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[0:15] David Armstrong: Welcome to another episode of Broadway Nation, the podcast that tells the remarkable story of how immigrants, Jews, queers, African Americans, and other outcasts invented the Broadway musical and how they changed America in the process. I'm David Armstrong, and I call this episode Further Scandals of George White. This is the second half of my conversation with Gary Flannery about the life and career of Broadway dancer, director, choreographer, writer, and producer George White. Between 1919 and 1939, George White produced 19 Broadway musicals, including 13 editions of his own lavish and legendary revue, The George White Scandals. In part one, Gary shared with us the story of George White's unlikely rise from the slums of New York's Lower East Side to his first triumphs on Broadway.

And Gary also began making his very persuasive case that George White is the most underrated and neglected genius in the history of the Broadway musical, whom we should consider to be of equal or even greater significance than Ziegfeld, Cohan, the Shubert brothers, and all of the other greatest showmen in Broadway history. If you missed part one, you may want to listen to that episode before embarking on this one. As we ended part one, George had just opened the George White Scandals of 1922, directed and staged by George White, costumes by Erte, and starring George White, W.C. Fields, Paul Whiteman, and his orchestra, performing the music and lyrics of George Gershwin and Buddy De Sylva. Here we go.

[2:01] Gary Flannery: Meanwhile, George White decides to produce Run and Wild, the second black musical on Broadway, in 1923, mainly because he knows these guys up in Harlem that have put this dance together and this music that is going to revolutionize the world. And now we're talking about 1923, creating the American jazz age. They put the Charleston into this show, and it becomes the success of the world. And George White to his dying day said, I introduced the Charleston to the world, which is absolutely correct. He didn't invent it. No one knows who invented it. It came from the South, came into Harlem, but he introduced it. And by this point, he and Jolson have teamed up and they're putting money into all kinds of shows.

By 1926, George White had money in eight or ten musicals on Broadway, including his own. And he has bought half of Park Avenue, and he is making $750,000 a day, net profit on rentals that he has on Park Avenue. To the point that there's this article, and I think I told you there's like 88,000 articles in the New York Times on George White. So now here's a page two article about 1926 saying George White loves West Palm Beach. And so he decides to call a realtor in West Palm Beach to see if there's any canal properties for sale. So the guy comes back and says, Well, yeah, we have a place for sale. It's a million five, a million five hundred thousand dollars, nineteen twenty-six. It's a beautiful mansion right on the water.

And George White says, fine, I'll wire you down the money immediately. Sight unseen. He's gonna wire a million and a half dollars down. This is the kind of character this guy was, and the power and the money that he had at this point was just unbelievable. And then this is where he wins Dillingham's Rolls Royce, no less. There was this bet that went on. He wins Dillingham's brand new Rolls Royce and then parks it in front of the Apollo Theater on 42nd Street every night with all these articles and everything on it about how he won this Rolls Royce from Dillingham. So, in a way, it's a publicity stunt as well. He turns it into a publicity stunt. Completely. Although he didn't need it because the show had Harry Richman and it was incredible show.

[5:06] David Armstrong: Which edition is this?

[5:08] Gary Flannery: This is 1926. So what happens is he loses Gershwin in 25, and he knows he has to go somehow to replace George Gershwin. So he hires not one but two other songwriters, Ray Henderson and Lou Brown. He already still has DeSylva there under contract. So he puts DeSylva, Brown, and Henderson together. Completely. And because DeSylva's there already, his name got to go first. So he puts the three of them together, and the first song they work on is The Birth of the Blues. Now they're starting rehearsals and everything, and they go up to George White, the three of them, and threaten that they're going to all leave if he doesn't hire Harry Richman to come in and sing these songs and do the show.

[5:52] David Armstrong: And who's Harry Richman?

[5:53] Gary Flannery: Harry Richman at this point is one of the New York finest characters. I mean he was a self-made multi-millionaire who started in vaudeville and ended up opening up his own club in New York City and was very, very successful with all of that. He's what I call one of the stars of the other Broadway, which is this nightclub world that's happening at the same time, especially in the 20s. Right, right. He's a tremendous talented singer and songwriter as well. Yeah, but mainly his performance and his singing was fantastic. These guys, they knew and they wanted him. George White had not hired Richmond in 1920. So Richmond remembered that, and George White went to him to try to talk him to coming into the scandal show in 1926.

