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[0:04] Kerry Butler: Once I played a penny who just couldn't stop the bead. Yes, with all the skits on her feet. Although just recently to see. A real quo mom. Uh version of Teen of Thina. Now come with me, Emma. I am your host, Miss Kerry Butler. Together, you and I are breaking Broadway.

[0:54] Kerry Butler: Welcome to Breaking Broadway. I recently announced the launch of my signature course, Breaking Into Broadway, and I have a super special offer just for my podcast listeners. Check it out at kerrybutlercoach.com slash Broadway Podcast. I'm back with the amazing Mandy Gonzalez for our side hustle episode.

[1:19] Kerry Butler: So I'm doing this whole series on how important it is to have something else going on because I'm sure you have had downtimes. I mean, I've had like years when I wasn't on Broadway.

[1:32] Mandy Gonzalez: What? Yes. Hello. It's called being an actor.

[1:37] Kerry Butler: Yes. And you're somebody who always has something else going on. I guess you started that coaching business, right?

[1:45] Mandy Gonzalez: Yeah. The theater business. Belting with the Beast.

[1:49] Kerry Butler: Yeah, you had that. You had you have writing, writing Fearless, a whole series, which now has its third book coming out, and we have the books. My daughter loves them. And you will do all of these, you're always creating new concerts. Am I missing anything of all of the other side things?

[2:08] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh my gosh, I don't know. You know, my brain is very busy. I'm always thinking of ideas, I'm always thinking of things, and I'm the kind of person that, you know, even though I think, well, I don't know if this is a good idea or not, like I just go for it. And I don't know where that comes from. But it's just this thing inside of me where I just feel like, well, if I don't do it, like somebody else is gonna do it. And then I'm gonna think like, why didn't I do it? And like you, we go through a lot of rejection, but we had just spoken recently on your other podcast about when I became a mom, and, you know, I had wanted to be a mom so bad, it was like beyond important to me. I wanted that to be a part of my life, and I was very fortunate that that happened for me and my husband, and I remember after about six months of being home with her, feeling this need to, I don't know what it was, you know, feeling this itch, and I felt really bad about it because I felt like I have everything that I want.

Why do I need something more? You know, before I had had her, you know, the last show that I had done was Wicked. I played Elphaba on Broadway, and I was like, I'm gonna take time and just be a mom and be with her, and I don't want to do anything else. And then all of a sudden it was like, yes, you do. What are you gonna do?

[3:36] Mandy Gonzalez: And I remember talking to my mom about it, who was also a working parent, and she said, well, we're Gonzalez, we work. You need to get back to work. And I was like, oh, right, like, okay, I'll do that. So I felt like, well, I'll just get back to work. And I went in audition after audition for things. And like I had said, sometimes when you're a mom and you are public about being a mom, you get put into a different category. And in the room, all of a sudden people look at you a little bit differently. And before that, I think I played a lot of ingenue type roles. Right. And I think I was getting rejected, like left and right. You know, I had a family and I had, you know, things that I needed to take care of.

And so I needed to work. And if I'm getting rejected and I'm not getting jobs from other people, well, I have to create my own thing. And I remember not having any money and taking $400 out of my bank account so that I could hire a director and a musical director so I could create a show. 54 Below was going to give me one night. And they were gonna give me one night, and I wanted to make the most of it. And I put together a show, and like you do when you put things out there, things start to come back to you.

[4:57] Mandy Gonzalez: And from that, I had a concert promoter who was interested in me and wanted to start hiring me for concerts, and that started to build up my self-esteem when it came to creating my own things. And then I felt more comfortable when somebody said, oh, do you want to come work with this symphony? Do you want to come do this? I said, well, yes, I can do that. And then also at that time, I had a friend who was creating her own teaching platform for her school that she owned in Buffalo. And I remember her asking me if I would come and do master classes and things like that, which I had never done before. And I said, yeah, why not? So I felt like, oh, this is something I can do, and this is something I really, really enjoy.

And I love telling stories and getting up and singing songs that I absolutely love. I love listening to younger people, younger artists, and giving them any advice that I might possibly have to help them. I've been in this business a long time. So I feel like I have something to say. And so that really gave me the confidence to be an artist and to create my own things.

