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[0:05] Jan Svendsen: Welcome to the Broadway Gives Back Podcast.

[0:07] Jan Svendsen: I'm your host, Jan Svendsen.

[0:10] Jan Svendsen: This podcast spotlights Broadway actors, shows, and organizations in their pursuit of social impact and philanthropy.

[0:17] Jan Svendsen: Join us as some of the brightest lights on Broadway share their stories about their favorite charities and how they got involved, and the people and the causes who benefited from these philanthropic efforts.

[0:37] Jan Svendsen: It is the arts that lift us culturally and the expansion of our worlds and our connection to other countries and internationally, and there is something about the arts that has the ability to reach out in ways that other things might not in the same way or with the same ease.

[1:00] Jan Svendsen: That was my good friend Judith Light, whose humanity, philanthropy, and well, light set the tone for this podcast.

[1:09] Jan Svendsen: Over the last few months, I've chatted with dozens of Broadway luminaries about their careers, their views on doing good, their hopes and their dreams for a better Broadway when it reopens in the fall.

[1:45] Jan Svendsen: If you could wave a magic wand, what changes would you want to see on Broadway when it reopens?

[1:51] Jan Svendsen: They responded passionately and with suggestions for audiences as well as for the talented folks that work on stage, backstage, and behind the scenes.

[2:01] Jan Svendsen: This is a special episode of Broadway Gives Back, and it's devoted to those changes.

[2:07] Jan Svendsen: We'll start with one of the most controversial issues raised during the pandemic: Broadway's racial reckoning.

[2:14] Jan Svendsen: The pandemic shined a bright, well, a bright white light on the injustices BIPOC individuals have suffered in the theater industry.

[2:23] Jan Svendsen: Anissa Folds from Freestyle Love Supreme and Tony Award winner Celia Keenan-Bolger shared their thoughts on changes that they hope to see on Broadway when it reopens.

[2:34] Anissa Folds: I mean, I do think it's called the Great White Way for a reason. I'll start by saying that. I'm gonna be honest, a lot of the racial injustices that I've experienced myself have happened in the Broadway community. I want to see more creatives of color. I want to go into an audition room and see myself behind the table. I want more people of color on the teams that are creating this work. I want more stories to be told by people of color. I want to see us populated on stage. I want us to see ourselves when we're on stage. I want to bring diverse voices to the forefront. I think that there's just a lot of things that need to be changed. And I think that throughout this time we've been having those conversations.

People have been held accountable. And hopefully moving forward, it's stuck and things are going to start to change because it's necessary. It's very, very necessary. If I could wave the magic wand, it would help the white community of theater makers sit in their discomfort with the change that needs to occur because they think white comfort has trumped, I mean, it continues to always take priority. And this includes this guy right here. That I, when I think about the change that is about to that's that I think is required for equity, it's not going to be that enjoyable for me. And so I have to figure out how to build systems that can support me through that discomfort. I hope that when it comes up, instead of throwing up our hands and being like, this is crazy.

Can't we just go back to the way it was? That we will be strong enough and that we will have the belief that I have always had in our community that I'm realizing is like sort of rotted at the foundation that I believed it was this place that had a space for everyone and that was inclusive and loving, and that everybody's experience inside and it made them feel more whole and more like themselves, only to find out that that is in fact the opposite for many members of our community, and to figure out how to not only create the space so that they have more of the experience that I've had all this time, but also to create the space for me to feel like this is very hard, and also I can get through this.

[4:59] Jan Svendsen: As Anisa just mentioned, diversity on stage and off is very, very necessary, as is the need for pipelines and resources for BIPOC individuals to achieve those goals. Many of my guests echoed her sentiments, including Tony Award winners, Michael McElroy and Tanya Pinkins, and Josh Groban, Freestyle Love Supreme's Chris Sullivan, Seth Rudetsky, and James Wesley. Here's what they had to say.

[5:28] Michael McElroy: I would like more diversity in our offices, in our casting offices, in our producing offices, in our general management offices. I would like there to be more diversity in the stories that are being told and who's getting to tell those stories. I don't think we should ever do another show where we have an all-white creative team. I mean, that's an easy ask, and just that's something we can be accountable for. That diversity, that richness of diversity, will just add to what is possible on that piece. So that's just a no-brainer. We can start there, right?

