This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:14] David Armstrong: Welcome to another episode of Broadway Nation, the podcast that tells the remarkable history of the Broadway musical with a special focus on the immigrant, Jewish, queer, and black artist who invented it.

[0:27] David Armstrong: I'm David Armstrong, and as listeners to this podcast have undoubtedly heard by now, composer CHARLES STROUSE, one of the last of the great creators of the Golden Age of Broadway, left us this week at the age of 96.

[0:41] David Armstrong: Of course, CHARLES STROUSE and his three Tony Award-winning best musicals, Bye Bye Birdie, Applause, and Annie, have been discussed frequently on this podcast.

[0:51] David Armstrong: So over the weekend, in addition to delving into the archives of Broadway Nation, I newly adapted some sections of my upcoming book to create this tribute to CHARLES STROUSE.

[1:02] David Armstrong: Before we begin, I need to thank the patrons of Broadway Nation whose generous ongoing support helps to make this podcast possible.

[1:10] David Armstrong: With a special shout out today to Taryn Darr.

[1:13] David Armstrong: If you would like to help support the work of Broadway Nation, please listen for the information at the end of the episode about how you too can become a patron.

[1:22] David Armstrong: On the 21st episode of Broadway Nation, I focused on the final decade of the Golden Age of Broadway, which kicked off in 1960 with the satirical musical comedy Bye Bye Birdie, which, as I noted, became the very first Broadway show to include any kind of rock and roll music in its score.

[2:01] David Armstrong: As well as the very first to dramatize the impact on American culture of the post-war baby boom generation, the largest in history and the generation gap that its dominance created.

[2:12] David Armstrong: It was only four years prior to Birdie's 1960 premiere that Elvis Presley had first emerged on the scene as a rock music sensation.

[2:21] David Armstrong: Of course, the birth of rock and roll is its own uniquely American story of how black and white music came together and combined with sexual liberation to revolutionize an art form.

[2:32] David Armstrong: But I'll leave that to somebody else's podcast.

[2:35] David Armstrong: In 1956, Elvis had made his first legendary appearance on the Ed Sullivan show, during which, because of his infamous pelvic gyrations, the television cameras would only show him from the waist up, and his singing could barely be heard over the screaming of the young girls in the audience.

[2:51] David Armstrong: And all of this turned Elvis into a superstar.

[2:54] David Armstrong: Then in 1958, he was unexpectedly drafted into the army and had to put his singing career on hold, much to the dismay of devastated teenage girls across America who were sent into waves of grief and despair.

[3:08] David Armstrong: Inspired by these real-life incidents, the creators of Bye Bye Birdie invented a fictional version of Elvis named Conrad Birdie and devised a plot about what might happen if a sexually provocative young rock star was suddenly thrust into the small-town, middle-class, middle American lives of the citizens of Sweet Apple, society, and culture.

[3:36] David Armstrong: But if you've only seen the movie of Bye Bye Birdie, then you really haven't seen the show because much of the satire was watered down for the film.

[3:44] David Armstrong: Bye Bye Birdie was the surprise hit of the season.

[3:47] David Armstrong: The New York Daily News called it the funniest, most captivating, and most expert musical comedy one could hope to see in several seasons of showgoing.

[3:56] David Armstrong: This one show not only launched Dick Van Dyke and Chita Rivera into major stardom, it also launched the careers of three young men in their early 30s who would go on to have a tremendous influence on the final decade of the Golden Age of Broadway and beyond.

[4:16] David Armstrong: Composer CHARLES Strouse was born in New York City in 1928 to middle-class Jewish parents who worked in the tobacco business.

[4:24] David Armstrong: He began taking piano lessons at the age of 10, and at the age of 15, he entered the Eastman School of Music at the University of Rochester.

[4:32] David Armstrong: He then studied classical music composition in Paris with the famous teacher Nadia Boulanger, and then returned to the United States to study with Aaron Copland.

[4:41] David Armstrong: In 1949, he met lyricist Lee Adams at a party, and a long and successful musical partnership was born.

[4:47] David Armstrong: The duo started out contributing songs to numerous reviews.

[4:51] David Armstrong: Then in 1958, producer Edward Padula was auditioning writing teams for a new musical about teenagers.

[4:57] David Armstrong: Strouse and Adams were eventually selected, and during the next year they wrote over 50 possible songs for the show.

[5:04] David Armstrong: And because the show was being written by this team of unknowns, they had to pitch the show and perform their songs at over 75 backers' auditions in order to raise enough financing to put it on Broadway.

