52] Al Malafronte: Oh, now you gotta go see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. That's obviously you're gonna be amazing.

[46:56] Jack Wilson: I know. I'm not on that. Mr. Dumbledore, Professor Tulferry, he says there's gonna come a point in time where you have to choose between what's right and what's easy. And when you're teaching high school baseball players about life, like Dumbledore comes in handy quite a bit.

[47:12] Al Malafronte: Yeah, that's the damn truth.

[47:15] Jack Wilson: So just be yourself. I mean, it's just be yourself. I mean, you know, be a good person, be kind to others. Love everybody. You know, you get one life to live. There's confrontations and all that good stuff, all the negativity that we face in the world at every given moment. You're like, you know what? You just gotta look at the bright side, try to stay positive and do the best with what you got.

[47:36] Al Malafronte: Jack, I absolutely love it, man. Dude, you've got a parking spot reserved. Anytime you want to come on and talk some Broadway, dude, the Batter's Box is all yours, man.

[47:45] Jack Wilson: Beautiful. No, this was great. Like I said, I don't get to talk about the passion for Broadway shows and, you know, whatever, 4,000 miles away, whatever we are. But, uh, no, I'm happy, man. This is a lot of fun.

[48:01] Al Malafronte: Jack, thank you, brother. I so appreciate it. And for all the folks at home who may want to connect with you on Instagram, social media, where's the best place for them to find you?

[48:09] Jack Wilson: Dude, I don't even know my Instagram name.

[48:14] Al Malafronte: Well, link it, folks.

[48:16] Jack Wilson: Yeah, link it for me, would you? My girls got me on Instagram during COVID. They're like, "Dad, you need to get on." I'm like, "Really? This stuff is so, like, I don't get it half the time, but you know, yeah, I don't even know mine. It's like underscore something. I don't know what it is." But if you can link, I'll link you.

[48:33] Al Malafronte: Don't worry, it's Jack.wilson_2.

[48:40] Jack Wilson: That's it apparently. It looks fake. That's what all my USA players are telling me. Like, "Coach, you gotta give it a different inch and title. Everybody thinks it's the fake one." I was like, "This is just what they gave me when I signed up." So I don't want to change it and mess it all up, but it looks fake.

[48:57] Al Malafronte: So if it looks fake and it has my name on it, it's probably me.

[49:00] Jack Wilson: Jack, you're the absolute man. Thank you again, my friend.

[49:03] Al Malafronte: No, I appreciate it. This was a blast. Thanks, Al. My pleasure. And, uh, thank you to all the folks at home who listened to us tonight. Uh, one of my favorite baseball chats, uh, one of my favorite baseball meets Broadway chats that we've ever had. And, uh, I'm so grateful to all of you in our audience. So, with that being said, we're gonna close out the ball game. This is Al Malafronte signing off from the Batter's Box. We'll see you next time.

[49:28] Jack Wilson: Thanks for listening to Break a Bat. This is produced by the fine folks at the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit and subscribe at bpn.fm/breakabat.

[49:40] Al Malafronte: You can find me online at break_a_bat_podcast. And you can also find the Broadway Podcast Network on Instagram at Broadway Podcast Network. It's been so great having you here with us today, and we'll see you next time.