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[0:05] Jan Svendsen: Welcome to the Broadway Gives Back Podcast.

[0:07] Jan Svendsen: I'm your host, Jan Svendsen.

[0:10] Jan Svendsen: This podcast spotlights Broadway actors, shows, and organizations in their pursuit of social impact and philanthropy.

[0:17] Jan Svendsen: Join us as some of the brightest lights on Broadway share their stories about their favorite charities and how they got involved and the people and the causes who benefited from these philanthropic efforts.

[0:34] Jan Svendsen: Doing good and doing it well requires out-of-the-box thinking.

[0:38] Jan Svendsen: And few people demonstrate that type of thinking more than today's guest.

[0:42] Jan Svendsen: As the president of Propper Daley, Greg Propper spends his days helping brands, nonprofits, and philanthropists accelerate positive change in the world.

[0:52] Jan Svendsen: He's worked with some of the biggest names in film, television, music, and Broadway—Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga, John Legend, Shawn Mendes, Kerry Washington, Camila Cabello, and so many more.

[1:04] Jan Svendsen: As a social impact innovator, Greg has worked at the intersection of public policy, nonprofit leadership, philanthropy, and entertainment for over 25 years.

[1:13] Jan Svendsen: I'm so thrilled to have him here today. Greg, my friend, welcome to the Broadway Gives Back Podcast.

[1:18] Greg Propper: My goodness.

[1:30] Greg Propper: Well, I'm gonna call you the Godfather then. I mean, we've been buddies for a while.

[1:35] Greg Propper: And I'm so in awe of your brilliance and all the behind-the-scenes work you do, and I really wanted to showcase that to people today.

[1:43] Greg Propper: But before we talk about philanthropy and what you've been up to, because I do want to hear, I thought we could play a little game.

[1:51] Jan Svendsen: I'm going to ask you some rapid-fire questions, and you just answer with the first thing that comes to your mind.

[1:56] Jan Svendsen: Uh, what's your guilty pleasure?

[1:59] Greg Propper: Um, gummy bears.

[2:01] Jan Svendsen: Gummy bears. What job would you be terrible at?

[2:04] Greg Propper: Anything related to engineering?

[2:07] Greg Propper: Um, like a space, uh, an astronaut.

[2:11] Jan Svendsen: Okay. Um, if you had to choose three adjectives that describe you, what would you choose?

[2:16] Greg Propper: Oh my goodness.

[2:18] Greg Propper: Empath or empathetic. Is that an adjective?

[2:21] Greg Propper: Yes, empathetic. Um, introverted.

[2:26] Greg Propper: And then I'm gonna I'm gonna do it, one that has a dash in the middle. I'm gonna say I'm a pragmatic idealist.

[2:32] Jan Svendsen: What do you most give a damn about?

[2:35] Greg Propper: I wish I could think of something more nuanced than this, but I would say fairness in general. Justice would be another way to say it, but I would say fairness.

[2:46] Jan Svendsen: What is a dream that you've yet to achieve?

[2:49] Greg Propper: Well, I really would like to be the chief of staff to a um either a governor or perhaps even the president of the United States one day.

[2:59] Jan Svendsen: Well, let's consider this your job interview.

[3:01] Greg Propper: Oh no, I wish I hadn't said that.

[3:04] Jan Svendsen: Yes. Um, what is something you say you're always gonna do, but you know that you never will?

[3:10] Greg Propper: Exercise five days a week.

[3:13] Jan Svendsen: Um, and what is one of the things in your life that you're most proud of?

[3:17] Greg Propper: Um, I mean, honestly, and I know we're gonna talk more about this, but um I think starting and growing this business because I had no idea what it took to do this.

[3:31] Greg Propper: Um and I now looking back on it, realize how hard it is to grow. This is not a rapid-fire answer, but how to grow a professional services business and how hard it is to get over sort of that initial hump.

[3:47] Greg Propper: And so had I known then what I know now, I think I would have been more intimidated. But looking back on it, I'm proud of the work my entire team has done.

[3:57] Jan Svendsen: That's awesome. What are you most grateful for today?

[4:02] Greg Propper: Well probably my husband because I think as a young person um A, I didn't know that I would ever come out of the closet, uh, even though as I told you earlier, I thought we were filming this or recording this podcast in the closet.

[4:17] Greg Propper: So I almost went back in for you but came out of the closet got married. And it's just an incredible I just never honestly imagined I could be in an open loving relationship where there was unconditional love.

[4:31] Greg Propper: And so I'm really grateful for that. And what was the last random act of kindness that you performed for someone else?

