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[0:36] Kerry Butler: I am your host, Miss Kerry Butler. Together you and I are breaking Broadway.

[0:54] Kerry Butler: Hello, welcome back to Breaking Broadway. I have my dear friend with me. We were in Hairspray together. She won the Tony Award. I did not. Marissa Jaret Winokur. She's also been on over a hundred TV shows, including like Curb Your Enthusiasm. Right now, you can see her on What We Do in the Shadows. She also won Big Brother and was on Dancing with the Stars, has such an eclectic career. Welcome to the show, Marissa.

[1:29] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I think that's the perfect way to say my career. It is the most eclectic career ever. That is actually, I should write that in my bio. Marissa Jaret Winokur has the most eclectic career. And I actually, when I was counting, I have to say I have now definitely done over a hundred TV episodes because I wasn't even counting when I would do like, I think I did like a hundred episodes of The Talk alone. I wasn't even talking, like when Big Brother was on, it was on every day for like three weeks or Dancing with the Stars. I only counted like Dancing with the Stars. So my eclecticness is like, I think it's like over 200, 300 episodes. It's not, that's crazy.

[2:11] Marissa Jaret Winokur: The funniest part is that, you know, so in case you don't know, I also am doing a show with Marissa and Laura Bell Bundy, who will be joining us later. We created the show, but so now I travel a lot with Marissa. And the funniest thing is that she gets noticed the most for Big Brother. It's like, no, hello, I won a Tony Award, but no, everyone recognizes her for Big Brother.

[2:34] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I actually, I always am like, I used to obviously be Hairspray, Hairspray, Hairspray. And then Big Brother, Dancing with the Stars was the one that like, I couldn't go to Costco for like just that, just honestly that like six month period. Like, you know, after that, nobody cares. They're on to the next one. But for like six months, it was like everybody's grandma, me, and like all at Costco. And I was like, oh, this is crazy because it was the first reality show I did where people really got to know me or like what I let them know of me. But yeah, Big Brother has definitely changed. It's just a different fan base, I think. And also I think the fan bases of the Big Brother fan base, like they're the most open to be like proud of their fan base.

Like they love Big Brother and they want to talk to me about Big Brother. But yeah, I'm sometimes like, you know, I do other things. Me and my other friend, we always go, we do other things, but I like do everything, obviously. Right.

[3:25] Kerry Butler: Oh my gosh. I say no to no job. Speaking of other things. So this podcast is, you know, for young actors starting out. And when did you know that you wanted to go into theater? Like, did you always perform as a kid?

[3:39] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah, I like knew I have distinct memories when I was like six and seven, definitely by eight. I was sitting in my bedroom with my record player because I'm old, you guys. And I had my record player and I would just play albums on a loop. And I just wanted to be Ethel Merman. I would sing along. My dad would get me records from tag sales because I didn't have a lot of money. And he would go to tag sales and pick up all the Broadway albums, like the records. And I would just listen to them on a loop. So like I was really young listening to Ethel Merman screaming in my room. And I knew I just wanted to do musical theater. I knew I wanted to be on Broadway. That was the goal.

[4:17] Kerry Butler: What was the first show that you saw?

[4:19] Marissa Jaret Winokur: The first show I saw was Evita with Patti LuPone.

[4:23] Kerry Butler: I saw that too!

[4:24] Marissa Jaret Winokur: You saw it too?

[4:25] Kerry Butler: Yes.

[4:26] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Do you remember, like the memory I have is them like walking down the aisle with the casket in the beginning. And I have like such a distinct memory of being like in the theater. And it was so like, it felt so immersive when you're little. You know what I mean? It was probably just the cast members walking down the aisle. But to me, it was everything.

[4:45] Kerry Butler: What was your first show that you saw?

[4:48] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Annie.

[4:49] Kerry Butler: Yeah, Annie. So when did you start getting to perform? Like did you get to do community theater?