[6:18] Tanya Pinkins: I would like us to have more business relationships with our communities of color, and that all our vendors should not reflect back on us who we are. Afraid and buying the crap that uh that that's fear based, that if this person gets it, that's gonna take something away from you, right? We're buying that crap, and we need to put that crap away and step into a space of bravery and say, I want for the betterment of humanity, for the betterment of my art, I want that. So I want to be in the room with diverse voices. I'm not gonna be afraid of that. We don't need diversity and inclusiveness. We don't need, we don't, we don't need jobs, we need resources. I also hope that um the continuing important discussion about um inclusivity and equality uh uh in the behind the scenes in casting decisions, um continues to be at the forefront of how we change um the mentality uh and the power dynamics uh and uh in on Broadway.

I think it's uh a conversation that's been raised by a number of different people. Um I was very proud to be in a show that was among the most diverse ever. Uh and I think that that needs to continue.

[8:06] Tanya Pinkins: And I think that conversation needs to continue, and I think that um it will only make Broadway even more vibrant, more um powerful. And uh, and I look forward to to being part of it.

[8:24] Josh Groban: Yeah, creating more pathways to that stage, not just a standardized step by step, and I think would help help with that process. I think you're not gonna be able to get away with you know, there's been more diversity, but there's gonna have to be a lot more when Broadway comes back. And specifically behind the scenes, I would say an emphasis on behind the scenes, both creatively, crews, um, on the musicians, yeah, everything. I think that's gonna be now that we do have a new administration and so much of the focus of our friends, uh specifically uh in the theater community, specifically of color and allies who've been so focused on having January 20th happen. Now their energies, I can guarantee you are gonna be focused, laser focused on these changes uh between now and let's say the fall. Uh on in ways that I don't even know what they will be, but there will be um, you know, I don't want to call it a reckoning, but definitely a correction that's much needed and overdue.

[9:35] Jan Svendsen: Another common theme is diversity in storytelling. Not just the stories being told on stage, but the people who make the decisions about which stories even get to be told. Freestyle Love Supreme's Anthony Veneziale, Proper Daily's president Greg Proper, Tony Nominee Gideon Glick, Mandy Gonzalez, and Sarah Bareilles all offer variations on this theme. Here's what they have to say.

[9:59] Anthony Veneziale: This country is steeped, right, in in problematic policy. And so can Broadway help shift hearts and minds? Because we see that that is a really great initial wedge, right? So a keystone for winning equality in marriage was to make sure each state had a like real knowledge of what it meant to to allow people to love who they love. Right. And so how can Broadway potentially be used as that as a tool for that to shift policy, to change policy? Because racism, yes, it affects individuals incredibly, and it affects all of us in terrible ways. Like and there's there's you know, insights as to white people suffer uh, you know, health-wise more than black people when it comes to the that them them being racist, right?

Like you can like point to some of these different statistics. I'm not trying to say suffering by one group is more than another. That's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying health outcomes and like who dies from these policies um here in the United States. Um, and obviously the violence that is perpetuated. There's also like we stole land from Native Americans. And so, like every Broadway theater should like literally on the outside be like, this was property of the Lenape. Like, or you know, like pay honor to where it comes from, because all of this is stolen. I mean, all of this is taken. And so stories can help us kind of undress and unpack some of that damage and that violence. We keep perpetuating violence on ourselves and on each other in America. I mean, it's it's intense. And Broadway, I think people come to Broadway to to unpack some of that, but now we need to take it to the next step.

[11:38] Anissa Folds: Cool, you've unpacked it emotionally. That's wonderful. Now, how do we drive policy change? Because just humans understanding and being educated isn't changing racism in our country. It's not a change per se, but I think trying to create more opportunities for content creators to be in community with people that have different perspectives from them, so that we can tell stories with more nuance and hopefully build more empathy and understanding. I think it's gonna be really important because as a country, we're just talking to ourselves and there's such a divide, and we're so polarized that I think if first content creators can get out of their own bubble, um, and we can help facilitate that somehow, I think it'll have a ripple effect.

I hope it would have a ripple effect. I mean, I would say obviously, with the you know, the racial reckoning that this with the Black Lives Matter movement. I I I would hope that when we come back there's more equality. I mean, I I've never once auditioned for a black casting director, which I just think is insane. It's insane. I think we can we can work harder to to make that happen. And I and it it's not it can't be about virtue signaling, and it can't be about getting your numbers in. It has to be about a real desire for that. It has to be about the desire to tell another story, not the idea that we will tell that story because we have to, or because again, we're hitting uh a checking off a box. And I think that is the mentality that we I would hope when we come back that that's part of part of building up the community again.

[13:25] Michael McElroy: I would love to just see more um more chances taken on uh writers of color. I think that um we need to be on the stage, but also um behind the scenes as well. And uh I know things are changing and we will get there, but I I hope that this definitely has shined a light on um on stories that need to be told because uh it's very important to to move forward in that way. I think the two things that feel that are the most important to me is diversity in storytellers and storytelling, um, the kinds of stories that get made into musicals and who gets to make them, and affordability. I think that is one of the things that feels like the saddest thing to me about Broadway is that the exclusivity is sort of built into the structure because it's so expensive, and it's expensive for a lot of reasons.