And Richmond said, You're out of your mind. I could care less. I'm not doing your friggin' show for nothing. George White gets on his hands and knees and begs him, and then that changes it. And George was not beyond it. You think Ziegfeld would have gone on his hands and knees and begged Harry Richman to come into the show? No. So Harry Richmond decides to do the show, but he tells George White that he's not signing any contract. And so Richmond came into the show and never signed a single contract. He said, If and when I decide to leave, I'm just going to leave. He gets to sing The Birth of the Blues.

[7:14] ♪ Musical number: "The Birth of the Blues" — performed by Harry Richman ♪

[8:23] Gary Flannery: Five major hits in the show that year, which is why George White won Dillingham's Rolls Royce. And the show is just huge, humongous. To the point that Ed Sullivan, who was writing for the New York Daily News at the time, said that this was one of the most incredible shows that had ever been put on in the history of the world. And that nobody will ever put on anything like this on stage again. The Erte sets in costume, which is now we have the birth of the blues number with the Erte Angels and things. And Sullivan said people were gasping in their seats. They couldn't believe what they were seeing.

[8:58] David Armstrong: And who are the other stars of this edition?

[9:01] Gary Flannery: Well, the Howard Brothers are there. Anne Pennington, the McCarthy sisters.

[9:06] David Armstrong: Is he still performing himself?

[9:07] Gary Flannery: Oh, yeah. So if and when you went to a George White show in the 20s, even into the 30s, the first thing you're going to do is probably see him in the box office collecting all of his money. Making sure that everything's done the way he wants it. Right. And there's funny things in the movie, you know, one of the George White scandal movies that he puts in about somebody coming up, and he's like, No, we're sold out tonight. You know, sorry, there's no tickets available. And the guy says, Well, I know George White, and you better find me some tickets and stuff. And White looks at him and says, like, you're not getting any tickets, and I'm George White, kind of thing. The same year in 26, opening night, they decide to charge $55 a ticket for opening night for every seat in the theater.

They sold out totally. $55 in 1926 would be $898 today. So $900 is what they were charging for tickets. Sold out. People complain about the music man today, but basically he's doing it then in 1926. They knew that what they were coming to was going to be extraordinary. And on that opening night in 26, George White and Lou Brown have a knockdown drag out fist fight out in the lobby as the people are coming in.

[10:22] David Armstrong: Over what?

[10:23] Gary Flannery: Who knows? Something just wild going on every day. George White had something going on in New York Times. So now, of course, we go into the depression in 29. Which obviously makes things so much harder for everybody on Broadway. Except for George White, because he has no money in the banks or in the stocks. Wow. Under his mattress. Hidden in the L tracks. In the L tracks. Outside, like he's found a place to stash it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wow. Yeah. And then he'd go and sneak the money back out and then go out to the racetrack, and he'd bet a hundred thousand dollars on a horse to win. He'd lose it all, and then he'd have to come back and borrow like 50,000 or 100,000 from Jolson in order to pay the cast of the shows that week.

Just wild. Then we get to 31. So now, even in the Broadway books and stuff, the 31 show is known as one of the greatest Broadway shows in history. So you have everyone from Ray Bolger, the Howard Brothers, Ethel Merman. And that is a funny story, too, because now you know George White went to Atlantic City every year to open the show.

[11:33] David Armstrong: For the tryout for the out-of-town tryout.

[11:34] Gary Flannery: Yeah. So he's there and he brings in this girl from Europe. She was a little flirt and gave George White all this trouble right away. He had her doing the female lead and he fired her. And so now he gets in his limo and goes into New York City where he knows there's this woman that has this unbelievable voice. And he goes to her office, pulls her out from her chair, out into the hallway, and says, Hit it.

[12:05] David Armstrong: She's still working as a secretary at this point.

[12:07] Gary Flannery: Yeah, she had done Girl Crazy already. And so she had to my name, but you know, they just went back to work. So yeah, so he pulls her out, she hits like some kind of notes, and he says, That's it. We have no time. Just get your handbag and get in the car. So she gets in the car, goes to Atlantic City. The guys are, you know, now they've lost DeSylva because he's going into Hollywood. And so now you just have Henderson and Brown. And they're working feverishly on this music. I have the original handwritten note by note on big musical paper from Ray Henderson of 31. They're trying to create this song, Life is Just a Bowl of, and Nuts is written first, and then other things are written around and scratched out, and then cherries is written over on the side. So I mean, they're creating this friggin' song on the spot. And Merman, of course, introduces that song.