[4:56] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yes, I did community theater. I did like, but I would, here's the thing, which I always tell young people. Not only did I do community theater, I did it, but I was like girl number four. I was never cast in anything. Like in my town, we had, it was a little theater, but all the older people were the stars. So like the young kids, like I was the newscaster in Merrily We Roll Along. You know what I mean? Like I remember I did Merrily Carry. And I'm like, wow, that's big for the community theater. We were, we were no joke. But I mean, it was like, yeah, but I remember standing there. I was probably in like seventh or eighth grade. And it was the last show, the last night, you know, we'd done it the whole summer rehearsed, you know.

And I remember standing there in the last number. And I just started crying because I, for the first time, understood the show. I realized, oh my God, this is where they started. But it took me the whole production, the whole show. And you know me so well that like that totally tracks, right? I'm just, you know what I'm thinking about.

[6:04] Kerry Butler: Everything, I know.

[6:05] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Carrie, I will say to all, everybody that listens to this, Carrie gets to witness me. I think my, me as an actress is honestly me. It's me, like learning. I get on stage and I, and I don't think about anything. I just am the character. So like a lot of times I miss a lot of things because I'm just thinking as the character or thinking. And like if I have to think about words, I don't know what I'm saying. So like Carrie has witnessed me on stage completely staring, going completely in the white room, going completely blank, not knowing where I am. And she just stares at Carrie. I don't know how I'm going to get through this interview. But you know. So imagine little, like 10-year-old Marissa not even understanding the whole plot. I've done the show for two months. And then realizing this is where Mary Levy Royal Long, this is where they all began. This is so sad.

[6:59] Kerry Butler: Yeah. So you've always been like that, Carrie. So you did the, you did the community theater. And then, and I did you go, did you go to college for theater?

[7:07] Marissa Jaret Winokur: So I did community theater and I had this wonderful teacher. And I always want to talk about him because he's my favorite human. And he just passed away. But Mr. Walter and he was, when I was in eighth, seventh grade, I was in like music appreciation. So like I, no one had like figured out that I was like, I was just like, look at me. I need attention. Right. It was more like that. Like, I want to be in theater because I want attention. But then he was like, who's that girl singing? Who's that? And he's like, and he made everyone sing by themselves. And he's like, you, you sing louder. Wait, do that again. And then he was like, you got to come be in the play. And I was like, okay. And then he like, literally, I'm telling you, this man changed my life.

Because he like made, he was the first person that like gave me parts and shows. Like gave, like he wrote a whole show. My seat, my like last year in middle school for eighth grade. And I was the star of the show. And he was like, and then he came and did all the high school shows too. Because he was like so into theater. And like, again, though, I wasn't always the star. But like, he was like, he knew that that's what I was meant to do. And he like brought it out in me. Like really supported me. So I did the high school shows. I did the middle school shows.

[8:12] Kerry Butler: Did he ever see you on Broadway?

[8:15] Marissa Jaret Winokur: He came to our opening. I invited him and his wife to our opening of Hairspray. Yeah. I don't know if he's, he saw me in Grease. Because I remember a really funny incident with Brooke Shields' mom and him that I will not tell here. But it was, and she knows it too. So it's not any secret. But I do remember a fun incident. Like that, that was a fun moment. But I always tell people like, I didn't do, I didn't have like your childhood. I didn't have Laura Bell's childhood. My parents basically were like, you can be an actress when you graduate high school. You know, so that's basically what I did.

[8:50] Marissa Jaret Winokur: And sorry, your question was, did I go to college? I did. I went to AMDA in New York City. Because I got into really good schools. Not for my academics, as we would all suspect. But my dad said, you can't go to a four-year college. You will be miserable doing math and science. He's like, because all the colleges, like Carnegie Mellon, you have to still do classes, right? So my dad, and I cry. I was like, I want to go to college. I want the experience. And my dad was like, you just want to do theater. Like go to a trade school. And I was so mad at him. But I was doing Grease by, I would have only been in my sophomore year. I was in Grease by the time I was 20. So he was right. He was totally right. And this is what I tell young students all the time. Because they're always like, should I go to college? I'm like, it's totally personal. I loved my experience. But you probably didn't even need college.

[9:48] Kerry Butler: And you did that. And then you got, did you even finish it? Because you got in Grease so well.