It's not even just greedy producers who are trying to, you know, it's it really is a it's a form and function of the way this structure is set up and how much it costs to have a building, and you know, all kinds of things and unions, and um so I understand that it's complicated, but I really think that changing the theater, which is what it's meant for, is is to be uh to have um a more open door policy to the community it is made of and is for. You know, there is no Broadway without audiences, and many of our guests express their hope for more accessibility, better safety protocols, and lower ticket prices.

[15:16] Anissa Folds: Here from Situation Interactive's founder Damien Basadona, Rent Alumni Adam Pascal and Andy Senior Jr., actor Richard Kind, Broadway World founder and editor-in-chief Robert Diamond, as they offer their thoughts on how Broadway can improve the theater going experience for returning audiences. I don't even need a magic wand because I believe this can happen. I really believe it can happen, is that we are reflect of the communities we are trying to serve. And I believe we can get there. We have the inventory, we have the opportunity to reconnect with our local community. We've ditched a local community. It's like we've said goodbye to years ago because we've been focus on tourists. Now tourists aren't going.

Here's our chance to reconnect. And so I think the magic, the thing I would say is the best we can be is being reflected the communities we serve. And I'm speaking on behalf of the public schools I work with. We don't fund them, we don't support them. Just as a as a city, not blaming Broadway. But here's our chance. It's like these kids deserve the same chance as everybody else does. We have the seats, the cast wants it, the company wants it. No one wants to be in those theaters post-pandemic. We will get there. No one wants to be in those theaters, not performing and doing all this to be going working around our community of people around us. So I and I think it's completely not only just doable, it's gonna have to happen if we're gonna succeed.

I believe so in the future. This has been a changing point for Broadway. Pretty passionate about it. And I know the Broadway League's doing some interesting things too, like exciting things, trying to really progress this conversation about how we kind of just diversifying at large the audience we're seeking, the way we're doing things. So I'm an optimist, so I don't think I need a match. I think I think COVID might have been the magic wand through all the pain that it brought, but uh for the more important on the positive side, I think for the change it could bring.

[17:03] Josh Groban: I would love to see, and I think we certainly will see a drop in initial ticket prices as as the attempt to get audiences to come back to theater uh you know takes over. And and then, but I I I hope we don't see the which the will probably be probably be the inevitable uptick of those prices over the course of the next few years back up to the crazy you know amounts that that get charged. Um, because I you know, I I think it just, you know, look, it's the we've been having this conversation for years, you know. You know, one of the main arguments is that it just alienates so many people from from the opportunity of seeing, you know, this incredible art form that we all work so hard at, and and you know, and and love so much.

Yeah, yeah. If it was a wand over the US, I think it would be freedom. I mean, a while a show has to be successful in order to make money and so forth, but like a real sense of creative freedom, uh that wasn't bound so much about uh with within the business. Although I I the business is incredibly important. Maybe it's over the audiences as to less the theater, but more like the audiences to be open. And you know, actually, how about this? I would wave my wand around audiences, particularly Hispanic audiences, audiences of color, to uh to to attend and and for ticket prices to be available to to that uh uh those groups of people. That's something that I would do. Programs that would that would inspire uh, you know, for example, I'm Hispanic, Hispanic community to to attend theater regularly, um, to make it part of the culture.

Lower ticket prices, lower ticket prices and let young people go to the theater. Do not make it uh an elite activity. I think one thing that the pandemic may have done is to lower the bar of ticket prices. And I think that's that's great in order for for Broadway to come back. Theater is should not be a money-making proposition.

[19:10] Anthony Veneziale: I'm hoping that theater will continue its path of accessibility in every meeting of that word, so making it easier for people to see theater, be that in New York or locally at affordable ticket prices, that's uh accessible because you're seeing yourself and your stories and stories that inspire you on that stage. And that's taking further advantage of all these streaming things that we've learned during this strange time to let people that can't see stuff in the theater because of time or money or location get some sense of the experience through streaming that then will lead them into uh future live productions as time, money, and geography allow. The shutdown has been difficult for everyone in this country, and it's been particularly difficult for everyone in the Broadway and theater going industry for actors, stage hands, publicists, management offices, well, I guess just about everybody.