[12:42] ♪ Musical number: "Life is Just a Bowl of Cherries" — performed by Ethel Merman ♪

[13:59] David Armstrong: Don't go away. Broadway Nation will be right back.

[14:04] Gary Flannery: And George White was so wonderful to them. He was always like a father to all of these people. Except to Rudy Vallee. He and Rudy did not get along very well together. Everyone from Ethel to Alice Faye to Ann Miller, all of them say what a kind and funny and caring guy this was. Burt Lahr himself in Notes on the Cowardly Lion says that yeah, he worked for the great Ziegfeld, and he always had to call Mr. Ziegfeld, and he was a piece of trash. And he worked for George White, and he called him Georgie, and they would sit around after the show and smoke cigars and tell jokes all night. He was a small saint and a god, I mean, to these people to Ann Miller. He found Ann Miller in some little nightclub in LA and said, That's it, honey, you're coming with me in 1939 and took her and her mother to Broadway, put them up at the Pierre Hotel in a suite, and used to bring them food and corsages every night and take her to the theater every night.

[15:05] Gary Flannery: I interviewed her, and she said he was like a father to her that she never had. And he was one of the gang, and they loved him for it, and he cared about them. He gave them tremendous salaries; all of them were making more than anyone else in any other shows. He spent more money on the costumes and sets, especially the Airtake stuff. My God. All of the sets were silk and satin and leather. He had black patent leather that he used in these scenes and very metallic kinds of things too. The birth of the blues number had all the girls in their air take, blue angels descending onto the stairway with Anne Pennington in the middle, and there was this phosphorescent glow through all of their wings and everything and on the stage.

And Ed Sullivan said people just lost it. They'd just never seen anything like it. George spent a lot of money on those shows. Tremendous. Much more than Ziegfeld or anyone else ever spent on their shows. He made more money through the 31 show and into the 30s, which completely ruined and caused Ziegfeld's death. And George just laughed at it all. And he was going gung ho, you know, beginning of the 30s. He's not only doing the scandals, he's doing George White's melody, George White's casino show, this show, that show, George White's varieties. He's putting all sorts of shows together. He's bringing in opera stars, Gene Aubert from Europe to perform with, you know, the Metropolitan Opera star, Robert Merrill. They star in this George White's melody show, and he's the first one who ever presented that kind of talent on Broadway.

[16:42] David Armstrong: And he did book shows as well, didn't he?

[16:44] Gary Flannery: He produced all sorts of book shows, including Manhattan Mary and also Flying High, and then numerous shows that he had money into, but he never claimed, you know, he was silent completely. And so he's just rolling on. And I have this fabulous picture. It's in 1926, so that was quite a year for him. It's a picture of Joseph Schenk, who is now creating MGM, sitting at his office in Hollywood, and he has Irving Berlin on one side and George White standing on the other side. And he is offering these two to put together the very first all-talking musical production. George White to help direct, write, and stage the show, and Berlin to write all the music. George White declines; he's too busy. He didn't realize at the time, you know, what Hollywood was going to do even at that point. Eventually, he does do some work in Hollywood, right?

[17:38] David Armstrong: And there are two Scandals movies, aren't there?

[17:43] Gary Flannery: Well, there eventually became three, because then they did another one in '45. They did the '34 and the '35 for Shank's 20th Century Fox. And so he did finally work with Shank and put these big-budget musicals together. They were pretty interesting. There's some neat stuff here and there. How representative do you think they are of the George White Scandals? Obviously, they have stories that tie it together the way all those movies had to do. But when we see those musical numbers and see the presentations, do you think that would give us an idea of what the George White Scandals were like on stage?

[18:17] Gary Flannery: Absolutely. You know, especially as they progressed into the later 20s and 30s. You know, the earlier work was much more basic, even though it had Airtake sets and costumes. So there was a lot of spectacle. But I think the staging that we're seeing, I just sold this photograph of George White sitting up on one of these moving cameras, you know, filming the '34 Scandals and directing. And he's got Roddy Valley and Alice Faye down on the floor with all the girls up on the stairway circling them and stuff. And it's a fabulous, fabulous photo. And it's George White just putting together the number as he knew. Now Bill Bojangles Robinson is assisting him with choreography. Wow. Uncredited. He knew Robinson for a long time.