[9:52] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I did, yeah. I did finish it. Because they do, their program is like a two-year musical theater program. And you can do like two years at a, there's a lot of colleges that help you get your BFA. If you do two years at AMDA. And then you can do two years at like the new school. Or there were places, so you could get that degree if that was important to you. I started, I graduated high school. I started two days later. So I started in the summer. I did it like in 18 months. You know me. I like, when I'm in, I'm in. Like I did it fast. I did it as fast as you possibly, I didn't take any breaks. I didn't take any holidays. I did my whole thing. And then I did one community theater. I did at, I did Nonsense at Shawnee Playhouse. Which by the way, you, me, and Laura would be really good in Nonsense.

[10:45] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I do, I got my first Broadway show singing a song from Nonsense.

[10:50] Kerry Butler: Which song?

[10:51] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I Just Want to Be a Star.

[10:53] Kerry Butler: Yeah.

[10:54] Marissa Jaret Winokur: That was my go-to song.

[10:55] Kerry Butler: Yeah, that's, that's, I was.

[10:58] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I don't remember what part I was. I feel like, I don't think I sang that song. I didn't. But, but I did one year of, I did one summer stock. And then I had my Grease audition. And then I got Grease. But, so.

[11:11] Kerry Butler: Tell everyone, tell everyone about your wide book of musical theater songs.

[11:17] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Well, for, for Carrie, let's hear about your wide book of musical theater songs.

[11:24] Kerry Butler: Oh, okay. Well, I have like 200 songs probably. Everything. So I am ready for any audition that could come up. I have, you know, country western, ballad, country up-tempo, everything. I have one song. I sang, I sang it when, I sang Where the Boys Are for my high school audition for Grease. Because we did Grease in high school, my senior year. And I learned Where the Boys Are. It's like, where the boys are, someone waits for me. Super simple song. And then I sang it for my Grease audition for Broadway. And then I sang it for my Hairspray audition for Broadway.

[12:08] Marissa Jaret Winokur: There you go. That's your, that's your book.

[12:10] Kerry Butler: I have, my book is, my, this is, here's my book. One piece of paper.

[12:18] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I don't even think it's like four chords. It's like, it's like, it's 16. I don't even have a song! I don't even have a song! Kerry, Kerry, see, that's why, Kerry, I love you. Because I love, I love, I, what's the word, juxtaposed? It was that, what's the, yeah, it's like, Kerry, you and I are literally like the, everything is in between us. There's, you have a billion Broadway shows, you went from Broadway show to Broadway show, like I've watched you like the last, I mean, first of all, hi, you did three before we did Hairspray, but like, watched your career throughout the years and always being like, like I say jealous, but not in a like, meanful jealous, like, like an envious jealous. Do you know what I mean?

There's two different, like, I was never like, oh, Kerry's doing another Broadway show. I was like, holy shit, look at her. She's just doing it. Like, it's so impressive to me, like, the amount of work you've done on Broadway is like, it's insane, you know? So I think like, there's everything in between, right? Like, I like, I also think like same for you, because you just go from TV show to TV show, which is so impressive. And that's a totally different skill set to have. And I always wanted to do more TV shows. So it's like, you know, the grass, the grass is always greener on the other side. But why don't you tell people about like, like that difference between doing theater and how you learned it and how you broke into TV and film?

[14:01] Kerry Butler: Well, here's the thing. And like, even when, when we start talking about doing our show together, like I, after doing Hairspray, and I don't talk about this a lot. I don't know if I've ever actually talked about it, but I basically, when I was done with Hairspray, I left Hairspray and I went right to Hollywood. Like I had a, I had a deal with ABC. We were developing a TV show. They made a deal with me two days after we opened, they wanted me to do the show, like do a TV show at the same time as doing Hairspray. And I was like, no, Hairspray, I can only do Hairspray. I can't do more things than one. I was smart enough to know I have one shot to do this show right, right? This was my one show, like this was the show.

So I said, no, but you can have me exactly one year from when we close or when I, from when I opened. So I went right, I flew right to Hollywood and moved on. But when I left Hairspray, it was so, the idea was so daunting to ever do another show again. Like Hairspray was so hard and it was like all my sweat, all my tears, all of me. I had no friends. I mean, you know, you worked with me, like I was, she was a nun. I did not, I didn't leave my apartment. I didn't, when we were out of town, she stayed in a different hotel just so she wouldn't be tempted to party with us.