[4:38] Greg Propper: Oh my goodness. We had a major um major rainstorm in LA uh which doesn't happen often and we were driving down the street and there was a um homeless woman who was on a like at a uh bus stop and literally there was a I think the store must have been stuffed stopped up and so the water was rising and she literally could not get out of the off of this bench.

[5:07] Greg Propper: And so we pulled over the car and just are you okay and I was expecting her to say yes and she said no and we had to literally pull over and help her.

[5:17] Greg Propper: She had built this encampment, which you're seeing sadly more and more in Los Angeles all over the place, but couldn't figure out how to get all of the things she had amassed in the spot out of that predicament.

[5:28] Greg Propper: And so we helped her, helped her relocate. And yeah.

[5:31] Jan Svendsen: Okay, last question. Favorite Broadway show.

[5:34] Greg Propper: Oh no. That's so hard because I I, as a um, I I will say this.

[5:44] Greg Propper: The one that had I think the most impact on me because I saw it as a young person, um, was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, and it just blew me away.

[5:53] Greg Propper: Um, there are probably some I've seen more recently that I might like more, but that one had a real impact on me.

[5:59] Greg Propper: And you know what I realized, Jan, not to take us off track, but I was thinking because I don't, you said in the introduction that we work with folks who are in film, television, but also Broadway.

[6:11] Greg Propper: And I was when you said that, I was thinking to myself, who is that? And then I realized that actually some of our most sort of um justice-minded clients, um, like John Legend and Kerry Washington and Bradley, who you mentioned, all have done Broadway.

[6:29] Greg Propper: And I don't really, I hadn't traditionally thought of them as Broadway stars, uh, because it wasn't how I came to know them.

[6:37] Greg Propper: But there is something to be said for the fact that I think many of our clients who I would consider to be really the most sort of socially and justice-oriented have done Broadway.

[6:48] Jan Svendsen: So you'll have to tell me why that what what connection there might be there, but it's interesting.

[6:54] Greg Propper: It is interesting. And you know, one of the reasons that I wanted you on this podcast is because of your amazing brilliance and your empathy um and your innovative thinking, but also because many of your clients have been on Broadway, so it's it was relevant too.

[7:07] Jan Svendsen: And uh it's funny, I always think of people because I'll say, oh, yeah, they're a Broadway star, and they also do film or television.

[7:14] Greg Propper: Right.

[7:14] Jan Svendsen: Um we'd say that about Bradley or I'd say that about about Carrie, you know.

[7:19] Greg Propper: But um, I guess that's not how all people would think of them.

[7:23] Jan Svendsen: Right.

[7:23] Greg Propper: But you're right. You're totally right. And John Legend, um, who's is brilliant, but wouldn't be an e got but for his amazing work on Broadway.

[7:32] Jan Svendsen: That's right.

[7:33] Greg Propper: Um, and I didn't really I knew obviously that he had um produced Jitney, but I as I was as I was googling around, didn't even know that he did the score.

[7:43] Greg Propper: He won for best original score for SpongeBob SquarePants, which you probably knew, but I did not know.

[7:50] Jan Svendsen: But that's amazing.

[7:52] Greg Propper: Yes, there were a lot of big stars, um, a lot of musicians and artists that were part of that.

[7:57] Jan Svendsen: Yeah, SpongeBob. Um anyway, but um I'm I'm glad you're here. Thank you for playing that little game.

[8:03] Jan Svendsen: Um so how we met up actually last, I guess it was last fall for a quick in-person. I think it was one of the few in-person sort of drinks or meetings that I had, and then everything shut down again.

[8:17] Jan Svendsen: But how have you been coping? And how has um how do you feel? I mean, now the vaccine's rolling out. Do you feel hopeful and how's it going?

[8:27] Greg Propper: That's a great question. So I, you know, listen, we've been um first of all, I got COVID, I had COVID very early, as I think I you know.

[8:36] Greg Propper: Um, and I know you had a little scare yourself, but we had it last March before people were really even talking about it, and it went around our office, and a few people got really sick.

[8:47] Greg Propper: I ended up getting really sick. Um, and I gave it to my mom and to my husband.

[8:52] Greg Propper: Um, felt terrible. Thankfully, everybody's fine, but I mentioned that because we got it over with a little bit early, and you know, we're obviously very careful throughout, but it took a little bit of the anxiety away.

[9:05] Greg Propper: Um, so we were a little less anxious about it. So, you know, I'm uh an introvert in an extroverted job.

[9:12] Greg Propper: And so, sort of being home, um, I cope really well with that. I am starting, we're starting to go out a little bit more.

[9:20] Greg Propper: We're gonna hopefully be able to take a trip or two, which I'm really excited about. But in general, yeah, you know, I feel like um there's just people are more optimistic.