[6:10] Mandy Gonzalez: And I remember feeling that, well, I can't have that name of artist on me because I really I work for other people and I make whatever they create come to light, you know. But I'm not like an artist, but now with everything that I do, I feel like I am an artist, so I feel comfortable saying that. And because I know what it takes to put yourself out there and not have a net that you know is there, but really just having to leap.

[6:40] Kerry Butler: That's awesome. And what do you say to people who say, you know, well, if I did, I have to just focus on, you know, getting to Broadway or, you know, this is what I'm meant to do, and you're doing all this other?

[6:56] Mandy Gonzalez: Well, I think that doesn't change. I think it started for me. Those other things kind of started when I was a kid because of, you know, because of my grandma, you know, I took lessons and I did things like that, but then my singing teacher was like, you know, there's this club in Hollywood called The Cynegrill at the Roosevelt Hotel, and you should put together an evening show. And I think I was about 16 years old, and I met my musical director for that, which was Bill Schneider, who is still in Los Angeles, who is an incredible musician and just arranger everything. And I put together the show at The Cynegirl, and I was terrified, I didn't know what to say. And my grandma came with like all her friends.

Of course, my brother had to come. And, you know, all anybody that I knew, but I was like, oh, I like this. I like being able to do this. I didn't do that again until I did my 54 Below show. But I knew that I could do it. And putting together that show is how I met Bill Schneider. And when I was in my first year of college at CalArts, my only year of college, I don't recommend going to college, everyone. But for me, Bill Schneider was Bette Midler's vocal arranger for her background vocals. And at that time they were looking for new Harlettes to back up Bette. And I didn't have an agent, and so Bill called me and said, hey, do you want to go to the open call? And I went to the open call and I waited in line with everybody else with my little crop top, and I was like, oh my god, I'm so cute. And that's how I got that job, and I became a backup vocalist for Bette Midler on tour, and it completely changed my life.

[8:48] Mandy Gonzalez: So you never know. Sometimes I tell young people, you never know when you say yes to something, what that could mean in the long run. So just because you're like I want to be on Broadway and I'm going to all the, you know, the Broadway camps and I'm, you know, following all the Broadway people, you never know what your path is going to be. Sometimes when you say yes to something that could be something else, like, oh, but I can also stage manage and I can also do this show on the side on YouTube, or I can create my own content on TikTok or something like that. It doesn't mean that you're any less of an artist or that your trajectory is going to be any different. It just makes you a little bit more whole as a person.

[9:33] Mandy Gonzalez: You know, I remember one of my favorite classes at school when I went to CalArts was the poetry class. And I think that, you know, taking those kind of classes, taking a history class, taking things that aren't about just the focus, the Broadway goal, things like that are so important because it makes you a well-rounded person and a better artist, a better actor. And so when people tell me, well, I have a hard time doing other things besides this, I say, well, okay, well, maybe that's not the thing. Maybe that's not the other thing. You can try other things.

[10:10] Mandy Gonzalez: Right. Or, you know, it always blows my mind when people have gone through a four-year program and then they come and they say, well, how do I get an audition? How do I get there? And, you know, when I first came to New York, I went, I didn't have anything. Like I went to Backstage, I worked at Dean and De Luca, like bagging groceries, and I, you know, auditioned through the Backstage newspaper. And I think you have to be willing to hustle, and that hustle doesn't stop when you get a job because that show's gonna close and you're gonna need something else. And yes, you may be going in, you may have an agent, and you may have, you know, all these other things, opportunities that are coming for you, but it's so important to figure out how to create your own platform.

[11:07] Kerry Butler: I say the same exact thing to everyone all the time. We're so crazy.

[11:10] Mandy Gonzalez: You're so wise, that's why we're friends, and also my first thing I did was I did my own cabaret in New York City.

[11:21] Kerry Butler: Where?

[11:21] Mandy Gonzalez: I did the same thing as you.

[11:23] Kerry Butler: Oh gosh, it's still there. One of those little cabaret places like in Chelsea or something.

[11:28] Mandy Gonzalez: Or no, it's Brighton Thomas.

[11:29] Kerry Butler: Oh my gosh, I think I know which one. Is it Sydney Myers?