[15:11] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah. I like, and I, yeah. And Hairspray, that group, you guys partied. And I like, I was very like antisocial, but not because I like didn't want to, I had to like literally separate myself. I didn't use my phone. So the idea of ever doing that again was like, became overwhelming. So I was lucky and got, I was right into TV, right into film. And that doesn't, not to say it's easier.

[15:39] Kerry Butler: So you hadn't really done it before, you hadn't really done it before Hairspray. It was really just Hairspray, everybody wanted you. So then you were getting on TV and stuff.

[15:42] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Well, no, actually I, after I did Grease, I did Grease for four years on Broadway. And then, and in 1998, I left Grease, I moved to LA and I was due, that's when I did Scary Movie. That's when I did American Beauty. That's when, I mean like the reason I even got into Hairspray was because the producer of American Beauty mentioned me to Rob Marshall. So that's how I was the first person to audition for the show. But like, I, and I was doing TV show and TV show because I was like, honestly, I was like, the only chubby girl in Los Angeles. And now it feels so crazy because there's like, now everybody gets to be anything. But in, you know, 30 years ago, you couldn't like, it was like me or the girl with glasses.

It would have been like a funny girl, but her funniness was that she wore big shoes and glasses. And I was just like, I'm just going to say the lines and I'm cute, chubby Marissa, you know? So I, so when I was going to do Hairspray, most of my representation at the time told me not to do it because they were like, you're doing so well here and you're making so much money. They're like, don't go do Hairspray. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Like Broadway's the dream. Broadway's the goal. This was just because I was bored and there were no parts for me after Grease, right? But musicals are so much harder for me. Like you can't just half-ass it, right? So I think that's why I've always watched you and being like, oh my God.

And she has kids and she has a family and she's still doing it. Like, I don't understand how, because like, especially when I had a child, I was like, never. Like I showed up, I worked on a set last year. I was doing, so help me Todd. I had like, honestly, I had like 103 fever. I was on steroids. My neck was swollen. I was beet red, but I was able to still show up and shoot, right? So like TV and film, it's stressful because you're like stressed, but it's easy because you can, you can kind of show up even if you don't feel good, you can act around it. Like I'm not worried about singing, you know, you can kind of still have a life, you know, like, so that for me, it was very daunting to ever go back into New York.

And, and I was asked very early after Hairspray, people were like, come do this show, come do that show. Can you replace this person? This person's bad. Can you jump in? And I kept saying, no, no, no. And then about 10 years later, they stopped asking.

[18:04] Kerry Butler: Do you feel like there's a difference between film acting and acting for the stage?

[18:10] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yes. Yes. And like, yes, I think it is very different. Like I definitely, my intents are the same. My energy is the same. My volume is lower. My attitude is lower. It's all like much more here, but you can't, but you can't around her face. So it's like her eyes.

[18:29] Kerry Butler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. It's like, it's like right here, meaning like everything is so close. So yeah, so I've had a lot of directors be like, okay, 75% less, but like, I can take that note easily and I'm not offended. But I think that what a lot of actors forget when they go from, from stage to TV, like when they audition and they're like not getting it or something, you can't lose your energy and your drive and your, your like, what's like your inner engine has to still show your eyes still have to tell a story. And I think a lot of people that are on stage forget that it's the same story. It's the same intention. It's just doing more. Honestly, it's doing more with your eyes, less with your hands. You know what I mean? Like more with your, more with your spirit and less with your body. I don't know if that makes any sense. You know?

[19:11] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah. Yeah. Did you, did you do training for that or did you just know it like as you learned as you went along?

[19:22] Kerry Butler: I learned as I went along. I was, I, but I'm also like, I mean, I, I, my first real movie when I really lucked out on like, I, again, remember I had no interest in doing TV or film. I just fell in. Like I literally just locked into that one. Like I went to Hollywood literally for Lucy Lawless's wedding in, in, it was March of, of 98. Lucy Lawless was getting married, getting married. And I was like, Oh my God, I want to come. So I went to her wedding. I'd never been to the West coast. And I was like, I'm going to take a month and be in Los Angeles. How fun. So I lied to my agents, my New York agents. And I was like, is there an LA agent? Cause I think I might want to stay here. I had no ambition on staying.