[9:32] Greg Propper: I think there's a lot of anxiety about, which I have as well, about just what it's gonna be like out there in the world um and what it's gonna feel like, and we're trying to figure out how to return back to the office safely in a way that's more flexible, all the stuff people are thinking about.

[9:46] Greg Propper: Um, but I'm I'm excited about it. It's been interesting, you know.

[9:52] Greg Propper: I think um, especially the clients that we work with, some of the higher profile clients that we we work with who are so also so used to working all the time, being surrounded by people all the time, really were forced into some, in some cases the first time ever, some sort of um extended periods of introspection.

[10:16] Greg Propper: Um, and um, and I think part of that sort of caused them to want to connect more with people, to be uh connect with other humans, to be of service.

[10:30] Greg Propper: And I think a lot of people sort of had that moment and then couldn't because we couldn't leave our house.

[10:34] Greg Propper: And so I think there's a lot of anxiety, a lot of excitement, a lot of optimism, and a lot of pent-up desire to sort of be of service and connect with other human beings.

[10:43] Greg Propper: So I'm hoping there's some pent up really positive energy out there, which which we're excited about.

[10:49] Jan Svendsen: I hope so too. So this last year, let's talk about that for your company, but also for your clients, because you have clients who are so engaged in doing philanthropic work and social justice work and social activism.

[11:05] Jan Svendsen: And my this was certainly a year to be doing that. So how was it all? Like just talk about some of the highlights of this year for you, your company, and your clients.

[11:16] Greg Propper: Yeah. I'm wondering where to start.

[11:19] Greg Propper: Right. And every time you ask me a question, I'm so tempted to want to ask it right back.

[11:23] Greg Propper: I know that's not how these podcasts work, but I I am curious your experiences as well.

[11:28] Greg Propper: I will say, you know, there's a few layers here.

[11:32] Greg Propper: So first, I'm a business owner, and this was my first time, I think most of our first time having to navigate something like this. There was first of all just an initial moment of sort of fear and serious anxiety about what it was just unpredictable, right? We have, and we can talk more about this, but I'd say about a third of our clients are individuals, individual philanthropists, about a third are corporate brands, and then about a third are nonprofits and foundations. I just didn't know how folks were gonna react, whether people would sort of pause the work because everybody was feeling sort of a little unstable. What I'll say is we had one or two corporate clients who paused, both of whom ended up resuming the work.

But for the most part, and this was a great learning for me, our clients really leaned in and were trying to figure out how to add value. In a way, it makes the beautiful thing about our work is that it is resilient in the social impact space, because I think when times are tough, our clients, by the nature of the work, are wanting to find ways to be of use to the world, and so are really leaning in, and then as times are good, are wanting to give back and make sure that they are contributing back as best as they can. So I think one learning was that we have a resilient that we are good people. There are a lot of good people in the world, and this work is resilient, which is really exciting.

[13:08] Greg Propper: I'd say it was interesting, you know, and again, each of these clients are a little bit different. I'll talk about our individual and sort of entertainment clients for a moment, which is I think, first of all, many of them had time on their hands for the first time, and what was interesting was their default was to just want to do this work full-time, you know, and again, that was amazing. Right, and used to be busy, yeah. Yep, for sure. And so they, but their default instead of, and even our most, you know, we have musical artist clients and actors and writers, and it would have been very easy to go away somewhere and just write for months. But really almost all of them defaulted to want to be full-time philanthropists and activists, which I think was really amazing and hard because our team had to be prepared to really staff a whole bunch of people and clients who were now all of a sudden doing this work full-time.

But, and doing it remotely, which adds another layer of, yeah, totally. And as I said, they all like, you know, I think like all of us became sort of desperate to be of service and to want to like be human. And what was hard about that was we were isolated. And so at this very moment where I think people were trying and seeking to be of service, they also were just, that was hard to do. And so I think that was frustrating.

[14:53] Greg Propper: The only other thing I would say, and I don't want to talk for too long, but just that that's the point of the podcast. It was there's nothing else to do. That's true. This is a long meandering answer, but it was just, it wasn't it was interesting to watch the sort of collective trajectory that everybody was on. Cause I think in the beginning we really saw people lean into sort of prevention, right? Like, how do we, a few of our clients helped organize this together at home concert where everybody was performing from their living rooms and trying to, we had to do some serious behavior shift as a country, right? And as a world. People had to, and we did it, but people at what you think back and remember what it was like in the beginning to get people to understand what it meant to socially distance.