[11:34] Mandy Gonzalez: I think he ran it.

[11:35] Kerry Butler: Don't Tell Mama!

[11:36] Mandy Gonzalez: Oh my god. Yes, yes.

[11:39] Kerry Butler: That's where I met Seth Rudetsky. I was like, I think I was doing something in I did Dance of the Vampires. And Seth's like, will you come and do an interview about it at Don't Tell Mama's? And I remember going to Don't Tell Mama's and like being like, this place is great.

[11:54] Mandy Gonzalez: But I did so many things for composers that were just trying stuff out at Don't Tell Mamas, and people would be like, "Well, you're not getting paid anything, you're not, why would you do that?" And it's like because I know all of those composers to this day. Yes, yeah, you have to do things for free when you're starting out. Absolutely. Even now I do stuff, you know. Like, come on, if I have the time, I know, I know, I know. If they are, you know, promoting it or something like that, but if it's a reading of a new play or something like that, you need me in the room. And I want to be a part of it. Yeah. And sometimes that's how you get in the room. It is. It is 100%. Thank you for sharing it.

[12:37] Kerry Butler: Yeah, Mandy. That was amazing. Amazing advice. Anytime. We'll be back with Breaking Broadway right after this message.

[12:45] Kerry Butler: So we're doing a series on how you can supplement your income as an artist and performer because a lot of us have a lot of downtime, a lot of dry spells in our career. And my friend Aurore Joly, she has a lot of other jobs, right? Because you're a dancer from France. First off, how you started, how did you make enough money to even be here? Because it's so expensive if you don't have family here.

[13:19] Aurore Joly: Um, I worked as a dancer in France, and then to be able to come to the US and put money on the side, I danced in a lot of clubs. So I was a go-go dancer from like 11 p.m. to like 8 a.m. in the morning. Um, to try to make money. So dance on a lot of podiums with a lot of poles. That's what I did to be able to come to the US. And once I was in the US, it's difficult when you have, I mean, when you have a student visa first, you cannot work on a student visa, so people need to know that. But also, after when you get your visa that allows you to work, you can only work. If I had a visa as a performer, I could only work as a performer or something related to dancing, acting, singing. So I taught a lot of ballet classes.

[14:28] Aurore Joly: Uh, yeah, taught a lot of many generations of dancers. Many of them. And now you started your own business.

[14:37] Aurore Joly: Now I started my own business, which is a holistic fitness and wellness studio in West Orange, New Jersey. Um, I do Pilates, I use the Pilates method, charitonic. Uh, I'm also a holistic health coach. Um, so just looking at the body as a whole, uh, that's what I love doing. And right now, I really wanted to have my own studio because I used to work in studios before, big studios. Um, it was very hard to go to auditions, and now I can make my own schedule, so my clients, they all know if I have an audition that I have to go to. I'm like, I'm not gonna be here that morning because I have an audition, so we're scheduled, and everyone is very gracious, and it works really well that way, and I feel like finally, for the first time in my life, I have a balance.

[15:39] Aurore Joly: Uh, and I can juggle both, but it's still everyone knows it's still very hard when you have. I mean, I teach sometimes more than 30 hours a week. Um, it's exhausting, it's again with my body all day, and then I have to train or go to class, uh, sing more when you've been talking for eight hours in a day, you know, teaching. It's not always easy finding the time to recover too and rest. Um, but we gotta do what you gotta do. We have to be able to pay for my voice lessons. I have to be able to pay for my healers also as well. I need my own healers, uh, my chiropractors, uh, my osteopath every time that I have an injury.

[16:31] Aurore Joly: So it's, I mean, pay for your rent, your mortgage, everything, you know, like, uh, all the actors, we all go through that, and we have those moments when you actually work. Yeah. Uh, and then but actually, those are more of the rare moments when you make enough as an artist to pay the bills. Those are like when I get into a Broadway show, I'm like, oh, I can I don't have to hustle as much. I can relax. I don't have to go on every audition all the time. And yes, it's very, it's very, I mean, it's not easy, it's a stressful life.