I just wanted to like go on auditions. I was bored. Right. So, and then I booked all this stuff. So then my brother went to my New York apartment and mailed me all my things. Cause I was like, I have to stay. But my very, very first time ever being on a set was teaching Mrs. Tingle. And it was, and it was, um, Helen Mirren was the teacher and I was lucky enough to be cast as literally just like girl. Number one, I had one line, but because I was established in the classroom scene, I had to be there for three weeks and I just sat on set and I watched her for three weeks. And I just watched and watched and I didn't ever go to my trailer. I didn't ever sit alone. And I just sat on set and I was like, Oh, okay.

That's what they mean by hitting your mark that I just watched. And I like took it all in and I was like, so young also, but also we didn't have cell phones. So there was really nothing else to do, but like, thankfully, you know, but I, I watched Helen Mirren and I was like, okay, I get what she's doing. Like it was such a, like a masterclass. And I got to watch her for so long that it really sunk in.

[21:03] Marissa Jaret Winokur: That is such a great lesson for everyone listening, just, wherever you are, even if you're in community theater, just, and you see somebody who's good or bad, just watch them and learn from them, like learn what not to do or what to do. And even if you're an extra on a film set, you can just learn.

[21:19] Kerry Butler: Yeah. I think that I would tell that to everybody. Like you, cause you'll see the things that you really don't like really fast. And you're like, Ooh, I don't want to ever do that. And that's same for, you know, for everything. Like, like, you know, like you could be at like a sound check and someone like screams and is yelling at the sound guy. And you're like, Ooh, I don't want to ever yell or scream at the sound guy because that's scary. And I don't want him to like, you know, like you learn how people act, you'll learn good stuff and you'll see the stuff that you're like, Ooh, maybe I don't want to do that. I think that that's the most, I think literally just being a fly on the wall at some of these places is so important.

[21:57] Marissa Jaret Winokur: What advice would you give to your younger self?

[22:01] Kerry Butler: Oh my gosh, Carrie. I mean, like, here's the thing with me and my younger self, my young. It's funny, I want my younger self to talk to my older self.

[22:10] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah, my like, younger self, like, it'll make me cry. Like, literally, I'm choked up like my, my younger self was so fearless and brave. And like, she just like, literally, I was like, I mean, it sounds so much like Tracy, but like, I think why I loved Tracy turned out so much was like, she really wanted to like change the world. And like, and she was so confident and so proud. And so didn't care what anyone thinks. And I think as we get, I got older, I did care what people think I was less proud, I was less ambitious. And, and I say this, and you know this, but like being with you and Laura again has really brought that back out in me. So it makes me like, like, it's been it's been a long journey to get to where I am where I want to go on stage again.

So like, I don't know my younger self, she was she was the shit, man. My younger self was really confident. And now I wish my younger self could be like, relax, it's okay, everything's gonna be okay. Like, it's interesting. I kind of would want to go the other way.

[23:11] Marissa Jaret Winokur: And do you have any advice for people starting out like any things that you learned along the way or even any like, oh, this is a great school to go to or where you can meet casting directors, you know, any any tips like that?

[23:28] Kerry Butler: Well, I think my biggest thing is and you can tell by my eclectic career is that like, do everything like do all the jobs do everything. There's nothing like there's nothing that isn't worth doing. Do every student film meet all the kids that are your age doing student film. My goddaughter I was like she wasn't doing student films. And I was like, go do the student films. That's how you're going to meet your generation of filmmakers, right? So like, even like the silliest little part, you're going to be on a set, the only way you can get experience is actually being there. Absolutely go to school. But there's life is school. So like, if school isn't your thing, get on these sets, maybe be like, say yes to everything.