And then there was a lot of sort of what I would call response work. So you'll remember when the shortages of PPE and people just were in need, and so people were just trying to sort of react. And then it moved fairly quickly into, you know, I think, I don't know the right word, but sort of repair or reimagining of systems, and we had a lot of clients who just started to think about, I think like again, like all of us as humans, the pandemic exposed a lot of things that we've known for a long time. And you know, as Rama Manuel said, you never want to let a good crisis go to waste. And so I think folks were thinking about sort of how do we use this moment and start to think really constructively and doing long-term work.

[16:31] Greg Propper: And so it's been interesting to watch. And then I think obviously a lot of activism around that the election, which we can talk more about. The election, yeah. And Black Lives Matter. Yes, that's right. I mean, for sure. Talk about exposing some of the, you know, things that are wrong with society here. This pandemic has also given us time to, you know, we were talking about that with another guest that I was talking to Brian Stokes Mitchell actually, and he said that when George Floyd was murdered, it was like normally everybody would watch that, be completely horrified, but then their lives would move on. In this case, we watched, we were horrified, and we got to sit with it and meditate about it and digest it. And, you know, in some ways that was a very powerful thing. So I feel like, and I know that many of your clients have been, you know, very involved in Black Lives Matter and some of the other social activism that has come out from this year.

[17:37] Greg Propper: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point and perspective that you and Brian raised. And I think it's so true. And it's, you know, it manifested itself in all kinds of different ways. We had clients who did go out in March. We have a really amazing client, Camila Cabello, who is a musical artist who launched a, who's long been interested in issues around mental health and mental wellness. She launched or created a fund to try to get money quickly to racial and social justice activists on the front line who are dealing with their own trauma, knowing that they were in it for the long haul and were going to be out there fighting for an extended period of time and wanting to make sure that they took care of themselves.

And so she created a fund in partnership with the Movement Voter Project to provide rapid response grants to organizers who were struggling. John Legend, speaking of John earlier, is doing this really cool project, which I think it's okay for me to talk about. I may be breaking news here on this podcast, but hopefully I don't get in trouble.

[18:45] Greg Propper: Yeah. You know, John, John's so interesting and brilliant, and we should be his client. But he, when we first met him and started working with him eight years ago, he was focused on issues of ed reform. He became really focused on issues of criminal justice reform a few years later, because he read Michelle Alexander's book, The New Jim Crow, and because he had been sort of seeing and witnessing the school to prison pipeline. But really, the through line, he cared about those issues deeply, but a through line was sort of we have a series of racist and inequitable systems in this country, of which the education and criminal justice system are two. But they're all sort of manifestations of what he would call modern segregation.

And so when the pandemic happened, when George Floyd was murdered, all of these things were at the election. I think John did see this as an opportunity to try to reimagine some of these systems. And what he's done, which is going to roll out shortly, is there's an amazing organization called Fuse Corps, which has been around for about a decade. And they place mid-career professionals into city governments to help run innovation projects at the request of the mayor. And they were at risk, their budget was severely cut because they were primarily funded by municipalities who were having their own budget struggles.

[20:12] Greg Propper: And so John has partnered with Fuse Corps and raised somewhere between 15 and 20 million dollars to place tiger teams, essentially, of what we're calling equitable recovery fellows into city governments around the country to help oversee, help the mayors oversee the recovery through the lens of equity and how to use this as a chance to really experiment and use cities as laboratories and figure out how do we do this better, how do we elevate the best ideas, spread the best ideas. But you know, part of what I'm, I'm why I'm so excited about it is that it is often in at the city level, when times are tough and budgets are cut, it is usually the most vulnerable who are the most impacted. Because cities try to find revenue and fees and fines and actually, and so the risk was at the moment when those populations and communities needed the most help, the city governments were really gonna be slashed.

So I say all this as I think John and the folks at Fuse Corps, I hope over the next few years are not only going to have a serious impact in cities, but will uncover a bunch of really interesting ways to think differently about the role of government in some of these systems so that we have, we're not experiencing these same problems again in two, five, ten years.

[21:33] Greg Propper: So it's interesting to me because you have a very, you know, wide array of different types of clients. And obviously they're gonna have different kinds of needs and need you and your team to be involved in different ways. So just talk a little bit about like a couple different examples, you know, where you know, are there situations where you come in and a client says to you, I want to do good, I don't know what to do, or how do I do good, or you know, like how do you advise people? How do you strategize with them? Like, how do you pinpoint what's important, help them find what they're passionate about, or do they already know? I mean, many I'm sure already know.

[22:07] Greg Propper: Yeah. And it's a great, another again, a question I would love to hear your answer. I need to start a podcast so I can have you. I can answer all these, but you're the expert on this.