[17:10] Aurore Joly: Um, but for me, it's always been like that. And I'm someone also I feel at some point in my life when I was only working in performing, auditioning, it took a toll on me. It took a toll on me. And you know, the rejection. Even though if this is like another passion about that you have, it's not 100% another passion, yeah. And so that is something that you bring to your auditions that's different because you're not as desperate, and also you have other interests, exactly something you can't, your self-worth isn't relying on whether or not you're in a show because you are bringing, I mean, I know you're healing me, like you're really doing something positive in the world outside of performing.

[18:03] Aurore Joly: It's exactly, you completely, uh, I completely agree with everything you said. It's, I feel I have such a value in the world being able to heal people, make them feel better because being an artist and being a performer with all these rejections, and sometimes they'll be yes, of course. Yes, it's so lonely, it's so hard, and then sometimes you're questioning what is my purpose? What is my purpose if I cannot share my heart, my art to other people? And but now having my studio and being able to, or even if you work to another studio, I have a lot of friends who are also just Pilates teachers at other studios, like I did for a long time. That balance is great, it really helps me mentally.

[18:58] Aurore Joly: I'm also not desperate in. I mean, I did a show this year, I did Goodspeed for Cabaret for three months. It's hard too. I left my practice for three months. I told my clients, I was like, but that's the priority at the end of the day, it is. So I told my clients I was like, okay, so it happened, now I have to leave for three months, and you know what? They all understood because I was very clear at the beginning, and I'm like, go do your things. I sent them videos of like, you know, classes for them to do, but they all came back. When I came back, they all came back because I think that made me feel so good, yeah, in a way that I'm like, I'm really bringing a lot to these people, and they feel better because of what we do, and I can also choose my auditions now.

[19:54] Aurore Joly: Honestly, I do not want, I'm older too, I do not want to do certain things, I don't want to go for everything because I'm not right for everything, yeah, and also it's gonna exhaust me at some point, you just burn out. Yes, you just burn out from putting yourself out there, and Broadway especially, is so hard. You have to be able to sing now, musical theater, pop, legit, dance, everything as well from commercial dance to jazz to be so you think you can dance like H to the Wig, you know.

[20:34] Aurore Joly: Um, so having something else is just having another passion is so important, and I think for our mental health as actors, yeah, it's necessary if you do not want to burn out, if you want to be able to pay your rent, and sometimes it's okay also if you don't go to that audition, it was not made for you, and it was not gonna align in the universe, and you haven't missed anything. Um, we have to make choices, and we survive a lot in this business.

[21:11] Aurore Joly: So, if you want to be able to stay afloat and keep going and still be good at your craft, because you need to be able to pay for these dance classes and for these voice lessons and for the acting training. And it's hard. How are you gonna do it if you don't have something else? And it could be actually something that you love.

[21:31] Aurore Joly: Yes, it could be something that you love, and you might have to do a lot of shitty jobs to be able to go back to school until you find it. Yeah, I've done all these shitty jobs, and you know, and they weren't shitty in the way because they enabled me to be able to find my path and keep going with my career. Um, so I'm very grateful for that. Um, I think it's to also not be scared to ask for help from other finding mentors, finding people.

[22:09] Aurore Joly: I'm more than, I mean, if anyone wants to reach out to me, like please do. Let's talk and let's, if I can be of any help for a fellow actor, I want to do that. I want to help you find your path.

[22:21] Kerry Butler: Oh, yeah, yeah, thank you. Tell everybody um what your studio is and how they can find you.

[22:28] Aurore Joly: Yes, you can find me in Western New Jersey. It's a very quick train ride from New York City. Uh, Move Art Studio, yes, Move Art Studio. You can find me on themoveartstudio.com or Move Art Studio on Instagram.

[22:48] Kerry Butler: Thank you so much for sharing with us. You're so making me better.

[22:52] Aurore Joly: Thank you. You're a joy to have as a client, Kerry.

[22:56] Aurore Joly: Um, I'm the one who's very lucky. So thank you so much for trusting me. Really appreciate it.

[22:58] Kerry Butler: Thank you so much for listening. If you would like me to come to your school or theater group and give a master class or a talk back, please reach out at kerrybutlercoach.com. If you like this podcast and want more episodes, please go to bpn.fm slash breaking broadway and subscribe, like, or share. Together, you and I are breaking Broadway.