So here are some words from New York Theater Workshop's artistic director Jim Nicola, Freestyle Love Supremes, Andrew Bancroft, the Actors Fund president Joe Ben Casa, Actors Fund Board Chair and Tony Award winner Brian Stokes Mitchell, Broadway Green Alliance Director Molly Braverman, Tony Award winner John Lloyd Young, and the public theater's board chair Arielle Tepper and Artistic Director Oscar Eustace, as they offer some solutions to making working on Broadway a safer and more importantly, a more equitable place for everyone.

[20:59] Jim Nicola: And that's the solution. That's the way to an answer. You know, that maybe maybe the health care for a performer is better provided by national health care and not by an agreement between labor and management, which feels like something from 1920. You know, that I hope, but that's what I'm hoping, that the theater comes back in the frame of a culture whose imagination has been inflamed to really reconsider what we've what agreements we've made and how can we do it better and help everybody, everybody in the culture benefit, not just the 1%.

[21:42] Brian Stokes Mitchell: I I would add audiences too. It would be, you know, making Broadway accessible to a more diverse audience. I have a personal, I don't know if I'm gonna uh turn off a lot of fans or whatever by saying I I love old shows, I love you know shows coming back, um, but I I I really get lit up by new stories and new work, and and Disney has amazing shows, but I’m hoping that Broadway won't turn into just the shore things of like all the old shows that you've seen before, and 20 of them are Disney, you know. I think our nation needs to be to start writing a new story. And the way to do that in my mind is to hear new work and new stories. Well, A, we'd like to see uh safe, all the safety protocols put in place.

We want to see full theaters, uh, we want to see fairness and equity within the entire community. You know, we we want to see a robust theater, film, and television community. And we want all of those disciplines to be combined and recognize as one community. We uh we're looking for equity and fairness, and we want to make sure that every uh member of the theater and the creative community can earn a fair living, have health insurance, be able to live decently and and and good housing.

[23:13] Michael McElroy: I think more than anything, and this is kind of the world at large, how I feel, but also for our own community. My hope, my wish is that we don't forget the lessons that we have learned, that we don't, in our euphoria of opening up and getting back to quote unquote normal, whatever that is, forget that there are people that are hurting, there are inequities, there are problems that we have that need to be looked at. And in our intoxication of the joy of coming back, and man, I plan on being intoxicated by that as well. But I hope that in that intoxication we don't forget what we need to pay attention to and the lessons that we have learned. You know, just by quieting ourselves, just by spending time walking through a park and listening to birds, just by sitting with our families that we have, or the people that are close to us that we've been able to be with, whether on a screen or if we're lucky enough to be with people in three dimensions, as I like to say, you know, to really appreciate what we have and what it is like being a human being, what it's like to be alive on this planet at this time, and what we can do to make everybody's lives just a little bit better.

If each one of us did something that made people's lives just a little bit better, that would be a wondrous thing. So I hope we don't forget and we keep moving forward and keep going towards justice and equality and safety and diversity and all of those ideals that we have in our heart that were laid so bare during the last year.

[25:13] Tanya Pinkins: I share Susan's hope of coming back better, you know. We all talk about how there's no return to normal, normal didn't work. And so I'm deeply inspired by our community's engagement in hard thinking and planning during this time. We cannot go back, we don't have time to go back. You know, the climate crisis is here, it's now, and I'm again deeply hopeful and inspired by those who have come forward. Our membership has grown by over 25% during the shutdown. People are ready to take action, and it's our members and our community that gives me hope for what's next. I don't know how it's gonna happen, but I hope that there is a recognition that we're an ecosystem, that we all rely on each other, and that this marginalization of people because they're the actor or because they're the talent is really inappropriate.

We all have our place in the ecosystem, but I really find it very uncomfortable to be someone who can reach the level of presidential appointee for the first African American president in history and still be classed down all the way to the bottom as a member of this ecosystem. And I would like to see it change.

[26:30] Josh Groban: So I would say that for people on my side, the art, the creative side, I'd like to see us have a little bit more of a seat at the table and not be so disregarded. I just think about how difficult it is for people to get in, to get to be a part of it, to you know, be a part, we're a very insular industry. And I've always felt strongly that, you know, when people get off the bus, they should just like feel really welcome to be a part of it, whether it's Broadway or off Broadway or anything, because I think that the people who are in theater and work in theater really do it because they feel like it's a family, and it's so hard to get in that family, but once you're in, it can be really amazing. And I think that if we as an industry could really create a place where people feel like that all the time, that would be that to me is one of the definitions of what theater is, and also I think part of the reason that we all do it.