[22:19] Greg Propper: Um you are too. Um, I would say um, well, a few things. One is just to a word about sort of how, because we are issue agnostic, we call ourselves a social impact agency. Um, but the reason we really started the firm uh almost 10 years ago now was because we felt like at the time, if you were an individual like John Legend and you wanted to help create measurable, outcome-oriented impact in the world and in a way that was also public-facing and sort of drew people in and brought them along with you, it was very um sort of siloed.

[22:57] Greg Propper: You know, you either had to hire a philanthropic advisor who might tell you how to give your money away, or a publicist or a political advisor or a marketing agency, all of which are pieces of the puzzle, but you were sort of forced to pick a one lever of change and you would have outcomes, but they were sort of more narrow than they could or should be if you had said, what's the outcome? How am I going to measure success? And then how do I take a more sort of integrated, diverse portfolio approach? And so I say that just because, and I'll answer your actual question, uh, which is sort of how do you hone in on issues? But I think where I hope we can add we are adding value to our clients is more around sort of just whatever you care about on any given day.

How do you impact, how do you have impact on that issue in the most effective, sort of high-leverage way, which is let's not start with tactics or let the sort of tail wag the dog? But let's say here's the issue, what's actually happening in that space? Let's understand it together. Where are their gaps? Where are their bright spots? What's working, what's not, and then where can you client X uniquely add value in that space and have impact, which is just a slightly different way of looking at the world, which I think most people would want to do. It's just you've got to have time and a team and some expertise. Um, but I think hopefully where we are most helpful for our clients is helping them not just to default to whatever organization happened to reach out or whatever, you know, the organization that might have the best brand name recognition, but instead really like how do we understand like what are the pressure points on a given issue, and how do you then actually dive in in an effective way.

[24:48] Greg Propper: Um and so with our individual clients, you know, many of them will have a general idea of what they're interested in. Um and I think you know, it's interesting. I think many of our individual clients are somewhere on a spectrum. I'd say on one side of the spectrum, they actually are interested in a lot of things. They say yes, they get a lot of requests, they say yes to everything because they've got big hearts and they want to be helpful, they're empathetic. Um, but you can end up being sort of, you know, and and there's nothing wrong with that, but you can end up spending a lot of time and being a lot of things to a lot of people and not necessarily moving the needle on any one thing. Or on the other side of the spectrum, I say just as often we see clients who can get anybody they want on the phone, can do anything in the world, really.

People will take their call, they'll rally around them, and you can get very easily sort of paralyzed by the enormity of either the problems or the opportunities, and you do nothing. So in general, our goal is to try to help our clients get somewhere in the middle, which is to say, let's educate ourselves, let's figure out how to try something that feels strategic, let's learn from it quickly, and then try something else.

[26:00] Greg Propper: Um, so now I've answered everything but the question you asked me, which is um usually they know that they have an idea for the most part, which is why they will reach out to us. Um, but even within an idea, I think what people don't realize often is how hard it can be then to figure out within any given issue, there's you know, 50, 60 sub-issues, and then a million different ways you can help. And so it's a journey. We try to facilitate that journey. We try to do a lot of if we have time. I can talk more about some of the listening and learning work that um some of our clients have done. Um but but our job really is to help facilitate that listening and learning and help them hone in on a strategy that's impactful.

[26:45] Greg Propper: I think it's interesting because I feel like a lot of people who are listening to this podcast. Well, I hope there are a lot of people listening to this podcast, but I feel like they feel like if they are, they're interested in doing good or being of service. And um I I wanna try to help inspire and educate and motivate people to be more um philanthropic. And I feel like you know, the work that you're doing for some of your you know bigger clients that that happen to be celebrities and have a platform, um that's not who the listeners are necessarily. So I I I wondered what your opinion was about a fan or an everyday person. Um, you know, do you think um do you think people should do the same thing?

Do you think they should, you know, just sort of take a moment or you know, take a few months or whatever and think about what's important to them, what do they feel passionate about, educate themselves about all the different ways to be of service and then sort of be strategic about it? Or, you know, should they, you know, sort of dive in and just only support one cause? Do they say yes to all their neighbors and friends who are asking them to, you know, go to this gala or donate to this auction or whatever? Like, what would your advice be for like what I'd call regular people?

[27:56] Greg Propper: Yeah. Well, regular people. So I'm asking for myself.

[28:01] Jan Svendsen: Right.

[28:01] Greg Propper: I'm asking for a friend, of course.

[28:03] Jan Svendsen: Yes.