[5:19] ♪ Musical number: "Put On a Happy Face" — performed by CHARLES STROUSE ♪

[6:16] David Armstrong: Strouse and Adams won a Tony for Best Score their first time out, and this was in a season that included Lerner and Loewe's Camelot and scores by Jule Styne and Meredith Willson.

[6:26] David Armstrong: This absolutely put them on the map.

[6:29] David Armstrong: In partnership with Lee Adams and other collaborators, CHARLES STROUSE would go on to create 13 more Broadway musicals, including two more Best Musical Tony winners, Applause and Annie.

[6:41] David Armstrong: The book writer for the show was Michael Stewart.

[6:43] David Armstrong: He was both gay and Jewish.

[6:45] David Armstrong: He was born in New York City in 1924.

[6:48] David Armstrong: He told friends that he had decided to write for the theater at the age of 10 when he was taken by his family to see the Cole Porter musical Anything Goes.

[6:56] David Armstrong: After attending Queens College and the Yale School of Drama, he began contributing comedy sketches to several off-Broadway reviews during the early 1950s.

[7:06] David Armstrong: Following the success of Bye Bye Birdie, he would go on to write the book and sometimes the lyrics for 15 more Broadway musicals, including the long-running hits Carnival, Hello Dolly, I Love My Wife, Barnum, and 42nd Street.

[7:20] David Armstrong: Michael Stewart often complained that musical book writers were not accorded the same kind of appreciation as were composers and lyricists.

[7:27] ⚠ About 3 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[10:42] David Armstrong: Although I never had a chance to experience it on the stage, a shining example of Gower Champion's brilliant stagecraft is emblazoned from childhood in my memory from a photo on the original cast album of Bye Bye Birdie. It demonstrated Champion's ingenious solution to the problem of how to put all of the teenagers of Sweet Apple, Ohio, who story-wise are all in separate locations. How do you then put them all on stage at the same time and still achieve the impact of a chorus? The solution he came up with in collaboration with scenic designer Robert Randolph was, of course, that unforgettable Mondrian-inspired jungle gym unit that helped turn STROUSE and Adams' delightful song "The Telephone Hour" into a showstopping production number.

[12:20] David Armstrong: I'm delighted to report that a brand new production of Bye Bye Birdie will open on June 10th at the Fifth Avenue Theater in Seattle, where it will play through June 29. Don't go away. Broadway Nation will be back right after this quick break.

[12:43] ♪ Musical number ♪

[14:00] David Armstrong: For over one has someone and a place to go. It was based on Clifford Odets' acclaimed 1937 play of the same name, which was about a young Italian American violinist who gets pulled into the world of championship boxing. For the musical, the original depression era immigrant class struggle themed story was updated and reset to the then present day, with the story reworked to reflect the racial equity and civil rights issues of the nineteen sixties.

[15:56] David Armstrong: Including an interracial love story that prompted frequent death threats and bomb scares throughout the musical's run. The show encountered numerous difficulties and setbacks during its long development process and pre-Broadway tour. Odets, who wrote the first drafts of the musical's book himself, died of cancer just before the show premiered in Philadelphia, and playwright William Gibson, who Odets had mentored, was brought in to complete the book. The original director Peter Coe, who had triumphed the previous year with Oliver, clashed with both Davis and Gibson and was replaced by Arthur Penn. Strouse and Adams' impressive contemporary, wide-ranging score is arguably their best work, even if some of the songs did not ultimately fit into the show's constantly changing storyline.

Davis appeared in 11 of Golden Boy's 17 musical numbers, which at Davis's urging did not shy away from including biting satirical and even confrontational social commentary regarding America's systematic racism and injustice.

[17:51] David Armstrong: Davis was paid $20,000 a week, which at that time made him the highest paid performer in Broadway history, and his high octane non-stop performance dominated the show. As one critic noted, he was quote given a chance to do everything but play the tuba. He dances, sings, and acts brilliantly.

[18:10] ♪ Musical number ♪

[18:48] David Armstrong: You nitwit.

[19:01] David Armstrong: Sing a little louder.

[19:15] David Armstrong: But lost all of them to Fiddler on the Roof. Golden Boy did make history, however, by becoming the first musical to run for more than 500 performances and not pay back its investment. This reflected the challenging, changing economics of Broadway in the final decade of the Golden Age. In 1968, Davis starred in a West End production of Golden Boy at the London Palladium, where the musical was much more critically acclaimed, and its originally scheduled engagement had to be extended for an additional six weeks.

[20:37] David Armstrong: With a book by Comden and Green based on the classic film All About Eve.