And then Robinson really helped with the '35 movie, and they brought in this unknown talent, Eleanor Powell, and the rest is history there. Her Broadway and her Hollywood debut in George White Scandals. Or this picture of George White and Eleanor Powell between him and Bojangles. And they're walking on the Hollywood lot arm in arm. I want to go back and watch those movies now. I've seen both of those movies, but it's been a long time. There's a third one though. And he's still around in the 40s to do that thing.

[19:33] David Armstrong: Correct. He helped produce that one as well. And clearly he's still a big enough name in the 1940s to make them want to make a movie called The George White Scandals.

[19:43] Gary Flannery: Yes, exactly. And in '46, they do the Ziegfeld Follies, one of the best films ever made. And he had a whole lot of money in that movie.

[19:52] David Armstrong: In the Ziegfeld Follies.

[19:53] Gary Flannery: Yeah. And he had no animosity towards Ziegfeld necessarily, even into the 30s when Billy Burke was struggling trying to keep the Follies alive. George White is there with all kinds of money helping her. And this is what I collected. This is what I had to prove. Because people have no idea. He did nothing.

[20:17] David Armstrong: So let's actually go to that subject now. How is it that you know so much about George White? How did that come to be?

[20:24] Gary Flannery: 35 years basically of research and studying and gathering materials. And I think I told you it started with my directing Tin Types in Chicago, and I was doing some research, and I kept coming across this name. And it's like, who is this guy? You know, discovered George Gershwin and Miller, Eleanor Powell, and Ethel Merman. I mean, what the heck? And so what happens is he's too busy just doing his thing to worry about who's recording history or doing whatever. He could have cared less. You know, he never marries, so there's no children, there's no estate, you know, remembering and gathering all of this information and materials of him. And then, of course, the war came along and just wiped out everything, all of them.

Besides the fact that in the 30s and even in those late 20s, because of White's multi-millionaire status, Ziegfeld, Dillingham, and the Schuberts colluded together and wrote him out of history. You know, even in some of the '38 Ziegfeld books, '38 and counting, there's no mentions of George White's name being in the show in the teens. They wrote him out of the Follies, even. And so it was pretty interesting, pretty intense. And as I said, George just laughed at all. He really didn't even care. He was a self-made man and he knew what he'd done, and he knew what he was trying to continue to do. And so he ran the Scandals all the way through the 40s and 50s, you know, on tours and things. I have programs from '51 or '52 or something. This is continuing into the 50s.

[22:00] David Armstrong: Right. Around the country, but not on Broadway.

[22:01] Gary Flannery: Not on Broadway. And so you have Helman Morgan going out on tour with the Scandals through the early 40s when she keels over and drops dead in the middle of a Scandals show in 1942. But this you'll find very interesting. George White's great oh, Gay White Way, the entire production staged by George White. You see the big sign on Broadway?

[22:21] David Armstrong: Yeah, yeah.

[22:22] Gary Flannery: Well, this was in the Palais Royale, 1941. He and the mob open up George White's Gay White Way in what was the Palais Royale, which then became the downtown Cotton Club. It also ran as the Hollywood review with Rudy Valley for a while, but then George White takes it on in '41, and it becomes the largest, most successful nightclub in the world. And there's his name plastered right out on Broadway on that corner of that building. Right there above where the TKTS booth is today.

[22:55] David Armstrong: Yeah, exactly. He was a dancer, you know, he was a hoofer that made these incredible things happen. And yet nobody knows about it. And I just find that not right. And so I just decided that I would find out everything and anything I could about this guy. And it just kept getting more and more fascinating as I'm going along. I mean, it's just absolutely incredible. He runs that nightclub for one year. And then obviously he wasn't being nice to the right people in New York at the time. And so he loses it, and they bring in Mr. Waters and open it up as the Latin Quarter one year later.

[23:33] Gary Flannery: So he basically establishes what becomes the Latin Quarter.

[23:36] David Armstrong: Correct.

[23:36] Gary Flannery: Which then has Airtake designing the sets and costumes and stuff for Lou Walters. It's just fascinating. One thing after another after another after another. I mean, in the early 50s, okay, this guy who never went to school a day in his life is now translating German novels into off-Broadway plays.