[28:03] Greg Propper: Wink wink. Um, I am, I have a tendency to over-complicate and overthink things. So I want to be careful not to do that because I think the truth is there's so much need in the world. Um, and usually being of service, as you know, and I'm sure I've experienced is is sort of a two-way street, is both I would say you should just get out and do something because it's gonna improve your own life and make you feel better and bring positivity into your life. Um, and there's just so much need. And in general, I think there is a tendency as humans to overthink and overcomplicate things, and actually every one of our neighbors, everybody around us needs something, and there are all kinds of ways to be of service. So I would say the short answer is just go do something for sure, um, and start to see what resonates with you, and there is no wrong answer, and there's you know, plenty of need and opportunity to help to go around.

[29:03] Greg Propper: The only thing I would say is just sort of some watch outs. You know, I think it is possible to be both proactive and reactive at the same time. So you're gonna get a lot of requests from your friends, and you're gonna, and I think if you're just constantly being reactive, it can feel you feel a little like, am I really doing anything? Like, I don't have I had impact, but I don't think you should stop doing those reactive things. But I think once you start to find things that you're interested about or that you care about, I would also think about trying to find ways to be proactive uh and to pick a lane, perhaps pick a partner and dedicate a significant, more significant portion of your time, your money, whatever it might be.

Um, just because I think actually it makes you feel it can make you feel more useful, it creates a deeper connection and makes you feel a little less bad about doing all the reactive stuff, which you shouldn't stop doing because these things, there's just a lot of people that need help.

[29:57] Greg Propper: Um the only other thing I would say is it's easy to get um sort of tactic quickly, and I think sometimes there are certain organizations that everybody's just a part of because it you feel like everybody's a part of it. Uh and then there are actually a lot of, and you know their name and they host a really cool like event, or they're great at marketing. But just because they're great at marketing or host a really great event and everybody knows about them doesn't mean, and in fact, often means that they're not the most effective organization. Um, and that there's a lot of organizations doing incredible work in your local community who are actually closest to the people who need the help, the most proximate, have the least resources, but are the first to uh sort of the first line of defense.

[30:45] Greg Propper: And I would just encourage folks to just just us regular folks, I would encourage to really look at some of the local community organizations that may not be as easy to find, but really desperately need help.

[30:57] Jan Svendsen: Yeah, and I think that goes back to just impact. And you know, I think I think everybody wants to be able to measure their impact, right? Or to feel to feel that. Um, and I feel that that's that's a trend, you know, that people are more conscious about where where their dog, not just where their dollars are going, but how they're being used and what is the impact that that that is having having.

[31:20] Greg Propper: And um, so I know that as part of your, you know, your your day job, you know, you are helping these, you know, brands or celebrities, you know, measure their impact and the criteria. But I think that regular people like us, um, we should do that too in our own way, right?

[31:38] Jan Svendsen: Um, yes.

[31:40] Greg Propper: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, and I I this has changed so much, and again, I'm sort of wonky and and we're in this space and and in the weeds on it but you if you follow the sort of conversations in the philanthropy space there was for a really long time um a ton of emphasis being placed on metrics um and outcomes and and I which I think is really important but also um a can be really burdensome uh for the the folks who are doing the work um who are doing the service who are running the programs often with limited capacity and resources and also it's just not everything uh uh when you're working with human beings is so easily sort of measured right and so it's about quality and quantity but quality is important right totally yeah totally and I think um it's just been interesting we we just in our work trying to make sure we find the balance and be careful about it because I can find especially you know we have a bunch of type A people who are working for high profile clients and wanting to make sure we do well by them but really trying to make sure we're doing it in a way that we're being of service to the organizations that they're partnering with trying not to ask too much or ask them to do something new and different than they might otherwise do.

[33:05] Greg Propper: So I think focus is important uh because otherwise you're sort of being only half helpful to a lot of people and that goes for our celebrity clients or regular people uh like you and me.

[33:16] Jan Svendsen: Um, but also I think finding the right balance between sort of quality and quantity, I think is a great is a great way to put it.

[33:25] Jan Svendsen: Let's go back to like Greg Propper when he was young.

[33:29] Jan Svendsen: Um, how did you how did you become interested in in?

[33:34] Jan Svendsen: I mean, I know you've always been sort of politically active, but the whole sort of philanthropic social impact, how did how how is that how was that manifested in you?

[33:43] Greg Propper: Well, it depends how far back you want to go.

[33:45] Jan Svendsen: Yeah.

[33:46] Greg Propper: Like how were you raised? Were you raised with um, you know, in a family that that said this is important or that demonstrated it to you? Or how did you how did you get there?

[33:54] Greg Propper: I think a few things. Um my parents for sure, and my mother did it in a less does it in a less organized way. Um, but is just kind and I think is the least judgmental human being I literally have ever met on the planet. And I I know I'm not objective, but really truly like there's just no judgment. And and then my father did it in a more organized way. I guess one is I think my mom, both of my parents, my mom especially is super empathetic.