I'm meeting casting directors meeting people is being in the show is being in the press, like being at the places, you know, you can't like, you just that's where you meet everybody is like, is working. And I know it's so hard to say working, but like, it like put yourself out there for, for being able to, you know, meet other people. But I mean,

[24:37] Marissa Jaret Winokur: School is great. You meet people there, but go to the school that's going to succeed for you. And if you're not loving it, I loved musical theater so much. And there were some classes that I absolutely hated in my school. And I pushed through those too, you know, so like, commit to something and follow through and then just keep committing and following through, you know, and, and just keep pushing and showing up. I think that's the thing showing up and, and oh my gosh, Kerry knows this about me and always being on time and always being ready to work. Don't show up to rehearsal. Even if it's a dance class, be there with your dance shoes on 10 minutes early, ready to go, not putting your shoes on as the teacher walks in. Like those things matter. And those teachers will remember you too.

[25:23] Kerry Butler: Yes. Yeah. That's so important. Having like a good, strong work ethic. I really want everyone to hear your Hairspray story, Hairspray audition story.

[25:34] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Okay. I, as I said before, the, uh, the guy from a producer on, uh, Dreamworks, like gave Robbie Marshall my, my information. And then I went and met Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman. I went to their house in Los Angeles. I was the very first person to meet them. I didn't know who they were because I also, as Kerry will know, I don't know who anybody is. I don't look up anything. I'm like sometimes ill-prepared in that sense. Um, so Mark and Scott wrote the music and lyrics for Hairspray. So they were the ones I walked into their house and I walked up the stairs and I see like South Park, like they wrote the music for South Park. I was like sleeveless in Seattle. Wait, what's that? Like, Oh my God, these people.

So I like walked in and they always say that because they have this long set of stairs, right? To get to their house. And I walked up the stairs. They said my hair showed up before I did because they can see me popping in. So I audition in their house. I sang the, the hit wonder where the boys are. And then they asked if I had anything else. And I said, no. And so then they took it up a couple of keys. Like they were like, well, then we'll play with the keys and we'll change. And then they made the speed faster. I had one song. Um, and it worked. And then I, and I had the best day there with them. And then I did the first reading, which was only act one. And during that they were like, well, we're still auditioning for Tracy.

Don't like, this isn't your job yet. So then I got a voice teacher, Eric Vitro immediately because I was like, I have to get my voice in shape for this show. And I've got to figure out how to keep this job. And so I did four readings of it and the whole time they were auditioning for Tracy Turnblad like the entire time. And I still kept, I'm Nope. It's mine. But I, I didn't, I didn't one time, like you see a flyer or something in the studio. It was like, I like, I like Pearl studios or wherever we were rehearsing. It literally had a flyer. Like, are you the next Tracy Turnblad? Are you Tracy? Like, like nation search for Tracy Turnblad. I'm like, I'm right here. I'm literally right here. Yeah.

But, but I looked back on that, Carrie, and I realized it kept me so focused and humble because I never, it was never my job. So I had to get it each time. So I never, I didn't show up like I was ready. I knew my song. I probably knew my words better than, than I do now. But like, you know what I mean? Like I, and so I look back on that and think, I'm, I'm glad it went the way it did because it made me work and prepare. Like I was ready to do that show when we started because I had been working for two years vocally to get ready for like emotionally to get ready. Like I knew that part. It was never like, it was a slow burn. Nothing went fast with that job. So.

[28:30] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Marissa's husband, Judah works in TV. He's a super talented head writer of Bump, Bupkis, right? And tons of other shows. So Marissa gets to watch a lot of self-tapes. Do you have any self-tape pointers?

[28:44] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Guys, I watch so many self-tapes. I do have so many self-tape pointers. So, okay. So my husband, yeah, he's a, he creates TV shows, which is awesome. But just so you know, I met him before I told him to get a computer. I was like, you want to be a writer? Get a computer. We've been together for 25 years. So, so I like to say that so that everybody knows I didn't just meet him and I'm like, I'm going to marry that show runner. I didn't, I married an unemployed executive. Okay. So, but, so Judah is always getting self-tapes. So the best advice. So a lot of times with self-tapes, somebody literally, he, someone says two words, you guys, and he presses next. Like they didn't even say half of, they didn't say anything, but he knows they don't, he, he, they don't look like what he wants.