[20:57] David Armstrong: Applause featured actor Lee Roy Reams as Dwayne, the gay best friend, hairdresser, and confidant of Broadway star Margot Channing, played in the musical by Lauren Bacall. And most importantly, it was included in a very popular mainstream, Tony-winning, big transgressive lady musical. The authors of Applause boldly had the gay character take the star out for a night on the town to a gay bar in Greenwich Village. On episodes 40, 41, and 42, I had the great pleasure of interviewing Lee Roy Reams regarding his amazing 50-year career on Broadway. He started out as a sensational dancer on Broadway and in the film of Sweet Charity, on countless television variety shows, and backing up stars such as Juliet Prouse in Las Vegas. His first principal role was as Will Parker in the Lincoln Center revival of Oklahoma, which eventually led to his historic groundbreaking role in Applause.

[21:59] David Armstrong: Let's jump to Applause, 1970. And again, I assume this is part of your mission now to play roles.

[22:06] Lee Roy Reams: Yes.

[22:07] David Armstrong: And this turns out to be a significant one for you.

[22:10] Lee Roy Reams: Yes.

[22:10] David Armstrong: Tell us about how that came about. What was your process of getting into that show?

[22:15] Lee Roy Reams: Well, I had an agent by that time. And of course, the role was a singer dancer, and we knew that it was a reinterpretation of Thelma Ritter from the movie, and he was going to be a gay hairdresser, which now seems so calm, but back then it was a big deal. And as a matter of fact, my agent warned me and said, I don't know whether you should be playing a gay character. But I didn't even think about it, David. First of all, I am gay. I'm very proud and secure about that. So I thought, well, why shouldn't I be playing a gay hairdresser? And I wouldn't play him stereotypically. I wouldn't want to do that. And it wasn't what Ron Field wanted either. They wanted him to be a real person, you know. And, of course, he had to have a bit of a flair.

So with the audition, my agents said, they liked you very much. I think they're gonna make an offer. Well, they didn't. Ron hired Garrett Lewis instead, who's a tall, good-looking dancer from California who is like a leading man looking guy. And I was so depressed that I lost the part. And Juliet asked me to do her act again. It was the third time, and I was going back to Covington to spend Thanksgiving with my family, and I was gonna go to California, and I was very depressed. And I was in a relationship with Bob Donahoe, then who became my husband when we could legally do it. So I'd I was with him for 50 years. And he's now gone, unfortunately, but you know, we had a great time. And so when I got back, Juliet's manager called me and said, Julie, I want you to come out earlier.

And I didn't want to do it. I wanted to spend Thanksgiving with my family, but I had a Victoria Page moment from the red shoes. It's like the shoes just stopped. So I said, I don't want to do the job. And he said, Well, you have to call Juliet. I'm not gonna get him. And I called Juliet, and I was so sorry. I said, Julia, please forgive me, you know how much I love you, but I can't go back again. I can't go back. I have to return to New York. I just have to go back. And I did. I went back to New York and again, back on television, dancing in the chorus after doing Will Parker. I had to swallow my pride and very depressed. And that New Year's Eve, Bob got a big bottle of champagne for us, and we made a toast, and I said, you know, that part should have been mine.

I should have played that part. He said, Well, there'll be other parts, and happy new year. The next day the phone rings, they fired Garrett Lewis. And I had to come in, and I mean, they were almost into run-throughs.

[24:28] David Armstrong: Wow.

[24:29] Lee Roy Reams: So I had to really learn everything quickly. And so they threw a script at me, and Ron said, I'm so sorry, and all of that. But anyway, I'm a professional. And so he said, now in the first scene, you come in and it's backstage, and you go in and you go over and you stand at the end of the state by where the closet is. You go over there, stand by the closet. Said, okay. I said, well, when I come in, since they don't know who I am, can I carry a fall and be brushing it? And I was introduced to Lauren Bacall. I said, and Miss Bacall, I and she said, my friends call me Betty. And I said, Betty. And she said, that's better. I said, I won't touch your hair, but at least I'll prim so they'll know that I'm the hairdresser, you know, because that would establish my character.

And Ron said, okay, whatever, just do it and go over and stand by the closet. So they start the scene. The scene's going on and on and on, and they're stopping and starting. And finally, I raised my hand. I said, excuse me, when does this character get out of the closet? Well, Lauren Bacall laughed. She threw her head back, and that was the beginning of a beautiful friendship. From that moment on, I can't explain it to you, David. We were like that. We started hanging out together. When we got out of town, I went to dinner with her. We became the characters off stage that we were on. And that became a friendship for my life. I always arrived at the theater, went in to see her first, and then I would get dressed, and then I would always go in at the end of the show to be with her because we would usually do things. So after the show, I would come down to her dressing room and I would walk her to the limo, and of course, she would drop me off too. So I got limousine service too. But that's how it all began.