[34:25] Greg Propper: My whole, it's like, and I say this not when I named it earlier, it wasn't, it is a good quality, but also I think actually sometimes I have it to a fault and it can become a bad quality, it can put me in a in a basement. Um, but I would go, my father worked in the had a chain of women's clothing stores in the Bronx. I grew up in New York and I would spend a lot of most weekends at the cash register, um, and just meeting and seeing a lot of people, both that worked for my father and also in the community who were struggling and watching him both in his day to day life, how he treated people and tried to create opportunity through his work, but also, you know, in his, he was very involved in the human rights commission in the town where we grew up.

He ran for city council. I think going door to door with him when I was in middle school was the most transformative experience for me. And he just, I think I just learned early that most things are, I think everybody thinks that things are real, and well, this isn't the right way to say it, but everything seems hard. You don't think you can make a difference when in actuality it's much easier than people think if you just do it, right? You people have serious power. And I would watch him just take things on in our little town where we grew up. Um, and I just recognize the privilege in this, but I think I just recognize, or I thought early that you know, you have to be pragmatic about things, but you can really get anything done that you want to get done.

And if you care enough about something, you should just try to do it. And so I think I would do that a lot and just plan things at my school. I was the head, it will shock you to know I was the head of our community service organization in high school.

[36:07] Jan Svendsen: Of course you were.

[36:09] Greg Propper: But what was, you know, I think then a little to skip ahead a few years, um, went to college and graduated. I went, I was pre-med because I was obsessed with ER. And then West Wing came, West Wing came on and I switched to political science. But I worked in politics in DC for a few years and felt loved it, um, but felt like it was somewhat disconnected from what was happening on the ground in communities. And then I moved to Boston and went to work for City Year, incredible service organization, and felt like also it was insanely effective. Um, and there were all these really effective community organizations who had figured stuff out, but it wasn't scaling or changing sort of policy and systems.

And so I had this idea for a nonprofit I wanted to start that I thought could connect the two and help local organizations be more effective in scaling sort of what worked. And I went to law school because I thought a law degree would be helpful. And it was only moderately helpful. But then I helped start an organization called Be the Change, um, which I can tell you more about, which led to Propper Daley. But it was sort of this um just a search for like if you want to be useful in the world, what's the most effective way to do it in government, out of government, together? Um that's how we ended up here. And I still don't know the answer. So I just I don't know. But it's all about the journey, you know, and all about the journey. The answer, there's no answer. There's no one answer, right? Or it's all about what TV shows on NBC.

[37:37] Jan Svendsen: I was gonna say what TV show you're watching.

[37:40] Greg Propper: What was well, this is a true story. So I what ER was on Thursday nights on NBC at 10, West Wing Wednesday nights at nine. And so I literally remember going home and I was sitting in my parents' living room and the TV guide came out when it used to be a paper TV guide. And I said, okay, I said whatever is on Tuesday night at eight is gonna be my next career because I had gone from Thursday night at 10 to Wednesday night at night. So I flipped through the pages of the TV guide to see what it was gonna be, and I get to the page and it was The Biggest Loser.

[38:09] Jan Svendsen: Oh no.

[38:10] Greg Propper: Yeah. Which clearly, so so that's where I diverged, and I had to figure out something else to do with my life.

[38:17] Jan Svendsen: Yeah. Well, you've done some good things with your life. I know that you were we both have a relationship with Town and Country Magazine and our friend Steline. Um, and I know that there was a virtual event, the show must go on, making art and impact in a changing world. And um you were great in moderating that. Um, but I wonder, what are your thoughts about the importance of arts um and social impact in the world today? And that intersection between art and social impact.

[38:44] Greg Propper: It's a big question, and we only have a few minutes, but I just thought I would give you a shot. Thank you. I'm gonna give you a really, this will shock you again, but a somewhat wonkier answer because there's all kinds of emotional, I think, um, answers to that question that are really personal for people. Um, but I'll just say one thing that I've just been interested in, which we haven't figured out either, but try to get better at every day, which is in my experience at least, when you look at sort of successful social justice movements, social movements, public health movements, they tend to follow a similar-ish pattern with a ton of outliers, but there's some level of awareness of a problem, a solution, an idea that leads to sort of an individual attitude shift and a shift in the sort of collective norm that leads to behavior shift that leads to policy shift.

And I think oftentimes in our work, we tend to either default to awareness because it's sort of easier, it's sexier, it's points on the board, it's why you sometimes see celebrity PSAs that might not get a lot of people to do a lot of things because awareness isn't always the problem, or we might jump right to policy shift because it feels like a silver bullet, and um actually, but but it but but that policy doesn't stick because we didn't do the two parts in between that I think are the hardest and actually the most important, which is shaping attitudes and behaviors, and I think this idea of figuring out how to leverage culture and art to shift the way people think and behave. If you can figure that out, you've nailed it, right?