[23:57] David Armstrong: That's very strange.

[23:59] Gary Flannery: And won drama awards for several of them. This is George White. Still just amazing. He lives into the 60s, is that correct?

[24:07] David Armstrong: He lives to 1968. He dies at 78 years old. His best friend, Paul Whiteman, dies the year before him. And George White at this point has no money. All the money's gone. He's living at the Beverly Hills Hotel in LA. Of course, you know, he ruled the place for so many years. And all of his clients and performers stayed there. So they gave him room and board at the hotel for many years as he lived his life out. He died of leukemia in the UCLA hospital. Never married, no kids.

[24:41] David Armstrong: Right. Who were the loves of his life?

[24:43] Gary Flannery: Anne Pennington. In 1919, on opening night of the Scandals on Broadway with Ann, he gets on his knee and asks her to marry him, and she declines, and they talk about it, and they decide, well, maybe they are too busy with their careers and everything to try to do this properly. So they just become lovers and leave it at that. And they stay a couple for quite a while. For quite a while, on and off again, as she went back to Ziegfeld, even and then would come back to George White's show. But George White had all kinds of flames through the years, and tall blonde usually was his choice.

[25:20] David Armstrong: How tall did he get to be when he was fully grown?

[25:23] Gary Flannery: Fully grown was five foot one.

[25:26] David Armstrong: It's so interesting. Like Cohan, like a lot of these self-made guys, they're often very short, which may be part of the drive that gets behind them.

[25:34] Gary Flannery: It's interesting. I didn't think of that before, but I think you're right. Maybe that gave them that little extra charge, you know. But George White was just totally amazing. At one point, as I've put together numbers, we're looking at basically a hundred million dollars that he had accumulated and spent over his career. And ended up with nothing. Nothing. But he said, you know, what the hell? He's lying in his deathbed, and he said the only thing he regretted was not having a family because he realized he missed that. But the money was he would have done it all the same. He would have just spent it all again. Can't take it with you.

[26:09] Gary Flannery: I could talk to you all day about this, and I know we'll do this again and have you back to talk about Helen Morgan and many other subjects along the way.

[26:18] David Armstrong: Well, this has been very exciting. As I said, my wife is the only one that listens to me. She's heard all these stories several times, so it's a passion. And him being a hoofer and just written out of history just gets my spine, you know, and my soul. And this guy deserves a better fate. So I want to do the movie. So talk about that. You've written a screenplay about him.

[26:40] Gary Flannery: Right. And I've had a chance to look at it, and just as the way you've been describing the story, it's a fascinating story.

[26:40] David Armstrong: It's a fascinating story, and of course, it's a first draft and it needs a lot of work. But you know, would have Gershwood music. I think I can guarantee several thousand people will hear your story. And maybe one of them out there will be sparked by the idea of we should make a movie about this guy.

[27:02] Gary Flannery: They only need one.

[27:03] David Armstrong: That's right.

[27:04] Gary Flannery: So yeah. My nickname again is the Great American Review. So that was gonna be the name of the book, but the screenplay is Stairway to Paradise.

[27:12] David Armstrong: That's a great title.

[27:13] Gary Flannery: Yeah. And a great song. And it's his.

[27:17] David Armstrong: So good to talk to you, Gary.

[27:18] Gary Flannery: All right, buddy. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

[27:21] ♪ Musical number: "Scandal Walk" — performed by Gary Flannery ♪

[28:24] David Armstrong: If you enjoy this podcast, I feel certain that you will also enjoy joining our Broadway Nation Facebook group, where you'll find daily postings of images, videos, articles, and links that relate to and enhance each and every episode of this podcast. Just Google Broadway Nation Facebook group and join the more than two thousand other fans of Broadway Nation. It's always fun, fascinating, and informative.

[28:49] ♪ Musical number: "Scandal Walk" — performed by Gary Flannery ♪

[29:02] David Armstrong: Broadway Nation is written and produced by me, David Armstrong. Special thanks to Pals Mox for his help with editing this episode. To KVSH 101.9, the voice of beautiful Vashon Island, Washington, and to the entire team at the Broadway Podcast Network.

[29:30] ♪ Musical number: "Scandal Walk" — performed by Gary Flannery ♪