[27:03] ♪ Musical number: "But Alive" — performed by Lee Roy Reams ♪

[27:05] David Armstrong: So I have a question. You're playing this gay character. It's a year after Stonewall. Were you aware? Was Ron Field aware? Were the creators of the show aware that they were making a statement that they were doing something bold? That you're in essence a gay rights pioneer. Did you had any sense of that at the time?

[27:20] Lee Roy Reams: Not to the degree that it became. But yeah, they knew, and it was Comden and Green's idea, because they wrote the book to take the Thelma Ritter character and make him a hairdresser.

[27:30] David Armstrong: What the modern version of that character would be.

[27:32] Lee Roy Reams: That's right. That's right. Because a lot of stars, the hairdresser became like that person. And I was warned. They said you're gonna get stereotyped. But I didn't even think about it twice, David, because I was only concerned about number one having a role, and number two, being with Lauren Bacall and Comden and Green, CHARLES STROUSE, Lee Adams.

[27:52] Lee Roy Reams: Why wouldn't I want to be in that company? And I just thought of it as an actor. You know, I'm gonna play a character, and I'm not a hairdresser, and we didn't want him to be portrayed with that stereotypical swishy thing. We wanted him to be a real person, and why shouldn't I play them? As a matter of fact, the person that I chose to use as my image for that character was a hairdresser that was on Oklahoma at the time, his name was John Qualia. And we became friendly. So that's who I based my character on. And actually, Tommy Toon in his book says he was the first person to play the gay character in Sison Natsu. Actually, Renee Arbujinois played a gay character in Coco and referred to his boyfriend or whatever, but it wasn't as specific as Applause.

I now have that title as being the first openly gay character in. And the big line was Margot Channing says to Dwayne Fox, "Duane, how would you like to take two lonely ladies out on the town tonight?" And he said, "Well, I can't, I've got a date." And she says, "Bring him along." Now, that was rather tame to us and funny and subtle. But when we were out of town in Baltimore, and when we said that line, "Bring him along," there was like a gasp in the audience. And then we go to the gay bar. She's here in God. I can't receive it. She's here. Now that's the first time a gay bar was ever on a stage as far as I knew. And the audience was just like this. And when we entered the bar, it was all in pantomime.

And I come on with Eve and Margot, and my boyfriend comes up to me and kisses me like in the mouth. Well, we come in and we go, the audience went, "Woo!" Like this. Wow. And then, of course, the joke was, and then I introduce Margo in Panamime, and of course, he puts out his hand to Margot Channing. He kisses me, but that's the joke, right? Yeah. Well, honey, from that point on, the audience didn't laugh very much. And the next day we go into rehearsal, and Ron said, "Leroy, I said, I know, cut the kiss." So then what we did, we walked in and I would hug him, and then you know, he would extend his hand to Margot. But it was a thing back then. We didn't think of it that way because we're New Yorkers and all of that.

Show business. But yeah, it did have an effect. But in contrast to that, David, what has happened? A lot of gay men who were younger, that was a huge thing in their lives. And I have received this over and over again. Guys coming up to me saying, "When I was young and I saw you in that show, you don't know what an effect that had on me." Just see a gay man had substance and this and that. They said you were a huge image for us. And I never thought of it that way, but it's true. Absolutely. That same reaction that you're getting from that audience, you're having the equal reaction from young gay men and not so young gay men all across the country eventually when the show goes on tour because of this part that you helped to create.

[31:03] David Armstrong: And I feel brilliant!

[31:05] Lee Roy Reams: Yeah! That's it!

[31:06] David Armstrong: Ali!

[31:11] Lee Roy Reams: Margo!

[31:17] David Armstrong: Margo!

[31:20] Lee Roy Reams: Applause became the biggest hit of the season, winning four 1970 Tony Awards, including Best Musical, Best Leading Actress in a Musical for Lauren Bacall, and two for the spectacular work of its queer director and choreographer Ron Field. In 1977, CHARLES STROUSE achieved a third Tony Award-winning best musical hit with the musical Annie, which I talked about on episode 24, the second of two episodes that focus on the so-called nostalgia craze of the 1970s and 80s, when starting with No No Nanette, an unlikely stream of hit revivals of musicals from the Silver Age and reviews featuring songs from the 1920s and 30s triumphed on Broadway. They had created a brand new, entirely captivating, traditional golden age type musical comedy at a time when they were very much considered to be dead.