[27:40] Michael McElroy: So that would be an incredible thing. I think the theater actually has a golden opportunity right now, which is that when we come back, we have the chance to prove what we've long said that theater is unique in its ability to bind communities together, that theater and democracy go hand in hand, that theater is fundamentally a democratic art form. But if we're going to take advantage of that opportunity, that means the doors have to be flung open, not only for audiences, but very much for audiences, but also for where we perform, for whose story gets to be told, for who gets to decide whose story gets to be told. The combination, you know, in a way you could look at this pandemic, the essential feature of it was that it made the theater stop.

We do the one thing that has become unhealthy and illegal, which is to gather in groups and breathe together and cry together and laugh together and fill the air with particles. And we've not been allowed to do that. We've had to retreat for a year. Now, when we come back, can we demonstrate that we actually matter, that we actually have a healing ability for this terribly fractured company? And if we do, I think this could end up being an incredible gift to the theater because it's forcing us to be our best selves.

[29:07] Jan Svendsen: Before we conclude this special podcast, I wanted to ask all of you listeners the same question. If you could wave a magic wand, what changes would you like to see in Broadway when it returns? Send us a voice memo to Broadway Gives Back Podcast at gmail.com and we'll put you on our podcast. I have to say that my guests remain hopeful that when Broadway returns, it will be better than ever. I know that I feel that way too. I'm gonna let public theater associate artistic director, Shanta Fake, and Broadway Green Alliance founder and wicked company manager Susan Stamplaner, as well as jagged Little Pills star Elizabeth Stanley, Sarah Barales, and Josh Groban wrap up this special Broadway Gives Back podcast episode on a resounding note of hope.

[30:00] Shanta Fake: I do hope we're walking into a world one where people really see themselves as a part of a theater community, that theater is central to how they think about the world. In this time where we haven't been able to gather together, that they are looking to theater as a place where they can see their community, that they can heal with their community, that it doesn't have to be this thing that is only for special occasions, but really feels central to this is how I move through my life. And through that, also I'm hoping that this time really instills in us as a country and society the value of what it means to work in the arts and in live theater particularly, but that this is a profession. That these are a set of individuals doing work that requires payment and a true place in what it when we look at how our society functions, that we need to value our arts in the same way that we value our other industries.

[31:05] Susan Stamplaner: I think I would say that Broadway will be back, and it's gonna come back different than it was, and I think that's a good thing. I think we're gonna come back more inclusively and more socially conscious and more of a community who's looking to connect with each other even more than we did before. And that gives me a tremendous amount of hope. And I just know from a marketing point of view, we hear from the fans that they can't wait to come back. So that gives me a tremendous amount of hope. Because that was our fear, too, is our people gonna be willing to come back into a theater. And the fans are telling us, yes, we will, and that gives me tremendous hope. We will be back and it will be better.

And I think it will be that much sweeter, too, to be sharing that. You know, it's such a special thing to share a live performance with a live audience. It's like I think we always knew that, but I think during this time, there's no denying that that is like something that you don't get in any other way. You can't just get that by watching TV or even having a live thing happening on a screen. And so I think we all will cherish that that much more as well.

[32:18] Elizabeth Stanley: When theater and art and culture aren't pulsing through the veins of this city, it feels bleak in certain ways. So we just get this amazing opportunity to see the value of arts and culture in when we knew that, but we get to really see what it looks like if it wasn't here, and I think there will be such an appetite for it in every way, shape, and form, and that feels like a really good thing, too. We thought we had a ceiling for how much we loved it, how much we appreciated it, but I think there's a whole new level of gratitude. Not only for those of us that just miss being up there, but I think a huge amount of national and global gratitude for what theater gives us in our community, what it actually does beyond just spending two hours and taking a cab back to your hotel and you know, humming the tunes.

What an infusion into how important it is into our humanity and to our cultural landscape. We are better people because we have the arts, because we have the impact of theater and all the incredible people who work in it. So I hope that when it comes back and when there is a renaissance of creativity and love and support, that there is just a celebration and a continued with no amnesia appreciation for the men and women that provide that for us and give New York and beyond this incredible cultural gift.

[33:47] Jan Svendsen: Thanks for listening to this episode of Broadway Gives Back. Broadway Gives Back is part of the Broadway Podcast Network, produced by Dori Berinstein and Alan Seales with Brittany Bigelow, and music by Eric Becker at Broderick Street Music. Special thanks to my producing partner, writer, and friend, Jim Lochner, and to Katie and Yo at BPN, Julian Hills from the Bulldog Agency, the Charity Network, and to my fiancé, Glenn Weiss, who is always my consultant. If you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe and rate this podcast wherever you stream your podcasts. You can also follow Broadway Gives Back on Facebook and Instagram at Broadway Gives Back Podcast and on Twitter at Broadway Gives. To learn more, visit BPN.fm slash Broadway Gives Back.