So, so when you're doing your self-tape, one, I will say, know the first page. The first page is all that's going to really matter. Obviously, if they like you, the second and third page are going to matter as well. But the first page is the part that you have to know and commit, make a commitment, do the first page, memorize that. If you're going to memorize anything, memorize that first page. But also when you're doing self-tapes, know, do it, send it, move on because it might have nothing. It has nothing to do with you. It has all to do with what they're looking for. Especially like, especially if it's a guest star or a co-star, it literally is like, oh, well, you look like someone who's already in the cast, move on.

Or like, no, we wanted, oh, it could go, it could be even like, oh my God, you look like my sister. And I don't want to cast someone that looks like my sister. Or sometimes you'll be auditioning for real, like for the part of someone who's real. And it's like, like in Bupkis, there were so many people that were really Pete Davidson's family members. So they were cast to be sort of like those family members. And it like, didn't matter how good someone's audition was because they didn't resemble or look like, or have the vibe of somebody's family. So my number one advice is your first page, know it, but also like, don't sweat it and just move on because people go by them so fast, so fast it's heartbreaking.

But also when you're right, you're right. Like it's hard, like once you're right for the part, it's hard to not be considered for it if you like pass all the other tests. So if your first page is good, you're good.

[31:11] Kerry Butler: Oh, interesting. So really, really focused on that first page.

[31:15] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Really, really focused on that first page. Yeah.

[31:18] Kerry Butler: Oh, that's a good, good point there.

[31:20] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Because a lot of times we would watch it and be like, oh, I really like her. And then you're like, oh, she kind of lost. But you're like, oh, let's see her do something again. Like that, you know, a lot of times the casting will have you do it again or like give notes or whatever, but whatever that is, like, like, I mean, like, there's been people who are like, this is the funniest, this is by far the funniest take by far the best actress. They're not even getting a callback, like, but like, by far the funniest, like by far the best. And they're just like, or like, Judah's like, this is my favorite person. And then two other executives like already crossed them out. You know, it's like, there's so much to like, who has the most power, whose person is going to get picked?

[32:02] Kerry Butler: Yeah, that's a really, really good.

[32:04] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah, we kept we spent the whole time trying to find a part that was because my goddaughter has needs like one more job to become sag. And you know what I mean? To be like, sag working, but like, we'd already used all the non sag people on the show. So like, even that, like, it's so like, hit her. I mean, like, there, we were as much nepotism as possibly could have happened. And it still didn't happen. Do you know what I mean? So like, you never know.

[32:32] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Oh my god, you guys.

[32:35] Kerry Butler: She's here. I'm here. She made it Laura Bell Bundy, everybody.

[32:41] Marissa Jaret Winokur: From Legally Blonde fame and hairspray and lots of TV shows. Welcome back.

[32:49] Kerry Butler: Okay, so I've just been talking to Marissa and I was just about to announce our exciting, exciting news. Our show that we created mama I'm a big girl now is coming to

[33:04] Marissa Jaret Winokur: I always tell my students and you guys out like create your own work and we did it. Um, Marissa had been manifesting it. Why don't you talk about that? Morris?

[33:14] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Yeah, bippity boppity boo girl. I love it. Laura says I'm I'm bippity boppity booping all over town. I honestly when we came up with this show and well you when you guys called me and then a year later when I remembered that you called me and we and then I created the show but I didn't because they already had created it in their heads. Which makes me so happy. I said, we should do this show like at New World stages. We should just be at like New World stages. And everyone's like, okay, okay, Ruth. And I'm like, I don't know you guys. I think that's a really good place to do it. It'll be fun. We'll be in New York. We can all drive there. Okay, whatever is a back me up. You guys didn't believe that that's what could happen.

[33:59] Kerry Butler: Yeah, I backing you up. I basically rolled my eyes when you said that. I said, you know, we'll do like one show in the city. We'll like do the Hayes or something. I didn't. I didn't think like, it's gonna be, you know, a run and a sit down. So yeah, we should tell everybody. We're so good. Yes. So that so I just kept saying that's the manifesting. I was just like, that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. And then da da da, what are we doing? We're doing New World stages for six weeks. Thanks. Get your tickets starting November starting November. Our opening is November 16. We got some previews between that before that. Our opening is November 13. I want Oh God, did I just manifest we're gonna have like a delay? No, I didn't. I just said it wrong. November 13. But we open for previews November 2, because you know, we got to figure listen, the thing that I love about us.