Annie ran 2,377 performances. The show's three Jewish authors are composer CHARLES STROUSE, whose music was a very savvy mix of 1970s pop and traditional show tunes. The lyricist was Martin Sharnon, who had started his career as one of the Jets in Westside's Story, and the book writer was Thomas Meehan, who said he saw Annie as quote, a metaphorical figure standing for innate decency, courage, and optimism in the face of hard times, pessimism, and despair.

[33:39] Lee Roy Reams: The sun'll come out tomorrow.

[33:43] David Armstrong: Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow they'll be quiet, little girl.

[33:50] Lee Roy Reams: No, Harold!

[33:51] David Armstrong: Go ahead, Annie.

[33:52] Lee Roy Reams: It's still a free country.

[33:54] David Armstrong: Like all life force characters, Annie transforms the world around her by spreading joy and progressive values to everyone she encounters. In this case, in a plot thread that could not be more timely, conservative Republican millionaire Daddy Warbucks discovers the something that was missing from his life. The life-changing power of love and of caring about someone other than himself. And at the climax of the show, Annie inspires FDR and his cabinet to create the New Deal.

[34:23] Lee Roy Reams: And Daddy Warbuck sings along.

[34:33] David Armstrong: Harold Hickies, stand up and sing.

[34:37] Lee Roy Reams: What?

[34:38] David Armstrong: Sing!

[34:38] Lee Roy Reams: The sun will come out.

[34:40] David Armstrong: Tomorrow.

[34:41] Lee Roy Reams: Better bottom dollar that tomorrow there'll be some peggings.

[34:48] David Armstrong: Just thinking out loud.

[34:49] Lee Roy Reams: Tomorrow, please obey the company and the sorrow.

[35:01] David Armstrong: I just take on my chin and rim and say, everyone, the public is too all about.

[35:08] Lee Roy Reams: Sing.

[35:09] David Armstrong: The sun come out tomorrow.

[35:12] Lee Roy Reams: So you gotta hang on till tomorrow.

[35:16] David Armstrong: Come one day tomorrow tomorrow.

[35:20] Lee Roy Reams: I love you tomorrow.

[35:23] David Armstrong: You're only a day away.

[35:29] Lee Roy Reams: Tomorrow, I love you, tomorrow.

[35:32] David Armstrong: You're only a day.

[35:48] Lee Roy Reams: Looking back, the music of CHARLES STROUSE has brought such joy to me in my life. First as a child, listening, singing and dancing along to those wonderful original cast albums, and then later as an adult, choreographing, directing, and producing various productions of those terrific shows, and now researching, teaching, and writing about CHARLES STROUSE's one-of-a-kind contribution to the Broadway musical.

[36:50] Lee Roy Reams: After the nights of wanting you lying there loving you, hating you.

[37:02] Lee Roy Reams: Tonight I'm touching you, holding you.

[37:08] Lee Roy Reams: Well, you're gonna see we'll make out somehow.

[37:18] Lee Roy Reams: Here's my girl and me can't hurt us now.

[37:31] Lee Roy Reams: We're gonna have it all.

[37:52] Lee Roy Reams: So great for us.

[37:54] Lee Roy Reams: Here's our chance it's not too late for us.

[37:59] Lee Roy Reams: Grab it fast or life.

[38:10] David Armstrong: If you love this podcast and want to delve even deeper into the world of Broadway musicals, I invite you to become a patron of Broadway Nation. For as little as seven dollars a month, you can receive exclusive access to never before heard unedited versions of many of the interviews featured on this podcast. I often record twice as much conversation as ends up in the edited public episodes. And you also have the exclusive opportunity to hear additional in-depth conversations with my frequent co-host Albert Evans. And all patrons will receive special on-air shout-outs and acknowledgments of your vital support. To join, simply go to Broadway Nation Podcast dot supercast dot tech. That's all one word Broadway Nation podcast dot S-U-P-R-C-A-S-T. Tech.

Or simply click the link in the show notes to this episode. Broadway Nation is written and produced by me, David Armstrong. Special thanks to pals Mox for his help with editing this episode and to the entire team at the Broadway Podcast Network.

[39:45] Lee Roy Reams: And here I am scared again real again I want to be with you stay with you with you every day with you Ron be so good to you.

[40:12] Lee Roy Reams: With you all I still can be live let's how it's gonna be my loving girl, make way for us.

[40:45] Lee Roy Reams: It's a sweet and gone day for us.

[40:52] Lee Roy Reams: Now the music starts to bless.