And there's all kinds of things we can do, and there's something about relating to characters, being emotionally connected to characters, whether they're on stage or on screen, that opens up your heart and your mind. And there are literal studies about this. I'm sure you've seen some of them. There's a sociological concept called transportation, which is if you are really deeply connected to a character, you are X times more likely to be swayed by their attitudes and their behaviors. So we could talk about that for hours, but part of what we have a lot of fun trying to do. And again, it's not to say we've nailed it. This is not a science, uh, it is an art, um, is to say when we work with a client around an issue, if it's true that awareness plus attitude plus behavior equals X, where are you? Like, where's the pressure point? And are there interesting, unique ways to leverage art or culture to try to you know move the needle on that pressure point? Um yeah, but but that's it's uh yeah.

[41:22] Jan Svendsen: No, no, and that's that's great. And and you know, part B to this question is really um, I've been asking a lot of my guests, you know, if you could wave a magic wand, what changes would you hope would happen in the entertainment industry going forward, especially after this year?

[41:37] Greg Propper: Oh my gosh. Well, I think we're seeing a lot of really positive change, which is great. Uh I would I would say um, you know, we host an annual event called the Day of Unreasonable Conversation, which is essentially there, there's a growing, so we're in a golden, a new golden age of television, as I'm sure folks know. Um, yet there's still, and it's increasingly diverse, but it but there is still a relatively small group of people who write the script for the world every year and how we view each other and how we view issues. Um like myself and other humans, uh, have their own lived experience, their own professional experience, and they're spending a lot of time in writers' rooms, for example, um working and but but they're really bringing their own set of experiences.

And so what can happen is I think there are a growing set of organizations who are amazing at working with writers and helping them think differently about populations of people and issues, but it can be easy for us to end up in a sort of a silo uh or or and and not always in anywhere we live in any industry. You don't always, you know, have a full um sort of grasp of different perspectives. So I say all this because we do this annual event where we try to bring together about 600 right television content creators with people who have very different lived experiences and perspectives to just try to sort of flip switches in in people's brains so that when they go back to their writers, they're thinking differently.

So um it's not a change per se, but I think trying to create more opportunities for content creators to be in community with people that have different perspectives from them, so that we can tell stories with more nuance and hopefully build more empathy and understanding. I think it's gonna be really important because as a country, we're just talking to ourselves and there's such a divide, and we're so polarized that I think if first content creators can get out of their own bubble and we can help facilitate that somehow, I think it'll have a ripple effect. I hope it would have a ripple effect on viewers.

[43:43] Jan Svendsen: You put such a good button on this. I don't want this to end, but I know we have to end. I feel like we have to change it out.

[43:47] Greg Propper: We do this for hours.

[43:50] Jan Svendsen: We'll do it again. We'll do it again. Um, I'm so grateful that you were here today, and I um I can't wait to hear all the news stories that are going to be coming out of um, you know, your world and and your clients and um the more diverse stories and um and also the people who get to select what stories are told are gonna be important too. And I feel like you're so important in that um in that development. So thank you for all the work that you do on behalf of um on behalf of well yourself, but also you do so much important work behind the scenes, and I don't think people realize um how how that how important that is and how that helps shape um a lot of the good that's going on in the world today. So thank you.

[44:31] Greg Propper: Wow, you're really kind, and thank you for everything you do, and you're incredibly good at this, and I'm honored to have been asked to be a part of it. And thank you for everything you've done throughout your career and everything that your colleagues on Broadway do, which is just incredible for a lot of communities who don't have a voice. And so thank you, and let's do it again soon.

[44:50] Jan Svendsen: Absolutely. All right, then thank you.

[44:54] Jan Svendsen: Thanks for listening to this episode of Broadway Gives Back. Broadway Gives Back is part of the Broadway Podcast Network, produced by Dori Berinstein and Alan Seales with Brittany Bigelow, and music by Eric Becker at Broderick Street Music. Special thanks to my producing partner, writer, and friend, Jim Lochner, and to Katie and Yo at BPN, Julian Hills from the Bulldog Agency, the Charity Network, and to my fiancé, Glenn Weiss, who is always my consultant. If you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe and rate this podcast wherever you stream your podcasts. You can also follow Broadway Gives Back on Facebook and Instagram at Broadway Gives Back Podcast and on Twitter at Broadway Gives. To learn more, visit BPN.fm slash Broadway Gives Back.