[35:07] Marissa Jaret Winokur: If I could just say so myself, yeah. Okay. Um, is that this show has been ever evolving? Yes. And we have tightened it and made it better and adding things. And, and that's what's exciting about it is that anybody who has ever seen this show on the road, not nobody's ever seen the same show. No. And so it's exciting, because even in previous, we're going to be figuring things out and making things cool. So, you know, if you come in previous, you might see a different show that you do on closing night. And I think that's the fun part, like my favorite part about this show and why like, it's been so much fun. I mean, let alone just being with two amazing, talented, inspirational women like have inspired me to want to come back to New York has inspired me to want to be fearless again, like my young self and be on stage and just have fun and sing like, it doesn't like just sing like nobody's listening.

I know that sounds so cheesy, but it's like saying like, it's the last time you're gonna sing because I feel like being with both of you has made have has really made me just excited about working in theater again. And I just haven't been and it's heartbreaking that like my like, inner child has kind of been stifled all these years, you know, but it is true, Laura, we, we keep changing it depending on like the venue, some venues are like, we need 45 minutes, we need 60 minutes, we want two and a half hours. So we're just like, we got it, no problem. And then we show up in the hotel. And we buzz like little bees. And we come up with a show because that's what we're together and figure it out.

And it's been so like Judy Garland and Andy, you know, like old, a very old reference, like putting on a show in our backyard, because it's just being with your best friends and performing. And it's been so much fun. And I think that that's what comes off on stage. You see us genuinely, like Laura can't get through a song of Carrie's without crying. I find it horribly annoying at this point, but it keeps happening.

[36:56] Kerry Butler: My friends and castmates, Laura Bell Bundy and Marissa Jaret Winokur join me for a special announcement about our show Mama, I'm a Big Girl Now! We also talk about Marissa's career journey, audition songs, and memories from Hairspray.

[37:26] Marissa Jaret Winokur: It's literally got to the point where we're going, "Hey guys, for the next few hours, I have a couple of doctor appointments and I won't be available to respond." I mean, literally, I said yesterday, "I'm so sorry for the next two hours, I'm going to be—what did I say?—radio silent," and then I continue to text and like while my radio silence, I was like, "Oh my God, still going on with you guys," because I had to answer some questions. I'm like, "I'm in a Zoom and I've got to get this one thing out before I forget." I've never—I want your listeners, Kerry, and everybody on this podcast to know I've never loved working with any two people more than I've loved working with you two. It isn't like I feel like it's brought my joy back.

You've literally—it's like my—this will be a core memory for me forever, this experience with you guys. I don't know what's going to happen next, but like this moment in time has given me back something that I didn't know was lost until I realized I had found it again. And so I love you both so much, and I'm so excited to continue on with this with you guys.

[39:06] Laura Bell Bundy: What are you talking about? What are you talking about the next manifestation of this?

[39:16] Marissa Jaret Winokur: Oh, no, no, it's welcome to our 60s.

[39:46] Laura Bell Bundy: In 20—year 15. Well, it's going to be 17 years for me, but—

[40:16] Marissa Jaret Winokur: A little big tears from her eyes. I think that is a great place to stop. And I hope that everyone comes to see our show, Mama, I'm a Big Girl Now, at New World Stages. Tickets are on sale by the time this podcast comes out. And it's just been such an incredible experience for the three of us to feel this creative, and I encourage you listeners to do it. It doesn't matter what scale it's at. Find your friends and just create art with them. Just put on a show in your backyard, and you never know what is going to happen. They end up at New World Stages.

[41:36] Kerry Butler: I mean, here is the thing that's so great about that, Kerry, is we all start doing this thing because we love to play pretend. And when you play pretend with your friends at a professional level, wild and amazing, joyful things can happen. You know, so keep playing, guys. Just get in that playpen and play with your friends. We'll see you at the theater, everybody.

[42:36] Kerry Butler: Thank you so much for listening. If you would like me to come to your school or theater group and give a master class or a talk back, please reach out at kerrybutlercoach.com. If you like this podcast, subscribe and leave a rating, and in the comments, let me know what topics you want me to cover. You're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network.